Sep 13, 2023 Planning &amp; Zoning

ITEM NUMBER THREE, THE WEST LI AND PARCEL, A GENERAL PLAN.

[3.A. “WEST NEW BERN, PARCEL A: GENERAL PLAN” Parcel Identification Numbers: 8-209-13001 & Number of New Parcels: 1 8-209-12003 Zoning: C-3 & R10-A Location: 3000 Mahew Drive Property Owners: Weyerhaeuser Real Estate Applicant: McKim and Creed]

MATT, DO YOU HAVE A, UH, PRESENTATION ORDER? OKAY.

UM, THIS IS FOR THE GENERAL PLAN FOR WEST NEWBURN PARCEL A THE APPLICANT IS WAREHOUSE REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY.

PROJECT NAME WEST NEWBURN PARCEL.

A LOCATION IS ON MAY DRIVE IN THE WEST VERN COMMUNITY.

UH, THE EXISTING ZONING IS C THREE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT AND R 10 A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.

THAT'S MR. BALLARD, RIGHT? MM-HMM.

CO.

UH, AND THE SIZE, UH, FOR THE RESULTING PARCEL IS 1.1 ACRES.

UH, THERE IS ONLY ONE LOT THAT IS RESULTING AND IT'S THE PROCESS OF SUBDIVIDING 0.8 ACRES OFF OF THE WAREHOUSER TRACK AND SUBDIVIDING 0.23 ACRES OFF OF THE CITY.

WELL SITE PARCEL AND COMBINE THEM TOGETHER FOR THAT ONE LOT.

UM, THEN THERE'S ALSO, IN ADDITION TO THAT 0.35 ACRES OF DEDICATED RIGHT OF WAY ALSO COMES OFF OF THE WELL WAREHOUSER TRAIL.

UM, CITY OF NEW BERN UTILITIES IS PROVIDED TO THIS SITE.

SO YOU HAVE AN IDEA.

THIS IS THE CURRENT, CURRENT LAYOUT, UM, LAYOUT.

THE, UH, WELL SITE, UH, PROPERTY AT THE BOTTOM.

AND THEN THE WAREHOUSE ATTRACTS IS THIS LARGE TRACK ALL THE WAY AROUND AND THAT AREA THERE.

SO THE SUBDIVIDING FIRST OFF OF THE LARGE WAREHOUSE TRACT, THESE TWO PIECES.

UM, THE TOP SKINNY PIECE IS THE RIGHT AWAY PIECE.

AND THEN THE ONLY PIECE WOULD BE PART OF THE RESULTING LOT.

AND THEN OFF OF THE WELL SITE, UH, PARCEL, UH, SLICING OFF THIS TOP EDGE IN THAT CORNER.

UH, AND THEN LASTLY, COMBINING THEM THE TWO PARCELS, THOSE TWO PIECES TOGETHER TO CREATE ONE PARCEL OUTLINED HERE ON WOOD WITH A 1.11.

UH, THIS IS THE, UH, GENERAL PLAN FOR THAT.

AND YOU CAN SEE HERE, UH, THE SAME, THE SAME SETUP HERE.

UM, AND IT PROVIDED SOME, UH, DETAILS.

CROSS SECTION FOR THE RIGHT OF WAY IS, UH, ZOOMING IN TO SEE IT A LITTLE BETTER.

UM, AND THIS DASH LINE REPRESENTS THE, THE TWO DIFFERENT PARTS PREVIOUS TO THIS PROPOSAL.

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, WE CAN COME BACK TO THAT HERE.

SO THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS ALL LEGAL REQUIRE, SORRY, ALL LEGAL REQUIREMENTS FOR GENERAL SUBDIVISION PLAN.

IF WE'LL HAVE BEEN SATISFIED, FIRE, WATER RISK RESOURCES AND ELECTRIC DEPARTMENTS HAVE REVIEWED PLAN AND HAVE NO OBJECTIONS.

AND THEREFORE THE GENERAL SUBDIVISION PLAN APPROVAL OF WEST NEWBURN L L C PARCEL A IS RECOMMENDED.

[00:05:02]

AND THAT IS OUR REPORT.

I HAVE NOT THE WHOLE DISCUSSION.

DO WE KNOW WHY THIS IS HAPPENING? I MEAN, I, MAYBE IT DOESN'T MATTER TO THE ZONING PART OF IT.

I'M JUST CURIOUS WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS? SO DO WE WANT THE APPLICANT, UH, SPEAK? SURE.

THAT'D BE GREAT.

HEY, CLIFF BARSON, THANKS FOR HAVING ME AGAIN.

UM, YES, THEY WE'RE, WE'RE COMBINING THAT PARCEL IN ORDER TO CREATE ESSENTIALLY, UM, A WAREHOUSER IS GONNA SELL THAT PARCEL AND IT'S CREATING ADDITIONAL ACCESS AREA FOR THE PERSON, FOR THE ENTITY THAT'S BUYING THAT PARCEL.

SO THEY'RE JUST BASICALLY TAKING A PIECE OF WHAT THEY ALREADY OWN AND A LITTLE, TAKING A LITTLE BIT OFF THE CITY CORRAL PROPERTY TO MAKE A PROPERTY THAT SOMEBODY'S GONNA BUY.

AND, AND THAT SWAP WERE, UM, HAS BEEN, WAS APPROVED AT THE LAST CITY MEETING, UH, LAST MONTH.

ALMAN THE ALDERMAN.

ALDERMAN MEETING? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

JUST CURIOUS.

WHY WOULD YOU DO ALL THAT STILL? YEAH.

WHAT'S THE POINT? NEED MORE DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM NOW? AND WE APPROVE THE APPLICATION.

DO WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THE, WHAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT BEFORE WITH NO, UH, NOT FOR SUB.

AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, MR. CHAIR, THIS IS A MOTION FOR DENTAL PLAN APPROVAL? YES.

UH, ANY ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? HEARING NONE, I'LL DO A ROLL CALL VOTE.

[3.B. “WEST NEW BERN, PARCEL A: FINAL PLAN” Parcel Identification Numbers: 8-209-13001 & Number of New Parcels: 1 8-209-12003 Zoning: C-3 & R10-A Location: 3000 Mahew Drive Property Owners: Weyerhaeuser Real Estate Applicant: McKim and Creed]

THREE B.

FOR THREE B.

THIS IS NOW THE FINAL PLAN FOR THAT VERY SAME, UH, PROJECT THAT YOU JUST APPROVED.

UH, WEST NEW VERN PARCEL A AGAIN, APPLICANT IS WAREHOUSER REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY.

PROJECT NAME WEST NEW VERN PARCEL A.

THE LOCATION ON MAY DRIVE IN THE WEST NEW VERN COMMUNITY, THE EXISTING ZONING C THREE AND R 10, A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, AND THE SIZE 1.1 ACRES.

AGAIN, SHOWING THE PART PIECES THAT ARE EFFECTIVE.

AND LIKE THIS IS A SIMILAR, UH, PLAN, BUT NOT EXACTLY THE SAME.

UH, THEY HAVE ALSO ADDED A CLARIFICATION THAT THE WELL SITE PROPERTY IS ZONED R 10 A AND THE, UH, WAREHOUSE OF TRACT WAS, UM, ZONED C C THREE.

UH, AND SO, UH, THEY'VE ADDED THIS INSET HERE TO SHOW THAT THE RESULTANT TRACT, OR I'M SORRY, PARCEL WILL BE SPLIT ZONED WITH THAT, UM, ZONING SHOWN SHOWN THERE WITH THE C3 AT THE TOP AND THE TEN EIGHT BOTTOM.

SO OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S THE SAME.

SO WE HAVE THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION.

WE RECEIVED, UH, OR IT RECEIVED GENERAL PLAN APPROVAL FROM C PLANNING ZONING BOARD ON SEPTEMBER 5TH AGO.

