[00:00:01]
SO YOU READY TO GO? YES.I'LL HIT THIS FOR CALLING A SECOND.
I CALL TO ORDER THE JULY 5TH C OF NEW BERN PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MEETING.
[1. Roll Call]
GET A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? YES, SIR.[2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
APPROVAL OF MINUTES.IT'S THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD.
SHOULD WE GO THROUGH THESE ONE AT A TIME OR, OH, WE GOT QUESTIONS.
GOD, I DO HAVE A CORRECTION, OR I THINK IT'S A CORRECTION ON JUNE 6TH, 9 1 18.
DO YOU HAVE YOUR SETH? I DIDN'T PRINT THAT ONE LINE OR THAT PAGE.
WHICH SIDE IS THAT, MARGIE? THE LAST ONE.
THERE'S A, I ALREADY THE LINE WHEN IT CAME.
GUYS, THAT THIS SENTENCE, THAT LAST SENTENCE WAS, IT DOESN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE.
SO WE'LL APPROVE THAT ALL THE OTHERS EXCEPT FOR THAT CERTAINLY CORRECT WITH THE, WITH THE DIRECTION, WITH THE CORRECTION.
I THINK YOU CAN DO IT AS A BATCH.
SO I MOVE, WE APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 5TH, 2021.
APRIL 6TH, 2021, MAY 4TH, 2021 AND MAY 2ND, 2023.
YEAH, WITH AS, AS IT WOULD BE AMENDED.
ANY DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
UH, ITEM NUMBER THREE, NEW BUSINESS,
[3.A. “ATHENS ACRES, PHASE TWO” FINAL PLAN Parcel Identification: #8-240-27000 Number of Lots: 23 Location: Off Medina Spirit St. Zoning: R-10A Property Owners: Phoenix Derby Park, LLC Applicant: John Thomas Engineering]
UH, ITEM A, ATHENS ACRES, PHASE TWO.THE APPLICANT'S, UH, PHOENIX DERBY PARK, LLC.
AGAIN, THE PROJECT IS ATHENS ACRES, PHASE TWO.
THIS IS FORMALLY KNOWN AS DERBY PARK, PHASE SEVEN.
THE SITE IS LOCATED OFF MEDINA SPIRIT STREET, WHICH IS LOCATED OFF OF, OR AT THE TERMINUS OF ELIZABETH STREET.
EXISTING ZONING IS R 10 A AND THIS PARTICULAR SITE IS 10.04 ACRES, APPROXIMATELY 24, OR EXCUSE ME, 23 LOTS ALTOGETHER, A LITTLE OVER FOUR ACRES, OPEN SPACE, LITTLE OVER AN ACRE OF DEDICATED RIGHT AWAY.
AND CITY OF NEW BERN UTILITIES, UM, ARE UTILIZED ON SITE.
WE'VE GOT THE AREA HERE, AS YOU CAN SEE, WHERE, UM, ELIZABETH AVENUE COMES TO AN END.
AND WE'VE GOT THE 23 LOT FINAL PLAT BEFORE YOU.
THE PROJECT RECEIVED GENERAL PLAN APPROVAL FROM THE CITY OF NEW BERN PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD ON AUGUST 5TH, 2021.
STAFF'S REVIEWED THE PROPOSED SUBDIVISION FINALS AT ALL THE TECHNICAL AND LEGAL REQUIREMENTS FOR FINAL SUBDIVISION PLAN APPROVAL.
THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS HAS CONFIRMED THAT THE STANDING LETTER OF CREDIT IS SUFFICIENT TO COVER THE OUTSTANDING IMPROVEMENTS.
THEREFORE, STAFF HAS NO OBJECTION TO FINAL SUBDIVISION PLAN APPROVAL OF ATHENS'S ACRES, PHASE TWO.
UH, THE APPLICANT IS, UH, HERE WITH US TONIGHT.
JOHN THOMAS, REPRESENTING THE SUBDIVISION IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS FOR HIM.
IT'S THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD.
AS, UH, CITY STAFF COMPLETED THEIR INSPECTIONS OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND AS INSTALLED, FIND EVERYTHING TO BE ACCEPTABLE.
IS THIS ONE THAT WE'RE GONNA NEED THE CONSISTENCY WORKSHEET? NO, SIR.
JUST THAT WE'RE GOING, WE'RE GONNA FIGURE THIS ALL OUT TOGETHER.
UM, THEN, UH, WHAT IS THE PLEASURE OF THE BOARD? MAKE A MOTION.
