Jun 16, 2021 Historic Preservation Commission

TO DISPENSE WITH THE READING OF THE MINUTES.

SO I'M GOING TO GO TO THE NEXT SIDE OF IT.

AND THEN WE HAVE A SPECIAL ITEMS. SO A KIND OF CALL FOR A MOTION

[3. Approval of Minutes of Previous Meeting(s)]

SO WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM.

AND THE NEXT

[2. Presentation of Certificate of Appreciation (Evans)]

ITEM ON JANUARY AGENDA IS THIS CERTIFICATE OF APPRECIATION HERE.

SO CHRISTIAN, IF YOU WILL COME UP HERE STEPPING UP, WE ARE STEPPING UP OUR GAME.

IT'S GOING TO LEAVE US UNFORTUNATELY.

AND WE'D LIKE TO GIVE HER THIS LITTLE BIT OF A CUP OF OUR APPRECIATION EARLY THERE.

NOW, ARE WE GOOD DOWN? YES, WE'RE GOOD.

NOW THERE'S A CERTIFICATE OF APPRECIATION FOR ALL THE WORKSHEETS DONE.

I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE WORK SHE DID WITH ME, UH, WITH GETTING THIS AWARD SYSTEM TOGETHER AND LOOKING UP STUFF AND US WORKING TOGETHER ON THAT USEFUL.

I, WELL, WE CALL HER BACK AND WE MIGHT, SHE MIGHT GO TO BE ON ONE OF THE COMMITTEES HERE JUST AS A COMMUNITY PERSON.

SO THERE'S A COMMITTEE, SHE HAS SOME INTERESTS.

SO AGAIN, SO SHE WON'T BE TOTALLY LEAVING US.

SHE WILL STILL BE HERE.

SO I'M, SO WE APPRECIATE EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE DONE FOR US.

IT'S BEEN A PRIVILEGE TO WORK WITH ALL OF YOU AND IN SERVING THE COMMUNITY WITH THE INTEGRITY FOR THEM, FOR THE DISTRICT, BECAUSE IT HELPS WITH THE STICK.

AND I THANK YOU VERY, VERY, VERY MUCH.

BYE .

LET'S SEE WHAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

[4A. Hearings: Introduction, Swearing-In, Summary of Process - Introduction of Hearings and Rules of Procedure - Swearing-In of Speakers - Summary of the Hearing Process]

SO LET ME DO THE INTRODUCTION HERE TO OUR ONE PERSON THAT WE HAD.

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HEARD MANY ? THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION IS A PUBLIC COMMISSION APPOINTED BY THE CITY OF CLEVELAND BOARD OF ALDERMAN.

IT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PRESERVING AND SAFEGUARD LEAVE.

ONE'S LOCALLY DESIGNATED IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, DOWNTOWN AND RIVERSIDE BASED UPON US DEPARTMENT OF MATERIAL STANDARDS, STATE STATUTES, CITY ORDINANCES, AND NEWBORNS, HISTORIC GUIDELINES.

TWO OF THE MAJOR TASKS OF THE HVC INCLUDE APPROVING APPLICATIONS FOR A CERTIFICATE.

AND WE'RE PART OF THE BUSINESS AND PREVENTING DEMOLITION OF HISTORIC STRUCTURES DUE TO NEGLECT THE HBC HALLS, A QUASI JUDICIAL HEARING ON AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

THE COMMISSION HERE IS SWORN TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY THE AFRICA BY PARTIES WHO RECEIVED NOTICE OF THE HEARING AND BY OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT EVIDENCE I'M NOT DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE APPLICATION.

THE COMMISSION CANNOT CONSIDER COMMENTS BASED ON PERSONAL LIFE TO DISLIKES HEARSAY, A PERSONAL OPINION THAT CANNOT BE DIRECTLY TO DEAL DIRECTLY RELATED TO SPECIFIC HISTORIC GUIDELINES.

LIKEWISE, COMMISSIONERS SHALL REFRAIN FROM STATING PERSONAL OPINION OR FROM A WHAT OR DISLIKED OR HEARSAY DURING THE HEARING.

THE COMMISSION'S DECISION ON AN APPLICATION IS BASED SOLELY ON THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT A HEARING THAT DIRECTLY RELATES TO THE STORE GUIDELINES.

CAN WE SWEAR IN A ONE PERSON WHO IS HERE, SHE'S A TROOPER.

YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, AND YOU'VE ALREADY SIGNED THE SQUARE SIGNAGE.

SO OUR PROCESS WILL GO, IS THIS, THE HVC ADMINISTRATOR PROVIDES AN OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION, THE APPLICANT, OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVE PRESENTS THE APPLICATION

[00:05:01]

PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVED NOTICE OF THE HEARING CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.

REBUTTAL IS ALLOWED BY THE APPLICANT AND BY PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVED NOTICE OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION AND WILL BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED, CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.

THE HBC ADMINISTRATOR PRESENTS THE STAFF'S FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS THE APPLICANT OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE FINAL COMMENTS ON THEIR APPLICATION.

COMMISSIONERS, DISCUSS THE EVIDENCE AND MAY ASK FOR CLARIFICATION FROM THE APPLICANT.

ARE THERE PRESENT? THE MOTION IS DISCUSSED BY THE COMMISSIONERS.

THE CHAIRMAN CALLS FOR A VOTE ON THE MOTION BY THE COMMISSION.

A COA CAN BE APPROVED, APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS ARE, AND WE HAVE ONE AFRICA TONIGHT AS THE BURN STREET APPLICATION HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.

THAT'S CORRECT.

[4B. 311 Bern St. – to include the installation of new, wood window blinds and new, wood, 4-foot-high fencing in the Primary AVC.]

THE THREE 11 BURN STREET, UM, APPLICANT, UH, SENT ME THIS AFTERNOON, UM, WRITTEN NOTIFICATION THAT THEY ARE WITHDRAWING THE APPLICATION.

OKAY, SO WE HAVE 8 0 8

[4C. 808 E. Front St. – to include the following changes to the approved CoA in all of the AVCs: change the foundation to a solid brick foundation with flood vents, add a third floor front balcony, increase the height of the side walls, remove the roof dormers, change single columns at the rear porches to triple columns.]

EACH MONTH STREET THROUGH THAT ONE.

HEY, THERE, LADIES FRONT STREET IS ALSO A LOT FIVE AT RIVER STATION.

APPLICANT IS RIVER STATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION AND THE AFRICANS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE IS GO ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN E L L C.

YOU CAN SEE HERE'S THE REST OF THE APPLICATION IS FULLY COMPLETED, INCLUDING THE BACKSIDE AND THE SIGNATURE AND DATE.

UH, AND THE AUTHORIZATION IS ACTUALLY ON, UM, PAGE FOLLOWING THESE DRAWINGS.

DRAWINGS OF WHAT THAT ENTAILS, BUT JUST SO YOU HAVE AN IDEA, UM, IT STARTS A LITTLE BIT BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE ON THE LEFT SIDE, FOLLOWS THE PROPERTY LINE, HAS A GATE, UH, IN FRONT OF THE FRONT STEPS AND THEN COMES BACK AROUND TO THE OTHER SIDE AND FINISHES ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE BEHIND A LITTLE BIT.

SEE, BEFORE NOW IT INCLUDES 8 0 8 SIGNED AND NOTARIZED.

ALL RIGHT, GO BACK TO THE DRAWINGS.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOT FIVE, WHICH IS THIS LOT HERE, WHICH IS THE, UH, UM, THE MIDDLE OF THE ROW ALONG WITH THAT HAS ITS EDGE FACING THE RIVER AND THE GREEN SPACE BETWEEN THE RIVER AND THE, UH, ALLEYWAY IN THE BACK.

AND THIS ALONG IS THIS ALONG HERE IS EAST FRONT STREET AND THE OTHER BLACK, UH, BUILDING FOR A PERCENT OF THE OTHER BUILDINGS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED.

AND THIS IS, UH, UH, A SKETCH ELEVATION.

AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE.

SO THE APPLICANTS PROVIDED THESE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE SITE.

SO THIS IS THE INTERSECTION OF QUEEN AND EAST FRONT STREET HERE.

AND THEN THE DRIVEWAY GOES AROUND THIS CORNER HERE.

AND THEN ALSO THIS IS A FEW DOWN QUEEN STREET TOWARDS THE RIVER AND HE'S FRONT STREET IS THE LEFT A LOT IS ACTUALLY OFF, OFF PICTURE HERE ON THE LEFT.

THIS GIVES YOU THE CONTEXT.

UH, AND THEN, UM, AS I POINTED OUT UP HERE, SORRY, THE DRIVEWAY, UM, CONTINUES TOWARDS THE RIVER AND THEN TAKES A LEFT-HAND TURN.

THAT'S WHAT THIS VERY HERE IS AFTER YOU'VE MADE THE LEFT-HAND TURN.

YOU SEE THAT SAME PUDDLE HERE, BUT NOW LOOKING BACK UP WEAN STREET, UH, THE, UH, THIS AREA IS THE FIRST LOT THAT WAS APPROVED, UM, UH, SOME MONTHS AGO, UH, FOR A NEW HOUSE THERE, UH, AND BE A LOT THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS OPEN AREA HERE.

SO THERE'S A SITE PLAN.

YOU WANT ME TO SAY, I PLAN ON NOT SHORT, BUT, UM, UH, I SHOULD ALSO MENTION THIS, THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY APPROVED.

UH, SO, UH, WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING AND APPROVING AGAIN TONIGHT ARE SOME REVISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE TO THE, TO THE STRUCTURE.

