Sep 20, 2023 Historic Preservation Commission

IS ALL OF THE ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA ARE NOT PREPARED OR HERE? THAT'S CORRECT.

UH, CAN WE HAVE THE ROLL CALL? OH, CERTAINLY.

UH, CANDACE SULLIVAN.

RICHARD PARSONS HERE.

AND MARK NER IS EXCUSED.

[3. Consent Agenda]

SO I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO, UH, REMOVE THE CONSENT AGENDA.

REMOVE THE CONSENT AGENDA FROM THE AGENDA.

ALL IN FAVOR, STATE AYE.

AYE.

OPPOSED? HEARING NONE CARRIED.

[4.C. Hearings: Introduction, Swearing-In, Summary of Process - Introduction of Hearings and Rules of Procedure - Swearing-In of Speakers - Summary of the Hearing Process]

I HAVE SOME OPENING REMARKS.

HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION IS A PUBLIC COMMISSION APPOINTED BY THE CITY OF NEW BERN'S BALL, THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN.

IT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR PRESERVING AND SAFEGUARDING NEW BERN'S, HISTORICALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICTS, DOWNTOWN AND RIVERSIDE BASED ON US DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, STATE STATUTES, CITY ORDINANCES, AND NEW BERN'S HISTORIC GUIDELINES.

TWO OF THE MAJOR TASKS OF THE H P C INCLUDE APPROVING APPLICATIONS FOR CERTIFICATE APPRO APPROPRIATENESS, AND PREVENTING DEMOLITION MILITIAN, UH, BY NEGLECT OF HISTORIC STRUCTURES.

H B C HOLDS AN QUAI JUDICIAL HEARING OF THIS AS ONE ON AN APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS.

THE COMMISSION HEARS SWORN TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, BY PARTIES WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING AND BY OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT EVIDENCE AND ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE APPLICATION.

THE COMMISSION CANNOT CONSIDER COMMENTS BASED ON PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES, HEARSAY OR PERSONAL OPINION THAT CANNOT BE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE SPECIFIC HISTORIC GUIDELINES.

AND LIKEWISE, COMMISSIONERS WILL REFRAIN FROM STATING PERSONAL OPINIONS, PERSONAL LIKES AND DISLIKES, AND HEARSAY.

DURING THE HEARING, WE'LL MAKE OUR DECISIONS BASICALLY ON THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED.

CAN WE HEAR THE FIRST APPLICATION OR YOU'RE GONNA SWEAR AND PRESENTERS SWEAR, SWEAR PEOPLE IN AND THEN YOU HAVE A SECOND SET.

EVERYONE WHO, UH, WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK THIS EVENING, UH, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND BE SWORN IN RIGHT HAND.

PLEASE TELL THE TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE.

YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS ON YOUR HONOR.

COMMISSION AND THE CHAIRMAN WILL CALL FOR A VOTE ON THE MOTION.

WELL, I THINK YOU HAVE ANOTHER PORTION OF YOUR INTRODUCTION NOW.

THE SUMMARY OF THE HEARING PROCESS.

THE H B C ADMINISTRATOR WILL PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION.

THE APPLICANT OR REPRESENTATIVE WILL PRESENT THE APPLICATION.

PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WILL RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING.

WHOEVER RECEIVED NOTICE OF THE HEARING CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.

REBUTTAL IS ALLOWED BY THE APPLICANT AND BY PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE.

OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION AND WILL BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.

THE H P C ADMINISTRATOR PRESENTS THE STAFF'S FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.

THE APPLICANT REPRESENTATIVE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE FINAL COMMENTS ON THEIR APPLICATION.

COMMISSIONERS DISCUSS THE EVIDENCE AND MAY ASK FOR CLARIFICATION FROM THE APPLICANT OR PRESENTERS.

THE CHAIRMAN WILL CALL FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE OR DENY THE APPLICATION WITH STATED FINDINGS OF FACT.

THE MOTION IS DISCUSSED BY THE

[00:05:01]

THE C O A CAN BE APPROVED, APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS OR DENIED.

SO OUR FIRST APPLICATION AND ONLY APPLICATION FOR THIS EVENING IS FOR 8 37 SOUTH FRONT STREET, UH, ALSO KNOWN AS TRENT COURT.

ALRIGHT.

[4.D. 837 S. Front St. (Trent Court, Area A) – to include demolition of 13 buildings and redevelopment of the land area.]

AND THIS IS ONLY FOR, UH, AREA A OF TRENT COURT.

UH, AND THIS IS A COPY OF THEIR APPLICATION.

AND, UH, THIS IS THE SECOND PAGE OF THE APPLICATION.

AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY HAVE SIGNED AND DATED IT.

THEY'VE SUPPLEMENTED THEIR ANSWERS WITH A THIRD SHEET.

UH, THIS SHEET HERE, WHICH YOU SAW IN YOUR PACKET, UH, INCLUDES ALL THOSE FOLLOWING, UH, DESCRIPTIONS OF THE ACTUAL PROJECT.

AND THEN, UH, THEY ALSO HAVE A MAP, WHICH I NOW HAVE TO MAKE SMALL.

YOU CAN SEE, UH, HERE.

UH, AND THIS MAP, UH, SHOWS IN THE TRENT COURT, UM, NEIGHBORHOOD THERE.

THE BUILDINGS IN GRAY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED TO BE DEMOLISHED.

UH, IT INCLUDES STARTING FROM THE RIVER AT THE BOTTOM, UH, THE ADMINISTRATION BUILDING.

UH, AND THEN OFF TO THE RIGHT, UH, THERE ARE SIX, UH, THAT ARE HORIZONTALLY ALIGNED HERE, AND THEN TWO THAT ARE VERTICALLY.

AND THEN, UH, THE OTHER ON THE LEFT, THE OTHER FOUR AS WELL.

UM, SO THAT IS THEIR, UH, DEMOLITION PLAN.

THEIR APPLICATION ALSO INCLUDES THEIR REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.

OOPS.

OH, RIGHT.

SPEED.

UH, WHICH I GUESS I GET TO LATER.

UH, SO WE HAVE HERE ALSO PHOTOGRAPHS THAT THEY'VE SUBMITTED OVER, UH, THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW MONTHS, UH, IN PREPARATION OF THEIR PLAN.

AND THEY'VE, THEY'VE PROVIDED HUNDREDS OF PHOTOGRAPHS.

UM, AND SO I'VE SUMMARIZED THEM OR EXCERPTED, UH, ONES THAT HIGHLIGHT, UH, THE ASCENT, THE ESSENCE OF THEIR PHOTOGRAPHS.

SO STARTING WITH THE ADMINISTRATION BUILDING, THEY SHOW SOME INTERIOR SHOTS.

THIS IS THE, THE ENTRY FORER.

UH, AND THEN, UH, THIS IS A SHOT OF THE BACK.

AND IN THE BOTTOM, YOU CAN SEE, I'M GONNA MAKE THIS A LITTLE BIGGER.

NOW BOTTOM, YOU CAN SEE SOME, UH, OF THE SIDING THAT'S BEEN RIPPED OFF BY THE FLOODING.