[00:05:01]
DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR JOHN? DO YOU KNOW WHO THE BUILDER'S GONNA BE? I'M, DO YOU KNOW WHO THE BUILDER WILL BE? BUILDER.[3.B. LAND USE ORDINANCE TEXT AMENDMENTS Code Sections: Section 15-416 “Required conformity to dimensional regulations; exceptions”. Section15-417 “Off-street parking]
THREE B, LAND, NEW LAND USE ORDINANCE, TEXT AMENDMENTS.SO WE, THIS ITEM HERE, WE HAVE, UH, SECTIONS 15, 4 16, AND SECTIONS 15, 4 17.
THESE SECTIONS WERE INADVERTENTLY DELETED, INADVERTENTLY DELETED FROM THE ORDINANCE DURING SOME UPDATES BACK IN DECEMBER OF 2022.
THE, UH, THESE ARE PART OF THE HPC CODE.
HPC VOTED UNANIMOUSLY TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL TO ADOPT THE CHANGES OF SECTION 15 4 16 AS PREPARED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
YOU'VE GOT COPIES OF THAT IN YOUR, UH, PACKET AND TO REINSTATE 15 4 17 AS IT WAS PRIOR TO DECEMBER 22.
STAFF RECOMMENDS THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD VOTE RECOMMENDS THAT THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN ADOPT DETECT AMENDMENTS AS SUBMITTED.
THIS WOULD REQUIRE THE CONSISTENCY STATEMENT.
SO HAVE SEEN, UH, THIS IS GONNA REQUIRE THE CONSISTENCY STATEMENT.
UM, BOARD HAVE ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? UM, PERHAPS WE GET SOME GUIDANCE ON OUR FIRST USE OF OUR CHECKLIST FORM, OR, UM, OR DOES SOMEBODY WANNA MAKE A MOTION WITHOUT IT? I THINK IT'S, UM, THE MAP AMENDMENT, THE, THE CONSISTENCY STATEMENT WILL BE MORE USEFUL.
I THINK IT WOULD BE FAIR TO MAKE THE STATEMENT THAT, UH, THE TEXT AMENDMENTS FOUND BE CONSISTENT WITH OUR FUTURE LAND USE PLAN.
WE ACCEPT THE AMENDMENT, THE TEXT AMENDMENT.
OH, I HAVE TO ACCEPT TEXT AMENDMENT ALSO TO FIND THAT THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE IS CONSISTENT WITH THE LAND USE PLANS.
SO, SHALL I RESTATE MY MOTION? YES, SIR.
SO I MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE, THAT THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT AND PRESENTED, PRESENTED DOCUMENTATION ARE CONSISTENT WITH, UH, THE STATED GOALS, THE EXPRESSED INTENT, AND THE 2022 LAND USE PLAN UPDATE.
AND THAT THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS REASONABLE AND IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST, JUST LIKE THAT.
WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT TONIGHT.
WELL, THANKFULLY, THANKFULLY, THE CHAIRMAN POINTED OUT THE BOTTOM PART OF THE STATEMENT QUIETLY.
UM, SO I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ANY MORE DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE.
[3.C. LAND USE ORDINANCE TEXT AMENDMENT Code Section: Section 15-423(d) “Quasi-judicial procedures”]
ITEM NUMBER THREE, C, LAND USE ORDINANCE.AND THIS ONE'S EVEN, UH, MORE SIMPLE.
UM, QUITE SIMPLY, STAFF NOTICE, UH, A TYPO WHERE IT SAYS WHAT IS CURRENTLY IN PRINT IS ONE 70 D DASH 4 0 6.
THERE IS NO ONE 70 STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT, UM, PLANNINGS BOARD VOTE TO RECOMMEND THAT THE BOARD OF AL TO THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN ADOPT THE TEXT AMENDMENT TO CHANGE SECTION 15 423 D TO READ AS A ONE 60 D DASH 4 0 6.
NOW, WAS THE ORIGINAL TEXT APPROVED BY THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD AND THEN TAKEN TO THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN FOR APPROVAL FIRST? ORIGINALLY, YES.
THIS IS JUST DURING A REPRINT.
SO THIS IS SOMEBODY SOMETHING ALREADY APPROVED AS A BOARD, BUT THERE WAS A TYPO.
SO NOW WE'RE JUST FIXING THE TYPO.
DO WE NEED THE CONSISTENCY STATEMENT FOR THIS? OH, GREAT.
[00:10:01]
SUCH A GREAT JOB.I THINK YOU ONLY HAVE TO SAY MAYBE THEY EXPRESSED INTENT.
WHAT DOES IT NEED ALL THREE OF THOSE? I WOULD CHECK ALL OF THE BOXES.
CHECK ALL THE BOXES EVERY TIME.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT AND PRESENTED DOCUMENTATION ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE STATED GOALS, THE EXPRESSED INTENT, AND THE 2022 LAND USE PLAN UPDATE AND 2010 LAND USE PLAN, AND THAT THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS REASONABLE AND IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST.
