[00:00:03]
OKAY, I GUESS WE'LL OPEN UP A UNOFFICIAL MEETING 'CAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A QUORUM, BUT, UM, I BELIEVE WE'RE ON LIVE TV.[1. Discussion of Modernization of Land Use Ordinance]
I WILL, UH, TURN THIS OVER TO YOU.SO, A, AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH, UH, CHAD MEADOWS WITH CODE WRIGHT TO, TO WORK ON OUR UPDATE FOR OUR LAND USE ORDINANCE.
AND SO, UH, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME DISCUSSIONS TODAY.
HE'S GONNA LEAD THE BOARD THROUGH SOME, SOME GOOD DISCUSSION AND, AND, UM, UH, HOPEFULLY WE WILL HAVE SOME, SOME GOOD INPUT AS WE GO THROUGH THIS TIME.
AND AT THIS TIME, I'M GONNA ASK JESSICA RU TO, TO DO SOME INTRODUCTIONS FOR US.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME THIS AFTERNOON.
IT'S A PLEASURE TO TURN THIS OVER TO CHAD WITH CORY.
AS THE MANAGER JUST SAID, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING TIRELESSLY BEHIND THE SCENES TO IDENTIFY WHERE WE NEED UPDATES AND WHERE WE CAN ADD EFFICIENCY TO OUR LAND USE ORDINANCE AND OUR DEVELOPMENT PROCESSES.
WE HAVE GOTTEN TO A POINT WHERE WE HAVE AN ANNOTATED OUTLINE OF WHAT OUR BRAND NEW ORDINANCE IS PROPOSED TO LOOK LIKE.
SOME OF YOU HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF COMING IN AND MEETING ABOUT THIS ONE-ON-ONE AND ASKING SOME QUESTIONS, AND WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME DOING THAT.
UM, AND SO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TODAY IS WALK THROUGH WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE AND TALK THROUGH SOME OF THE PROCEDURAL CHANGES TO GET YOUR INPUT, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR ASSUMPTIONS MOVING FORWARD, THAT YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO OPERATE THIS WAY, UM, AS WE START BUILDING MORE CONTENT AROUND WHAT WILL GO INTO THE SHELL OF THIS ANNOTATED OUTLINE.
AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO MR. MEADOWS.
I'M CHAD MEADOWS WITH CODE WRIGHT.
THANK YOU FOR THE CHANCE TO, UH, TO MEET WITH YOU.
I REALLY, REALLY APPRECIATE YOU GUYS MAKING SOME TIME.
UM, THIS, IT, IT IS VERY TYPICAL FOR US TO CHECK IN, UH, WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS WHEN WE'RE AT THIS STAGE IN THE PROCESS.
AND BY THIS STAGE, I MEAN AN AN ANNOTATED OUTLINE, UH, OF THE DRAFT REGULATION.
AND SO WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST, UH, IF IT'S, IF IT PLEASES YOU, I'D LIKE TO TAKE ABOUT HOUR AND A HALF, TWO HOURS, UH, WALK YOU THROUGH SOME OF THE REASONS WHY WE DO THE ANNOTATED OUTLINE, SOME OF THE CONTENT THAT ARE, THAT IS INSIDE THE OUTLINE ITSELF.
UH, I'VE GOT SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU, UH, TO PONDER.
UM, AND I HOPE THAT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO PROVIDE ME A LITTLE BIT OF INPUT AS WE GO FORWARD.
I'LL FINISH THE CONVERSATION WITH KIND OF WHAT WE, WHAT WE WOULD EXPECT TO HAPPEN NEXT.
UH, WHICH BY THE WAY, IS A SERIES OF FACILITATED, UH, FOCUS GROUPS ROUNDTABLE MEETINGS WITH DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES HERE IN THE CITY, UH, IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER.
UH, SO SORT SORT OF MORE DETAILED FOLLOW ON QUESTIONS ABOUT SOME OF THIS MATERIAL.
SO IF, IF IT'S OKAY WITH YOU, I WILL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.
YOU SHOULD HAVE IN FRONT OF PLEASE, SIR, JUST, UH, MAKE A POINT OF ORDER.
UH, WE NOW HAVE A QUORUM, SO WE WILL OFFICIALLY START THE MEETING NOW.
YOU SHOULD HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU TWO PIECES OF PAPER.
UM, THE FIRST IS CALLED, UH, NEW NEW BERN LAND USE ORDINANCE REVIEW OF ANNOTATED OUTLINE.
IT'S THE ONE THAT HAS THE YELLOW BARS AND LOOKS LIKE THIS.
AND THIS IS WHAT I'M GONNA BE TALKING FROM.
THERE IS ALSO IN FRONT OF YOU A COPY OF A MEMORANDUM THAT I PREPARED, UH, TO PLANNING STAFF WITH RESPECT TO SOME, UH, DESIGN ASPECTS IN SOME OF THE, UH, ZONING DISTRICT OVERLAYS HERE IN NEW BERN.
I, UH, WILL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS IF WE NEED TO, BUT WE WANTED TO BE SURE THAT YOU HAD A COPY OF THAT AS I, AS I MOVE INTO DISCUSSING SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT WE WOULD PROPOSE WITH RESPECT TO SOME OF THE OVERLAY DISTRICTS HERE IN THE CITY.
SO, WITH THAT, UH, PLEASE DO STOP ME, UH, AT ANY TIME WITH QUESTIONS.
I THINK MAYBE, UH, WE MIGHT TAKE FIVE MINUTES, UH, AFTER WE GET THROUGH THE ZONING MAP CHANGES, ITEM NUMBER THREE ON THE PIECE OF PAPER IN FRONT OF YOU, UM, IF, IF YOU GUYS WISH TO.
SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.
UM, THE FIRST SORT OF, UH, THING THAT I WANNA MENTION TO YOU IS WHAT, WHAT IS THIS ANNOTATED OUTLINE THAT WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT? AND SO, UM, AN ANNOTATED OUTLINE IS BASICALLY ADDRESS REHEARSAL FOR YOUR LAND USE ORDINANCE.
UM, IT, IT DOCUMENTS THE, THE DOC, THE NEW CODES STRUCTURE, THE NUMBER OF CHAPTERS THAT ARE IN THERE, THE SECTIONS THAT ARE IN THERE.
UH, IT PROVIDES DETAIL ON EACH SECTION.
THERE ARE ALSO WITHIN THIS ANNOTATED OUTLINE, UH, A SUMMARY TABLE OF NEW REVIEW PROCEDURES, A ZONING DISTRICT TRANSLATION TABLE, A
[00:05:01]
COMPLETE, UH, LAND USE, UH, MATRIX THAT SETS DOWN, UM, PRINCIPLE USES AND WHERE THEY'RE PERMITTED, UH, AND SO FORTH, ALONG WITH A GREAT DEAL OF CONTENT OF WHAT WE WOULD SUGGEST BE INCLUDED IN THE, UH, THE NEW LUO.NOW, WE'RE STILL WORKING ON THIS AND THE REASON WHY I'M HERE TODAY TO SPEAK WITH YOU IS WE'VE GOT SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT SOME OF THE MATERIAL THAT WE MIGHT LIKE TO INCLUDE IN THIS DOCUMENT, AND WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO, TO HEAR FROM YOU.
SO I'M GONNA STEP THROUGH SOME OF THIS MATERIAL AND POSE THESE QUESTIONS.
UM, BUT THIS ANNOTATED OUTLINE REALLY, UM, IT GUIDES OUR DRAFTING.
UH, IT, WE, WE PUT IT TOGETHER TO GIVE US A ROADMAP FOR THE ORDINANCE THAT, THAT THAT IS TO COME, UH, IN THE COMING WEEKS.
SO THIS ANNOTATED OUTLINE IS BASED ON THE CODE ASSESSMENT DOCUMENT, UH, THAT I OVERVIEWED WITH YOU THE LAST TIME I WAS BEFORE YOU.
UH, REMEMBER, THE CODE ASSESSMENT HAS A SERIES OF EIGHT RECOMMENDATIONS.
THERE ARE ABOUT 99 KEY THEMES FOR IMPROVEMENT SUGGESTIONS THAT WE WOULD MAKE WITH RESPECT TO THE LAND USE ORDINANCE FOR IMPROVEMENT.
THIS ANNOTATED OUTLINE IS THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP.
IT TAKES THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS AND INCORPORATES THEM WITH THE CARRY FORWARD MATERIAL FROM YOUR CURRENT ORDINANCE AND ORGANIZES IT IN THE STRUCTURE AND FORMAT THAT WE THINK IS APPROPRIATE FOR, UH, FOR THE CITY AS WE GO FORWARD.
AND WE HOPE THAT YOU'LL AGREE, UH, WITH SOME OF THE SUGGESTIONS THAT WE MAKE.
UM, SO THIS COMES FROM STAKEHOLDER INPUT, IT COMES FROM INPUT FROM STAFF, IT COMES FROM INPUT FROM YOU, UH, BEST PRACTICES, UH, A THOROUGH REVIEW OF YOUR ADOPTED POLICY GUIDANCE AS IT PERTAINS TO LAND USE, ET CETERA.
SO WE'VE CAST THE NET BROADLY.
WE'RE TRYING TO INCORPORATE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT PIECES OF INPUT, UM, INTO A, A SORT OF CONSOLIDATED AND UNIFORM DOCUMENT THAT GIVES US GUIDANCE GOING FORWARD.
UM, FIRST AND FOREMOST, A MORE USER FRIENDLY REGULATION.
UM, A SET OF DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS THAT ARE EASY TO READ, MORE PREDICTABLE, EASY TO ADMINISTER, ONE THAT RELIES ON ENHANCED GRAPHIC COMMUNICATION.
WE ARE LOOKING AT 300, 400 GRAPHICS TO BE SUPPLEMENTED WITH YOUR TEXT.
UH, SO THAT'LL BE INCLUDED IN HERE.
IMAGES OF WHAT DO WE MEAN WHEN WE SAY HOW DO WE MEASURE HEIGHT OR HOW DO WE MEASURE SIGN AREA, OR WHAT'S THE REAR LOT LINE ON A TRIANGLE SHAPED LOT, ET CETERA.
IMAGES ABOUT HOW THE STANDARDS WORK, MORE EFFICIENT AND PREDICTABLE REVIEW PROCESSES.
THIS HAS BEEN, UH, A MESSAGE THAT WE'VE HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR FROM THE STAKEHOLDERS AND THE STAFF IS THAT WHILE THE CURRENT LUO IS A GOOD DOCUMENT, IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO ADMINISTER AND HARDER TO FOLLOW THAN IT SHOULD BE.
AND WE SHOULD FIND WAYS TO MAKE THE REVIEW PROCESS MORE EFFICIENT, MORE CLEAR.
WE ARE EXPLORING THE ADDITION OF INCENTIVES AND FLEXIBILITY, INCENTIVES FOR PREFERRED KINDS OF DEVELOPMENT, BE THAT SUSTAINABLE FORMATS OF DEVELOPMENT, ATTAINABLE HOUSING, HIGHER QUALITY DEVELOPMENT, ET CETERA.
SO INCENTIVES FOR THAT AND FLEXIBILITY, UM, IT'S NECESSARY TO INCORPORATE FLEXIBILITY AND DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS.
MOST OF THE EASY SITES HERE IN NEW BERN HAVE BEEN BUILT ALREADY.
WHAT'S LEFT ARE THE SITES THAT ARE MORE DIFFICULT TO DEVELOP, AND SOMETIMES IT'S NECESSARY TO HAVE SOME, SOME FLEXIBILITY TO, TO BE ABLE TO ENCOURAGE AND PROMOTE GROWTH ON THOSE ALREADY.
UH, DIFFICULT TO WORK ON SITES, RAISING THE BAR FOR DEVELOPMENT QUALITY.
UH, THAT'S ANOTHER PROJECT GOAL FOR THIS EFFORT.
UM, LOOKING AT WAYS TO IMPROVE LANDSCAPING, SIGNAGE, PERHAPS EVEN ARCHITECTURE.
WE ARE GONNA ASK SOME QUESTIONS OF YOU GUYS TODAY ABOUT BUILDING ARCHITECTURE AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK WE SHOULD BE EXPLORING AS PART OF THIS EFFORT.
UM, MORE SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT OPTIONS, LIVING WITH WATER IN BETTER WAYS.
UH, STORM WATER EROSION, SEDIMENTATION, THOSE ASPECTS, DEALING WITH THAT IN A MORE EFFECTIVE WAY.
ENERGY CONSERVATION, UM, ET CETERA.
PROMOTING MORE SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT.
LOOKING AT PROVIDING MORE HOUSING OPTIONS, NOT NECESSARILY, UM, LESS EXPENSIVE HOUSING, BUT RATHER DIFFERENT KINDS OF HOUSING POCKET NEIGHBORHOODS, BUNGALOW COURTS, LIVE WORK UNITS.
MORE OPTIONS FOR FOLKS TO LIVE IN TO OFFER UP AS SOURCES OF REVENUE.
UM, OPPORTUNITIES FOR, UH, FOLKS TO HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS RETURN HOME, UH, OR STAY WITH THEM, AGE IN PLACE, ET CETERA.
SO JUST MORE FLEXIBILITY FOR HOUSING GENERALLY.
AND THEN FINALLY, MODERNIZING THE USES IN THE ZONING MAP.
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AND THAT'S ONE AREA WHERE WE ARE MAKING SOME FAIRLY DRAMATIC ADJUSTMENTS.WE ARE REPACKAGING HOW YOU APPLY THEM.
AND I'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE.
TODAY, RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE 19 OR SO BASED ZONING DISTRICTS AND NUMEROUS, NUMEROUS OVERLAY ZONING DISTRICTS.
AND HOW THE PROCESS WORKS IS THE BASE ZONING DISTRICT CONTROLS THE RANGE OF USES THAT ARE ALLOWABLE AND SETS DOWN THE DIMENSIONAL STANDARDS.
OKAY, THAT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
BUT HERE IN NEW BERN, YOU ALSO HAVE OVERLAY ZONING DISTRICTS LIKE THE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, LIKE THE FLOOD REGULATIONS, YOUR REDEVELOPMENT DISTRICT, NUMEROUS CORRIDORS, NUMEROUS NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION OVERLAYS.
AND THESE OVERLAYS CONSPIRE TO BECOME COMPLICATED, PARTICULARLY IN CASES WHERE THEY OVERLAP ONE ANOTHER.
YOU HAVE PARTS OF NEWBURN THAT MIGHT BE SUBJECT TO 3, 4, 5 DIFFERENT OVERLAYS IN ADDITION TO THE BASE ZONING DISTRICT STANDARDS.
THAT MAKES IT VERY, VERY DIFFICULT FOR LANDOWNERS AND APPLICANTS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE RULES ARE.
IT ALSO, BY THE WAY, MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR STAFF TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE YOU'D HAVE TO SIFT THROUGH 4, 5, 6 DIFFERENT PACKAGES OF, OF OVERLAY ZONING DISTRICT STANDARDS.
WE ARE NOT GETTING RID OF YOUR STANDARDS.
WE ARE TRYING TO TAKE YOUR STANDARDS, INTEGRATE THEM, AND MAKE THE WHOLE PROCESS EASIER TO FOLLOW.
AND I'M GONNA TALK MORE ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE.
BUT THESE ARE OUR EIGHT PROJECT GOALS.
WE ARE FOCUSING HEAVILY ON EFFICIENCY, CLARITY, PREDICTABILITY, UM, NOT NECESSARILY TAKING AWAY VERY MANY STANDARDS.
WE MAY BE SUGGESTING ADDING SOME STANDARDS WITH GUIDANCE FROM YOU GUYS AND YOUR STAFF.
SO THAT'S KIND OF THE GENERAL ASPECTS PORTION OF THE ANNOTATED OUTLINE.
IT GIVES US THE ROADMAP FOR WHERE WE GO FROM HERE BASED ON THE PROJECT GOALS THAT I JUST EXPLAINED.
SO I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT PROCEDURAL CHANGES FIRST.
OKAY? SO PROCEDURES ARE A PORTION OF YOUR ZONING ORDINANCE THAT SET DOWN HOW THE CITY'S GONNA PROCESS AND REVIEW DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS.
ALRIGHT? AND SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THIS ANNOTATED OUTLINE IS BRING ALL OF THESE PROCEDURES THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN DISPARATE PARTS OF YOUR ORDINANCE.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE FILTERED THROUGHOUT THE NUMEROUS CHAPTERS IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE.
WE BROUGHT THEM INTO ONE PLACE.
CHAPTER TWO, WE'RE USING A UNIFORM PROCEDURAL STRUCTURE.
IN OTHER WORDS, WE HAVE THE SAME SUBSECTIONS FOR EACH TYPE OF REVIEW, PROCEDURE, PURPOSE AND INTENT, APPLICABILITY EXEMPTIONS.
WHAT'S THE PROCESS? THE REVIEW CRITERIA.
HOW DO I AMEND IT? DOES IT EXPIRE? WHAT ABOUT VESTING? THOSE SUBSECTIONS ARE UNIFORM THROUGH EACH PROCEDURE.
OKAY? SO THE APPLICANTS CAN UNDERSTAND THE RULES OF THE GAME BEFORE THEY SUBMIT THE APPLICATION.
WE'VE INCORPORATED NEW PURPOSE AND INTENT STATEMENTS, EACH INDIVIDUAL PROCEDURE, AND THERE'S ABOUT 30, 34 OR 35 OF THEM IN THE DOCUMENT.
EACH ONE INCLUDES PURPOSE AND INTENT PROVISIONS.
WHY DO WE HAVE THIS PROCEDURE? WHAT'S IT INTENDED TO DO? WE INCORPORATE A PROCEDURAL FLOW CHART IN EACH PROCESS THAT TAKES THE APPLICANT THROUGH STEP BY STEP THE VARIOUS PORTIONS OF THE PROCESS.
AGAIN, IN PURSUIT OF HELPING THEM UNDERSTAND WHAT'S WHAT'S REQUIRED.
UM, THERE ARE NOW REVIEW CRITERIA FOR EACH PROCEDURE.
EVERY DECISION THAT'S MADE UNDER YOUR LUO SHOULD SET DOWN REVIEW CRITERIA.
HERE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE BASE OUR DECISIONS ON WHEREVER POSSIBLE.
THOSE REVIEW CRITERIA NEED TO BE MEASURABLE, QUANTIFIABLE, AND WE'VE ATTEMPTED TO DO THAT.
FINALLY, I'LL MENTION A NEW PROCEDURES MANUAL.
IN ADDITION TO THE CHANGES THAT WE'VE MADE TO THE PROCEDURES THEMSELVES.
WE'VE ADDED SOME NEW ONES, WE'VE ADDED SOME CLARITY TO YOUR EXISTING ONES.
WE'RE ALSO ADDING A PROCEDURES MANUAL.
WHAT'S THAT? THAT IS EACH OF THE INDIVIDUAL APPLICATION FORMS FOR EACH PROCEDURE.