ALL TECHNICAL AND LEGAL REQUIREMENTS FOR FINAL SUBDIVISION PLAN APPROVAL HAVE BEEN SATISFIED.

THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS HAS APPROVED THE BOND ESTIMATE.

UH, TWO $71,000, THREE 20 AND FINAL SUBDIVISION PLAN APPROVAL OF A IS RECOMMENDED.

THAT CONCLUDES OUR REPORT.

I'M TO THE BOARD FOR DISCUSSION.

I'LL A MOTION ON THIS SIDE.

I NO, GO AHEAD, KELLY.

I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UM, APPROVE THE SUBDIVISION FLAT, UM, AS INDICATED FOR I SECOND IS THAT SUPPLY FINAL PLAN.

WE'RE GET THERE.

WE'RE WE'LL THESE OUT.

ANY WATER? WE HAVE MOTION, WE HAVE SECOND.

ANY, ANY DISCUSSION ON ITEM? HEARING NONE.

I'LL CALL FOR ROLL CALL VOTE.

ALRIGHT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AYE.

ALL OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIED.

ALRIGHT, TO THE

[3.C. LAND USE ORDINANCE TEXT AMENDMENT Code Section: Section 15-343 “Flexibility in administration required.” Applicant: City of New Bern ]

FUN ONE.

ITEM THREE C, LAND USE ORDINANCE TEXT AMENDMENTS.

MATT, DO YOU HAVE ANY PRESENTATION?

[00:10:02]

UH, CITY OF NEWBURY, LAND USE ORDINANCE FOR TOLD, I'M SORRY.

YOU WANNA DO THIS? TAKE ONE.

YEAH, I'LL GET, I'LL JUST GIVE A SYNOPSIS OF WHERE WE'RE HERE.

I THINK WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THIS, BUT WE'VE, UH, WE'VE GOT TWO NEW STAFF MEMBERS HERE.

SO I'LL RECAP REALLY BRIEFLY.

UH, WE WERE FACING A PROBLEM THAT, UH, BUSINESSES WERE BEING OPENED DOWNTOWN AND THE PARKING WASN'T BEING CHECKED.

AND IF YOU ARE TO LEGALLY ISSUE A CHANGE OF USE PERMIT FOR AN EXISTING BUILDING, EXISTING BUILDINGS, OF COURSE BUILD THE CHARM OF OUR DOWNTOWN HERE IN NEW BERN.

UM, YOU ARE ABLE TO MEET THE PARKING STANDARDS THAT ARE DESIGNED FOR A BRAND NEW BUILDING.

AND THAT'S HOW THE ORDINANCE WAS WRITTEN AS IT INTENDED TO BE APPLIED.

SO WHEN PEOPLE ARE DOING THEIR DUE DILIGENCE AND CALLING AND ASKING, CAN I OPEN THIS BUSINESS DOWNTOWN? MANY TIMES THE ZONING ALLOWS IT, BUT THEY CANNOT MEET THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.

WE ARE TRYING TO FIND A WAY AROUND THAT.

SETH, OVER THE LAST FIVE MONTHS AND A GREAT DEAL OF RESEARCH TURNS OUT IT'S VERY COMMON IN HISTORIC DOWNTOWNS IN COASTAL CITIES THAT PROVIDE PUBLIC PARKING, WHETHER PAID OR NOT.

MOST OF THEM ARE PAID.

OURS IS NOT PAID.

UH, THEY, THEY HAVE RELAXED STANDARDS OR NO STANDARDS FOR PARKING DOWNTOWN.

WE HAVE 600 FREE AVAILABLE PARKING SPACES TO THE PUBLIC IN OUR DOWNTOWN.

UM, WE, WE SHARED THOSE AT THE LAST FEW MEETINGS.

SO ONE OF THE OPTIONS IN ORDER TO CLEAN UP A PERMITTING PROBLEM WAS TO EXPAND THE DISTRICT WITH EXEMPTIVE PARKING.

WE DISCUSSED AT LENGTH FOR ONE OR TWO OF THOSE MEETINGS WHERE THAT BORDER SHOULD BE.

WE WERE COMFORTABLE, I THINK, UH, IN DISCUSSIONS THAT THE MAP AS PROPOSED DOWN HERE, THE EXPANDED MAP PROTECTS THE EXISTING, UH, IN HISTORIC BUILDINGS.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE NEW BUSINESSES USED IN AND PROTECTS THE LAND PRIME FOR REDEVELOPMENT FROM NOT BEING EXEMPTED.

WE, AT THE LAST MEETING, LOOKED AT LANGUAGE ONE OPTION THAT PROVIDED, UH, ABSOLUTELY YOU COULD NOT TAKE AWAY PARKING IF IT, IT EXISTED ON THE DATE OF ANY CHANGE POTENTIALLY BEING ADOPTED.

WE LOOKED AT PROVIDING AN OUT BY HAVING THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT BE ABLE TO APPROVE IF YOU WANTED TO REMOVE EXISTING PARKING WITHIN THIS PROPOSED AREA, COME, UH, IF A TIME CAME WHEN ANY CHANGES WERE APPROVED.

AND WE ALSO, I THINK AT LEAST HAD CONSENSUS, IF NOT AGREEMENT THAT WE WOULD NOT TOUCH, UH, AIRBNBS OR SHORT-TERM RENTALS.

UM, WE WOULDN'T ALLOW ANY, UH, DEVIATION FROM WHAT'S REQUIRED THERE SINCE THAT'S RECENTLY BEEN DEBATED AND ADOPTED.

SO WHAT WE WERE DIRECTED AT THE LAST MEETING TO DO WAS PROVIDE LANGUAGE THAT DID NOT EXEMPT THE SHORT TERM RENTALS.

THAT DID ALLOW AN OPTION TO GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHETHER OR NOT PARKING SPACES COULD BE ELIMINATED THERE.

AND THAT GAVE A LEGAL DESCRIPTION OF THE MAP THAT WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT WITH, UH, THAT'S OF COURSE THE INTRO TEXT THERE, WHICH BRINGS YOU TO OUR EXPANDED EXEMPTED PARKING STANDARDS.

UM, IN A HOPE THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL MORE PEOPLE.

YES, YOU CAN'T OPEN A BUSINESS DOWNTOWN.

WE HAVE HAD DISCUSSIONS ON POTENTIAL.

IF THIS REALLY TAKES OFF IN EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS DOWNTOWN OR BUILDING DOWNTOWN HAD A BUSINESS IN IT, WOULD WOULD THAT IMPACT ADJACENT RESIDENCES? I RECOGNIZE WE HAVE NOT REALLY WORKED THROUGH THAT ISSUE.

UM, AND, AND WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE AN ISSUE, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY A CONCERN OF OURS.

AND SO WE BROUGHT YOU THE LANGUAGE THAT YOU ASKED FOR, FOR DISCUSSION, AND I THINK THAT WE'RE AT A POINT NOW, EITHER WE CAN TAKE NO ACTION ON IT AFTER DISCUSSION AND IT CAN JUST DIE AND WE DO NOTHING.

UM, OR YOU CAN TAKE A VOTE ON IT AND IT WILL BE FORWARDED TO THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN FOR A DISCUSSION AND WE'LL HAVE A REPORT ON IT.

UM, THAT INCLUDES ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

AND OF COURSE, EVEN IF THE PROPOSED TEXT, UH, WAS TO DIE TONIGHT, UM, HERE OR NOT BE RECOMMENDED, IT CAN STILL GO FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.

AND WE'LL JUST GO WITH THEIR RECOMMENDED THAT THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD DID NOT RECOMMEND THIS TO YOU AND HERE'S THE REASONS WHY.

, AND THEN THEY WOULD KIND OF ASSUME THAT DIRTY WORK OF WHAT THEY DO IS HAVE DISCUSSION.

THEY COULD KICK IT BACK TO YOU OR THEY CAN ADOPT IT OR THEY CAN CHANGE IT.

