Nov 02, 2021 Planning & Zoning

[1. Roll Call]

[00:00:06]

TO THE NOVEMBER REGULAR.

NOT EVEN UP HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE.

THE FIRST DAY.

THEN THE SECOND ITEM ON

[2. Approval of Minutes: 10.05.2021]

HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES? ARE THERE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU WOULD MAKE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN? WE HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT.

SECOND.

WE NEED A ROLL CALL FOR THEM.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.

THE THIRD ITEM

[3A. Stars & Stripes 4F, LLC./Thomas Engineering, P.A., are requesting subdivision final plan approval for “Tyler, Home on the Lake Phase Five, A Planned Unit Development” a 54-lot residential planned unit development (PUD). This section of the multi-phase development is located on a combined 11.49+/- acres in the R-10A Residential District. The site is located to the south of Gracie Farms Road and to the east of Washington Post Road (Ward 5).]

NARRATIVE IS REQUESTING THE FINAL SITE APPROVALS TYLER TYLER HOMES ON THE LAKE LAKE DEVELOPMENT LOCATED ON 54 U HAS RESIDENTIAL PLAN LOCATED IN THE PARK THAT A, THE LAND IS APPROXIMATELY 11,409 ACRES AND IS .

AND IT'S LOCATED TO THE SOUTH OF GRACIE FARMS ROAD AND TO THE EAST OF WASHINGTON POST.

WELL LOCATED IN WARD FIVE.

UH, WE HAVE A STAFF REVIEW THAT DEVELOPMENT CHAIR WENT OVER ALL THE TECHNICAL STATS AND DENOMINATORS ON OUR TANAY.

HUD.

EVERY CLOUD SIDE IS NOT SEVEN SQUARE FEET, BUT DESIGNATION OR THE STREETS STREETS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED IN THE SOUTHERN REGION.

QUITE A WHILE.

NOW YOU TELL US THAT PROVIDED BY THE CITY.

THERE'S YOUR SITE, VERY GREEN, UH, A COPY OF THE FINAL PLAN FOR PUTTING IN YOUR PACKET.

WE REVIEWED THE PLAN.

IT HASN'T MET ALL THE RULES, REGULATIONS OF A SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, AND THEN IT SATISFIED THE CRITERIA.

WE ARE RECOMMENDING THAT WE APPROVE THE FINAL SUBMISSION FOR KYLA ON THE LATE PHASE FIVE.

WE DID RECEIVE A BOND.

NADIA, JOHN, THANK YOU.

UM, AND IT'S BEEN, UH, APPROVED BY PUBLIC WORKS AND DELIS DEPARTMENT.

SO WE ARE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL.

EVERYTHING IS IN ORDER.

I DON'T KNOW WHY NOTHING IS WORKING.

OKAY.

UH, I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE AFRICAN TO SEE YOUR ALSO THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR, DO ANY MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD HAVE THE QUESTION AT THIS POINT, IF THE APPLICANT WISHES TO ADDRESS THE BOARD, HE MAY DO TO GO.

I SEE WE HAVE A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WISH TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS DEVELOPMENT, EITHER FOR OR AGAINST AT THIS POINT, THE EMOTION THROUGH EXCEPT THE DEVELOPMENT.

WE HAVE A MOTION HAS BEEN SECONDED.

NADIA EVOLVABLE REMEMBER THIS IS A FINAL APPROVAL.

UH, AND, UH, THIS DOES NOT GO BEFORE THE DON'T GET LOCKED UP,

[00:05:04]

[3B. A. Sydes Construction, Inc./Thomas Engineering, P.A., are requesting subdivision final plan approval for “Monitor Cape Phase One at Bluewater Rise, A Planned Unit Development” a 52-lot residential planned unit development (PUD). This section of the multi-phase development is located on a combined 17.55+/- acres in the R-8 Residential District. The site is located to the north of County Line Road and to the west of Old airport Road (Ward 3).]

AND IT'S PART OF A MULTI PHASE.

THIS PHASE IS OCCUPATED, UM, APPROXIMATELY 17 DOT FIVE, FIVE ACRES, ANY R EIGHT, UH, IS LOCATED TO MORE OF THE ROAD AND TO THE WEST OF ALL THE AIRPORT.

UM, THE APPROVAL WAS DONE IN 2022 OR 2022 PLAN AND THE ZONING BOARD MEETINGS.

UM, NOW THIS BOOK PROPOSALS, WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A WATER FLOW PROBLEM FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT, UM, YOU ARE IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING AN EASEMENT FROM SOMETHING CALLED, I BELIEVE THE FOREST STREET TRUST.

AND, UH, WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THAT EASEMENT? WE EXPECT THAT TO BE COMPLETED SO THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT PLAN HAS ADEQUATE, UH, WATER RAMP FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT STANDARDS.

RIGHT NOW IT'S 30% BELOW.

I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S OKAY AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW OR FOR THIS PHASE, BUT WE UNDERSTAND FROM THE CHIEF FIREBOARD HIMSELF AND SHOUT.

SO HE LOSES IT ON MYSELF, MATH WITH THEM.

AND WE WERE TOLD THAT THE WORK FLOW RATE IS NOT ADEQUATE FOR ACCEPTED NORMS. HOW IS THAT EASTMAN GOING WAS THE DIRECTOR.

SO WE'RE GO, WE'RE GOING TO DO A STAFF REVIEW AND THEN HAVE THIS AS PART OF OUR DISCUSSION IS I BELIEVE IT'S APPROPRIATE BECAUSE IT'S A BIG ISSUE STATE.

THE, I HAVE TO TAKE THIS PART OUT, OUT OF, OUT OF WATER RIGHT NOW BECAUSE MANY MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD CURRENTLY ARE NOT COMFORTABLE PROCEEDING APPROVING A DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT DOESN'T HAVE ADEQUATE WATER, ADEQUATE VIRUS.

OKAY.

I THINK I'D LIKE TO GO ON RECORD, AT LEAST SAYING WE SHOULD HAVE OUR STAFF REVIEW, FOLLOW NORMAL PROTOCOLS, HAVE OUR STAFF REVIEW.

AND THEN WHEN IT COMES BACK TO THE BOARD FOR DISCUSSION, THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME.

I FEEL TO HAVE THIS SORT OF DISCUSSION.

WELL, I CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR POINT IS STICKING TO REGULAR ORDER.

HOWEVER, THAT MIGHT NOT BE NECESSARY IF I WILL, IF HE WISHES THAT HE WANT THAT DONE.

WELL, I, WE FEEL THAT FROM A PROCEDURAL POINT OF VIEW, I THINK WE'RE OBLIGATED TO DO THAT.

OKAY, WELL, WE'LL DO THAT THEN.

AND THEN, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE FOR DISCUSSION AND HAVE THE SORT OF, THAT THAT'D BE MY PREFERENCE.

OKAY.

WELL, I CAN SEE THE QUICK OVERVIEW OF WHAT WE'RE DOING.

WE HAD THAT.

OKAY.

UM, SO AS THE CHAIR SAID, UM, LOCATED PSYCH, UH, MONITOR K PHASE ONE AND WHO I RISE 17 AND A HALF ACRES.

SO 93, 54 IS THE AVERAGE SQUARE FOOT IS A LOT.