WHAT ARE THE SUBMITTAL REQUIREMENTS? WHAT HAS TO BE SUBMITTED? MORE DETAIL ABOUT WHEN THAT'S REQUIRED.
UH, REFERENCES TO OTHER SUPPORTING INFORMATION LIKE THE CITY'S FEE SCHEDULE, THE APPLICATION REVIEW CYCLE PROCESS RESOURCE CONTACT INFORMATION FOR APPLICANTS, ET CETERA.
AGAIN, ALL AIMED AT MAKING THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW PROCESS EASIER AND MORE PREDICTABLE.
NOW, THE PROCEDURES MANUAL IS A SEPARATE DOCUMENT.
IT'S NOT INCLUDED WITHIN THE LUO AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'LL PREPARE AFTER WE'VE STARTED THE ADOPTION PROCESS WITH YOU.
BUT I WANTED TO BE SURE THAT YOU KNEW THAT WE'RE PREPARING THIS USER'S GUIDE TO GO ALONG WITH THE DOCUMENT TO HELP APPLICANTS WHEN THE TIME COMES.
OKAY? NOW, OUR GUIDING PRINCIPLES I MENTIONED EARLIER
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FOR THIS ARE KIND OF THREEFOLD FOURFOLD.FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE WANNA REMOVE GUESSWORK.
WE WANT TO REMOVE THE GUESSWORK FROM SUBMITTING AN APPLICATION WHEREVER POSSIBLE.
WE WANT TO RELY ON RULES THAT ARE WRITTEN DOWN.
WE DON'T WANT TO RELY NECESSARILY ON DISCRETION.
UH, INSTEAD WE WANT TO TAKE THE TIME TO PREPARE COMPREHENSIVE RULES AND LAY THEM DOWN IN THE, IN THE DOCUMENT.
AND THEN USE THOSE AS THE RELIANCE FOR HOW WE MAKE DECISIONS WHERE POSSIBLE.
WE WANT TO DELEGATE DECISION MAKING AUTHORITY TO YOUR PROFESSIONAL STAFF, OKAY? THEY ARE THE PROFESSIONALS.
YOU PAY THEM TO ADMINISTER THE ORDINANCE, AND WE WANT TO DELEGATE THE DECISION MAKING AUTHORITY TO THEM WHERE THAT'S LAWFUL AND WHERE IT'S APPROPRIATE.
FINALLY, WE WANT TO CLARIFY THE APPLICABILITY, WHICH STANDARDS APPLY TO WHICH KINDS OF APPLICATIONS UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU ARE DOING A, UH, AN ADDITION OR AN EXPANSION TO AN EXISTING DEVELOPMENT, THE RANGE OF REVIEW PROCEDURES ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT THAN IF YOU WERE DOING A BRAND NEW SUBDIVISION OR A BRAND NEW SITE PLAN.
SO THESE PROCEDURES HELP SPECIFY FOR APPLICANTS WHAT APPLIES TO ME, WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO AS PART OF THE PROCESS, WHETHER THAT'S BUILDING A DECK OR PUTTING IN A SIGN, OR BUILDING A 5,000 UNIT SUBDIVISION.
WE TRY TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT HOW THAT PROCESS WORKS IN THIS PROCEDURES CHAPTER.
OKAY? I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE PROCEDURES THAT WE'VE INCORPORATED HERE.
THE ONES THAT I'D LIKE TO COVER WITH YOU ARE ALL NEW.
AND WE WOULD SUGGEST THAT THEY BE ADDED, AND I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT THEM, UH, IN SEQUENCE.
FIRST, THE ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT.
THE ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT IS A SAFETY VALVE PROVISION.
AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT ALLOWS THE STAFF TO APPLY DISCRETION IN A, IN A LIMITED CAPACITY TO NUMERICAL STANDARDS THAT ARE IN THE ORDINANCE.
NUMERICAL STANDARDS LIKE SETBACKS, LOT WIDTH, SIGN HEIGHT, TREE SIZE, NUMERICAL STANDARDS, OKAY? THIS, THIS ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT ALLOWS THE STAFF TO PERMIT APPLICANTS TO DEVIATE FROM MINIMUM THRESHOLD NUMBER REQUIREMENTS BY UP TO 10% IN LIMITED CASES WHERE SUCH THINGS ARE NECESSARY BASED ON CLEAR REVIEW CRITERIA.
SO LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF WHEN YOU MIGHT USE AN ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT.
LET'S SAY FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT THAT SOMEBODY'S BUILDING A COMMERCIAL BUILDING, THERE'S AN EXISTING TREE THEY'D LIKE TO SAVE.
WE DON'T HAVE A REQUIREMENT FOR YOU TO SAVE THE TREE, BUT THEY'D LIKE TO SAVE IT.
THEY DON'T WANT TO PUT THE BUILDING ON TOP OF THE TREE ROOTS, OKAY? TO, IN ORDER TO AVOID THE TREE ROOTS, THEY NEED TO MOVE THE BUILDING AWAY FROM THE TREE.
IN SO DOING, THEY MIGHT APPROACH A SIDE OR A REAR LOT LINE, AND THERE ARE SETBACKS THAT APPLY TO THOSE SIDE OR REAR LOT LINES, RIGHT? LET'S JUST SAY FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT THAT IN THIS DISTRICT IT'S 10 FEET.
OKAY? NOW, THE 10% ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT RULE WOULD ALLOW STAFF TO REDUCE THAT 10 FOOT SETBACK BY UP TO 10% OR ONE FOOT DOWNWARDS IN ORDER FOR THAT BUILDING TO BE MOVED AWAY FROM THE CRITICAL ROOT ZONE, UH, ASSOCIATED WITH THE TREE.
SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF A SAFETY VALVE PROVISION.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE I CAN GIVE YOU IS, LET'S SAY FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT THAT SOMEBODY SUBMITS A PLOT PLAN OR WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO, TO BUILD A DEVELOPMENT.
CONTRACTORS GO OUT IN THE FIELD AND THEY, THEY DISLOCATE THE BUILDING BY SIX INCHES.
UH, IT'S IN THE, IT'S NOT QUITE WHERE IT SAYS IT'S GONNA BE IN THE SITE PLAN, BUT IT'S NOT A DRASTIC DIFFERENCE.
IT'S, IT'S A VERY SMALL NUMBER.
THE ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT IS A PROCESS WHERE THE CITY CAN, CAN HANDLE THAT DIFFERENCE, ADDRESS THAT DEVIATION WITHOUT REQUIRING THAT APPLICANT TO GO THROUGH THE, THE BUREAUCRATIC NIGHTMARE OF HAVING TO GET A VARIANCE FOR WHAT IS LARGELY INEFFECTUAL, UH, DISTINCTION OR DIFFERENCE FROM THE STANDARD.
OKAY? SAFETY VALVE, THAT'S WHAT THE ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT IS.
FOUR VERY USEFUL IN MATURE COMMUNITIES WHERE MOST OF THE LOTS ARE ALREADY BUILT.
WHAT'S LEFT ARE THE DIFFICULT SITES THAT ARE DIFFICULT FOR A REASON, WHETHER IT'S TOPO OR UNDERGROUND CONDITIONS OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
THESE KINDS OF ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENTS ALLOW FACILITATE DEVELOPMENT ON THOSE MORE DIFFICULT LOTS.
OKAY? I WANNA TALK ABOUT CONDITIONAL REZONING 'CAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW.
TODAY, NEW BERN USES A PLAN DEVELOPMENT PROCEDURE FOR LARGE DEVELOPMENTS, OKAY? AND, AND, AND THAT'S GREAT AND IT WORKS WELL.
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CONSIDER THE CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCESS.SO YOUR PLANNED DEVELOPMENT PROCEDURE ALLOWS APPLICANTS TO COME IN AND REQUEST DEVIATIONS FROM MINIMUM STANDARDS, OKAY? AND THE ONLY SORT OF TEST FOR THEM TO PASS IN TERMS OF MAKING THIS REQUEST IS WHETHER OR NOT THEY WRITE THE WORD PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT ON THE SITE PLAN.
THERE'S NO SPECIAL REVIEW FOR THIS.
THERE'S NO, UM, UH, SORT OF AUTHORITATIVE DECISION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN PROPOSE A PLAN DEVELOPMENT OR, UH, WHAT KIND OF DEVIATION IS BEING SUGGESTED.
THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL REVIEW FROM A LEGISLATIVE BODY.
NOW, BEST PRACTICE TELLS US THAT CONDITIONAL REZONING CREATES THIS FORMAT SETTING WHERE THE ELECTED OFFICIALS AND THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THESE REQUESTS WHERE DEVIATIONS FROM THE STANDARDS ARE SOUGHT.
OKAY? IT PROTECTS THE PUBLIC INTEREST.
THE PUBLIC IS AWARE OF THE APPLICATION.
THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO REGISTER THEIR CONCERNS WITH THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD AND WITH THIS BODY, YOU GUYS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE PROPOSAL, THE SITE PLANS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE CONCEPT PLANS, WHATEVER HAPPENS TO BE SUBMITTED WITH THEM.
AND YOU GUYS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO NEGOTIATE THE DEVELOPMENT, OKAY? YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO APPLY CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, AND THE APPLICANT CAN NEGOTIATE AND DISCUSS WITH YOU CHANGES THAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE, UH, FROM THE STANDARDS.
UM, YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DESIGN AND LAYOUT OF THE DEVELOPMENT IN MORE ROBUST WAYS THAN WHAT YOU'RE SEEING TODAY.
OKAY? WE WOULD SUGGEST A TWO-PRONGED OR A TWO TIER CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCESS.
ONE FOR WHAT? SO-CALLED LIMITED APPLICATIONS.
THESE ARE FOLKS WHO WANT TO PROPOSE A DEVELOPMENT, BUT INSTEAD OF HAVING THE FULL LITANY OF ALLOWABLE USE TYPES THAT MIGHT BE PERMITTED UNDER THAT ZONING DISTRICT, THEY'D ONLY LIKE TO HAVE ONE OR MAYBE TWO.
THEY'RE LIMITING VOLUNTARILY THEIR APPLICATION, OKAY? THIS LIMITED CONDITIONAL ZONING PROCESS ALLOWS THEM TO COME IN AND PROPOSE THAT CONDITION.
YOU CANNOT LIMIT OR CONDITION CONVENTIONAL REZONING.
IF I'M COMING IN AND I WANT TO ESTABLISH A ZONING DISTRICT, YOU GUYS HAVE TO CONSIDER THE FULL LITANY OF USES THAT ARE ALLOWABLE IN THAT DISTRICT, OKAY? THAT'S WHAT THE LAW SAYS.
THE CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCESS ALLOWS THE APPLICANT TO SUGGEST AND FOR YOU TO CONSIDER LIMITING THE RANGE OF USES TO ONE OR TWO OR THREE LESS THAN WHAT'S OTHERWISE ALLOWED IN THE CONVENTIONAL CORRESPONDING DISTRICT.
WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT? BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORS DON'T WANT TO SEE THE FULL RANGE OF ALLOWABLE USE TYPES.
MAYBE THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE ONE THAT'S BEING PROPOSED, OR MAYBE THEY'RE COMFORTABLE IF THERE'S A LIMITATION PLACED ON THE KINDS OF USES THAT ARE ALLOWED ON THAT SITE.
THAT'S THE VALUE OF THE LIMITED CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCESS.
NOW, I MENTIONED PLAN DEVELOPMENTS IN MINUTE AGO.
PLAN DEVELOPMENTS ARE USUALLY LARGE MASTERPLAN COMPLEX.
THEY OFTEN COME WITH DEVIATIONS.
I'D LIKE TO HAVE MY OWN DENSITY.
I'D LIKE TO HAVE MY OWN SETBACKS.
I'D LIKE TO DEVIATE FROM SOME OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE INSIDE THE LUO, RIGHT? THAT'S PART AND PARCEL OF A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.
NOW, WE WOULD SUGGEST USE OF THE CONDITION, THE UNLIMITED CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCESS, LIKE WHAT I MENTIONED BEFORE.
THIS APPLICANT PREPARES A CONCEPT PLAN, THEY COME TO PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, THEY DISCUSS THE APPLICATION.
THERE'S GIVE AND TAKE, THERE'S NEGOTIATION.
THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE CONCEPT PLAN BEFORE IT'S BUILT.
UM, THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MAKES RECOMMENDATIONS.
THE APPLICANT HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONSIDER THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COMES BEFORE THIS BODY.
AND YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO NEGOTIATE AND, AND SUGGEST CONDITIONS FOR THE APPLICANT TO CONSIDER.
THIS DISCUSSION HAPPENS IN THE SUNSHINE AND EVERYBODY GETS A GREATER OPPORTUNITY TO BE INVOLVED AND TO HAVE SOME IMPACT ON THE APPLICATION.
THIS IS IN, IN VERY WIDE USE THROUGHOUT NORTH CAROLINA.
UM, IN FACT, ZONING ZONING CODES THAT DON'T INCLUDE A CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCEDURE ARE, ARE NOW, UH, THE, THE, THE RARITY.
SO EVERYBODY IS, IS USING THIS PROCEDURAL APPROACH.
ONE MORE THING I'LL MENTION BEFORE I LEAVE THE, THE, THIS KIND OF CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCESS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WE CALL THIS UNLIMITED THE TYPE TWO, IT'S UNLIMITED.
THAT MEANS THAT I CAN COME AND REQUEST DEVIATIONS.
[00:25:01]
I CAN CONDITION MY APPLICATION WITH MORE RESTRICTIVE PIECES, OR I CAN REQUEST RELIEF.I CAN REQUEST WAIVER, I CAN REQUEST DEVIATION FROM THE STANDARDS.
WHAT THIS CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCESS ASKS FOR IN THOSE INSTANCES IS FOR THE APPLICANT TO PROVE TO PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD AND TO YOU THAT THE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S PROPOSED IS BETTER THAN THE ONE THAT WOULD RESULT FROM THE STRICT APPLICATION OF THE STANDARDS.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO REQUEST A DEVIATION OR A REDUCTION OR A WAIVER FROM STANDARDS, IT BECOMES NECESSARY FOR YOU, THE APPLICANT TO PROVE TO THE CITY WHY THAT'S NECESSARY AND HOW THE DEVELOPMENT IS GONNA BE BETTER THAN IF NO NO DEVIATION OR WAIVER WAS GRANTED.
AND WE'LL PROVIDE INFORMATION IN THE LUO THAT WE LIKE TO CALL ENHANCEMENTS.
THEY ARE VOLUNTARY GUIDANCE FOR APPLICANTS TO CONSIDER WHEN THEY COME TO YOU WITH ONE OF THESE REQUESTS.
YOU WANT TO HAVE A DEVIATION, HERE'S SOME THINGS YOU MIGHT WISH TO INCORPORATE IN YOUR APPLICATION TYPE.
MAYBE YOU WANT EXTRA LANDSCAPING.
MAYBE YOU WANT TO HAVE, UH, SOME DEDICATION OF SOME PARKLAND.
MAYBE YOU WANT TO HAVE, UH, EV CHARGING STATIONS.
MAYBE YOU WANT TO HAVE BETTER SIGNS.
THE LUO WILL PROVIDE SOME VOLUNTARY GUIDANCE TO APPLICANTS ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THEIR APPLICATIONS FOR UNLIMITED CONDITIONAL ZONINGS BETTER, OKAY? MORE IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE SUGGESTIONS FOR THE PROCEDURE.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THIS IS A MUCH MORE NUANCED, MUCH MORE POWERFUL WAY FOR YOU GUYS TO ADDRESS THESE COMPLEX PLAN UNIT DEVELOPMENT STYLE, UH, THINGS THAT ARE COMING FORWARD.
NOW, I'VE, I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH, WITH TIM JACKSON ABOUT THIS.
UM, TH THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S OFF FROM LEFT FIELD.
THIS IS MAINSTREAM PLANNING IN 2024.
SO WE ARE VERY MUCH IN LINE WITH WHAT LARGE DEVELOPERS, UH, WHAT WAREHOUSER IS DOING IN OTHER PLACES.
THIS IS VERY MUCH, UH, THE STATUS QUO.
OKAY? LET ME TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CONSERVATION SUBDIVISION.
A CONSERVATION SUBDIVISION IS ONE THAT ALLOWS SMALLER LOTS AND SMALLER SETBACKS.
AND IN TRADE FOR THOSE SMALLER LOTS AND SMALLER SETBACKS, AS PART OF YOUR SUBDIVISION, YOU SET ASIDE 50% OF THE LAND AREA AS OPEN SPACE FOREVER.
OKAY? AND THAT OPEN SPACE COULD BE AGRICULTURAL LAND FOR LAND, IT COULD JUST BE OPEN SPACE.
OKAY? NOW I'M SETTING ASIDE HALF OF THE DEVELOPMENT AS OPEN SPACE FOREVER.
IT'S DEED RESTRICTED, IT'S LIMITED.
IT'S NEVER GONNA BE ANYTHING BUT OPEN SPACE IN RETURN FOR THAT.
I GET SMALLER LOT SIZES, OKAY? SO MY UTILITY EXTENSION COSTS ARE LOWER.
MY STREET EXTENSION COSTS ARE LOWER.
SO THERE'S A REASON FOR ME TO DO THAT.
NOW, ONE LAST THING THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS CONSERVATION SUBDIVISION PROCEDURE IS THE STANDARD THAT WE APPLY THAT SAYS YOU CAN DO THIS.
YOU CAN USE THESE SMALLER LOTS, THESE SMALLER SETBACKS, BUT DO NOT WANT TO SEE THE HOMES FROM OFFSITE STREETS.
DO NOT WANT TO SEE THE HOMES FROM ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOODS.
OKAY? SO THOSE THINGS ARE THERE, BUT THEY CANNOT BE SEEN FROM THE PUBLIC REALM.
THEY CANNOT BE SEEN FROM ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOODS.
THIS STRATEGY IS CONSERVATION.
SUBDIVISION STRATEGY IS VERY EFFECTIVE AT ATTAINABLE HOUSING MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOUR BASIC TRADITIONAL DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AS WELL, JUST ON SMALLER LOTS.
UM, SO THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIONS AND VARIETY FOR HOW THIS CONSERVATION SUBDIVISION COULD BE USED.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT, BUT IT'S A CHOICE THAT WE MAKE AVAILABLE OR SUGGEST MAKING AVAILABLE FOR APPLICANTS, UH, WHO ARE SEEKING TO DO SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLINGS.
UM, SO THAT'S A NEW PROCEDURE THAT WE WOULD SUGGEST YOU GUYS CONSIDER INCORPORATING A WORD OR TWO ABOUT CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS WHEN YOU DO A SITE PLAN.
PAUSE JUST ON THE BASIS OF, OKAY, QUESTIONS ON COURT OBSERVATION SUBDIVISIONS, BECAUSE IT'S REALLY NEW CONCEPT QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE THINGS.
IF I'M GOING TOO FAST, JUST TELL ME I'M HAPPY TO SLOW DOWN OR GO INTO MORE DETAIL.