THAT'S, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE.

OR YOU CAN DIRECT US AFTER DISCUSSION TODAY TO MAKE MORE CHANGES AND WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT AS WELL.

BUT THOSE ARE OUR OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE.

WE HAVE HAD A DISCUSSION ON THIS IN SOME FORM OR FASHION AT FIVE MEETINGS NOW, I

[00:15:01]

THINK.

SO WE WOULD LIKE TO EITHER GET THE DIRECTION TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE TO SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND BRING IT BACK FOR MORE DISCUSSION OR, UM, TO TAKE THAT VOTE ON THIS.

OR AGAIN, YOUR OTHER OPTION IS TO JUST LET IT DIE, NOT TAKE A VOTE AND NOT NOT DO ANYTHING.

AND WE JUST LET IT GO TO BED.

SO I'LL TURN IT OVER TO THE CHAIRMAN.

UM, OR EVERYBODY.

I DO HAVE, UM, ONE QUESTION FOR, UM, FOR, FOR STAFF.

UM, SO TO CLARIFY THIS IN MY HEAD, THE, UM, ORDER OF ADJUSTMENT.

I WANNA OPEN A BUSINESS.

I COME DOWNTOWN AS A PARKING REQUIREMENT.

I GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

HOW DOES THAT EXPLAIN THAT PROCESS FOR EVERYONE? IF YOU, LET'S SAY YOU ARE A BUSINESS AND YOU OPEN A BUSINESS OR WANT TO OPEN A BUSINESS WITHIN THIS DISTRICT HERE, BUT YOU'VE GOT, LET'S SAY, UH, FOUR PARKING SPACES THERE, BUT YOU WANT TO TAKE TWO OF THOSE AND TURN 'EM INTO OUTDOOR DINING SEATING.

YOU WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO REMOVE PARKING SPACES THAT EXISTED ON INSERT DATE OF ADOPTION WITHOUT GOING TO GET SPECIAL APPROVAL FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

THEY WOULD BE THE ONES THAT WOULD SAY, YEAH, WE THINK IT'S OKAY TO LET THOSE TWO PARKING SPACES GO AWAY.

WE ARE TRYING TO PROTECT THE PARKING THAT WE DO HAVE DOWN THERE.

THAT IS THE POINT I THINK BEHIND ASKING US TO INCLUDE THAT LANGUAGE.

SO HOPEFULLY THAT'S CLEAR TO EVERYBODY.

WE DIDN'T WANNA SAY ABSOLUTELY NOT.

YOU'RE NEVER TAKING AWAY A PARKING SPACE EVER.

UM, AND THIS WAS KIND OF THAT, THAT MEET IN THE MIDDLE.

OKAY? MM-HMM.

AND, AND WHY THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, CAN MAKE DECISIONS KIND OF TO DEVIATE FROM THE ORDINANCE WHEN THEY HAVE CLEAR CRITERIA.

AND SO THEY WOULD BE THE BODY THAT COULD TAKE THAT QUASI-JUDICIAL VOTE TO, TO DETER, TO GRANT THAT AUTHORITY.

WHEREAS WE'RE AN ADVISORY BOARD HERE AT PLANNING AND ZONING, AND WE DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DEVIATE FROM THE ORDINANCE THE WAY THEY DO.

AND WE HAVE, WE CAN RECOMMEND TO CHANGE IT, BUT WE CAN'T ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, CHANGE IT.

CHANGE IT.

AND THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WILL CONDUCT A HEARING.

SO THE PERSON INTERESTED IN MAKING SOME TYPE OF DEVIATION WOULD'VE TO COME AND PRESENT SWORN EVIDENCE.

UM, PEOPLE WHO HAVE STANDING WHO MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY THE CHANGE WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME AND PRESENT EVIDENCE OR OFFER INFORMATION AS WELL.

SO IT'S A, IT IS A ROBUST PROCESS.

IT'S, YEAH.

LIKE IT, UM, IT'S ALSO HELPFUL TO REMEMBER THAT IF THIS LANGUAGE IS ADOPTED, THERE'S A PRESUMPTION THAT'S CREATED THAT THE, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, UM, WOULD HAVE TO CONSIDER.

QUESTION YOU, YOU STATED THAT, UM, YOU GUYS IDENTIFY 600 PARKINGS MASON.

YES.

WE REVIEWED THAT MAP AT THE ACROSS.

ARE THEY ALL IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA? MM-HMM.

WILL WE BE BEGIN? WOULD WE GET A LIST OF THE SPACES THAT YOU ALL IDENTIFIED? SO THIS, IF YOU LOOK UP THERE, THOSE NUMBERS ON THERE, OR FLIGHT PARKING SPACES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

600 PARKING SPACES TOTAL.

INCLUDING PURPLE AND BLUE.

YEP.

PLUS ON THE STREET AND THE STREET.

600 NOT IN THE STREET.

SO NO, THEY'RE NOT ON THE STREET.

THE MAJORITY OF THOSE ARE PRIVATE PARKING SPACES.

NO.

THE POLYGONS THAT YOU SEE, THE PURPLE IS PRIVATE PARKING FOR THOSE BUSINESSES THAT HAVE THOSE PARKING LOTS.

THE BLUE WOULD BE PUBLIC PARKING.

SURE.

UH, AND EACH ONE OF THOSE POLYGONS REPRESENTS A PARKING LOT.

UH, AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE ANYTHING ON, ON STREET PARKING.

SO FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE CONVENTION CENTER IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT, THAT PUBLIC PARKINGS, UH, COUNT IS 76 SPACES.

BUT THERE ARE TIMES THAT THE, THE COUNTY WILL NOT ALLOW US TO PARK IN THAT CONVENTION CENTER PARKING LOT.

I'VE SEEN THAT WHERE THEY ROPED IT OFF DURING SOME EVENTS AND SAID YOU CAN'T PARK THERE.

BUT STILL, I MEAN, THE VAST MAJORITY, THE, THE MAJORITY OF THE SPACES OF THE 600 ARE PRIVATE, ARE IN THE PURPLE.

THAT'S MY QUESTION.

THE PURPLE IS, IS THAT THAT'S PART OF THE 600 THAT YOU'RE TELLING US? NO, WE HAVE 600 PUBLIC PARKING SPACES WHEN YOU COUNT THE STREET.

I SEEM TO RECALL SETH SAYING THAT.

DID WE COUNT THE STREET? MM-HMM.

OH, OKAY.

BLUE AND THE STREET.

BUT THE STREET ONES AREN'T REFLECTED ON HERE.

PRETTY ACCURATELY, PRETTY ACCURATE.

BUT THIS IS AN INVENTORY OF THE PARKING AS IT EXISTS TWO MONTHS AGO.

SURE.

YEP.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE EMAIL THAT I HAD SENT OUT, UM, AFTER THE AGENDA CAME OUT.

THAT'S THE LAST TIME I'VE, YOUR THING, THE CITY OF HAS APPROXIMATELY 600 PUBLIC PARKING SPACES THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED IN ANY PARKING CALCULATION.

THAT'S YOUR LAST TIME.

[00:20:03]

AND I APOLOGIZE THAT I WASN'T AT THE LAST MEETING.

UM, BUT IN PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS THAT WE'VE HAD ABOUT THIS ISSUE, WHEN WE BROUGHT IT UP, I CONSISTENTLY RAISED THE POINT THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY HARD DATA ON HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE MADE THE REQUEST.

HOW MANY BUSINESSES HAVE DECIDED NOT TO MOVE INTO THE WHATEVER AREA THEY WERE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE OR ASKING ABOUT THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.

SO TO ME, TO MAKE A CHANGE LIKE THIS, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE SENSE UNLESS WE HAVE A HARD DATA THAT SAYS IT MAKES SENSE TO DO THIS BECAUSE THERE ARE ENOUGH BUSINESSES.