WE HAVE SOME NEW STREETS BEING PROPOSED IN THIS ONE, AGAIN, ALL CERTIFIED CITY UTILITIES AREAS, YOUR SITE NICELY.

SO THE VISION WAS PROVIDED IN YOUR PACKET REVIEW.

THE ORIGINAL GENERAL PLAN WAS APPROVED IN 2018, RECEIVED SOME EXTENSIONS, UH, THAT WE GOT PASSED DOWN TO US FROM THE STATE.

SO IT DOESN'T EAT THE TWO YEAR REQUIREMENT FOR, UM, GENERAL PLAN APPROVAL TO FINAL APPROVAL.

WE HAVE REVIEWED IT FOR CONSISTENCY WITH OUR CODES AND MEETS ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS.

UM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL.

UM, AND WE A BOND IN HAND AND EVERYTHING HAS BEEN APPROVED BY PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.

EVERYTHING MEETS THE RULES AND REGS OF OUR ORDINANCE AND REQUIREMENTS FOR FINAL APPROVAL OF A PLAN, HUMAN DEVELOPMENT.

THE, UM, AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I SPOKE WITH JORDAN, WHO'S THE CITY ENGINEER FROM COUPLE IN THE LAST WEEK.

AND, UH, HE EASEMENTS TO FINALIZED.

HE EXPECTS TO BE UNDER CONSTRUCTION BY

[00:10:01]

OKAY.

I WOULD LIKE TO DIRECT THE QUESTION TOWARDS THAT EASEMENT.

UH, NORMALLY EASEMENTS ARE GRANTED RELATIVELY QUICKLY.

YOU'RE GOING TO GET AN EASEMENT FROM THE FOREST.

IS IT THE FOREST CREEK TRUST COASTAL LAND TRUST? I THINK.

AND WHAT IS THAT? IS THAT A SPECIAL, THE TRUST THAT REQUIRES MORE WORK PERHAPS, UH, UM, MS. MOSLEY SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS, UNFORTUNATELY I'M NOT VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE STATUS OF THIS EASEMENT.

DEFINITELY EASTMAN'S ARE GRANTED EITHER FROM THE DOD OR MAYBE THE COUNTY OR MAYBE THE CITY.

THIS IS A PRIVATE TRUST.

APPARENTLY THAT WHOSE PURPOSE IS PROBABLY A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION WITH THEIR PURPOSE BEING TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT.

WHAT IS THE SIZE OF THIS EASEMENT? NO, NO.

THE TERMS OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF WHAT YOU SEE, UH, WHERE THE WATER LINE IS ABOUT HOW MANY FEET IN THE WATER LINES ARE PUT IN SEVERAL FEET DEEP, I GUESS.

SO IT'S MATTER OF DIGGING A TRENCH AND TO CONNECT THE LOOP, TO CONNECT THE, UH, THE WATER SYSTEM.

SO THERE'S MORE FLOW RATE, MORE PRESSURE AS ESSENTIALLY THE DESIGN.

IS IT NOT AGAIN, I'M NOT HERE TO APPROVE WATERLINES EAST HINTS OR ANY KIND OF WATER DISTRIBUTION LEADS ME TO RULES OF THE ORDINANCE WITH THIS PROPOSAL.

DOES YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON WHAT CHAPTER 15 SAYS ORDINANCE? I CAN ANSWER THOSE ALL THAT IS BEYOND THE SCOPE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TONIGHT.

SO CAN YOU STIPULATE FOR THE RECORD THAT IF WE DO APPROVE THAT TODAY, BY THE TIME THEY DO SOMETHING, BY THE TIME THEY START LAYING FOUNDATIONS AND WHATNOT, A WATER EASEMENT AND THE WATER CORRECTION WOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETED OR NEARLY SILK COMPLETED, BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE STARTED AT IN DECEMBER OR WORKING THEIR WAY THROUGH EARLY JANUARY, I CAN STIPULATE THAT IT MEETS THE RULES OF THE STUFF THAT HAS NO ORDINANCE, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT, WHICH IS WHAT THIS BOARD HAS PURVIEW OVER.

YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PURVIEW OVER WATER, DISTRIBUTION, FLOW RATES, ALL THAT IS HANDLED BY DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS IN THE CITY.

ALL OF IT'S BEEN REVIEWED AND APPROVED.

AND, UM, THAT'S WHAT I CAN CONTROL.

YEAH.

TO STAND FROM THE FIRE MARSHALL DIRECTLY, WE'VE GOT THE FLOW RATE IS INADEQUATE.

SO PRESENTLY, DO WE HAVE, I MEAN, YOU'VE BEEN PRESENTED WITH FLOW TESTS TOO, I GUESS I'M, I'M, I'M CONFUSED.

YEAH.

SUDDENLY ELIZABETH AROUND MYSELF OR THAT WE WOULD CALL IT 30% UNDER THE, UH, ACCEPTED CAPACITY.

SO I GUESS MAYBE WHAT I WILL SAY.

I, I, I HEAR THE CONCERN FROM A PLANNING AND ZONING POINT OF VIEW, JUST NOT UNLIKE RETAIL APPLICANTS AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ALL THE TIME.

WE HAVE TO STAY WITHIN OUR PURVIEW.

UM, NO, UM, IF IT'S AN ISSUE OF SAFETY AND WE ARE CONVINCED OF THAT AND WE DO NOT HAVE A STAND AND THAT WE HAVE WHAT I CONSIDER A FLOOR SIGN OFF ON THE APPLICATION, IF A CRITICAL MEASURE SUCH AS THE FLOW RATE OF WATER IS INADEQUATE, THAT WOULD TRUMP, WELL, I HAVE TO FOLLOW IT'S A MATTER OF CONSCIENCE.

AND THEN AT THAT POINT YOU MIGHT LOOK INTO, UH, CLARIFY INADEQUATE.

UM, THAT'S WHAT I SPOKE TO THE FIRE CHIEF A FEW DAYS AGO, FIRE FLOW IS ADEQUATE.

UM, IT'S VERY CONSISTENT.

UM, I'M SURE YOU CLARIFY THAT, WHICH IS WHAT I WAS TOLD AND ALL THIS CONVERSATION.

AND, UM, SO INADEQUATE IS NOT THE CORRECT TERM TO USE.

UM, SO I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT ON A RECORD SINCE WE'RE PUTTING THINGS ON THE RECORD THAT ARE INCONSISTENT WITH CONVERSATIONS THAT I'VE HAD WITH DEPARTMENT HEADS AND THE FIRE CHIEF AND THE FIRE MARSHALL.

SO JUST SO YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY, AND THEN MR. CHAIR, I WOULD LIKE TO ELIMINATE THIS POINT.

THE WHAT IS BEFORE THE BOARD TONIGHT IS A FINAL SUBDIVISION PLAN AND THEIR BYLAW, WHICH WE'RE BOUND TO UPHOLD.

UM, THERE ARE CERTAIN CONSIDERATIONS FOR THIS BULLET AT THIS MOMENT, CONSIDERING THE STAGE IN THE PROCESS, RIGHT? AND THESE AREN'T SUGGESTIONS, THIS IS THE LAW.

AND TO DO ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THAT, THIS CONDITION IS WHERE WE'LL BE BREAKING THE LAW.

SO I WOULD STRONGLY ENCOURAGE THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD TO FOCUS THEIR ATTENTION ON

[00:15:01]

AND I THINK IT'S 1579 FEET.