WHAT IS THE AVERAGE SIZE LOT? YOU SAID WITH THE CONSERVATION IT WOULD BE SMALLER LOTS, BUT JUST BASED ON LAND USE.
NOW, WHAT IS THE AVERAGE SIZE OF A LOT? UM, I'D SAY THAT'S PROBABLY THE SIX TO, MAYBE SIX TO 10,000 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE RANGE FOR NEW BERN, I WOULD SAY IS PROBABLY THE AVERAGE SIZE.
I THINK A CONSERVATION SUBDIVISION MIGHT TYPICALLY COME IN AT 5,000 SQUARE
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FEET.4,500, UM, YOU KNOW, IN THAT RANGE.
SO WHEN YOU SAY THAT, YOU SAID SQUARE FEET, SO ARE YOU TALKING LIKE FOUR, YOU SAID 44 SQUARE FEET? MM-HMM, FOUR, 4,530 SQUARE FEET.
SO WHAT IS THAT EQUIVALENT TO A ACRE, HALF ACRE, QUARTER OF AN ACRE? RIGHT.
SO AN ACRE IS 43,560 SQUARE FEET.
SO THAT'S ABOUT, UH, 10% OF AN ACRE.
SOUNDS LIKE A SMALL LOT AND IT IS A SMALL LOT.
BUT REMEMBER, UM, YOU KNOW, HALF OF THE DEVELOPMENT IS SET ASIDE AS OPEN SPACE THAT THERE'S NEVER GONNA BE STREETS OR BUILDINGS ON THAT.
UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, THIS PROCESS IS ONE THAT'S USED IN, IN NUMEROUS COMMUNITIES, UH, ACROSS THE STATE.
UM, WE DO SUGGEST IT BE USED IN AREAS THAT HAVE SEWER SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WELL AND SEPTIC.
UH, BUT THIS IS AN EFFECTIVE WAY OF GETTING OPEN SPACE PROTECTED AND ACCOMMODATING CERTAIN KINDS OF HOUSING THAT MAYBE DON'T NEED LARGE LOTS.
DO YOU GUYS WANT TO STOP? YOU WANNA KEEP GOING? I, I JUST TO HIGHLIGHT, WE, I THOUGHT THIS WAS GONNA BE KIND OF A, WE, WE COULD BOUNCE OFF OF EACH OTHER.
SO IF YOU GUYS DON'T MIND, I REALLY WANNA CALL ATTENTION THAT IMPLEMENTING A CONDITIONAL ZONING, THE TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF CONDITIONAL ZONING HE JUST WALKED THROUGH IS GOING TO THE WAY IT IS PROPOSED RIGHT NOW WITH SOME NODS REPLACE THE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
THE CITY OF NEWBURN HAS BEEN USING FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.
CONDITIONAL ZONING IS FAR MORE COMMON.
IT HAS THE BENEFITS HE JUST WALKED THROUGH OF THE, THE PROJECT COMES TO STAFF, IT GOES THROUGH THE STAFF REVIEW, IT GOES THROUGH THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD TO PROPOSE CONDITIONS AND THINGS THAT WILL COME TO YOU.
SO WE WILL LEGALLY BE ABLE TO LOOK AT VERY SPECIFIC PROCESSES IN THESE TYPES OF REZONING REQUESTS.
HOWEVER, THE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT PROCESS THAT HAS BEEN USED FOR A LONG TIME WILL NO LONGER EXIST.
SO WE'RE TRADING THESE OFF, AND I WANT THIS TO BE MADE VERY CLEAR BECAUSE WE, AS WE BUILD ON THIS CHANGE, UM, WE'RE GOING TO BE BUILDING AROUND THIS PROCESS RATHER THAN THE OLD ONE.
SO AT SOME POINT TODAY, IF I HOP UP AND ASK, DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THIS TYPE OF CHANGE? OR IF YOU WANT CHAD TO SPEAK TO ANY POTENTIAL DOWNSIDES HE'S EXPERIENCED, 'CAUSE HE'S WRITTEN A LOT MORE OF THESE CODES THAN I HAVE NOW IS THE TIME FOR US TO SPEAK UP.
'CAUSE WE'RE TAKING THE INPUT WE GET TODAY AND REALLY BUILDING ON IT.
SO DON'T BE SHY IF YOU'VE GOT QUESTIONS, PLEASE.
QUESTION WITH CONDITIONAL REZONING, DOES IT HAVE ANY RELATIONSHIP WITH COVENANTS OF THAT DOES NOT INTERLOCK? GREAT QUESTION.
UH, THE CITY DOES NOT ENFORCE COVENANTS NOW.
YOU SHOULD NOT ENFORCE COVENANTS IN THE FUTURE.
UM, IF, UH, A DEVELOPER WISHES TO APPLY CCRS TO THEIR PROPERTY, THEN THEY, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO THAT.
UM, I DO ENCOURAGE OR WE WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE NEW LUO INCLUDE PROVISIONS FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION.
THAT WOULD INCLUDE REVIEW OF COVENANTS IF THAT'S PROPOSED AS PART OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION.
BUT THE CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCEDURE ITSELF HAS NO IMPACT OR BEARING ON, ON COVENANTS.
WOULD IT BE SAFE TO SAY THAT AS MS ROUGE HAS POINTED OUT, KIND OF A SHIFT AWAY FROM THE WAY THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE TO A NEW MODEL, IF YOU WILL, A NEW FORMAT THAT WOULD PROVIDE, UM, A GREATER OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO A DEVELOPER, NEGOTIATE WITH A DEVELOPER TO TRY TO COME UP WITH A PLAN THAT IS MAYBE, UH, BETTER SUITED, IF YOU WILL, FOR THE COMMUNITY? UM, HAVE YOU TALKED TO THE, THE, THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD ABOUT THIS CONCEPT YET? BECAUSE ONE COMPLAINT THAT I'VE HEARD FROM MEMBERS OF, OF THE BOARD IS THAT ALL TOO OFTEN THEY, THEY FEEL THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY DIG INTO, TO DIG IN A PLAN THAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO THEM.
UM, AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY.
SO I'M JUST CURIOUS IF SOME OF THIS, OR ALL OF IT MIGHT BE COMING BY WAY OF
[00:35:01]
THE PLANNING AND ZONING OR PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD DESIRE TO HAVE MORE OF AN IMPACT OF BEING ABLE TO DISCUSS A PLAN IN MORE DETAIL WITH, UH, A DEVELOPER AND MAYBE NEGOTIATE SOME TRADE OFFS.SO THE IDEA BEHIND THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT IS JUST THAT TO, YOU KNOW, TO, OR I'M SORRY, THE CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCESS IS TO CREATE THIS FORUM FOR GIVE AND TAKE.
THE PLANNING AND ZONING CHAIR, BOARD CHAIR IS ON OUR STEERING COMMITTEE AND IS AWARE OF THIS.
AND I BELIEVE THERE'S AT LEAST ONE OTHER MEMBER WHO IS ALSO ON THE STEERING COMMITTEE AND, AND KNOWS ABOUT THIS.
AND IT'S MY HOPE THAT, AND OUR REQUEST THAT ALL STEERING COMMITTEE MEMBERS DISSEMINATE INFORMATION DOWN TO THEIR VARIOUS CONSTITUENCIES, INCLUDING THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.
BUT YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A FAIR ASSESSMENT TO SAY THAT THIS APPROACH CREATES MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR WHAT THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD HAS BEEN ASKING FOR, THE ANSWER IS YES.
THIS CREATES A SITUATION WHERE THE APPLICANT HAS TO COME BEFORE THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD AS PART OF A REZONING CASE WITH THEIR CONCEPT PLAN TO SHARE THE PROPOSAL, HAVE DISCUSSION, NEGOTIATE AND WORK THROUGH CONDITIONS WITH PLANNING AND ZONING, AND WITH YOU BOTH FURTHER, THERE'S A MANDATORY NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING SO THAT RESIDENTS ARE AWARE OF IT BEFORE IT'S SUBMITTED MANDATORY PRE-APPLICATION CONFERENCE SO THAT STAFF IS AWARE BEFORE THE APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED.
UM, THIS IS ALL ABOUT COMMUNICATION AND ITERATIVE CHANGE IN PURSUIT OF IMPROVEMENT.
WHAT, UH, WHAT DEVELOPERS ARE ON THE STEERING COMMITTEE? I'M GONNA ASK STAFF TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT THE, I I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S ANY DEVELOPERS PER SE ON THE STEERING COMMITTEE.
WE INTERVIEWED A SERIES OF STAKEHOLDERS IN THE EARLY PART OF THE PROCESS.
I MENTIONED AT THE HEAD OF MY TALK THAT WE ARE ANTICIPATING A SERIES OF, OF WHAT I'LL CALL ROUND TABLE DISCUSSIONS.
THEY'RE FOCUS GROUPS OF VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS, UH, INCLUDING THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY.
WE ALSO DID SPEND TIME WITH A, UH, WE, WE HAD SUCH A MEETING WITH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, UM, NOT THE LAST TRIP, BUT THE TRIP BEFORE.
SO WE'VE TRIED TO REACH OUT AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE AWARE OF THIS, UH, AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO ENGAGE THEM.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE REALIZED OVER THE ARC OF MY TIME DOING THIS WORK IS THAT IT'S BETTER FOR US TO HAVE AT LEAST SOMETHING ON PAPER FOR THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY TO RESPOND TO RATHER THAN THE I THAN SOME, SOME BASIC IDEAS.
WILL THEY BE AWARE OF THE CONDITIONAL REZONING PROCESS? ANSWER YES.
UM, THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT PLAN UNIT DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IN USE IN, IN NEW BERN IS NOT THE NORM.
IT IS, UH, SOMETHING THAT IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S NORMALLY APPLIED.
SO WE'RE CONFIDENT THAT THEY'RE AWARE OF THAT.
BUT I'LL, I'LL LET, UM, PLEASE THANK YOU.
WE, WE HAVE ENGAGED, UH, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM WEYERHAEUSER AS WELL AS JOHN G. THOMAS, UH, WITH THOMAS ENGINEERING AS PART OF THE PROCESS WHILE WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS.
AND WE INTEND TO HAVE THEM FULLY INVOLVED THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS TO INCLUDE WHEN WE DEVELOP THESE SPECIFIC PROCEDURES AND STANDARDS DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY IS A VERY, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THIS PROCESS.
BECAUSE IF THEY DON'T BUY IN, UM, THEN YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PROBLEM AT ADOPTION.
I'D LIKE JUST ADD ONE MORE THING TO THE WAY THAT WE'RE KIND OF GOING THROUGH THESE LARGE PROJECTS RIGHT NOW.
A PUD IS TACKED ONTO THE SAME PROCESS THAT A SUBDIVISION HAS TO FOLLOW.
AND THIS IS CAUSING US THOSE PROBLEMS THAT ALDERMAN PEARL JUST POINTED OUT, WHERE THINGS ARE BEING MOVED THROUGH THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.
HOWEVER, THEY LOOK AT IT AND WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO IS SAY, YES, WE FEEL THIS MEETS THE ORDINANCE AND THAT'S IT.
THERE'S NO LEVITY OR FLEXIBILITY TO ADD ON.
WELL, THIS MIGHT BE OKAY IF YOU TRIPLE THE BUFFER, OR THIS MIGHT BE OKAY IF THERE WAS ONE LESS UNIT.
NOW THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT THROUGH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT HAS THE RIGHT TO DISCUSS THOSE TYPES OF THINGS WITHIN APPLICANT.
HOWEVER, THE GOVERNING BODY DOES NOT THIS CHANGE FOR THESE TWO TYPES, AND NOT ALL ZONINGS WOULD BE CONDITIONAL REZONINGS A CONDITIONAL REZONING.
I, IF YOU WANNA THINK OF IT IN THE MOST SIMPLE TERMS TO ME, IS LIKE TAKING THE REZONING AND WHATEVER HAPPENS AT BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND KIND OF PUTTING IT TOGETHER AND LETTING YOU APPROVE THE ZONING OF THE PROJECT VERY SPECIFICALLY AND ASKING FOR SOME THINGS OR TELLING THEM WE'RE NOT COMFORTABLE APPROVING IT IF YOU LEAVE THIS IN THERE OR THIS OR THAT.
[00:40:01]
CAN CERTAINLY LEGALLY DISCUSS ALL OF THE USES OR THE, OR LIMIT THE USES AS CHAD ALLUDED TO.AND THAT'S WHERE THE BENEFIT IS.
IT, IT IT'S A MUCH MORE POWERFUL PROCESS THAT RELIES ON YOUR LEGISLATIVE DISCRETION INSTEAD OF THE SORT OF SOMEWHAT LIMITING QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEDURE THAT YOUR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HAS TO FOLLOW.
IT LEVERAGES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR INVOLVEMENT FOR YOU GUYS AND YOUR PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD THAT IS NOT HAPPENING WITH THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT PROCESS TODAY.
AND THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU'RE EXPERIENCING WITH SOME OF THESE PLAN DEVELOPMENT PROCESSES IS, IS BY NATURE THE FACT THAT YOU'RE NOT USING A LEGISLATIVE REZONING PROCESS TO CONSIDER THOSE APPLICATIONS.
AND SOME OF THOSE CHALLENGES AND PROBLEMS THAT PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD IS EXPERIENCING.
SOME OF THE THINGS YOU MAY HAVE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO BE INVOLVED OR AWARE OF THESE KINDS OF PROJECTS RESULTS FROM THE FACT THAT YOU'RE NOT USING THIS LEGISLATIVE PROCESS TO REVIEW THESE KINDS OF DEVELOPMENTS.
AND SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE MAKING THE SUGGESTION.
SO, SO HOW FLEXIBLE WILL THAT PROCESS BE? BECAUSE CURRENTLY WITH THE, THE PUD THE DEVELOPERS, THEY HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF REQUIREMENTS, THINGS THEY HAVE TO DO, THINGS THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO.
AND MY CONCERN IS THIS SEEMS TO BE VERY FLUID AND I'LL JUST SAY IF YOU CATCH THE, UM, PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD ON A BAD NIGHT AND THEY'RE NOT IN A GOOD MOOD NOW, HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO THEY HAVE? HOW MUCH AUTHORITY DO THEY HAVE TO SAY? WELL, UNDER A THE OLD P YOU COULD DO SIDEWALKS ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET.
YOU KNOW, WE REALLY WANNA SEE SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET.
MM-HMM,
AND THE APPLICANT HAS TO AGREE TO FOLLOW THE CONDITIONS.
OKAY? THE APPLICANT CHOOSES NOT TO ADHERE TO OR FOLLOW A PROPOSED CONDITION.
NOW, PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MAY FEEL FREE TO RECOMMEND DENIAL, JUST LIKE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, THIS BODY HAS COMPLETE AUTHORITY TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS, PROPOSE CONDITIONS THE APPLICANT HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO, TO ACCEPT THEM OR NOT.
AND YOU KNOW, IN YOUR LEGISLATIVE DISCRETION, IF YOU BELIEVE A SET OF CONDITIONS IS APPROPRIATE AND THE APPLICANT OPS NOT FOLLOW THEM WELL, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU MAY MAKE YOUR DECISION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THAT, WITH THAT SORT OF APPROACH.
SO THERE WOULD ACTUALLY BE MORE ENGAGEMENT FROM THE GOVERNING BOARD OH YES.
COMPARED TO WHAT WE HAVE TODAY.
VERY MUCH SO ESSENTIALLY IT'S APPROVED BY PLANNING AND ZONING.
YOU DECIDE IT NOT PLANNING AND ZONING, YOU DECIDE IT, YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FROM THEM, BUT IT'S THIS BODY'S DISCRETION TO CHANGE THE ZONING MAP.
I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION, PLEASE.
I HOPE THIS IS NOT BEING REDUNDANT, BUT I WAS THINKING IN TERMS OF HOMEOWNERS, UH, AND WHAT RE NEWBURN PROVIDES FOR THEM.
I RECALL WITH, UH, WARD THREE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT HOMES AND THE LAND, WHATEVER THE ISSUES WERE, I CAN'T REMEMBER THEIR COMMUNITY WARD THREE, THE FAMILIES THAT CAME HERE, IT WAS WATER ISSUES, WASN'T IT? WATER ISSUES, WATER DRAIN ISSUES, YEAH, MOSTLY.
SO DOES RE NEWBURN ADDRESS ALL OF THOSE ISSUES OR THAT IS NOT RELEVANT HERE WE ARE EXPLORING SOME, SO I'LL BACK UP.
SO YOU'VE GOT STORMWATER STANDARDS THAT, THAT YOU, YOU'VE, YOU'VE RECENTLY REDONE YOUR STORMWATER ORDINANCE AND YOU ARE NOT A DELEGATED COMMUNITY.
YOU GUYS CHOOSE TO RELY ON DEQ, THE NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY TO REVIEW AND ISSUE STORMWATER PERMITS FOR DEVELOPMENTS HERE, UH, IN NEW BERN.
NOW THAT IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE.
THAT SAID, WE ARE TALKING WITH, YOU KNOW, YOUR PUBLIC WORKS FOLKS ABOUT POSSIBLE CHANGES THEY MIGHT LIKE TO INCORPORATE, UM, INTO THE STORM WATER PROVISION.
SO LEMME GIVE YOU A COUPLE EXAMPLES.
[00:45:02]
ONE EXAMPLE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS, UH, SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO THE STANDARDS TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPERS TO LOCATE STORM WATER CONTROL MEASURES AT THE FRONTS OF LOTS AND TREAT THEM AS AMENITIES RATHER THAN AS UTILITY FEATURES.OKAY? SO, AND A STORMWATER CONTROL MEASURE THAT'S AN AMENITY DOESN'T, ISN'T REQUIRED TO BE SCREENED, RIGHT? IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE FENCED.
UH, AND THAT'S GOOD FOR THE DEVELOPER.
LOCATING IT IN THE FRONT OF THE YARD INSTEAD OF AT THE BACK OF THE SITE MAKES IT EASIER TO MAINTAIN GOOD FOR THE DEVELOPER, GOOD FOR THE CITY IN CASE YOU MAY EVER HAVE TO ASSIST IN MAINTAINING IT FURTHER.
IF YOU ORGANIZE THE STORMWATER CONTROL MEASURE AS A SITE AMENITY, IF IT'S PLANTED AND LANDSCAPED AND IS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN WALK, THEN YOU GET CREDIT OR YOU MIGHT GET CREDIT TOWARDS OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS.
SO YOU'RE KILLING MULTIPLE BIRDS WITH ONE STONE HERE YOU'RE BRINGING THE STORMWATER MEASURE UP TO THE FRONT OF THE SITE TO MAKE IT EASIER TO MAINTAIN.
YOU'RE CREATING AN, A BUILT-IN A BAKED IN INCENTIVE FOR THAT LANDOWNER TO TAKE BETTER CARE OF THE, OF THE FACILITY ITSELF BECAUSE IT'S VISIBLE.