AND IT WOULD, IT WOULD CREATE A PROBLEM IF WE DIDN'T DO SOMETHING.

UM, I'M NOT NECESSARILY JUST OPPOSED TO THIS.

I'M JUST LOOKING AT, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME HARD DATA BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD.

SO ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS I'VE MADE IS, GOOD, DO WE HAVE TO DO THIS TODAY? CAN WE TAKE SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR AND HAVE STAFF, HAVE THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT GATHER SOME DATA ON HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY CALL IN AND ASK THE QUESTION, HOW MANY PEOPLE MAKE A REQUEST AND THEY DON'T MOVE FORWARD? AND I UNDERSTAND THERE, IT'S NOT ALWAYS PARKING.

THAT IS THE ONLY ISSUE DO PEOPLE MOVING FORWARD.

UM, SO I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THAT'S POSSIBLE.

YEAH, IT'S ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE.

UM, I LOVE DATA.

THIS DEPARTMENT HISTORICALLY HAS NOT KEPT GOOD DATA.

WE'RE TRYING TO CHANGE THAT CULTURE AND WE CAN CERTAINLY START TOMORROW AND GO FOR SIX MONTHS.

AND WHEN KENDRICK GETS THOSE CALLS, WE CAN, WE CAN KEEP THEM FOR YOU.

UM, BUT ALSO IT WOULD BE WORTH NOTING THAT THAT IS NOT GOING TO TRACK ANYBODY WHO HAS ALREADY CALLED AND NO LONGER CONSIDERS NEW BERN.

OR THE, YOUR MISSED OPPORTUNITY CALLS SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO COME IN LIKE SIX MONTHS AND THEY DON'T GO ANYWHERE.

WELL, BUT OKAY.

SO THEN THE, SO, SO THE ARGUMENTS I'VE MADE IN THE PAST HAVE BEEN ABOUT JUST COLLECTING DATA FROM THE PAST.

ANOTHER ARGUMENT TO MAKE IS WHAT ABOUT THE FUTURE? THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS BEING CONSIDERED IN NEW BERN THAT IN THIS, THAT COULD END UP IN THIS AREA.

AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR PARKING REQUIREMENTS? FOR EXAMPLE, A PEPSI MUSEUM COULD END UP IN THAT RED HATCHED AREA.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR A PEPSI MUSEUM? ARE THEY THEN EXEMPT FROM ANY OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENT? YEP.

AND SEE THAT THAT'S THE, THEIR, TO ME, WE'VE HAD HOTEL, YOU KNOW, PRESENTATIONS, OTHER HOTELS COMING IN, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND TO JUST EXEMPT THIS ENTIRE AREA FROM OFF STREET PARTNER REQUIREMENTS WITH THOSE KIND OF BIG DEVELOPMENTS POTENTIALLY COMING IN.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOOD PRACTICE.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO JUST BEAR IN MIND THE PROVISO THAT MADAM DIRECTOR, UM, REFERENCED IN HER PRESENTATION THAT IF YOU WERE TO ADOPT THE LANGUAGES BEFORE YOU TONIGHT YES.

ANY BUSINESS OR ANY BUILT PROPERTY OWNER IN THAT RED CROSS CROSS PATCHED AREA WOULD BE EXEMPT, PROVIDED THEY CANNOT REDUCE THE NUMBER OF UNDERSTOOD EXISTING PARKING SPACES.

AND JUST FOR THE SAKE OF POINTING THIS OUT, AGAIN, WE ALREADY ACCEPT IT IN THE YELLOW.

THEY'RE ALREADY BEING LIKE AFFORDED, THEY DON'T HAVE TO MEET.

SO SOMETIMES IF YOU'RE LIKE DOWN WHERE THAT 32 IS, AND YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LINE, YOU'RE LIKE, WHY DO I HAVE TO MEET PARKING AND THE PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE DON'T.

UM, 'CAUSE WE KIND OF CONSIDER ALL OF THAT DOWN DOWN PAL.

WELL, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU, I UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT, BUT THEN PEOPLE ON P*****K STREET ON THE WEST SIDE OF HANCOCK ARE GONNA BE SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING.

I MEAN, YOU, YOU COULD, YOU COULD MAKE THE WHOLE CITY OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENT EXEMPT AND PEOPLE WOULD STILL BE ASKING.

SO I I DON'T THINK THAT'S EVER GONNA STOP.

DEFINITELY ADDRESSING THE CONCERNS THAT ALL FOLKS IS IMPORTANT.

UH, THE OTHER QUESTION THAT ALSO NEEDS TO BE ASKED IS, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE DONE WITH THAT PARTICULAR AREA IN THE FUTURE? DO YOU WANT IT REDEVELOPED OR DON'T YOU? THAT'S ALSO ANOTHER POINT.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ADOPT ORDINANCES LIKE THIS, THEY WRITE KIND OF IN THAT WHERE US STATEMENT, WHEREAS WE DESIRE TO PROTECT AND MAINTAIN OUR, UH, EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND NOT SEE 'EM TORN DOWN AND USED FOR PARKING.

'CAUSE AT SOME POINT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A POSSIBILITY TOO.

AND THERE IS A HEAVY DESIRE IN THE CITY OF NEW BERN NOT TO SEE HISTORIC BUILDINGS TURNED INTO PARKING LOTS.

NO.

RIGHT THERE, BUT STILL, I MEAN IT AND THE GOLD BEAR LOT TOO.

BUT THEN THE, THE CONVERSE OF THAT IS TRUE AS WELL, WHICH IS, LET'S SAY FOR EXAMPLE, THE RUMOR THAT I'VE HEARD THAT THE PEPSI MUSEUM COULD GO INTO THE WELLS FARGO BUILDING.

SO YES, THERE'S PARKING THERE AND THEY CAN'T ELIMINATE THE PARKING UNLESS THEY WENT TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND GOT AN EXEMPTION OR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.

BUT WHAT IF THEY NEED MORE PARKING THAN IS THERE? THEY COULD JUST SAY, WELL, WE'RE GONNA PUT IT HERE ANYWAY AND GO PARK WHEREVER YOU NEED TO PARK.

NOW, THE RED BEAR LOT'S

[00:25:01]

BUT IT, IT JUST SEEMS TO ME THAT THESE TYPES OF BIG THINGS THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED FOR DEVELOPMENTS TO JUST EXEMPT ALL THESE AREAS, I, I, AGAIN, I JUST, IN MY OPINION, IT'S JUST NOT GOOD PRACTICE.

IT'S FAIR CONCERN.

WELL, IT'S AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION.

IF THEY DO MOVE IN, IF THEY WANT TO MOVE IN AND WE DON'T DO THIS, THEN THEY CAN'T MOVE IN.

WELL, THEY CAN MOVE IN.

THEY JUST HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IN PLACE.

THAT'S THE POINT THAT THEY WON'T, WON'T, WON'T BE ABLE TO MEET THOSE REQUIRED, THEY WOULD'VE TO FIND THAT SATELLITE PARKING, WHICH CAN YOU QUOTE THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT IT.

600 FEET.

SIX FEET DEDICAT SPACES.

WHAT? I'M SORRY.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? SO WE ALLOW OFFSITE PARKING WITH AN AGREEMENT TO HAVE SATELLITE PARKING AND IT'S WITHIN 600 FEET.

SO TYPICALLY THEN YOU'D HAVE TO LEASE OTHER PARKING SPACES.

BUT YOU'VE GOT TO FIND THAT, YOU'VE GOTTA FIND IT.

SURE, SURE.

LOOK, I, I WANT TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR, I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF SAYING I DON'T WANT TO ME PERSONALLY, THAT I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS.

I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT.

I'M JUST BRINGING UP CONSIDERATIONS.

THINGS THAT I'VE THOUGHT OF AS WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS CONVERSATION.