UH, SO ONE OF THE REVISIONS ON THE SITE PLAN IS INCLUSION OF A NEW FENCE AROUND THE FRONT YARD HERE, AND WE'LL SEE SOME, UH, ELEVATION

[00:10:01]

THAT WAS THE GROUP BEFORE WAS PREVIOUSLY.

OR NEVERMIND THE WHOLE THING.

THE WHOLE THING IS NEW AGAIN.

SO, YEAH.

UH, SO, UM, AND JUST TO REITERATE THEN, I GUESS, UH, WE HAVE A CONCRETE DRIVEWAY OUT THE BACK THAT DOES A FEED OUT TO THE ALLEYWAY ON THE BACKSIDE.

UM, ONE CHANGE HERE IS THE SIZE AND SCALE OF THE COLUMNS ON THE CORNER AND AGAINST THE BUILDING.

WE'LL SEE THAT IN A MINUTE AS WELL.

SO, UM, COMING BACK TO THIS, IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY OF THE SITE PLANNING ISSUES, SO THIS IS JUST THE FIRST FLOOR PLAN.

UM, AND WE CAN, AGAIN, REFER TO THAT IF NECESSARY, UH, SECOND FLOOR PLAN THIS OVER AND SEE THERE IS A COVERED PORCH ON THE SECOND FLOOR OR THE MAIN LIVING AREA.

AND THEN THE THIRD FLOOR, UH, ALSO HAS A COVERED PORCH, UM, OUT THE BACK AND ONE UP FRONT.

SO THERE YOU SEE THE LEFT IS THE ELEVATION, UH, QUITE A BIT LARGER HERE FOR YOU.

UH, I JUST MENTIONED THE UPSTAIRS THIRD FLOOR, UH, PORCH OR BALCONY.

UH, AND THEN, UM, IS THE ROOFING, IS THE ROOF CONFIGURATION THE SAME AS THE LAST TIME THE OVERALL SHAPE? THE FRONT PORCH AREA IS THE SAME.

THE DETAILING UP IN THE GABLE IS A BIT DIFFERENT.

WE KIND OF REDID THAT WITH SOME BRACKETS AND, UH, YOU KNOW, LEFT IT WITH A SHAKE SIDING.

THE CONFIGURATION OF THAT FRONT, UH, ROOF IS THE SAME.

IT JUST IS CONFORMED TO THAT NEW DESIGN.

SO IT'S GOT BOARD AND BAT AND IT'S GOT SOME BRACKETS IT'S GOT, UM, IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE CRAFTSMAN STYLE OTHER THAN BEFORE.

AND THAT, THAT FRONT PORCH AREA THERE IS THE, THE FEELING OF THAT PORCH IS UP AT THE BRACKET LINE.

SO YOU KIND OF FOLLOW IT UP.

SO THERE WOULD BE A BEAM, UH, KIND OF OUT TOWARDS THE FRONT OF THE PORCH, NEAR THE RAKE BOARDS.

AND THEN THESE BRACKETS ARE, UM, IN FRONT OF THAT BEAM.

AND THEN THIS PANELING IS, IS THAT, UH, ALSO WHERE THE BRACKETS ARE LOCATED, IF THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE BEAD BOARD IN THAT THE GABLE END OF THAT, UM, THAT'S SHAPED MORE THAN THAT.

AND THEN WHAT WE DID WAS WE INCREASED THE SIDE HEIGHT OF IT, OR BEFORE WE HAD, UH, WE WERE TRYING TO KEEP THE OVERALL HEIGHT, UM, DOWN, BUT IT'S STILL WITHIN IT'S WITHIN THE LAND USE ORDINANCE AND THE OWNER WANTING TO HAVE A FULL HEIGHT WALL ON THAT THIRD FLOOR AND NOT HAVE A HOUSE.

SO INSIDE THE ROOM, UH, IS THIS THE CEILING HEIGHT? THE DASH LINE.

SO INSIDE THESE WALLS GO RIGHT TO THE SEAT ON THE WALLS, GO TO THE CEILING AND THEN THE CEILING IS EITHER FLAT OR THEN PAINTED UP.

YEAH, I THINK WE'VE GOT THAT EIGHT AND THEN IT'LL EVOLVE A LITTLE BIT FROM THERE ON ME.

BUT AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE EIGHT FOOT WALLS, WHEREAS BEFORE IT WAS MORE LIKE SIX FEET OR FIVE FEET, IT WAS LIKE TWO OR THREE WASN'T IN THE ATTIC BEFORE.

THAT'S WHAT I MEAN.

SO THE, WE HAVE THE SIDEWALL AT TWO FEET AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THAT TRICK NEVER WORKS WELL.

I THOUGHT IT WORKS, BUT YOU KNOW, THEY WANTED A FULL FLOOR.

AS A FULL, WELL, I THINK YOU HAVE A FULL HEIGHT, UM, PORTRAIT.

I MEAN, I, I LIKED THE WAY IT TURNED OUT AND THEN WE, ON THE BACK, WE'VE DOUBLED UP THE COLUMNS TO JUST GIVE IT SOME MORE HEFT.

UM, AND JUST TO MAKE IT A BIT BEEFIER THAN IT WAS OKAY.

THEN GOING TO THE OTHER TWO ELEVATIONS.

SO THIS COULD BE THE OTHER SIDE AROUND AND ON THIS SIDE, NOW YOU HAVE MORE WINDOWS THAN YOU HAD BEFORE, BECAUSE BEFORE THIS GROUP, THIS ROOF LINE WAS ABOUT HALFWAY DOWN AND WE HAD TWO DORMERS ON THE OTHER SIDE

[00:15:03]

EXACTLY.

SO NOW IT IS FULL HEIGHT SO, UM, AND THEN THESE ARE THE DETAILS THAT WERE THERE BEFORE THEN REGARDING THE RAILING IRON RAILING FOR THE FRONT STEPS AND THE TRIM AROUND THE WINDOWS INTERIOR ELEVATIONS.

THIS IS YOUR FENCE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

UM, AND THIS SHOWS DIMENSION OF FOUR FEET FROM THE GROUND TO THE PEAK.

SO, UM, SPHERES HANGING OUT AS WELL AS THE POSTS.

AND THEN IT'S A, THESE ARE THREE INCH INTERVALS HERE.

AND THEN THE TRASH CORRAL, WHICH IS WHERE THE MECHANICAL UNITS WILL SIT ON TOP OF, UH, ALL OF THIS IS MADE OF WOOD.

UM, SO SAME AS BEFORE I BELIEVE.

AND, UH, I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT AT THIS POINT, UH, THE DRAWINGS, UM, INDICATE THAT THESE, UH, PICKUPS, AS SHE CALLS THEM ARE ALL PAINTED, BUT ALL OF THE WOOD HAS ALL OF THE WOOD HAS TO BE PAINTED OR OPAQUE, STAIN.

SO I THINK THAT'LL END UP BEING EITHER A, UM, CONDITION OR A VIOLATION.

SO THEN THERE'S REALLY TO DISCUSS THAT.

THEN THIS IS THE ZONING AND INSPECTIONS, UM, FROM, UH, WHERE THE, UH, LET'S SEE, OH, SORRY.

AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT THEN COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY AND FIVE.

THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR SAID IT MEETS THE ZONING CODE AND THE BUILDING INSPECTOR SAID THIS PROJECT BUILDING PERMIT PRICING.

AND SO WE'RE READY WITH OUR FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS WHENEVER YOU ARE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD ADD TO WHAT HE HAS PRESENTED? ALL RIGHT.

DO WE HAVE ANY CONFLICT OF INTEREST FROM ANYONE THERE ARE ANY ISSUES ON THE COMPLETE SET UP AGAIN.

ARE THERE, IS THERE ANY ISSUES ON THE APPLICATIONS COMPLETENESS? NO, THERE IS NO ONE ELSE HERE EXCEPT WHO YOU SEE IN THE MEETINGS.

SO THERE'S, THERE'S NO, UH, CITY, STATE, OR GOVERNMENT BODY, ANYBODY HERE AND BAM, YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? NO.

SO IS THAT YOUR FATHER? ALL RIGHT.

SO THIS IS FOR THE, UH, RIVERSIDE DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION AND GO OUR PROTECTION DESIGNS, UH, PROJECT FOR 8 0 8 EAST FRONT STREET, A VACANT LOT.

AND SO THERE IS NO, UH, HISTORIC DESCRIPTION, UH, AND WE, THE PROJECT IS TO INCLUDE CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW INFILL HOUSE.

SO STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES ARE APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION, UH, FOR DEVELOPMENT PATTERN, 2.1 0.1 2.1 0.3 OR DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1 0.1 THROUGH 3.1 0.5 FOR INFILL CONSTRUCTION, 3.4 0.1 THROUGH 3.4 0.4, THE FOUNDATION 4.1 0.3 AND 4.1 0.4, WALLS TRIM AND ORNAMENTATION 4.2 0.4 WINDOWS DOORS AND OPENINGS.

4.3 0.3 FOR ENTRANCES, 4.4 0.4, WHERE ROOFS 4.5 0.4 FOR DECKS AND PATIOS 4.6 0.2 FOR MASONRY 5.1 0.3, FIVE AND SIX FOR METALS, 5.3 0.3 AND 5.3 0.4 FOR PAINT, 5.4 0.23, FOUR, AND SIX.

THE STATEMENTS ARE REASON BASED ON THE INFORMATION OBTAINED IN THE APPLICATION.

AND STAFF'S JUDGMENT ARE ONE.

THE PROJECT IS LOCATED IN THE NARROW STITCH DEVELOPMENT PATTERN TO THE PROPOSAL IS AN INFILL PROJECT, THREE OF THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE GUIDELINES FOR THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.