ANY MORE DISCUSSION? SO YOU NOTE ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
[3.D. DISCUSSION ITEM: Code Section: 15-343 “Flexibility in administration required” (Parking)]
ITEM NUMBER D UH, DISCUSSION ITEM PARKING.LAST MONTH WE WERE DISCUSSING SECTION 15 DASH 3 43 E, WHICH EXPLAINS THE, UH, CENTRAL RETAIL CORE SOUNDS ON MA'AM.
UM, WE'VE GOT THE, THE MAP THAT WE DISCUSSED BEFORE, BEFORE YOU HERE.
SO, UM, I THINK WHAT THEY'RE ASKING US IS TO, UM, PROVIDE A LITTLE GUIDANCE ON WHETHER OR NOT WE, UH, MAYBE NEXT MEETING VOTE IN SUPPORT OF MOVING THESE LINES, OR PERHAPS WE WANT TO DELAY TO, UM, LOOK AT THIS WHEN WE GO THROUGH OUR ENTIRE CODE OF ORDINANCES.
UM, I AM IN FAVOR OF HOWEVER THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT.
I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION.
ALL RIGHT, SO MY FIRST QUESTION IS, WHAT DO WE THINK THE TIMELINE IS FOR REVIEWING START TO FINISH THE ENTIRE CODE OF ORDINANCES? I'M ASSUMING THAT'S NOT GONNA BE A SHORT PROCESS OPTIMISTICALLY AC AMOUNT.
SO, SO NOT A SHORT PROCESS TO THE MICROPHONE.
SO THEN MY QUESTION IS, IS IT BENEFICIAL, UM, UM, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF, UH, THE BOARD AND STAFF TO DEAL WITH THIS MAP CHANGE IN ADVANCE OF, YOU KNOW, AND THEN, THEN THE UPDATE PROCESS CAN MERELY BE CONFIRMING THAT THAT'S, IF YOU FEEL IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THAT CONVERSATION.
SO THAT'S, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE IT AND, UM, ADVOCATE FOR WHAT THE BOARD'S RECOMMENDING TO THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN IN A PUBLIC HEARING.
IT IS BEFORE US, BECAUSE IT DOES COME UP PERIODICALLY AS AN ISSUE.
SO IF IT IS THE WILL OF THE BOARD TO MOVE THIS ON TO BE AN ACTION AGENDA FOR RECOMMENDATION AT OUR NEXT PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MEETING, WE CAN TAKE THAT VOTE AND I WILL PRESENT THAT VOTE TO THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN IN A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THEIR CONVERSATION.
AND AGAIN, UM, EVEN IF WE, WE, I CAN PRESENT THIS TO THEM THAT WE DISCUSS THIS, HERE ARE THE DISCUSSION POINTS THAT CAME UP, AND I WILL EXPLAIN THAT IT, WHAT THE VOTE WAS, WHETHER THAT YOU ALL RECOMMENDED IT AFFIRMATIVELY OR YOU RECOMMENDED NOT DOING THIS, BUT WE HAD THE CONVERSATION, SO WE'RE MOVING IT FORWARD.
SO, IN SHORT, AND FOLLOWING ON WITH OUR DISCUSSION FROM OUR LAST MEETING, I, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR, UM, OF THIS MAP CHANGE AND REDRAWING THIS, UM, THIS MAP THE BOUNDARY.
AND WE HAD SOME, I THINK WE SHOULD LIVELY DISCUSSION LAST MONTH, BUT I THINK WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD MOVE SOMEHOW IN THAT WAY IN 18 MONTHS.
WELL, WHAT WE WILL DO, IF THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD, UM, THE CONSENSUS OF THE GROUP IS STAFF WILL WRITE OR MORE DETAILED STAFF REPORT FOR CONVERSATION THE NEXT TIME, AND WE WILL HOST THAT VOTE AND WE WILL MOVE IT FORWARD FOR, FOR THE DECISION MAKERS TO CONSIDER.
IS IT FAIR FOR US TO SUBMIT QUESTIONS TO STAFF BETWEEN NOW AND THE NEXT MEETING AS TO WHAT SOME OF OUR CONCERNS MIGHT BE OR WHAT SOME OF THE QUESTIONS ARE? SO THAT COULD BE PART OF THE REPORT.
YOU ARE, OR WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW.
WHAT'S THE WHY, WHY DO IT? BECAUSE OUR ZONING ORDINANCE, PARKING STANDARDS ARE DESIGNED FOR A NEW BUILDING, A NEW BUSINESS TO GO IN A NEW BUILDING, NOT TO ACCOMMODATE A NEW BUSINESS GOING INTO A HISTORIC BUILDING WITH VERY LIMITED PARKING.
SO ANYTIME THERE'S A CHANGE OF USE, IT TRIGGERS REVIEWING THE PARKING.