AND THE ORIGINAL CONCERNS THAT I BROUGHT UP ABOUT NOT HAVING ANY DATA STILL HAVEN'T BEEN, UH, MITIGATED.

AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW DO YOU PROTECT THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS TO THE NORTH AND TO THE WEST FROM HAVING MORE PEOPLE PARKING IN THOSE AREAS BECAUSE BUSINESSES ARE GOING IN THAT NEED MORE PARKING THAN THEY HAVE.

AND THAT, THAT CONCERN HASN'T BEEN REALLY ADDRESSED AHEAD OF IT.

AND I CAN'T PULL HISTORIC DATA OUT OF THIN AIR.

NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I LIKE, WE COULD START IT, BUT, AND I THINK THAT'S DEFINITELY FAIR PRACTICE.

HOLD ON.

UM, I LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT.

I'M SORRY.

UH, THAT'S HARD TO TRACK BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY'S GONNA CALL THE CITY.

RIGHT? BUT LIKE RAYMOND WAS SAYING, THEY, THEY MAY CALL AN ARCHITECT AND FIND OUT THAT THEY CAN'T MEET THE REQUIREMENTS, SO THEY JUST DON'T BOTHER.

SO I'M NOT SURE THE DATA IS GONNA BE REPUTABLE.

YOU, YOU CAN ONLY TRACK WHAT YOU GET.

YOU CAN'T TRACK EVERY ARCHITECT OR EVERY, UH, ENGINEERING COMPANY IN THE CITY AND ASKING THEM TO GIVE YOU INFORMATION.

I GUESS YOU COULD, BUT THAT'S NOT GONNA WORK.

UM, YEAH.

AND I, I MEAN, OTHER PLACES THAT I'VE WORKED, WE HAVE LOGS OF EVERY PHONE CALL WHEN IT WAS ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT.

WE HAVE A RELATIVELY SMALL STAFF HERE THAT THAT LEVEL OF RECORD KEEPING HAS NOT HISTORICALLY HAPPENED HERE.

UM, AND, AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE ANSWER THE PHONE AND KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THE PARKING TOO.

SO MATT MIGHT GET A QUESTION ONE DAY, HENDRICK MIGHT GET A QUESTION ONE DAY.

JENNIFER MIGHT ANSWER IT ANOTHER DAY.

OH, IT SAYS YOU NEED THIS MANY PARKING SPACES.

YOU JUST, IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARD TO TELL.

I MEAN, THERE'S OTHER WAYS OF, YOU KNOW, NOT YOU'RE A BUILDING OVER A CERTAIN SIZE OR BUILD AFTER A DIFFERENT YEAR.

THERE'S OTHER WAYS IF YOU WANNA REALLY COMPLICATE IT AND STILL KIND OF HELP SOME OF THE OTHER SMALLER BUILDINGS AND, AND THINGS.

BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST WHAT WE'VE PROPOSED TO YOU IS NOT WHERE WE HAVE TO STAY.

I'M NOT A HUGE FAN OF OVERLY COMPLICATED TO ENFORCE ORDINANCES, BUT RIGHT.

NO, AND I, I AGREE WITH THAT.

I MEAN, I I, AND I AGREE WITH EVERY POINT YOU'VE MADE.

THESE ARE THINGS WE DON'T, WE JUST DON'T, WE DON'T KNOW.

WE DON'T KNOW.

BUT TO, TO THAT POINT, THE, THE CITY CHANGES, ORDINANCE, ORDINANCES ARE CHANGED ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY EVERY DAY.

AND WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE PRESENTATIONS OF THOSE WERE GOING TO BE.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, AS A, I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE IN THE EARLY NINETIES, DOWNTOWN AS A PROPERTY OWNER TOLD ME YOU COULD THROW A BOWLING BALL ON MILL STREET AND NOT GET A CAR.

IT WAS DEAD.

AFTER THE, AFTER THEY BUILT THEM ALL, EVERYTHING LEFT AND DOWNTOWN DOCK, AND THEY HAD A PROBLEM.

SO THEN THEY HAD TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, BUILT THE M S D, THEY, THEY STARTED PUTTING TREES ON THE STREETS AND STARTED INVITING SMALL BUSINESSES IN AND EVENTUALLY GREW INTO WHAT WE HAVE TODAY.

WE LOVE THAT DOWNTOWN TODAY.

I THINK IT'S AWESOME.

WHAT, WHAT SCARE ME, ESPECIALLY POTENTIALLY GOING INTO A, A, UH, ECONOMIC DOWNTURN IS TO DISSUADE PEOPLE FROM OPENING BUSINESSES SIMPLY BECAUSE OF PARKING OR OTHER CONSIDERATIONS.

I THINK THAT THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO HELP ANYBODY OR TO COME IN FOR OUR DOWNTOWN AND PROVIDE SERVICES AND PROVIDE GOODS OR PROVIDE JOBS MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR OUR CITIZENRY.

I DON'T KNOW THAT WE SHOULD, THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE IN THE BUSINESS OF

[00:30:01]

LIMITING THAT.

IT JUST AS A, YOU KNOW, AND IF WE'RE GONNA SIT AROUND FOR THE NEXT YEAR AND NOT DO ANYTHING AND POTENTIALLY LOSE THOSE THAT ARE LOOKING AT OUR BEAUTIFUL DOWNTOWN WITH OUR AMAZING RIVERS AND EVERYTHING THAT, THAT, THAT HAS ALL BECAUSE OF WELL, WE MIGHT HAVE SOME PARKING ISSUES.

I, I I, I JUST, I FIND THAT, UM, DISTRESSING.

I MEAN YEAH, YOUR POINT, I, I GET YOUR POINT.

WE COULD HAVE A PARKING, PARKING ISSUE UP, UP IN THE, UH, NORMALLY AREA, AREA OF THE CITY, UH, THE HISTORIC AREA.

THAT'S TRUE.

THEN WE CAN LOOK AT WAYS OF SOLVING THAT, OR WE CAN GET IN FRONT OF IT.

YOU KNOW, IF WE START TO SEE BUSINESSES COME UP AND MAYBE WE PUT TOGETHER A PARKING COMMITTEE IN THIS BOARD TO LOOK AT AND MONITOR THIS, WE LOOK AT ISSUES OF PARKING IN OTHER AREAS AROUND THIS AREA.

I DON'T KNOW.

UM, MY SISTER-IN-LAW, UH, LIVED IN BOSTON AND SHE LIVED IN BEACON HILL, BOSTON.

AND, UM, IN ORDER TO PARK THERE ON THE STREET, YOU HAD TO HAVE STATE THAT YOU WERE ARRESTED THAT DIDN'T NEED PARK IN FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE, BUT YOU COULD PARK THERE AS LONG AS YOU WANTED.

ANY DAY THERE ARE SOLUTIONS TO PARKING PROBLEMS. AND PARKING PROBLEM IS A ONGOING PROBLEM.

AND, YOU KNOW, FOR NEWBURN TO WANT TO HANDCUFF ITSELF TO, OH NO, WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE.

OH NO, WE DON'T WANT TO CHANGE JUST BECAUSE WE'RE SCARED OF SOME PARKING PROBLEMS. I, I, I, I ADVISE AGAINST THAT.

I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT MENTALITY EITHER.

YOU KNOW, WE RAN OFF, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY REMEMBERS THE INDIAN POINT PARK DEAL.

UM, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, AND EVERY WANTED TO HEAR WHAT THEY WERE GONNA DO WITH IT.

WE JUST TOLD 'EM TO GET OUT TOWN.

AND I THINK NOT LISTENING TO WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO DO IN DOWNTOWN, WHETHER BUSINESSES, CITIZENS OR WHATEVER, NOT HAVING THAT DISCUSSION AND LIMITING THAT IN ANY WAY.

I I I, I TELL YOU, I I, I DON'T WANNA LOSE WHAT WE HAVE.