ALRIGHT? AND THEY'RE GETTING CREDIT TOWARDS SOME OF THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE TO HAVE TO FACE UNDER THE ZONING ORDINANCE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S ONE ASPECT THAT WE'RE, THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REVIEWING AND STUDYING.
I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA GET TOO DOWN IN THE WEEDS HERE, BUT LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT ANOTHER EXAMPLE.
UM, WE UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE SOME NUISANCE FLOODING.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT IN HEAVY RAINS WE ARE SOME PROBLEMS, PARTICULARLY IN INSTANCES WHERE FOLKS BUILDING HOMES MIGHT COME IN AND FILL, THEY MIGHT COME IN AND DEPOSIT TWO OR THREE FEET OF FILL ON THEIR YARD AND THEN BUILD THEIR HOUSE ON TOP OF THAT FILL, OKAY? DONE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.
WHY WE CARE IS BECAUSE WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THE RAINWATER THAT LANDS ON THAT SITE THAT'S BEEN FILLED FLOWS DOWN THE HILL AND POOLS ON THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY AROUND THEM.
AND SO THERE ARE SOME SUGGESTIONS ABOUT ESTABLISHING NEW STANDARDS FOR FOLKS WHO, IF THEY ARE DOING A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND WANT TO BRING IN A BUNCH OF FILL DIRT AS PART OF CONSTRUCTING THAT HOME, THAT THERE BE SOME PROVISIONS IN THE ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRE THEM TO KEEP THE WATER THAT FALLS ON THEIR PROPERTY, ON THEIR PROPERTY INSTEAD OF ALLOWING IT TO WASH DOWNHILL TO THEIR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER ASPECT THAT WE'RE TALKING WITH FOLKS ABOUT.
BY FOLKS, I MEAN CITY STAFF, UH, IS THAT A PROVISION THAT THEY'D LIKE TO INCLUDE, UM, ET CETERA.
SO THERE'S A COUPLE EXAMPLES OF WATER RELATED PROVISIONS THAT RE NEWBURN IS APPROACHING OR THINKING ABOUT DEALING WITH.
NOW, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, IF THOSE STANDARDS GET INCORPORATED, WE'LL BE REVIEWING THOSE WITH THE FOCUS GROUPS.
WE'LL BE REVIEWING THOSE WITH CITY STAFF.
WE'LL BE REVIEWING THOSE WITH THE COMMUNITY.
WE'LL BE REVIEWING THEM WITH
UM, SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT ALL OF THAT STUFF WHEN THE, WHEN, IF AND WHEN THAT MATERIAL DOES GET INTEGRATED, WE DO ANTICIPATE SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO STORM WATER.
WE MIGHT BE MAKING SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO, TO SEDIMENTATION AND EROSION CONTROL AS WELL.
BUT THAT WILL TURN ON YOUR CITY STAFF'S, UH, DISCRETION AND THEIR THOUGHT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S NECESSARY AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S ENFORCEABLE, UM, AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WISH TO TAKE ON.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YES, SIR.
I THINK A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ALMOND ROYAL WAS TALKING ABOUT, WHICH IS IN MY WARD, THE, UM, THE WATER STAYS ON THEIR PROPERTY FOREVER,
SO I HAD CONVERSATION WITH, UH, MS. RU ABOUT IT AND WE, SHE I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE GOING TO, THAT'S GONNA BE ADDRESSED.
SO MS. PART OF WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED YEAH, PART OF THAT VERY PROBLEM AND, UM, GEORGE, GEORGE AND DAVID AND AVERY HAVE COME IN AND WE HAD ABOUT A TWO HOUR CONVERSATION WITH 'EM THE LAST TIME CHAD WAS IN TOWN.
AND WE HAVE OUTLINED ALL THIS AND THEY, UH, KIND OF ARE WEIGHING PROS AND CONS IN LISTS OF THINGS OF WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE INCORPORATED AND WHAT THEIR, THEIR STAFF CAN ACCOMMODATE INCORPORATING.
BUT WHAT WE DISCUSSED ON THE EROSION CONTROL AND THE, THE WATER MAINTENANCE ON PROPERTY IS STILL VERY MUCH ON THE TABLE AND PART OF THAT SAME CONVERSATION.
WE'RE JUST NOT QUITE THERE YET.
JESSICA, ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE SEEING AGAIN OUT IN MY WARD IS THE, UM, DITCHES, MAYBE THIS ON THE PROPERTY LINES, THE REAR PROPERTY LINES THAT ACTUALLY BELONG TO THE HOMEOWNERS AND THE, THE PIPES AND STUFF THAT ARE THIS STORM WATER'S
[00:50:01]
TRAVELING THROUGH ARE IN SOME CASES VERY SMALL, TOO SMALL TO ACCOMMODATE THE, THE WATER.IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE, WE ADDRESS OR IS THAT SOMETHING THE ENGINEER THAT'S DESIGNING THE, THE, UH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THAT'S TYPICALLY IN THE PLAN THAT'S APPROVED BY THE STATE FOR THE STORM WATER? YEAH.
THE CITY OF NEW ME DOES NOT CREATE AND, AND OUR OWN STORM WATER STANDARDS, UM, ADDING ON, WE USE THE STATE MINIMUM AND WE DEFAULT TO THE STATE TO REVIEW THOSE PLANS AND INSPECT THOSE PLANS.
THAT'S NOT TO SAY HOW WE ALWAYS HAVE TO BE.
IT HAS BEEN PROPOSED ADDING MORE STRINGENT STANDARDS AND UM, OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT IS APPREHENSIVE TO DO THAT BECAUSE IT WOULD REQUIRE A LOT MORE PEOPLE IN THEIR OPINION.
AND THAT'S WHY THAT CONVERSATION IS STILL ONGOING.
GOOD QUESTIONS A LOT FOR, FOR EVERYBODY TO CONSIDER, UM, THIS ISSUE ABOUT HOW DO WE ADDRESS STORM WATER IN A SITUATION WHERE WE RELY ON THE STATE TO, TO DO OUR, OUR, OUR PERMITTING AND, AND HOW DO WE OPERATE IN THAT, IN THAT SCHEME? UM, AND, AND DO THAT EFFECTIVELY IS DEFINITELY A, A TOUGH ISSUE AND ONE THAT WE'RE EXPLORING.
UH, WE'VE GOT I THINK THE BEST GREEN STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE GUY IN THE STATE WORKING WITH US ON THIS PROJECT.
AND WE'RE WORKING WITH STAFF TO FIND THE WAY, FIND WHERE WE CAN MAKE IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE GONNA BE MANAGEABLE, ENFORCEABLE, UH, THAT, THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE HERE IN NEW BERN.
WE, SO WE ARE WORKING ON THAT.
DO YOU GUYS FEEL LIKE YOU, UM, ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THE CONDITIONAL REZONING IDEA, COMFORTABLE ENOUGH FOR US TO CONTINUE WITH THAT? OR AS AN ALTERNATIVE WE COULD CHOOSE NOT TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD.
YOU GUYS CAN CONTINUE TO KEEP CONVENTIONAL ZONING AS YOU HAVE IT NOW AND CONTINUE TO USE THE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AS IT'S CURRENTLY CONFIGURED.
UH, THAT'S CERTAINLY AN OPTION.
UM, THAT WOULD NOT BE OUR RECOMMENDATION, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S CERTAINLY AN OPTION FOR YOU TO CONSIDER.
UH, I'M COMFORTABLE CONTINUING TO LOOK AT IT.
THAT'S WHAT WE, WE WANTED TO BE SURE.
THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO COME AND TALK WITH YOU ABOUT SOME OF THESE BIG TICKET ITEMS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU, THERE'S A COMFORT LEVEL IN US PER, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THIS THERE.
IT'S, YOU'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GETTING MARRIED WITH THIS TODAY, BUT WE ARE, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO, TO MOVE FORWARD AND, AND BE COMFORTABLE THAT YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND AREN'T SURPRISED WHEN WE COME BACK WITH SOME STANDARDS.
UM, I'D LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT FEE.
UM, AND SO LET ME EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT FEE IN LIEU IS.
UM, I'M SURE THAT YOU HAVE DEALT WITH THIS BEFORE.
A FEE IN LIEU IS A, IS A PROCESS WHEREBY AN APPLICANT PUTS UP MONEY, PROVIDES MONEY, UM, TO THE CITY, UH, IN LIEU OF SOME SORT OF IMPROVEMENT.
WHETHER THAT'S A PIECE OF PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE A STREET OR A SIDEWALK OR A PIECE OF PRIVATE INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE STORMWATER CONTROL MEASURE OR REQUIRED LANDSCAPING OR LAND LIKE OPEN SPACE OR PARKLAND DEDICATION.
THEY GIVE MONEY INSTEAD OF GIVING LAND OR MONEY INSTEAD OF INSTALLING A SIDEWALK OR MONEY INSTEAD OF BUILDING A STREET OR PUTTING IN PLANTS.
THE FEE IN LIEU SYSTEM, UM, IS ONE THAT CAN BE VERY HELPFUL.
UM, THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT WAYS THAT FEE IN LIEU CAN BE USED.
ONE IS IT CAN BE MANDATED BY THE CITY IN CERTAIN INSTANCES.
FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S SAY FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT THAT SOMEBODY'S DOING A LARGE SUBDIVISION AND THE CITY MIGHT BE WORKING ON A PROJECT IN THE NEARBY AREA.
LET'S SAY YOU'RE DOING SOME STORMWATER PROJECT OR SOME KIND OF CITY STREET PROJECT NEARBY.
AND IF THIS DEVELOPER PUTS IN THE SIDEWALKS AS PART OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY HAVE TO DO, 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S IN THE CODE, THE CITY'S GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK AFTER THE FACT AND TEAR THOSE SIDEWALKS UP AS PART OF ITS PROJECT.
OKAY? AND THAT HAPPENS SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S NECESSARY TO MAKE CHANGES TO ROADWAYS OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
UM, IN THOSE INSTANCES WHERE THE CITY'S GOT SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY UNDERWAY AND IT'S, IT'S ONGOING BEFORE OR DURING A DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL, SOME CITIES MANDATE PAYMENT OF A FEE AND LOO IN THOSE INSTANCES, APPLICANT, WE'D RATHER YOU NOT PAY TO PUT THE SIDEWALKS IN SO THAT WE CAN CUT
[00:55:01]
THEM OUT AND TEAR THEM UP AND THEN JUST HAVE TO PUT THEM BACK INSTEAD.WHY DON'T YOU JUST GIVE US THE MONEY TO PUT IN THE SIDEWALKS? WE'LL FINISH OUR PROJECT AND THEN WE'LL INSTALL THEM.
OKAY? SO THERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW FEE IN LIEU, UH, IS USED EFFECTIVELY.
THAT'S ONE KIND A MANDATED FEE IN LIE.
THE UL THE OTHER SORT OF INSTANCE OR VARIETY IS AN APPLICANT REQUESTED FEE.
IN LIE, THE STANDARDS REQUIRE DEDICATION OF LAND OR PROVISION OF A SIDEWALK OR PLACEMENT OF VEGETATION, WHATEVER.
UM, AND FOR WHATEVER REASON THE APPLICANT WOULD PREFER TO, TO, TO PAY MONEY INSTEAD OF DOING THAT.
UM, THAT IS A MORE COMMON KIND OF A FEE IN LIEU REQUEST.
UH, WE WOULD, NOW THIS ISN'T NEW.
YOU GUYS HAVE THESE KINDS OF PROVISIONS IN YOUR CURRENT REGULATION.
WE ARE SUGGESTING RAISING THIS TO A SEPARATE PROCEDURE, A STANDALONE PROCEDURE.
I WANT TO BE SURE THAT YOU GUYS ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THE CONCEPT OF ACCEPTING FEE IN LIEU, WHETHER THAT BE FOR SIDEWALK OR STREETS OR PARKLAND OR VEGETATION OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
UM, I'LL GIVE YOU ONE LAST EXAMPLE.
UM, AND IT'S ONE THAT I THINK IS VERY COMPELLING.
UM, WE ARE CONSIDERING SUGGESTING WHAT WE CALL PARKING LOT CROSS ACCESS AND PARKING LOT CROSS ACCESS IS A SITUATION WHERE SIDE BY SIDE PARKING LOTS ALONG THE COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR ARE CONNECTED.
SO I CAN GO FROM ONE BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT TO THE NEXT BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT WITHOUT PULLING OUT ON THE ROAD, WITHOUT HAVING THAT TURNING MOVEMENT, WITHOUT CREATING TRAFFIC CONGESTION ON THE MAIN STREET.
I SIMPLY GO FROM ONE PARKING LOT TO ANOTHER.
RIGHT? WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THIS.
EVERYBODY'S SEEN THAT KIND OF A DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
THOSE KINDS OF PARKING LOT CROSS ACCESS STANDARDS MANDATE THAT DEVELOPMENT PUT IN THE PARKING LOT STUBS TO PHYSICALLY GET YOUR VEHICLE FROM ONE LOT TO THE NEXT.
THOSE STUBS HAVE TO GO TO THE PROPERTY LINE, OKAY? WHERE THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR THEN STUBS TO THE EXISTING PARKING LOT CROSS ACCESS WAY AND THUS YOU'VE GOT A CONNECTION.
NOW, IN SOME CASES, PROPERTIES DON'T DEVELOP AT THE SAME TIME.
THERE MIGHT BE A VACANT LOT NEXT DOOR.
ALRIGHT, WELL I NEED TO PUT IN MY, I'M BUILDING A BUILDING.
I NEED TO PUT IN MY CROSS ACCESS WAY STUB FOR MY PARKING LOT TO THE NEXT DOOR LOT THAT'S VACANT.
AND LET'S SAY I DON'T GET ALONG WITH THAT LANDOWNER, I HAD A FIGHT WITH THEM OR THERE WAS SOME SORT OF TROUBLE AS DEVELOPMENT WAS GOING ON.
IT'S NECESSARY FOR ME IN DOING MY STUB FOR MY PARKING LOT CROSS ACCESS TO, FOR ME TO HAVE EQUIPMENT ON HIS PROPERTY.
OKAY? THE, THE PAVING MACHINE PHYSICALLY CROSSES THE LOT LINE IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THE PAVING CONNECTION THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE UP TO THE, TO THE POINT OF THE LOT LINE.
NOW, IF THAT ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER DOES NOT GIVE ME ACCESS TO, TO COME ONTO HIS PROPERTY WITH MY EQUIPMENT, I CANNOT FINISH THE PARKING LOT CROSS ACCESS WAY.
I CAN GET IT AS CLOSE AS I CAN, BUT IT WON'T GO ALL THE WAY TO THE LOT LINE.
ALRIGHT? SO THERE'LL BE THIS NARROW STRIP OF LAND THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PAVING.
OKAY? WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THAT? ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S OFTEN DONE IS THAT A CITY COLLECTS A FEE IN LIEBE FOR THAT LAST THREE FEET OR FOUR FEET OF PAVEMENT.
OKAY? WHEN THE ADJACENT PROPERTY NEXT DOOR COMES ONLINE AND BUILDS OUT, THEY'RE GONNA BE REQUIRED TO PUT IN THEIR STUB TO THE PROPERTY LINE, OKAY? AND THERE'LL BE THIS LITTLE NARROW STRIP OF LAND THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PAVING.
THAT'S WHEN THE FEE IN LIEU COMES INTO PLAY.
THAT MONEY IS USED TO FINISH THE CONNECTION, OKAY? BETWEEN THE TWO LOTS SO THAT THERE'S AN EXISTING PARKING LOT CROSS ACCESS WAY THAT FUNCTIONS ALRIGHT? AND WE DID THAT EVEN THOUGH THAT, UH, ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER WAY BACK IN THE DAY WOULDN'T LET US CROSS HIS PROPERTY LINE AND FINISH TO THE WAT LINE.
THE CITY HAS A VEHICLE A MEANS A MECHANISM AND A FUNDING SOURCE TO COMPLETE THE CROSS ACCESS WAVE.
SO THERE'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF KIND OF A PRACTICAL REAL WORLD USE FOR FEE IN LIE.
UM, YOU USE IT WHEN YOU HAVE TO.
OKAY? WE WOULD SUGGEST THAT THIS PROCEDURE BE INCORPORATED INTO THE LUO THAT IT BE THE DECISION OF THE REVIEW AUTHORITY.
WHO'S MAKING THE DECISION ON THE APPLICATION ABOUT REQUESTS FOR FEE AND LIE, RIGHT? WHEN I SUBMIT MY DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION, I'M GONNA SUBMIT A FEE AND LIE REQUEST THAT DECISION ON THAT FEE AND LIE REQUEST IS GONNA BE MADE BY THE REVIEW AUTHORITY.
WHO'S DECIDING THE ASSOCIATED APPLICATION? SOMETIMES THE STUFF HAPPENS AFTER THE FACT, RIGHT? I GOT A SITE PLAN FOR MY SHOE STORE, I WAS DOING THE CROSS ACCESS WAY, AND THEN I, I MADE THE NEIGHBOR MAD AND NOW I CAN'T CROSS HIS PROPERTY.
I'VE GOTTA POST A FEE IN LIEU FOR THE REMAINING FIVE FEE OF CROSS ACCESS WAY PAVING IN THOSE INSTANCES, THAT'S AN AFTER THE FACT FEE IN LIE REQUEST.
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THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DIRECTOR.SO THAT WOULD BE THE SUGGESTION, THE, THE CONTOURS OF THAT KIND OF A PROPOSAL, THAT KIND OF PROCEDURE.
WHAT'S YOUR COMFORT LEVEL WITH THAT? DOES THAT FEEL OKAY? DO YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT THIS? THAT THIS ALSO, BY THE WAY, I I'M, I'M NOT HERE SUGGESTING ANYTHING THAT'S NEW OR FOR, YOU KNOW, CUTTING EDGE OR ANYTHING LIKE THIS.
THIS IS JUST BASIC, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPMENT PROCEDURE STUFF THAT'S IN USE THROUGHOUT THE, THE COUNTRY.
UH, BUT I WANTED TO GIVE THAT EXAMPLE TO YOU GUYS TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE.
DO YOU HAVE TO ALLOW FEE AND LOOP? NO.
SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO A FEE IN LIEU.
YOU NEED TO PUT IN THE INSTALL, YOU NEED TO PUT IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
LOTS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TAKE THAT APPROACH.
YOU GET TO DECIDE, BY THE WAY, UH, ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS OR AT LEAST THE, THE REVIEW AUTHORITY WHO'S DECIDING THE APPLICATION HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO DECIDE BASED ON THE CRITERIA WHETHER OR NOT A FEE IN THE REQUEST IS GONNA BE APPROVED.
THE ONLY QUESTION THAT I HAVE IN, IN REFERENCE TO THE FEE IN LIEU OF IS SAY FOR INSTANCE, I'M BUILDING MY STORE AND, UM, MY STORE IS COMPLETED, I PAY THE CITY THE, MY FEE IN LIEU MM-HMM.
AND THEN FOR SOME REASON, THAT PROJECT DON'T COME TO FRUITION FOR SEVEN OR EIGHT YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.