AND IN A LOT OF CASES DURING DUE DILIGENCE, IT SIMPLY TELLS A, UM, PROSPECTIVE BUILDING OWNER OR A, A BUSINESS OWNER THAT MIGHT WANNA BUY A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT WELL CHANGE OF USE IS GONNA RULE OUT THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY.
CUZ I CAN'T MEET THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS
[00:15:01]
AND SO WELL, SO THEN THEY LOOK ELSEWHERE.BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY, IT RULES IT OUT.
IT MEANS THEY CAN STILL APPLY FOR OVS.
IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T MEAN AUTOMATICALLY RIGHT? THAT IT RULES IT OUT.
VERY OFTEN IT DOES BECAUSE IN THE ESSENCE OF A VARIANCE, THERE ARE VERY STRICT CRITERIA, RIGHT.
AND UP UNTIL THIS POINT, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYONE BE ABLE TO SATISFY THOSE VARIANCE CRITERIA.
HAVE WE HAD ANYONE TO COME INTO ONE OF THESE OLD BUILDINGS THAT SAID, I WANNA DO THIS, BUT BECAUSE OF THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, I CANNOT.
HOW MANY TIMES I WOULD HAVE TO DEF I I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF KEEPS TRACK OF ALL OF THE DENIALS THAT THEY MAKE.
UM, MANY OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE ANECDOTAL, RIGHT? VERY MANY TIMES THERE'S NO APPLICATIONS THAT'S PRESENTED.
THEY JUST CALL AND ASK QUESTIONS IF I'M NOT SPEAKING OUT OF TURN.
SO THAT DATA WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO AGGREGATE.
SO, AND, AND I WOULD, UM, YOU COULDN'T HONESTLY SAY A LOT.
WELL, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, NEVER GETS TO THAT POINT BECAUSE AS, AS A PART OF DUE DILIGENCE, FOR INSTANCE, UH, PROSPECTIVE BUSINESS OWNER OR SOMEONE THAT WOULD LIKE TO BUY A PIECE OF PROPERTY OR BUY A BUILDING DOWNTOWN MM-HMM.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT, UH, FLOOD, FLOOD, UM, ELEVATIONS, WE'D LOOK AT A WHOLE GAMUT OF THINGS.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I I'M JUST GONNA GO RIGHT DOWN THE LIST AND SAY, OKAY, YOU, YOU'VE GOT A PROBLEM WHEN YOU CHANGE THIS USE, YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING ON YOUR, UM, PROPERTY TO SATISFY THIS PARKING REQUIREMENT.
AND IF YOU'RE NOT INSIDE THAT CURRENT YELLOW BOX, YOU CAN'T UTILIZE OFFSITE PARKING OR ON STREET PARKING TO, TO CHECK PART OF THOSE NUMBERS.
IT'S JUST NOT AVAILABLE TO YOU AS AN, AS AN OPTION.
AND SO, YOU KNOW THAT, THAT, THAT LIKELY THAT BUSINESS OWNER RIGHT THEN SAYS, OKAY, WELL THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY'S OUT.
AND SO IT NEVER GETS TO STAFF FOR DISCUSSION.
DOES, DOES ANYONE KNOW WHY THE ORIGINAL YELLOW AREA WAS CHOSEN AND NOT THE REST? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA? I MEAN, I KNOW YOU, I KNOW YOU, YOU, YOU WEREN'T HERE TO DO IT, BUT
I MEAN, DIDN'T WE DISCUSS THIS WAY BACK? WE DISCUSSED IT LAST MONTH, DIDN'T WE DISCUSS THIS PARKING AND, AND MAKE CHANGES HERE? THAT'S WHY NO, NOT FOR THIS.
WE, WE DISCUSSED, UM, PARKING WITH BLINDERS ON AS IT RELATES TO, UM, SHORT TERM RENTALS.
AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT AND THIS AREA WITH SOME WHAT IFS, WHAT IF SCENARIOS, BUT NOT SPECIFIC TO A, AS A WHOLE FOR PARKING.
THIS CHANGE IS REALLY, IS NOT GONNA CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF PARKING THAT PEOPLE HAVE NOW.
IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE NUMBER OF SPACES THAT ARE DOWNTOWN.
IT DOESN'T CHANGE THAT IT, IT COULD CHANGE THE SPACES THAT THEY HAVE ON THE PROPERTY BECAUSE NOW THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE REQUIRED TO KEEP THOSE SPACES ON THE PROPERTY.
SO I HAVE TWO ISSUES WITH THIS.
ONE IS, AT LEAST FROM THE CONVERSATION WE HAD LAST TIME, UM, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD ELIMINATE ANY PARKING SPACES IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA BECAUSE IF YOU DO THAT, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS, RIGHT? WE HAVE A WALKING PROBLEM.