UH, UH, THE NEXT ONE IS A PHOTOGRAPH, UH, IN THE CRAWL SPACE UNDERNEATH THE BUILDING SHOWING THE, UH, THE FLOOR STRUCTURE IS A METAL TRUSS WITH, UM, METAL PANS AND THEN COVERED BY CONCRETE.

AND ALL OF THAT METAL HAS RUSTED.

THERE'S ANOTHER SHOT.

YOU CAN SEE IT'S SOME OF THE METAL HAS ACTUALLY PEELED OFF DUE TO THE RUST 'CAUSE ARE JUST SAMPLES OF PHOTOGRAPHS.

AND THEY'VE SHOWN PHOTOGRAPHS INSIDE THE ADMINISTRATION BUILDING HERE WHERE YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY SEE WHERE THE WATER LEVEL WAS HERE WITH, UH, MOLD.

AND THEN AGAIN HERE AND IN THE CLOSETS.

HERE'S ANOTHER ONE.

THIS MAYBE A BATHROOM.

SO THEN, UH, BUILDING A IS THE ONE THAT'S ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE, UH, ADMINISTRATION BUILDING, UH, FARTHEST TO THE EAST.

AND THIS IS, UH, JUST A FRONT ELEVATION OF IT, BUILDING A.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THE BUILDINGS THAT HAS ONE OF THE B RELIEFS, UH, OR SEVERAL OF THE BOW RELIEFS.

UH, THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF ONE OF THEM.

THIS ALSO SHOWS THE, UH, CURVE, LINEAR EDGE TO THE, UH, CANTILEVERED, UH, ENTRY ROOF STRUCTURE, UH, AS WELL AS SOME OTHER FEATURES LIKE BRICKWORK AND SOME, UM, OTHER THINGS AS WELL.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER ENTRANCE THERE.

HERE'S ANOTHER ENTRANCE, UH, FOR NUMBERS THREE AND ONE ON THE END.

IT ALSO HAVE AN ENTRANCE FOR ANOTHER UNIT ON THE END, UH, AGAIN, WITH THE, UH, CANTILEVERED OVERHANG.

BUT OF NOTE HERE IS ON UPPER RIGHT.

UM, THIS IS ONE OF THE BUILDINGS THAT HAS THE, UH, MID-CENTURY MODERN, UH, WINDOWS ON THE CORNER.

UH, OR, UM, AND THEN THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE LEFT

[00:10:01]

HALF OF THE BACK.

UM, A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

THE, UH, PORT, UH, DOORWAY ROOFS ARE, UM, MORE OF A, UH, HIP ROOF AS OPPOSED TO A FLAT ROOF.

THEY ALSO USE BRACKETS AND ARE NOT CANTILEVERED.

UM, THE WINDOW FENESTRATIONS DIFFERENT.

ALL OF THE, UM, UH, UTILITIES AND THINGS ARE ON THE BACK HERE AS WELL.

THIS IS THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, NOT SO MANY UTILITIES, UH, UNTIL YOU GET TOWARDS THE END.

UH, THE ROOFS ALSO HAVE THESE, UH, SEMI-CIRCULAR VENTS FOR THE ATTIC.

AND THEN PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE INSIDE OF THIS, ONE OF THE UNITS IN THIS BUILDING, UH, WITH THE PAINT PEEL HERE ON THE LEFT.

UH, THEN, UH, THE KITCHEN IN THE BACK OF THE, UH, UNIT, AND THEN ANOTHER KITCHEN OF ANOTHER UNIT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT.

AND, UH, THAT WAS, UH, ALSO A WATER HEATER THERE.

UH, THIS IS MECHANICAL UNIT THAT WAS ON THE FIRST FLOOR.

THEN THIS IS SECOND FLOOR, UH, BEDROOM AND A BATHROOM.

AND I CAN SEE THE MOLD ALL OVER.

SO BE THE NEXT ONE TO THE, UH, BEHIND THE A UNIT.

UH, IT ALSO HAS THE BOWEL RELEASE.

AND THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE OF THE A APART APARTMENTS THERE, UH, SAME UNIT PEOPLE, UH, PERSONALIZED IT WITH THIS RED COLORING AND GREEN COLORING IN THE KITCHEN.

AND THEN ALSO, AGAIN, THE, UH, MECHANICAL UNITS FOR THAT.

HERE'S, UH, GOING THEN INTO THE OR SHOT GOING TO THE CRAWL SPACE.

UM, THERE WERE NO SHOTS ACTUALLY UNDER THIS CRAWL SPACE, BUT JUST FROM THIS VANTAGE POINT HERE.

UH, AND YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE, UH, ISSUES WITH THESE INSULATED PIPES HERE IN THE FRONT.

UNIT C.

THERE'S A CLOSEUP OF ONE OF THOSE, UH, MID-CENTURY MODERN CORNER WINDOW UNITS.

UM, MAY ALSO BE ABLE TO SEE THERE'S A, POTENTIALLY AN ISSUE WITH THE, UH, CORNER HAVING A, UH, DIFFERENT, UH, THE BRICK IS IN A DIFFERENT PLANE ABOVE AND BELOW THERE.

THAT MAY HAVE BEEN INTENTIONAL, BUT I'M NOT SURE BILLING'S.

D N E WERE AN F WERE ALL SIMILAR.

OR I'M SORRY, D N E WERE SIMILAR.

THIS IS BUILDING F ALSO AS THE CORNER WINDOWS.

AND, UM, SO IT'S SIMILAR TO THE OTHERS BUILDING G.

THIS IS AN END, THE END OF BUILDING G AGAIN WITH THE CORNER WINDOW.

THE, UH, THE ROOF VENT.

UH, THIS IS THEN FOR BUILDING G, I BELIEVE.

DID I JUST SAY THAT? YES.

BUILDING G.

AND SO THEY WOULD TEND TO ORIENT THE FRONT TOWARD EACH OTHER.

SO, AND THIS, THESE, UH, THIS IS THE FIRST ONE OR THE EASTERNMOST ONE THAT IS PERPENDICULAR TO THE RIVER.

THE OTHERS WERE ALL PARALLEL.

UM, AND SO, UH, UM, YOU CAN SEE ESSENTIALLY THE PLAYGROUND IN THE BACKGROUND ON THE RIGHT.

AND SO, UH, THIS IS, UH, THESE HAD TO BE DUE TO A SLIGHT BIT OF TOPOGRAPHY THERE.

THEY HAD TO BE STEPPED DOWN.

AND SO THESE HAVE, UH, TWO DIFFERENT LEVELS.

BUILDING H WAS THEN THE NEXT ONE ALSO.

NOW, IN THIS CASE, THIS PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN LOOKING NORTH WITH THE RIVER TO THE SOUTH BEHIND THE PHOTOGRAPHER.

SO THIS IS THE END FACING THE RIVER.

AND, UM, THAT'S THAT SAME UNIT.

AND WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT THE RIGHT SIDE OF THIS BUILDING.

AND THE LEFT SIDE IS THE FIRST, IS THE END FACING THE RIVER.

UH, SO YOU CAN SEE THIS IS THE FRONT SIDE.