AND THEN IF THERE'S SOME PART OF THAT SUBSECTION THAT THIS PLAN CAN FAILS TO SATISFY, THEN SUDDENLY DISCUSSION IS APPROPRIATE.

HOWEVER, IF YOU, IF YOU ANALYZE THE ELEMENTS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IN THIS PLAN AND FIND IT TO BE SUFFICIENT, I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONSCIENCE AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR RATION NOW, BUT I THINK THIS BOARD IS TASKED WITH APPLYING THE LAW.

AS IT RELATES TO THIS PARTICULAR SET OF FACTS.

I SPOKE TO JEFFERY.

I WANTED PERHAPS TO HAVE THE APPLICANT REMOVE HIS APPLICATION AT THIS TIME.

AND THEN WE DO WANT TO APPROVE THIS PLAN, BUT WE WANT TO APPROVE THIS PLAN IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT IS SAFE FOR THE PEOPLE THAT WILL BE LIVING IN THOSE HOMES.

WHAT I WAS ADJUST THAT WE DO TODAY IS TABLE IT.

AND AT THE NEXT MEETING, I THINK OUR DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES WOULD HAVE MORE TIME TO FINALIZE THIS EASEMENT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MONTHS NOW.

AND, UH, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE, THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS.

AND, UM, RIGHT NOW YOU TELL US THAT YOU'RE NOT PREPARED TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE STATUS OF HIS EASEMENT.

WE DO WANT TO APPROVE THE PLAN, BUT WE WANT TO POOP.

I FOUND THAT THIS CITY HAS A HISTORY OF A BAD FIRE.

UM, MY, MY ASSOCIATE'S SUNDAY WE'LL LOSE OUR WORK ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE ASHEVILLE NEAR WASHINGTON SQUARE.

WHAT ARE THE INFAMOUS TRIANGLE SHIRTWAIST FACTORY FIRE HAPPENED, WHERE YOU DON'T EVEN TIE AND THEN DO A STRING OF GRUNTS WITH DROPPING OUT AT NINE STORY WINDOWS, ESCAPE, THE FIRE.

WE DON'T WANT TO BE PARTY TO ANOTHER KIND OF DISASTER LIKE THAT.

AND THAT'S WHY THIS, UH, WHY I AM ASKING, UH, FOR SOME TIME TO GET THIS THING, IT'S A MATTER OF SAFETY AND A MATTER OF CONSCIENCE.

AND I DO NOT THINK IT'S UNREASONABLE TO TABLE THIS RESOLUTION FOR A MONTH.

SO WE GET SURE THAT THIS EASEMENT WILL BE PROCESSED BEFORE I'LL BE RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE NO GUARANTEE OR INSURANCES THEY'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS EASEMENT.

AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY MEANS THAT SUCH AS THIS IS, UH, TAKING SO MUCH TIME TO GET, IF I I'D LOVE TO ASK THE QUESTION.

SO WHAT IS, WHAT IS OUR OBLIGATION NOW THAT THIS SAYS THIS APPLICATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED RECEIVED BY THE BOARD IT'S ON THE AGENDA? WHAT IS OUR OBLIGATION TIME-WISE BEFORE WE HAVE TO ACT, IS IT 60 DAYS? I DON'T HAVE ANY ANSWERS IN 30 DAYS.

SO IT KIND OF BE THE SAME ANSWER.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO SAY.

SO, SO I HAVE AN EASEMENT IN PLACE, BUT I DON'T KNOW, CONSTRUCTION SCHEDULES.

AGAIN, IT'S OUTSIDE OF HER.

OKAY.

SO ALL THAT NOISE, KIND OF A SIDE.

WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY FROM A PROCEDURAL POINT OF VIEW, WE KIND OF HAVE TWO OPTIONS.

WE EITHER HAVE A MOTION TO, UH, DENY THIS APPLICATION.

WE VOTE ON THAT AND IF IT'S SUCCESSFUL, WE DID NOT WIN, WHICH I THINK IS UNFAIR TO THE ASSET.

GIVEN THAT THEY'VE MET ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAND USE OVER THIS, OR WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE, WE VOTE ON IT.

AND IF IT FAILS, THEN AT SOME SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER, WE'VE GOT ACT ON THIS TONIGHT.

I THINK TABLING DOESN'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE IF IN 60 DAYS WE HAVEN'T ACTED ON IT, THEN IT'S DEEMED APPROVED.

WELL, I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON TABLE.

AND WE DID A TABLING ATTENDED THE RACE ROLE DEVELOPMENT AND THE PARTIES INVOLVED .

AND THEN THE NEXT FEEDING WE APPROVED IT, THAT EVERYBODY WAS VERY HAPPY BECAUSE THEY INCREASE THE, THE GREEN GREEN SPACE.

THERE ARE TIMES THAT, UH, TABLING THINGS DOES WORK.

IT DOES GIVE BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT, TIME TO WORK OUT DIFFERENCES.

AND PART OF OUR, UH, PURVIEW IS WE ARE THE PLANS ONLY FOR THE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO DEVELOPMENT IN SUCH A WAY THAT IF I'M ALL TOMMY IN THE COMMUNITY.

SO THE DIFFERENCE WITH THAT IN PREVIOUS APPLICATION, IN MY OPINION, AND I WASN'T IN FAVOR OF TABLE IN THAT.

BUT THE DIFFERENCE WITH THAT APPLICATION WAS THAT THE AFRICANS HAD THE ABILITY TO AFFECT THE CHANGE FOR THAT APPLICATION THAT SOLVE THE PERCEIVED PROBLEM AND DOES NOT HAVE THAT ABILITY IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THIS PARTICULAR CASE IS NOT AN ISSUE OF APPEARANCES.

IT'S AN ISSUE OF PUBLIC SAFETY, PUBLIC SAFETY TRUMPS OF YEAH.

AND PUBLIC SAFETY IS IN THE REALM OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY FOLK, RIGHT

[00:20:01]

SO I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING, I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON, ON, ON WHAT THE CHIEF SAID, AND I'VE SPOKEN WITH HIM MANY TIMES IN, UH, AND THERE'S NO OTHER WATER PRESSURE IS NOT A PUBLIC SCENE.

SO, SO WHAT IF I, IF I MAY, MR. CHAIR HERE, HERE'S MY OPINION ON WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

I DON'T NECESSARILY DISAGREE WITH YOU IF WE'VE GOT A TRUE WATER PRESSURE PROBLEM.

AND I HAVEN'T SEEN THE FLOW DATA, IT DOESN'T MATTER, BUT CERTAINLY HE CAN GIVE ME THAT.

I DON'T KNOW THAT IT MEANS ANYTHING TO ME WITHOUT RUNNING THE HYDRAULIC CALCULATIONS.

I MEAN, IT GOES, IT DEPENDS ON DIAMOND OR PIPE, LENGTH OF LINE AND ALL THAT.

SO ALL THAT SIDE, I GUESS MY POINT IS PROCEDURALLY, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THIS APPLICATION TONIGHT, 60 DAYS WITHIN, WITHIN 60 DAYS.