WE DON'T HAVE A PARKING PROBLEM RIGHT? IN THE CITY OF NEWBURN.
SO IF YOU GET RID OF SOME OF THE PARKING SPACES IN THESE RED AREAS, YOU'RE GONNA PUSH PEOPLE INTO THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS TO PARK CLOSER TO LIKE THE EDGES OF THE RED AREA.
UM, SO ELIMINATING PARKING SPACES IS ONE.
AND, AND THEN SECOND AND SECOND, LET LET WAIT, LEMME FINISH, LEMME FINISH.
THE SECOND ONE IS PUTTING A BUSINESS THAT REQUIRES EVEN MORE PARKING AND NOW SAYING, OH, YOU DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT PARKING SPACES AND ALL.
WHERE ARE ALL THOSE PEOPLE GONNA PARK? SO WE'RE, WE'RE ADDRESSING ALLOWING ALL THESE BUSINESSES TO, UH, NOT HAVE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, BUT WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING THE PARKING PROBLEM.
THAT, THAT'S THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THIS REAL, REAL QUICK.
IS THAT TRUE WHAT HE'S SAYING THAT SAY THESE, THE, UH, THE BED AND REAKFAST DOWN HERE WOULDN'T THEN IF WE MADE THIS CHANGE, THEY WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED TO HAVE.
THAT DEPENDS ON THE LANGUAGE THAT YOU ALL DIRECT STAFF TO BRING BACK TO YOU.
SO YOU COULD GIVE DIRECTION TO STAFF TO BRING YOU LANGUAGE THAT SAYS THAT EXPANDS THE BOUNDARY THAT EXISTS BEFORE YOU ON THE SCREEN EXCEPT, OR PROVIDED THAT THERE'S NO REDUCTION IN OFF ON OFF STREET PARKING.
THAT IS ONE OPTION THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED.
SO THAT, SO THAT'S ONE THING, RIGHT? SO IF WE HAD TO, BUT YEAH, I, I FIGURED THAT WAS PROBABLY THE CASE.
I'M JUST NO, NO, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
IT'S ABSOLUTELY A GREAT QUESTION.
BUT WITH THE PARKING UNIT THEY HAVE DOWNTOWN
[00:20:01]
WHERE YOU HAVE PUBLIC PARKING, WHICH IS ON THE STREETS, YOU'RE LIMITED ON HOW LONG YOU CAN STAY THERE FOR THE ON STREET PARKING.HOWEVER, IN THE CITY OWNED LOTS, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ANY TYPE OF TIME RESTRICTION.
SO I'M GONNA OPEN A BUSINESS, BUT I, I THINK I'M GONNA NEED AT LEAST 25 PARKING SPOTS.
BUT WE'VE ELIMINATED AND MADE THIS REQUEST, SO NOW I CAN PARK ANYWHERE ELSE WHERE MY CUSTOMERS CAN GO WHEREVER AND PARK IN ANYBODY'S SPOTS.
WELL, FOR THE, WOULD YOU SAY ANYBODY SPOTS? YOU CAN'T PARK AND RENT IN SPOTS? WELL, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU COULD PARK IN THE, IN THE YELLOW LOT OR THE RED LOT OR THE BLACK LOT JUST LIKE ANYBODY ELSE COULD.
BUT IF YOU PARKED ON THE STREET, IT WOULD ONLY BE FOR TWO HOURS.
AND THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS IF YOU LOOK AT THE AREA NORTH OF THE RED ZONE, THAT'S ALL RESIDENTIAL JUST HAPPENS TO BE WHERE I LIVE.
AND THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT, THERE IS NO LIMIT, TIME LIMIT
AND ON STREET DOWNTOWN IT'S, UH, SEVEN TO FIVE IS THE TWO HOUR LIMIT AFTER FIVE.
RIGHT? THE TWO HOUR LIMIT GOES AWAY.
AND LIKEWISE IN PARTICULAR WITH, UM, THE LOT THAT'S BESIDE MORGAN'S, A LOT OF THE SPACE, THAT'S A LEASED LOT.
SO A LOT OF THE SPACES THERE ARE LEASED, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
SO AFTER FIVE THEY'RE, THEY'RE AGAIN AVAILABLE FOR SOMEONE COMING DOWN TO GO TO THE RESTAURANT OR WHATEVER.
AND, AND THEY'RE NOT, UH, I MEAN THAT'S WHEN THE ENFORCEMENT GOES AWAY.
AND THAT'S, SO THAT'S WHY THOSE REQUIREMENTS GOES AWAY.
BUT THAT MY BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE THERE NINE TO FIVE DOING WHATEVER THE BUSINESS I OPEN UP.