[00:20:01]

THE PROJECT IS NOT IN CONGRUENT WITH THE GUIDELINES.

SO STAFF RECOMMENDS THE COMMISSION APPROVE THIS APPLICATION FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW BUILDING MEMBERS.

I DO NOT RECALL HER WORKING ON APPROVING THE FRIEND THAT'S LIKE THAT IN THE PRIMARY AREA, IN THAT DEVELOPMENT, SINCE THAT DEVELOPMENT IS WHAT, HOW DO YOU LABEL IT THICK IN THERE? SO EVERY FENCE THAT GOES IN, WHAT HAVE YOU HAD A WOODEN SLAT FENCE HERE, A METAL BENCH HERE, A BRICK IT'S GONNA LOOK REALLY, REALLY CHOPPY.

AND HAVE WE DONE? HAVE WE DEALT WITH THAT? IT'S, IT'S ALMOST A PART OF LANDSCAPING, BUT I WONDER IF WE DEALT WITH THE FENCE PART BECAUSE THEY'RE PUTTING THIS OUT ON THE FENCE AND THEY PRIMARY AREA, I DON'T RECALL PROVING OUT BY THE GUIDELINES.

ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT ELEVATION VIEW WHERE, WHERE THEY WANT TO PUT THE SHOW? WE UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR RAILINGS AND THESE HOUSES ARE, WHAT FUCK FEET APART.

YES THEY ARE.

AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A DIFFERENT TYPE OF FENCE, WE ARE 10 FEET APART.

WELL, REGARDLESS I MAY HAVE IN MY MIND IS NO DIFFERENT THAN HAVING ONE NEIGHBORS ON TWO DIFFERENT FENCE.

THEY WANTED THAT SPECIFICALLY.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM OF YOUR TRIP IS THAT THEY CAN'T HIDE IT WITH LANDSCAPING.

WE CAN'T IN THE CITY, WE HAVE TREES AND BUSHES AND TALL PLANTS, AND THEY CAN'T SEEM TO DO THAT THERE FOR SOME OF THEM EVENTUALLY TRACE THEIR STREET TREES THERE.

AND THEN EVENTUALLY WE'LL BE STREAMING THEY'RE GROWING.

SO THEY WILL HAVE STREET TREES.

THERE ARE HOUSES JUST AS CLOSE ALONG EAST, FRONT STREET IN THE NEXT, NOT THE NEXT BLOCK DOWN, BUT THE BLOCK AFTER THAT, THAT ARE THAT CLOSE TOGETHER.

I MEAN, HONESTLY THAT FENCE, WE COULD TAKE IT OUT.

THAT WAS THE ONE, THIS PROJECT HAD AN OWNER.

AND I JUST LEFT IT IN THERE IN CASE THEY, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WANTED TO KEEP IT.

UM, IF YOU FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT IT, WE CAN TAKE IT OUT OF THE APPLICATION.

WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? SORRY, YOU CAN IMPROVE IT.

WE ARE, I'VE ALREADY BROUGHT THIS PROJECT BACK AT LEAST TWICE.

AND THAT WAS APPROVED.

I WAS JUST TRYING TO PULL UP THE APPLICATION.

THE PREVIOUS ONE.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE GOT IT.

WHAT'S IT.

WHAT'S THE HOUSE SHAKE WHEN THAT THAT'S WAS FOR IT PREVIOUSLY WAS UH, NOT.

OKAY NOW PEGGY'S RIGHT.

I'M CONFUSED.

SO, OKAY.

NOW IT ALL COMES MAKES MORE SENSE.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY STANDARDS ANYWHERE FOR MORE.

SHOULD WE HAVE DISCUSSION MY QUESTION ABOUT THE FENCING JUST TO GO BACK AND BEAT THE DEAD HORSE IS I DON'T THINK WE CAN APPROVE IT OF ANY EVENTS.

WE JUST WENT THROUGH DESIGN REVIEW DISCUSSION ABOUT THE HEIGHT OF EVENTS.

AND WE SAID THAT OUR GUIDELINE WAS IN ARTICULATE AND WE HAVE YET TO REVISE THE GUIDELINES, WHICH MEANS THAT GOING FORWARD, WE REALLY CAN'T APPROVE ANY FENCE BASED ON HIS HEIGHT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO REVISE THE GUIDELINES.

WELL, THAT'S NOT HERE.

THAT'S NOT GERMANE TO THIS PARTICULAR DISCUSSION.

I I'M COMFORTABLE IF YOU WANT TO MAKE, UH, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT FENCE OUT OF THIS PROJECT CONDITION, I'M BACK IN ANOTHER TIME.

THAT WOULD BE GOOD.

SO HONESTLY, I SHOULD HAVE TAKEN IT OUT AND I DIDN'T, AND IT WAS A REQUEST FROM THE PREVIOUS OWNER AND I LEFT IT IN THERE.

IT HAD AN ODOR AT ONE POINT, BUT THEY, THEY BOUGHT A HOUSE ON JOHNSON STREET.

I'M SORRY TO HEAR THAT.

IT'S TAKING A LOT OF WEIGHT.

ALL GOOD.

I'M JUST GOING TO BE A OF RULE THAT THE FENCE IS NOT INCLUDED.

WE WILL COME BACK AT ANOTHER TIME FOR A NEW APPROVAL.

AND, AND THE OWNER OF THIS DEVELOPMENT HAS RULES FOR THE DEVELOPMENT ANY WAY.

AND FENCE DISCUSSION HAS BEEN A BIG PART OF THAT BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT ISSUE.

AND SO IT HASN'T BEEN RESOLVED YET, BUT, BUT ABSOLUTELY THAT IS AN ISSUE THAT THEY WANT TO MAKE IT LOOK UNIFORM.

OH, I THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE IT OUT FOR THE TIME BEING.

ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM.

SO YOU WOULD KNOW OR JUST, YOU CAN MAKE IT

[00:25:07]

SO IS THE FENCE MENTIONED IN THE APPLICATION? IT'S NOT MENTIONED IN THE APPLICATION YES.

AND SOME DRAWINGS, WHICH ARE PART OF THE APPLICATION.

BUT IT'S WRITTEN INTO THE APPLICATION.

IT'S NOT HERE.

THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING.

SARAH SAYS IT'S PART OF THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL.

THIS IS NOT A CHANGE NECESSARILY, BUT COMING BACK SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS THIS NEW APPLICATION CHANGED.

SO I THINK YOU SAID IT WAS A NEW APPLICATION.

UM, WELL, I DON'T TAKE OUT MY YOU'RE YOU'RE BRINGING UP SOMETHING NEW ABOUT THIS.

NOT THAT IT'S A NEW APPLICATION.

THIS IS BEING PRESENTED AS AN, UH, CHANGES TO APPROVED COS IS HOW IT'S BEEN PRESENTED.

I MEAN, IT'S BEEN, UM, MY QUESTION IS WHAT IS THAT FENCE AND WHAT WAS THE FOOD? UM, BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THIS, RIGHT? NO, BUT YOU DON'T.

TALK ABOUT THE CRASH.

SO IF YOU TAKE THE PICTURES OF THE FENCE OUT THEN UP, BUT I HAVE THE APPROVAL HERE, BUT I, I CAN'T, UM, I CAN GET IT AND BRING IT TO THE SCREEN, BUT IT'S GONNA TAKE FIVE IT'S WE'RE FINE.

TAKING IT OUT.

I MEAN, IT DOESN'T, WE CAN ABSOLUTELY BRING IT BACK.

SO, SO WHOEVER ASKED FOR THIS TO, TO, TO THE APPROVED APPROVAL HERE, THE MOTION FOR IT, YOU NEED TO ADD THAT THE FENCE IS BEING REMOVED FROM THE APPLICATION WITH THE CONSENT OF THE ACTORS WITH IT.

SO DID WE EVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION PREVIOUSLY, AS YOU CAN SEE? WELL, THAT IS, I'M JUST LOOKING AT IT HERE.

THAT'S WHAT WAS ASSUMING PREVIOUSLY APPROVED THE THING.

IT ONLY MATTERS IN TERMS OF HOW WE HANDLE IT.

CAUSE IT WAS APPROVED IN JANUARY.

SO WHOEVER MAKES THE MOTION HAS TO TAKE OUT THE FENCE.

DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE WELL, SO WHAT, WHAT, WHAT TRIP IS ALLUDING TO THOUGH IS IT'S NOT JUST NOT INCLUDED IN THIS.

IT WOULD BE REVOKING ESSENTIALLY THE APPROVAL FOR THE EVENTS.

IT ACTUALLY, I, UM, IT IS INCLUDED ACTUALLY IT'S INCLUDED IN MY JANUARY SUBMITTAL WITH THE FENCE, BUT THE DESIGN OF THE HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT.

I MEAN, I MEAN, IF YOU WANT TO DO A CONDITION THAT JUST SAYS, UM, YOU KNOW, ANY FENCE APPROVABLE COME BACK FOR THE HTC, THEY'RE THERE, YOU KNOW, I I'M 95% SURE THEY WON'T PUT THE EXPENSIVE, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF THE INITIAL BILL, WILL THAT TAKE CARE OF IT? IF WE PUT IN THERE THAT EITHER THIS OFFENSE IS NOT INCLUDED IN THIS ROOM, THAT THAT OFFENSE IS TAKING THE FENCE OUT AS PART OF THIS, I THINK, UH, TRIP, TRIP, UH, DIRECTED ME IN THAT THE APPLICANT IS READING REQUESTING, BUT THEN TO BE REMOVED FROM THIS APPLICATION, THAT'S FINE.