AND THE PREVIOUS ONE WAS THE BACKSIDE, RIGHT? OOPS, SORRY, THIS IS THE FRONT SIDE.

SORRY.

OH, UH, NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT BUILDING HERE.

SORRY.

UH, AND AGAIN, THE RIVER'S ON THE LEFT ANYWAY.

[00:15:01]

AND THE BACKS TOWARD EACH OTHER APPEARS LIKE THAT.

BUILDING J IS THE LAST ONE OF THOSE FOUR.

UH, AND THIS IS, UH, THEN THE LEFT SIDE IS FACING THE STREET, AND THE RIGHT SIDE IS HEADING TOWARDS THE RIVER.

SO WE'RE STANDING ON THAT STREET, UH, BETWEEN, UH, TRENT COURT AND THE FORMER GROCERY STORE.

AND THEN THIS IS THE RIGHT END OF THAT SAME BUILDING.

AGAIN.

IT HAS STEPPED DOWN FOR THE RIVER OR FOR THE TOPOGRAPHY TOWARDS THE RIVER.

UH, AND THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT HAS, UH, THE, THIS END UNIT HAS AN OVERHANG THAT WRAPS OR EXTENDS BEYOND THE BUILDING, THE POST ON THE END.

AND THEN THIS IS GOING AROUND TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT BUILDING, J UH, AND THEN UP TOWARDS THE ROAD AGAIN.

ON J THERE ARE, UH, TWO OTHER BUILDINGS FARTHER IN, UH, BEHIND THE FIRST SIX, UH, BUILDING Y.

UH, AND THESE ARE OF A MORE, UH, THE MORE NEWER, LET'S SAY THEY'RE OF THE NEWER DESIGN.

AND SO YOU CAN SEE THESE, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE THE FRONTS, THEY DO NOT HAVE, SAY FOR EXAMPLE THE BAR RELIEFS, THEY HAVE A, UM, BRICK FIN BETWEEN THE DOORS.

UH, THE, UH, CANTILEVERS ARE STRAIGHT AND FLAT ACROSS THE FRONT.

AND THE WINDOWS ARE TRIPLE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT AND DOUBLE WINDOWS ON THE TOP.

AND THE ENDS HAVE ONE END, UH, HAS A UTILITY ROOM OF SORTS, BUT THE CHIMNEY, WHEREAS ON THE PREVIOUS DESIGNS THAT THERE WERE, YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED THERE WERE SEVERAL CHIMNEYS WITHIN THE BODY OF THE UNITS.

SO THEN THIS IS GOING AROUND THE, UH, UTILITY END WITH THE CHIMNEY, UM, AND THE BACK, THE BACK IS SIMILAR, UH, TO WHAT WE HAD SEEN BEFORE, BUT WITH LESS UTILITIES, UM, STICKING OUT.

AND THEN THIS IS THE RIGHT SIDE OF THAT SAME BUILDING.

AND THEN LASTLY, A TWO IS THE OTHER ONE OF THOSE TWO MORE, UH, THE YOUNGER OR NEWER, UH, DESIGNS, LEFT AND RIGHT SIDES LEFT AND RIGHT BACK, OR AT LEAST LEFT BACK.

THERE'S THE FULL LENGTH OF THE BACK.

AND THEN THE END ON THIS ONE IS JUST BLANK.

AND THEN, UH, YES, THIS IS THEIR REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.

SO ONCE THE PROPOSED BUILDINGS ARE REMOVED, UM, THEY'RE PROPOSING THAT THE, UH, EXISTING BASKETBALL COURT WOULD STAY, THE EXISTING PLAYGROUND WOULD STAY IN THE EXISTING PARKING LOT WOULD STAY THE STREETS, UH, REMAIN IN THEIR CURRENT ALIGNMENT.

UH, A FEW OF THE SIDEWALKS, THE EXISTING PATHWAY, WHICH CONNECTS TO THE PARK WOULD STAY THE, UM, PIERS WOULD STAY.

AND, UH, MOST OF THE LARGE, ESPECIALLY THE LARGE TREES, BUT, UH, SEVERAL OF THE OTHER TREES WOULD ALSO REMAIN.

AND I'LL SCOOCH UP A LITTLE BIT HERE TO CATCH THE RIGHT TOP, SO MANY OF THE LARGE TREES WOULD REMAIN.

AND THAT IS THEIR APPLICATION.

WE HAVE OUR ZONING AND INSPECTIONS REPORT THAT WE DO AT THIS POINT.

AND, UM, CAN SEE THAT THEY, OOPS, WHERE IS IT? OH, NO.

I WILL HAVE TO FIND YOU THE ACTUAL SIGNED ONE.

AND THEN AFTER THAT WE HAVE OUR, UM, OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO IF YOU WANT TO PROCEED, I WILL FIND THAT SHEET WHILE YOU PROCEED AND WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT.

MY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE DON'T YET HAVE THE, UH, SHIPPO, UH, INFORMATION AND THEIR RECOMMENDATION IN TERMS OF RETENTION OF ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS.

THAT'S ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS.

UH, IN ORDER FOR YOU TO PROCEED WITH YOUR PROCESS AND YOU'VE TALKED WITH SHIPPO AND THAT COULD BE FORTHCOMING OR WOULD BE FORTHCOMING FOR THE OCTOBER MEETING? YES.

LIKELY

[00:20:01]

AND I ASSUME YOUR THOUGHT IS THAT WE CONTINUE UNTIL THE OCTOBER MEETING, SO THAT WOULD BE ONE APPROACH? YES.

SINCE THAT IS A REQUIREMENT, I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION WE CONTINUE THIS ITEM TILL THE OCTOBER MEETING.

FOURTH, MR. CHAIR.

THE, THE REASON FOR THAT MOTION WOULD BE TO OBTAIN INFORMATION TO THE REQUIRED INFORMATION TO OBTAIN INFORMATION, INFORMATION NECESSARY TO THE, TO THE PART OF THE DECISION WHICH IS RETENTION OF A BUILDING.

AND THAT INFORMATION WOULD NEED TO BE INCORPORATED INTO THE MOTION UNIT.

IT CAN IT BE CONDITIONAL? I WOULD NOT ADVISE THAT.

SEEING AS THE H P C PROCESS REQUIRES YOU TO CONSIDER SHIPPO'S OPINION BEFORE YOU RENDER A DECISION AS TO THE APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION.

WELL, IF, IF WE ARE GONNA CONTINUE, I ALSO DIDN'T SEE ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT IDENTIFYING A BUILDING OR, OR HOW THE, THE SALVAGED, UH, INDIVIDUAL HEIRLOOMS FROM THOSE BUILDINGS WOULD BE USED.

IS THAT PART OF THIS APPLICATION TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE? SO YES.

UH, IN THE, UM, UH, DESCRIPTION THAT THEY HAD, UH, THE EXTRA PAGE, I CAN GO TO THOSE ITEMS. UM, SO ITEM C I'LL MAKE THIS BIGGER, SORRY, ITEM C REMOVAL AND SALVAGE OF 34 CAST BAR RELEASE, LOCATED IN THE EXTERIOR ELEVATIONS OF CERTAIN BILLING BUILDINGS CAN BE DEMOLISHED.