SO THEY'RE, WHICH LIKELY NO DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER BUSINESS THAT'S IN THE YELLOW BOX THAT WE SEE NOW.
SAME REQUIREMENTS RIGHT NOW WITHIN THE YELLOW AREA.
IF YOU WANTED TO OPEN UP A NEW BUSINESS IN THIS, IN AN EXISTING BUILDING, THERE'S NO PARKING REQUIRE.
SO THE QUESTION IS WHY ARE WE TREATING THE PEOPLE IN THE RED HATCH DIFFERENTLY? THAT'S, THAT'S THE MY I'M HAVING TROUBLE WITH THE LOGIC.
AND THAT'S WHY I'M WONDERING WHY IT WAS THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
JUST THE LINE THAT WAS DRAWN AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REDRAWING THE LINE.
YEAH, IT WAS, IT WAS LIKELY LOGICAL AT THE TIME WHEN IT WAS DONE, I HOPE.
AND SO I THINK WHAT WE ARE, ONE COULD ONLY HOPE.
WELL, WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING NOW IS THAT IT MAY BE LOGICAL TO MOVE THAT LINE.
UM, AND MR. REDRAW THE BOUNDARY, UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T HAVE THE PROCEDURAL HISTORY.
I THINK THE LAST TIME, UM, THIS SECTION WAS AMENDED WAS MANY, MANY DECADES AGO.
I WILL ADD THAT IF, IF THIS BODY IS INCLINED TO DO NOTHING AND, AND NO, UM, MOVEMENT IS MADE TO THESE LINES, THEN THE COLLATERAL CONSEQUENCES OF THAT CHOICE MAY BE NO NEW USES IN DOWNTOWN EMPTY BUSINESSES OR EMPTY BUILDINGS.
UM, BECAUSE WE'RE UNABLE TO CREATE MORE DIRT DOWNTOWN.
AND I DON'T THINK, UM, IT'S THE WILL OF THE BOARD, A BOARD OF ALDERMAN THAT IS TO DEMOLISH HISTORIC BUILDINGS TO CREATE PARKING SPACES.
UM, THAT GROWTH IS NOW PUTTING US IN A POSITION WHERE I THINK WE NEED TO SCRATCH OUR HEADS AND THINK VERY CRITICALLY.
I'M CURIOUS ANY BUSINESS OWNER THAT'S TOWN THERE NOW THAT WE'RE GONNA SAY THERE BEING A PARKING REQUIREMENTS, WOULD THAT AFFECT THEM AND THEIR BUSINESS? I, I COULD ONLY ASSUME IN A GOOD WAY.
BUT WHY WOULD IT BE A GOOD WAY THEY'D BE BECOME MORE CONFORMING, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
RIGHT NOW, THE, THE THE YELLOW AREA, IS THERE ANY REQUIREMENT IN THE YELLOW AREA THAT EXISTING PARKING SPACES CANNOT BE REMOVED OR DEMOLISHED? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF LAND IN THERE
WE CAN CHANGE THAT PART OF WHAT WE'RE DOING.
OR PART OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.
UM, SO WE HAD MENTIONED ONE OPTION TO CONSIDER WAS THROWING IN SOME LANGUAGE THAT SAID IF YOU WANT TO REMOVE PARKING THAT EXISTS ON WHATEVER DATE THIS IS APPROVED, THEN YOU NEED, THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS TO GET A SPECIAL USE PERMIT THROUGH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.
AND THAT IS PROBABLY THE EASIEST WAY TO ACCOMMODATE OUR, UM, KEEPING THE PARKING THAT WE HAVE.
BECAUSE YOU WOULD TAKE A REALLY DEEP DIVE LOOK THROUGH THAT SPECIAL USE PERMIT PROCESS ON WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS APPROPRIATE.
UM, AND I WOULD PROBABLY SUGGEST IF WE REDRAW THAT LINE, WE LEFT THE SHORT TERM RENTAL PARKING STANDARDS TO
[00:25:01]
APPLY AND THAT WE DID THROW IN THAT LANGUAGE ON A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO MAINTAIN WHAT WE HAVE.NOW, IS THERE ANY THAT WAS ON MY LIST, THE SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT WE PROBABLY OUGHT TO MAINTAIN THAT? UM, YES.
AND THAT'S BEEN RECENTLY DISCUSSED.
I THINK PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
SO WE, WE JUST CALLED THAT OUT IN THE WORDS.
IS THERE ANY THOUGHT TO PROTECTING THE PARKING IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS ON THE NORTH AND THE WEST SIDE OF THAT DOWNTOWN AREA? EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY PROTECTING THE I PERMIT PARKING.
I THINK THAT'S OUT OF PAY GRADE ON PERMITTING PARKING.