I MEAN, IT WAS APPROVED IN THE JANUARY MEETING, BUT IT DOESN'T, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE ONE OF YOUR CHANGES HERE.

THAT'S FINE.

KATIE, CAN YOU ACCEPT THAT? I ACCEPT THAT IT WILL BE ONE OF YOUR CHANGES THAT WE'RE MOVING THE FENCE WHERE THE CHANGES.

SO WHOEVER'S GOING TO MAKE THE MOTION.

THAT'S GOING TO BE PART OF, ONE OF THE CHANGES.

TO BE CONGRUENT DISTRICTS WOULD WITH THE NEWBORNS CODE ORDINANCE SECTIONS FIFTEEN FOUR ONE ONE DASH 15 DOT FOUR, TWO NINE, AND NEWBORNS HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, BASED ON THE FILE AND SPECIFIC GUIDELINES OF FIND STUFF.

WE'RE ALL SET ON THAT.

ANYBODY UNSETTLED ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING? OKAY.

SO CAN I HAVE A MOTION FROM SOMEONE AND INCLUDE REMOVING THE FENCE? I MOVE TO FIND THE AMENDMENT TO THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR 8 0 8 EAST FRONT STREET

[00:30:01]

THAT'S GOING TO GET ME TO SAY INSERT STAFFS RECOMMENDATIONS.

SURE.

SO, UM, BASED ON GUIDELINES, DEVELOPMENT PATTERN TWO.ONE.ONE, TWO, THREE DESIGN PRINCIPLES, THREE.ONE.ONE, 2, 3, 4, AND FIVE INFILL CONSTRUCTION, THREE.FOUR.ONE, 2, 3, 4 FOUNDATIONS, NOT ONE, THREE AND FOUR WALLS FROM AN ORIENTATION FOR DOCK TO DOCK FOR WINDOWS, DOORS AND OPENINGS FOR TOP THREE, THREE ENTRANCES, FOUR DOT FOUR DOT FOUR REUS WERE NOT FIVE DOT FOUR DECKS WERE DOT SIX DOT TWO MASONARY $5, ONE DOT THREE, FIVE, AND SIX METALS, $5 FOR PAINT, FIVE DOT 4, 2, 3, 4, AND SIX SAVING REASONS BASED ON INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION.

UH, THE PROJECT IS LOCATED IN THE NARROW STITCH DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.

THE PROPOSAL IS AN INFIELD PROJECT, PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE GUIDELINES FROM THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.

SHE BUILT AN OFFICIAL REVIEW, THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.

THIS PROJECT IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE BACKGROUND AND A CONDITION.

IS THAT THE, UH, THAT THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL OF THE FENCE, THE AFRICANS IS WITHDRAWN AND THAT THEY WILL COME BACK AT A LATER TIME WITH ANY NEW FENCE APPROVAL.

UM, OKAY.

ARE WE ALL CLEAR ON THAT? EVERYBODY'S SHAKING THEIR HEAD.

ALL RIGHT, EVERYBODY IN FAVOR, SAY AYE.

AYE.

OPPOSED.

YOU'RE NONE.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, JUST A SECOND.

SO WE FINISH, WE FINISHED WITH THAT FAR.

SO LET US, UH, CAN I HAVE A, TO ISSUE US? IT'S AN AMENDMENT UNDER

[4. Old Business (non-hearing items tabled or continued from a previous meeting)]

OLD BUSINESS.

I'D LIKE TO RAISE THE QUESTION.

UM, GUS, ARE THEY GOING TO ONE THAT ROAD BEHIND THIS DEVELOPMENT? THAT'S PAT MITCHELL OWNS THAT PROPERTY? I DON'T KNOW.

MY QUESTION IS WHAT, AND I'VE ASKED THIS BEFORE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HOUSE AND YOU'RE GOING DOWN, UM, WHEN BARBIE, WHEN GLENBURN, WHEN QUEEN AND THE HOUSE ON THE, THAT ANTHER SITS AT, EVEN WITH THAT RUNWAY, WHICH IS BIGGER, IT LOOKS LIKE HE'S GOING TO HAVE A DIFFICULT TURNING RADIUS GETTING INTO HIS GARAGE.

AND THEN ON THE RIVERSIDE, THE ROAD IS EVEN SMALLER.

WE'VE, WE'VE, WE'VE LAID OUT, TURNING RADIUS IS GOOD THERE, BUT WE HAVE, I UNDERSTAND IT'S TIGHT AND IT, IT IS.

BUT, UM, YEAH.

THANK YOU, SARAH.

MY QUESTION IS, DO WE EVEN NEED STATEMENTS OR REASON FOR ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION? IT COST YOU ANYTHING TO DO OKAY.

SO ONE OF THE, UH, ASSUMING WHERE WE RAN TO PUT THIS, UM, WITH GERMAN LAW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO DECIDE ON WHICH WE DISCUSSED AT OUR LAST MEETING WAS WHAT IS THE PAGE FROM WHICH, FROM WHEN SOMETHING IS GOING TO BE, CAN WE DO THAT UNDER, CAN WE DO THAT ON THEIR OTHER ITEMS AF OR, UM, COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS SO FOR HIS OLD BUSINESS AND THERE SEEMS TO BE NONE, PEGGY JUST BROUGHT UP THAT ITEM IS OLD BUSINESS.

OH, OKAY.

THAT ITEM IS OKAY.

THERE ARE NO GENERAL PUBLIC PRESENCE IN OUR MEETING.

SO THE NEXT ITEM

[6A. PDBN Work Group membership – whether to allow a former HPC member to serve]

IS THE P

[00:35:01]

D B WORK GROUP.

SO, UH, ALL FOR THE PREVENTION OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT WORK GROUP, UM, ONE OF OUR MEMBERS IS, UH, UH, RESIGNING, UH, AND THAT WOULD THAT'S CHRISTIAN EVANS, UM, AS A HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEMBER.

UH, HOWEVER, SHE WOULD LIKE TO REMAIN SERVING ON THE WORK GROUP AS A NON HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEMBER, ESSENTIALLY AS A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC.

BUT OF COURSE SHE HAS THE EXPERIENCE AND BACKGROUND ALREADY ACCUMULATED TO SERVE ON THAT WORK GROUP.

NOW WE DO NOT HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER NON HPC MEMBERS ON THAT WORK GROUP YET, BUT WE DO HAVE ANOTHER WORK GROUP, THE, UH, HISTORIC PROPERTY OWNERS SUPPORT WORK GROUP, UH, THAT DOES HAVE, UH, QUITE A FEW NON HPC MEMBERS ON THAT.

SO, UH, WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE SINCE WHEN THE AGE OF THE HIP, THE HIP WORK GROUP, UH, WAS ESTABLISHED, IT WAS KNOWN AND UNDERSTOOD IT, THE GET GO THAT THERE WOULD BE NON HPC MEMBERS ON THAT ONE.

HOWEVER, WHEN WE FORMED THE PBN WORK GROUP MANY MOONS AGO, YEARS SURE.

UH, IT WAS PROBABLY NEVER ANTICIPATED THAT A NON DPC MEMBER WOULD BE INTERESTED AND LET ALONE ALLOWED TO SERVE.

SO I FEEL LIKE IT'S NECESSARY TO AT LEAST FORMALIZE IT.

IF YOU, IF YOU CHOOSE TO HAVE A NON HPC MEMBER SERVE ON THAT WORK, WHAT DOES THAT WORK WITH? GOOD TITLE.

SO, UH, PRIMARILY, UH, THEY WORKED THROUGH MANY OF THE DIFFERENT ISSUES RELATED TO ANY, UH, DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT CASES.

UM, SO, UM, RECENTLY, UH, UH, WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING AND DISCUSSING, UH, SEVERAL ITEMS THAT ARE ON THE AGENDA FOR THIS EVENING.

UH, THEY'VE ALSO BEEN HELPING THE, UH, ADMINISTRATOR I E MYSELF, UH, TO WORK THROUGH THE, UM, UH, I GUESS, UH, THE TRACKING SHEET AS I CALL IT, UH, FOR ALL THE VARIOUS, UH, CASES THAT SEEM TO HAVE BEEN PLACED ON THE DEMOLITION MINOR LIST, OR AT LEAST, UH, HAVE HAD COMPLAINTS, UH, UH, FILED, UH, AND SO TO TRACK WHERE THEY ARE IN THEIR CURRENT STATUS.

UH, SO, UM, WHEN I ARRIVED HERE, IT WAS NOT THAT CLEAR WHERE MOST OF THOSE WERE, OR EVEN WHAT WAS ON THE LIST, SO, OR WHAT WAS NOT ON THE LIST.

SO, UM, WE'RE WORKING THROUGH ALL THE VARIOUS FILES THAT ARE BOTH, UH, AT, IN THE, UM, HISTORIC PRESERVATION ADMINISTRATOR'S OFFICE, AS WELL AS IN THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTORS OFFICE.

UM, AND THE REASON FOR THAT, IF YOU DON'T ALREADY KNOW, IS THAT BECAUSE, UH, ONCE THE CASE GETS SERIOUS THAN THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR IS BROUGHT INTO THE PROCESS AS WELL.

SO, UH, THOSE ARE THE TWO MAIN THINGS, UH, AT THE MOMENT WE ALSO HAVE BEEN, UH, WE'VE HAD A PROPOSAL TO MAYBE, UH, TALK ABOUT, UH, STREAMLINING THE PROCESS A LITTLE BIT AS WELL, BUT, UM, WE SEEM TO HAVE BIGGER FISH TO FRY OR MORE URGENT THINGS, I GUESS IS MAYBE A BETTER WAY TO PUT IT, UM, TO ADDRESS.