I'M NOT SAYING WE ARE, I'M NOT SAYING WE WOULDN'T OVER A PARKING ISSUE, BUT SIX MONTHS THROUGH THE YEAR, WE WILL HAVE LOST.

WE'RE LOSING OPPORTUNITIES.

THERE'S OTHER SMALL TOWNS IN, IN, IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AND THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN IS THE YELLOW AREA.

IF WE TAKE INVENTORY AND, AND GET DATA THERE, WE MAY FIND THAT, WELL, NOBODY REALLY WANTS TO COME HERE SO WE WE CAN JUST BRING THE PARKING BACK THE WAY IT USED TO BE.

I MEAN, REALLY, THERE'S A HUNDRED WAYS AT THIS THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I'VE NEVER HAD IT.

ONCE YOU OPEN, THAT'S WHAT WELL, I KNOW, BUT THAT'S THE, THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT.

WOULD IT BE USEFUL IF WE TOOK SOME VACANT STORES, SHOWED YOU THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND SHOWED YOU HOW MANY PARKING SPACES PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TO COME UP WITH TO OPEN A VARIETY OF BUSINESSES IN A PLACE DOWNTOWN? JUST FOR AN EXAMPLE TO SHOW THE, THE PROBLEM I WOULD HELP THE PERMIT MEETING.

IT'S SUCH, AND AGAIN, I KNOW I SAY THIS, EVERY MEETING IS NOT, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A PARKING PROBLEM.

I'M TALKING ABOUT A PERMITTING PROBLEM.

RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

HOW TO LEGALLY ISSUE YOU A PERMIT TO OPEN A BUSINESS, BECAUSE THERE'S A HANDFUL UP HERE, I DON'T BELIEVE EVER SHOWED, AND WE'RE ISSUED PERMITS TO OPEN INCORRECTLY.

I MEAN, PRIOR TO MY TENURE HERE.

BUT, AND I, I DON'T LIKE OPERATING LIKE THAT.

I LIKE EVERYONE TO BE ABLE TO SAY, THIS IS MY BUSINESS.

I'M MEETING ALL YOUR CRITERIA.

AND WHEN ANOTHER BUSINESS CALLS AND ASKS, HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? I CAN PULL UP THE PERMIT AND I CAN SHOW YOU EXACTLY HOW IT WAS.

THAT'S HOW I WANT TO OPERATE MOVING FORWARD.

, CAN I, THAT'S WHAT THIS WOULD GIVE.

NEIL ARMSTRONG, DOES THE CITY OWN THAT, THAT BIG SPACE? I BELIEVE SO.

THAT'S, THAT'S THE DAYS IN LOT NEXT TO ARMSTRONG'S.

NO, NEXT TO ARMSTRONG.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CHURCH.

BIG GIGANTIC.

AND ALSO THEY HAD A MOTEL THAT THEY TOW DOWN THERE.

DOES THE CITY ON THERE.

WHY YOU CAN'T, WE THEY CAN'T BUILD A PARKING LOT.

AND THEN YOU SHUTTLE BUILDING TO SHUTTLE PEOPLE, THEY WANNA COME DOWNTOWN.

THAT WAS OUR, THAT'S THAT, THAT COULD BE A SOLUTION.

YOU HAVE THE SPACE AND THE PLUG, THE AREA WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS ACTUALLY BE VERY MUCH NEW CONSTRUCTION.

RIGHT? NO, WE PURPOSELY EXEMPTED AREAS THAT HAVE NEW USES.

THIS IS TO PROTECT WHAT WE GOT DOWN THERE.

THE RESIDENTS WHO ARE HERE FULL TIME.

TO PROTECT THE BUILDINGS THAT RESIDE.

AND I, I THINK I, I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU SAID, BRAD.

THE, THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD DIFFER WITH WHAT YOU SAID IS I DON'T BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE THE JOB OF THE CITY TO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO BRING IN WHATEVER BUSINESSES WANT TO COME TO NEW.

BECAUSE IF YOU SAY WE'RE GONNA DO WHATEVER IT TAKES, IT MEANS YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE RESIDENTS AND WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO THE RESIDENTS.

YOU'LL DO ANYTHING TO BRING IN THE BUSINESS.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT POLICY.

FAIR ENOUGH, FAIR ENOUGH.

I, I AGREE WITH YOU.

IF PEOPLE WANT TO COME TO NEWBURN, WE DON'T WANT TO DISSUADE THEM FROM COMING.

BUT YOU ALSO DON'T WANT TO CREATE OTHER PROBLEMS ONCE YOU BRING IN MORE BUSINESSES THAT CREATE MORE DIFFICULTY FOR

[00:35:01]

AND THAT'S WHAT I'M, THAT'S THE REASON I'M TAKING THE POSITIONS THAT I'M TAKING.

AND, AND AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULDN'T DO THIS.

I'M SAYING I JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE I HAVE ENOUGH DATA YET TO KNOW SHOULD WE DO THIS ? AND IF SO, SHOULD IT LOOK LIKE THAT OR SHOULD IT LOOK DIFFERENT? , I, I DON'T KNOW.

BECAUSE TO ME, THE NUMBER OF BUSINESSES OR EVEN BUILDINGS AVAILABLE FOR BUSINESSES OTHER THAN AIRBNBS IN THAT SPACE, IT'S NOT A VERY LARGE NUMBER.

IT'S ACTUALLY A VERY SMALL NUMBER.

UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S ON THE SHADE AREA.

AND THEN ON THE SOUTH SIDE, ON THE CR STREET SIDE, THERE COULD BE A COUPLE.

ONE THERE MEAN YOU'VE GOT THE CITY HALL AND YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, OTHER THINGS, BUT THERE'S JUST NOT THAT MANY.

A LOT OF THAT'S RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS WHY THIS SO COULD WE TABLE THIS? SO, SO THERE'S ONE THING TO SAY, WHY WOULDN'T WE DO IT? BECAUSE IT'S MOSTLY RESIDENTIAL.

THEN THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS, WELL, IF IT'S MOSTLY RESIDENTIAL, WHY WOULD YOU DO IT? SO YOU CAN LOOK AT IT EITHER.

I MEAN, THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

YOU CAN LOOK AT IT EITHER WAY.

SO, MR. CAMERON, COULD WE TABLE THIS? I AM OPEN TO, BECAUSE WE JUST GOING BACK AND FORTH THE SAME THING.

I AM OPEN TO ANY MOTION THAT THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO MAKE AND FOR A SECOND TO VOTE.

AND WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST THAT WE KEEP IT ON THE AGENDA.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST THAT STAFF BEGIN COLLECTING DATA ON WHO CALLS AND ASKS FOR THE, WHAT THE REQUIREMENT IS.

AND HOW MANY BUSINESSES, IF WE CAN TELL, HAVE DECIDED NOT TO COME IN.

IF WE CAN TELL THAT'S AT LEAST THE REASON FOR A PART OF THEIR LIST OF REASONS WHY THEY'RE NOT MOVING FORWARD WITH THEIR BUSINESS.

IF IT COMES UP AS A, IN ADDITION, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO KNOW HOW FAR BACK CAN WE GO, ? WELL, MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE LET'S, LET'S COLLECT DATA FOR SIX MONTHS.

OH, STARTING NOW.

STARTING NOW.

YOU CAN'T GO BACKWARDS.

NO, I HEAR YOU.

JESSICA'S TOLD US THERE, THERE IS NO DATA.

SO IS THAT A MOTION? SO I MAKE THAT MOTION THAT, THAT WE ASK STAFF TO DO THAT, BUT WE KEEP IT ON THE AGENDA.

WE ASK STAFF TO START COLLECTING DATA AND WE CONTINUE TALKING ABOUT THIS.

'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, I DON'T THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD JUST IGNORE.

I THINK YOU GUYS HAVE DONE A LOT OF WORK ON THIS, AND I'M, I DON'T, I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO AT THIS POINT.