SO WILL I, THE CUSTOMER HAVE TO COME BACK AND, AND PAY THE DIFFERENCE IN COST BECAUSE OF A TIME PERIOD THAT'S GONE BY AND MATERIALS AND EVERYTHING ELSE HAS GONE UP.
YOU GAVE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF TWO NEIGHBORING PARCELS.
ONE BEING UNDEVELOPED, ONE BEING DEVELOPED.
WHAT IF ONE IS ALREADY DEVELOPED, THERE'S ALREADY CURB AND GUTTER AROUND THE WHOLE PARKING LOT AND THE PARCEL NEXT TO IT IS BEING DEVELOPED AND WE'RE REQUIRING THE ACCESS? GREAT QUESTION.
RIGHT? WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU CAN'T PHYSICALLY MAKE THE CONNECTION? BECAUSE THAT EXISTING PARKING LOT EITHER HASN'T BEEN SET UP FOR THAT OR THERE'S A GREAT BIG TOPOGRAPHIC DIFFERENCE OR THERE'S A STREAM OR WHATEVER.
SO THE CROSS, THE PARKING LOT, CROSS ACCESS PROVISIONS INCLUDE WITHIN THEM A SERIES OF ALTERNATE ARRANGEMENTS OR EXEMPTIONS FOR SITUATIONS LIKE THE ONE THAT YOU JUST RAISED.
AND THERE'S A HANDFUL OF OTHERS.
LET'S SAY FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, THAT NEXT DOOR TO ME IS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME.
UM, I DON'T HAVE A PARKING LOT, RIGHT? WHY WOULD WE REQUIRE A PARKING LOT STUB TO SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAVE A PARKING LOT AND NEVER WILL? SO THERE'S AN, A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT EXEMPTIONS, UM, AND CAVEATS TO WHEN THESE KINDS OF STANDARDS WOULD BE APPLIED.
UH, LAST THING I WOULD SAY ON, ON THIS, I, I WOULDN'T BE IN FAVOR OF THE MANDATORY FEE IN LOOP.
AND THE REASON WHY IS BECAUSE IF A DEVELOPER MOST OF THE TIME CAN INSTALL SIDEWALKS CHEAPER THAN WHAT THE CITY CAN MM-HMM.
AND SO THEN YOU GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE THE CITY SAYS YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE SIDEWALKS.
DON'T PUT 'EM IN 'CAUSE WE HAVE A PROJECT, BUT WE'RE GONNA CHARGE YOU X DOLLAR A SQUARE FOOT FOR THESE SIDEWALKS WHEN THE DEVELOPER COULD ACTUALLY DO IT A LOT CHEAPER.
I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE ON THEM IF THEY'RE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT AND THEY KNOW THAT IT'S THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEIR DEVELOPMENT AND IT'S GONNA GET TORE UP AND THE CITY'S GOTTA PUT IT BACK.
I DON'T, I'M NOT, I'M NOT A FAN OF THE MANDATORY, OKAY, YOU'VE GOTTA DO IT THIS WAY BECAUSE THAT, THAT HAS BEEN AN ISSUE IN THE PAST.
BUT ISN'T THAT THE WAY IT'S CURRENTLY ALREADY MISS, MISS, UH, RU WITH SIDEWALKS? IF YOU'RE BUILDING A BUILDING THAT IS MANDATORY NOW THAT THEY'RE, THEY PUT IN THE SIDEWALK.
ACTUALLY, OUR ORDINANCE HAS NOT BEEN CLEAR ON THIS.
AND OUR LEGAL TEAM HAS ADVISED THAT IN SUBDIVISIONS, YES, WE CAN REQUIRE THE, THE SIDEWALKS, BUT THE LANGUAGE IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO REQUIRE THEM TO PUT IN A SIDEWALK IN MOST COMMERCIAL AREAS.
SO THAT HAS BEEN NOTED AND IT'S BEEN ADDRESSED AND DISCUSSED WITH THEM.
SO WE HAVE THAT IN THE FUTURE.
IT'S JUST HOW WE MAKE THAT HAPPEN NOW, OR IF WE WEATHER OR NOT, WE WANT TO OFFER THESE OPTIONS ON HOW TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
BUT WE DO GET THE SENTIMENT, WELL, THE CITY IS VERY PRO SIDEWALK.
IT'S JUST HOW WE MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
WOULD THAT BE UP TO YOUR DISCRETION? JESSICA? IS, I, I, I'VE JUST HEARD FROM A COUPLE PEOPLE.
ONE OF 'EM I'M GOING TO IS ON RACETRACK ROAD CHURCH.
IT'S NOT A SIDEWALK WITHIN A A MILE OF IT, AND THEY HAD TO SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO PUT SIDEWALK ACROSS THE FRONT OF THEIR PROPERTY.
I HAVE NOT REQUIRED ANY SIDEWALK SINCE I'VE BEEN EMPLOYED HERE.
OTHERS, OTHERS IN THAT DEPARTMENT HAVE IN THE PAST.
[01:05:01]
YEAH.AND, AND THEY CONNECT TO NOTHING, AND THEY PROBABLY NEVER WILL CONNECT TO ANYTHING.
AND IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THERE'S A FEE IN LIEU, UM, IS SO THAT THERE'S A RECOGNITION THAT IN THE, IN THE INSTANCE THAT YOU RAISED HERE IS A DEVELOPMENT.
WE NORMALLY WOULD REQUIRE SIDEWALKS TO BE INSTALLED, BUT FOR THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE LIKELIHOOD OF A SIDEWALK CONNECTION OCCURRING IN THE NEXT 20 OR 30 YEARS IS REMOTE.
UM, MIGHT WE REQUIRE A FEE IN LIEU FROM THAT APPLICANT AND THEN USE THAT MONEY TO INSTALL A SIDEWALK IN ANOTHER PORTION OF THE CITY CLOSE BY THAT DOES CREATE OR CONTINUE A NETWORK.
I, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.
I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT'S WHAT SOME LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN NORTH CAROLINA DO.
I, I KNOW IF I WAS A CONTRACTOR AND, AND YOU'RE GONNA SAY YOU EITHER HAVE TO PUT A SIDEWALK IN OR PAY FOR US TO DO IT IN THE FUTURE, AND YOU TAKE MY MONEY AND GO PUT SIDEWALK IN ANOTHER COMMUNITY, I'M GOING TO BE SOME KIND OF UPSET.
IN FACT, I'M GONNA BE SAYING I'LL PUT MY OWN SIDEWALK IN, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM.
BUT I THINK IT'S BAD THAT WE'VE REQUIRED PEOPLE TO PUT SIDEWALKS IN WHEN THE SIDEWALK'S IN FRONT OF THEIR PROPERTY AND THAT'S IT.
AND THERE'S NOT ANOTHER SIDEWALK FOR MILES AROUND.
JOHNNY, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT? YES.
IT'S NOT UNCOMMON TO INCLUDE, UH, SOME STANDARDS FOR THE SITUATION THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE REQUIRE SIDEWALKS, BUT THERE'S SOME INSTANCES WHERE MAYBE THAT'S NOT REASONABLE OR IT'S NOT PRACTICABLE TO, TO REQUIRE THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, IF, I MEAN, IS IT REASONABLE TO COLLECT THE SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS FROM THE CONTRACTOR TO HOLD FOR 30 YEARS? A, A POLICY MATTER? SOME LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DO COLLECT THOSE KINDS OF FUNDS.
I, I WOULD SAY THAT MANY OF THOSE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS COLLECT AN AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT'S SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN WHAT A SIDEWALK WOULD NORMALLY COST.
UM, BUT THAT ALSO IS A POLICY MATTER.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I THINK THAT IT'S UP TO, TO IT'S UP TO YOU AND, AND THIS BODY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU, YOU WISH TO DO THAT.
I'VE HEARD YOU SAY THAT'S NOT REALLY SOMETHING THAT YOU'D FAVOR.
AND LOTS OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DON'T REQUIRE SIDEWALKS.
IN INSTANCES WHERE YOU COULDN'T REASONABLY EXPECT A SIDEWALK EXTENSION WITHIN A SPECIFIED DURATION OF TIME, UM, WE WOULD EXPECT TO INCLUDE SOME KINDS OF STANDARDS IN THE LUO THAT CLARIFIED, GAVE MORE GUIDANCE ABOUT WHEN WOULD YOU HAVE TO DO A SIDEWALK AND WHEN WOULDN'T YOU HAVE TO DO A SIDEWALK.
UM, SO THAT YOU'RE NOT FACED WITH THAT SITUATION WHERE, GOSH, I HAD TO SPEND, YOU KNOW, 70, 80, A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS ON A SIDEWALK THAT'S NEVER GONNA CONNECT TO ANYTHING.
OR AT LEAST NOT IN MY LIFETIME.
UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE KINDS OF STANDARDS YOU SHOULD EXPECT TO SEE, UH, IN AN LUO.
UH, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GONNA BE SOME INSTANCES WHERE YEAH, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO REQUIRE A SIDEWALK AND OTHERS WHERE IT WILL.
I, I THINK I'D MUCH RATHER SEE SOME MINIMUM WIDTH STANDARDS ON STREETS AND, AND HAVE A, AN OVERALL MINIMUM WIDTH IN THE CITY THAT CAN ACCOMMODATE IF WE'RE GONNA ALLOW PARKING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ROAD.
AND THEN FOR HEAVY EQUIPMENT TO GET THROUGH AS WELL.
NOT LIKE WHAT WE HAVE IN ONE OR TWO SUBDIVISIONS THAT WE HAVE IN THE CITY NOW, WHERE IF SOMEONE'S PARKED ON INSIDE THE STREET, A FIRER COULDN'T GET THROUGH IF THEY WANTED TO.
UH, I THINK THAT'S BEEN ADDRESSED THOUGH.
HAS IT NOT? DON'T WE HAVE MINIMUM WHIPS ON ALL STREETS NOW? NO.
WELL, I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS THAT, AND I HOPE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S INVOLVED IN IT IN THE AS WELL.
UM, WE, YOU KNOW, STREET CONNECTIVITY AND THE ABILITY TO, TO MOVE AROUND THE CITY, UM, WHETHER THAT'S ON FOOT OR IN A CAR, IS, IS VERY MUCH A PART OF WHAT WE ARE WORKING ON.
UH, WE DO ANTICIPATE ADJUSTMENTS FOR MINIMUM STREET RIGHT OF WAY BASED ON STREET TYPE AND SOME ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR STREET CONTINUATION, STREET CONNECTION, UH, MULTIPLE ACCESS POINTS FOR REASONS OF SAFETY.
UM, SOME OTHER KINDS OF PROVISIONS IN LOCKSTEP WITH YOUR FIRE DEPARTMENT AND MAKING SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS, YOU KNOW, SAFE AND FUNCTIONAL, UH, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE STATE.
UM, AND MINIMUM STREET WITS ARE PART OF WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON.
YOU MENTIONED SOME LOCAL GOVERNMENTS THAT REQUIRE THIS.
DO YOU KNOW OF ANY NEIGHBORING CITIES
[01:10:01]
THAT ALREADY HAVE THIS POLICY FEE IN LIE IN PLACE? THE CITY OF JACKSONVILLE DOES.DEFENDANT COUNTY ALSO DOES JACKSONVILLE AND WHERE ELSE DID YOU SAY? BEND COUNTY PENN.
YOU, YOU WOULD FIND THIS IN, IN, IN WILMINGTON.
YOU'D FIND IT, YOU KNOW, IN, IN MOREHEAD CITY.
UM, I'M SURE THERE'S A FEE, I DON'T KNOW THIS FOR CERTAIN, BUT I'M SURE THERE'S A FEE IN LIEU FOR CERTAIN KINDS OF THINGS IN HAVELOCK.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S NOT AN UNCOMMON STANDARD.
WOULD THE, THIS FEE IN LIE, UM, WHAT'S THE WORD FORMAT? UM, ALSO INCLUDE SITUATIONS WHERE A DEVELOPER IS COMING TO THE COMMUNITY, UM, WITH A PLAN THAT MEETS MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS.
UM, BUT THEY ALSO THEN ARE LOOKING TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, INCREASE THE HOUSING DENSITY THAT, UM, THEY WOULD LIKE TO BUILD VERSUS JUST MEETING THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS.
UM, WHAT, WHAT I'M USED TO IN, YOU KNOW, IN MY PREVIOUS WORK LIFE IS THAT IN, IN THOSE SITUATIONS, UM, THE COMMUNITY AND THE DEVELOPER HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THE REQUEST AND POTENTIALLY, UM, COME UP WITH A, A FEE.
AND WHETHER IT'S THIS FEE, MO OR SOMETHING ELSE, IT MAY BE CATEGORIZED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.
THE, THE DEVELOPER IS GETTING THE BENEFIT OF HIGHER DENSITY IN SOME OR ALL OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS CERTAINLY A FINANCIAL BENEFIT TO THEM.
UM, BUT THE COMMUNITY THEN IS LOOKING FOR A FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTION TO BE MADE BY THE DEVELOPER.
UM, AND THAT MONEY COULD THEN BE USED TO, UM, MAKE SOME OFFSITE IMPROVEMENTS.
COULD BE, YOU KNOW, INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, AN INTERSECTION THAT'S CLOSE TO THE ENTRANCE TO A COMMUNITY, OR, UM, IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, PUTTING IN SIDEWALKS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
IT COULD BE PARKS AND REC IMPROVEMENT, RIGHT.
PURCHASING PARKWAY IN THE AREA.
IT COULD BE ANY NUMBER OF THINGS.
UM, BUT THERE'S, THERE'S A TRADE OFF.
IF, IF A HIGHER DENSITY IS BENEFICIAL TO THE COMMUNITY, THEN THE GOVERNING BODY OR THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, UM, MIGHT VERY WELL, YOU KNOW, CONSIDER THAT.
BUT THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME TRADE OFF THERE.
UM, CURRENTLY, I, I THINK I, I BELIEVE THAT WE'RE PROHIBITED FROM, UM, ENTERING INTO THAT KIND OF A DISCUSSION WITH THE DEVELOPER.
UH, WELL, WE, WE HAVE A COMPLICATED LEGAL LANDSCAPE IN NORTH CAROLINA TO BE SURE.
UM, THE SCENARIO THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS A CASH PROFFER, UH, AND THE DEVELOPER PROFFERS FUNDS, UM, AS PART OF A DISCRETIONARY, UH, APPLICATION REVIEW, LIKE A REZONING TO A LOCAL GOVERNMENT FOR, YOU KNOW, THEIR USE.
THOSE FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE FOR USE.
UH, IT'S NECESSARY TO STIPULATE WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO USE THOSE FUNDS FOR IN YOUR ORDINANCE.
CAN YOU DO THAT IN NORTH CAROLINA? AND THE ANSWER IS AFFIRM, MAYBE, UM, PROBABLY NOT FOR WATER AND SEWER EXTENSION.
SO FOR STREETS, SIDEWALKS, AND PARKS.
NOW, I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT WE SHOULD INCORPORATE INCENTIVES.
WE SHOULD INCORPORATE SOME FLEXIBILITY FOR APPLICANTS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE MINOR DE MINIMUS INCREASES IN ALLOWABLE DENSITY FOR THE PROVISION OF IMPORTANT COMMUNITY DESIRED THINGS.
WHETHER THAT'S ATTAINABLE HOUSING, EXTRA PARK, LAND, SIDEWALKS, HIGHER QUALITY DESIGN, WHATEVER.
UM, I WOULD, UH, I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT WE PROCEED WITH CAUTION.
IF YOU WANT TO USE A CASH PROFFER SYSTEM, UM, CAN YOU DO IT? UM, THE ATTORNEYS THAT I WORK WITH SAY, YES, YOU CAN.
UM, SHOULD YOU DO IT IS A DIFFERENT QUESTION.
[01:15:01]
SOME, SOME, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS TO BE SOME SYSTEMS PUT IN PLACE.AND THE STIPULATIONS ON, ON NEEDING TO STATE WHAT THOSE FUNDS ARE FOR, UH, CREATES A LITTLE BIT OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN.
THERE'S A, THERE HAS TO BE A NEXUS A, A CONNECTION, UH, BETWEEN THE ANTICIPATED IMPACT OF THE ADDITIONAL DENSITY THAT'S ANTICIPATED AND WHAT YOU INTEND ON USING THE MONEY TO ADDRESS.
THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THOSE THINGS.
SO THERE'S SOME, SOME LIMITATIONS ON OUR USE OF CASH PROFFERS IN NORTH CAROLINA.
IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT YOU CAN'T DO IT.
YOU CAN, AT LEAST FOR SOME FORMS OF INFRASTRUCTURE.
BUT WE BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE NUMEROUS ROBUST WAYS TO INCORPORATE INCENTIVES IN YOUR LUO THAT ALLOW US TO SIDESTEP SOME OF THE, THE DOWNSIDE TO THE CASH PROFFER SYSTEM, BUT STILL PERMIT THE FLEXIBILITY TO HAVE ADDITIONAL DENSITY AND FOR THE CITY TO, UH, GARNER SOME POSITIVE PUBLIC BENEFITS, LIKE EXTRA PARKLAND OR SIDEWALK MONEY OR OTHER ASPECTS.
UM, SO THAT WOULD BE OUR SUGGESTION.
UM, YES, INCORPORATE SOME INCENTIVE PROGRAMS INTO THE LUO, UH, PERHAPS STOP SHORT OF, UH, A CASH PROFFER AND INSTEAD ACCEPT LAND OR, UH, DESIGNATED MONEY, MONEY THAT'S DESIGNATED FOR SPECIFIC THINGS OR ONSITE IMPROVEMENTS OR NEARBY IMPROVEMENTS, UM, THAT EXCEED THE STANDARD.
SO A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO APPROACH THAT, THAT, BUT THE CONCEPT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE APPLICANTS ARE HAVING AN, AN INCREMENT OF ALLOWABLE DENSITY ABOVE AND BEYOND THE BASE WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH A REZONING IN TRADE FOR SOMETHING, UM, IS VERY MUCH IN USE IN NORTH CAROLINA.
AND SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD SUGGEST YOU CONSIDER USING IN IN YOUR LUO, UH, TO, TO GOOD EFFECT.
SO WOULD THIS BE THE, THE GENERAL CATEGORY THAT IT FALLS IN, OR IS THERE A SEPARATE CATEGORY SOMEWHERE IN HERE? YEAH, I WOULDN'T CALL THIS, I WOULDN'T CALL IT A F LU.
I WOULD CALL IT A, AN INCENTIVE OR AN ALTERNATIVE.
AND, AND THEY'RE MOST LIKELY TO SHOW UP AS PART OF THESE CONDITIONAL RESILIENT CASES.
THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE YOU'RE GONNA SEE THEM THERE OR IN DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS.
I WANT TO BE SURE, UH, ABOUT PROCEDURAL STUFF.
UM, ONE LAST THING I'D LIKE TO MAKE, UH, MAKE A POINT FOR, UM, FOR THE ALDERMAN.