AND THAT TAKES ALL OF OUR TIME AT THE MOMENT.

AND WE DO MEET TWICE A MONTH AND THAT WOULD BEEN SHOCKING TO FIND HOW MANY CASES ARE JUST DROPPED.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT COMPLETED DROPPED JUST BECAUSE AT SOME POINT YOU NEVER ENDED UP MOVING FINES OR ANYTHING.

OFTENTIMES IT'S FORGOTTEN BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN STAFF TURNOVER, BOTH AT THE, BOTH AT THE PRESERVATION SIDE AND ON THE, UM, BUILDING INSPECTION SIDE AND ALSO, UM, WORKLOADS OF BACK IN THE WAY HURRICANES HAPPEN.

THAT SEEMS TO DELAY A LOT OF OTHER THINGS.

JOE'S HOUSE ON THE WORK GROUP DOESN'T HAVE OFFICIAL STANDING TO MAKE BUYING DECISIONS.

BASIC OUTSTATIONS THAT IMPORT

[00:40:01]

NOW WE CAN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THIS YES.

WHICH CAN MAKE DECISIONS, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE LEGAL POSITION.

AND THAT BEING THE CASE, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY REASONABLE INTONATION PROCESSES, MADAM CHAIR, IN THE SPIRIT OF BEING HELPFUL.

THERE IS NO LEGAL PROHIBITION AGAINST A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC OR CITIZEN PARTICIPATING IN THE WORK GROUP, OR THE MORE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THAT'S YOUR DISCRETION ON WHO GETS ON THE COMMITTEE TO START WITH, WHAT IS IT THAT, SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU WANT OUTSIDE CONSULTANTS, WHETHER THEY BE THE PUBLIC, OR IF WE HIRE SOMEBODY IT'S UP TO THE CHAIR, SO THE CHAIR GETS TO THE TRAUMA, AND WE'VE ALSO HEARD THAT THERE'S NOTHING LEGALLY PREVENTING A NON-MEMBER AND BEING ON THE WORKFORCE.

SO I GUESS SO IF WE SAY SO, DO WE MAKE A MOTION THAT, THAT BE OKAY, PROBABLY EXCEPT, OR I JUST GET TO THE SIDE OKAY.

SO I DECLARE THAT YOU CAN BE ON THE , IS THAT WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO DO? OKAY.

SO IF YOU CAN ADD HER TO THAT, BY THE WAY, ITEM A, IS THAT, UM, THE, UH, THE CHAIR, UM, HAS THE AUTHORITY TO CHOOSE WHOMEVER OR WHATEVER COMMITTEE MEANT TO SERVE FOR THE WORK GROUPS.

AND THAT'S THERE THERE'S NOTHING LEGALLY BINDING THAT WOULD PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING FROM OUR LEGAL CONSULTANT.

SO NOW THE,

[6B. Work Group assignments – PDBN Work Group, HiP Owners Support Work Group]

ALL RIGHT, BEAUTIFUL.

ALREADY APPOINTED, UM, MS. EVANS TO THE, UH, PDPM WORK GROUP.

UM, WE, UM, ARE ALSO SOON LOSING ANOTHER MEMBER FROM OUR HIP WORK GROUP.

UM, SO WE COULD USE SOMEONE TO ACTUALLY, GEORGE, YOU WOULD LIKE TO STAY ON THAT GEORGE, YOU WOULD LIKE TO STAY ON THAT GROUP.

GOOD POINT, GEORGE SUPPORT GROUP.

MY ASK ABOUT THE PRESERVATION OF AWARDS WORK GROUP.

WELL, THAT, THAT WORK GROUP IS DONE AS DUTY TO THIS POINT IN TIME.

UM, WE, WE CAN APPOINT HER TO THE GROUP, TO THAT GROUP AS WELL TO KEEP HER ON THERE UNTIL HE GETS OFFICIALLY APPROVED BY THE ALDERMAN.

DO WE KNOW WHERE WE ARE IN THAT PROCESS OF IT BEING APPROVED? SO, UH, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT AFTERWARDS AFTER THE MEETING.

ON TO NUMBER SEVEN, EIGHT, WHICH IS REPORTS ON COIS ISSUED MAJORS AND INVALIDS AND MINOR AND AMENDMENTS.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

UH, ARE THERE ANY, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SERVE ON ANY OF THE VARIOUS WORK GROUPS AND THAT AS WELL, OR WOULD LIKE TO SWITCH FROM WHAT YOU WENT OVER THERE? SEEING THAT WE WILL MOVE

[7A. HPC Administrator’s Report Report on CoAs Issued 5/11/2021 – 6/7/2021 MAJORS and AMENDMENTS: 1 - 809 Broad St. (Country Biscuit) – new masonry veneer below windows in the Primary and Secondary AVCs. 2 - 402 Dunn St. – new shed in the Secondary and Tertiary AVCs. 3 - 508 Johnson St. – replacing rear porch steps with wood landing, steps, and railing, removing a portion of screening and all vinyl ceiling on the upper porch, adding new screening and screen doors on both the lower and upper porches in the Tertiary AVC. 4 - 509 Broad St. – new accessibility ramp to front entrance in Primary and Secondary AVCs. MINORS and AMENDMENTS: 1 - 100 Middle St. ROW – Tree replacement 2 - 115 Middle St. ROW – Tree replacement 3 - 244 Middle St. Amendment: Cell antenna equipment on rear wall, in equipment room 4 - 308 Metcalf St. – 14 items 5 - 312 Avenue A ROW – Tree replacement 6 - 407 Metcalf St. ROW – Tree replacement 7 - 504 Middle St. – Front landscaping 8 - 505 E Front St. ROW – Tree replacement 9 - 512 Queen St. – Small front picket fence 10 - 609 E Front St. – Rear access ramp, driveway pavement, playset, tree removals 11 - 610 Metcalf St. – Rear garden fence 12 - 614 Craven St. – Temporary plantings 13 - 704 E Front St. – Rear fence 14 - 728 Queen St. – Replace 2 front windows]

CORRECT.

THIS IS MY NUMBER COMPANY FOUND MYSELF.

HOW MANY, UM, AND ALL OF THESE THINGS GET TAKEN CARE OF JUST BETWEEN MEETINGS, BY EMAIL, WITH MATT AND MYSELF.

I, WITH MY TRUSTED COLLEAGUES HERE, UM, ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN BE MANNERS AND WHAT CAN YOU DO, BUT THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE APPROVED ALREADY SINCE THE LAST MEETING.

ANYBODY QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY OF THESE, THE LAST REGULAR SEEING NONE, WE WILL BE TO REPORT ON THE COA EXTENSIONS ISSUED SINCE THE PROM REGULAR MEETING.

AND THAT'S NONE 2 21

[7C. 221 E. Front St. – update on this Demolition by Neglect case, no HPC action]

EAST FRONT

[00:45:01]

STREET.

WE, WE HAD A MEETING ABOUT THAT MONDAY, RIGHT, RIGHT.

OH YEAH.

FRIDAY MORNING.

WE HAD A MEETING WITH THE GENTLEMAN THAT OWNS THE HOUSE, WHICH ONE OF THE TWO OF YOU WANT TO GIVE A REPORT? OH, WE, WE CAN GIVE A REPORT.

SO, UH, YEAH, ESSENTIALLY WE MET WITH THE NEW PROPERTY OWNER AND TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SEQUENCING OF WORK AS WELL AS A COUNCIL WILL ASSIST IN ASSIGNING A SCHEDULE TO THAT WORK SEQUENCE.

UM, AND ALSO, UH, WE WILL BE HEARING FROM THE AFTERNOON AT THE JULY DESIGN REVIEW, UM, TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES AS WELL AS, UH, MAYBE ANSWER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS IN TERMS OF SEQUENCE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO WE ALL HAVE A CHANCE TO GET FAMILIAR.

UM, AND THEN THERE'S WEDNESDAY I HAD YESTERDAY.

UM, I PARTICIPATED IN AN INTERIOR OBSERVATION OF PROGRESS OR MOVING, UH, MS. JESSE OUT, UM, DESPITE SOME HARDSHIPS, UH, SHE IS MAKING PRETTY GOOD PROGRESS.

AND, UH, I I'D SAY THE, UH, THIRD FLOOR, THE, WHAT WOULD BE THE ATTIC SPACES IT'S FINISHED, BUT IT'S EMPTY.

AND THE SECOND FLOOR IS EMPTY GIVEN JESSIE STANDARDS AND THE FIRST FLOOR NEEDS SUPPORT.

UH, BUT IT'S MADE A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE.

UM, WE ASSESSED, UH, WINDOWS AND SASHES AND DEALER, AND THEY ARE ALL REMARKABLY INTACT.

AND SO, UH, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT TYPE OF WORK MIGHT BE INVOLVED TO, UH, UH, GET THOSE UP TO PAR.

UM, BUT I THINK WHAT YOU WILL HEAR AT DESIGN REVIEW IS A FOCUS ON, UH, UH, MASONRY WORK ON THE PARAPETS, AS WELL AS SOME ROOFING WORK TO GET THE BUILDING, WHETHER IT'S ANYTHING BEYOND THAT MOVIE GRAVY, SO TO SPEAK IN TERMS OF MOVING THINGS DOWN, HOW MANY DUMPSTERS THAT LEFT THAT HOUSE NOW SAY, OKAY, BUT THERE'S A LARGE LONG ONE SENDING THERE IN THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.

THAT'S GOING TO BE RELOCATE SOMEWHAT.

ALTHOUGH I, AND ARE YOU SATISFIED THAT THE RAIN IS OUT NOW, THEY'VE GOT THE ROOF AND EVERYTHING WORK TO DO, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, JESSIE'S STILL MORE OR LESS OCCUPIED THE BUILDING.