UM, LET'S SEE.

HMM.

AND, UH, I THOUGHT, UH, WELL, I GUESS THE DRAWING SHOWS THE VARIOUS, UH, ELEMENTS THAT I SAID WOULD STILL REMAIN.

SO THE APPLICATION DOES NOT INCLUDE, UH, RETENTION OF A BUILDING? THAT'S CORRECT.

NO, IT, IT PROPOSES ALL 12 BUILDINGS, PLUS THE OFFICE BUILDING 12 RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS AND ONE OFFICE BUILDING TO BE ABOLISHED.

THAT WAS, THAT WAS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS.

AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION WAS, I, I SAW THIS, BUT MAYBE I'M NOT READING IT FULLY, THAT THEY WERE GOING TO SUBMIT A, UH, AT LEAST A SKETCH OF SOME OF THE IDEAS THEY HAD FOR THE USE OF THE RELEASE OR A MONUMENT OR A MEMORIAL OF SOME TYPE.

IS THAT PART OF THIS? SO, UH, THERE, THERE HAS BEEN NOTHING LIKE THAT SUBMITTED.

SO, SO TO FOLLOW ON THAT, UM, ONE OF MY QUESTIONS WAS WE HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT SOME OF THOSE BAR RELIEFS BEING IN THE OPEN SPACE.

RIGHT.

AND I DIDN'T SEE ANY INDICATIONS OF WHERE THEY MIGHT BE LOCATED.

RIGHT.

IS, IS THERE A MOTION TO CONTINUE FOR THE PURPOSE OF OBTAINING THE RECOMMENDATION? I THINK, I THINK YOU ASK THE QUESTION.

I'M SORRY, EXPLANATION SO I CAN USE CLARIFI.

I THINK WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET AN IDEA OF WHAT IS IN THE APPLICATION BEFORE WE, I MEAN, 'CAUSE IF IT'S NOT HERE, THEN IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD ADVISE THAT NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT HERE.

AND HOW, HOW LONG HAS JPO HAD, UM, TIME TO SUBMIT THIS TO US? WHEN DID WE NOTIFY THEM? HOW LONG? SO, UM, BECAUSE OF THE COMPLICATIONS OF ACCESS TO THE BUILDING, UM, IT TOOK SEVERAL WEEKS BEFORE THEY COULD BEGIN, UH, THE PROCESS.

SO, UM, THEIR CLOCK IS, THEIR 30 DAY CLOCK IS ALREADY STARTED, SO THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO PRODUCE THAT BY BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING ON OCTOBER 18TH.

SO THEY'VE ONLY HAD A 30, 30 DAY WINDOW TO, TO REVIEW THIS.

THAT'S THE, THAT'S THEIR, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THEIR INTERNAL REQUIREMENT OR STATE REQUIREMENT, BUT, UM, IT'S ALWAYS, UH, BEEN UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY ARE TO PROVIDE WITHIN 30 DAYS OF REQUEST.

WAS THEY HAVE FOUND IN THEIR RECORDS THAT THERE ARE NO, UM, BUILDINGS IN NEW BERN THAT ARE LISTED ON THEIR LIST OF STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE.

I JUST HAVE TO ASK BECAUSE TWO WEEKS AGO YOU TOLD US THEY WERE NOT GOING TO YEAH.

THEY WERE GONNA BE LIKE, THEY WERE NOT GOING TO, AND THERE WERE NO STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANT BUILDINGS IN NEWVILLE.

NO.

SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT THING.

RIGHT.

SO WE HAVE, UM, WE, THREE SPECIFIC ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS.

UM, FIRST IS WHETHER OR NOT THE STRUCTURE QUALIFIES AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, UM, IN A LOCALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICT AND IS 50 YEARS OR OLDER.

RIGHT? THE SECOND ONE IS SHIPPO HAS DETERMINED WHETHER THE STRUCTURE HAS STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE.

AND THAT WAS, UH, WHAT I MENTIONED

[00:25:01]

AND THEN THE THIRD ONE IS THAT SHIPPO IS TO EVALUATE THE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR OF THE STRUCTURE AND PROVIDE A WRITTEN EVALUATION AND OPINION ON THE ARCHITECTURAL HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STRUCTURE.

SO YOU DIDN'T SAY THAT JOHN WOODEN HAD RESIGNED AND YOU WERE NOT, THEY WERE NOT GOING TO COME.

UH, I, I DON'T THINK I SAID IT AS DEFINITIVE, BUT RATHER THAT HE DID RESIGN.

AND SO IT MAY BE DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO GET SOMEONE TO COME, BUT, SO, BUT IN THE MEANTIME, THEY HAVE SAID SOMEONE WILL BE COMING.

SO, UH, AND SO IN THE PROCESS, UH, THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT ACCESS INTO THE BUILDINGS AND THE SAFETY OF THAT.

AND WE WERE ADVISED THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE A, UH, PO IF POSSIBLE.

IT WOULD ONLY BE POSSIBLE IF, UH, UM, A PRO THIRD PARTY WAS HIRED TO PROVIDE THE SAFETY, UM, THE SAFE ENTRY INTO THE, INTO THE BUILDINGS.

SO WE THEN OPTED TO SEND THEM, UH, THE PHOTOGRAPHS, THE HUNDREDS OF PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I MENTIONED, UH, FOR THEIR REVIEW FOR THE INTERIORS.

UH, AND THEN, UM, STILL THEY WOULD BE, UH, VISITING THE SITE FOR THE EXTERIORS.

AND SO NOW THAT'S A PROCESS THAT STARTED, UH, ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO.

AND I ENDED UP GETTING THEM THE PHOTOGRAPHS ABOUT THREE, FOUR DAYS AGO.

BUT WE DID ASK FOR IT AT THE LAST MEETING.

THAT'S CORRECT.

AND THAT'S THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE EVER ASKED FOR IT FOR, TO, FOR THEM TO, FOR THIS PROJECT, YOU MEAN? YEAH.

'CAUSE IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A COUPLE YEARS.

SO AFTER A, SO THE, THE SPECIFIC TIMELINE IS, UH, THE DAY OR TWO AFTER THE LAST MEETING, I SENT THE EMAIL REQUESTING, UH, THEM TO DO THIS.

UH, THEY REQUIRED, THEY, UH, SENT BACK AN EMAIL, UH, STATING THAT THEY NEEDED A COPY OF THE C O A APPLICATION.

UH, AND THEN WHEN I PROVIDED THAT, THEN UH, THEY ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT, UH, THE SAFETY.

AND SO THEN THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION BACK AND FORTH ABOUT THAT AND WHAT, UH, THE POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS COULD BE FOR THEM.

AND SO THAT'S, IT ENDED UP TAKING ANOTHER WEEK OR TWO TO GET THAT ALL IRONED OUT.

SO NOW WE'RE, UM, UH, ALL NOW WE HAVE THE 30 DAY CLOCK HAS ALREADY STARTED FOR THEM.

SO THAT IT WILL BE BY THE NEXT MEETING, BUT IT CANNOT BE BY, OBVIOUSLY COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED BY TONIGHT.

BEFORE WE ENTERTAIN A MOTION, CAN WE SEE IF THE APPLICANT HAS ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR SAY THAT AGAIN? SORRY, I, I'M ASKING A QUESTION BEFORE WE ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

, SHOULD THE APPLICANT INTRODUCE ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THEY MIGHT HAVE? I MEAN, SOME, WE'VE GOT QUESTIONS ABOUT A COMPLETE APPLICATION.

WELL, THE QUE THE QUESTION, IT SEEMS TO BE, THE QUESTION WOULD BE, DOES, DOES THAT PLACE AN UNDUE HARDSHIP ON THE APPLICANT TO DELAY ONE MORE MONTH? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE ANY.

UH, YEAH, THAT'S THE QUESTION I WOULD POSE TO HER.

DOES THE APPLICATION, I MEAN, DOES THE APPLICANT HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THEY WANT? IF YOU HAVE AN ANSWER, PLEASE COME TO THE MICROPHONE.

AND MR. CHAIR, JUST AS A POINT OF CLARITY, IN THE APPLICATION, I THINK MS. ASKEW IS INDICATED AS THE PROPERTY OWNER ON THE APPLICATION.

THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY IS THE NEW BERN HOUSING AUTHORITY.

AND MS. ASKEW IS ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE AS SHE'S THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.

NEED, UH, PRIOR TO, UM, LEAVING.

UM, I DON'T HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, BUT I REALLY JUST NEEDED SOME CLARITY 'CAUSE I'LL JUST LISTENED TO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU ALL POINTED OUT THAT WE NEEDED TO PROVIDE AND WE DIDN'T PROVIDE.

BUT I WASN'T AWARE THAT YOU ALL NEEDED SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.

'CAUSE I TRULY WOULD'VE, UM, BEEN PREPARED AND HAD IT READY FOR YOU, UM, PRIOR TO NOW.

UM, YOU KNOW, MY CONCERN IS THAT, UM, I JUST HEARD YOU MENTION THAT SHIPPER WAS REQUESTING THAT WE KEEP A BUILDING AND THAT WAS NEVER A PART OF ANY DISCUSSION WITH THEM.

UM, FOR THE MOST PART, THAT WAS ONLY IN DISCUSSION WITH YOU ALL.

SO, UM, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THAT DECISION WOULD COME FROM YOU AND NOT FROM THE STATE, UM, AGENCY.

SO I JUST KIND OF REALLY NEED TO HAVE CLARITY ON THAT, UM, POINT THAT YOU ALL MADE.

AND THEN ALSO, UM, I HEARD YOU MENTION THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT WE PLAN TO DO WITH THE BAR RELEASE.

I WASN'T AWARE OF THAT EITHER.

UM, 'CAUSE WE WOULD'VE TRIED TO PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER FOR YOU TO SEE.

UM, WE JUST MENTIONED THAT WE WOULD REUSE THOSE IN OTHER PLACES SO THAT THEY CAN BE, UM, STILL SEEN AND WE WOULD, UM, MAINTAIN THE USE OF THOSE.

SO, UM, I JUST REALLY WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE PROVIDE YOU ALL, EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO NEED.

AND, UM, THE HARDSHIP FOR THE AGENCY WOULD BE THAT, UM, I RESIGNED ON FRIDAY AND I BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR TWO YEARS.

AND I REALLY WANT YOU ALL TO HAVE EVERYTHING THAT YOU

[00:30:01]

SO IF I COULD KNOW TONIGHT EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED, UM, SO THAT I CAN MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THAT BEFORE I GO.

DID, DID YOU GET A COPY OF THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION? UM, DID YOU, YES.

SO I MEAN THERE WERE SOME, WELL THERE WERE SOME, I GAVE YOU THE LINK.

I GAVE YOU THE LINK TO IT FOR THE RECOMMENDATIONS.

THERE WERE SOME THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO RESPOND TO.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS.

UM, IS THERE ANY FINANCIAL ISSUE WITH, UH, DELAY? UM, THE FINANCIAL ISSUES THAT WE DO HAVE, UM, IF WE ARE REQUIRED TO KEEP THAT BUILDING, UM, THE AGENCY WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING IT.

AND WE OPERATE BASED ON SUBSIDY THAT'S PROVIDED TO US FROM HUD.

AND IF THAT BUILDING IS, UM, SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP, THEY WILL NOT PROVIDE, UM, ASSISTANCE FOR US TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

UM, WHICH WOULD DO, WOULD DEFINITELY PUT A HARDSHIP ON THE AGENCY BECAUSE YEAH, I GUESS REALLY IS, IS THERE A HARDSHIP FROM DELAYING, HOWEVER? OH, DELAYING IT.

WE'RE NOT INTO THE HARDSHIP WOULD BE FOR ME 'CAUSE I'M NOT GONNA BE HERE BUT , SO THEY, THERE'S NO, YOU KNOW, AND IT'LL BE HARD FOR THE AGENCY TO BE ABLE TO FIND SOMEBODY WITH THE WORK AND THE KNOWLEDGE THAT I HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PUT THAT IN.

BECAUSE I MEAN, THAT PERSON THAT WILL COME MAY NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE WHAT YOU NEED BY OCTOBER 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT'S GOING ON.

BUT IS THERE A HARD DEADLINE OF YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS IN BY X DATE.

THERE, THERE ACTUALLY WAS QUITE LENGTHY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE BUILDING AND WHERE IT WOULD BE AND HOW IT WOULD BE UTILIZED AND IF NOT IN THE PART A THEN IDENTIFIED WHERE THERE WERE QUESTION MARKS WHEN WE HAD THESE DISCUSSIONS.

SO I I, THOSE QUESTION MARKS I THINK WERE WHAT WAS BEING PUT OUT THERE.

AND THEN THE SOLUTIONS WOULD BE WHAT YOU WOULD BRING TO US FOR THOSE QUESTION MARKS.

SO I WANT TO FIRST ADDRESS YOUR COMMENTS RELATED TO THE, THE BAR RELEASES AND THE MONUMENTS.

AND SO KIND OF GOING BACK TO THE APPLICATION ITSELF, ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN WE LEFT THE MEETING, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, WE HAD LENGTHY DISCUSSION AROUND PUTTING SOMETHING BACK ON THE PROPERTY, WHAT WE LOOKED AT BASED ON THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE APPLICATION.

SO I THINK IT'S TWOFOLD AND I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE COMPARING APPLES TO APPLE.

SO WHAT WE TRIED TO DO, AS TIFFANY ALLUDED TO, IS WE TRIED TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS WITHIN THE APPLICATION OF C O A AND SUBMIT THAT TO YOU ALL.

PART OF THE M O A THAT WOULD BE DEVELOPED AND SIGNED OFF ON BETWEEN SHIPPO, THE HOUSING AGENCY AND THE CITY WOULD INCORPORATE WHAT THOSE SPECIFIC THINGS WOULD BE RELATED TO WHAT WOULD GO BACK USING THOSE BAR RELEASES, WHETHER IT GOES ON BUILDINGS, WHETHER IT GOES IN THE PARK, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

SO THAT GOES INTO THE M O A THAT WE WOULD HAVE SIGNED OFF ON BETWEEN THE CITY SHIPPO AND THE HOUSING AGENCY.