SO IF WE DON'T ACT ON IT TONIGHT AND WE TABLE IT AND IT COMES TO FOREST NEXT MONTH, I FEEL LIKE, FEEL CERTAIN WE'LL BE HAVING THIS SAME DISCUSSION AGAIN, BECAUSE I'M CERTAIN THAT WE WON'T KNOW THE STATUS OF THIS EASEMENT.

TIME TO GO BACK TO 5G.

YOU CAN SAY, HELLO, WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS TO ONE PERSON AND SOMETHING ELSE TO ANOTHER TO SATISFY DON, NOTHING ELSE ALSO.

YEAH, BUT ALSO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING NEW THE APPLICATION, UH, YOU KNOW, THE APPLICATION, I DISAGREE WITH THAT TO THE APPLICATION.

SO IF WE HAVE A MOTION TO DISAPPROVE THIS APPLICATION, WE WOULD HAVE TO GIVE SOME GRANTS BASED ON LINDY'S ORDINANCE.

I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO THAT.

NO, I THINK WE CAN TABLE IT TO GIVE TO THE CITY AND THE STAFF MORE TIME TO GET THAT DATA TO US.

SO WE'RE MORE COMFORTABLE OUT OF, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE GAIN ANYTHING BY THAT, BUT IF THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD, BUT IF THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD CHOOSES TO VOTE ON AND APPROVE, UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF THAT, BUT, UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY IF THAT'S THE DECISION OF THE BOARD APPRECIATES WHEN COMES TO SAFETY AND PEOPLE'S LIVES, YOU'VE GOT DEVELOPMENT GOING ON THE END THERE BEFORE WHERE I COME FROM WESTCHESTER COUNTY, THE FORESTERS WERE PRIMARILY HAMLET IN THE 1980S, THERE WAS AN INSECT FLIGHT.

YOU SEE A LOT OF GROUND THERE.

IT'S A SOURCE OF CONCERN FOR THE MOVE FROM THE FOURTH FIRE NORTH OF NEW YORK CITY.

SO WE HAVE A LOT OF FULL FORESTRY AROUND THAT PROPERTY.

WE'VE HAD FOREST FIRES IN EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE FLOWERING FLOW ADEQUATE? AND YOU HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT OF SEVERAL HUNDRED PEOPLE LIVE IN ACROSS COUNTY LINE GROW WHERE IT'D BE HARD TO MAKE A FIRE BREAK.

I CAN SAY THAT.

WELL, I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS PROCEDURALLY, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

AND I WORKED ON DESIGN PROJECTS EVERY DAY.

I THINK GIVEN LOT OF ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN PROCEDURE.

OKAY.

SO I THINK WHAT I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO DO IS, I MEAN, WE CAN TALK UNTIL WE'RE BLUE IN THE FACE.

WE'RE NOT GONNA KNOW THE ANSWER TO ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS TONIGHT.

I THINK WE EITHER TABLE IT OR WE DON'T, OR WE APPROVE IT OR WE DON'T, OR YOU'RE NOT, OR WE DON'T BECAUSE THAT GIVES EVERYBODY THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE ON A SANDBAR.

MR. THOMAS, WILL YOU AWARE OF THIS PROBLEM? UM, WITH THIS BACK TO THE, UH, WATER FLOW RATE, WE HAVE ADVISORS AT ALL.

I DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN THROUGH EVERY PERMITTING PROCESS.

YOU CAN THINK OF THIS PROJECT WAS DESIGNED, WHICH PROVIDED A MODEL OF THE FLOWS TO THE CITY FOR THEIR REVIEW.

THIS IS THE FIRST I'VE HEARD OF ANY ISSUES OUT THERE, AND I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY ISSUES OUT THERE.

WE JUST TOOK THE SUBDIVISION.

ALSO THE PLANTS IN ORDER THE PROJECT PAVED, THEY WON'T START PULLING, BUILDING PERMITS IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS OUT THERE.

THE PEOPLE WITH HOUSES, UM, THE PUBLIC UTILITIES IS FINE WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN PUT OUT THERE.

I AM SIMPLY NOT AWARE OF THE FLOW PROBLEMS OUT THERE WHEN THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT, THE OTHER THING TOO, THAT EASEMENT I'M UP FOR ANOTHER WATER WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT IT IS OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDS OF THE SUBDIVISION.

AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A SUBDIVISION.

I DO KNOW THAT THERE IS SOME LONG RANGE PLANS TO DELIVER MORE WAR AND THAT SECTOR OF THE COUNTY OUT THERE, INCLUDING COLORS AND, AND WE WILL ARISE AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS, BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT RIGHT NOW WITH WE'RE UM, SOME MONTHS AGO, MR. TOM IS, WE HAD DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF PUBLIC WORKS, GAVE US, UM, REVIEWS.

PEOPLE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR RECORD, PACE OF DEVELOPMENT THAT'S BEEN GOING ON AND NEW BRANDING.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE ARE DIFFERENT

[00:25:01]

I AGREE WITH YOU A HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT DON'T MEET, MEET THAT.

AND THEY'RE AWESOME.

PRETTY MUCH TO BE AMAZED BY THE PUBLIC WORKS FOR YOU, TWO FOLKS DOWN THE ROAD TIMES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THEN IMPROVE THAT AS TIME GOES ALONG.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE HERE.

UM, W THE CASE THAT THE WATER RAPED THAT PRESENTLY IN THAT WAY, ACCORDING TO OUR MEETINGS THAT WE'VE HAD WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THAT'S NOT PART OF THE, I KNEW ALL THOSE GUYS PERSONALLY.

AND, AND USUALLY I'M THE FIRST ONE THAT GETS THE PHONE CALL.

AND I HAVE HEARD NOTHING ABOUT ANYTHING LIKE THAT OUT THERE.

I DON'T KNOW WHEN EXACTLY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WE'VE BEEN WITH THE WATERFALL.

RIGHT.

BUT THAT WAS, UH, SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT AND ON MEETING, UH, SPECIFICALLY ON MONARCH POINT, IT WAS A GENERIC KIND OF DEVELOPMENT IN THIS AREA AS IT PROCEEDS.

UM, IF THERE A DOUBT FOR THAT, IF THERE IS A PROBLEM, WHICH I DON'T THINK THERE IS, AND THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO GET SOLVED BY THE NET, THE THREE OF US ATTENDED THE BEADING.

AND HE SAID TO OURSELF THAT THE WATER CAPACITY IS 30% BELOW ACCEPTED RIGHT NOW.

I'M SORRY, EITHER DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

AND WE JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THE PAST COUPLE MONTHS AND, UH, I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY INVESTMENT OUT HERE.

I MEAN, RELATED TO PAVE UTILITIES ARE IN THE FILE, HAVING A FLARE.

I MEAN, IT'S ALL THERE.

AND ANOTHER 30 DAYS WOULD BE AN UNNECESSARILY DELAY IN MY MR. CHAIR.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IN THIS CONVERSATION.

IF YOU'RE CONSIDERING TABLING, THAT'S FINE, BUT IT MAY BE IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO CONNECT THE INFORMATION THAT YOU THINK YOU WANT TO OBTAIN TO ONE OF THE RELEVANT CONSIDERATIONS IN WHETHER YOU APPROVE THE, AND IF THE INFORMATION YOU'RE TRYING TO ATTAIN, ISN'T RELEVANT TO ONE OF THOSE CONSIDERATIONS, THEN MAYBE YOU'RE IN A POSITION TO MAKE A DECISION TO THEM.

OKAY.

SO W WHAT YEAR IS THIS GONNA AT THAT? THE VOTE? OKAY, WAIT, UH, FOR NEXT MONTH IS WE'RE REQUESTING THE PLANNING OF THE FALL EVENT.

AND YOU'RE GONNA JUMP TO WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT CONCERNING THE, UH, PLAN TO INCREASE THE FURNITURE ONCE THE LAND IS GOING TO BE NO, SIR, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING, WHAT I'M SAYING IN THIS CONVERSATION.

OKAY.

WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT, LET US LOOK AT WHAT THE RELEVANT CONSIDERATIONS ARE OR FINAL PLAT APPROVAL, FOR INSTANCE, OR THE LINES OF ALL STREETS AND ROADS ON THE BLACK WATER FREIGHTS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SUBSECTION LOT LINES, A LOT NUMBERS, WATER RATES, AND WATER CONSUMPTION, PEN, NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT CONSIDERATION, BUILDING THEM WITH RESERVATIONS.

ALL THE DIMENSIONS SHOULD BE TO THE NEAREST ONE 10TH OF A FOOT AND ANGLES TO THE NEAREST MINUTE ACCURATE LOCATION AND DESCRIPTION OF ALL MONUMENTS AND MARKERS.

THE LIST GOES ON.

IF YOUR REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IS RELEVANT TO ANY OF THOSE ITEMS, THEN YOU SHOULD PROBABLY CONSIDER TABLING THIS CONSIDERATION UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING IS YOU CAN OBTAIN THAT INFORMATION.

BUT IF THE INFORMATION YOU'RE TRYING TO OBTAIN IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER IN MAKING THE APPROVAL OF THE FINAL PLAN, THEN I THINK THIS CONVERSATION, WELL, PART OF THE CONSIDERATION, THAT'S WHERE THE GERALD CAN YOU, CAN YOU POINT TO WHERE THAT IS IN THE CODE AS IT RELATES TO THE FINAL PLANS, BUT THEN THAT MAY BE AN ISSUE FOR LAWMAKERS AND LEGISLATORS DOWN THE ROAD.

BUT THE JOB OF THIS BOARD IS TO APPLY THE LAW AS IT'S WRITTEN TONIGHT.

NOT AS WE HOPE OR WISH IT WOULD BE.

JEFF.

I JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION.

AND ON THE SEVENTH OF 10, SO, SO BEAR WITH ME HERE.

OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A CONCERN.

WE KNOW THAT, UM, IN YOUR OPINION, BASED ON YOUR CONVERSATION WITH THE CITY ENGINEER AND THE FIRE CHIEF, I KNOW THIS, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A FINAL ANSWER ON THIS ISSUE IN THE NEXT 30 DAYS IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION, BASED ON THOSE CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU'VE HAD AS THIS DEVELOPMENT MOVES ALONG, DO YOU SEE THIS BEING AN ISSUE? THIS I'M NOT GOING TO ASK A FLAT UP QUESTION, IS THIS GOING TO BE A SAFETY ISSUE DOWN THE ROAD, UH, WITHOUT THE NECESSARY IMPROVEMENTS AT SOME POINT, OBVIOUSLY, UM, IT WILL BE A SAFETY ISSUE, BUT THE WAY THIS BOARD SEES SINCE JOHN WAS ALLUDING TO THIS BOY SEES THE VERY BROAD THIS PROJECT STARTED SEVEN YEARS AGO.

AND, UM, ALL THAT WAS ALL THERE, IT STARTS WITH CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CITY ENGINEER.

[00:30:01]

UM, SO WHERE HERE, ALL THAT ALL THOSE ANSWERS HAVE HAVE BEEN GIVEN RIGHT AT THIS SUBDIVISION WILL NOT CREATE ANY UNSAFE CONDITIONS IN ANY OF OUR UTILITIES OR ANY OF OUR FIRE AND POLICE COVERAGE.

OKAY.

SO WE'RE ON TOP OF THAT.

OTHER DEPARTMENTS ARE LOOKING AT THAT CONSTANTLY.

OKAY.

THEY LOOK AT GROWTH PATTERNS, WE'RE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT FIRE STATIONS IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CITY.

OKAY.

SO THAT ALL THAT HAPPENS YEARS IN ADVANCE, BEFORE WE GET HERE, AS JOHN WAS SAYING, THE STREETS ARE IN THE UTILITIES OR IN THE LOT LINES ARE THERE, UM, THIS FINAL APPROVAL, IT GIVES THEM THE AUTHORITY TO SELL A LOT TO, UH, TO A PERSON SO THEY CAN LIVE IN A HOME.

UM, IT WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TO, UM, REDUCE ANY KIND OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

NO ONE IS GOING TO BE JUMPING OUT OF BUILDINGS ON FIRE.

UM, AND, UH, AS, UH, BECAUSE OF THIS PLAN, NOW SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, PRIOR ON, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT, BUT FROM THIS POINT WHERE WE'RE, WE'RE NOT REALLY TALKING ABOUT IT AS THE ATTORNEY SAID OUR CONVERSATION, THERE'S NO AMOUNT OF INFORMATION THAT I CAN GIVE YOU THAT HAS ANY BEARING ON WHERE WE ARE HERE TODAY.

JEFF, AND THOSE CONVERSATIONS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS PART OF THAT, UH, THE ESTIMATE OF HOW FAST IT'S GOING TO BE DEVELOPED.

YES, IT GETS DEVELOPED FASTER.

WHAT HAPPENS, UM, WHILE WE'RE ALREADY AHEAD OF THAT, RIGHT? SO THE LOOPS, I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE CONCERN.

WE UNDERSTAND WE'LL ASSUME THAT EVERYTHING WAS, UH, WAS ALL CALCULATED FOR X AMOUNT OF YEARS.

AND NOW IT'S HALF THAT.

AND PART OF THE X AMOUNT OF YEARS WAS THAT, AND IT'S GONE.

IT WILL BE ON THE CONSTRUCTION BY THE GANG OF THE YEAR.

BUT THE POINT I'M MAKING IS IT'S REALLY NOT THE SAME AS WHAT YOU ORIGINALLY AGREED ON.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ORIGINALLY WE SAID, IT'S GONNA TAKE 10 MONTHS TO THE ORIGINALLY, I GUESS, TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION ORIGINALLY, THAT BORDERLINE WAS 10 YEARS OUT AND NOW IT'S TWO MONTHS OUT.

RIGHT? SO AGAIN, HAS BEEN WORKING ON FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE THAT.

AND WHEN IT CAME UP, HE'S LIKE, YEAH, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON IT.

AND I'M WORKING ON ONE FINAL EASEMENT WITH THE COASTAL CONSERVANCY TO GET THROUGH THE PARCEL.

SO IT WAS IN, OR IT WAS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS FOR A YEAR.

I HAD, I ENDED UP, I WISH YOU JUST HEAR WHAT I'M SAYING, I'M ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS, BUT YOU CAN'T, YOU GOTTA BE ASKING ME THE SAME THING.

I JUST HAVE ONE OF THE FOLLOWING.

I WAS LISTENING.

I'M TAKING EVERYTHING IN THAT.

YOU'RE SAYING MY, MY LAST QUESTION, THAT'S KIND OF A CAVEAT TO THE FIRST PERSON I HAVE.

SO I KNOW, I KNOW JORDAN'S CLOSING THE FINAL LOOP.

YEAH.

UM, I THINK THE BIGGEST CONCERN OFF OF HONESTLY, WHICH GET WITH US IS WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THE LOOP IS CLOSED IN AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF TIME, IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION, DO YOU THINK THE LOOP IS GOING TO BE CLOSED? AND I WAS RAISING UP, OKAY.

THEY HAVE TO TRUST THAT.

RIGHT.

AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT'S, THAT'S HARD TO DO , THAT'S HOW GROWTH HAPPENS IN THE CITY.

I THINK WE ARE ALL SAYING THE SAME THING.

AND THAT BASICALLY IS, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG, MR. THOMAS, WITH WHAT YOU'VE DONE, I'M SURE IT'S GOING TO BE A FABULOUS DEVELOPMENT.

THE PROBLEM WE HAVE IS WITH THE CITY, WHEN WE TALKED WITH THE FIRE CHIEF, HE SAID, WE WANT 1000 CFM RIGHT NOW IN THIS AREA, WE HAVE ABOUT 725 TO 750 CFM.

IT IS WAY LOWER.

IT IS NOT CRITICAL YET, BUT IT WILL BECOME THAT WAY.

THAT'S WHAT GOT US THINKING.

AND I THINK IF YOU HEARD THAT YOU WOULD THINK TOO, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SUBDIVISION.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE REALLY AFTER IS A REASSURANCE FROM THE CITY THAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE ADEQUATE WATER FLOW TO PREVENT A MASSIVE FIRE.

THAT'S OUR MAIN CONCERN.

AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.

I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

WELL, I KNOW ABOUT THE FIRE MARSHALL FORMS, AND I KNEW WHAT WAS IN THE CODE AS ALTERNATIVES TO THE VARIOUS THINGS.

AND I DO KNOW THAT THE CITY, SINCE WE CAME IN WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT HAS BEEN WORKING ON A PLAN TO INCREASE THE WATER FLOWS OUT THERE, WHICH THEY WILL EVENTUALLY IMPLEMENT.

AND IT CAN

[00:35:01]

IT'S ALSO WHAT'S IN OUR AGREEMENT WITH THEM.

AND IT'S ALSO WHAT WAS REPRESENTED TO THE STATE.

BUT I'M MODEL DOESN'T SHOW WHAT YOU JUST SAID, THE MODEL THAT WE RAN.

AND, UM, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A MODEL THAT WE USED GOOD SCIENTIFIC ENGINEERING JUDGMENT.

AND WHEN WE RUN THESE MODELS BASED ON ACTUAL FLOWS THAT WE WANT AT THE TIME WE DID A MODEL, THIS MODEL IS ONLY A COUPLE OF THREE YEARS OLD.

THE CITY SIGNED OFF ON IT.

THEY SIGNED OFF ON THE PERMITS AND EVERYTHING.

MY CLIENTS IS ENTITLED TO HIS DEVELOPMENT HERE.

THE FLOWS WILL GET WORKED OUT AND I CAN GO TO AND PLACES IN THE CITY.

AND I CAN BARELY GET 300 GALLONS A MINUTE OUT OF SOME OF THOSE HYDRANTS.

AND THE CITY KNOWS THAT, AND EVENTUALLY THEY WILL WORK ON IT AND IMPROVE IT.

THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE DEVELOPMENTS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CHIEF BOY TOLD US THAT OUR MEETING WAS THAT HE THOUGHT THAT DEVELOPMENT WOULD NOT BE WHERE IT IS CURRENTLY.

THOSE WERE SEEN MUCH QUICKER THAN THEY OTHERWISE THOUGHT THAT THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE MORE TIME TO DEAL IT.

SO THAT'S WHY I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT SOME OF THESE MEMBERS WITH THE FRANKS ON A LITTLE BIT.

AND THEN, SO IF I MAY, MY POINT IS 30 DAYS, ISN'T GOING TO DO THAT.

NO, BUT 30 DAYS IS GOING TO GIVE US MORE INFORMATION.

WHAT THE DATA OF THIS EASEMENT IS GOING TO GIVE US MORE REASSURANCE THAT WHEN WE ARE VOTED TO APPROVE IT TO THAT, UM, IT'S NOT GONNA BE AN UNSAFE ISSUE.

WE DON'T KNOW.

I, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT AND THAT'S NOT THE DEVELOPERS.

UH, IT'S NOT AS RELEVANT IF WE THINK THERE'S A SAFETY HERE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND , AND THEN A COUPLE OF MONTHS AND ADVISE THEM, I KNOW THAT THERE WERE SOME , YOU MAY VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE, BUT I FEEL WE ARE OBLIGATED TO ACT ON THIS ITEM.

WE'RE GOING TO ACT ON IT FOR 30 DAYS.

IS THAT AFFECT YOUR, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE GAIN BY DOING THAT.

I THINK WE HAVE A VALID APPLICATION THAT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAND USE ORDINANCE.

I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS OF ITS FLAW.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THE APPLICATION IS NOT WELL, THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT WATER IN THIS .

I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN ARGUE WITH YOU ON THIS DOG.

AND SO I, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT AT THIS POINT, LET'S AGREE TO DISAGREE THAT PROCEDURALLY WE ARE REQUIRED TO ACT ON THIS BY WALL.

I DON'T THINK WE ARE.

JUST TOLD US THAT WE HAVE TO.

OKAY.

SO LET'S, I WOULD, I WOULD REQUEST THAT WE ASK FOR A MOTION TO TABLE TO DISAPPROVE OR TO APPROVE, AS I SUGGESTED IS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A MOTION.

AND, UM, WELL, AS CHAIR, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION.

SO OKAY.

WE ARE AT A POINT TO DO THAT.

I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE THAT THIS CONVERSATION, THIS DISCUSSION HAS TAKEN US ANY FURTHER WITHIN NOW.

WE'RE NOT GAINING ANY KNOWLEDGE WITH THIS.

AND SO IF I WERE TO TAKE ONE AND MAKE SURE THAT RC ENGINEER HERE DID NOT REALIZE IT A PROBLEM.

WELL, I THINK, NO, I THINK YOU MISREPRESENTING WHAT MR. THOMAS HAS SAID.

I THINK WHAT MR. THOMAS HAS SAID IS BASED ON HIS CALCULATIONS, THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM.

AND HE WASN'T GETTING THE INFORMATION FROM THE FIRE.

JEFF CAN MAKE ONE COMMENT.

SO OBVIOUSLY, OBVIOUSLY WE KNOW THIS IS NOT THE LAST SECTION OF BLUE WATER WISE.

UM, SPEAKING WITH MR. THOMAS, OBVIOUSLY THE NEXT PHASE IS GOING TO BE COMING IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS.

I THINK BASED ON OBVIOUSLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO IMPROVE RIGHT HERE OR DISAPPROVE, I DON'T THINK WE CAN, WE CAN DISAPPROVE IT IF IT'S MET ALL THE WICKETS, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT'S, IT'S BEEN TOLD TO US THAT THE WATER THING IS NOT AN ISSUE.

OKAY? THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, BUT WHAT I, WHAT I AM GOING TO SUGGEST IS THAT AS THE NEXT BLUE WATER RISE, THE NEXT SECTION OF BLUE WATER RISE COMES UP.

I WOULD LIKE TO MAYBE GET A LITTLE BIT OF MORE CLARITY ON, ON

[00:40:01]

I MEAN, I, I THINK THAT'S MORE THAN ADEQUATE.

OBVIOUSLY THE BOARD IS NOT GONNA, THIS IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY NECESSARILY, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO PUNISH THE DEVELOPER FOR THIS PARTICULAR PHASE, BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE ADDRESSED IN 30 DAYS OR 60 DAYS.

THIS IS GOING TO BE ADDRESSED.

IT'S GOING TO HAVE THE SAME ARGUMENT.

IT'S GOING TO BE OVER THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORDINANCE.

THAT'S IT? I THINK WE PUSHED THEM ON EVERYTHING WITH THE CITY AND THEIR ABILITY TO GET THAT WATER LOOP IN.

AND WE'RE NOT HEARING ANYTHING OTHER THAN MAYBE AT THIS POINT.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM WAS.

PEOPLE THAT HONESTLY, I MEAN, I WAS VERY CLEAR AND I SAID, IF BY THE END OF THIS YEAR OR THE BEGINNING OF MAY SHOW THAT WE CAN CONSTRUCTION, HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO COMPLETE? I DIDN'T ASK THAT QUESTION.

HOW ABOUT WE FIND THAT OUT? THE NEXT MEETING I ACTUALLY WENT BACK AND PRINTED IT OUT FOR MYSELF, ME 10 COPIES, STILL A FUCKING BOY QUICKLY.

I REMEMBER IN JUNE OR JULY WITH THE MINUTES WE HAD MR. HUGHES, I BELIEVE HIS ENGINEER IN THE CITY CAME IN AND HE WAS ASKED BADLY, DO WE HAVE ADEQUATE WATER? HE SAID, YO, WE HAVE ENOUGH, UH, WASTEWATER, SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT, AND ALSO IN A PORTABLE WAR TO, UH, GO TO 2016 AND INTROSPECT, UH, THE FOLLOWING MONTH.

AND IT'S IN PUBLIC RECORD.

I WAS GOING TO MENTION NAMES, BUT IT'S ENOUGH.

ALL THE DIRECTOR, NOT MINUTES IS A, I GUESS THAT PUBLIC RECORD SECTION.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE IF I SAY ANYTHING THAT MR. HILL CAN DO, I THINK THERE'S A FIRE FIRE MARSHALL RIGHT IN THIS ROOM.

AND HE SAID, UM, AND MR. BLACK CHAIRMAN ASKED HIM, WE HAVE ADEQUATE WATER SUPPLY.

NOW HE DID.

HE'S A TOTALLY INACCURATE WHAT SPRINTER APPROVED.

HOPEFULLY THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

AND HE SAID NO.

AND SO HE SAID, AND HE MENTIONED, HE PLACES LIKE BLUE WATER RICE, BUT I KNOW MR. THOMAS, WHO'S A RESPECTED ENGINEER IN HIS TOWN.

BEEN INVOLVED IN ALL OF THE, UH, MOST OF THE, MANY OF THE CELEBRATIONS ARE GOING UP NOW AS A REALTOR.

I LIKE THESE SUBDIVISIONS, BUT, UH, I DON'T, I DIDN'T SEEM SAFE TOO, BUT THAT'S, WHAT'S CONFUSING.

WE HEARD ONE THING FROM THE CITY ENGINEER AND ANOTHER THING FROM THE FIRE MARSHALL AND THESE PEOPLE WENT ON THEIR OWN, NOT THEIR OWN.

WE TOLD THEM TO GO OUT AND THEY ACTUALLY TALKED TO THE FIRE CHIEF WAS IT, OR THE BEFORE.

AND I AGREE NOW WITH TRAVIS, I DON'T KNOW HOW HE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE TABLING IT, BUT IT PUTS THEM IN A TERRIBLE POSITION.

BUT I DON'T THINK ANYTHING SHOULD MOVE ON FROM HERE.

POINT THAT FOREVER FOR ME, FROM HERE ON, WITHOUT ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES WITH THE FIRE, MARSHALL BROUGHT UP TO US.

AND UNFORTUNATELY WHEN WE PUSHED THINGS ON TO ALL OF THEM AND THEY DON'T ALWAYS TAKE OUT SUGGESTIONS.

AND LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, UH, ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO, I THINK RIGHT BEFORE I COME ON THE COMMITTEE, THERE WAS A THING ABOUT THE, UM, I'M WASTING YOUR TIME.

I'M SORRY.

I FINISHED UP VERY QUICKLY.

THERE WAS THE THING ABOUT THE TURNAROUNDS AND SUBDIVISIONS, AND WE ACTUALLY ASKED THEM TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT WHEN THEY VOTED AND THEY JUST PUSHED THAT ASIDE, I BELIEVE.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

SO WHAT IS THE STUFF? WHAT IS THIS COMMITTEE, ACTUALLY, WHATEVER WE REPRESENT, BECAUSE WE SEEM TO BE A SCULPTOR, SORRY.

AND, UH, AND PUSHING IT ON.

AND THEN, UH, SOMETIMES THEY DON'T EVEN CARE WHAT WE SAY.

SO I THINK A PLANNING AND ZONING COMMITTEE SHOULD BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT, A BOARD OR SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAT'S HITTING OFF THE SUBJECT.

BUT, UH, I SORTA BELIEVE IF WE COULD GET TO TRY TO SAY, I'M IN FAVOR OF PUSHING ON THAT, THEN DO THIS THING.

AND, UH, BUT IN THE PAST WE HAVE TO HOLD A HARDER LINE.

SO, SO I'M GOING TO BE HONEST THEM.

THIS IS JUST MY THOUGHT, BUT OBVIOUSLY, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT THE FINAL PHASE OF BLUE, OUR RISE.

I THINK AS BLUE WATER RISE GOES ON, I THINK THE MORE MICRO SCOPING WE DO TO ENSURE FUTURE PHASES OF THIS, THAT THEY DO HAVE THE ADEQUATE WATER SUPPLY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO REQUIRE.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE NO REASON NOT TO DOUBT THE CITY ENGINEER.

I JUST, I DON'T HAVE A REASON TO DOUBT WHAT HE'S SAYING.

I ALSO DON'T HAVE A DOUBT TO DOUBT, YOU KNOW, MR. THOMAS, HOWEVER, IT IS A CONCERN.

IT'S A VALID CONCERN.

UM, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE US APPROVE THIS, BUT THE NEXT BUTTON, BY THE TIME IN THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS, WHEN THE NEXT PHASE OF BLUE WATER RISE COMES AROUND, WE NEED SOME ANSWERS.

AND I THINK THAT'S A FAIR, THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION.

[00:45:01]

WELL, IT'S GOING TO .

I MEAN, IS THAT, I MEAN, IS THAT, IS THAT A FAIR ENOUGH? AWESOME.

I THINK THAT'S TERRIBLY LONG BECAUSE WHAT JEFF IS TELLING US, THE, THE ONLY IMPEDIMENT RIGHT NOW TO COMPLETE THAT LOOP IS THIS, UM, EASEMENT THAT THE CITY HAS TO GET EXACT CORRECT.

THAT THE FINAL STAGE OF THE MOVE IS CORRECT, WHICH MAY BE DONE BY NOW.

BUT IN THE LAST I TALKED TO JORDAN, WHAT ABOUT A WATER TOWER? TH THE MATTER, SORRY, THE MATTER BEFORE US REMAINS, WE HAVE AN APPLICATION BEFORE US FOR A FINAL PLAN, UH, APPROVAL.

THERE'S NO BLOOD STUFF.

IF WE HAVE AN APPLICATION WE HAVE BEFORE I MADE MY POINT WHAT TRAVIS IS ARGUING, WE APPROVED THE PLAN AS SUBMITTED, BUT BEFORE IT COMES BEFORE US, IT, THEN BY THAT TIME, HOPEFULLY THE EASEMENT WILL BE FOR WHENEVER WE GO TO THE WARD.

AND THAT WAS SATISFIED WITH THOSE PEOPLE AFTER THE SURGERY.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

AND SO THAT'S A DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER TIME, NOT FOR THIS APPLICATION, WE ARE BOUND TO ACT ON THIS.

THE ONLY SHOP GETS BY LAW TO ACT ON THIS APPLICATION.

I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES THE ATTORNEY CAN SAY THAT.

AND I CAN SAY THAT WE HAVE , WE NEED TO GET SOME WAY TO MOVE FORWARD FOR THE FUTURE AS WELL.

LET'S GO A QUESTION ON THIS AND LET'S WELL, WHAT DO WE DO LIKE TO REQUEST A MOTION I'M PREPARED TO MAKE ELECTION I'LL GO.

WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? RIGHT? WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHTS? EXACTLY.

IF WE ARE, I CONSIDER THIS APPLICATION FLOOR, BECAUSE IT WASN'T ACCURATE ABOUT THE WAR, BUT SAFETY IS DEVOLVEMENT.

WOULD YOU EXPRESS ANY RESERVATIONS GOING FORWARD NOW THAT YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH THE WATER FLOW, RIGHT.

AND ANOTHER SIMILAR APPLICATION TO US IS STILL WORKING ON GETTING AN EASEMENT.

YEAH.

WOULD I BE HAVING THIS SAME DISCUSSION ABOUT A FUTURE PHASE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT? IT'S NOT THE RIGHT.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT.

ABSOLUTELY NOT THIS SCOTCH.

AND WE DIDN'T HAVE OPPOSITION, NOT IF IT MEETS A LAND USE ORDINANCE.

THAT'S MY POINT.

IF YOU'RE FORCED TO VOTE FOR A, UM, SO PART OF THIS PROCESS, IT GOES THROUGH THE DEPARTMENTAL REVIEW.

NOW YOU'RE INTERRUPTING ME.

SO AS PART, PART OF THIS PROCESS IS WE, THAT GOES DEPARTMENTAL REVIEW FOR ALL OF THE CITY DEPARTMENTS REVIEW IT.

THEY PROVIDE A REPORT TO US.

WE HAVE TO BASE OUR DECISIONS OFF OF THAT INFORMATION.

I'M NOT DISAGREEING BY THE WAY, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS ONE OF THOSE DEPARTMENTS.

YEAH.

AND, AND, AND, AND, UH, HE, THEY THOUGHT THE DEVELOPMENT WOULD TAKE MUCH LOWER, LONGER.

THEY, THEY WENT OUT THERE AND ACTUALLY CHECKED THE FLOOR.

RIGHT.

THEY DISCOVERED IT WAS TOMORROW.

WELL, WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY GONNA BE TIMETABLE WHEN THESE DIFFERENT THINGS WERE DISCOVERED, BUT WE KNOW AS IT STANDS TODAY, IF THEY BUILD THAT CONSTRUCTION, WE'D BE TATTED TODAY AND THEY DON'T GET THE EASEMENT THROUGH, IT'S GOING TO BE ON SITE.

SO I THINK FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, IF THE CITY HAS, HAS A DESIGN IN PLACE FOR THIS PROJECT, AND WE'RE WAITING ON AN EASEMENT, HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN MY WORLD.

UM, I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO QUALMS ABOUT APPROVING THIS APPLICATION IN THAT REGARD TO MY FACE, THAT YOU HAVE NO QUALMS OF PROVING SOMETHING THAT IS INHERENTLY DANGEROUS AND PEOPLES, I THINK THAT'S A, MIS-CHARACTERIZATION THAT ISN'T THE EQUIVALENT EITHER.

I MEAN, I THINK IT IS, BUT BESIDE THE POINT, UH, I I'M PREPARED TO MAKE A MOTION IF YOU'RE PREPARED TO CALL FOR ONE.

OKAY.

IF I UNDERSTOOD YOU CORRECTLY, IS THAT AS LONG AS THE PAPERWORK, THE NORM FOR IN FARGO, THEY'RE WILLING TO ACCEPT THEM.

SO IT'S, IT'S A CAN TOO, A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN CITY DEVELOPMENT, CITY PLANNING.

SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ONE SMALL PIECE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A, A 50 TO LOCK A RESIDENTIAL PLAN, NEEDED DEVELOPMENT.

IT'S ONE SMALL PIECE AND THE CITY HAS MULTIPLE PLANS GOING ALL OVER ALL IN.

SO ONE OF THEM HAPPENS TO BE A WATERLINE EXTENSION TO COMPLETE A LOOP FOR

[00:50:01]

IT ALMOST SOUND LIKE IT'S THE EQUIVALENCY OF SOMEBODY TRYING TO PUT ALUMINUM SIGNING ON THAT STORE ACCOUNTS DOWN, DOWN.

UH, I DON'T THINK I MADE THAT, UH, ANALOGY, BUT I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THERE ARE THINGS, THERE ARE ALWAYS PLANS IN THE WORKS, RIGHT? FOR ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

I MEAN, WHETHER IT BE STORMWATER, WHETHER IT BE ANYTHING ELSE.

AND I'LL KEEP CIRCLING BACK TO THIS, BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT HERE IN THIS ORDINANCE, THAT WE ARE REQUIRED, THIS PLANNING, ZONING BOARD TO ACT ON AN APPLICATION WHEN IT COMES BEFORE US.

SO WE CAN CHOOSE TO DISAPPROVE IT.

IF IT DOESN'T MEET THE, UH, LAND USE ORDINANCE, WE CAN APPROVE IT IF IT DOES, AND WE HAVE THE OPTION TO TABLE IT, BUT WE HAVE A LIMITED PERIOD OF TIME TO DEAL WITH THAT 60 DAYS.

AND SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS THIS APPLICATION MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF LAND USE ORDINANCE.

AND THERE IS NO REASON FOR US TO DO THAT.

I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS.

I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE CONCERNS, BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS APPLICATION FOR ON ITS MERITS THIS FAULT, MULTIPLE, UM, IF IT BEING APPROVAL PLAN AND STUFF, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE CONCERNED ABOUT THE INHERENT SAFETY IS THAT THE PROJECT BASED ON WHAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TOLD US DIRECTLY, IF THERE IS A DISASTER DOWN A RIDER, THE HYPOTHETICAL WIRES THAT ARE WE IN ANY WAY, PERSONALLY, CULPABLE FOR ANY DISASTER THAT HAPPENS IN THESE A, THE BOARD WHO WOULD BE VOTING TO APPROVE IT BASED ON THE PAPERWORK BEING ACCEPTED.