AND SO, UM, THAT'S SOCIAL SERVICES HAS VERY, VERY LIMITED POWER AND COMPETENT.

AND THEN ALSO THAT'S THE AFRICANS PROBLEM, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED SO FAR, THEY SEEM TO BE MAKING PROGRESS.

AND SHE JUST ASKED SINCE YOU'LL BE OUT BY JUNE THE 21ST, WHICH SHE HAS SAID THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, JANUARY 21ST.

SO I'M JUST TELLING, I'M JUST, WE JUST REPORT.

BUT THE GENTLEMAN WHO KNOWS IT IS I THINK, READY TO MOVE ON.

YES, HE IS.

HE'S HE SAYS, HE'S GOING TO FIX IT.

JOHNSON STREET AND ONE AND FOUR JOHNSON.

1 0 4

[7D. 104 Johnson St. – update on this Demolition by Neglect case, no HPC action]

THERE'S ACTUALLY NOTHING NEW TO REPORT SINCE LAST MONTH.

THEN NOT SEVEN 15 EAST FRONT STREET.

SO, AND

[7E. 715 E. Front St. – update on this historic structure of concern by the HPC, no HPC action]

UM, THAT IS ONE OF THE, UH, THAT IS A PROPERTY THAT WAS REVIEWED BY THE PDB WORK GROUP, UH, THIS PAST MEETING.

AND WHEN, ONCE IT WAS REVIEWED, IT WAS DECIDED THAT, UM, UH, THAT, UH, THE ADMINISTRATOR SHOULD, UH, BEGIN THE PROCESS OR DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT, UH, AND SEND AN OFFICIAL, UH, COURTESY LETTER TO THE OWNERS TO INFORM THEM, WHICH IS THE VERY FIRST STEP.

SO YOU DID FIND THE OWNER, OH, NO.

THIS IS THE ADDRESS OF THE OWNER.

THIS IS JOHNSON STREET.

I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LITTLE HOUSE.

THAT'S ALL TORN UP.

THAT HAS HER, RIGHT.

THAT ONE'S MS. MCDEVITT.

[00:50:01]

[7F. Other Items and Updates]

ITEMS WOULD UPDATE TO ANYONE.

UM, SO WE'LL HAVE RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO JESSE'S HOUSE THAT THEY ELEVATED AND HAD FINISHED THE FLOOR.

SO, UM, OTHER UPDATES.

SO, UM, I HAVE BEEN, UM, OR HAD BEEN HAVING SOME DISCUSSIONS WITH HIM TO GET IT MOVING ALONG AS WELL AS TO HELP HIM, UH, UH, FIND THE APPROPRIATE, UH, SIDING, UH, TO REPLACE THE PIECES THAT WERE REMOVED BECAUSE HE HAS AS A SOCIETY.

UM, I DID HELP HIM FIND A, A BRIEF, THIN CONCRETE SIDING THAT HAS THE SAME DIMENSIONS AS THE ASBESTOS.

SO THE, UM, I THINK HE'S ACQUIRED THOSE.

AND I ALSO TALKED TO HIM ON SITE ABOUT THE REST OF THE PROJECT, AND I HAVE SEEN HIM AT, UH, DIRECTING SOME WORKERS ON SITE IN THE PAST.

BUT, UM, I MEAN, I ONLY GO UP AROUND THE ONLY SO OFTEN, BUT, UH, SO I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING.

NOT THAT IT HASN'T HAPPENED.

I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING IN THE PAST FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS.

IT'S JUST THE SUN NOW.

IT, IT WAS, IT WAS MOM, MOM WAS IN THE HOUSE.

SO AT ONE POINT HE DID.

UM, AND THIS IS EARLIER ON, UM, HE HAD HAD SOME ISSUES WITH, UH, COORDINATING, UH, THE, UH, LANDING FOR, FOR HIS STEPS DOWN AT THE BOTTOM WHERE IT MEETS THE SIDEWALK, UM, AND ALSO DRAINAGE OUT OF HIS WALLS, UH, OUT ONTO THE SIDEWALK.

UM, SO I'VE TALKED TO HIM A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT WAS A COORDINATION THING WITH, HE HAD TO DO WITH THE PUBLIC WORKS PEOPLE.

SOME OF THE LAST COURSE IS ALWAYS A COMPANY.

WHAT'S HE NOT GOING TO VISION CARE, SAME LANDSCAPING WHEN HE FIRST CAME TO SEE US A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

SEAL AES OR WHATEVER, AS LONG AS SOMETHING BEGAN, EVEN IF THEY DID NOTHING FOR FIVE YEARS AND WE TAKE THEM TO COURT BECAUSE OF DEMOLITION, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE BECAUSE THE JUDGE IS GOING TO SAY, YOU ISSUED A COA.

BUT HE PRETTY MUCH, I THINK GAVE UP ON THAT.

SO IT'S, AS YOU'VE SEEN NOW, UM, THERE WILL THE STEPS GO UP AND THEN THERE'S A LANDING ALONG LANDING WHICH ALLOWS ACCESS TO THE, TO THE YARDS THAT WILL BE THERE.

AND THEN FROM THERE IS ANOTHER SET OF STEPS UP TO THE FINAL DOORWAY, THE STUPID, THE DOORWAY, I BELIEVE.

AND Y'ALL CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

THAT LANDSCAPING WAS SORT OF PART OF THE COA.

IT WAS, IT WAS.

SO I WAS GETTING READY TO SAY, IF HE'S NOT FOLLOWING.

YEAH, NO, NO.

WHAT HE'S BUILT IS WHAT THE CLA THE LANDSCAPING WAS WITHOUT HAVING ANY LINES.

I KNOW HE WAS SUPPOSED TO, BUT LANCE CAME IN, I THOUGHT LANDSCAPING, WASN'T PART OF THIS YET.

HE JUST HASN'T GOTTEN TO THE PROPERTY.

SOMEBODY COMES IN, PUT SOME DIRT, RIGHT.

AS FOR DISTENSION, NOBODY STARTS HEALING GOOD FOR A YEAR.

IT'S GOOD FOREVER.

ONCE YOU START EVERYTHING WELL, SO, NO.

SO THAT'S WHERE, UH, GOING BACK ONE TO SEVEN, 15 EAST FRONT STREET, AND ALSO HAD TO SEE A WAYS, IN FACT, UH, AND, UM, IN ONE SENSE, THE COULD BE CONSIDERED UNDER, STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION, BUT IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE WE ISSUED THAT COA, UH, WELL, WE HAD TO STOP THEM FROM DOING WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

THEY DID DO SOME WORK ONCE THEY GOT THE COA, AND THEN IT STOPPED AFTER THAT.

SO IS IT, UH, IS IT, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW LONG CAN A PROJECT BE UNDER CONSTRUCTION? AND SO NOW PDPM WORK GROUP SAID, WELL, THAT'S LONG ENOUGH.

WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS AS DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT, BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY NO ACTIVITY.

BUT AGAIN, TO ME, I'M GLAD YOU'RE HERE.

YOU ENLIGHTENED US.

IT JUST SEEMS AS THOUGH OUR POSITION INDEFENSIBLE

[00:55:01]

IT'S MY RECOLLECTION.

I WAS ACTUALLY TRYING TO PULL IT UP WHILE YOU WERE SPEAKING THAT THE CODE READS THAT AN APPLICANT SHALL COMPLY WITH THE COA WITHIN ONE YEAR OF THIS ISSUANCE, UNLESS THERE'S AN EXTENSION.

WHAT COMPLY MEANS IN THAT CONTEXT HAS BEEN INTERPRETED TO SAFE AGAIN.

AND IT MAY BE THAT WE CAN HAVE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF THAT WORK.

SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE, AS FAR AS PROLONGED CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS, LET'S LABEL IT THAT WAY.

DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT IS ONLY ONE OF THE TOOLS IN THE TOOL BELT TO DEAL WITH THAT PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE.

SO OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THAT THESE ARE THE CRITERIA DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT MAY BE AN OPTION.

ALSO OUTSIDE OF THE HPC, IF THERE IS A RESONANCE, THAT'S IN A STATE OF DISREPAIR THAT DOESN'T MEET THE MINIMUM BUILDING CODE, THEN THERE'S ALSO RESOURCE, UH, RESOURCES ON THE INSPECTION SIDE.

SO THE GOAL IS TO HAVE SAFE HABITABLE HOUSES WITHIN THE DISTRICT, IN THE LARGEST CITY OF NEWBURGH.

IT MAY BE THAT THIS BOARD COLLABORATES WITH OTHER CITY RESOURCES TO ACCOMPLISH IT SENTENCE.

SO THE SAME AS MINIMUM.

WE CAN GO OUT AND WORK.

YES, SIR.

MA'AM.

WELL, AND YOU CAN JUST TELL, I HAVE ONE MORE ONE.

SO, SO WHEN YOU READ THOSE WORDS COMPLY, SO WE COULD DEFINE WHAT WE THINK COMPLY, YOU CAN USE, HUH? THIS COMMISSION CANNOT MAKE THIS DECISION UNILATERALLY.

THAT'S A CONVERSATION THAT I WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE.

UM, WE'RE CONSIDERED SENIOR COUNSEL.

THERE MAY BE CASE LAW AND OTHER, UM, RESOURCES ACROSS THE STATE THAT MAY BOLSTER A POSITION ABOUT ONE INTERPRETATION, OPEN THE UP.

AND COULD YOU DO THAT? I'VE HAD TO REPORT BACK TO .

AND THEN WE CAN MAKE WHATEVER DECISIONS WE CAN MAKE WITH YOUR INFORMATION.