UM, WE ARE SUGGESTING, UH, I, YOU HEARD ME MENTION AT THE HEAD OF THE CONVERSATION, UM, RECOGNIZING YOUR PROFESSIONAL STAFF AND DELEGATING AUTHORITY TO THE STAFF WHERE THAT'S ALLOWABLE AND PRACTICAL AND CONSISTENT WITH HOW YOU WANT TO GOVERN THE CITY.
WE WOULD SUGGEST THAT, UM, PRELIMINARY PLATS, PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION PLATS BE REVIEWED AND DECIDED ADMINISTRATIVELY INSTEAD OF SENDING THOSE TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, UM, THAT SITE PLANS BE DECIDED ADMINISTRATIVELY INSTEAD OF SENDING THOSE TO, UH, A PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.
UM, NOW THE, WE ARE SUGGESTING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A STAFF-LED TECHNICAL REVIEW COMMITTEE COMPRISED OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, PUBLIC WORKS, POLICE, FIRE, ALL OF THE DIFFERENT AGENCIES THAT ARE INVOLVED, UH, WITH DEVELOPMENT HERE IN THE CITY.
UM, THAT THAT'S AN APPROPRIATE FORUM.
BUT THE NOTION OF SENDING WHAT, WHAT THE, THE SO-CALLED MINISTERIAL OR ADMINISTRATIVE KINDS OF APPLICATIONS LIKE SUBDIVISIONS TO PLANNING AND ZONING BOARDS OR HIGHER BODIES, IS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD SUGGEST NOT BE DONE THAT, THAT BE AUTHORIZED, THAT STAFF BE AUTHORIZED TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS, UM, ON PRELIMINARY PLATS AND SITE PLANS.
AND I JUST WANTED TO GAUGE, SEE IF YOU HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT CONCEPT, ENGAGE YOUR LEVEL OF COMFORT WITH THAT.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.
I ACTUALLY ASKED, WHEN I HEARD ABOUT THIS, I ASKED ONE OF THE MEMBERS, ACTUALLY TWO OF THE MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING, AND THEY SAID IT WOULD TAKE A LOAD OFF OF THEM AND THEY WELCOMED IT.
AND CERTAINLY WITH SPEED THE PROCESS UP AS WELL.
IS IS AGAIN, JUST FOR, SAY YOU LOOKING AT OUR, OUR EXISTING STAFF, UM, ARE THEY PREPARED TO TAKE THIS ADDITIONAL WORKLOAD ON OR ARE WE LOOKING AT NEEDING TO ADD TO STAFF? GREAT QUESTION.
IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE, UM, SUCH A, AN ACTION, UM,
[01:20:01]
ALL OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE'RE SUGGESTING ARE ACCOMPLISHABLE WITH THE STAFF THAT YOU HAVE IN PLACE NOW AND THEY'RE ALREADY DOING IT.UM, IT'S JUST THAT IT'S GOING TO PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD TOO.
UH, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALREADY EXERCISING THOSE REVIEWS.
AND I WOULD JUST ADD, I WOULD ANTICIPATE, UH, MORE OF THE LARGER TYPE SUBDIVISIONS YOU'RE USED TO BE USED TO SEEING GO TO PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.
THOSE WILL BE PROCESSED AS CONDITIONAL USE ZONING OR CONDITIONAL ZONING.
SO RIGHT NOW, ALL OF THESE SUBDIVISIONS THAT ARE GOING THROUGH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, ARE STILL GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
THEY'RE JUST GETTING SENT TO PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD AND THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ADD OR CHANGE 'EM BECAUSE STAFF HAS ALREADY SAID IT, MET THE ORDINANCE.
AND AS HE SAID, THIS WAS ADMINISTRATIVE IN NATURE.
THE WAY OUR, OUR LEGISLATURE DESCRIBES IT, THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO MUCH WHEN THEY SEE A SUBDIVISION.
SO IT SHOULD BE STOPPING AT A STAFF LEVEL NOW.
AND JUST FOR CLARITY ON A SUBDIVISION, WHAT YOU THINK OF AS A SUBDIVISION, NOT JUST, I GOT THIS PIECE OF LAND I WANNA SPLIT IN HALF TO GIVE IT TO MY TWO KIDS, A MORE TRADITIONAL SUBDIVISION THAT'S GOING TO GO THROUGH OUR DEVELOPMENT REVIEW COMMITTEE.
IT ALREADY DOES AND HAS BEEN FOR YEARS.
IT WILL JUST END THERE ONCE ALL THOSE BOXES ARE CHECKED AND EITHER ME OR MY DESIGNEE WILL PUT A SIGNATURE ON IT AND IT WILL BE OVER RATHER THAN DOING THE ADDITIONAL PAPERWORK AND STREAM OF SENDING IT ON A PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.
AND, AND I THINK THAT KIND OF GETS BACK TO COMMENTS THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD YES, IT DOES.
YOU KNOW, FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S LIKE, WELL, WE'RE, WE'RE JUST A RUBBER STAMP, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE WE GET THIS PLAN NOT, AND IT CONNECTS, WE'RE NOT TALKING TO A DEVELOPER ABOUT IT 'CAUSE IT'S ALREADY MET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS.
SO WE JUST KIND OF PUT OUR STAMP ON IT.
SO IS, YOU KNOW, IS THAT A VALUABLE PROCESS TO MAINTAIN? PROBABLY NOT.
AND IT'S ALSO PROBABLY WHY ALDERMAN ASHER MADE HIS COMMENTS THAT THEY FELT LIKE, WELL, THIS IS KIND OF JUST CLOGGING THEM UP BECAUSE THEY ARE WATCHING MULTIPLE PRESENTATIONS AT SOME MEETINGS AT THIS POINT IN TIME THAT THEY TRULY, UM, IT'S JUST PAPERWORK FOR THEM AND TIME CONSUMING AT THIS POINT.
DOES IT MEAN, SO WHY ARE WE, WHY WOULD WE HAVE THEM REVIEW IT SINCE THEY CAN'T SAY NO? MM-HMM.
TO HAVING THAT EXTRA STEP IN THE RIGHT.
UM, I, I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT, I, I'D LIKE TO TAKE UP ONE MORE, UH, FAIRLY IMPORTANT ISSUE WITH YOU GUYS THAT WE THINK MAY BE A SOURCE OF CONFUSION FOR THE COMMUNITY IN THE COMING DAYS AND WEEKS.
AND WE'RE, WE ARE GETTING OUR VARIOUS DUCKS IN A ROW SO THAT WE CAN EXPLAIN THIS STUFF PROPERLY WHEN THE TIME COMES SO THAT PEOPLE CAN PARTICIPATE IN A MEANINGFUL WAY AND UNDERSTAND WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED.
SO WHAT I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT NOW, UM, FOR THE NEXT 10 15 MINUTES IS THE ZONING MAP AND SPECIFICALLY THE COMPLEXITY OF THE ZONING MAP THAT EXISTS HERE IN NEW BERN.
AND I MENTIONED EARLIER YOU HAVE ABOUT 19 BASE DISTRICTS AND THERE ARE NUMEROUS, NUMEROUS OVERLAYS.
I DON'T REMEMBER HOW MANY THERE ARE.
I'M TALKING ABOUT, UH, THE ZONING MAP CHANGES ON PAGES ON PAGE TWO OF THE HANDOUT.
UM, WE ARE SUGGESTING A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE.
UM, MORE CLARITY ON THE DISTRICTS THEMSELVES.
UM, MORE CLARITY ABOUT DIMENSIONAL REQUIREMENTS AND REMOVING SOME OF THE GEOGRAPHIC COMPLEXITIES THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE STACKING OF THE OVERLAY DISTRICTS.
SO A BASE ZONING DISTRICT IS APPLIED TO LAND EVERY LAND, EVERY PIECE OF EVERY LOT, EVERY PIECE OF LAND IN NEW BERN EXCEPT YOUR STREETS HAS A ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION.
AND THAT ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION EXPLAINS WHAT ARE THE RANGE OF ALLOWABLE USES AND WHAT ARE THE DIMENSIONAL STANDARDS THAT APPLY TO THOSE USES ON THAT PROPERTY.
THAT'S A BASE ZONING DISTRICT.
EVERYBODY HAS ONE NOW, LOTS OF PROPERTY IN TOWN ALSO HAVE ONE OR MORE OVERLAY ZONING DISTRICTS.
FOR EXAMPLE, DOWNTOWN IS A LOCAL HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT.
OKAY? AND THERE ARE A BUNCH OF STANDARDS THAT COME WITH BEING IN A LOCAL HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT PROVISIONS ABOUT EXTERIOR MATERIALS, PROVISIONS ABOUT HOW WORK GETS DONE ON YOUR PROPERTY PROTECTION FOR TREES.
[01:25:01]
LOTS OF DIFFERENT STANDARDS THAT ROLL WITH THIS LOCAL HISTORIC OVERLAY ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION.THOSE RIDE ON TOP OF THE BASE ZONING DISTRICT.
SO I GOT MY BASE STANDARDS, THEN I GOT MY OVERLAY STANDARDS.
NOW, HERE'S WHERE IT STARTS TO GET FUN.
NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE THAT SITUATION, A BASE ZONING DISTRICT AND ONE OVERLAY.
YOU HAVE NUMEROUS INSTANCES ACROSS TOWN WHERE THERE ARE MULTIPLE OVERLAYS.
THERE'S A WATERFRONT OVERLAY, THERE'S A FLOOD OVERLAY, THERE'S A REDEVELOPMENT OVERLAY, THERE'S A NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION OVERLAY.
THERE'S A, A COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR OVERLAY, ASSIGNED CORRIDOR OVERLAY AND ON AND ON AND ON.
AND SO IT'S NOT ILLOGICAL TO THINK THAT THERE ARE PIECES OF PROPERTY HERE IN TOWN THAT HAVE A BASE ZONING DISTRICT AND MULTIPLE SETS OF OTHER STANDARDS THAT ARE STACKED TO TOP IT.
IT'S HARD TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S ALLOWABLE, PARTICULARLY IN INSTANCES WHERE THE BASE ZONING DISTRICT STANDARD SETS OUT DIMENSIONAL REQUIREMENTS AND THE OVERLAY ZONING DISTRICT HAS ADDITIONAL DIMENSIONAL REQUIREMENTS.
OKAY? THAT BECOMES DIFFICULT TO MANAGE AND UNDERSTAND.
WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO, WHAT WE WOULD SUGGEST IS TO SIMPLIFY THIS PROCESS IN A COUPLE OF WAYS.
FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE'D LIKE TO CONSOLIDATE THE RANGE OF DISTRICTS BASE ZONING DISTRICTS FROM 19 DOWNWARDS TO 14.
OKAY? ALSO, WE WOULD LIKE TO TURN SOME OF YOUR OVERLAYS INTO BASE ZONING DISTRICTS.
FOR EXAMPLE, WE'D LIKE TO TAKE YOUR HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT, YOUR LOCAL HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT, NOT YOUR REGISTER DISTRICT, YOUR LOCAL DISTRICT.
TURN THAT INTO A BASE ZONING DISTRICT.
BY THE WAY, THERE IS A CURRENT BASE ZONING DISTRICT THAT EXISTS TODAY THAT IS ENCAPSULATED WHOLLY WITHIN YOUR LOCAL HISTORIC OVERLAY ZONING DISTRICT.
IT'S THE C ONE DISTRICT, YOUR DOWNTOWN CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT.
OKAY? WHAT WE WOULD SUGGEST IS LET'S TAKE THE C ONE AND JOIN IT WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND TURN IT INTO A NEW BASE DISTRICT.
NOW WE NEED TO HAVE TWO FLAVORS, RIGHT? THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE FAMILIAR WITH DOWNTOWN KNOW THAT WE HAVE NON-RESIDENTIAL USES IN DOWNTOWN.
WE HAVE RESIDENTIAL USES IN DOWNTOWN.
THE HISTORIC DISTRICT NEEDS TO HAVE A RESIDENTIAL FLAVOR AND A NON-RESIDENTIAL FLAVOR.
ALRIGHT? SO THERE ARE SUB-DISTRICTS, THERE ARE PIECES OF THIS LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT CONCEPT, THIS IDEA OF JOINING EXISTING BASE DISTRICTS WITH OVERLAYS AND CREATING NEW BASE DISTRICTS OUT OF THOSE COMBINATIONS ARE AN IMPORTANT STRATEGY TO SIMPLIFYING THE REGULATION.
NOW WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S GOING TO BE NECESSARY TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT'S AN OVERLAY DISTRICT? WHAT'S A BASE ZONING DISTRICT? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING BE DONE? AND HOW DOES THAT AFFECT MY PROPERTY? WE NEED TO PREPARE THAT INFORMATION AND POST IT ON THE WEBSITE, OKAY? AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO DO IN ADVANCE OF THESE ROUND TABLE MEETINGS THAT WE'RE GONNA SUGGEST FOR OCTOBER, UH, AND NOVEMBER.
NOW, THE REASON THAT I'M TELLING YOU ABOUT IT IS WE WANT TO BE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A STRATEGY WE'D LIKE TO PURSUE.
WE ARE NOT TAKING AWAY ANY STANDARDS.
WE'RE NOT CHANGING THE STANDARDS.
WE'RE REPACKAGING HOW YOU APPLY THEM INSTEAD OF ONE BASE DISTRICT IN MULTIPLE OVERLAYS.
WE WANT TO SIMPLIFY THAT PROCESS BY SIMPLY HAVING A BASE DISTRICT.
OKAY? AND WE'D LIKE TO DO THIS FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
WE'D LIKE TO DO THIS FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT DISTRICT.
WE'D LIKE TO DO THIS FOR THE RIVER STATION EXCUSE DISTRICT.
WE'D LIKE TO MAKE A COUPLE OF OTHER CHANGES TO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION OVERLAY DISTRICTS.
INSTEAD OF THREE, HAVING A SINGLE DISTRICT.
WE'D LIKE TO SUGGEST GETTING RID OF SOME OF THE CORRIDOR DISTRICTS THAT YOU HAVE AND MAKING THOSE BASIC STANDARDS.
AND LEMME GIVE YOU SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT I MEAN BY THAT.
RIGHT NOW, TODAY YOU HAVE A C TWO WATERFRONT DISTRICT, OKAY? IT'S A BASE ZONING DISTRICT THAT YOU APPLY TO WATERFRONT AREAS, OKAY? YOU ALSO HAVE A NEW BERN WATERFRONT AREA OVERLAY DISTRICT.
THESE TWO THINGS ARE BASICALLY THE SAME THING.
WE CAN ACCOMPLISH THE HEIGHT LIMIT STANDARDS AND THE SETBACK PROVISIONS THAT ARE EMBEDDED IN THESE ZONING DISTRICTS BY JOINING THEM AND MAKING THEM BASIC STANDARDS THAT WE APPLY TO ANY LOT WITHIN, UH, A CERTAIN DISTANCE FROM A, FROM A RIVER OR A A, A WATER BODY.
SO IT'S THIS KIND OF THINKING, THESE CONSOLIDATIONS OF THESE OVERLAYS, CONSOLIDATIONS
[01:30:01]
OF SOME BASE ZONING DISTRICTS, REMOVAL OF SOME, SOME ZONING RELATED PROVISIONS AND CONVERSION TO JUST GENERALLY APPLICABLE STANDARDS THAT WE APPLY IN CERTAIN AREAS OF TOWN, UM, WILL BE A MAJOR TIME SAVER, UH, FOR FOLKS WHO ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE REGULATIONS.YOU HAVE MAJOR TIME SAVER FOR STAFF AND TRYING TO EXPLAIN THE REGULATIONS AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA LOSE ANY OF THE STANDARDS OR THE PROTECTIONS THAT THESE KINDS OF OVERLAID AND, AND BASE DISTRICTS ARE PROVIDING YOU NOW.
ALRIGHT? SO I REALIZE THAT THAT'S A, A, A QUICK OVERVIEW OF THIS, THIS PAGE TWO OF FOUR DETAILS, THE CONSOLIDATIONS, CONVERSIONS, DISTRICT ABOLITIONS THAT WE WOULD SUGGEST BE MADE.
UM, THIS WILL RESULT IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE 14 BASE DISTRICTS, TWO OVERLAYS, A FLOOD OVERLAY AND A NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION OVERLAY, UH, DRASTICALLY SIMPLIFIED FROM WHAT YOU'VE GOT TODAY.
SAME RULES, JUST SIMPLER, EASIER TO UNDERSTAND, EASIER TO EXPLAIN.
WE'RE JUST GETTING STARTED WITH THIS CONVERSATION WITH THE COMMUNITY AND WE'VE HAD SOME VERY GOOD ADVICE ABOUT HOW TO PREPARE SOME BASIC DETAILS OF HOW THIS WORKS AND WHAT'S AN OVERLAY DISTRICT AND WHAT'S A BASE DISTRICT, AND SHARING THAT WITH THE COMMUNITY BEFORE WE COME BACK IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER TO HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS IN MORE DETAIL ABOUT WHAT WE WOULD SUGGEST BE DONE WITH THESE ZONING DISTRICTS.
OKAY? DO, DO, DO WE OR DO YOU HAVE THE AVAIL ABILITY, I GUESS I SHOULD SAY, TO SHOW A CURRENT VERSUS A PROPOSED MAP.
LIKE IF YOU HAD A PICTURE THAT SHOWED A BASE DISTRICT THAT WAS ONE COLOR AND AN OVERLAY THAT WAS ANOTHER COLOR AND ANOTHER OVERLAY, A DIFFERENT COLOR THAT ALL LAID, LAID ON TOP OF EACH OTHER TO SHOW THAT VISUAL AND THEN SHOW WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING.
SO I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE HELPFUL WHEN WE GET TO THE POINT TO GET TO THE PUBLIC.
THEY'RE GONNA NEED TO SEE THAT.
UH, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE GRAPHIC IMAGES THAT WE NEED TO PREPARE, AT LEAST FROM A CONCEPTUAL LEVEL.
YOU CAN IMAGINE A GRAPHIC THAT HAS MULTIPLE COLORS OF STUFF STACKED ON IT VERSUS WHAT IT MIGHT BE IF IT WAS JUST A SINGLE BASE DISTRICT, A POWERFUL IMAGE THAT EXPLAINS WHAT WE'RE DOING.
UM, SO YES, UH, GOOD SUGGESTION AND, AND WE AGREE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE PREPARING.
OKAY? THERE IS ONE AREA THAT WE DO, UH, WE HAVE SOME OVERLAP THAT WE, WE DON'T HAVE AN EASY ANSWER FOR AND WE'VE GOT TO, UH, GOT TO ADDRESS THAT.
AND LET ME TRY TO EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS.
SO I MENTIONED A SECOND AGO, WE WANT TO TURN THE LOCAL HISTORIC OVERLAY INTO A BASE DISTRICT.
OKAY? I ALSO MENTIONED THAT YOU HAVE THE FIVE POINTS REDEVELOPMENT OVERLAY, ZONING DISTRICT AS WELL.
OKAY? WE'D LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT THAT BE CONVERTED INTO A NEW REDEVELOPMENT BASED DISTRICT.