I'LL LET JAMIE, WHAT DO YOU THINK? YEAH, I I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S BEEN ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT, UM, ANY PARKING CHANGES NORTH OF BROAD STREET.
HOWEVER, WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT, UM, ANY CONSIDERATIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE OR ANY CONCERNS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE, THOSE ISSUES CAN BE RAISED AT A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE BOARD OF PROBLEM IF IT'S NECESSARY, UM, TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO ON STREET PARKING IN THOSE OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS.
WELL, ONLY BECAUSE IF, IF YOU NOW SAY FOLKS CAN OPEN BUSINESSES THAT REQUIRE MORE PARKING IN THESE RED AREAS, YOU KNOW, ON THE SOUTH SIDE IT'S PROBABLY NOT AS BAD, UH, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WHERE THE PALACE IS AND THE HISTORY CENTER AND ALL THAT.
BUT ON THE NORTH SIDE, ON THE EAST SIDE AND THE NORTH SIDE, THERE'S ALL RESIDENTIAL AREAS AROUND THAT.
AND PEOPLE WILL GO PARK IN THOSE RESIDENTIAL AREAS, DON'T THEY ALREADY? UH, IN SOME CASES THEY DO.
BUT MORE FOR SPECIAL EVENTS THAN JUST REGULAR BUSINESS.
UM, ESPECIALLY EVENTS ARE EVERYWHERE.
AND YOU KNOW, IN A, IN THE TOWN THAT I LIVED IN IN CALIFORNIA, THEY CREATED ENOUGH BUSINESSES AROUND THE RESIDENTIAL AREA WHERE WE, WE LIVE THAT WE CREATED PERMIT PARKING AREAS AROUND THOSE BUSINESSES SO THAT THE RESIDENTS HAD A PLACE TO PARK.
CUZ NOT A LOT OF THESE HISTORIC HOMES IN THESE AREAS HAVE GARAGES OR DRIVEWAYS.
SO IN THAT AREA, THERE'S 180 PARKING SPACES.
JUST SO, JUST WHICH AREA? THERE'S 180 PARKING SPACES IN THAT, IN THAT, IN RED IN THAT THE, THE NORTH OF P*****K, NORTH OF P*****K SOUTH AND BROAD STREET, THERE'S 180 SPACES THERE.
I DIDN'T COUNT THESE, WHICH ARE THE RIVERFRONT APARTMENTS.
SO, BUT EVEN, I MEAN THE, THE, THESE SPACES ABOVE P*****K STREET, LIKE THE P*****K STREET, THE CITY PARKING LOT MM-HMM.
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT TURNING THAT INTO KIOSK PARKING, RIGHT? YES.
THERE, WELL, THERE'S DISCUSSION ON IT.
IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET, BUT, SO WHAT IF, UM, YOU GUYS CAME BACK TO US AT THE NEXT MEETING WITH SOME LANGUAGE THAT WE COULD THEN VOTE ON? I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO WORK THAT OUT BEFORE THE MEETING OR WELL PROPOSE LANGUAGE AND, AND YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MODIFY IT BEFORE WE PASS IT ON.
WELL, IF WE'LL SOME LANGUAGE AS A STARTING POINT FOR CONVERSATION, WE CAN CHANGE IT UP DURING THE MEETING OR LEAVE IT AT THE MEETING.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO PACKAGED JUST LIKE THAT.
I WOULD CAUTION YOU, UM, IT'S NOT THIS BOARD'S RESPONSIBILITY TO DEBATE PERMITTED PARKING OR PAYING FOR PARKING.
WE, WE ARE CHARGED WITH OUR PERMANENT BUILDING LAND USE AND HOW TO PERMIT THEM AND THEIR USES.
BUT IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING PARKING IN ONE AREA, THAT COULD AFFECT PARKING OUTSIDE THAT AREA, WHY CAN'T THAT BE CONSIDERED? IT CAN BE.
I THINK PARKING, PARKING ON THE STREET IS ACCOMMODATED BY THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT, NOT PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
IT'S KIND OF JUST A DIFFERENT FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT.
UM, SO A PERMITTED PARKING SITUATION WOULD BE SOMETHING TO BE TALKED ABOUT WITHIN ADMINISTRATION AND THROUGH THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.
WELL, WE COULD ALSO RECOMMEND THIS TO THE BOARD AND THEY COULD ALSO VOTE IT DOWN.
WELL, AND I'M, I'M, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED WHAT I'M HEARING IS, IS WELL, WE'RE JUST GONNA DRAFT LANGUAGE AND WE'RE GOING TO SHAPE IT UP SO WE CAN GIVE IT OFF TO THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN AND APPROVE THIS.
NOW, MAYBE THE REST OF YOU ARE, AND I GET VOTED DOWN AND THAT'S OKAY
I THINK THIS STILL REQUIRES SOME DISCUSSION AND, AND I'M NOT, I'M NOT NECESSARILY ALL JUST PRO-BUSINESS.