SO WE LOOKED AT THAT REQUIREMENT AS THE SECOND PART OF WHAT WE SUBMITTED IN AN APPLICATION.

SO AS, AS TIFFANY INDICATED, IF WE KNEW THAT THAT ALSO NEEDED TO SPECIFICALLY BE A PART OF THE C O A APPLICATION, WE WOULD'VE INCLUDED IT.

BUT WE WORKED OFF OF THAT, THAT WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE, THE IRAN MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT.

THE OTHER QUESTION RELATED TO THE HARDSHIP, WE, WE HAVE A CALL WITH FEMA TOMORROW, WHICH HAS BEEN POSTPONED.

IF YOU ALL REMEMBER FROM THE LAST MEETING, THE DISCUSSION WAS AROUND FEMA'S INTERPRETATION AS WELL AS SHIPPO'S INTERPRETATION THAT THE CITY WAS NOT WILLING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE DEMOLITION.

WE CLEARED THAT UP AT THE PREVIOUS MEETING THAT WE WERE ALL IN AGREEMENT THAT THAT WAS NOT THE CASE.

WE'VE ARTICULATED THAT BACK TO FEMA, UH, BASED ON THAT PREVIOUS MEETING WITH YOU ALL, EVERYBODY IS ON BOARD AND IS HAPPY BASED ON THAT INFORMATION.

SO WHAT SHIPPO DID IS MOVE THE MEETING, THE FOLLOW UP MEETING TO TOMORROW BECAUSE THE EXPECTATION WAS AT THIS MEETING WE WOULD GET THE APPROVAL FOR THE DEMOLITION AND WHETHER OR NOT, WHICH THE, THE BIGGEST CONTINGENT WAS WHETHER OR NOT A BUILDING WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE KEPT OR NOT KEPT.

THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT WAS REALLY OUTSTANDING BASED ON THAT COMMUNICATION.

SO WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR IS FEMA'S LOOKING, WAS HOPING THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THEM TOMORROW WITH THE APPROVAL FROM TONIGHT.

THEY WOULD THEN TAKE THAT APPROVAL.

THEY REQUESTED THAT WE NOT SUBMIT THAT DIRECTLY TO SHIPPO, THAT WE SUBMITTED TO FEMA, AND THEN FEMA'S REPRESENTATIVE WOULD WORK WITH THE SHIPPO TO BE ABLE TO, TO DRAFT REQUIREMENTS GOING FORWARD.

BUT THAT COMMUNICATION WOULD GO BETWEEN FEMA AND SHIPPO.

BUT AS TIFFANY ALLUDED TO, WE HAD NO INDICATION FROM SHIPPO ALL ALONG THAT THEIR CONCERN, AND AS YOU ALL INDICATED TONIGHT, THERE'S NO CON CONTRIBUTING FACTORS THAT THERE'S ANY HISTORIC BUILDING THAT'S OF SIGNIFICANCE FROM SHIPPO STANDPOINT WITHIN THE NEWIN AREA.

[00:35:01]

SO I DON'T SEE WHERE THEY PROBABLY WOULD COME BACK AND HAVE A REQUIREMENT NECESSARILY FOR BUILDING.

WELL, WE, WE DON'T KNOW.

WE DON'T KNOW.

BUT I HOPE IT IS OTHERWISE.

BUT WHAT WE WERE HOPING FOR IS TO GET A DEFINITIVE ANSWER TONIGHT AS FAR AS YOUR VOTE UP OR DOWN ON THE DEMOLITION AND WHETHER OR NOT A BUILDING NEEDED TO BE KEPT.

YOU'RE CORRECT.

WE SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION AS I DESIRE HAS ALWAYS BEEN FROM DAY ONE.

AND THAT IS NOT TO KEEP ONE OF THOSE DAMAGED BUILDINGS.

HOWEVER, WE, IN PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS, WE DID SAY IF YOU WERE GOING TO REQUIRE ONE TO BE KEPT THAT THEN IT WOULD BE BUILDING J AS TIFFANY INDICATED.

HUD HAS INDICATED AS WELL AS FEMA HAS INDICATED TO US AS WELL, THAT EVEN IF POTENTIALLY MONIES ARE GIVEN TO RESTORE THE BUILDING, NO FUNDING WILL BE PROVIDED ON AN ONGOING BASIS TO MAINTAIN THOSE BUILDINGS.

SO I KNOW PREVIOUS YOUR REQUIREMENT IS NOT THAT YOU CAN REQUIRE SOMEBODY TO MAINTAIN IT FINANCIALLY, AS TIFFANY INDICATED, IT DOES PUT A HARDSHIP ON THE AGENCY BECAUSE AS ALL OF THESE BUILDINGS ARE DEMOLISHED AND NEW FUNDING IS AVAILABLE FROM FEMA AND OTHER THINGS TO FACILITATE THE REBUILDING OF THOSE UNITS, THEY WON'T HAVE HUD FUNDING TIED TO IT.

I THINK THAT I'D ENCOURAGE YOU TO PUT THAT TOGETHER IF THIS GETS DELAYED TO PUT THAT RESPONSE TOGETHER.

BECAUSE THIS, THIS BOARD WILL DECIDE THAT QUESTION.

SURE.

UM, SHIPPO I GUESS IS TALKING TO YOU FROM TWO DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

SCHEDULING THE MEETING FOR TOMORROW.

YOU TELLING US, WELL, FEMA'S NOT SHIPPO, YOU SAID SHIPPO SCHEDULED THEIR MEETING IS WHAT? NO, FEMA, FEMA SCHEDULED THEIR MEETING WITH US TOMORROW.

WE PUSHED IT BACK TO TOMORROW BASED ON THIS.

'CAUSE THE NEXT, SORRY.

THE AGENCY SUBMITTED THEIR APPLICATION TO THIS BODY BASED ON THEIR REQUEST, WHICH WAS NOT TO KEEP A BUILDING.

THE NEXT PHASE FOR FEMA WAS EVERYBODY'S WAITING ON THIS DEMOLITION APPROVAL.

YEP.

SO I, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERYONE AND, AND I SEE A CHICKEN AND EGG COMING HERE.

UM, BUT I CAN TELL YOU MY POSITION AND I THINK I'VE SHARED IT WITH YOU SEVERAL TIMES.

I I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME.

WELL, I KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME.

I HAVE A SUSPICION IT MAY BE IMPORTANT TO OTHERS.

I, I HEAR MS. CANDACE KINDA SPEAKING WHAT I WAS PREPARED TO SAY TONIGHT.

UM, BUT IT, IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME THAT WE IDENTIFY A BUILDING TO SAVE AND IT NEEDS TO BE PART OF THE APPLICATION.

NOW GRANTED, I'VE, I HEAR YOU.

I I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT AND IF YOU WERE GIVEN THE CHOICE, YOU WOULD ELECT NOT TO DO THAT.

UM, BUT I ANTICIPATE A DELIBERATION OF THIS BOARD WHEN WE'RE IN A POSITION TO, TO ACT TO GET THE THUMBS UP OR THUMBS DOWN YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.

I HAVE MY NOTES.

UM, THERE IS AN OPPOSITE POSITION TO THAT.

UH, YEAH.

AND I, I THINK YOU SAW THAT AT OUR LAST, UH, DESIGN REVIEW MEETING.

WE, WE ACTUALLY, UM, HAD A, UH, A VERY ENGAGING CONVERSATION THAT ASKED SOME VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT HADN'T BEEN REVISITED SINCE YOU, UH, UH, TOOK OFF ON THIS JOURNEY.

UM, THAT'S, YOU'RE FOUR OR FIVE YEARS INTO IT NOW.

AND SO, UM, IT WASN'T UNTIL, UH, JIM ASKED ME THAT QUESTION THAT I REALIZED THAT I'M THE ONLY GUY WHO WAS AROUND FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO, APPARENTLY, WHEN THESE PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS WERE HAD.

AND SO, UM, NO, BY NO MEANS ARE WE BOUND TO A PREVIOUS BOARD'S DESIRES 'CAUSE YOU'RE HERE NOW IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD.

SURE.

BUT, UM, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY, UH, SOME THINGS WE HAVE TO IRON OUT AMONGST OURSELVES THAT WE CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT THE OUTCOME WILL BE AHEAD OF TIME.

SO, AND I THINK THE RATIONALE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WAS THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DEMOLISHING THAT NUMBER OF BUILDINGS, THAT THERE REALLY NEEDS TO BE A NOD TO THE FACT THAT WE DEMOLISH THAT MANY BUILDINGS AND THIS CONTINGENCY OR THIS, THIS, UH, PROVISION THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME TYPE OF A, OF A, I DON'T WANT TO, UH, CREATE YOUR SCENARIO, RIGHT.

BUT THERE WAS, THERE WAS TALK ABOUT DO WE MAKE IT A SHELTER AND JUST AN OPEN HOUSE WITH, I MEAN THERE, THERE WAS THIS DISCUSSION.

SURE.

AND, AND THE RATIONALE IS NOT TO MAKE IT DIFFICULT OR MORE HOOPS TO JUMP, IT'S SIMPLY TO, TO MAKE A NOD TO THE FACT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF BUILDINGS BEING DEMOLISHED AND HOW DO, HOW DO WE, WHAT SOLUTIONS DO WE BRING, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT? AND SO THAT, THAT WAS DEFINITELY A DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD.

NO, NO, NO.

I WASN'T DISCOUNTING THAT.

IT WASN'T A DISCUSSION.

YEAH, UNDERSTOOD.

I WAS JUST, JUST SHARING.

SO, SO IN AN EFFORT TO HELP, RIGHT, I, I'D SAY BUILDING L OKAY.

AND YOU KNOW, BUT THIS IS YOUR PROJECT AND YOUR APPLICATION AND BY ALL MEANS, IT'S UP TO YOU TO DECIDE HOW YOU WOULD, YOU KNOW, WHICH BUILDING YOU THINK MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE SHOULD THE BOARD DETERMINE THAT YOU NEED TO, TO SAVE ONE.

IN ALL FAIRNESS, UH, TO YOUR POINT, AND I JUST, AGAIN FOR CLARIFICATION,

[00:40:01]

I'M NOT TRYING TO TELL YOU YOUR JOB.

UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND YOUR RESPONSIBILITY BASED ON THE APPLICATION WE ASSUMED WAS YOU THEN WOULD DETERMINE IF THAT APPLICATION THAT WE SUBMITTED TO KEEP NO BUILDING YOU ALL WOULD THEN REQUIRE BACK TO US IF WE NEEDED TO KEEP A BUILDING.

BUT OUR APPLICATION BASED ON OUR PREFERENCE WAS NOT TO KEEP A BUILDING.

CORRECT.

I I I HEAR YOU.

THAT'S, AND, AND MAYBE, AND MAYBE YOUR ANSWER IS WE DON'T INTEND TO KEEP A BUILDING AND SO THAT'S WHY THAT'S NOT IDENTIFIED IN THE APPLICATION.

AND, AND, AND I GET THAT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

AND THAT'S WHY I SAID OUR APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED TO NOT TO KEEP ONE.

HOWEVER, IF THIS BODY REQUIRES ONE TO BE KEPT AND THAT'S THE VOTE, THEN WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO DO IT.

BUT I WANT TO BE FAIR, BASED ON THE AGENCY, THE AGENCY SUBMITTED TO NOT KEEP A I GOT YOU.

AND THAT BUILDING IS, IS OUR DECISION.

IT'S NOT A SHIPPO ISSUE REALLY.

CORRECT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

AND THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT TIFFANY WAS ALLUDED TO WHEN WE HEARD THAT SHIPPO WAS MAKING A DECISION ON THE BUILDING.

WE WANTED CLARIFICATION.

'CAUSE SHIPPO HAS NOT BEEN INVOLVED OR REQUIRED TO KEEP A BUILDING THAT ONLY DISCUSSION HAS OCCURRED AT THIS LOCAL, THEY'RE MAKING AN OPINION ON, ON THE HISTORICAL VALUE OF ALL OF THOSE BUILDINGS.

THAT'S CORRECT.

YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.

AND, AND WHICH COULD INFLUENCE OUR CHOICE OF, OF DO WE WANT TO SAVE ONE? YES, SIR.

AND AGAIN, ON BACK, I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR THE BOARD AND THE AGENCY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WE ARE, WE ARE WILLING TO ADHERE TO YOUR VOTE AND YOUR REQUIREMENTS.

HOWEVER, OUR APPLICATION PREFERENCE WISE WAS NOT TO KEEP A BILL.

SO, SO MR. CHAIRMAN, WITHOUT STEPPING ON YOUR TOES HERE, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE NEED TO COME BACK TO DESIGN REVIEW AGAIN, IF YOU DON'T MIND.

JUST TO TALK ABOUT WHAT, HOW THAT'S GOING TO WORK.

PROCEDURALLY, I I DON'T SUGGEST WE GET INTO THAT TONIGHT, BUT, UH, UM, SO YOU, YOU MIGHT WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH US, KEITH, OR NOT KEITH, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SO WE CAN MOVE FORWARD AT THAT.

WELL, I THINK THERE'S A LIMITATION ON, YOU KNOW, DENIAL OF AN APPLICATION CREATES SOME PROBLEMS AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T FALL INTO THAT TRAP WHERE YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING.

RIGHT? YEAH.

YOU KNOW, SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE STRATEGY YOU'RE USING, WHICH IS A VALID ONE.

AND AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE DETAILS AND THE REHASH, UM, IF IT WERE ME, I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO DENY YOUR APPLICATION AND ASSUMING IT FLIES THAT THAT COULD CREATE SOME MAJOR PROBLEMS FOR YOU.

SO WE, BUT WE CAN'T GIVE YOU AN ANSWER AT THAT DESIGN REVIEW.

WE CAN ONLY TALK.

SO I, SO BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU'RE GONNA, I THINK WE HAVE TALKED AND RECOMMEND AND THEN WE SHOULD JUST, WE HAVE TALKED A LOT.

I'D SAY READ, READ THIS RECOMMENDATION.

THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION I THINK WILL OUTLINE FOR YOU.

I, I THINK YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH WITHOUT GOING DOWN THAT PATH AND STILL HAVE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER AT THE END OF A HEARING.

I MEAN, I THINK YOU COULD HAVE HAD AN ANSWER TO MIKE WITHOUT SHIPPO, UH, DELAYING BE CONDITIONAL.

I THINK WE WERE PREPARED TO GIVE YOU AN ANSWER.

AND SO THIS SHIPPO IS NEW TO ME.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S NEW TO EVERYBODY, NEW TO ME AS WELL.

UM, AND YOU DON'T RECOMMEND SHIPPO DOING IT.

INFORMATION IS NOT, IT IS NOT, IT IS NOT KEEPING A SPECIFIC BUILDING.

IT'S, IT'S PART OF OUR PROCESS.

NO, NO.

BUT THE FACT THAT THEY'VE NOW, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD AT DESIGN REVIEW UNTIL WHAT I HEAR TONIGHT YEAH.

IS SHIPPO NOW DOES WANT TO COMMENT.

THEY WANT TO COMMENT.

THAT, THAT HAS BEEN CHANGED AND THAT IS A BIG CHANGE.

OH YEAH.

SO JUST FOR, SO JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, 'CAUSE I'VE HEARD A COUPLE DIFFERENT THINGS.

THE APPLICATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED, YOU ALL ARE WAITING ON SHIPPO'S RESPONSE AND THEN ACTION WILL BE TAKEN BASED ON THE AGENCY'S APPLICATION ON A VOTER UP OR DOWN, HAVING TO GO BACK THROUGH A PROTRACTED PROCESS.

IS THAT CORRECT? I THINK THAT'S CORRECT.

BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION THAT GETS DENIED? NO.

MR. CHAIRMAN, THE SPIRIT OF BEING HELPFUL, I THINK THE GENTLEMAN IS CORRECT THAT AT THIS JUNCTURE, THIS BODY IS REQUIRED TO CONSIDER SHIPPO'S INPUT AS TO THEIR EVALUATION OF INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR STRUCTURES, UM, AND THEIR OPINION ABOUT ARCHITECTURAL, HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF EACH OF THE STRUCTURES IN THE APPLICATION.

REFLECT UPON THAT INFORMATION, CONSIDER THE APPLICATION AS IT'S SUBMITTED AND EN ENTERTAIN EVIDENCE, COMPETENT EVIDENCE, AND THEN MAKE A DECISION BASED ON THE COMPETENT EVIDENCE CONTAINED IN THE RECORD, WHETHER THAT IS FOR, AGAINST OR WITH CONDITIONS.

ONCE THIS BODY RECEIVES SHIPPO'S ASSESSMENT OF EACH OF THE STRUCTURES CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION AND THEIR VALUE OR LACK THEREOF, YOU ALL CAN

[00:45:01]

YEP.

AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THE CONDITION MIGHT WELL BE ABOUT A SECOND BILL.

ANOTHER BUILDING A CONDITION WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME REASONABLE CONDITION THAT'S GERMANE TO THE PROJECT THAT IS SUBSTANTIATED BY THE COMPETENT EVIDENCE CONTAINED IN THE RECORD AND IN THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, YOU WILL SEE A PROPOSED MOTION LIKE THAT.

AND I THINK THE AGENCY WAS PREPARED FOR THAT AS SHE INDICATED.

THAT'S ALL WE'RE ASKING IS WE SUBMITTED IT.

YOU ALL COULD GO THROUGH YOUR PROCESS AND THEN WE'RE BOUND BY YOUR DECISION.

YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SUBMIT WHAT YOU WANT, NOT WHAT WE WANT.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID.

AND SO, AND, AND THAT'S WHY I SAID WE'RE BOUND BY YOUR DECISION AFTER THAT, BUT WE SUBMITTED WHAT WE WANT.

THE, THE QUESTION IS, DO I HAVE A MOTION TO CONTINUE BASED ON OUR LACK OF SHIPPO INPUT INTO THE PROCESS ARTICULATED VERY WELL BY OUR ATTORNEY? I DO THINK IT SHOULD GO FOR THE RECORD THAT THIS IS NEW INFORMATION TO THIS BODY.

THIS IS SINCE OUR, UH, LAST MEETING.

SO WE'RE RESPONDING TO INFORMATION WE ALL DID NOT HAVE AT THE LAST MEETING.

RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

I MOVE THAT WE CONTINUE UNTIL NEXT MEETING.

I THINK MR. PARSON'S MOTION IS THAT HE MOVES TO CONTINUE THE APPLICATION FOR 8 37 SOUTH FRONT STREET TO THE OCTOBER REGULAR SCHEDULE MEETING OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION TO BE HELD IN THE CITY HALL COURTROOM TO OBTAIN ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FROM THE STATE HISTORICAL PRESERVATION OFFICE.

THANK YOU, MAYOR.

THAT YES, SIR.

THERE A SECOND FOR THAT MOTION.

SECOND MOVED AND SECOND TO CONTINUE UNTIL THE, UH, OCTOBER MEETING.

ALL IN FAVOR STATE AYE.

AYE.

OPPOSED? A MOTION CARRIES.

THANK YOU.

DO YOU MATT? YES.

WE HAVE NO OTHER, UH, APPLICATIONS TO CONSIDER.

THAT'S CORRECT.

WHAT ELSE DO WE HAVE? UH, NO OLD BUSINESS.

ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS WE'RE LOSING ARE PUBLIC.

DOES THIS GENTLEMAN HAVE A COMMENT? ? NO SIR.

I'M HERE FOR THE MEETING.

UH, WORKING WITH OH, OKAY.

DIRECTOR.

WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME.

WELCOME.

AND HIS NAME IS ROBERT .

USUALLY BETTER THAN THIS, ROBERT.

WE'RE MAKING A LITTLE SAUSAGE TONIGHT.

ANYTHING TO DISCUSS UNDER YOUR REPORT? NONE FROM ME, .

UM, THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PIECES ON THIS PARTICULAR 2018.

WHAT, UH, NEW BUSINESS? NONE.

UH,

[8. HPC Administrator’s Report: A. Report on CoAs Issued 08/04/2023 – 09/08/2023 MAJORS: 719 E. Front St. 3 pending MINORS: 202 and 204 Craven St. – awning fabric About 15 pending info from applicants B. Report on CoA Extensions Issued since the Prior Regular Meeting: none C. Other Items and Updates by the Administrator]

ANY COMMENTS BY THE COMMISSIONERS? SO WE'RE MOVING ALONG.

I COULD HERD A TURTLE ON THIS, RIGHT? OKAY.

MOTION TO ADJOURN.

ADJOURN.

SECONDED.

WE ADJOURN? ALL IN FAVOR? STATE? AYE.

AYE.

OPPOSED? WE ARE ADJOURNED.

THAT WAS GREG THAT DID THE, GREG DID YOU DO THE MOTION TO ADJOURN? YES.