SO YOU GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION.

I, I MADE THAT MOTION.

WE HAVE A MOTION ON, ON THE FLOOR.

WE HAVE SECOND THAT MOTION.

I MOVE SECOND.

WELL, I'M GOING MOVE THAT WE ADOPT THE ORDINANCE, THE NEW, NEW VERAGE IN THE ORDINANCE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE ORDINANCE.

DO I HEAR A SECOND? MM-HMM.

, RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE ORDINANCE TO THE BOARD HALL.

YES.

APPROVE.

APPROVE TO THE BOARD HALL.

DO I HAVE A SECOND ON THAT MOTION? I'LL SECOND THAT ONE.

I HAVE A MOTION.

I HAVE A SECOND.

ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION, UH, WITH THIS VOTE? I'M GONNA CALL FOR A ROLL CALL VOTE.

MATT, COULD YOU DO THAT FOR US? UM, RUSTY INGRAM? NO.

MARSHALL VALLEY? YES.

AND BRAD JEFFERSON? YES.

MARSHALL B.

I'D, I'D LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING I'D LIKE TO CAPTURED IN THE NOTES IN THE MINUTES OF THE MEETING.

THE, THE EMAIL THAT I SENT, THE REASONS THAT I'VE GIVEN WHY I THINK THIS IS A BAD IDEA.

AND JUST SO THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS, I'M GONNA SEND AN EMAIL TO THE BOARD OF DERMAN, INCLUDING THE MAYOR, AND LET THEM KNOW THAT WE'RE DOING THIS WITHOUT ANY DATA.

AND I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA, JUST SO EVERYBODY KNOWS.

THANK YOU.

WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER

[4. STAFF UPDATES]

FOUR, STAFF UPDATES.

THE BOTTOM AS A PERMIT TECH TO A ZONING TECHNICIAN TO HIS ZONING ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, UH, GIS COORDINATOR.

UH, COUPLE OF THINGS.

YOU NOTICE WE GOT SOME NEW FRIENDS WITH US HERE TONIGHT.

WE HAVE OUR ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, ROBERT GOFF, JOINING US THIS EVENING AND OUR NEW LAND AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATOR, HENDRICKS CANTON.

UH, WOULD YOU GUYS LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELVES, TALK, TALK ABOUT YOURSELVES A COUPLE MINUTES? JUST SAY HI TO EVERYONE.

, HOW YOU DOING? UH, IT'S GOOD TO BE HERE.

I'VE COME FROM A BACKGROUND IN ABOUT SIX AND A HALF YEARS IN PLANNING.

UH, I'VE WORKED ANYWHERE FROM AS FAR AS SOUTH AS NEW HANOVER COUNTY TO AS FAR NORTH THIS HERE, UH, EVERYWHERE IN BETWEEN.

AND, UH, MY EXPERIENCE IN, IN THIS PROFESSION STARTS ALL THE WAY AT

[00:40:01]

UH, I'VE BEEN A PLANNER AND A PLANNING ADMINISTRATOR AND THIS IS WHERE I'VE LANDED TODAY.

UH, AND IT'S, IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE AND I LOOK FORWARD TO LEARNING ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT NEWBURN HAS TO OFFER.

AND, UH, I'M KENDRICK, UH, MY NAME STAN.

SO I PREVIOUSLY WORKED LEY COUNTY AS WELL AS A ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.

PRIMARILY WHAT I DEALT WITH WAS THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

UM, SO THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A TRANSITION FOR ME, BUT OBVIOUSLY, I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE I'M GETTING COMFORTABLE ALREADY.

SO KIND OF SEEING ALL OF YOU HERE AND JUST GOING THROUGH THE DISCUSSIONS.

UM, IN TERMS OF EXPERIENCE WISE, I'VE BEEN IN IT FOR NOW FOUR AND A HALF YEARS.

INITIALLY, STARTED OUT AS A ZONING OFFICER FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF.

WAS IMMEDIATELY PROMOTED, UM, TO CHIEF ZONING OFFICER AT THAT POINT.

AND THEN THAT TRANSITIONED INTO ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.

SO IT WAS KIND OF LIKE A MULTITUDE OF TRANSITION, UM, WITHIN THE SAME JOB.

SO, UM, AGAIN, KIND OF TOUCHING ON WHAT ROBERT SAID, I'M EXCITED.

UM, THIS IS MY FIRST OR SECOND MUNICIPALITY.

I MEAN, SO IT'S GONNA BE A DIFFERENT TURN FROM COUNTY TO CITY.

SO I'M INTERESTED AND I'M DEFINITELY EXCITED TO BE HERE AND SEE WHAT'S, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN GOING FORWARD.

SO I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOU.

ALRIGHT.

WELCOME.

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU.

YEAH, I LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

CAN I JUST BRAG ON 'EM A LITTLE BIT? THINGS THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU.

KENDRICK JUST WAS A NAME ZONING OFFICIAL OF THE YEAR BY THE NORTH CAROLINA.

WOW.

CONGRATULATIONS.

STATE ASSOCIATION OF ZONING OFFICIALS.

NICE.

AWESOME.

THIS LAST MONTH.

AND, UM, DID YOU GET A CAR? , GET A FLAG.

NICE.

HE'D GOT A FLAG.

I WAS HAPPY FOR THAT.

AND HE GOT TO DRIVE A COMPANY CAR.

, HE DID A LOT MORE THAN JUST ZONING.

AND SZA COUNTY ALSO OVERSAW MINIMUM HOUSING AND NUISANCE ABATEMENT, UH, IS WHAT WE WOULD CALL IT HERE.

SO THIS IS A LITTLE BIT NARROWER SCOPE, BUT I'M ALSO HOPING THAT HE CAN HELP, UH, PATCH IT OUT A LITTLE BIT IN SOME PROCESSES AND THINGS.

AND THAT HELP KEEP NEWBURN LOOKING A LITTLE NICER AND FRESH.

AND UH, ROBERT HERE IS A MARINE CORPS VETERAN AS WELL.

HE, HE WAS IN THE SERVICE BEFORE HE JOINED PUBLIC SERVICE, SO COOL.

MY OTHER STAFF UPDATE WOULD BE, UM, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A MEETING NEXT MONTH.

AND THE REASON I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE A MEETING NEXT MONTH, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC SUBMITTALS.

THE CUTOFF WOULD BE TUESDAY.

IF SOMETHING COMES IN THAT IT'S, UM, TIME PRESSING, WE'LL WE'LL HONOR IT AND MOVE IT THROUGH.

BUT, UH, WE'VE GOT ONE ANNEXATION THAT WILL NEED US TO RECOMMEND THE ZONING ON.

IT HASN'T COME THROUGH YET, BUT WE'RE TRYING, UH, I'LL BE OUT OF TOWN AND WE'RE KIND OF HITTING RESET ON WHO'S DOING WHAT AND ROLES AND BUILDING SOME PROCESSES.

SO IF WE CAN GET THROUGH, UM, ONE MONTH WITH A LITTLE BIT OF BREAK FROM ONE MEETING, UH, I WOULD, I WOULD LOVE TO EMBRACE THAT OPPORTUNITY.

SO STAY TUNED NEXT WEDNESDAY, WE'LL CHEAT YOU OUT AN EMAIL.

WE'LL NOTE, WE'LL KNOW BY TUESDAY AT FIVE O'CLOCK.

COOL.

MATT, YOU GOT IT? WHAT YOU GOT? NOPE, THAT SOUNDS GREAT.

UM, I, UH, I PROBABLY WILL NOT BE OPENING.

YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK SO.

IF WE GO BACK TO ALL YOUR OTHER MEETINGS, IT WAS WONDERFUL BEING HERE FOR TWO WHOLE MEETINGS.

, I GOT TO MEET YOU ALL AT LEAST.

SO THAT WAS REALLY NICE.

SO, UH, MAYBE WE'LL SEE EACH OTHER AGAIN.

THANKS MATT.

APPRECIATE IT.

JAMIE, CAN I MAKE ANOTHER COMMENT? SURE.

UM, I DIDN'T GET THE, UM, AGENDA FOR THIS MONTH EMAIL WISE.

I'LL CHECK OUT THE LIST HERE.

FORGIVE US.

WE'VE ALL BEEN DOING THINGS THAT WE DON'T NORMALLY DO AND THAT MAY HAVE BEEN WHY, BUT MARSHALL, WE'LL GET YOU BACK ON.

WE'RE GONNA MOVE TO, UH, A NUMBER FIVE, UM, BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS.

NOW

[5. BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS]

I HAVE A COUPLE, UM, FOR, UH, KENDRICK.

YES.

CAN YOU, UM, JUST SEND EVERYBODY ON THE BOARD AN EMAIL WITH YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS? UM, THAT'D BE ALL.

AND THEN ANOTHER ONE FOR THE, THE NO MEETING FOR THOSE WHO ARE SHOW UP.

THAT WOULD BE GOOD.

UM, I, I DISCUSSED THIS WITH, UH, RUSTY EARLIER.

UM, GOING FORWARD WITH THIS BOARD, IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THINGS, UM, WITH THE NEW, UM, SETTING SET UP AND DIFFERENT THINGS, AND IT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE MORE, UM, A LITTLE MORE WORK ON THE BOARD.

UH, I JUST WANTED TO HAVE A BRIEF DISCUSSION ON, UM, HOW WE WORK TOGETHER.

UM, RUSTY SENT OUT THAT EMAIL THIS WEEK AND, AND I GOT IT.

AND I, I HAVE TO ADMIT, I, I THOUGHT, OKAY, THAT GOES AWESOME.

I'LL USE THOSE POINTS AT THE MEETING.

UM, AND THEN I REFLECTED ON THAT A LITTLE BIT AND I THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE, MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE ANSWERED THEM VIA EMAIL.

MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS OFFLINE.

MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, AND SO I WANTED TO JUST KIND OF TALK TO THE BOARD ABOUT WHAT ITS

[00:45:01]

FEELINGS ARE ON, YOU KNOW, AND YOU CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IF WE CAN HAVE THOSE TYPE OF, YOU KNOW, OR IF WE NEED THOSE DISCUSSIONS OFFLINE.

IF, IF PEOPLE ARE OPEN TO THAT OR, UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S A, AN EMAIL THREAD OR CHANGE.

THERE'S SOMETHING TO THINK ON BECAUSE I, I WANT THIS BOARD TO BE USED FOR MORE THAN WE COME IN.

WE GOT A GENERAL PLAN AND A FINAL PLAN.

RAYMOND ASK IF BOND IN PLACE, WE ALL VOTE YES.

AND WE ALL GO HOME.

YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE FOR THE PAST YEAR AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO DOING SOME MORE COOL STUFF.

AND SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL IN ACCORDANCE AND, AND, UH, AND AND WORKING TOGETHER.

SO THAT'S, UM, DO, YEAH.

UM, SO THANK YOU MR. CHAIR.

UM, ONE THING THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO BEAR IN MIND THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC BODY THAT WAS MY QUESTION, AND YOU WANNA BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT, EXCUSE ME, YOUR DELIBERATIONS, UM, OUTSIDE OF A, A OFFICIAL NOTICE MEETING THAT IS FROWNED UPON IN AS MUCH AS IT'S ILLEGAL.

SO SPL REPLYING ALL AND DELIBERATING OUTSIDE OF THE MEETING CAN GET YOU INTO SOME HOT WATER.

THERE ARE OTHER WAYS THAT YOU CAN COLLABORATE WITH YOUR FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS AND TO GET THE BENEFIT OF THEIR THINKING AND NOT RUN A FOUL OF THE PUBLIC MEETING LOSS.

AND WHAT WOULD THOSE BE? UM, IF YOU WANTED TO TALK IN SMALL GROUPS, SO ANYTHING LESS THAN A FORUM.

SO TWO'S, THREES, THESE FOUR'S, YOU CAN HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

UM, IF YOU WANT TO BREAK INTO WORK GROUPS, YOU'D HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU THINK THAT THAT IS HELPFUL AND PRODUCTIVE.

UM, AND IF YOU NEED INFORMATION FROM STAFF ABOUT PARTICULAR THINGS, YOU CAN ALWAYS PICK UP THE TELEPHONE AND CALL AND STAFF CAN SEND OUT INFORMATION TO YOU ALL FOR YOUR DIGEST DIGESTION, UH, WITHOUT YOU ACTUALLY HAVING TO DELIBERATE OUTSIDE OF THE SANCTION MEETING.

SO EVERYTHING I JUST SAID, LISTEN, UM, SO ON THAT, IF I, THERE WAS A, UM, IF I FOUND AN ARTICLE OR SOMETHING THAT PERTAINED TO AN ISSUE WE WERE DISCUSSING IN THIS BOARD, CAN I NOT SEND THAT TO EVERYONE? HOW DOES THAT YOU THAT YOU CAN, YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN SEND IT HOWEVER YOU ALL CANNOT DELIBERATE.

GOTCHA.

SO IF YOU WANT TO SHARE INFORMATION, LIKE FOR INSTANCE, MR. INGRAM SENT OUT HIS POSITION ABOUT SOMETHING.

UM, SO EVERYBODY KNEW WHERE HE STOOD, BUT THERE WASN'T ANY BACK AND FORTH ABOUT HOW I'M GONNA VOTE AND TRYING TO CHANGE OR PEN AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH WAS ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE.

ALRIGHT.

AND I LOVE THE IDEA OF WE'RE GROUPS.

UH, I'M GONNA TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, I SAID ARE GONNA KICK KICK THE PARKING BACK TO US FOR MORE DELIBERATION.

IT'LL, IT'LL GET SOME MEDIA ATTENTION.

MAYBE IT'LL GET SOME OTHER PEOPLE'S IDEAS OUT.

UM, BUT A PARKING WORK GROUP WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

AND ONCE WE GET INTO OUR ORNAMENTS, WE'RE GONNA NEED CERTAIN TOPICS.

SO THE MAXIMUM NUMBER IN A WORK GROUP IS FOUR.

FOUR? YEP.

THAT'S 'CAUSE THAT'S BELOW THE FIVE CORE FOR YOU GUYS.

SO, I MEAN, YOU COULD COORDINATE AMONGST THE MEMBERS HERE.

YOU CAN MEET WITH THREE OF 'EM, DISCUSS POSITIONS ON PARTICULAR TOPICS, NOT A PARTICULAR ITEM.

AND THEN DO THE SAME WITH THE SECOND GROUP.

WELL, IN THE PAST, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE DID THE SHORT TERM RENTALS, WE HAD FOUR PEOPLE FROM BOARD AND LIKE A HALF A DOZEN MORE FROM THE COMMUNITY.

SO I GOT SOME INPUT, BUT IT WASN'T A QUOTE.

THAT'S AN INTERESTING IDEA.

SO THEN HOW DO YOU PICK WHO FROM THE, THAT'S THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE YOU GET IN TROUBLE'S.

SO THE AIRBNB AND THE SHORT TERM RENTAL.

WE'VE GOT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REAL ESTATE AGENTS AND PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM.

SO THEY HAD SOME GENUINE INPUT.

I GUESS ANYBODY WITH A CAR TO, TO .

UM, ALRIGHT.

IS, ARE THERE ANY OTHER BOARD MEMBER COMMENTS OR ITEM NUMBER FIVE? ALRIGHT, UH, WITH THAT, UH, I'LL, UH, UH, AWAI A MOTION ON ITEM NUMBER SIX.

ADJOURN.

I MOVE.

SHALL WE ADJOURN? SECOND, I'LL, OKAY.

UH, MOTION IS SECOND.