OKAY? SO THERE'S TWO BASE DISTRICTS.
THERE'S SIDE BY SIDE FOR THE MOST PART, BUT FOUR, UM, A FOUR OR FIVE BLOCK AREA, UM, SORT OF IN THE CENTER OF TOWN, UM, THAT THERE'S SOME OVERLAP.
AND SO IN THAT INSTANCE, WHAT WE WOULD SUGGEST BE DONE, REMEMBER BY OVERLAP, I MEAN THERE'S TWO BASE DISTRICTS, LOCAL HISTORIC OUT HERE KIND OF ON THE ISUS, CLOSE TO THE WATER REDEVELOPMENT, KIND OF A FEW BLOCKS IN, OKAY? BUT THEY OVERLAP ONE ANOTHER IN THE TRENT WOODS AREA.
WE ARE GOING TO NEED TO MAINTAIN AN OVERLAY, A REDEVELOPMENT OVERLAY FOR THOSE FIVE OR SIX BLOCKS.
WHY DO WE HAVE TO DO THAT? BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE MORE THAN ONE BASE ZONING DISTRICT.
OKAY? SO WE DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF COMPLEXITY FOR A FOUR OR FIVE BLOCK AREA, BUT THIS IS A FAR CRY FROM THE COMPLEXITY THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH WHAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH TED.
A AND THAT'S BECAUSE WE DON'T CONTROL THOSE BOUNDARIES AS WELL FOR THE RDC VISIT, RIGHT? THE, THESE ARE STATE LINES.
THE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT IS A STATE LINE, UM, OR THE STATE CONTROLS THOSE BOUNDARIES.
UH, SAME WITH THE, UH, REDEVELOPMENT, UH, OVERLAY BOUNDARY.
THOSE ARE CONTROLLED BY SEPARATE ENTITY.
UM, AND WE'RE WORKING WITHIN THOSE CONSTRUCTS.
I I THOUGHT WE CONTROLLED THE REDEVELOPMENT BOUNDARY.
[01:35:01]
IT WAS BASED OFF THE C AND I PLAN, BUT WE ADOPTED THAT.WE CAN MOVE THAT, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.
I JUST THINK, I THINK BEFORE YOU GO DOWN THAT ROAD OF HAVING THAT COMPLEXITY, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE FULLY VET THAT OPPORTUNITY IN CASE WE NEED TO MOVE UP A BOUNDARY.
OKAY? BECAUSE I KNOW WE ADOPTED THE BOUNDARY GUIDELINES FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION.
WE, WE WILL MAKE SURE, WE'LL CHECK INTO THAT AND MAKE SURE, REPORT BACK ON, ON WHAT WE FIND, IF YOU GUYS ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS NOTION.
WE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE CONDITIONAL ZONING DISTRICTS.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS, KIND OF REPLACING THE PUT, UM, WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE SIMPLIFICATION THAT WE'D LIKE TO DO WITH RESPECT TO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE OVERLAYS AND BASE ZONING DISTRICTS.
UM, AND SOME OF THE CONVERSIONS THAT WE'RE SUGGESTING BE DONE, UM, TO PICK UP WHAT IS CURRENTLY A, A ZONING DISTRICT, KIND OF A STANDARD AND JUST MAKING THAT GENERALLY APPLICABLE, RIGHT? CITYWIDE.
UM, THOSE ARE THE, THE, THE, THE BASICS OF THE, THE ZONING KIND OF ASPECT.
TALKED ABOUT PROCEDURAL CHANGES.
TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ZONING DISTRICTS.
I WANTED TO JUST TAKE A SECOND.
UM, IS EVERYBODY OKAY TO GO FOR ANOTHER FIVE, 10 MINUTES? I KNOW THIS IS NOT EDGE OF THE SEAT STUFF, BUT WE SURELY DO APPRECIATE Y'ALL'S ATTENTION AND THOUGHTS.
UM, I'D LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS THAT WE'RE SUGGESTING EXPLORING YOUR QUESTION BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE OVERLAYS, HAVE THEY BECOME OBSOLETE? THEY WERE NEVER USEFUL FOR WHAT BROUGHT US TO THIS POINT.
WERE THEY USEFUL AT SOME POINT? NEVER USEFUL BAD PLANNING.
I, I SUSPECT IT WAS DONE IN THIS WAY WHERE WE PUT OVERLAY AFTER OVERLAY AFTER OVERLAY BECAUSE IT WAS A SIMPLER WAY TO GET SOME STANDARDS ADOPTED AND APPROVED THAN TO GO THROUGH AND COMPREHENSIVELY DO WHAT HE'S DESCRIBING.
UM, I JUST, I LOST MY LI THOUGHT THERE.
UM, IT MIGHT COME BACK TO ME AND I'LL THOUGHT BETTER, MORE CONVENIENT, BUT NOT NECESSARILY MORE DESIRABLE.
UH, BECAUSE AT THE OUTSET, KIND OF ON THE BACK END LOOKING IN THE REAR VIEW MIRROR, WE ARE NOW AT A PLACE WHERE WE HAVE MULTIPLE OVERLAY DISTRICTS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY CONFLICT WITH ONE ANOTHER.
AND IT'S VERY HARD TO EXPLAIN HOW TO DO DEVELOPMENT IN NEW BERN BECAUSE WE'VE TAKEN THE EASY WAY OUT FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.
WE'RE NOW FACED WITH THIS NEED TO GO BACK AND KIND OF COMPREHENSIVELY RETHINK HOW WE ARE APPLYING THE STANDARDS AGAIN, NOT CHANGING THE STANDARDS, JUST HOW WE'RE APPLYING THEM.
YEAH, AND BACK TO THAT I WAS GONNA GO, I DON'T THINK ANY OF OUR OVERLAY STANDARDS ARE OBSOLETE.
SOME OF THEM ARE REALLY, REALLY GREAT.
THERE'S JUST A MUCH SIMPLER WAY TO PACKAGE THEM AND APPLY 'EM THAN LAYERING AND LAYERING AND LAYERING.
THEY ARE SO MUCH EASIER TO UNDERSTAND AND MORE EFFECTIVE WHEN EMBEDDED IN THAT BASE DISTRICT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
AND HE DESCRIBED THAT ONE AREA WHERE YOU MAY HAVE A CHALLENGE, UM, AND WE ALREADY SEE BOUNDARY AND HISTORIC AREA BOUNDARY MAY BE MORE FLEXIBLE.
UM, WE HAD COURTNEY DO SOME RESEARCH ON THAT AND IN WHAT SHE HAD FOUND, WE DIDN'T THINK WE'D BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
BUT WE'RE GOING TO RE-LOOK AT THAT I THINK BASED ON SOME COMMENTS TODAY.
UM, BECAUSE USUALLY YES, THE BODY THAT DRAWS THE LINE IS ABLE TO REDRAW THE LINE.
AND IF WE CAN DO THAT, 'CAUSE THERE IS A VERY ODD, UM, KIND OF STRANGE IDEOLOGIES NOT MATCHING BETWEEN WHERE THERE IS A HISTORIC AREA AND A REDEVELOPMENT AREA OF TWO VERY, VERY DIFFERENT GOALS.
AND MAYBE WE NEED TO REALLY LOOK AT THAT AREA AND FIGURE OUT WHAT'S BETTER SUITED FOR WHAT, WHERE, WHERE POSSIBLE.
AND SO, BUT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION, OUR OVERLAYS ARE NOT OBSOLETE.
THEY'RE JUST REALLY DESIGNED IN AN ANTIQUATED WAY TO EFFECTIVELY ENFORCE THEM.
AND WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF, LOT OF GOOD STANDARDS THAT ARE JUST IN PLANS AND NOT IN ORDINANCES.
AND THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY, AND WE'VE ALREADY STARTED DOING THIS, EXTRACTING SOME OF THE POLICIES THAT HAVE GONE INTO ADOPTED PLANS BUT HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY BEEN ENFORCEABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT, THEY WERE NOT ADOPTED.
TYPICALLY WHEN YOU ADOPT A PLAN, THEN YOU'LL PUT A STATEMENT IN YOUR ORDINANCE THAT SAYS, WE HEREBY BY THIS STATE WANT TO ENFORCE THE POLICIES OF THIS PLAN AND IT BECOMES LAW.
AND THAT STEP WAS MISSED HERE.
SO WHERE WE HAVE APPLICABLE POLICIES IN OUR MANY, MANY, MANY ADOPTED PLANS, WE'RE USING THOSE TOO.
WE TRULY ARE NOT, HAVE NOT BEEN AT A POINT WHERE WE'VE HAD TO REALLY INNOVATE MUCH.
WE'RE JUST REPACKAGING STILL VERY MUCH AT THIS POINT.
SO TAKING A LITTLE FROM HERE, THE, THE BEST OF ALL THAT THINKING AND GETTING IT IN HERE
[01:40:01]
WHERE IT'S ENFORCEABLE.SO, WHICH IS KIND OF EXCITING, YOU NERD OUT ABOUT THESE THINGS LIKE ME, WHICH I CAN TELL
WE'LL BE EASIER AND WE'LL SAVE A LOT OF TIME IF DONE WELL OR I WOULDN'T BE UP HERE ASKING US TO CONSIDER IT BECAUSE I KNOW THIS IS A LOT OF WORK AND IT IS VERY CONFUSING AND I WOULD INVITE ANYBODY TO COME SPEND SOME TIME WITH ME IF THERE'S QUESTIONS ON ANY OF THIS BECAUSE I DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY.
AND SOME OF IT CAN STILL BE CONFUSING AND I'M HAPPY TO TAKE THAT TIME FOR YOU OR, OR ANYONE YOU KNOW THAT'S CONCERNED WITH THIS TO COME, COME TALK TO ME.
I WOULD INVITE YOU TO DO THAT SHAMELESS PLUG TO COME VISIT ME AT DEVELOPMENT SERVICE.
UM, MR. RUE, BEFORE YOU, UM, HAVE A SEAT.
UM, I'LL ADDRESS THIS QUESTION TO BOTH OF YOU.
NOW, WHEN IT COMES TO THE FIVE POINTS REDEVELOPMENT OVERLAY, I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEP INTO THE WEEDS Y'ALL HAVE GOTTEN INTO THIS, BUT AT WHAT POINT WILL, YOU'RE SAYING HERE A PORTION OF IT WILL BE RETAINED, OKAY.
UM, WHERE IT OVERLAPS INTO THE HISTORICAL BASED DISTRICT? MM-HMM.
IT'S, IT IS THE OTHER SIDE OF BROAD STREET.
ARE YOU GONNA IT'S AROUND, AROUND TRENT COURT.
SO, OKAY, SO HERE'S WHERE WE THOUGHT WE WERE AT WITH THESE TWO AREAS WHERE THE HISTORIC AREA AND THE RDC OVERLAPS, OKAY? ONE HAD TO BECOME A BASE DISTRICT AND ONE HAD TO STAY IN OVERLAY.
IF WE CANNOT RESOLVE CHANGING THOSE BOUNDARIES BECAUSE THE ZONING IS GOING TO MATCH THE BOUNDARIES, THE PROBLEM BEING THERE WAS THAT AREA, WHICH IS SOMEWHERE DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LOOK BETWEEN FOUR AND SIX BLOCKS OF, WELL, THEY'RE BOTH.
AND LIKE I SAID, THE, WE'VE GOT TO DO SOME, WE'LL MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION ON HOW TO BEST ACCOMMODATE THAT.
UH, MAYBE THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT ARE VERY CLEARLY OBVIOUSLY BELONG HISTORIC AND THERE MIGHT BE SOME AREAS THAT VERY CLEARLY BELONG IN RDC.
THEY HAVE DIFFERENT BENEFITS AND DIFFERENT REGULATIONS.
SO, SO THAT WILL BE BROKEN UP MORE DETAIL.
WE ARE NOT TRYING TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM EITHER, THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING THROUGH.
IT WAS, I ASKED CHAD TO BRING IT UP FOR FULL TRANSPARENCY.
IT'S AN AREA WHERE IT'S A LITTLE WONKY AND WE CAN'T PROPOSE TAKING AN OVERLAY AWAY ALTOGETHER.
SO WE'LL HAVE THOSE TWO OTHER, WE CAN'T GET RID OF THE FLOOD EITHER, BUT THIS IS AN AREA WE'LL HAVE TO FIND A RESOLUTION.
UM, IF THEY CAN BE IN ONE OR THE OTHER, WHAT'S APPROPRIATE OR IF THEY HAVE TO STAY THERE, HOW WE BEST MARRY THAT AREA.
TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN ADJUST THESE BOUNDARIES SO THAT THERE IS NOT LAND THAT'S DETERMINED IS IN BOTH STRONGLY ADVOCATE FOR THAT, THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC.
UH, THAT SITS WELL WITH OUR NOTION OF SIMPLIFICATION AND, AND MAKING THINGS EASIER TO UNDERSTAND.
WE AT THIS POINT, UP TO, YOU KNOW, FIVE MINUTES AGO WE'RE THINKING THAT THERE WASN'T MUCH APPETITE FOR CHANGING SOME OF THOSE BOUNDARIES.
IF THERE IS A WILLINGNESS AND ABILITY TO CHANGE THOSE BOUNDARIES, WE'RE, WE'RE CHEERLEADING FOR THAT.
WE THINK THAT'S A, THE BEST SOLUTION.
UM, AND WE'LL GO BACK AND EXPLORE THAT AND, AND COME BACK WITH SOME MORE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THAT MIGHT BEST BE ACCOMPLISHED.
UM, GIVEN, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THAT PROPERTY MAY BE LIKE JUST SAID, BETTER SUITED FOR INCLUSION IN THE, THE HISTORIC AREA, WHILE OTHER PARTS MIGHT BE BETTER SUITED FOR CONCLUSION IN OUR, IN THE, IN AN RDC DESIGNATION.
SO, WE'LL, WE'LL KEEP LOOKING AT THAT.
I THINK THE, THE QUICK ANSWER IS WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT YOU GUYS WERE OKAY IF WE HAD MADE SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO THOSE BOUNDARIES.
IF WE CAN MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO THOSE BOUNDARIES, THAT'S GREAT AND WE'LL DO THAT BASED ON WHAT'S ON THE GROUND OUT THERE TODAY IN PURSUIT OF SIMPLIFICATION AND NOT CREATING PROBLEMS FOR ANYBODY.
IF WE'RE NOT ABLE TO DO THAT, THEN WE'LL FIND A DIFFERENT SOLUTION.
LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION.
IT MAY BE A STUPID QUESTION, BUT TO ME NO QUESTION IS A STUPID QUESTION.
HOW IS THAT GONNA AFFECT THE DISTRICTS WHEN IT COMES TO, I KNOW THIS IS GOING FAR OUT THERE, BUT CHANGE THE DISTRICTS WHEN IT COMES TO OUR DISTRICTS OF HOW WE PER SE VOTE IN THE CITY.
WE NOT, IS THAT GONNA CHANGE? NO, THAT WON'T CHANGE THE DISTRICT BOUNDARIES.
AND FRANKLY, THE, THE BOUNDARY THAT IS EASY TO CHANGE IS THE ONE THAT YOU CONTROL.
UM, THE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT BOUNDARY ISN'T SO EASILY CONTROLLED.
AND SO TO BE, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE IS ADJUSTING THE RDC BOUNDARY.
NOW THAT MIGHT BE AMENABLE AND IT MIGHT BE MORE DIFFICULT BASED ON WHAT WE FIND WHEN WE START LOOKING AT THAT PROPERTY.
IF THE RDC HAS MADE INVESTMENTS IN THAT AREA, IF THEY'RE A LANDOWNER IN THAT AREA, IT MIGHT BE SIMPLIFIED.
IF THEY'RE NOT, THEN IT MIGHT BE MORE COMPLICATED TO MOVE THE RDC.
WE HAVE TO EXPLORE THAT A LITTLE BIT.
[01:45:01]
BOUNDARY IS NOT AN EASY BOUNDARY TO CHANGE.THAT DOES REQUIRE A LITTLE BIT MORE INVOLVEMENT ON THE PART OF OTHERS.
SO, YOU KNOW, TO THE EXTENT THAT THE RDC BOUNDARY CAN BE MOVED TO FOLLOW THE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT BOUNDARY, THAT WOULD BE AN EASIER OUTCOME FOR US.
PROVIDED THAT DOESN'T RESULT IN SOME KIND OF NEGATIVE EXTERNALITY OR SOME KIND OF UNDESIRABLE SITUATION WITH RESPECT TO THAT LAND.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE JUST HAVE TO EXPLORE.
WE HAVEN'T LOOKED INTO THAT YET.
AND I'M SORRY, THIS IS SO COMPLICATED.
I KNOW THAT IT IS A LOT, BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE SORT OF UNWINDING THE LAST 30 OR 40 YEARS OF, OF, OF ALL OF THESE KINDS OF LAYERED APPROACHES TO, TO REGULATION IN PURSUIT OF SOMETHING THAT'S SIMPLER.
OKAY? UH, IF THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ZONING DISTRICTS, I'LL TALK JUST FOR A SECOND ABOUT A COUPLE SETS OF DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS THAT WE'D LIKE YOUR INPUT ON.
THE FIRST ONE IS DESIGN STANDARDS.
OKAY? AND DESIGN STANDARDS ARE REGULATIONS THAT WE APPLY TO MULTIFAMILY, TO MIXED USE TO NON-RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
WHEN I SAY DESIGN STANDARDS, I'M TALKING ABOUT ESSENTIALLY ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS.
OKAY? THE AMOUNT OF GLAZING, HOW CUSTOMER ENTRANCES ARE HANDLED, WHETHER OR NOT BUILDINGS HAVE MASS IN CONTROL OR NOT, UM, PROVISIONS FOR EXTERIOR MATERIALS.
THESE ARE NOT USE BASED STANDARDS, THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY HEIGHT BASED STANDARDS.
THEY DEAL WITH THE APPEARANCE OF THE STRUCTURE OR THE APPEARANCE OF THE SITE.
NOW, SOME COMMUNITIES VERY MUCH WANT THOSE KINDS OF STANDARDS.
CERTAINLY YOUR LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT TURNS ON THOSE KINDS OF STANDARDS.
HOW, WHAT DOES THE BUILDING LOOK LIKE? RIGHT? THESE DESIGN STANDARDS WOULD BE THINGS THAT WE WOULD APPLY TO MIXED USE, MULTIFAMILY AND NON-RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
AND THE QUESTION THAT I HAVE FOR YOU GUYS IS, ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH THE APPEARANCE OF DEVELOPMENT IN NEWBURGH? DO WE NOT NEED THESE KINDS OF DESIGN STANDARDS? DO THEY MAKE FOR ATTRACTIVE BUILDINGS? SURE THEY DO.
DO THEY RAISE THE COST OF DEVELOPMENT? SURE THEY DO.