HAPPY TO, WE ARE SO GLAD TO HEAR I PLEASE GO AHEAD.

I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS.

NOW I'M WONDERING, IS IT, DO WE HAVE THE, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO INVITE AN APPLICANT OR SOMEONE WHOSE APPLICATION WE'VE APPROVED TO COME BACK BEFORE US AND DISCUSS THEIR PROGRESS IS THAT WE HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.

YOU HAVE, THE AUTHORITIES WOULD INVITE THEM IF THEY DECLINED THE INVITATION, YOU DO NOT HAVE SUBPOENA POWER.

BY STATUTE, A HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION CAN, BUT THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN IN THE CITY OF NEWBURGH DID NOT GET THAT POWER TO THIS PARTICULAR COMMISSION.

UM, HMM.

AND WHAT WOULD BE OUR NEXT OPTION IF THEY COULD NOT COME BACK, BUT WE HAD A MAN COME BACK ABOUT THE FENCE AND HE CAME AND DISCUSSED IT WITH HIM.

SO IF HE EVER REFUSED TO COME BACK, WHAT WOULD BE OUR NEXT OPTION? WELL, A VIOLATION.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION.

SO THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION ABOUT THE FENCE WAS A COA ISSUE.

COA WAS ISSUED WITH PARTICULAR SPECIFICATIONS, RIGHT? DID HE BUILD THE FENCE TO THOSE SPECIFICATIONS? WE DON'T PUT IT.

LET'S SAY HE DID.

IF HE DID NOT LET HIM, BUT IF THE APPLICANT FAILED TO COMPLY WITH THEIR COA, THAT CAN BE PROSECUTED FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM AS A VIOLATION OF, OKAY.

THAT'S MY BEST ANSWER.

WE'LL TAKE YOUR ANSWER.

MA'AM THANK YOU SO MUCH.

PROPERTY AND MY PROPERTY, ANY FENCE THAT THEY PUT UP, IF YOU LOOKED AT IT FROM MY PROPERTY, EVEN IF IT WAS ONLY A FOUR FOOT FENCE, THAT THEY COULD GO SIX, BUT FROM MY PROPERTY WOULD BE TWO FAULT FROM THEIR PROPERTY.

SO LET US GO TO OUR OTHER ITEMS, WHICH HAD TO DO WITH THE MAN IN THE FENCE AND WHICH JOE HAS BROUGHT UP TONIGHT.

AND THAT IS, DO WE WANT TO DEFINE FROM WHENCE PLACE A FENCE IS GOING TO BE MANAGED SO THAT WE DO NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT AGAIN? YES.

BECAUSE IT VERY CLEAR, ALTHOUGH HE DOESN'T SEEM TO THING IS VERY CLEAR THAT HE BUILT A BERM UP AND DID THE FENCE FROM THE, FROM THAT, I MEAN, AND THAT'S WHY, WHEN YOU SAW HIM IN THE PICTURES WITH YOU CALLING HIM IN ADDITION OR NOT, THAT WAS WHAT WAS IN THE PROPOSAL.

SO DO WE, AS A COMMISSION GOING TO IDENTIFY WHAT WE WANT, THE LEVEL OF OFFENSE TO BE FROM WHICH IT IS GOING TO BE MEASURED FROM FOUR FOOT TO THE SIX FOOT.

WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO DEFINE THAT AND WE MAY HAVE VARYING CONDITIONS FOR LOCATION BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR TO ME IS ABOUT FOUR FEET HIGHER THAN BACK THE

[01:00:01]

IT MEETS THE GUIDELINES.

SO THAT'S A COMPLETE CONFUSION, BUT THEY'RE NOT VIOLATING THE INTENT OF THE GUIDELINE.

THEY'RE REALLY NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE BUILDING IT FROM THEIR GROUND LEVEL.

SO IN THAT SENSE, WE MAY HAVE TO SAY, BECAUSE OF THAT CONDITION, YOU CAN ONLY BUILD IT THIS POINT.

WELL, WE, WE COULD WRITE A GUIDELINE OR A STANDARD THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, FROM THE VIEW, FROM WHERE, FROM BOTH SIDES FROM ONE SUMMIT, BECAUSE THAT DEBT IS A COMPLICATING FACTOR, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT.

MY BIAS WOULD BE THAT WE ALSO NEED TO ADDRESS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE COMMERCIAL ZONE VERSUS THE RESIDENTIAL ZONE, THE AREAS, BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT CONDITIONS FOR CONSTRUCTION AND FOR THE APPEARANCE OF THINGS IN THOSE TWO LOCATIONS, IF YOU GO DOWN THE MIDDLE STREET, KNOW THE 200 BLOCK OF MINISTRY THAT HAS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ATMOSPHERE, BECAUSE BUILDINGS ARE LITERALLY CONNECTED THAT IF YOU WENT ON TO ANY OTHER RESIDENTIAL STREET, SO WHERE YOU WOULD PUT A FENCE AND HOW THAT WOULD BE MEASURED WOULD BE VERY DIFFERENT THAN HOW YOU WOULD MEASURE ONE IN FRONT OF SOMEBODY'S HOUSE, ON JOHNSON STREET.

AND THAT DIFFERENCE SHOULD BE REFLECTED.

AND IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME IN TRUTH.

IT DOESN'T MATTER FOR ME WHAT THOSE DIFFERENCES ARE OR WHAT THE FINAL GUIDELINE WOULD STATE.

IT ONLY MATTERS TO ME THAT IT'S CLEAR IT'S DEFENSIBLE AND IT'S ENFORCED CONSISTENTLY.

THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.

SO IF WE WANT TO SAY THAT YOU CAN PUT UP A 10 FOOT BRICK ROLL IN THEIR BACKYARD AND THIS MANY PLACES IN CHARLESTON, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVING VERY COOL BRICK WALLS IN THEIR BED AND YOURS, AND IT'S LOVELY BECAUSE IT CREATES THESE PRIVATE AREAS.

WELL, WE CAN'T DO THAT.

AND DO WE WANT TO CONTINUE WITH THAT? WE, AND THAT WILL BE OKAY, BUT I NEED TO STATE THAT AND YOU NEED TO STAY WHERE THAT IS.

AND RIGHT NOW WE DON'T RIGHT NOW IT SAYS FOUR FEET, SIX FEET.

AND IT DOESN'T GIVE US ANY FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT HOW WE DETERMINE THAT IT WAS IN THE LAST DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD.

WE DISCUSSED ABOUT MEETING THE WORD FIRM, HOW WOULD BE OUT OF THE GUIDELINE, JUST SAYING FOUR FEET FROM THE SIDEWALK.

PART, PART OF ME IS THEY DON'T WANT TO REVISIT THE APPLICATION.

THE ISSUE IS PROPERTY WAS ALTERED IN ORDER TO FACILITATE WHAT THEY FINALLY DID.

SO IF SOMEONE DOES THAT, THEN WE NEED TO HAVE A GUIDELINE THAT SAYS, WELL, YOU CAN'T HOLD FOR YOUR PROPERTY IN ORDER TO GET AROUND THE GUIDELINE.

SO CAN WE PUT THIS ON? WE ONLY HAVE ONE AGENDA SO FAR AT THE NEXT DESIGN REVIEW, RIGHT.

BUT WE CAN, WE CAN GET A NEW ITEM A DAY.

UM, OH, I KNOW.

I KNOW, BUT I'M JUST SAYING WE DON'T HAVE EIGHT OR NINE.

LIKE WE COULD HAVE, CAN WE PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA OR US FOR EVERYONE TO GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO THIS? AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS MANY, MANY, MANY TIMES AND ABOUT, WE WILL PROBABLY NEED YOU TO HELP US CRAFT THE LANGUAGE THAT WILL PASS SMART FOR THAT.

YOU WILL HAVE TO HELP US DO THAT.

AND SO IF EVERYBODY CAN PUT YOUR THINKING CAPS ON FOR JEFFREY, JERRY VOLUNTEERED TO DO IT TOO.

ARE YOU DOING SOMETHING TO HELP US TODAY? HE IS DRAWING A PICTURE OF SOMETHING IT'S A CHARADE EXACTLY.

ON A BREAD BOX.

CAN WE AGREE ON THAT? RIGHT.

SO THEN THE NEXT THING YOU GOT, LET'S SAY A SIDEWALK.

FENCES RUN WITH THE LAND, OR, BUT WE DON'T LIVE IN THE HILLS.

AND LET'S SAY THIS DAM IS SIX INCHES HIGHER THAN THIS.

SO THE NEXT THING TO DECIDE IS WHETHER YOU WANT ALL OFFENSES TO BE LEVEL OR ALL

[01:05:01]

SO, AND THIS WAS JUST, DON'T ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW.

THESE ARE THE THINGS WE NEED TO DECIDE THAT SPEEDING.

SO THIS IS STANDING IN THE STREET LOOKING LEFT OR RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY.

SO YOU'VE ALSO GOT STANDING IN THE STREET, LOOK INTO THE BACK OF THE LOT.

AND IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE THAT EVERY TIME.

SO THE WATER DRAINS TO THE STREET AND NOT IN THE BACKYARDS, EXCEPT FOR AN ARTIST STORY DISTRICT WHERE THE WATER DRAINS IN THE BACKYARD.

SO WE KNOW WHO THOSE NEIGHBORS ARE.

SO YOU GOT THE SAME PROBLEM EAST, WEST, NORTH, SOUTH, SO TO SPEAK AND THE SAME ISSUE OF WHETHER YOU WANT YOUR FENCE, THE LEVEL, OR TO STEP OR RUN WITH LAND OR ONE KID.

SO I GUESS THE LAST THING I CAN THINK OF, IF DR.

JOE'S ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THAT, THERE'S OUR FENCE THERE.

THIS IS THE PROPERTY LINE.

AND SO IN ONE YARD, YOU GUYS ARE FROM THIS SIDE AND IT MAKES THAT CRITERIA.

BUT IF YOU MEASURE FROM THIS SIDE, IT DOES NOT.

IF THIS IS THE PROPERTY LINE AND THIS FENCE MEETS THIS CRITERIA, WE AGREED.

THIS IS OKAY.

WHEN YOU MEASURE IT FROM THIS SIDE OF THE FENCE, IT'S ONE DIMENSION.

AND WHEN YOU MEASURE IT FROM OVER HERE TO KNOW, DAMN, ARE YOU GETTING ALL THIS? COULD YOU GO TO HELP US CRACK? I'M SOAKING IT ALL IN.

GOOD, GOOD, LOTS OF VARIABLE.

AND YOU HAVE, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT AT THE BACK OF MY LOT ON NEW STREET IS PRECISELY THAT THING WHERE THE CHURCH IS BUILT UP ON THEIR SIDE BY A GOOD 18 INCHES, SO THAT ALL THEIR WATER, WELL, THE POINT, I THINK MATTHEW JUST MENTIONED, WHICH IS THAT THIS KIND OF CIRCUMSTANCE DIFFERENCES, PROPERTY ELEVATIONS, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE THE POSSIBILITY, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, ANY PROPERTY THAT PUTS UP A BRICK WALL.

AND THEN ONCE THE, PUT A FENCE ON TOP OF THE WALL, NOW WE GOING TO INCLUDE THE BRICK WALL, OR ARE WE ONLY GOING TO ADDRESS? I THINK THAT HAS TO BE ONE OF THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES IN MY MIND THAT MELTS DOWN TO THAT BECAUSE LIKE IN MY PROPERTY, MY HOUSE, WE HAVE A BRICK WALL AND AT THE VERY FRONT OF THE BRICK WALL IS LEVEL WITH THE SIDEWALK AND THEN THE PAGERS UP TO THE BACK AND KEEPS GOING UP.

SO IT GETS TO THE HIGHEST POINT IN MY BACKYARD WHERE THAT BRICK WALL IS FOUR FEET.

AND THEN IT TAPERS BACK DOWN AGAIN, THE PROPERTY RUNS BACK DOWN AGAIN, BUT IT'S LEVEL ON TOP OF THE BRICK WALL.

HIS FENCE STARTS AT THE LEVEL POINT ON HIS YARD, BUT EFFECTIVELY IT'S THE TOP OF THE BRICK WALL ON HIS SIDE.

HE'S SIX FEET AND HE'S ALLOWED SIX FEET ON MY SIDE.

THERE'S A COUPLE OF PLACES WHERE IT'S 10 FEET FROM MY YARD.

NOW IS HE VIOLATING THE GUIDELINE? I DON'T THINK HE IS BECAUSE HE, HE DIDN'T CREATE PARITY BETWEEN THE LEVEL OF HIS YARD.

AND MY DAD SEE THAT GETS TO THAT OTHER ISSUE.

IS IT 10 FEET ON YOUR SIDE? MY YARD IS LOWER.

STREET RUN DOWN THIS WAY, ROB TIERED FISH INTO THE RIVER, WHICH IS WHY MY BASEMENT FLOODED IN HIS DIDN'T DURING FLORENCE.

A READINESS PLANNING BED, OR THERE MIGHT BE A SITUATION WHERE IT'S SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, TODDLER, BUT I KIND OF SEE IT AS THAT.

BUT THESE ARE ALL THINGS.

WE'RE NOT, THOSE ARE IMPORTANT ISSUES.

HOW DO WE LOOK AT THAT? YEAH.

THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WE HAVE GOT TO SOMEHOW PUT ON.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE HOUSE FROM THE STREET THAT ISN'T FINISHED YET, WELL, THAT'S ALL RETAINING WALL.

IS THAT PERSONAL ALLOWED TO PUT A DECORATIVE FENCE ON TOP? THAT'S RIGHT ON BRIAN AND GEORGE.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ONE ON THESE FRONT

[01:10:01]

STREET HOUSE.

GOT YOU.

SO WHAT ARE THESE OTHER THREE THINGS? LAST THING I'M GOING TO DROP FOR YOU? WE ALL KNOW , WE'RE ASKING TO RESULT IN SHORT SIMPLE GUIDELINES.

SO THE LAST THING IS WE WILL ALL EXPERIENCE OF EXPLAINING TO AN APPLICANT WHAT THEIR, UH, DESIGN FLOOD ELEVATION IS THE FLOOD SIDE, BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY MAIN SEA LEVEL, ZERO GRADE IS SOME OTHER NUMBER.

AND TOP OF FENCE IN THIS CASE, OR DESIGN, FLOOD, ELEVATION IS ANOTHER NUMBER.

AND NOBODY CAN EVER TELL YOU HOW HIGH THEY ARE ABOVE RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, THEY HAVE TROUBLE UNDERSTAND.

SO ESSENTIALLY TO DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MATHEMATICS LIKE THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO PERFORM IT.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REVIEW NOT NECESSARILY THE MAIN SEAT LEVEL PART, BUT AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, THESE TWO BEFORE YOU LEAVE THAT TRIP, UH, IF, IF THEY CAN ADD A LITTLE BROWN, WHEN WE GET BACK TO WHAT JOE SAID, DO WE ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME INTO A PROPERTY THAT'S TOO LOW TO FILL IT INTO A LEVEL AREA? WELL, IF IT'S PART OF THE APPLICATION, ABSOLUTELY.

AND THE REASON I ASK THAT IS BECAUSE YEARS AGO IT HAPPENED WHERE I LIVED APPARENTLY AND MY POOR NEIGHBOR, HER LOT IS THAT MUCH LOWER BECAUSE OF THE FIELD THAT WENT IN AND SHE FLOODS CONSISTENTLY.

RIGHT? AND HE DOESN'T WELL, WHEN I SPOKE WITH, UH, PLANNING AND ZONING ABOUT WATER PROBLEMS, MY DAD TOLD THEM WHAT I WANTED TO DO, WHICH WAS PUT IN A SUMP PUMP AND RUN IT OUT, PUMP THE WATER OUT OF MY BACKYARD.

AND HE SAID, WELL, YOU CAN DO THAT, BUT YOU CAN'T TRENCH UNDER THE SIDEWALK.

YOU CAN CONNECT TO THE STORM DRAIN.

SO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS YOU HAVE TO POUR THE WATER ON THE SIDEWALK.

AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, IN JANUARY, OCCASIONALLY WE GET A FREEZING DAY, WHICH MEANS I'M GOING TO BE KILLING PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE'S GOING TO BE FROZEN WATER.

AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH OF A RESPONSE THAT I SAID, HOW ABOUT I JUST RAISE THE LEVEL OF MY BACKYARD AND DUMP THE WATER INTO MY NEIGHBOR'S YARD? THEY SAID, WELL, YOU CAN DO THAT, BUT IT WOULDN'T BE NICE.

YES, THAT'S TOTALLY A LEVEL.

WOW, YOU HAVE SO INTERESTING.

THIS, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO BUILD A BERM, IN ADDITION TO THE FACT THAT PHIL, UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S NOTHING LEFT TO FILL ANYMORE.

WITHIN REASON, THERE ARE VERY FEW, LOTS, THERE ARE A FEW ALONG THE RIVER AT UP, AND THE FEW BLOCKS DOWNTOWN WHERE EVERYTHING, INSTEAD OF DRAINING FROM THE BACKYARD TO THE STREET THERE, WE'VE GOT SOME INVERTED PLACES DOWNTOWN.

AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.

SO THE PONDING THING ISN'T AS MUCH OF AN ISSUE.

UM, DR.

JOE'S PARTIALLY CORRECT, IN MY OPINION, ON, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU CAN MOVE WATER.

UM, BUT IT IS A SOMEWHAT NON WALL ABIDING, MEANING OTHER LEGISLATION THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY SENDING ORDINANCE OR HBC RELATED TO INCREASE.

YOU GOT TO SAY THIS, RIGHT, BUT YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T CHANGE SOMEBODY ELSE'S DRAINAGE PATTERN DRASTICALLY.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR PROPERTY BOUNDARIES TODAY AT THE SAME HEIGHT, THEY ARE, THE CITY DIDN'T HAVE TO BUILD THAT WHOLE WELL, I MEAN, YOU CAN BUILD IT ALL UP AND YOU CAN, BUT YOU'VE GOT TO SLIP IT BACK DOWN ON YOUR PROPERTY TO BE AT THE SAME PLACE.

IT WAS WHEN YOU STARTED AT THE SAME RESULT, THEN THE WATER YOU CHANGE THE DRAINAGE BETTER.

SO THERE'S SOME SUBTLETIES THERE AND PROBABLY SOME LEGAL LEASES WOULD AFFECT THINGS.

BUT, UM, WHAT I REALLY THINK YOU GET GETTING THAT, AS YOU'VE MENTIONED A COUPLE OF TIMES ABOUT LANGUAGE, ABOUT BERMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED THAT.

UM, IN MY OPINION, YOU COULD CERTAINLY BUILD A BERM AS LONG AS IT WAS IN THE APPLICATION.

AND IT GOT APPROVED IN THE COA AND THOSE FIRMS MIGHT BE DIFFERENT.

LIKE YOU SEE THAT, I MEAN, A BURN COULD BE THREE INCHES FOR

[01:15:01]

IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE WHAT THAT VARIABLE.