WE'RE GONNA DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO HELP WITH THE BUSINESSES IN TOWN BECAUSE THE RESIDENTS, YOU KNOW, WE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON OUR HOUSES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
NO, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE PRESERVE THAT VALUE.
WELL, I SEE IT, THE LANGUAGE THAT THEY WANT TO PROPOSE IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN WORK FROM.
I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S GONNA BE CUT AND DRY.
NO, I, I, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT AND AGREE.
TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT, BUT I'M, I'M NOT, I, I GUESS I, MY POINT IS I'M NOT REALLY READY TO SAY, OKAY, WELL LET'S GET SOME LANGUAGE TOGETHER THAT WE CAN SAY, WE'RE GONNA DO THIS.
NO, NO, LET'S GET SOME TOGETHER THAT WE CAN WORK FROM.
WELL, LET'S, LET'S DO, LET'S DO THIS.
LET'S, LET'S GET SOME LANGUAGE FROM THE NEXT MEETING AND WE DON'T HAVE TO VOTE ON IT.
WE COULD TABLE IT TO THE NEXT MEETING IF WE DON'T, IF
[00:30:01]
WE DON'T, IF WE DON'T GET A CONCURRENCE.BUT I THINK WE NEED TO START SOMEWHERE.
AND I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO WAIT 18 MONTHS IF THE WHOLE BOARD I AGREE.
WE DON'T NEED TO, IF THE WHOLE BOARD WANTS, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT TO HAVE A VOTE AND, YOU KNOW, WE, WE TAKE IT FROM THERE.
BUT, UM, I THINK THERE IS MORE DISCUSSION WE HAD, BUT, UM, I THINK AT THIS POINT WE'VE EXHAUSTED TONIGHT DISCUSSION.
UNLESS I'M EVER RULED ON THAT.
DO DO YOU THINK IT REQUIRES, UH, A SEPARATE AD HOC COMMITTEE TO, TO LOOK AT THIS AND THEN FOR, FOR THIS? I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK THAT, I THINK THE WORK'S BETTER DONE AS A FULL BOARD RIGHT HERE IN THE MEETING.
AND PERHAPS THERE, IT'S NOT A COMPLICATED ISSUE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT, IT HAS SOME POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES.
ONE OF WHICH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS PUSHING PARKING OUT.
UM, THAT I THINK WE CAN TALK ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE HAVE THE LANGUAGE IN FRONT OF US.
UM, BUT I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THIS IS A COMPLICATED THING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
WELL THEN I GUESS I WOULD ASK STAFF IF, IF YOU GUYS ARE GONNA PUT TOGETHER LANGUAGE, PLEASE THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED, WHICH IS PUSHING PARKING INTO RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
UM, WHERE, YOU KNOW, WHERE ARE THOSE PEOPLE GONNA GO AND, AND HOW DO WE ADDRESS THAT TO HELP PROTECT THE RESIDENTS? SO IS THERE CONSENSUS AMONG THE MEMBERS PRESENT TO HAVE STAFF BRING BACK SOME DRAFT LANGUAGE FOR YOU DURING YOUR AUGUST MEETING FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION? I AGREE.
I'M SEEING AT LEAST FOUR HEADS SHAKE.
UM, WITH THAT, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON
[4. STAFF UPDATES]
TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR.UM, INCLUDED A COPY OF THE, UM, WORKSHEET FOR YOU ALL THE CONSISTENCY STATEMENT WORKSHEET.
WE'VE ALREADY SORT OF BEEN THROUGH THAT, UM, AN APPLICATION HERE THROUGHOUT THE MEETING.
[5. Board member comments]
ITEM NUMBER FIVE, BOARD MEMBER OF COMMENTS.DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS? BRING COKE NEXT TIME.
YEAH, I THINK I SAID ENOUGH ALREADY.
UMM, TRYING TO THINK IF I WANNA MAKE A COMMENT ON THE PARKING THING QUICKLY.
IT, IT COULD BE, UH, SOMETHING THAT, PERHAPS SOMETHING THAT THE BOARD OF OTTOMAN COULD SPIN OFF AND HAVE A BROADER DISCUSSION OF BROADER DOWNTOWN.
OH, I, I CAN ASSURE YOU THEY WILL.
AND SO ONCE, ONCE WE SEND THEM SOME LANGUAGES, OF COURSE.
THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE IN OUR DOWNTOWN FOR AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN HERE.
I I'VE TALKED TO SOME FOLKS THAT WERE ON THE PARKING COMMITTEE WITH YOU YES.
UH, AND WITH THAT I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
ALL OPPOSED? WE ARE ADJOURNED.