IN LIGHT OF THAT, DO YOU GUYS HAVE A SENSE ABOUT THE RELATIVE IMPORTANCE OF DESIGN STANDARDS FOR MIXED USE, MULTI-FAMILY OR NON-RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT? FOR ME, I THINK IT'S HARD TO PROVIDE YOU WITH SOME DEFINITIVE DIRECTION MM-HMM,
SO WE COULD PROVIDE SOME EXAMPLES.
I I I DON'T WANNA SPEND YOUR MONEY WRITING STANDARDS THAT YOU KNOW, YOU HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO SEE AND THAT YOU SAY, AH, WELL I I DON'T WANT THIS.
AND THEN I'VE SPENT YOUR MONEY.
I THINK THE RIGHT WAY FOR US TO GO IS TO GIVE YOU SOME EXAMPLES FROM SOME OTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, UM, THAT MAYBE AREN'T IDENTICAL TO, TO NEW BERN, BUT MIGHT HAVE SOME SIMILAR KINDS OF PROVISIONS FOR YOU TO LOOK AT AND SORT OF DECIDE FOR YOURSELVES, EH, I THINK WE NEED THIS, OR EH, I DON'T THINK WE NEED THIS.
UM, WE ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND Y'ALL'S APPETITE FOR DESIGN STANDARDS GENERALLY.
IS THIS, IS IT SOMETHING THAT THE TIME HAS COME FOR NEW BERN? OR ARE YOU FINDING THAT THE DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST FIVE, 10 YEARS IS, UH, YOU KNOW, SU THE APPEARANCE IS SUITABLE, IT'S JUST FINE.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T NEED THESE STANDARDS.
I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION, WHICH IS, WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO SAY WHETHER WE NEED IT OR NOT? UM, I WOULD SAY WE CAN PROVIDE YOU SOME EXAMPLES.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF FOLKS HAVE A GENERAL SENSE ABOUT IF, IF YOU'RE HAPPY WITH THE APPEARANCE OF MIXED USE MULTIFAMILY AND NON-RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT TODAY, THEN YOU PROBABLY DON'T NEED DESIGN STANDARDS.
BUT I WANTED TO ASK THAT QUESTION.
UM, WE, WE DID TALK ABOUT RAISING THE QUOTE UNQUOTE RAISING THE BAR FOR DEVELOPMENT QUALITY DESIGN STANDARDS ARE ONE OF THE WAYS THAT WE DO THAT.
DO THEY MAKE FOR A MORE BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY SOMETIMES? DO THEY RAISE THE COST OF DEVELOPMENT? ABSOLUTELY.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, IN LIGHT OF THAT, DO YOU, WOULD YOU LIKE US TO CONTINUE TO EXPLORE THIS OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK, EH, PROBABLY DON'T NEED IT? JESSICA, WHAT
[01:50:01]
DO YOU THINK? WHAT'S YOUR OPINION? GREAT QUESTION.I ASKED CHAD TO ASK YOU ALL THIS QUESTION BECAUSE IN MY OPINION, I THINK THE, THE LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT AESTHETICS THAT WE GET HERE IS NOT TERRIBLE.
I CERTAINLY AM NOT GETTING THE LEVEL OF PHONE CALLS THAT I GOT.
UM, IN PREVIOUS PLACES I'VE WORKED LIKE, OH GOD, THE DOLLAR GENERAL LOOKS HORRIBLE.
YOU'VE RUINED THE WHOLE TOWN BY ALLOWING THAT WHICH LED TO OVERKILL REGULATIONS OF, YOU KNOW, MAKING CONVENIENCE STORES LOOK LIKE BEACH COTTAGES RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD.
I DON'T FEEL WE HAVE A PRESSING PROBLEM.
HOWEVER, UM, EVERYONE'S OPINIONS ON THIS ARE DIFFERENT.
WE HAVE CERTAIN AREAS OF TOWN, WE HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF CONTROL OVER HOW IT LOOKS AND WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO THAT.
WE CAN NO LONGER REGULATE THE AESTHETICS OF A SINGLE FAMILY, DUPLEX, TRIPLEX, OR QUADRUPLEX AS THE STATE TOOK THAT AWAY FROM US.
THEY STILL ALLOW US TO DICTATE HOW WE WANT MULTI-FAMILY BUILDINGS TO LOOK AND COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS TO LOOK.
HOWEVER, WE HAVE NOT HISTORICALLY DONE THAT.
AND THERE IS A SOMEWHAT HEAVY COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
AND I WAS LOOKING FOR A LITTLE FEEDBACK ON BALANCING IF WE THOUGHT IT WAS A PROBLEM ENOUGH TO PASS THAT COST OFF ALONG TO OUR DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY WHO BUILD APARTMENTS IN COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.
I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE MOST RECENT ONES THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT FROM A MULTIFAMILY PERSPECTIVE, YOU'VE GOT, I THINK IT'S PROXIMITY THAT'S OUT, UM, NEAR THE HIGH SCHOOL.
YOU'VE GOT, I DON'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT, BUT IT'S BEHIND ALDI, THAT MULTIFAMILY THAT'S THERE.
UM, THESE ARE NOT CHEAP LOOKING TYPE FACADES.
NOW AN EXAMPLE I'LL, I'LL SHARE WITH YOU ALL, AND SOME OF YOU'LL REMEMBER THE SOMEWHAT CONTROVERSY OVER SELL OF FORD.
SELL OF FORD HAD A BRICK FACADE ON THE FRONT AND THEY WANTED TO GO TO THE NEW MODEL THAT FORD USES NOW, WHICH IS THE IZED ALUMINUM PANELS BASED OFF OF OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE.
OR IT COULD BE OVERLAY DISTRICT FOR ALL I KNOW.
UM, IT DID NOT RE IT DID NOT ALLOW FOR METAL SIDING AND THAT'S WHAT IT WAS CONSIDERED.
NOW THEY COULD HAVE PUT OSB PLYWOOD UP THERE AND LEFT THAT BECAUSE WOOD WAS IN OUR ORDINANCE THAT WAS ALLOWABLE.
SO WE HAD TO CHANGE THAT TO ALLOW THAT TO BE USED.
AND THAT'S MY CONCERN WHEN YOU START GETTING INTO DESIGN STANDARDS BECAUSE DESIGNS CHANGE WHAT'S POPULAR TODAY.
IT'S NOT GONNA BE POPULAR 10 YEARS FROM NOW.
AND IF YOU START PUTTING STANDARDS IN NEW BERN IS A DESIRABLE PLACE FOR ALL OF US.
WE ALL MOSTLY LIVE HERE AND WE CHOSE TO DO SO.
UM, NEW BERN IS NOT BUSTING AT THE SEAMS WITH DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND IF YOU ADD MORE REGULATIONS AND MORE COST POTENTIAL DEVELOPER THAT HAS INTEREST IN COMING TO ER, IT'S JUST GONNA GO SOMEWHERE AS NOT AS DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH.
AND CARRIE, NORTH CAROLINA IS A GREAT EXAMPLE.
CARRIE WILL TELL YOU, UM, A NATIONAL BRAND, WHAT COLOR YOU CAN HAVE ON YOUR SIGN OUT FRONT.
BUT CARRIE IS SO DESIRABLE THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO SACRIFICE THAT.
THAT'S WHY MCDONALD'S THERE HAS A TEAL SIGN VERSUS A RED AND GOLD ARCH SIGN.
SO MY, MY ANSWER WOULD BE NO FOR DESIGN SCANS, THIS IS ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN COME REVISIT.
AND I, UH, MY FIRST INCLINATION WHEN IT CAME UP WAS I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED THAT.
AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE WERE POSING THE QUESTION TODAY.
AND IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS NOT AN AREA WE NEED TO FOCUS OUR, PUT OUR MOST HEAVY FOCUS ON.
I THINK THAT DIRECTION WORKS RIGHT NOW.
HOW MUCH MORE? HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU HAVE? UM, HOW ABOUT ANOTHER FIVE MINUTES AND THEN I'LL BE DONE.
UM, HOPEFULLY LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT SIGNAGE.
WE'RE WE, WE ARE GOING TO GO INTO YOUR SIGN REGULATIONS AND MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS BECAUSE WE HAVE TO FOR FEDERAL REASONS.
OKAY? SO THERE'S SOME FEDERAL LAW THAT CONTROLS SOME THINGS THAT NEED TO BE FIXED IN YOUR SIGN RULES.
SO THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU IF YOU WISH TO BEGIN TO EXPLORE SOME CHANGES TO YOUR SIGN RULES.
AND SO THOSE CHANGES MIGHT TAKE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING FORMS. ONE, YOU MIGHT DECIDE THAT YOU'RE JUST FINE WITH SIGN SIZES THAT ARE ALLOWED TODAY AND THE SIGN TYPOLOGIES THAT YOU HAVE THAT WE'RE GOOD.
PUT SOME PICTURES IN THERE AND THEN YOU'RE GOOD.
OR YOU MIGHT DECIDE WE HAVE TOO MUCH SIGNAGE.
THERE'S SIGN POLLUTION IN NEWBURGH.
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I'M SAYING THAT MIGHT BE YOUR FEELING.UM, AND IN THAT INSTANCE YOU MIGHT SAY, WE WANT YOU TO GO IN AND EXPLORE WAYS TO BETTER CONTROL SIGN POLLUTION.
OR YOU MIGHT SAY, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SIGNAGE.
I CAN'T FIND ANY DEVELOPMENTS HERE IN NEW BERN.
WE WOULD BE OKAY IF YOU ALLOWED LARGER SIGNS.
SO OF THOSE THREE, WHERE WOULD YOU GUYS SAY APPROXIMATELY THAT YOU ARE? AND I, I REALIZE IT'S A, IT'S AN OPEN-ENDED QUESTION, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF, OF THE ALDERMAN ABOUT WHERE ARE WE WITH SIGNS? ARE WE GOOD? DO WE NEED TO MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS? ARE YOU HEARING FROM YOUR CONSTITUENTS THAT THERE'S TOO MUCH SIGNAGE? NOT ENOUGH SIGNAGE ABOUT THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF SIGNAGE.
WE NEED TO MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS.
UM, AND ADJUSTMENTS FOR, UM, SMALLER SIGNS, LOWER SIGNS, FEWER SIGNS, LARGER SIGNS, TALLER SIGNS, MORE SIGNS.
WELL WE NEED TO LOOK AT, I THINK, UM, HOW STORE DISPLAYS, UM, THE LETTERING ALL OVER THE WINDOW.
THAT'S, THAT'S THOSE TWO THINGS NEED TO BE BUILT FOR.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE COULD EXPLORE, UM, ASSUMING YOU GUYS ARE COMFORTABLE WITH IT, UM, ARE LIMITATIONS ON BILLBOARDS.
UM, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE BILLBOARDS OR AT LEAST NEW ONES.
UM, IF YOU DON'T WANT THEM, UM, THERE'S NOT MUCH YOU CAN DO ABOUT THE BILLBOARDS THAT EXIST OR YOU CAN JUST LET THEM BE.
I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF BILLBOARDS AND I'M ESPECIALLY NOT A FAN OF BILLBOARDS IN THE, IN NEW BERN THAT ARE THE ELECTRONIC IN NATURE, YOU KNOW? SO AT A MINIMUM I THINK WE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF WE ALLOW 'EM NOW, BUT WE SHOULDN'T ALLOW 'EM IF WE DO.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT Y'ALL THINK THEY BIG, LIKE YOU SEE ON MY GOING TOWARDS IN JAMES CITY AREA, THE BIG ELECTRONIC ONES THAT SAID VOTE FOR MAYOR ODOM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON THEM.
A ALONG THOSE LINES, ANOTHER OPTION FOR YOU TO CONSIDER FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, UM, ARE STANDARDS THAT ENCOURAGE WHAT I CALL MONUMENT SIGNS OR GROUND-BASED SIGNS, SIGNS THAT ARE NOT ON POLES, THEY'RE LOWER.
UM, THEY'RE NOT ON A POLE, THEY'RE ON THE GROUND.
UM, THEY COULD STILL BE 5, 6, 7, 8 FEET TALL, YOU KNOW, OR EVEN TALLER, BUT THEY'RE JUST NOT ON POLES.
UM, RIGHT NOW YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY LIMITATIONS ON POLE SIGNS.
YOU COULD HAVE SOME, IF YOU CHOSE TO INCLUDE THOSE, WE COULD EXPLORE THAT AND COME BACK TO YOU WITH SOMETHING OR WE CAN JUST GO FORWARD WITH THE, THE FREESTANDING SIGN APPROACH THAT YOU'VE GOT TODAY.
AND IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO A POLE SIGN, THAT'S FINE.
IF THEY WANT TO DO A GROUND SIGN, THAT'S FINE TOO.
I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU HAVE DIFFERENT BUSINESSES TO GO AROUND OUT THROUGH THE CITY AND PUT AND PLACE THEM THERE AND THEN RETURN TO PICK 'EM UP.
THE BAR CONTINUALLY MOVES WITH PREVIOUS STAFF.
UM, I CAN TELL YOU THERE WAS A BUSINESS ON NEWS BOULEVARD THAT HAD A BRAND CHANGE.
UH, THEY HAD A PYLON SIGN WHEN THEY WENT TO GO CHANGE THE BRAND OF THE SIGN AND PUT A NEW FACE THAT WAS DECLINED AND THE WHOLE POLE SIGN HAD TO COME DOWN.
AND THAT WAS BACK IN THE LATE NINETIES.
AND THEN ANOTHER EXAMPLE, YOU CAN GO LOOK AT THE NEW SEVEN BREW THAT WAS JUST PUT IN ON MLK AND THEIR PYLON SIGN IS ALMOST WITHIN FEET OF ANOTHER SIGN THAT'S NEXT TO IT THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT UNTIL YOU GET DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF IT.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS REGULATION COULD HAVE FIXED THAT, BUT I MEAN, I WOULD'VE MOVED IT TO THE OPPOSITE CORNER OF THE LOT IF IT WERE ME.
BUT FOR THAT TO BE ALLOWED AND THEN WE DON'T ALLOW ANOTHER SIGN THAT HAS BEEN THERE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GRANDFATHERED IN BECAUSE THEY WERE CHANGING THE FACE OF IT.
IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.
SO I THINK IF WE GET A SET OF STANDARDS THAT'S REASONABLE, WE ALL KNOW THE RULES OF THE GAME AND THE RULES AREN'T CONSTANTLY CHANGING AND PEOPLE CAN ADAPT TO THAT.
AND I'LL GO BACK TO THE, THE WHOLE CRACKER BARREL FIASCO THAT EVERYBODY BLAMES THE CITY OF NEW BERN, THAT WE DON'T HAVE A CRACKER BARREL.
'CAUSE WE DIDN'T ALLOW THEIR SIGN, WHICH IS NOT TRUE STAFF AT THE TIME, WHICH IS BEFORE I GOT ON THE GOVERNING BOARD STAFF AT THE TIME HAD WORKED THROUGH THAT PROCESS AND THEY WERE SATISFIED WITH IT.
THE REASON CRACKER BARREL'S NOT HERE IS NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR SIGN, IT'S BECAUSE THEY DECIDED TO RELOCATE THE HOLDING POND TO THE BACK OF THE MALL AND INCREASED THE COST OF THE LOT.
BUT IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AND YOU RIDE UP AND DOWN THE COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR OF
[02:00:01]
MLK, YOU'LL SEE A TARGET SIGN THAT OUR TREE REGULATIONS REQUIRE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF TREES THAT HAVE GROWN UP SO MUCH YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYMORE.SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT I'M HOPING WILL BE ADDRESSED THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROCESS.
THOSE ARE OUR QUESTIONS AND I SURELY DO APPRECIATE Y'ALL'S, UH, Y'ALL'S TIME.
I WOULD SAY NEXT STEPS FOR US, WE'RE CONTINUING TO REVIEW AND REVISE AND UPDATE THIS ATED OUTLINE.
WE'LL DO SO FOR ANOTHER WEEK OR SO.
UH, WE'LL BEGIN TO PREPARE SOME OF THE PUBLIC INFORMATION MATERIAL THAT WE NEED TO PREPARE IN ANTICIPATION OF THESE, UM, ROUND TABLE MEETINGS THAT WE'RE ANTICIPATING CONDUCTING IN, UH, IN, IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER.
WE DO ANTICIPATE CITIZEN GROUPS, THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY, THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNITY, AND PROBABLY SOME OTHER GROUPS.
UH, SO WE'LL CAST THE NET BROADLY, UH, AND CREATE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO SHARE WITH US HOW THEY FEEL AND WHAT THEY THINK.
UM, ULTIMATELY WE'LL BE BACK BEFORE YOU WITH ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WE HEARD AND HOW THAT IMPACTS THIS ANNOTATED OUTLINE.
AND WE'LL DO THAT MATERIAL FOR THOSE STEPS BEFORE WE START THE DRAFTING PROCESS SO THAT WE'RE JUDICIOUS, UH, ON YOUR RESOURCES IN TERMS OF, OF THE DRAFTING PART.
UM, IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, I'LL BE GLAD TO ATTEMPT TO ANSWER ONE QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU.
JUST JUMPING BACK TO PAGE ONE UNDER THE, THE NEW PROCEDURES.
I IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WILL BE COMING BACK TO TALK TO US ABOUT OR, UM, WE, WE WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU INCORPORATE AN ANNEXATION PROCEDURE IN YOUR LUO.
THE RULES FOR ANNEXATION ARE SET DOWN FOR US BY THE STATE.
WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY IN TERMS OF, UM, HOW THAT PROCESS IS FUNCTION, HOW IT FUNCTIONS AND WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE TO.
DO YOU HAVE THE ULTIMATE DECISION ABOUT WHETHER TO ANNEX OR NOT.
AND IF YOU DO CHOOSE TO ANNEX WHEN THOSE ARE TWO DECISION POINTS THAT YOU GET TO MAKE, THAT WON'T CHANGE.
WE WOULD, I, I LISTED ANNEXATION BECAUSE IT'S A PROCEDURE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ON THE BOOKS TODAY, THOUGH YOU DO IT, UH, IT'S JUST NOT CODIFIED.
WE WOULD SUGGEST INCORPORATING IT HERE, FOLLOWING THE STATE LAW, UH, AND INCLUDING THOSE PROVISIONS FOR YOUR, UH, FOR RESIDENTS OR SOON TO BE RESIDENTS.
UM, FOR, FOR FOLKS TO USE THAT, THAT'S THE, THAT THAT'S WHY I WAS IN THERE AND I DIDN'T COVER IT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE STATE, THE, THE PROCEDURE IS SET DOWN FOR US BY THE STATE.
WE DON'T HAVE MUCH CONTROL OVER HOW THAT'S STRUCTURED.
YOU KNOW, IT'S A GO NO GO DECISION FOR YOU.
UH, AND IF YOU CHOOSE TO GO, IT'S A WHEN DO WE GO, UH, DECISION POINT THAT WILL CONTINUE, UH, AND THEN BE EMBEDDED IN THE STANDARDS.
THE REST OF IT IS KIND OF OUT OF OUR CONTROL, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
ANYTHING ELSE? IF NOT, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE.