[00:00:02]
OKAY.[1. OPENING OF MEETING WITH ROLL CALL]
OUR CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR ARE NOT PRESENT.UH, SO WE'LL START THE MEETING WITH ROLL CALL AND THEN PROCEED TO ESTABLISH A FIRST, WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE A QUORUM.
AND SECOND, UH, TO ESTABLISH AN ACTING CHAIR FOR THE MEETING.
SO, UH, THIS IS THE MEETING FOR, UH, THE CONTINUED MEETING FROM FEBRUARY 19TH.
UH, NOW HAPPENING ON FEBRUARY 26TH, 2025.
SO FOR OUR ROLL CALL, JIM MORRISON.
WE HAVE JAMES BIBY TRIP, U MOLLY BALES.
AND ABSENT WE HAVE MARK PARTNER.
SO, UH, WE DO HAVE A QUORUM, SO WE MAY PROCEED WITH, UH, A PROCESS TO SELECT A CHAIR FOR THIS EVENING.
I MOVE, WE APPOINT TIM THOMPSON TO SERVE AS CHAIR THIS EVENING ACTING CHAIR OF THIS EVENING.
IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED THAT TIM THOMPSON ACT AS THE CHAIR FOR THIS PARTICULAR MEETING.
ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
ALL OPPOSED, HEARING NONE, MR. THOMPSON, YOU ARE THE PRESIDING OFFICER FOR THIS EVENING.
[2. ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA]
ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA? UH, MATT, ARE YOU AWARE OF WHETHER WE HAVE AN APPLICANT THAT, UH, THAT WILL NOT BE HERE? UH, NO.DO WE HAVE THE APPLICANT FOR 5 25 3 16 AND THREE 11? UH, 5 25 QUEEN STREET, THREE 16 AVENUE C AND THREE 11 AVENUE C? YEAH.
AND I SEE THAT 4 0 3 EAST FRONT STREET.
UH, A QUESTION TO THE COMMISSIONERS, UH, 4 0 3 EAST FRONT STREET, UH, IS A FAIRLY COMPLEX APPLICATION THAT ALSO, THAT INVOLVES DEMOLITION AS WELL AS, UM, UH, REDEVELOPMENT.
UH, WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO MOVE THAT TO THE END OF THE AGENDA IN ORDER FOR THESE OTHER APPLICATIONS, WHICH I THINK ARE, ARE FAIRLY SMALL, UH, JUST USER FRIENDLY TRYING TO, TRYING TO, UH, PROCESS THE QUICKER ONES FIRST.
MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY, UM, THREE 11 AVENUE C IS, UH, A DEMOLITION AND REDEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.
SO IT MAY NOT BE SO SMALL, OKAY.
BUT PERHAPS YOU COULD MOVE, UH, NEW QUEEN AND AVENUE, UH, THREE 16 C AHEAD OF THE TWO DEMOLITION CASES.
ALL IN FAVOR OF MOVING 5 25 AND 3 5 25 QUEEN STREET AND THREE 16 AVENUE C TO THE, AND 2 0 8.
UH, TO THE TOP OF THE, UM, HEARINGS TONIGHT.
WHO MADE THE MOTION ADD SECONDS TO BLOCK IT? MM-HMM
[Additional Item]
SO OUR FIRST, UM, LET'S SEE, FOR OUR HEARINGS, UH, WE'RE ABOUT TO BEGIN THE HEARINGS TONIGHT FOR COA APPLICATIONS.UM, THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION IS A PUBLIC COMMISSION APPOINTED BY THE CITY OF NEW BERN'S BOARD OF OTTOMAN.
IT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR PRESERVING AND SAFEGUARDING NEW BERN'S, LOCALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICTS, WHICH CONSISTS OF DOWNTOWN AND RIVERSIDE BASED ON US DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, STATE STATUTES, CITY ORDINANCES, AND NEW BERN'S HISTORIC GUIDELINES.
TWO OF THE MAJOR TASKS OF THE HBC INCLUDE APPROVING APPLICATIONS FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND PREVENTING DEMOLITION OF HISTORIC STRUCTURES.
DUE TO NEGLECT, THE HBC HOLDS A QUASI A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING ON AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
THE COMMISSION HEARS SWORN TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, BY PARTIES WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING AND BY OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT EVIDENCE AND ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE APPLICATION.
[00:05:01]
CONSIDER COMMENTS BASED ON PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES, HEARSAY OR PERSONAL OPINION THAT CANNOT BE DIRECTLY RELATED TO SPECIFIC HISTORIC GUIDELINES.LIKEWISE, COMMISSIONER SHALL REFRAIN FROM STATING PERSONAL OPINIONS, PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES, OR HEARSAY DURING A HEARING.
THE COMMISSION'S DECISION ON AN APPLICATION IS BASED SOLELY ON TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT A HEARING THAT DIRECTLY RELATES TO THE HISTORIC GUIDELINES.
SO AT THIS POINT, WE NEED TO SWEAR IN ANYONE WHO INTENDS TO SPEAK OR PROVIDE TESTIMONY TONIGHT RELATED TO A COA APPLICATION ON THIS MEETING'S AGENDA THIS EVENING.
UH, TESTIMONY FOR PUBLIC COMMENT IN GENERAL.
IN GENERAL, WE DON'T NEED TO DO SO.
SO ONCE YOU SWEAR IN, PLEASE ALL SWEAR IN, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND PRINT YOUR NAME AND YOUR, UH, YOUR ADDRESS.
UH, DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, PROVIDE HONEST TESTIMONY AND ANSWERS TO ANY QUESTIONS DIRECTED TO YOU? YES.
PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU SIGN THE SHEET.
DO YOU MAKE A MOTION? DO YOU WANNA MAKE A MOTION? NO, IT MAKES IT EASY WHEN YOUR I CAN TRY.
WE HAD A COUPLE MORE PEOPLE COME IN WHO ARE SPEAKING.
MR. CHAIR, I THINK WE HAVE TWO ADDITIONAL WITNESSES WHO MAY NOT HAVE BEEN SWORN WHO JUST ENTERED, UM, THE TWO GENTLEMEN STANDING AT THE BACK OF THE LINE.
THEY MIGHT NEED TO BE SWORN AS WELL.
GENTLEMEN, LOOKING TO YOU WANNA DO THAT WHILE WE'RE FITTING ON THE SIDE? DO SWEAR? YEAH.
DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, PROVIDE HONEST TESTIMONY AND ANSWERS TO ANY QUESTIONS DIRECTED TO YOU? YES, I DO.
[00:10:55]
UH, BEFORE WE GET TO OUR, OUR FIRST HEARING, WE'VE GOT EVERYONE, UM, SWORN IN AND SIGNED UP.UH, CAN WE BACK UP FOR JUST A MINUTE? UH, GOT OUT OF ORDER A LITTLE BIT HERE.
[4. CONSENT AGENDA]
CONSENT AGENDA FOR TONIGHT, UH, MATT, I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE ANY APPROVAL OF MINUTES, IS THAT CORRECT? UH, YES, THERE ARE, THERE ARE SEVERAL SETS OF MINUTES AND SEVERAL, UM OKAY.ALRIGHT, SO WE'VE GOT, UH, TWO WRITTEN DECISIONS FROM THE NOVEMBER MEETING OF 2024 FOR TWO 12, UH, FRONT, UH, SOUTH FRONT STREET AND TWO 18 P*****K STREET.
AND THEN, UM, LET'S SEE, I'M LOOKING FOR THE, I'M LOOKING FOR THE APPROVED FOR OUR, FOR THE MINUTES.
UH, I SEE IT, UH, FROM, UH, SEPTEMBER REGULAR MEETING, UH, NOVEMBER REGULAR MEETING, AND I THINK THAT'S IT.
UH, ANY, ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, CORRECTIONS TO THOSE? WILL YOU APPROVE IT? SO, UH, MOTION, MOTION TO, UH, APPROVE THESE ITEMS UNDER THE CONSENT AGENDA.
AND THAT INCLUDES, UM, THAT INCLUDES BOTH THE MINUTES AND THE WRITTEN DECISIONS, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT, CORRECT? YES.
ALRIGHT, NOW, UH, WE'RE ABOUT TO, WE'RE ABOUT TO, UH, START OUR FIRST HEARING TONIGHT.
LET ME JUST QUICKLY SUMMARIZE, UH, HOW WE WILL GO ABOUT, UH, DRILLING THE HEARINGS.
THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR WILL PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION THE APPLICANT OR THE REPRESENTATIVE HAS A CHANCE TO, UH, PRESENT ANYTHING ELSE RELATED TO THE APPLICATION.
MAKE ANY COMMENTS, PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING.
IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'VE GOT A LETTER IN THE MAIL TELLING YOU THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAVING A HEARING.
UH, YOU ARE, YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT ANY EVIDENCE RELATED TO THE GUIDELINES AND THE APPLICATION REBUTTAL IS ALLOWED BY THE APPLICANT AND BY PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE AFTER THAT.
OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION AND WILL BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED, UH, BY THE APPLICATION, CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.
AFTER THAT, THE HBC ADMINISTRATOR PRESENTS THE STAFF'S FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE APPLICATION.
THE APPLICANT OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE ANY FINAL COMMENTS ON THE APPLICATION.
AND AT THAT POINT, COMMISSIONERS WILL DISCUSS THE EVIDENCE AND MAY ASK FOR CLARIFICATION FROM ANY APPLICANT OR THE, OR THE REPRESENTATIVE OR PRESENTERS.
THE CHAIRMAN THEN CALLS FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE OR DENY THE APPLICATION WITH STATED FA FINDINGS OF FACT.
THE MOTION IS DISCUSSED BY THE COMMISSION.
THEN THE CHAIR WILL CALL FOR A VOTE ON THE MOTION BY THE COMMISSION.
A COA CAN BE APPROVED, APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS OR DENIED.
ANY QUESTIONS ON HOW WE WILL GENERALLY RUN THE HEARINGS TONIGHT? OKAY.
THEN OUR FIRST HEARING TONIGHT, BASED ON OUR REARRANGED ORDER IS 5 25 QUEEN STREET NEW STREET.
UH, I WAS DOING THESE IN, OR HAVE I MISSED ONE HERE? UH, UH, TWO.
2 0 8 NEW STREET AND MR. CHAIR, UM, AND SEVERAL OF THE BOARD MEMBERS MAY KNOW, BUT THE APPLICATION FOR 2 0 8 NEW STREET HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN.
[5.C. 525 Queen St. – to include removing one door and window; adding one door and window in the Secondary AVC. (Part 1 of 2)]
5 25 QUEEN STREET.DO WE HAVE APPLICANT'S REP, REP REPRESENTATIVES THERE FOR THIS ONE?
[00:15:01]
OKAY.DO REPRESENTATIVES NEED TO BE THERE? I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
DO THEY MR. CHAIR AND MR. WONKA? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
THE BURDEN OF PRODUCING EVIDENCE RESTS ON THE APPLICANT.
UM, SO GENERALLY THE APPLICANTS ARE REQUESTED TO COME SO THAT THEY CAN PRESENT ANY RELEVANT INFORMATION TO YOU ALL.
WHAT YOU MAY CONSIDER DOING, UM, IN LIGHT OF THEIR ABSENCE, AND I THINK THEY WERE ANTICIPATED TO BE HERE TONIGHT, IS TO MOVE TO YOUR NEXT HEARING AND PERHAPS REVISIT, UM, THE APPLICATION FOR 5 25 QUEEN STREET AFTER YOU'VE ADDRESSED ALL THE APPLICANTS WHO ARE PRESENT.
I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S SOUND ADVICE, BUT, UM, MATT, IF I COULD ASK ABOUT STAFF, DO YOU, AND DID, DO YOU LET THE, THE APPLICANTS KNOW THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TO, TO TALK ABOUT THEIR PROJECT? YES, WE ALWAYS DO THAT.
AND THEN, UH, AFTER THE MEETING WAS CONTINUED LAST WEEK, IMMEDIATELY THE NEXT DAY I CONTACTED THE APPLICANT.
UH, HOWEVER, I DO KNOW THE APPLICANT LIVES OUT OF STATE AND MAY BE EXPECTING THEIR, UM, UH, REPRESENTATIVE TO BE HERE WHO MAY HAVE MISSED THE COMMUNICATION SOMEHOW.
SO DO, DO YOU NEED A MOTION TO KIND OF HOLD THAT ONE UNTIL LATER OR JUST KIND OF HOLD IT ON UNTIL, TILL WE SEE WHAT HAPPENS BY THE END OF THE MEETING? UM, WELL I'LL TAKE JAMIE'S SUGGESTION AND WE'LL COME BACK TO THIS ONE.
UM, BEFORE WE, BEFORE WE CONCLUDE ALL OF OUR HEARINGS.
[5.D. 316 Avenue C – to include new 4-foot wood fencing in all AVCs.]
IS THREE 16 AVENUE C.WE HAVE A REPRESENTING NEWS FOR THAT.
IF YOU WANT, IF YOU'LL COME UP FRONT AND, UH, MATT? YEP.
DO YOU WANT TO PRESENT? ALRIGHT.
UH, AN OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION AND MR. CHAIR, I DON'T KNOW IF THE APPLICANT WAS SWORN IN.
I THINK SHE MAY HAVE COME IN A BIT TARDY, SO WE MAY NEED I TARDY.
SO, UH, SINCE THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING, WE SWEAR IN ANYONE WHO IS PROVIDING TESTIMONY, OKAY.
UM, YOU NEED TO SIGN THE SHEET UP THERE AND IF YOU'LL RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, PROVIDE HONEST TESTIMONY AND ANSWERS TO ANY QUESTIONS DIRECTED TO YOU? YES.
ALRIGHT, SO I'LL START WITH THE PRESENTATION.
UM, THIS IS THE, UH, APPLICANT'S APPLICATION.
UH, THIS IS, UH, FOR THREE 16 AVENUE C AND PROPERTY OWNER IS MELANIE MUMFORD.
UH, AND THAT'S WHO'S STANDING BEFORE YOU.
AND SO THE, UH, DESCRIPTION, THE GUIDELINES AND THE MATERIALS ARE OUTLINED THERE, AS WELL AS THE APPLICATION IS SIGNED AND DATED.
SO GONNA MAKE THIS A LITTLE BIT SMALLER.
UH, THIS IS AN AERIAL VIEW THAT SHOWS THE PROPERTY AND SOME OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES.
UM, FOR THIS PROJECT THAT'S ON A CORNER OF, UH, NORTH PASTOR AND AVENUE C.
SO NORTH PASTOR IS ON THE LEFT AND AVENUE C IS ACROSS THE BOTTOM.
THESE ARE SOME PHOTOS, UM, FROM ZILLOW SHOWING THE, UH, THE BACKYARD, WHICH SHOWS, UM, IN THIS, THE TOP VIEW SHOWS, UH, THE, UH, EAST, EAST PROPERTY LINE IN THE BACKGROUND, UH, WHICH IS WHERE, UH, ONE SECTION OF THE FENCING WILL BE.
UH, THIS BOTTOM ONE SHOWS, UH, OBVIOUSLY THE DRIVEWAY AND THE SIDEWALK.
UH, THE, UH, FENCING IS PROPOSED TO GO ALONG THAT FAR EDGE OF THE SIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY.
AND ALONG THE, OF COURSE THE INSIDE, UH, SECTION OF THE SIDEWALK.
UH, AND WE'LL SEE THIS IN PLANNED VIEW, BUT THIS IS, SO YOU HAVE, UM, ACTUAL, UH, UM, EYEBALL VIEW, UM, PERSPECTIVE AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROJECT.
AND THEN THIS ONE, UM, SHOWS THEN THAT THE SPACE BETWEEN, UH, THE APPLICANT'S HOUSE ON THE LEFT AND THEIR NEIGHBORS ON THE RIGHT AND THE FENCE, UH, WILL BE, UH, CONSTRUCTED BACK WHERE THE BUSHES ARE AND END RIGHT ABOUT THE END OF WHERE THE BUSHES ARE OR BEHIND THEM.
UM, UH, SO, UH, THIS PARTICULAR SPACE IN BETWEEN HERE THAT WE SEE IS NOT WHERE A FENCE IS GOING, BUT IT GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF THE PROXIMITY OF THE NEIGHBORS.
UM, THE GARAGE IS AT THE TOP, THE HOUSE IS AT THE BOTTOM.
AND SO THE DRIVEWAY I MENTIONED IS AT THE TOP LEFT HERE, AND THEN IT CURVES, IT GOES OR TURNS AND GOES
[00:20:01]
ALONG THE BACK OF THE SIDEWALK AND THEN, UH, TURNS NEAR THE REAR CORNER OF THE HOUSE.UH, TO REJOIN THE HOUSE THERE, THERE ARE TWO GATES IN THERE, ONE AT THE DRIVEWAY AND ONE AT THE SIDEWALK.
UM, AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, ON THE EAST BOUNDARY, UM, THERE'S ALSO FENCING ON THE, UH, PROPERTY LINE OVER HERE, WHICH THEN TURNS AND REJOINS THE HOUSE IN THE BACK CORNER OF THE HOUSE THERE AS WELL.
SO, AND THERE'S A GATE THERE AND THERE'S A GATE THERE.
UM, SO THEN THE PROPOSAL IS, UH, FOR A FOUR FOOT FENCE, UH, UH, GOTHIC PICKET FENCE.
AND WE SEE HERE WE HAVE SPACING OF THREE INCHES AND THE POSTS ARE FOUR BY FOUR POSTS.
THE APPLICATION INCLUDED THE FACT THAT ALL THIS WOULD BE, UH, PRIMED AND PAINTED.
AND I CAN GO BACK TO THAT FOR A SECOND BECAUSE THAT'S EASY ENOUGH.
SO, UM, UH, WE DON'T HAVE IT ON HERE ACTUALLY.
SO, UM, AND NUMBER THREE, IT SAYS ONE INCH CAP, BUT THEY CHANGED IT TO THE THREE INCH CAP.
AND THE PICTURE RIGHT, THERE'S A THREE INCH CAP THERE SHOWN.
SO, UM, SO THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY OTHER THING LEFT IS TO ENSURE THAT THE, UH, THE WOODEN AND FENCE WILL BE PRIMED AND PAINTED OR OPAQUE STAINED.
IT WILL BE PRIMED AND PAINTED.
AND THEN, UH, WE'RE READY WITH OUR, UH, UH, Z AND I REPORT AND THE, UM, UH, STAFF REPORT.
UH, BEFORE, UH, BEFORE WE GET TO THAT, UH, DO WE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE ANY FINAL COMMENTS ON THE APPLICATION? NO, I THINK EVERYTHING'S INCLUDED.
AS I RECALL FROM, FROM OUR, UM, THE WORKSHOP IN THAT ONE CORNER WHERE THE GARAGE IS, THERE WAS LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF A JOG, BUT THAT'S GONNA GO STRAIGHT NOW, CORRECT? IT'S JUST GONNA YES.
BE STRAIGHT OUT AND AROUND, BUT THEY ALREADY CUT THE BUSH, SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WAS STILL THE CASE.
UH, DO WE HAVE ANY, UH, PROPONENTS OR OPPONENTS, UH, OF THE APPLICATION THAT RECEIVED NOTICE? DO YOU HAVE COMMENTS? OKAY.
UH, ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS COMMENTS ON THE PROJECT? OKAY.
UH, MATT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PROCEED WITH, UH, SURE.
THE ZONING REPORT AND, UH, STAFF FINDINGS? SURE.
THE, UH, FOR THE ZONING AND INSPECTIONS, THE, UM, ZONING INSPECTOR, UH, HAS INDICATED IT HAS NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS.
AND THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR SAID IT WILL NOT REQUIRE A BUILDING PERMIT.
SO THEN, UH, FOR OUR STAFF REPORT, UH, WE HAVE, THIS IS, UH, A PROJECT FOR MELANIE MUMFORD AT THREE 16 AVENUE C.
UH, THE HISTORIC PROPERTY NAME IS THE LP TAYLOR HOUSE FROM CIRCA 1932, UH, LISTED AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY DESCRIPTION FROM 1988 DESCRIBES THE LEE P TAYLOR PURCHASED THE LOT ON WHICH THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1921.
BUT, UH, THE HOUSE DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE 1931 SANBORN MAP.
TAYLOR IS LISTED AS A TRAIN MAN ON THE NORFOLK AND SOUTHERN RAILROAD IN 1937.
THE ONE STORY CRAFTSMAN INFLUENCED FRAME BUNGALOW HAS A JERK AND BEADED FRONT GABLE AND SMALLER SIDE GABLES.
EXTENDING ACROSS THE FRONT IS A HIP PORCH WITH STUBBY COLUMNS ON HIGH PIERS.
THE STANDING SEAM, METAL ROOFS HAVE EXPOSED RAFTER TAILS AND TRIANGULAR KNEE BRACES AND EXTERIOR CHIMNEYS LOCATED ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
AND THERE IS AN ENCLOSED REAR PORCH WINDOW SASH, R SIX OVER ONE.
THE HOUSE AND ITS TRIM ARE COVERED WITH ALUMINUM AND I JUST REALIZED THIS IS VERY TINY FOR EVERYBODY.
UM, AT SAND BECK THERE IS NO DESCRIPTION.
SO THE PROJECT FOR THREE 16 AVENUE C IS TO INCLUDE A NEW FOOT, NEW FOUR FOOT WOOD FENCING.
STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING HISTORIC DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, AKA GUIDELINES THAT MAY BE APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION FOR FENCES AND GARDEN WALLS.
2.52 AND THREE FOR DESIGN PRINCIPLES.
3.1 FOR PAINT, 5.4, 0.2, THREE AND FOUR.
AND THE STATEMENTS OF FACT, BASED ON THE
[00:25:01]
INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION ARE ONE, THE STRUCTURE IS A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.THE PROJECT IS TO INCLUDE A NEW TWO FOUR FOOT WOOD FENCING IN ALL ABCS PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, AKA GUIDELINES.
AND FOUR, THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND FIVE, THE APPLICATION IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES.
THE HPC MAY WANT TO CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.
ONE REVISED APPLICATION DOCUMENTS, ACCORDING TO THE CHANGES AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING, SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES AND PRIOR TO BEGINNING INSTALLATION OF THE PROJECT.
UM, COMMISSIONERS QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE APPLICATION? A VERY SIMPLE REQUEST.
FOUR FEET FENCE, THREE INCH SEPARATION.
UH, SO, I'M SORRY, THREE INCH PICKETS, ONE INCH SEPARATION.
AND IN THE PROP APPROPRIATE HEIGHT AND APPROPRIATE ZONES.
IT WAS, YEAH, YOU GOT THE, THIS THREE INCH SPACE IS THE THREE INCH SPACE BETWEEN THE PICKETS, NOT ONE INCH.
I, SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE TO FIND THE APPLICATION FOR THREE 16 AVENUE C TO BE NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEW BERN'S CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTIONS 15 4 11 TO 15 429 AND NEW BURCH HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES AND OR STANDARDS BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT FENCES AND GARDEN WALLS, 2.52 AND THREE DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1, 0.1 PAINT, 5.4, 0.23 AND FOUR.
AND THE ONLY CONDITION IS THAT YOU DO PAINT OR STAIN AS APPROPRIATE.
AND FINDINGS OF FACT THE STRUCTURE IS A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE IN THE TIGHT WE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
THE PROJECT IS TO INCLUDE A NEW FOUR FOOT WOOD FENCE IN ALL ABCS.
THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, ALSO KNOWN AS GUIDELINES.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICER OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND THE APPLICATION IS NOT IN CONGRESS WITH THE GUIDELINES.
ANY, UM, I, I DO MR. CHAIR DO ANY DISCUSSION? YEAH, YEAH, I DO HAVE A BIT OF DISCUSSION.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT CONDITION ABOUT THE PRIME AND PAINTED MAKES IT IN THERE.
I KNOW THE APPLICATION DIDN'T HAVE IT.
LET, LET, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S COVERED.
UH, ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, SAY AYE.
WE ISSUE A COA FOR THREE 16 AVENUE C.
HAVE, DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND.
ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
AND, AND WE'LL WANT THE WRITTEN DECISION ALSO.
UH, WRITTEN DECISION FOR THIS, THIS WAS IN THE PACKAGE IN, IN OUR PACKET, MR. CHAIR, I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT THE WRITTEN DECISION, THE DRAFT VERSION THAT'S BEFORE YOU, I DON'T THINK THAT INCORPORATES THE CONDITION.
UM, SO WE MAY WANT TO HOLD OFF ON ADOPTING THAT WRITTEN DECISION.
UH, CAN WE APPROVE IT, UH, WITH, UH, AMENDMENTS BASED ON THE CONDITION? Y YOU COULD, I THINK THE BETTER PRACTICE WOULD BE TO CIRCULATE IT SO THAT EVERYONE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE.
THAT WILL COME FORWARD TO THE NEXT MEETING.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS NOW.
SO WITHIN THE NEXT FEW DAYS WE'LL RECEIVE THE ACTUAL WRITTEN COA, UH, AND THEN, UM, SINCE THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS INDICATED THERE'S NO BUILDING PERMIT NECESSARY AND THE ZONING ALSO NO ZONING PERMIT NECESSARY, UH, YOU WOULD THEN BE ABLE TO PROCEED.
SO ONCE I HAVE THE PAPER, I CAN PROCEED? YES.
AND THEN DO I HAVE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE PAINTING? UH, SO YOU, YES.
SO YOU WILL NEED TO, UH, SEND ME AN EMAIL THAT SAYS THAT YOU WILL BE, YOU WILL BE, UH, PAINT, UH, PAINTING OR, UH, PRIMING AND PAINTING.
AND THEN I WILL BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY SIGN OFF ON THAT CONDITION.
I ALREADY DISCUSSED IT WITHIN THE MAYOR.
[00:30:05]
OKAY.UH, NEXT, NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS THREE 11 AVENUE C.
AND THIS IS A DEMOLITION AND, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I THOUGHT WE DECIDED NOT TO MOVE THAT ONE.
SO WE, SO WE WILL DO THAT ONE AS THE LAST ONE.
UM, WILL BE OUR NEXT, OUR NEXT APPLICATION, OUR NEXT HEARING.
AND MR. CHAIR, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, UM, I, I JUST WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO DRAW EVERYONE'S ATTENTION TO OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE, WHICH SET OUT SOME REQUIREMENTS AND CONSIDERATIONS FOR CONFLICTS OF INTEREST GENERALLY BEFORE EACH, UM, HEARING, ESPECIALLY WANT PROJECTS THAT HAVE RECEIVED, UM, A GREAT DEAL OF CONSIDERATION, PERHAPS A DESIGN REVIEW OVER SEVERAL MONTHS.
IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO TOUCH BASE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL, UM, BEARING THESE RULES IN MIND.
AS YOU ALL KNOW, UM, THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEEDING AND YOU ALL ARE QUASI-JUDICIAL DECISION MAKERS.
THEREFORE, CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS ARE INCUMBENT UPON YOU, SPECIFICALLY THOSE THAT PERTAIN TO ISSUES OF DUE PROCESS.
IT HAS COME TO MY ATTENTION THAT THERE WAS AN EMAIL CIRCULATED, UM, DATED TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 25TH, 2025 AT APPROXIMATELY, UH, 2300 HOURS WHEREIN, UH, ONE OF THE MEMBERS HERE, UM, EXPRESSED SOME THOUGHTS ON THE APPLICATION THAT'S GETTING READY TO COME BEFORE US.
AND WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM, THAT INFORMATION IS DISCLOSED.
I'VE ASKED, UH, MR. SHELLEY TO PRINT COPIES OF THAT EMAIL.
I BELIEVE THAT THAT EMAIL MAY HAVE ALREADY BEEN DISSEMINATED TO ALL OF YOU.
UM, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DEAL WITH ON THE RECORD TO UNPACK WHETHER ANY OF YOU, UM, MAY HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
AND BY CONFLICT OF INTEREST, I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE FORMED AN OPINION, UM, WITHOUT HEARING THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED TONIGHT.
UM, AND WITHOUT HEARING ANY INFORMATION FROM THE APPLICANT AND HAVING FIXED OPINION ABOUT THE APPLICATION BEFORE THE APPLICATION IS PRESENTED, UM, OR IF YOU'VE HAD AN EX PARTE COMMUNICATION THAT HAS NOT BEEN DISCLOSED.
SO IN LIGHT OF THAT INFORMATION, I OPEN IT UP FOR ANY OF THE MEMBERS, UM, TO SHARE ANY INFORMATION THEY MIGHT NEED TO DISCLOSE AS IT RELATES TO THIS, UM, APPLICATION AND TO ASK ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE IF YOU ALL ARE IN A POSITION.
TO BE FAIR, FAIR AND IMPARTIAL DECISION MAKERS TONIGHT, I SENT THE EMAIL, I'M PROUD OF WHAT I SAID, BUT I'M PREPARED TO GIVE DUE CONSIDERATION TO ANY EVIDENCE THAT COMES BEFORE US.
OKAY, MR. PARSONS, I'M GONNA ASK YOU A FEW ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
UM, IN LIGHT OF THE EMAIL THAT YOU SENT THAT EXPRESSES SOME OPINIONS ABOUT, UM, DETAILS OF THE APPLICATION.
ARE YOU SAYING TONIGHT THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SET ASIDE THE COMMENTS THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'RE PROUD OF AND MAKE YOUR DECISION BASED SOLELY ON THE INFORMATION EVIDENCE PROFFERED IN TONIGHT'S HEARING? I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.
THAT'S A, THAT'S A YES OR A NO QUESTION.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT BEFORE WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.
IF YOU HAVE ANY RESERVATION OR DOUBT IN YOUR MIND, THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION MAY BE NO.
SO I'LL, I'LL ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN.
ARE YOU IN A POSITION TONIGHT TO SET ASIDE YOUR PREVIOUS THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS AND MAKE YOUR DECISION ABOUT THE APPLICATION FOR 4 0 3 EAST FRONT STREET BASED SOLELY ON THE INFORMATION AND EVIDENCE PROPERTY IN THE HEARING TONIGHT? I BELIEVE THAT I CAN DO THAT.
DO ANY OF THE OTHER MEMBERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR ANY CONCERNS? IF, IF YOU SIMPLY READ A PART OF THE EMAIL, IS THAT A CONCERN? IF YOU DID NOT RESPOND TO THE EMAIL, UM, THEN THAT'S FINE.
IF, IF THE EMAIL, I GUESS I ASKED THE QUESTION TO EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE BOARD.
ARE ALL OF YOU ABLE TO SET ASIDE THE INFORMATION THAT MAY HAVE BEEN SHARED IN THE EMAIL THAT MR. PARSON SENT AND MAKE YOUR DECISIONS BASED SOLELY ON THE EVIDENCE AND INFORMATION PROPERTY IN TONIGHT'S HEARING? UH, YES.
SO I HAVE A YES FROM MR. MORRISON.
IN, IN FACT, WHEN I SAW THAT THIS WAS, UH, POSSIBLY A, A EX PARTE SITUATION, I HAVEN'T EVEN READ THE ENTIRE THING 'CAUSE I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO THIS HEARING.
IN LIGHT OF THAT INFORMATION, I THINK THE STATUTES REQUIRE,
[00:35:01]
UM, AN INQUIRY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE APPLICANT.DO YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO ANY OR ALL OF THE MEMBERS OF THE HPC PROCEEDING ON THE APPLICATION? IN LIGHT OF THE DISCLOSURE OF THE EX PARTE COMMUNICATION AND, UH, BE BEFORE YOU DO THAT, I JUST WANT TO NOTE THAT I DID READ THE EMAIL, WHICH IS, IS PROBABLY EX PARTE COMMUNICATION.
THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, I'M MARY GRADY.
UH, WE DO NOT OBJECT TO THE FOUR GENTLEMEN TO MY LEFT, UH, PARTICIPATING.
WE DO OBJECT TO THE AUTH AUTHOR OF THE EMAIL PARTICIPATING.
UM, AS WE ALL KNOW, THE STATUTE SPEAKS IN TERMS OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
IF YOU EXPRESS A FIXED OPINION THAT IS NOT CAPABLE OF BEING CHANGED OR OPEN, UH, TO BEING CHANGED, I WILL QUOTE FROM THE CLOSING PASSAGE OF THE EMAIL, UH, AT ISSUE, IF THE CITIZENS WERE ALLOWED TO SPEAK ON THIS MATTER, THEY WOULD BE LOUD IN FAVOR OF SAVING THESE PARTS OF THE BUILDING, BUT THEY CAN'T SPEAK BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE STANDING.
IT FALLS TO US TO DO WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE US DO, WHAT THE GUIDELINES CALL ON US TO DO.
I RESPECTFULLY, UH, SUBMIT THAT THIS IS A TEXTBOOK CASE OF A FIXED OPINION THAT, UM, WOULD VIOLATE MY MY CLIENT'S, UH, DUE PROCESS RIGHTS SHOULD MR. PARSONS BE ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE, UH, IN THE CONSIDERATION OF THE MATTER DENIED AND IN THE FINAL VOTE.
I'LL BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
AND MR. CHAIR, IN LIGHT OF THE APPLICANT'S OBJECTION, UH, ONE 60 D 1 0 9 SUBSECTION E, UM, GOVERNS AND THAT SUBSECTION READS, UM, THE CAP, ITS CAPTION RESOLUTION OF OBJECTION.
IF AN OBJECTION IS RAISED BY A BOARD TO A BOARD MEMBER'S PARTICIPATION AT OR PRIOR TO THE HEARING OR VOTE ON A PARTICULAR MATTER, AND THAT MEMBER DOES NOT RECUSE HIMSELF, THE REMAINING MEMBERS OF THE BOARD SHALL BY MAJORITY VOTE RULE ON THE OBJECTION.
SO AT THIS JUNCTURE, WE HAVE TWO OPTIONS.
IN LIGHT OF, UM, MR. GRADY'S OBJECTION, MR. PARSONS CAN RECUSE HIMSELF AND BE EXCUSED FROM VOTING ON THIS MATTER, OR A MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS CAN EXCUSE MR. PARS, MR. PARSONS, FROM DELIBERATING AND VOTING ON THIS MATTER.
ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE TWO OPTIONS.
UH, UH, CHAIRMAN, UH, COMMISSIONER PARSONS, UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO RECUSE YOURSELF? I DEFER TO MY COLLEAGUES.
SO, UM, WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, UH, TO RECUSE? I BELIEVE WE SHOULD RECUSE COMMISSIONER PARSONS.
AND CAN YOU BY SO MOVE TO RECUSE COMMISSIONER PARSONS.
AND WE, WE TYPICALLY STATE A REASON FOR RECUSE IS A PRIOR DECISION THAT HE IS EXPRESSED HIS OPINION IN A WAY THAT'S NOT IN LINE WITH, UH, THE WAY WE NORMALLY OPERATE.
SO WE HAVE A, A MOTION TO RECUSE.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND FOR DISCUSSION? ALL FOR DISCUSSION? I'LL SECOND.
ANY DISCUSSION? ANY QUESTIONS? THE, THE, THE RULES THAT YOU'VE READ SEEM FAIRLY CLEAR THAT, THAT THE, UM, ANYONE WHO HAS VOICED A FIXED OPINION PRIOR TO HEARING THE EVIDENCE SEEMS TO BE NOT ABLE TO, UM, FULLY LISTEN AND, AND WEIGH THE EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED.
UM, AND SO IT PAINS ME, BUT I, I, I, I, I, I THINK, UM, I'M GONNA HAVE TO VOTE FOR, FOR YES.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? OKAY.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION TO RECUSE? WE HAVE A SECOND.
UH, MR. PARSONS, THE, THE GENERAL, THE GENERAL WAY THAT WE DO THIS WHEN SOMEONE IS RECUSED IS, UH, TO JOIN THE AUDIENCE UNTIL THE HEARING IS DONE.
UM, I, NOW THAT OUR QUORUM IS NO LONGER A QUORUM, YOU HAVE A QUORUM, SIR, WERE YOU STILL, IS FOUR A QUORUM? NO, SIR.
IT'S, IT'S COMPUTED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING.
UM, AND THAT WHEN THE MEETING COMMENCED, YOU HAD FIVE MEMBERS.
THE SUBSEQUENT RECUSAL OR EXCUSE FROM VOTING ON A PARTICULAR MATTER DOES NOT AFFECT THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A QUORUM.
[00:40:06]
OKAY.[5.A. 403 E. FRONT ST. (Sudan Shriners’ Temple) – to include almost complete demolition of the building, but retaining the primary Broad Street entryway, and redevelopment with a parking lot, salvage and relocation of minaret, improvements to the Shriners memorial area, and retention and minor on-site relocation of the historic iron fencing. This application has been continued from the cancelled January 22, 2025 Regular Meeting.]
UM, I SUPPOSE THAT MEANS WE CAN BEGIN THE PROCEEDINGS.FOLLOWING ALONG WITH THE WAY WE NORMALLY CONDUCT HEARINGS, UH, THE HVC ADMINISTRATOR, UH, PROVIDES AN OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION.
SO THIS IS THE APPLICATION FOR, UH, 5 4 0 3 EAST FRONT STREET, ALSO KNOWN AS THE, UH, SHRINERS TEMPLE, UH, SITE.
UH, PROPERTY OWNER IS CRAVEN COUNTY AND, UH, THE APPLICANT IS DAVID GRIFFIN FROM OAKLEY COLLIER ARCHITECTS.
UH, IT HAS THE, UH, DESCRIPTION, UH, AND THE REFERENCE TO THE GUIDELINES AND ALSO REFERENCE MATERIALS, UM, AND FILLED OUT WITH THE SIGNATURE OF THE, UH, DESIGNATED AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE AND DATED, THIS IS THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
OWNER'S AUTHORIZATION FORM DESIGNATING MR. GRIFFITH AS THE, UH, DESIGNATED REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE COUNTY, AND IT IS SIGNED AND NOTARIZED.
SO, UM, WE'LL START FIRST WITH THE, UM, INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE, UH, STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE, WHICH DESCRIBES THE PROPERTY, UH, SHOWN HERE IN ITS LENGTH.
UH, WE WILL BE REINTRODUCING THIS, UH, LATER.
SO THIS, UH, ENTIRE TWO PAGES INCLUDES, UH, DESCRIPTIONS OF THE, UM, ARCHITECTURE OF THE BUILDING AND ITS, UH, HISTORIC IMPORTANCE, ACTUALLY THREE PAGES, POSSIBLY FOUR DATES.
UM, AND THAT WAS PROVIDED BY THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION SPECIALIST AT THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE.
SO, UM, ALSO, UH, ENTERED INTO THE RECORD HERE IS THAT THE, UH, PROPERTY IS INDEED INDICATED AS A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND THIS, THIS, WHAT THIS CONTINUATION SHEET DOES, UM, AS WELL AS, UH, THIS SECTION OF THE, OOPS, SORRY, I FORGOT WHAT THIS IS CALLED.
UM, AN AMENDED ITEM IN THE NOMINATION, UH, HERE IN BLUE.
UH, AND THIS EXPLAINS HOW IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO BE, UH, CONTRIBUTING.
AND HERE IT DOES SAY AT THE BOTTOM HERE, FOUR THREE NORTH NORTH, FRONT STREET, EAST FRONT STREET, THE ES, SMU, CHEM, SUDAN, TEMPLE CIRCA 1951 AS A CONTRIBUTING BUILDING.
THEN IN ADDITION, UH, IT ENDS UP IN THE, UH, BIBLIOGRAPHY, OR I'M SORRY, THAT'S THE BIBLIOGRAPHY FOR THAT.
AND THEN IT ALSO ENDS UP IN THE, UM, REPORT, UH, THE MONTHLY REPORT BY THE NATIONAL REGISTER FOR ALL NEW ADDITIONS AND CHANGES TO THE, UH, NATIONAL REGISTER AND SHOWS IT WAS APPROVED.
SO NEXT ARE PHOTOGRAPHS PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT.
THIS BEING, UH, THE BROAD STREET FRONT OF THE BUILDING OF PARTICULAR NOTE IS, UM, RELEVANT FOR LATER IS, UH, THE MAIN FRONT ENTRY FOR THIS TOWER AND ONION DOME AND VARIOUS OTHER ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES ON THE FRONT, INCLUDING, UH, SOME OF THE, UH, KEYSTONE OVER THE DOOR, OVER THE DOORS AND WINDOWS.
ANOTHER ANGLE VIEW LOOKING UP AT THE TOWER AND THE ACTUAL DOORS.
THEN WE HAVE THE, UH, SIDE OR, UH, IT TURNS OUT IT WAS OFF IN THE MAIN ENTRANCE AND WAS ALSO, UH, FAIRLY HIGHLY DECORATED AS AN ENTRANCE ON THE EAST SIDE, FACING THE RIVER.
UM, YOU CAN SEE SOME, MANY OF THE WINDOWS ARE BOARDED UP,
[00:45:01]
ONE FOR SECURITY, BUT ALSO FOR DUE TO DAMAGE FROM, UH, HURRICANE FLORENCE, WHICH IS ALSO EVIDENT WITH THIS, UH, BROKEN UP PORTION OF THE WALL.AND THEN TOWARDS THE BACK, ALSO FACING EAST IS, UH, THIS ADDITION THAT WAS ADDED, UH, MUCH LATER, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY GARAGES.
THEN THE, UH, WEST SIDE IS SHOWN HERE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH WITH, UM, UH, THE MINETTE HERE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A FLU FOR THE, UM, HEATING, UH, FURNACES IN THIS ROOM HERE IN THE CORNER.
AND THE WHITE AREA REPRESENTS ESSENTIALLY THE, UM, OVERALL MASS OF THE, UH, UM, AUDITORIUM THAT IS INSIDE THIS BUILDING.
THERE IS A BOTTOM FLOOR, UM, ABOUT, UM, AND THEN THE SECOND FLOOR, I'M SORRY, THE BOTTOM FLOOR IS ABOUT 10 FEET, EIGHT, 10 FEET, UH, TALL.
AND THE REST IS THE HEIGHT OF THE AUDITORIUM AT ITS SIDES.
AND THEN HERE'S A SIDE VIEW OF THAT.
AND TECHNICALLY THE PROPERTY INCLUDES THIS PARKING LOT, WHICH IS, UH, CURRENTLY BEING, WELL, WAS BEING LEASED BY THE COUNTY, BUT, UH, NOW IS OWNED BY THE COUNTY.
SO, UH, WHEN WE GET TO IT, UH, THIS IS THE PROPOSED, UH, REDEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THIS PROPERTY.
UM, WE CAN SEE, UH, THE BUILDING IS GONE IN ALMOST ITS ENTIRETY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THAT ENTRANCEWAY ON BROAD STREET.
UM, SOME OF THE IRON, UH, FENCING AND ALONG, UH, BROAD AND ALONG EAST FRONT STREET.
UH, AND THE OTHER PART OF THE PROPOSAL IS TO CONSTRUCT A NEW MASONRY WALL WITH DECORATIVE, UM, PILE LESTERS AND USING SALVAGE BRICK OR MATCHING BRICK, UH, BRICK.
THAT MAT MATCHES THE, UH, UM, EXISTING, UH, SHRINERS TEMPLE BUILDING.
ON THE LEFT HERE IS JUST THE FLOOR PLAN OF THE EXISTING, UH, COUNTY ADMINISTRATION BUILDING, AND THEY'VE INDICATED A FUTURE ADDITION POTENTIALLY OFF TO THE, TO THE WEST.
UM, THE REST OF THE SITE, OF COURSE, IS SHOWN HERE TO BE A PARKING LOT.
UH, AND, UM, UH, THERE'S, UH, NO PARTICULAR DETAILS AT THE MOMENT ABOUT, UH, THE MATERIALS OR, UH, PLANTINGS AT THIS TIME.
WE'LL BE DISCUSSING THAT LATER AS WELL, POSSIBLY.
SO THIS IS A VIEW OF THAT, UH, PORTION OF THE TEMPLE THAT WOULD BE, UH, RETAINED IN PLACE, INCLUDING THE FRONT STEPS THAT EXIST THERE.
NOW, UH, THE DOORS WOULD BE REPLACED SINCE THEY'RE, UH, DETERIORATING WITH, UH, UH, METAL DOORS.
AND, BUT THIS IS THE ORIGINAL BRICKS, UH, BRICK THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS WOULD BE CLEANED.
UH, THE CURRENTLY THE, UH, UH, TOP OF THIS AREA DOES NOT HAVE THIS PIECE ON IT, BUT THIS WOULD BE A PIECE THAT IS RESCUED FROM THE, UH, EAST FACING ENTRANCE, UM, BECAUSE, UH, IT'S SITUATED THERE AND BROUGHT TO REST ON TOP OF THIS PORTION OF THIS WALL TO SERVE AS A, UM, CAP, UH, TO THE WALL.
UH, WE'LL SEE IN ANOTHER VIEW HERE.
UH, SO I'M GONNA ZOOM IN HERE A LOT MORE.
UH, THE INSTRUCTION HERE, IT SEEMS WILL PROBABLY INCLUDE, UH, SOME ADDITIONAL, UH, BRICK WORK AND STRUCTURE BEHIND THIS WALL TO MAKE SURE IT, IT REMAINS STRUCTURALLY STABLE WHILE IT'S FREESTANDING.
UH, AND, UH, THE, UH, THERE MAY BE, UM, AND THERE WOULD BE A CAP ON TOP OF THAT AS WELL.
UH, AND SO, UM, THERE'S SOME DETAILS SHOWN HERE.
UM, THEN AT THE, UH, CORNER OF THE SITE WHERE THE, UH, CURRENT, UH, SHRINER STATUE IS, UH, THE STATUE AND THE FLAGPOLES WOULD REMAIN.
UH, AND THIS NEW, OOPS, LOOKS LIKE I HAVE TO GO A LITTLE SMALLER.
UH, ANY NEW, UH, WALL WOULD BE CONSTRUCTED BEHIND IT USING THE BRICKS OR SIMILAR BRICKS, UH, FROM THE TEMPLE ITSELF.
AND IT INCLUDES SOME DETAILS SUCH AS SOME OF THOSE KEYTONES ARE SHOWN IN THE TWO PILE LESTERS ON THE END.
[00:50:01]
UH, ONION DOMES ON TOP OF EACH ONE OF THOSE PILE LESTERS.UM, NOT SURE IF THE BENCHES ARE ALREADY THERE OR NOT.
YEAH, THEY'RE EXISTING, THEY'RE EXISTING PREEXISTING.
UH, WHAT THIS ALSO SHOWS A LITTLE BIT IN OBLIQUE IS, UH, THE, UH, IRON, UH, FENCING IS, UM, UH, PROJECTING OFF FROM THE PY LASTERS OFF INTO THE SUNSET, SO TO SAY.
OFF TO THE BACKGROUND HERE ON BOTH SIDES.
AND WE CAN SEE IN THE BACKGROUND IS THE PARKING LOT, UH, AND WITH TREES.
UM, SO THEY DO INTEND TO PUT TREES THERE AT SOME POINT.
UM, AND HERE WE SEE, UH, A COMPLETE VIEW OF THE ENTIRE THING, UH, THE ENTIRE PROPOSAL.
UH, SO STARTING WITH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE THE CORNER AND THEN GOING UP BROAD STREET, YOU CAN SEE THE DISTANCE TO THE, UH, ENTRANCE, UH, THE PRESERVED ENTRANCE AND SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE PLANTINGS THAT ARE, UH, THAT THEY'RE EXPECTING TO DO.
AND I SUPPOSE MAYBE SOME STREET PARKING.
UH, I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S, UH, NEW OR EXISTING.
SO, UM, UH, A WEEK, TWO WEEKS AGO, I THINK AFTER THE LAST, UH, AFTER THE MEETING WAS POSTPONED, I POINTED OUT THAT OUR, UH, UH, STAFF REPORT INDICATED, UH, SOME MISSING INFORMATION ON THAT, UH, PROPOSAL.
AND SO, UH, THE APPLICANT'S RESPONDED WITH THESE SIX ITEMS. UM, WE'LL GO OVER THEM LATER IN MORE DETAIL, BUT JUST BRIEFLY, UH, ONE IS ABOUT THE DOOR REPLACEMENT WITH A METAL DOOR HEIGHT OF THE NEW WALL, ABOUT THREE FEET.
UM, MATERIAL OF ALL THE CAPS, KEYS AND DOMES WILL BE WHITE PRECAST CONCRETE, UH, PLANTINGS WILL BE SELECTED LATER.
UH, AND LIGHTING LATER AND BUFFER AND PLANTINGS LATER.
AND THEN ACTUALLY NORMALLY I DO DO THE ZONING AND INSPECTIONS FIRST, UH, DURING THIS SECTION, UM, THIS IS FOR 4 0 3 EAST FRONT STREET, UH, PROJECT.
AND, UH, FOR THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR, HE INDICATED A ZONING PERMIT IS REQUIRED FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT.
AND THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR SAID A BUILDING AND FLOODPLAIN DEVELOPMENT PERMITS ARE REQUIRED.
UM, AND UH, I THINK HE MISSED THE DEMOLITION PERMIT AS WELL, BUT HE DIDN'T SAY THAT.
AND THEN I'M READY WITH MY STAFF REPORT WHENEVER YOU ARE.
WOULD THE APPLICANT, UH, LIKE TO PRESENT ANY OTHER INFORMATION? UH, YES, SIR.
MR. CHAIR, IF WE, UM, MAY AGAIN, I'M UH, THE APPOINTED COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR CRAVEN COUNTY.
I'D LIKE TO GIVE YOU A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF THE, UH, INFORMATION AND TESTIMONY WE WILL PREVENT, UH, PRESENT TONIGHT.
UM, AS YOU KNOW, THE LEGAL BACKGROUND IS, UH, SOMEWHAT STRAIGHTFORWARD.
UM, WE'VE GOTTA GET BOTH THE COA FOR THE DEMOLITION AND ALSO PRESENT IT WITH THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.
AS YOU'VE SEEN THIS EVENING, UM, WE BELIEVE THE PARKING LOT BEST SUITS THE NEEDS OF, UH, THE COUNTY AND THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE STATUTES AND THE TOWN'S, UM, LAND USE CODE, YOU SEE PHRASES LIKE EXTREME HARD HARDSHIP AND DEPRIVATION OF BENEFICIAL USE OR RETURN IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT IT MAY TAKE TO RENOVATE AN EXISTING STRUCTURE LIKE THE TEMPLE.
UM, WE ALSO SEE PHRASES LIKE ADAPTIVE REUSE IN A SENSIBLE MANNER.
WE THINK THAT BASED ON THE TESTIMONY WE'LL PRESENT, UH, TONIGHT, YOU'LL SEE THE, UH, EXTREME HARDSHIP, IF NOT THE LACK OF ANY ECONOMIC VIABILITY TOWARD RENOVATING WHAT'S THERE NOW.
UM, AND YOU ALSO SEE THE ADAPTIVE REUSE OF ELEMENTS OF THE CURRENT BUILDING IN OUR REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.
UH, WITH THAT, UM, I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO DAVID GRIFFIN.
HE IS OUR LEAD ARCHITECT AND HE'S GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE STATUS OF THE BUILDING AND, UH, WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO RENOVATE IT IN PLACE.
UM, I'M LOOKING AT EXISTING STRUCTURE.
UM, WITH ANY PROJECT, THE CERTAIN LIMITATIONS, UH, FOR THE COUNTY, IT DOESN'T REALLY MEET THEIR PROGRAMMATIC NEEDS.
[00:55:01]
PARKING IS A HIGH DEMAND AND THEN WE EVEN CONSIDERED LOOKING AT SALVAGING OR ADAPTIVE REUSE ON THE STRUCTURE.BUT WITH THE LOWER LEVEL BEING IN THE FLOODPLAIN, IT'S A THREE STORY LOAD BEARING, MASONRY STRUCTURE, RAISING IT, MOVING, NOT AN OPTION.
UH, AND EVEN FOR THE COUNTY, THE VIABILITY OF TRYING TO MAKE IT, THEY NEED OFFICE SPACE.
THEY DON'T NEED A GRAND BALLROOM, IT'S JUST YOU'VE GOT A SHELL OF A BUILDING THAT SERVES NO PURPOSE FOR THE COUNTY.
SO THERE'S NOT REALLY A, WE COULD SPEND $2,000 A SQUARE FOOT TRYING TO ADAPT THIS AND STILL DOES NOT SOLVE THEIR NEEDS FOR DOWNTOWN IS ALREADY SAID, PARKING IS ONE OF THEIR HIGHEST DEMANDS.
UM, THEY'VE GOT OBLIGATIONS THEY NEED TO MEET FOR PARKING REQUIREMENTS, SO THE STRUCTURE VERY MUCH IS IMPEDING THAT OPTION.
AS FAR AS PARKING, UM, THE PIECES WE'RE TRYING TO SALVAGE ARE SOMEWHAT ICONIC FOR THE BUILDING.
UM, WE'VE HEARD A VARIETY OF THINGS THROUGH ALL OUR MEETINGS.
THESE ARE, I THINK ARE WHAT ARE, ARE DOABLE, PRACTICAL, AND VIABLE.
THE SALVAGING OF ANY OTHER PORTION OF THAT BUILDING.
AS WE ALL KNOW, OTHER THAN THE FRONT FACADE, THERE'S NOTHING TO THE BACKSIDE OF THAT BUILDING.
THERE'S ONE LARGE, I GUESS IT WAS A BALLROOM INTENDED, IT'S ON A SECOND LEVEL.
YOU'VE GOT ELEVATORS AND STAIRS AND NONE OF THAT MEETS CURRENT CODE.
SO THAT'S NOT A REAL, IT'S JUST NOT A GOOD VIABLE OPTION FOR ADAPTIVE REUSE.
'CAUSE IT SERVES NO PURPOSE FOR THE NEW OWNER.
THE BEST OWNER WAS THE PREVIOUS OWNER AND IT NO LONGER SERVES THEIR PURPOSE.
I MEAN, THEY'VE CHOSEN TO LEAVE THE BUILDING SOMEWHAT AS IT IS 'CAUSE IT JUST DOESN'T FUNCTION FOR THEM EITHER.
THE COST OF REHABILITATION IS EXTREME AND EVERY PROJECT COMES WITH A LIMITATION AND FINANCE IS ONE OF THEM.
SO, UM, THAT'S REALLY THE, UM, I GUESS SUMMARY AS FAR AS THE INTENT, THE STRUCTURE JUST IS NOT WORTH THE VALUE TO TRY TO REHABILITATE IT FOR THE COUNTY TO GET OUT.
YOU TALKED ABOUT, UH, THE PRICE SQUARE FOOT AND HOW THAT MAY COMPARE TO THIS BUILDING.
UM, THIS IS SOMEWHAT WORKING DOWNTOWN DUBIN.
UM, WE JUST DID A NEW EXPANSION ON THE COURTHOUSE FRONT.
YOUR SOILS HERE ARE, UM, SOMEWHAT SUBJECTIVE.
WE SPENT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY BUILDING ONE SMALL ADDITION DOWN THERE.
'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO DO PILES OR HEEL PIERS DOWN INTO THE FOUNDATION TO EVEN SUPPORT IT ON THE SOILS HERE.
SO THAT STRUCTURE EXISTING NOW, IF YOU WOULD TRY TO CONSIDER PUTTING IN A SECOND FLOOR IN THAT LARGE BALLROOM, I CAN'T EVEN GET A FOUNDATION THROUGH AND DOWN TO EVEN SUPPORT THAT FLOOR.
'CAUSE ONCE I OPEN IT UP, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOILS THAT ARE MOST LIKELY GONNA NEED DRIVEN PILES OR HELIC PIERS.
SO, LIKE I SAID, ONCE AGAIN, THERE'S A FINANCIAL LIMITATION THAT JUST DOESN'T WORK WELL FOR THAT STRUCTURE.
NOW ANY QUESTIONS? NOT, NOT AT THIS POINT.
UH, MR. CHAIR, WE'VE GOT OUR FACILITIES, UM, LEAD ZACH CHINWE.
HE'S GONNA TALK ABOUT THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN AND WHAT YOU WILL, UH, SEE ONCE THE BUILDING IS HOPEFULLY DEMOLISHED UNION BOARD.
SO THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN, UM, WOULD OPEN UP THE ABILITY TO HAVE THIS FOR OUR PROGRAM NEEDS.
SO FOR COURT FACILITIES, WE HAVE TO HAVE, UM, PARKING.
WE HAVE THE COURTHOUSE ADJACENT TO THE PROPERTY.
AND, UM, BY STATUTE WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT ABILITY FOR FOLKS TO COME AND DO BUSINESS OUT AT THE COURTHOUSE.
ALSO, THIS WOULD, UH, OPEN UP THE PARKING LOT FOR BUSINESS AFTER HOURS.
SO FOR YOUR DOWNTOWN DISTRICT, THIS, THIS OPENS UP WHERE I KNOW PARKING IS A, IS AN ISSUE FOR ALL OF US DOWNTOWN.
UM, AND THEN THE, THE ADDITIONAL COMPONENTS OF THE BUILDING AND, AND THE, UM, THE REUSE OF THOSE COMPONENTS THAT ARE, ARE VERY IMPORTANT, UH, TO THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE.
BEING ABLE TO USE THOSE BACK IN THIS, UH, REDEVELOPMENT, UH, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT.
UM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK WE'VE LAID THAT OUT, UM, NICELY IN THESE RENDERINGS TO SHOW WHAT OUR WHAT, WHAT WE, WHAT, WHAT WE'RE WILLING TO DO.
UM, LAST BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST, WE'VE GOT OUR, UH, ASSISTANT COUNTY MANAGER, GENE HOD HODGES.
HE'S GOING TO GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF, UH, WHAT I WOULD CALL THE BIGGER PICTURE, UH, WHAT THE COUNTY'S OBLIGATIONS ARE VIS-A-VIS THE COURT SYSTEM AND WHAT OUR FIDUCIARY DUTIES ARE TO THE TAXPAYER WHEN IT COMES TO THINGS LIKE RENOVATING BUILDINGS.
AS AARON INTRODUCING, I'M GENE HODGES.
[01:00:01]
I'M THE ASSISTANT COUNTY MANAGER OF CRAVEN COUNTY.ONE OF THE KEY THINGS THAT WE ARE BOUND BY STATE CONSTITUTION IS TO PROVIDE COURT FACILITIES IN ORDER TO CONDUCT THE OPERATIONS OF THE COURT.
PART OF THAT IS TO INCLUDE ADEQUATE PARKING FOR, UH, VISITORS OF THE COURT FACILITY, UH, IN A 12 MONTH PERIOD.
THESE ARE STATISTICS I I OBTAINED FROM THE COURT OFFICE IN A 12 MONTH PERIOD.
THEY HAD 22,000 CRIMINAL CASES HEARD IN THAT COURTROOM, IN THAT COURTHOUSE.
THAT HAS NOT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT ANYTHING RELATED TO ESTATES, ANYTHING RELATED TO PROBATION COURT OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF ACTIVITIES THAT OCCUR INSIDE THAT FACILITY.
THAT'S 22,000 IN A YEAR'S TIME, A 12 BLOCK PERIOD.
THE OTHER THING THAT THE, UM, CLERK MADE SURE THE CLERK OF COURT MADE SURE THAT I NOTED IS THEY ALSO BRING IN OVER 200 CITIZENS EVERY MONTH TO SERVE ON JURIES.
UM, THEY ANTICIPATE 75 PEOPLE EVERY WEEK, THREE WEEKS OUT OF A MONTH.
SO 210, UH, PLUS INDIVIDUALS COMING IN, EVERYBODY'S GOTTA HAVE A PARKING SPOT.
UM, SO AGAIN, THAT IS PART OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE IS PROVIDE THOSE COURT SERVICES, UH, IS PROVIDE FACILITIES TO, TO, UH, GIVE THOSE COURT SERVICES TO OUR CITIZENS.
UM, THE OTHER ITEM, JUST TO AGAIN, TO POINT OUT IS OUR BOARD TAKES AN OATH AS ALONG WITH OUR COUNTY MANAGER, THAT WE HAVE A FIDUCIARY RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TAXPAYERS TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF THE TAXPAYER'S MONEY AND NOT TO SPEND IT, UH, UNWISELY OR IN A MANNER, UH, THAT IS NOT, UM, CONDUCIVE TO BEING, UH, TO BEING GOOD STEWARDS OF THAT MONEY.
UM, THAT BEING THE CASE, UM, SALVAGING OR TRYING TO ADAPT, ADAPTIVE REUSE, AS WE TALKED ABOUT, IS GONNA BE EXTREMELY COST PROHIBITIVE TO, UM, TO, UM, THE COUNTY, THE CITIZENS, THE TAXPAYERS, AND ULTIMATELY RESULT IN A NON-VIABLE PROJECT THAT DOES NOT MEET THE NEEDS OF THE COUNTY.
UH, MR. CHAIR BOARD MEMBERS, THAT CONCLUDES OUR INITIAL PRESENTATION.
WE'RE CERTAINLY AVAILABLE FOR, UH, QUESTIONS AND WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE AS NECESSARY AS THE MEETING PROGRESSES.
ARE THERE, ARE THERE ANY PROPONENTS OR OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVED NOTICE, UH, OF THE HEARING WHO WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT EVIDENCE AND RECEIVED NOTICE MEANS YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED A LETTER IN THE MAIL BEING A PROPERTY OWNER, UH, ADJACENT TO, UH, THIS PROPERTY IS, ARE THERE OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION? UH, THAT THEY WILL BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY, UH, BY THE APPLICATION.
CAN YOU, CAN YOU COME UP AND STATE YOUR NAME AND WE, WE WILL HAVE TO EVALUATE SINCE, SINCE YOU WERE NOT A, UH, SINCE YOU DID NOT RECEIVE NOTICE, WE'LL HAVE TO EVALUATE, UH, WHETHER YOU, WHETHER WE THINK YOU HAVE STANDING WITH THIS OR NOT.
UH, MY NAME IS RHETT CHRISTOPHER VAUGHN MCO.
UH, I'VE LIVED IN NEW BERN SINCE ABOUT 2012.
UM, BUT I'VE BEEN COMING HERE IN REGULARITY SINCE ABOUT THE YEAR OF 2007, UH, DURING THE SECOND WAVE OF THE WAR ON TERRORISM.
UH, MY FAMILY, MY RELATIVES SERVED IN BOTH THE UNITED STATES ARMY, IN THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA.
AND MY, UH, UH, RELATIVE THROUGH MARRIAGE OF MY SISTER SERVED IN THE UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS IN THE SECOND WAVE OF THE WAR ON TERROR.
UM, I BELIEVE THAT I'M PRETTY GOOD AT TAKING, UH, ANTHROPOLOGICAL APPRAISAL OF TRENDS IN OUR, OUR SOCIETY.
AND I'VE NOTICED, UH, SINCE THE YEAR 2018 WHEN HURRICANE FLORENCE HIT THAT, UH, SOMETHING OF A FLAG HAS GONE UP OVER CRAVEN AND CARTER COUNTY RESULTING IN EXPONENTIAL GROWTH.
EXCUSE ME, MR. CHAIR DEVELOPMENT.
CAN, CAN WE, BEFORE HE GOES ON WITH HIS TESTIMONY, CAN WE ESTABLISH THAT HE HAS STANDING IN, IN THIS MATTER? UH, ONE THING, ONE THING THAT WE REQUIRE, UH, IS ANY TESTIMONY, AND THIS IS FOR PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO HAVE STANDING AS WHETHER ANYONE ELSE AS WHETHER AS WELL AS ANYONE ELSE, UH, YOU REALLY NEED TO BE TALKING AND MAKING POINTS RELATED TO SPECIFIC GUIDELINES.
WE APPRECIATE, YOU KNOW, THE BACKGROUND INFORMATION.
BUT, UM, ANY, ANY COMMENTS, ANY TESTIMONY
[01:05:01]
BY YOU OR ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE? YES, SIR.IT REALLY NEEDS TO REVOLVE AROUND THE GUIDELINES.
I'LL GET RIGHT TO THE POINT, TO THE BOTTOM PARAGRAPH.
AND BEFORE WE EVEN GET THERE, MR. CHAIR, BEFORE THIS GENTLEMAN IS PERMITTED TO OFFER EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION OF THIS APPLICATION, WE NEED TO VERIFY THAT HE HAS STANDING.
SO, SIR, DO YOU LIVE OR HAVE A PROPERTY INTEREST IN ANY PROPERTY THAT MIGHT ADJOIN OR ABUT THE SUDAN PROPERTY? OH, I, I'M SO SORRY.
NO, I WAS, I WAS THINKING IN TERMS OF CULTURAL APPROPRIATION.
SO I CONSIDER MYSELF TO BE A NEIGHBOR OF ALL THINGS CRAVEN COUNTY.
SO YOU, YOU LIVE IN CRAVEN COUNTY? I'M A CULTURAL STAKEHOLDER.
SO YOU DO NOT HAVE A PROPERTY INTEREST ADJOINING OR ABUTTING THE SUDAN PROPERTY? UH, I'M SO SORRY.
NOT, I DID NOT MEAN I DID NOT INTEND TO, TO DECEIVE MYSELF OR THE COURT BY COMING UP.
DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OR ANY INFORMATION TO PROPOSE, TO SUGGEST THAT YOU WOULD EXPERIENCE A SPECIAL DAMAGE UNIQUE TO YOU THAT'S NOT COMMON TO OTHER PEOPLE IN CRAVEN COUNTY THAT WOULD BE AFFECTED BY THIS PROJECT? UM, COULD YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION? I APOLOGIZE.
MR. WILL YOU EXPERIENCE A SPECIAL DAMAGE, MEANING DAMAGES UNIQUE TO YOU, NOT COMMON TO OTHER CITIZENS IN CRAVEN COUNTY THAT WILL BE AFFECTED, UH, AS A RESULT OF THIS PROJECT? NO, I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE MANY OF US.
THAT WOULD ACTUALLY, UH, FEEL DAMAGED.
UNFORTUNATELY, THE STANDING THRESHOLD, UM, BY STATUTE AND BY CASE LAW REQUIRES THAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PROPERTY INTEREST, UM, THAT WILL DIRECTLY BE IMPACTED OR OTHERWISE DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF SPECIAL DAMAGE THAT'S UNIQUE TO YOU, THAT'S NOT COMMON TO OTHER PEOPLE.
UM, YOU DO NOT HAVE STANDING AND DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO OFFER EVIDENCE IN THIS HEARING UNLESS THERE'S SOME OTHER INFORMATION THAT YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED THAT WOULD BEAR ON YOUR STANDING.
I, I JUST, I BELIEVE THAT THE, THE, THE, THE, THE ARCHITECTURE AND THE STRUCTURE ITSELF, ELEMENTS OF IT MM-HMM
UH, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE ENTIRE THING.
UH, OUR REPRESENTATIVE OF OUR UNITY AS A COUNTRY.
AND, AND, UH, AND I BELIEVE THAT OUR, UH, I BELIEVE IT TO BE A SACRED SPACE AND I BELIEVE IT TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT.
AND I BELIEVE, AND I APPRECIATE THAT SIR.
HOWEVER, IN ORDER TO OFFER EVIDENCE IN A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE STANDING.
AND I, I'M NOT CERTAIN IF WE'VE HEARD ANY INFORMATION FROM YOU THAT DEMONSTRATES STANDING, BUT THIS IS A MATTER, UM, THAT THE BOARD WILL NEED TO RULE ON.
UH, AS, AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE
YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I I THINK WE ALL APPRECIATE WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BUT WE'RE RUNNING A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING BASED ON STATE STATUTES, BASED ON CITY ORDINANCES.
AND IN NORTH CAROLINA, PRESERVATION LAW IS BASED ON LAND USE LAW, WHICH IS WHAT JAMIE WAS REFERENCING AS FAR AS STANDING IS CONCERNED.
SO BASED ON THAT COMMISSIONERS, UM, SIR, MAY I, MAY I MAKE, UM, I I BELIEVE THAT THE STRUCTURE, UH, REP STANDS AS A VISUAL IMPRESSION.
SO, YOU KNOW, PROPERTY USAGE IS NOT, IS NOT NECESSARILY, UM, UH, IT DOESN'T IMBIBE ITSELF TO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.
FOR THE ARGUMENT THAT I'M PRESENTING, I'M PRESENTING THAT THE, THE, THE PROPERTY IS ACTUALLY USED IN A VISUAL WAY.
MR. CHAIR, UH, BEFORE WE GO TOO MUCH FURTHER INTO THIS GENTLEMAN'S TESTIMONY, UH, I WOULD ENCOURAGE THIS BOARD TO RULE ON WHETHER THIS GENTLEMAN HAS STANDING SUCH THAT HE MIGHT OFFER ANY EVIDENCE, UM, EITHER AS AN EXPERT WITNESS OR, OR TO THE GUIDELINES.
SO I, I MOVE THAT HE HAS NO STANDING.
ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A MOTION, UH, THAT THIS GENTLEMAN DOES NOT HAVE STANDING FOR THIS PARTICULAR, UH, HEARING.
ANY DISCUSSION? ANY COMMENTS? I, I, WE APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE OPINIONS ON THIS AND, AND I THINK IT'S GREAT YOU CAME TO THE MEETING TO EXPRESS THEM.
HOWEVER, AS THE ATTORNEY SAID, AND AS THE CHAIRMAN, UH, TALKED ABOUT AS WELL IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE, THERE'S A, IT'S A VERY STRICTLY DEFINED SET OF CONDITIONS AND, AND UNFORTUNATELY YOU DON'T MEET THOSE AND SO YOU'RE GOING UN BE UN IF WE VOTE, WE'RE GONNA BE UNABLE TO MAKE TESTIMONY IN THIS MATTER.
WE NEED, WE NEED TO PROCESS THROUGH, THERE'S A, THERE'S A MOTION ON THE YES.
WE NEED TO PROCESS THROUGH THE MOTION.
SO WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, UH, THAT THIS, THAT, UH, THERE'S NO STANDING HERE AND THE TESTIMONY IS NOT TO BE CONSIDERED.
[01:10:01]
UH, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.SO THE COMMISSION HAS, HAS RENDERED A DECISION.
UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE ONE? YOU, YOU WERE ABOUT TO MAKE A COMMENT.
CAN YOU MAKE ONE FINAL QUICK COMMENT AND THEN, UH, SO WE CAN MOVE ON? UM, YEAH, I JUST, I FEEL THAT THE NEW BERN SHRINE CLUB HISTORICAL STRUCTURE MUST BE CHANGE ED IN SOME WAY.
UH, UH, ANYONE ELSE WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE, UH, RELEVANT INFORMATION.
MATT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PRESENT, UH, STAFF FINDINGS AND SURE.
THIS IS OUR STAFF REPORT, UH, FOR THE APPLICANT'S, UH, CRAVEN COUNTY AND DAVID GRIFFIN.
UH, AT, UM, 4 0 3 EAST FRONT STREET, THE ES SMU CHEM, UH, SUDAN TEMPLE, UH, CIRCA 1951.
UH, AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, THE UM, PROJECT IS TO INCLUDE ALMOST COMPLETE DEMOLITION OF THE BUILDING, BUT RETAINING THE PRIMARY BROAD STREET ENTRYWAY AND REDEVELOPMENT WITH A PARKING LOT, UM, NO LONGER SALVAGE AND RELOCATION OF THE MINETTE, UH, IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SHRINERS MEMORIAL AREA AND RETENTION AND MINOR ONSITE RELOCATION OF THE HISTORIC IRON FENCING.
UH, THE NEW, THE NATIONAL REGISTER, NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT INVENTORY DESCRIPTION, UM, UH, DID NOT ACT WAS ADDED AS A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE IN 12 28 20 23.
UH, DID NOT HAVE A DESCRIPTION AT THAT TIME.
UH, THE HISTORIC PRES, THE NORTH CAROLINA HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE DESCRIPTION, UH, THAT LETTER THAT I HAD POINTED OUT EARLIER, I'M GOING TO PULL OUT ONLY THE HIGHLIGHTED AREAS TO SAVE US FROM FOUR PAGES OF READING.
THE NEWBURN CHAPTER OF THE SUDAN SHRINERS WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1916 AND WAS OFFICIALLY CHARTERED THE FOLLOWING YEAR.
THE CHAPTER GREW QUICKLY WELCOMING MEMBERS FROM ACROSS EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA.
IN ADDITION TO THEIR FRATERNAL CEREMONIES AND ACTIVITIES, THE ORGANIZATION REGULARLY RAISED FUNDS FOR VARIOUS CHARITABLE CAUSES, INCLUDING THE OXFORD ORPHANAGE, THE MASONIC HOME, THE SHRINERS WIDOWS FUND, AND LATER THE SHRINERS HOSPITALS FOR CHILDREN, THE BUILDING DERIVES ITS PRIMARY SIGNIFICANCE FROM ITS ARCHITECTURE.
THE TEMPLE IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE MOISH REVIVAL STYLE, AN EXOTIC REVIVAL STYLE EVOCATIVE OF ISLAMIC AND MIDDLE EASTERN ARCHITECTURE.
THE STYLE ROSE TO PROMINENCE DURING THE LATE 18TH AND EARLY 19TH CENTURY.
AS TRADE IN CONTACT WITH ASIA AND THE MIDDLE EAST INCREASED LIKE MANY EXOTIC REVIVAL STYLES.
THE MOISH REVIVAL STYLE EXPERIENCED A RESURGENCE DURING THE 1920S AND 1930S.
THE STYLE WAS MOST POPULAR FOR HOTELS, THEATERS, CASINOS, AND GARDEN STRUCTURES.
THE SHRINERS, WHICH WERE ESTABLISHED IN 1872, OFTEN SELECTED THE MOORISH REVIVAL STYLE FOR THEIR TEMPLES.
AS IT REFLECTED THE ORGANIZATION'S MIDDLE EASTERN INFLUENCES MOST OF THE MOORISH REVIVAL STYLE TEMPLES DATE TO THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY.
BUT SOME LATER TE BUT SOME LATER TEMPLES LIKE THE E ESS CHEM SUDAN TEMPLE IN NEW BERN CONTINUED TO REFLECT HALLMARKS OF THE STYLE.
THE ES LAMU CHEM SUDAN TEMPLE IS ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT AS AN INTACT VERNACULAR.
EXAMPLE OF THE MOISH REVIVAL STYLE IN NEW BERN BUILT IN 1951, THE TEMPLE BLENDS THE DEFINING FEATURES OF THE MORRIS REVIVAL STYLE WITH THE CLEAN LINES AND SIMPLE GEOMETRIC FORMS OF MID-CENTURY ARCHITECTURE, RESULTING IN A UNIQUE INTERPRETATION OF THE STYLE DESIGNED BY LOCAL WILMINGTON ARCHITECT BURETTE STEVENS AND HIS SON ROBERT STEVENS.
THE SUDAN TEMPLE FEATURES A LARGE ONION DOME, HORSESHOE ARCHES WITH DECORATIVE LATTICE WORK, A STEPPED PARAPET AND A CORNER MINETTE, WHICH ARE COMMON CHARACTERISTICS OF THE MOORISH REVIVAL STYLE.
ALTHOUGH THE LARGE BANKS OF WINDOWS ALONG THE CENTRAL TOWER ARE MORE INDICATIVE OF MODERN INFLUENCES, THE LATTICE WORK PAINS ECHO THE ORNAMENTATION OF THE HORSESHOE ARCHES AND ARE REMINISCENT OF THE PERFORATED SCREEN WALLS FOUND ON MORE ELABORATE EXAMPLES OF THE MORRIS REVIVAL STYLE.
LIKEWISE, THE WINDOWS THROUGHOUT THE MAJORITY OF THE 1951 SECTION, THE BUILDING REFERENCED THESE LATTICE DETAILS EXHIBITING THREE PART METAL SASHES WITH TRIANGULAR PANES ARRANGED IN AN X SHAPE COMPARED TO OTHER EXAMPLES OF THE STYLE OF THE SUDAN.
TEMPLE IS RELATIVELY SIMPLE IN ITS DESIGN.
[01:15:01]
THE BUILDING, SIMPLE GEOMETRIC FLAT ROOF FORM, SUBDUED ORNAMENTATION AND LARGE BANKS OF WINDOWS ALONG THE CENTRAL TOWER AND WEST BLOCK REFLECT THE MODERN ARCHITECTURAL STYLES POPULAR DURING THE MID 20TH CENTURY.INTERESTINGLY, THE TEMPLE ALSO EXHIBITS SOME FEATURES REMINISCENT OF THE EGYPTIAN REVIVAL STYLE AND EXOTIC REVIVAL STYLE POPULAR DURING THE LATE 19TH AND EARLY 20TH CENTURIES.
THE FIRST STORY OF THE ENTRY TOWER IS SLOPED AND ANGLED, WHICH IS AN ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE ASSOCIATED WITH THE EGYPTIAN REVIVAL STYLE.
THE BATTERED BRICK ENTRY SURROUND WITH HEAVY ANGLED RAVE AND A LARGE CENTRAL KEYSTONE ECHO THAT SLOPED FORM OF THE FIRST STORY.
A SIDE ENTRY ALONG THE EAST ELEVATION OF THE BUILDING DISPLAYS A NEARLY IDENTICAL SURROUND SECONDARY ENTRIES ALONG THE FACADE.
ALSO AN EXHIBIT, AN ANGLED ARCHITRAVE WITH A CENTRAL KEYSTONE, BUT LACKED THE BATTERED BRICKS AROUND THE WINDOW, LINT ALONG THE FACADE, AND A PORTION OF THE EAST ELEVATION OF THE MAIN BLOCK FEATURED, UH, FEATURE ANGLED SPLAY JACK ARCHES WITH AN OVERSIZED KEYSTONE MIRRORING THE ARCHITRAVES ABOVE THE ENTRIES.
THE SEDAN TEMPLE RETAINS A HIGH DEGREE OF ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY DESPITE DAMAGE DURING HURRICANE FLORENCE.
THE 1951 AND 1956 SECTIONS OF THE BUILDING REMAIN EXTANT AND RELATIVELY INTACT.
THE INTERIORS APPEAR TO RETAIN ORIGINAL MATERIALS INCLUDING HISTORIC WALL AND FLOOR TREATMENTS, DOORS AND BATHROOM FIXTURES.
THE STAGE AND COLLAPSIBLE BLEACHERS IN THE AUDITORIUM ALSO REMAIN EXTANT.
HOWEVER, UH, SINCE THIS WAS WRITTEN, THE BLEACHERS HAVE BEEN REMOVED.
UM, OVERALL, THE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR OF THE ES SMU CHEM SUDAN TEMPLE REFLECTS ITS HISTORIC APPEARANCE WITH FEW MATERIAL CHANGES.
THEREFORE, THE SUDAN TEMPLE RETAINS THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES NECESSARY TO COMMUNICATE ITS ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE AS AN INTACT VERNACULAR.
EXAMPLE OF THE MAORISH REVIVAL STYLE IN NEWBURN.
YES, SMU, CHEM SUDAN TEMPLE'S BLEND OF EXOTIC REVIVAL STYLES AND MODERN DESIGN RESULTS IN A DISTINCT NATIONAL EXPRESSION OF THE MORRIS REVIVAL STYLE THAT CONNECTS THE NEAR EASTERN INFLUENCE OF THE SUDAN SHRINERS WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLES POPULAR AT THE TIME OF THE BUILDING'S CONSTRUCTION.
THE TEMPLE IS NOT ONLY A UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF ITS STYLE, BUT IS DISTINCTIVE FROM THE SURROUNDING RESIDENCES, COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, AND INSTITUTIONAL BUILDINGS FOUND IN THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE SUDAN TEMPLE ALSO RETAINS A HIGH DEGREE OF INTEGRITY OF LOCATION DESIGN, SETTING MATERIALS, WORKMANSHIP FEELING AND ASSOCIATION, AND IT GOES ON FROM THERE, BUT I BELIEVE THE REST OF THAT OUT.
SO, UM, THEN THE SAND BECK DESCRIPTION, THERE IS NONE.
AND SO, UM, STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING EXCERPTS FROM THE HISTORIC DISTRICT PRINCIPLES AND DESIGN STANDARDS.
GUIDELINES ARE APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION.
THE PROCESS FOR WHICH CONSISTS OF TWO DELIBERATIONS, FIRST DEMOLITION, AND IF THE DEMOLITION IS APPROVED, THEN REDEVELOPMENT.
SO DEMOLITION DELIBERATION, ONE FOR DEMOLITION.
UM, UH, SECTION 6.4, UH, DEMOLITION OF THE GUIDELINES, UH, STATES THE SUCCESS OF PRESERVATION DEPENDS ON ADAPTIVE REUSE OF HISTORIC RESOURCES TO MEET CURRENT NEEDS.
DEMOLITION IS AN IRREVERSIBLE ACTION RESULTING IN A PERMANENT LOSS OF THE INTEGRITY AND CHARACTER OF HISTORIC RESOURCES.
PREPARATION OF A DEMOLITION COA APPLICATION SHOULD INCLUDE A DETAILED REPORT ON THE HISTORY OF THE STRUCTURE AND PROPERTY FROM THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE.
JUST READ THAT DEMOLITION OF A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE REQUIRES A TWO-PART COA, WHERE DEMOLITION IS FIRST CONSIDERED, AND IF ALLOWED, FOLLOWED BY CONSIDERATION OF THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.
DEMOLITION SHALL NOT PROCEED UNLESS BOTH PARTS OF THE COA ARE APPROVED.
IF DEMOLITION IS DENIED, THE PROPERTY OWNER IS REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN THE PROPERTY AND ITS STRUCTURE TO PREVENT DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT.
AND THE HPC MAY DENY THE DEMOLITION OF A STRUCTURE OR SITE IF IT IS CURRENTLY LISTED IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES, WHICH IT IS.
SO GUIDELINES FOR DEMOLITION, 6.4 0.2, THREE, FOUR, AND FIVE.
IN ADDITION, THE GUIDELINES STIPULATE IN RENDERING A DECISION ON DEMOLITION COA.
THE HPC SHOULD ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING THREE CONSIDERATIONS.
CONSIDERATION ONE, ADDRESS THE HISTORICAL, CULTURAL AND ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STRUCTURE.
SO IS IT A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE? UM, STAFF SUBMITS THAT, YES, THE TEMPLE TEMPLE WAS ADDED TO THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY AS A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE ON DECEMBER 28TH, 2023.
SECOND, IS IT SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE OF ITS HISTORIC USE IN EVENT, A PERSON, A BUILDER, OR AN ARCHITECT STAFF SUBMITS ACCORDING TO THE
[01:20:01]
TECHNICAL ADVICE LETTER FROM THE SHIPPO DATED DECEMBER 22ND, 2023? NOT PRIMARILY THE LETTER STATES, ALTHOUGH THE ES, SMU, ELAM, SUDAN TEMPLE HAS STRONG CONNECTIONS TO THE SOCIAL AND FRATERNAL HISTORY OF NEW BERN AND EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA, THE BUILDING DERIVES ITS PRIMARY SIGNIFICANCE FROM ITS ARCHITECTURE.AND THIRDLY, IS IT THE LAST OR OLDEST EXAMPLE OF A CERTAIN BUILDING TYPE AND STAFF SUBMITS? IT DEPENDS.
IT COULD BE THE ONLY ONE OF THIS TYPE.
ACCORDING TO THE TECHNICAL ADVICE LETTER FROM SHIPPO DATED DECEMBER 22ND, 2023.
THE BUILDING IS PRIMARILY A MOREISH REVIVAL STYLE BUILDING DESIGNED AT THE END OF THE PERIOD FOR THE STYLE DESIGNATED OR DESIGNED WITH MODERN AND EGYPTIAN REVIVAL STYLE FEATURES.
WHILE MENTIONING OTHER EARLIER MORRIS REVIVAL STYLE BUILDINGS.
THE LETTER DOES NOT MENTION ANY THAT ARE A COMBINATION OF THESE STYLES, MAKING IT POSSIBLY THE ONLY SUCH BUILDING IN THE WORLD.
THE LETTER CONCLUDES THE DESCRIPTION OF THE BUILDING WITH SUDAN TEMPLE'S BLEND OF EXOTIC REVIVAL STYLES AND MODERN DESIGN RESULTS IN A DISTINCT VERNACULAR EXPRESSION OF THE MOORISH REVIVAL STYLE THAT CONNECTS THE NEAR EASTERN INFLUENCES OF THE SUDAN SHRINERS WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLES POPULAR AT THE TIME OF THE BUILDING'S.
CONSTRUCTION TEMPLE IS NOT ONLY A UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF ITS STYLE, BUT IS DISTINCTIVE FROM THE SURROUND SURROUNDING RESIDENCES, COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, AND INSTITUTIONAL BUILDINGS FOUND IN THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE SUDAN TEMPLE ALSO RETAINS A HIGH DEGREE OF INTEGRITY OF LOCATION DESIGN, SETTING MATERIALS, WORKMANSHIP FEELING AND ASSOCIATION.
SO IT IS POSSIBLY THE ONLY ONE OF ITS KIND.
IT IS DISTINCTIVE IN NEW BERN AND STILL RETAINS ITS HISTORIC INTEGRITY.
SO, CONSIDERATION TWO, ADDRESS THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE.
WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS OF FOUNDATIONS? FLOORS, WALLS, WINDOWS, DOORS AND ROOFS.
STAFF SUBMITS STAFFS ACCOMPANIED THE SEVERAL TOURS OF THE BUILDING.
SINCE THE FLOODING FROM FLORENCE, THERE ARE VERY FEW APPARENT CONCERNING CONDITIONS OF FOUNDATION, FLOORS, WINDOWS, DOORS, AND ROOFS.
THE APPARENT DAMAGES ARE EITHER ISOLATED, MINOR CASES CAUSED BY WHITE WATER INTRUSION OR SUPERFICIAL DAMAGE FROM VANDALISM.
THE RETRACTABLE SEATING UNITS IN THE AUDITORIUM HAVE BEEN REMOVED BY THE NEW OWNERS.
UH, SECONDLY, IS IT A HAZARD TO PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE? STAFF SUBMITS A REPORT FROM THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR IS PENDING.
IT SEEMS SINCE THE NEW OWNERS HAVE TAKEN POSSESSION OF AND SECURED THE SITE OF VANDALISM HAS CEASED CONSIDERATION.
ADDRESS ATTEMPTED PRESERVATION EFFORTS.
UH, SO HAVE OPTIONS FOR REHABILITATION BEEN EXPLORED WITH PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS.
UM, THE APPLICANTS HAVE STATED THEY HAVE LOOKED AT REHABILITATION AND REUSE OF THE BUILDING AND ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS.
UH, THE APPLICANTS HAVE INDICATED THEY HAVE EXPLORED OPTIONS FOR REHABILITATION WITH PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS.
THE APPLICANTS ARE PROPOSING TO RETAIN THE MAIN ENTRY ON BROAD STREET, THE BRICK PAVERS, STATUE AND FLAG POLES ON THE CORNER AT THE ROUNDABOUT, UH, NO LONGER THE MINETTE AND RELOCATING THE WROUGHT IRON FENCING FROM THE 19TH CENTURY OLD NELSON HOUSE THAT WAS ALSO THE SHRINER'S ORIGINAL OLD TEMPLE HOME.
IF POSSIBLE, SOME OF THE BRICKS WILL BE USED TO CREATE A SHORT WALLET, THE STATUE AND A FEW ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS WILL BE MOUNTED IN THE WALL.
SECOND, HAS THE APPLICANT BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL IN SEEKING ALTERNATIVES TO DEMOLITION? STAFF SUBMITS THE APPLICANTS HAVE STATED THEY HAVE LOOKED AT ALTERNATIVES TO DEMOLITION AND ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS.
AND THE DESIGN REVIEW MEETINGS.
HPC HAS SUGGESTED VARIOUS OPTIONS FOR RETAINING IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE BUILDING.
SOME OF THESE SUGGESTIONS ARE IN THE PROPOSAL.
THIRDLY, HAVE ALTERNATIVES FOR STRUCTURE RELOCATION, SALE OF THE PROPERTY BEEN PURSUED, STAFF SUBMITS THIS STRUCTURE IS FAR TOO LARGE AND MASSIVE FOR RELOCATION.
THEREFORE, THIS IS NOT A VIABLE CONSIDERATION.
THE APPLICANT HAS STATED THEY WILL OFFER FOR OTHERS TO SALVAGE PARTS.
UH, AND I WILL ADD THEY HAVE GOTTEN SOME RESPONSES FROM SOME PEOPLE FOR SMALL PARTS OF THE PROJECT.
UH, SO STATEMENTS OF FACT, BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION IN STAFF'S JUDGMENT, R ONE, THE PROJECT IS A PROPOSAL IN THE WATERFRONT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN TO DEMOLISH ONE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT AND IN THE NEW BERN LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
DESPITE THE FLOODING OF HURRICANE FLORENCE IN 2018 AND SUBSEQUENT VACANCY, THE SHIPPO HAS INDICATED THAT SUDAN TEMPLE RETAINS A HIGH DEGREE OF ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY.
THE BUILDING POSES MANY PROMINENT ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES THAT MAKE IT A UNIQUE COMBINATION OF THE MOREISH REVIVAL ARCHITECTURAL STYLE WITH MODERN AND EGYPTIAN REVIVAL FEATURES FOUR.
PRESERVATION OF SIGNIFICANT ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS OF THE BUILDING WOULD PRESERVE SOME OF THE UNIQUE FEATURES OF THE BUILDING.
PRESERVING PARTS OF THE BUILDING WOULD HONOR THE HISTORY OF THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF THE SHRINERS WITH AND FOR THE NEW BERN COMMUNITY AND THEIR MISSION BEYOND
[01:25:01]
NEW BERN.PRESERVING PARTS OF THE BUILDING PROVIDE A PHYSICAL PRESENCE AND OPPORTUNITY TO TRIGGER MEMORIES AND STORIES OF THE WORK AND EXPERIENCES OF THE NEW BERN SHRINERS.
IN DURHAM, A HISTORIC WAREHOUSE AND LOCAL GRILL WHERE THE FACADE WAS RETAINED AND A NEW DEVELOPMENT WAS BUILT BEHIND IT.
PRESERVATION AND REUSE OF ANY OF THE EXISTING BUILDING MUST CONSIDER THE ENTIRE FOOTPRINT OF THE EXISTING BUILDING IS IN THE AE FLOOD HAZARD ZONE.
THEREFORE, THE ENTIRE FIRST FLOOR AREA OF ANY PRESERVED PORTIONS OF THE EXISTING BUILDING CAN ONLY BE USED FOR STORAGE, PARKING, OR ACCESS TO THE UPPER FLOORS.
THE PROPOSED REDEVELOPMENT FOR THE SITE WILL NEED TO BE APPROVED BY THE HPC IN DELIBERATION, TWO BEFORE A COA AND A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT MAY BE ISSUED.
AND NINE, THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND SO THE HPC SHALL DELIBERATE ON THIS FIRST SEGMENT OF THE PROCESS BEFORE PROCEEDING TO DELIBERATION TWO.
SO I WILL HOLD OFF OUR STAFF REPORT UNTIL THEN.
UH, WOULD THE APPLICANT, UH, LIKE TO MAKE ANY FINAL COMMENTS BEFORE THE COMMISSION TAKES THIS ON? I THINK WE'RE OKAY FOR OUR ALRIGHT.
ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONERS, UM, COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? I, I, I DO HAVE A QUESTION.
UM, AND IT'S REALLY MORE ON PROCESS IS THAT, AS I UNDERSTAND IN READING THE, THE RULES PROCEDURES, THIS IS A TWO PART AND ACTUALLY TWO DIFFERENT HEARINGS TODAY WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT, AT DEMOLITION AND PROVIDED THERE IS A, AN AFFIRMATIVE ON THAT, THEN THE NEXT HEARING AT SOME POINT WILL BE ON THE, UM, ON THE NEW, ON THE NEW REDEVELOPMENT.
UM, BUT THE, THE DEMOLITION WILL BE HELD UNTIL THE APPROVAL OF THAT DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT THAT IS THE, THAT WAS THE INTENT OF THE RULES OF PROCEDURE AS THEY, AS WE PUT THEM TOGETHER.
SO IF THAT REDEVELOPMENT PLAN NEVER GETS APPROVED, THEN THE DEMOLITION CAN NEVER OCCUR.
AND IT MIGHT BE A MONTH, TWO MONTHS BEFORE THAT'S HELD.
AND IT AT THE DEMOLITION PERMIT IS JUST HELD UNTIL IF AND UNTIL THE, THE DE THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS, IS OF, UH, COMMISSIONER VOCA, UH, WIKA WOULD POINT OUT THAT, UH, THE DELIBERATION ON THE REDEVELOPMENT CAN OCCUR THE VERY SAME EVENING.
THE DELIBERATION ON THE REDEVELOPMENT CAN OCCUR THE VERY SAME EVENING.
IT CAN OCCUR THE, THE, SO WE CAN APPROVE THE REDEVELOPMENT AND THAT I THOUGHT IT HAD TO BE TWO SEPARATE HEARINGS.
IT IS TWO SEPARATE HEARINGS ON THE SAME DAY? YES.
I MEAN, TECHNICALLY IT'S THE SAME HEARING.
IT'S JUST TWO PARTS OF THE SAME HEARING.
THE, THE INTENT OF WHAT WE PUT TOGETHER PROCEDURALLY BACK IN 2016 WAS IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S TWO PIECES.
THERE'S DEMOLITION AND YOU CONSIDER ONLY THE DEMOLITION, NOT WHAT'S GOING BACK.
DOES, DOES DEMOLITION STAND ON ITS OWN? MM-HMM
ASSUMING DEMOLITION IS APPROVED, THEN YOU DEAL WITH THE REDEVELOPMENT AND THE INTENT BEHIND SAYING YOU CAN'T DO THE DEMOLITION UNTIL REDEVELOPMENT IS APPROVED WAS TO PREVENT BASICALLY EMPTY LOTS
WHERE SOMEONE WOULD COME IN AND DEMOLISH AND THEN WE'RE STUCK WITH AN EMPTY LOT AND THEY MAY NEVER BUILD ANYTHING BACK.
JUST WANTED TO BE CLEAR, CLEAR, CLEAR ON THAT.
SO LOOKING AT THE GUIDELINES, UH, CONDITION ONE, IS IT CONTRIBUTING? YES.
WHEN WE HEAR THE, THE WRONG ARTICLE FROM SHIPPO, THERE'S NOTHING CLEARLY THERE SAYING IT'S THE LAST OR THE OLDEST.
THERE WERE A LOT OF PERHAPS AND COULD BE.
UH, AND, AND ONE THING IF THIS WAS SO IMPORTANT, THE PREVIOUS OWNER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEEK STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE FOR THIS BUILDING AS HAD THE CITY, THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEEK STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE, IN WHICH CASE DEMOLITION WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT.
UH, SO NONE, NONE OF THOSE STEPS OCCURRED.
AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT THE OWNER THAT ABANDONED THE BUILDING AFTER FLOOD.
AND SO IN SOME WAYS, THE ORIGINAL OWNER SOUGHT TO MOVE ON AND GET A NEW PURCHASER WHO COULD PERHAPS EITHER USE OR CHANGE THE USE OF THE
[01:30:01]
BUILDING OR PERHAPS LOOK FOR DEMOLITION.IS THAT CORRECT? SO ALL THIS WAS DONE BASED UPON NOTES FROM A PREVIOUS VISIT BY SOMEONE ELSE.
SO, UH, SHIPPO, UM, THE, UH, RESTORATION SPECIALIST WAS HERE, UH, UH, WHILE THE PRIOR OWNERS OWNED IT AND TOURED THE, THE BUILDING.
THEN AFTER WE DID, AFTER FLORENCE? YES.
NO, AFTER WHAT? WE OH, AFTER, AFTER THE HPC? NO, AFTER WE REQUESTED THE LETTER.
AND THE AUTHOR OF THE DOCUMENT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT ALL RESOURCES SHE DEPENDED ON POTENTIALLY INCLUDING THAT PERSON DID NOT COME UP.
'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE SHE STATES IN THE, ON THE RIGHT.
SHE DID NOT VISIT, UM, THE CONDITIONS OF THE FOUNDATIONS, WALLS, WINDOWS, DOORS, ROOFS, UM, THE BOTTOM HAD COMPLETE BLOOD INCURSION.
WE HAD TO WEAR MASKS, ET CETERA.
UM, AND IT'S ENCOURAGING THAT THEY DID BOARD UP THE WINDOWS.
SO THERE WAS SOME PREVENTION OF HEALTH HAZARDS AND RODENTS AND VAGRANTS.
BUT, UH, IF THIS WAS A SMALLER BUILDING AS WE'VE DONE ELSEWHERE, WE WOULD TYPICALLY SAY, LET'S ELEVATE IT.
AS YOU POINTED OUT, IT'S NOT FEASIBLE TO ELEVATE THIS BUILDING.
SO WHAT WE NORMALLY WOULD DO IS NOT AN OPTION HERE FOR EITHER THE BUYER OR WE WON'T BE, WE WON'T BE ELEVATING ANY BUILDINGS DOWNTOWN EITHER.
SO THERE'S ALTERNATIVES TO ELEVATION WITH REGARD TO FLOODING.
BUT WE HAVE ELEVATED SOME BUILDINGS, CORRECT? I I MEAN, UH, IN THE COMMERCIAL DOWNTOWN.
AND ARE THOSE ALTERNATIVES JUST NON-USE ON THE FIRST FLOOR, CONVERTING FIRST FLOOR TO STORAGE OR PARKING? THAT'S, THAT IS ONE ALTERNATIVE, BUT, BUT NOT ALWAYS.
THERE'S, BUT THE GUIDELINES DON'T ADDRESS WHETHER IT'S COMMERCIAL OR NOT.
IT'S CALLED DRIVE FLOOD PROOFING AND WET FLOOD PROOFING.
UH, AND THEN OPTIONS FOR REHAB.
THE OWNER, THE OWNER, AS I SAID, SOLD IT.
UM, AND I JUST HAVE TO ASK, HAVE THERE BEEN OTHER PEOPLE SEEKING TO BUY THE PROPERTY FROM YOU? NO, SIR.
UM, THE GUIDELINES CALL FOR DEMOLITION FOR INFILL, UM, IT'S NOT REALLY AN INFILL.
IT'S, IT'S A CHANGE OF USE PERHAPS.
UM, YOU'VE DONE THE PHOTOS AND DOCUMENTS THAT ARE REQUIRED.
I BELIEVE YOU'VE CONTACTED THE PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS TO TAKE WHAT THEY WILL TAKE.
UM, SO IT JUST SEEMS TO ME TO BE A PROJECT THAT IS NOT GOING TO FIT NEATLY WITH ANY OF OUR GUIDELINES.
BUT IT, TO ME, THE PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE IN READING THE GUIDELINES AND WHAT THEY'VE PREVENTED PRESENTED AND WHAT I OBSERVED WOULD SAY THAT THE DEMOLITION IS CALLED FOR CHAIRMAN RUSH.
ANY COMMENTS? UM, I AGREE WITH WHAT HE JUST SAID.
AND THE BUILDING WAS FOR SALE, AND THE PREVIOUS OWNER DID NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT.
AND, UM, IT WAS IN THE OPEN MARKET.
ANYBODY COULD HAVE BOUGHT IT, SAVED IT.
UM, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR HOW LONG? A YEAR? A YEAR? SO THERE'S BEEN LOTS OF REVISIONS.
UM, THE COUNTY HAS LISTENED TO OUR REQUESTS, UM, CONSIDER OUR REQUESTS AND MADE ADJUSTMENTS TO OUR REQUESTS, AND ARE REALLY TRYING TO COME UP WITH A WIN-WIN SITUATION.
UM, IT'S VERY DISHEARTENING TO TEAR ANY BUILDING DOWN, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT'S BEEN HERE FOR SO LONG.
BUT WE ALL TOURED THAT BUILDING, AND I ACTUALLY GOT SICK WHEN I WENT IN AND I ACTUALLY HAD TO LEAVE, UM, AND I TOURED IT TWO FLOORS.
UM, THE USE IS, NO ONE'S COME UP WITH A USE FOR IT.
UM, SO I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH JIM SAID THAT WE NEED TO FIND A BETTER USE FOR THE, THE PROPERTY AND MOVE FORWARD.
UM, PARKING LOT IS MAYBE NOT EVERYONE'S BEST USE, BUT IT, UM, IT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE COUNTY NEEDS.
[01:35:01]
TRYING TO MAKE IT, UH, AS ATTRACTIVE AND WITH LANDSCAPING AND OTHER FEATURES THAT REFLECT THE, UM, TEMPLE.AND, UM, I, I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S TIME TO MAKE A VOTE AND DECIDE WHAT WE WANT TO DO.
MR. CHAIR, AFTER THE COUPLE OF COMMENTS? YES.
UM, THE COUPLE OF NOTES, AND, AND I KNOW THAT WE WANNA TALK ABOUT CONSIDERATIONS, BUT, UM, THE, THE THOUGHTS, THE TESTIMONY THAT IT DOESN'T MEET IN THE COUNTY NEEDS, I DON'T FIND THAT VERY PERSUASIVE.
UM, AND I, AND I ALSO DON'T FIND VERY PERSUASIVE THAT IT'S GONNA BE AN EXPENSIVE PROJECT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THE EXPENSE, UM, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT THE COUNTY WOULD FALL UNDER SOME OF THE HARDSHIP, UM, PROVISIONS THAT ARE WITHIN OUR, OUR, OUR STANDARDS.
WHAT I DO FIND MORE PERSUASIVE IS THE INABILITY TO COMPLETE ADAPTIVE REUSE OF, OF THAT STRUCTURE.
UM, THE, THE IDEA THAT THE FIRST FLOOR WOULD BE UNUSABLE SPACE, THAT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE PARKING OR STORAGE OR SOME ALTERNATIVE.
I THINK, UH, JACKING IT UP, ELEVATING IT PROBABLY IS, IS NOT A GOOD OPTION.
UM, THE, THE REQUIREMENT OF, OF PILINGS AND, AND, AND NOT NEEDING CODE ON, UH, STAIRWAYS AND HALLWAYS AND ELEVATORS, I THINK THAT ALL GOES TO THAT ADAPTIVE REUSE.
AND SO I, I THINK THAT IS PERSUASIVE.
ONE OTHER, SOMETHING ELSE I I FIND PERSUASIVE AND SOMETHING THAT HAS COME UP BEFORE IS, UM, THE, THE BUILDING ITSELF, THE, THE MOST OF THE BUILDING, THE WHOLE BACK OF IT IS REALLY VERY NONDESCRIPT AND VERY, VERY MUCH NOT.
UM, IT'S REALLY THAT FRONT PORTION THAT REALLY IS THE, THE SIGNIFICANT PORTION.
AND WHILE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE CITY AND, AND FOR THE COUNTY TO RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT STRUCTURE, UM, AND THE SHRINERS WHO WERE THERE AND BUILT IT AND, AND WHO DID SOME GREAT THINGS THERE, IT REALLY IS NOT THAT WHOLE BUILDING.
AND I THINK SOMETHING THAT RECOGNIZES THE, THE BUILDING THAT WAS THERE, THE BUILDING THAT, UM, THE SHRINERS AND RECOGNIZES ALL OF THAT, YOU CAN DO THAT IN SUCH A WAY WITHOUT, UM, RETAINING THE WHOLE STRUCTURE.
I ALSO FIND, AND NOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT BEFORE, ABOUT TAKING PORTIONS OF THE BUILDING, UH, THE STRUCTURE AND MOVING INTO OTHER PLACES.
I DON'T FIND THAT TO BE PARTICULARLY GREAT EITHER.
I THINK YOU REALLY NEED TO USE THAT LOCATION TO, TO RECOGNIZE THE SIGNIFICANCE.
SO, UM, I, FOR THOSE REASONS AND SOME OF THE, UH, OF WHAT THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS SAY, UM, I'M LEANING TOWARDS, UH, UM, DEMOLITION AS WELL WITH, WITH A PROPER DEVELOPMENT PLAN, OF COURSE.
UH, YOU KNOW, THE HPC HAS BEEN, UH, WORKING THROUGH THIS FOR A NUMBER OF MONTHS, UH, WITH THE APPLICANT.
IN FACT, I REMEMBER, UM, I THINK IT WAS THE VERY, ONE OF THE VERY FIRST MEETINGS I COMMENTED TO DAVID, UH, AT THE DESIGN REVIEW.
I SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S, YOU REALIZE IT'S GONNA TAKE SEVERAL SWINGS FOR US TO GET THERE.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN SWINGING AWAY FOR A NUMBER OF MONTHS TO TRY TO GET THERE.
UM, AND IN LOOKING AT THE, UH, LOOKING AT THE CONSIDERATIONS, THIS IS JUST ONE OF THESE SITUATIONS.
I'VE BEEN ON THE HBC FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, AND THIS WAS TRUMAN FOR FOUR YEARS.
THIS IS JUST ONE OF THESE SITUATIONS THAT IS CERTAINLY AN OUTLIER, UH, DEALING WITH A MASSIVE STRUCTURE LIKE THIS IN A FLOODPLAIN.
THIS JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN VERY OFTEN.
SO IT'S A, IT'S A FAIRLY UNIQUE SITUATION.
UM, ALTHOUGH IT IS A, IT IS LISTED AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, YOU KNOW, I QUESTION WHETHER IT, YOU KNOW, IT REPRESENTS WHAT WE TYPICALLY CONSIDER, UH, NUMEROUS HISTORIC CHARACTER.
I THINK IT'S A PERFECT EXAM OF WHY WE HAVE GUIDELINES TO START WITH, BECAUSE A SIGNIFICANT, UH, 19TH CENTURY VICTORIAN STRUCTURE WAS DEMOLISHED IN ORDER TO PUT SOMETHING IN PLACE THAT REALLY DOESN'T, IT REALLY DOESN'T FIT WITH WHAT WE THINK OF AS NEW, AS NEW BRUIN'S HISTORIC CHARACTER.
AND YES, IT'S BEEN THERE 70 YEARS, UH, AND IT'S, I MEAN, IT'S JUST
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR THIS BODY, UH, TRYING TO DO PRESERVATION TO, UH, TO TRY TO, TO APPROVE DEMOLITION OF SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
UH, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN IN THE STRUCTURE AS WELL.
UH, THE, THE USE AND THE PURPOSE OF THE STRUCTURE, UH, I AGREE DOES NOT, DOES NOT
[01:40:01]
REALLY FIT FOR WHAT, UH, THE COUNT, WHAT THE, UH, WHAT THE APPLICANT IS, IS PROPOSING AS FAR AS WHAT THEY NEED FOR, UH, THAT STRUCTURE.I KNOW IT'S VERY HARD TO DO A ADAPTIVE REUSE ON A, OF A MASSIVE STRUCTURE LIKE THIS WITH A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, UH, USE AND PURPOSE.
AND BEING IN A FLOODPLAIN MAKES IT EVEN MORE COMPLICATED.
UH, THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A MOREISH REVIVAL STYLE.
WELL, WE TYPICALLY THINK IN TERMS OF, UH, NEW BERN'S HISTORIC CHARACTER.
WE THINK IN TERMS OF, UH, GEORGIAN FEDERAL GREEK REVIVAL, VICTORIAN AND QUEEN ANNE CRAFTSMAN, COLONIAL REVIVAL, MID-CENTURY MODERN.
THIS REALLY DOESN'T FIT WITH, WITH WHAT I CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, NEW BERN'S TYPICAL HISTORIC CHARACTER.
IF THE HPC WAS AROUND BACK IN THE FIFTIES, I WOULD BE WILLING TO BET THAT THE SHRINER'S TEMPLE WOULD'VE NEVER BEEN BUILT.
UH, SO YES, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S LOOKING AT THE CONSIDERATIONS.
UH, TO ME, THE, THE, THE BIGGEST THING IS THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE.
UH, I APPRECIATE, I THINK IT WAS WHAT, WHAT DAVID SAID CONCERNING, YOU KNOW, EVEN, EVEN TRYING TO ADD FLOORS AND MAKE MODIFICATIONS TO THAT BUILDING.
I, I LIVE JUST AROUND THE CORNER FROM, UH, THE COUNTY COURTHOUSE, AND I HAVE, I WALK BY THERE ALMOST EVERY DAY, AND I'VE OBSERVED THE AMOUNT OF WORK AND, UH, YOU KNOW, EXTRA STRUCTURAL SUPPORT THAT THEY'VE HAD TO DO TO THAT BUILDING.
I, I CAN SEE THE, I, I UNDERSTAND THE SAME SITUATION WITH THE SHRINERS BUILDING.
SO I JUST, I MEAN, IT'S
IT'S JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN DO IT IN THE FLOODPLAIN JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN THE FLOODPLAIN.
YOU'VE IMMEDIATELY GOT ONE TIRE LEVEL THAT YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH.
SO WHAT DO YOU DO AT THAT POINT? SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE.
WE FIND THE APPLICATION FOR 4 0 3 FRONT STREET TO BE NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEW WEST CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTION, DEMOLITION APPLICATION FOR 4 0 3 SOUTH FRONT STREET TO BE NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEW BERN'S CODE OF ORDINANCE, SECTION 15 4 11 TO 15 429 NEW BERN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT, THE COMMISSION CONSIDERED, NUMBER ONE, THE HISTORIC CULTURAL AND ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STRUCTURE AND DID NOT FIND A, A PREPONDERANCE OF SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE TO RETAIN THE BUILDING CONSIDERATION.
TWO, THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE IS THE BUILDING IS STILL STANDING AS ISSUES AFTER FLOODING.
BUT AGAIN, THE COMMISSION DID NOT FIND THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE TO BE SUFFICIENT TO CONTINUE ITS USE ADDRESS.
THE COMMISSION CONSIDERED ATTEMPTED PRESERVATION EFFORTS, AND THE APPLICANTS HAVE STATED THAT THEY HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN SOME CASES, FINDING OTHER USES FOR PIECES, PARTS, AND, UH, ITEMS IN THE BUILDING AND, UH, THAT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN SEEKING ALTERNATIVES TO DEMOLITION, NOR A DIFFERENT BIO FINDINGS OF FACT.
THE PROJECT IS IN THE WATERFRONT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN TO DEVELOP ONE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE NATIONAL HISTORIC REGISTER DISTRICT AND THE NEW BERN LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
UM, I THINK I'VE COVERED MOST OF THESE THAT ARE LISTED, UH, ON THE APPLICANT.
THE, UH, RECOMMENDATION, UH, NUMBER NINE, PERHAPS.
YEAH, I'M JUST LOOKING THROUGH.
AND THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
[01:45:05]
I'LL SECOND.SO WE HAVE MAY SUGGEST AMENDMENTS TO THAT.
UM, I MIGHT SUGGEST YOU, UH, UH, AT LEAST ADD THE FINDING OF FACT THAT IT IS, UH, NOT INCONGRUOUS.
THAT ONE I THINK HE DID TO DEMOLISH THE BUILDING.
THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE BEGINNING MOTION.
ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE A MOTION TO, UH, TO DEMOLISH.
ANY ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, UH, FROM THE COMMISSION ON THE MOTION? OKAY.
SO, ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, SAY, AYE, I AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? SO, UH, MOTION TO, TO DEMOLISH IS APPROVED.
NOW, THERE IS NO COA THAT'S ISSUED AT THIS POINT.
THIS IS DONE, UM, ONCE A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN IS APPROVED.
SO SHALL WE MOVE TO REDEVELOPMENT? YES.
UH, SO LET'S GO BACK, LET'S GO BACK TO OUR PROCEDURAL MATTERS.
UH, MATT, I BELIEVE YOU PROVIDED, UH, A LITTLE BIT OF, UH, OVERVIEW OF THE REDEVELOPMENT.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH THIS? SO NOW I'LL, UH, CONTINUE WITH MY OKAY.
THE CURRENT PROPOSAL FOR REDEVELOPMENT IS A CONCEPT PLAN.
SOME OF THE DETAILS WERE ADDED TO THE APPLICATION IN AN EMAIL ON FEBRUARY 21ST.
I MENTIONED THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING.
WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE CAREFULLY.
NOW, UM, THE, THE DOOR REPLACEMENT WILL BE A METAL DOOR PAINTED THE SAME COLOR AS THE EXISTING PAINTED DOOR STYLE TO MATCH AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE.
THIS SHOULD PREVENT IN FUTURE WOOD ROT POSSIBILITY.
UH, TWO, THE HEIGHT OF THE NEW WALL WILL BE APPROXIMATELY THREE FEET IN HEIGHT.
THE FINAL HEIGHT MAY VARY DEPENDING ON THE CONSTRUCTION METHOD AND DETAIL.
THREE OF THE MATERIAL FOR ALL.
WHAT, WHAT NEW WALL WAS THIS? THAT'S THE WALL, UH, BEHIND THE STATUE.
AT LEAST THAT'S HOW I UNDERSTAND IT, CORRECT? YES.
THE MATERIAL FOR ALL OF THE CAPS, KEYS AND DOMES WILL BE A WHITE PRECAST CONCRETE MATERIAL.
THIS IS SIMILAR TO THE MATERIAL ON THE ORIGINAL BUILDING.
FOUR, UH, PLANTINGS, UH, WILL BE SELECTED FROM THE CURRENT ZONING AND PLANNING GUIDELINES FOR THE JURISDICTION.
FINAL PLANT SELECTION WILL BE PART OF THE NEW CIVIL DESIGN.
WE WILL CONSIDER ANY SUGGESTIONS THAT ARE ACCEPTABLE TO THE CITY'S ZONING AND PLANTING DEPARTMENT, OR DID YOU MEAN PLANNING? MAYBE? PLANNING? YEAH.
UH, HPC STAFF COMMENT IS, THE PLANTING SHALL ALSO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.
THE GUIDELINES, UH, NUMBER FIVE, LIGHTING WILL BE DESIGNED TO COMPLY WITH THE CURRENT ZONING AND PLANNING GUIDELINES FOR THE JURISDICTION.
FINAL FIXTURES, SELECTION AND LIGHTING LEVELS WILL BE PART OF A NEW CIVIL DESIGN PACKAGE.
WE WILL CONSIDER ANY SUGGESTIONS THAT ARE ACCEPTABLE TO THE CITY'S ZONING AND PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
UH, THE LIGHTING, INCLUDING THE FIXTURES AND THE COLOR OF THE LIGHT EMITTED SHALL ALSO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.
AND THE SAME THING HAPPENS WITH BUFFER AND PLANTINGS.
SO, UM, SO WHAT THAT LEAVES YOU WITH IS THE DETAILS OF THE REDEVELOPMENT REMAINING TO BE SPECIFIED ARE THE PLANTINGS AROUND AND IN THE PARKING LOT, PARKING LOT LIGHTING DESIGN AND LAMPING, AND ALSO THE TREATMENT ALONG THE NORTHERN EDGE OF THE PROPERTY ALONG THE, UH, NEIGHBOR NEIGHBORING HOMES AND SUCH.
BACK THERE, THE DESIGN OF THESE ITEMS COULD BE DIFFICULT TO ENFORCE, IF NOT SPECIFICALLY APPROVED.
UH, SO SOME OF THESE ISSUES AND OTHER ISSUES THAT ARISE, BUT PERHAPS NOT ALL OF THEM CAN BE HANDLED IN THE CONDITIONS OF AN APPROVAL.
BUT THE APPLICANT HAS NOT YET CLEARLY PROPOSED.
SOME OF THESE, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDS HPC CONTINUE THIS HEARING TO ALLOW FOR DISCUSSION OF THESE ELEMENTS OF ISSUES WITH THE APPLICANT IN MORE DETAIL AT A DESIGN REVIEW MEETING, ONCE COMMISSION IS DETERMINED, IT IS READY TO PROCEED WITH THE DELIBERATION.
STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES OR APPROPRIATE TO THIS PORTION OF THE APPLICATION BASED ON THE PLANS AND DESCRIPTIONS PROVIDED AT THE TIME OF THE PREPARATION OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO, POINTS OF HPC POLICY, THE POLICIES AND RULES OF PROCEDURE ADAPTED BY THE THE HPC FOR EVALUATING REDEVELOPMENT PLAN INCLUDE ONLY TWO SENTENCES.
ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION PROPOSED FOR THE SITE WILL BE EVALUATED BASED ON HISTORIC GUIDELINES FOR INFILL CONSTRUCTION.
AND SECOND SENTENCE IS A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.
MUST INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS
[01:50:01]
AS CONDITIONS FOR APPROVAL OF THE REDEVELOPMENT.PLAN, A REVIEW AND PRELIMINARY APPROVAL BY THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR, WHICH WE'VE SEEN.
AND SECOND, A REASONABLE TIMEFRAME FOR COMPLETION OF REDEVELOPMENT, WHICH MAYBE WE HAVEN'T HEARD YET.
UM, THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR AND ZONING ADMINISTRATOR HAVE REVIEWED THE PROPOSED SKETCHES AND HAVE COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND, UH, I JUST STATED TIMELINE FOR COMPLETION OF THE PROJECT HAS NOT YET BEEN PROPOSED.
SO, STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING HISTORIC DISTRICT PRINCIPLES AND DESIGN STANDARDS THAT MAY BE APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION.
LANDSCAPING 2.4 0.347 AND EIGHT.
FENCES AND GARDEN WALLS, 2.5 1, 2, 3, AND FIVE FOR PARKING.
2.7 0.3 AND FIVE FOR SIGNAGE, 2.8 0.1 AND FOUR FOR MASONRY.
5.3 0.13 AND FOUR FOR PAINT, 5.4, 0.23 AND FOUR.
AND CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS 5.2 AND THREE.
THE STATEMENTS OF FACT, BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION ARE, ONE, THE PROPOSED REDEVELOPMENT IS LOCATED IN THE WATERFRONT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
TWO, THE PROJECT IS FOR ALMOST COMPLETE DEMOLITION OF THE BUILDING, BUT RETAINING SEVERAL HISTORIC ELEMENTS, IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SHRINERS MEMORIAL AREA AND EXPANSION OF THE EXISTING PARKING LOT.
THREE, THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.
A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DETAILS AND ITS MATERIALS STILL NEED FURTHER INFORMATION FROM THE APPLICANT.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND SIX, THE ACT THE APPLICATION IS OR IS NOT CONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES.
AS YOU MAY, UM, DISCUSS HERE, UH, IN A FEW MINUTES, THE HPC MAY WANT TO CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS THAT ONE REVISED PLANS ACCORDING TO THE CHANGES AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC AT A SUBSEQUENT HEARING FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES AND PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS DIVISION, THE HPC SHALL DELIBERATE ON THIS SE SEGMENT OF THE PROCESS AND MAKE A MOTION AND DECISION ON THE REDEVELOPMENT BEFORE MAKING A SEPARATE MOTION AND DECISION ON ISSUING ONE COA FOR BOTH DECISIONS.
UM, WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS ON THE REDEVELOPMENT? I THINK MOST OF OUR COMMENTS WERE COVERED IN THE PRIOR PRESENTATION.
WE'RE GLAD TO MAKE THEM AGAIN SINCE THIS IS A SECOND HEARING.
BUT WE WOULD ALSO BE PERFECTLY FINE, UH, WITH Y'ALL ACCEPTING WHAT WE'VE ALREADY PRESENTED PREVIOUSLY.
I'M, I'M, I'M OKAY WITH THAT MR. CHAIR.
ARE THERE ANY PROPONENTS OR OPPONENTS WHO, UH, RECEIVED NOTICE OF THE HEARING? WHO WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT EVIDENCE? OKAY.
UH, ARE THERE OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE STANDING WHO, UH, WHO WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT EVIDENCE? ALRIGHT.
UH, MATT, YOU HAVE, UM, PRESENTED THE STATUS FILINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.
UH, SO I'M GONNA MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE APPLICANT DOESN'T HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS AT THIS POINT.
COMMISSIONERS, UH, COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? ONE THING I'D LIKE CLARIFYING IS THAT IT, IT'S A HISTORIC FENCE.
SO IF IT DOESN'T MEET THE FOUR FEET OF THE SEPARATIONS, WE'RE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
WE WANT THE HISTORIC FENCE TO BE WELL AND IT'S PRE-EXISTING.
BUT THE GUIDELINE THAT WE'RE QUOTING DOES HAVE THAT.
SO QUESTION I HAVE IS THE LANDSCAPING AND LIGHTING PLANS WILL COME BE PRESENTED LATE AT A LATER TIME FOR APPROVAL OF CONDITIONS.
Y YOU CAN MAKE IT A CONDITION IF A MAJORITY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS WOULD LIKE FOR A LIGHTING AND OR LANDSCAPE PLAN TO COME BACK TO YOU ALL.
AND I DO THINK THAT'S BEEN A FAIRLY TYPICAL PLAN OF HOW WE DO BIGGER PROJECTS WHERE THE LIGHTING, LANDSCAPING CAN COME ALONG FOR THE ADMINISTRATOR TO REVIEW.
IF HE DOESN'T LIKE IT, HE CAN BRING IT TO EHPC.
DOES, DOES THE, DOES THE CITY BUILDING INSPECTOR LOOK AT LIGHTING PLANTS FOR PARKING LOTS? I DON'T KNOW.
SO, SO THE LIGHTING PLAN IS, UM, AN HPC FOR PARKING LOTS WITHIN THE HISTORIC PEOPLE ARE ONES THAT ARE, THAT ARE, ARE CONSTRUCTED.
SO MOST OFTEN LIGHTING PLANS ARE THERE TO DEMONSTRATE, UM, HOW MUCH LIGHT IS BEING PROJECTED WHERE.
UM, MOST LIGHTING PLANS, UM, UM, MAY,
[01:55:01]
WELL SOME DO AND SOME DON'T INCLUDE, UM, DEPICTIONS OF THE ACTUAL, UM, POLES AND MM-HMMFOUNDATIONS AND SUCH, UM, UNTIL IT GETS INTO CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS, OBVIOUSLY THEY THAT DO THEN OF COURSE.
UM, BUT, UH, AT THIS STAGE, UH, OFTENTIMES IT'S RELEGATED JUST TO THE LAMP HEAD, UM, IF, IF AT ALL.
UM, SO, BUT IT IS YOUR PURVIEW TO YOU TO REVIEW THE DESIGN OF THE LIGHT STANDARDS, THE POLES, THEIR FOUNDATIONS AND THE LAMP HEADS, UH, ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES, UH, ARE, ARE, I'M SORRY.
AND THEN THE ONLY OTHER THING IS THAT THE LIGHT EMITTED IS SUPPOSED TO, SUPPOSED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S WHITE LIGHT, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY, AND I'M SOMETHING THAT I CAN DO AND I'M SURE YOU WANT TO HAVE TO STAY ON SITE AND NOT, AND NOT TO BLEED OVER INTO THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.
WELL, NO, WE DON'T HAVE STANDARD, WE DON'T HAVE HPC STANDARDS FOR THAT.
AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THE CITY HAS STANDARDS FOR THAT OR NOT.
I SEEN THERE SOME KIND OF LIGHTING IN UNICODE MUNI CODE LIGHTING ORDINANCE ABOUT, WE, WE CERTAINLY REGULATE LIGHTING ON, UM, PUBLIC STREETS AND RIGHT OF WAYS.
UM, BUT I, I THINK WE HAVE OUR ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES HERE.
I, I DON'T KNOW IF HE WOULD KNOW RIGHT OFFHAND IF WE HAVE A LIGHTING REQUIREMENT FOR PRIVATE PROPERTY OR INDIVIDUAL PARCELS THAT ARE NOT A PART OF THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY AND HE HAS BEEN SWORN IN, RIGHT? MM-HMM
EVENING BOARD, UH, SO FOR LIGHTING AND SUCH, SUCH AS BLEED OVER INTO ADJACENT PROPERTIES AND THINGS THAT MIGHT BE A NUISANCE.
THAT WOULD BE THE PURVIEW OF OUR NUISANCE ABATEMENT AS WELL AS HPC ENFORCEMENT.
UH, WE DO REVIEW THINGS SUCH AS LIGHTING THAT DO COME INTO PLAY.
HOWEVER, UH, OUR LIGHTING STANDARDS DO NOT INCLUDE THAT.
IT IS HOWEVER COVERED AS A NUISANCE.
SO, BUT THAT'S KIND OF AN AFTER THE FACT, A NUISANCE, IT'S NOT IT.
AND THAT FEEDBACK COULD BE PRESENTED TO THE COUNTY WHEN THEY DO PRESENT THOSE DESIGNS THAT THIS SHOULD NOT BLEED INTO ADJACENT PROPERTIES CAUSING A NUISANCE.
UH, AND IF IT DOES, THEN WE WOULD ENFORCE THAT.
WHILE YOU'RE UP, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT, UM, SO, UM, WHEN ON THE DESIGNS FOR PARKING LOTS WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE, THERE ARE ISLANDS OF GREEN OR, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT, UM, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT OR THE DEVELOPMENTS SERVICES DEPARTMENT TAKES A LOOK AT WHEN PLANS COME IN OR IS THAT AN HPC TYPE OF THING? DUE TO ITS NATURE IN THE HPC, THE, UH, HPC ADMINISTRATOR WOULD LIKELY TAKE LEAD.
UH, WE DO HAVE OUR OWN PARKING STANDARDS AS WELL.
UH, ANYTHING ON TOP OF THOSE STANDARDS THAT THE HPC MIGHT HAVE WOULD PREVAIL? WOULD, WOULD, WOULD THE UNDERLYING STATUTE OR STANDARDS BE THE, THE CITIES THAT THE HPC WOULD LIE ON TOP OF OR CORRECT.
SO THERE IS A REQUIREMENT TO FOLLOW THE, THE CITY CORRECT.
STANDARDS FOR PARKING LOT LAYOUT, INGRESS, EGRESS, HOW MANY SPOTS, HOW MUCH GREEN, THAT KIND OF THING? CORRECT.
AND THEN YOU ONLY HAVE THE, THE, UM, LANDSCAPING ONES THAT I'VE MENTIONED HERE ON THE, ON THE SCREEN AT THE MOMENT.
UH, YOU GUYS, UM, UM, REGULATE THE TYPES OF PLANTS AND SUCH, NOT NECESSARILY THE LAYOUT.
NOW, IN, IN OTHER THINGS, JIM, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT IN OTHER PROJECTS, UH, THE, THE COMMISSION HAS GIVEN THAT RESPONSIBILITY TO THE ADMINISTRATOR TO DO, UNLESS THE ADMINISTRATOR FINDS THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT NEED TO COME TO OUR ATTENTION AND IT, IT LETS US USE THE CITY'S EXPERTISE FOR THINGS WERE NOT AS FIRST ON PERHAPS LET THEM REVIEW AND COME BACK TO US.
YOU'RE NOT A PARKING LOT EXPERT.
MR. MR. MORRISON, IT'S IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE FACT THAT, UH, LIGHTING, INSTALLATION AND LANDSCAPING ARE BOTH ON THE MINOR WORKS LIST.
WHAT ARE BOTH ON THE MINOR WORKS LIST? OKAY.
I, I WOULD JUST, I'M JUST CONCERNED BECAUSE THIS IS SUCH A SIGNIFICANT PROPERTY, IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE THRESHOLD TO DOWNTOWN NEW, BUT IT'S ONE OF THE CORRIDORS GATE RIGHT THERE ON THE CORNER.
UM, AND I THINK WE SHOULD HOLD THE LIGHTING AND THE, UM, LANDSCAPING TO A HIGHER DEGREE IF WE CAN BECAUSE IT'S JUST GONNA MAKE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY AND GREEN SPACE AND LIGHTING CAN ENHANCE THE AREA AND BE MORE, BE USED BY THE PUBLIC AND ENJOY IT IF IT'S A VERY NICE SLICE.
UH, YEAH, EVEN LANDSCAPE PLAN, EVEN POLE, JUST A BASIC, EVEN THE POLES WHAT THEY LOOK
[02:00:01]
LIKE AND THEY HAD SOME THINGS.YEAH, JUST A BASIC PARKING LOT LANDSCAPE.
SO I'D LIKE TO HOLD IT TO THE HIGHEST STANDARD AND THAT'S WHY I'D LIKE IT TO COME BACK TO HPC SO THAT WE CAN HAVE INPUT ON THAT.
AND THAT'S, UM, THAT'S ONE OF THE COMPELLING THINGS I SEE IN, UH, THE STAFF FINDINGS IS THAT WE HAVE, UH, CONCEPTUAL, UH, LAYOUT DRAWINGS, UH, BUT NOT A WHOLE LOT OF DETAIL AND JUST, YOU KNOW, TO BE TRYING TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE WAY THAT WE TYPICALLY PROCESS THROUGH THESE THINGS.
YOU KNOW, WE NEED A LEVEL OF, OF, UH, DETAIL THAT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE YET.
I DID NOT SEE IT, UH, IN THE PACKAGE.
AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT YOU GUYS ARE, ARE, ARE TALKING ABOUT AND AROUND, CORRECT? CORRECT.
YEAH, I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE DETAILS.
UM, DOES THE APPLICANT OR MEMBERS HERE, ANY, ANY COMMENTS ON THAT QUICK QUESTION AGAIN, UM, AS A MOVE TO DESIGN ON THE SITE, THE HIGHER LEVEL OF STANDARD AND THE ZONING TASK, SPECIFIC LANGUAGE IN THEIR VIDEO AND ZONING, IS THERE SOMETHING IN THE HBC GUIDELINES WE'RE CALL THE HIGHER LEVEL OF STANDARD.
WHEN I TURN TO ENGINEERS LANDSCAPE DECK, THEY'RE ASK, WE HAVE THESE FOUR GUIDELINES THAT ARE LISTED IN THE, UH, REPORT.
THANK YOU, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN AND BOARD, UM, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING THE PROCESS GOING FORWARD, UH, CERTAINLY WE RESPECT THE BOARD'S, UM, INTEREST IN THE LANDSCAPING AND THE LIGHTING PLANS AND THE DETAILS IF THERE'S A POSSIBILITY, UH, OF APPROVING, I THINK WE HAD MENTIONED EARLIER, APPROVING, UM, THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN SUBJECT TO THOSE ELEMENTS COMING BACK TO THE BOARD.
UM, MY IMPRESSION IS ALL THOSE WILL HAVE TO BE WRAPPED INTO THE, SOME OF THE SPECIFIC ZONING REQUIREMENTS, A MORE DETAILED SITE PLAN IF YOU WILL.
UM, IF WE COULD DO THAT, I THINK WE WOULD BE PRETTY, UH, COMFORTABLE WITH, UM, THE POSTURE MOVING FORWARD.
I GUESS I'M WONDERING, COULD WE HAVE A CONDITION THAT THE APPLICANT CAME BACK FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE COA DETAILING? LANDSCAPING LIGHTING? AND DO YOU HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THE NORTH BOUNDARY? I KNOW WE BRIEFLY TALKED ABOUT THAT ONE TIME, WHAT YOU WERE GONNA DO.
OUR ISSUE WITH THAT BOUNDARY IS WHO OWNS IT? WE, WE STILL HAVE THAT ISSUE.
WE'RE NOT SURE THERE'S A FENCE THERE RIGHT NOW AND, AND I THINK, UH, PART OF A WALL, WE'RE NOT SURE IF THAT'S OURS OR IF IT BELONGS TO THE NEIGHBORS ON NEW STREET.
BUT YES, I THINK, UH, COA WITH SOME CONDITIONS WITH THE, UM, DIRECTION THAT WE WOULD AMEND IT TO PROVIDE THAT DETAIL, I THINK THAT GETS US TO THE EXACT SAME PLACE THAT I'M PROPOSING.
SO, BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO AMEND COAS THAT HAVE BEEN ISSUED, THAT'S CORRECT.
COUNSEL, HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT THAT? THAT'S PERFECTLY CONSISTENT WITH OUR RULES AND REGULATIONS AND GUIDELINES.
OKAY, WELL LET'S GIVE IT A TRY.
ALRIGHT, CHAIRMAN, I MOVE TO FIND THE APPLICATION FOR REDEVELOPMENT AT 4 0 3 EAST FRONT STREET TO THE NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEW BERN'S CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTION 15 4 11 TO 15 429 AND NEW BURN'S.
HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT GUIDELINES ARE LANDSCAPING, FENCES AND GAR, EXCUSE ME, 2.4, 0.347 AND EIGHT FENCES AND GARDEN WALLS, 2.5 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND FIVE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HEIGHT ON THE HISTORIC FENCE.
PARKING 2.7 0.3 AND FIVE, SIGNAGE, 2.8 0.1 AND FOUR, MASONRY, 5.1, 0.12 AND FIVE.
METALS, 5.3 0.13 AND FOUR, PAINT, 5.4, 0.23 AND FOUR.
CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, 5, 1, 2 AND THREE FINDINGS OF PACK.
THE PRO FACT THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT IS LOCATED IN THE WATERFRONT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
THE PROJECT IS FOR ALMOST COMPLETE DEMOLITION OF THE EXISTING BUILDING, BUT RETAINING SEVERAL HISTORIC ELEMENTS, IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SHRINES MEMORIAL AREA AND EXPANSION OF THE EXISTING PARKING LOT.
THREE, THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES AND DESIGN STANDARDS.
[02:05:01]
FOUR, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DETAILS AND MATERIALS NEED FURTHER INFORMATION FROM THE APPLICANT THAT CAN BE DEALT WITH AS AN AMENDED TO THIS COA AND THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND THE APPLICATION IS NOT IN CONGRESS WITH THE GUIDELINES.THE CONDITION WOULD BE THAT THE APPLICANT WILL RETURN TO A HEARING WITH A PROPOSED AMENDMENT DETAILING, LANDSCAPING AND LIGHTING AND IF FEASIBLE, UH, ADDRESSING THE SOLUTION OF THE NORTHERN PROPERTY LINE.
AND THEN ALSO DO YOU HAVE A TIMELINE FOR COMPLETION? THAT'S ONE OF REQUIREMENTS.
MAYBE HAVE THAT IN THE AMENDMENT AS WELL.
DOES THAT COVER EVERYTHING MR. CHAIR? I THINK SO.
UM, UNLESS STAFF, STAFF THAT COVER EVERYTHING, MATT? YEP.
ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE A MOTION, WE HAVE A SECOND.
ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? OTHER? WE, WE APPRECIATE ALL YOUR HARD WORK.
SO, SO THAT SUBMITTAL FOR LANDSCAPING AND LIGHTING IN THAT NORTH PROPERTY LINE THAT WILL GO TO YOU, MATT, FOR EVALUATION OR WILL JUST COME BACK HERE AS AN AMENDMENT HERE? THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR IS FOR IT TO COME BACK TO THE FULL BOARD.
AND AMENDMENTS TYPICALLY HERE.
THERE'S NO TIME CERTAIN ON THAT.
IF, IF ONE IS ISSUED TONIGHT ARE GOOD FOR A YEAR.
UM, IT CAN BE EXTENDED, BUT THE EXPECTATION WOULD BE THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD COME BACK AS SOON AS PRACTICAL.
ANYTHING ELSE? ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE A MOTION.
EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS WHAT THE MOTION IS? NO QUESTIONS ON THAT.
ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, SAY AYE.
ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE APPROVED DEMOLITION, WE HAVE APPROVED, UH, A DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
UM, SO WE NEED A MOTION TO ISSUE, CORRECT TO ISSUE, UH, THE DEMOLITION AS WELL AS THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.
I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UH, DO A COA OF THE, UH, DEMOLITION AND THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN WITH THE CONDITION WITH THE CONDITION STATED OF LANDSCAPING AND LIGHTING.
ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE? OKAY.
SO ALL IN FAVOR OF ISSUING THE COA FOR DEMO, FOR DEMOLITION AND REDEVELOPMENT, SAY AYE.
AS, AS A SIDE, AND I'M SURE IT WAS OUT OF ORDER, BUT IT, IT WOULD'VE BEEN GOOD TO HAVE HEARD RICHARD'S OPINIONS ON THIS.
I WOULD'VE ENJOYED HIS HEARING WHAT IT WAS.
UM, I THINK THAT'S JUST AN UNFORTUNATE, UH, NOT RIGHT.
SO WE ARE DOWN TO THE LAST BUT NOT
[5.E. 311 Avenue C – to include demolition of the 1-story house and redevelopment with a 1-story infill house.]
LEAST, UH, APPLICATION FOR THE NIGHT, WHICH IS THREE 11 AVENUE C.UH, MATT, WOULD YOU LIKE AND WE, WE YEP, WE DO HAVE THE APPLICANT HERE, YES.
SO MATT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PROVIDE A, AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROJECT? SURE.
HERE IS THE APPLICATION FOR THE, UM, PROJECT AT THREE 11 AVENUE C.
PROPERTY OWNER IS WANDA DAVIS AND THE APPLICANT'S
[02:10:01]
NAME OPPORTUNITIES INDUSTRIALIZATION CENTER, INC.UM, THEY ARE ALSO THEIR THE OWNER'S AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE.
WE HAVE A DESCRIPTION OF WORK, DEMOLITION AND NEW CONSTRUCTION AND THE, UH, SEVERAL OF THE GUIDELINES, UM, AND ALSO TO REP REFER TO THE PLANS FOR THE MATERIALS.
SO THEY'VE PROVIDED PHOTOGRAPHS AND THEY'RE ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE OWNER.
AND THIS IS A SIGNATURE AND DATE FOR THE AUTHORIZED, UH, REPRESENTATIVE, AND THIS IS THE FORM FOR THAT.
UM, OPPORTUNITIES INDUSTRIALIZATION CENTER, INC.
AND MS. DAVIS'S SIGNATURE AND NO NOTARIZED SIGNATURE.
SO, UM, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS WE NEED TO DO FOR THIS IS, UM, CLARIFY, UH, THE DATE OF CONSTRUCTION, UH, AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT AFFECTS ITS, UH, STANDING AS A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE, WHICH IS IN THE, UM, UH, NATIONAL REGISTER.
UM, UH, ESSENTIALLY TO CLARIFY IF THE NATIONAL REGISTER LISTINGS CORRECT OR NOT.
SO, UH, I FOUND THAT, UH, THE 1924 SANDBORN MAP, UH, SHOWS A HOUSE ON THAT SITE AND YOU SEE, UH, CIRCLED HERE IN RED.
UM, BUT NOTE THAT IT INDICATES THAT IT IS A TWO STORY STRUCTURE WITH A PORCH ON THE FRONT, RELATIVELY SMALL BUILDING, ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO THE OTHER ONE ON THE CORNER WITH A SMALL REAR WING ON THE BACK AND A SMALL SIDE PORCH IN THAT LITTLE ELBOW SPOT, THE INSIDE ELBOW.
AND THAT'S HERE, UH, SHOWN HERE.
PLUS, UM, THE ZERO THAT'S THERE INDICATES THAT IT IS A SLATE OR TIN ROOF.
A D REPRESENTS, IT'S A DWELLING.
AND THEN THE ADDITION ON THE BACK IS A ONE STORY, UM, ADDITION WITH, UH, SLATE OR TIN ROOF.
THEN, UH, SORRY, THEN, UH, IN THE 1958 REVISION TO THE 1931 MAP SHOWS IN 1958, UH, THE HOUSE IS STILL TWO STORIES WITH A ONE STORY PORCH ON THE FRONT, A ONE STORY ADDITION ON THE BACK.
ESSENTIALLY THE SAME APPEARS TO BE THE SAME BUILDING.
HOWEVER, THE 1988 RIVERSIDE NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT INVENTORY INDICATES THE HOUSE OF THREE 11 C STREET WAS BUILT CIRCA 1920.
UM, IT DID, UH, DECLARE IT TO BE NON-CONTRIBUTING BECAUSE, UH, UH, BUT IT ALSO INDICATED IT'S A ONE STORY FRAME, GABLE ROOFED HOUSE WITH ASBESTOS SIDING, REPLACEMENT FRONT PORCH WITH CONCRETE DECK AND WROUGHT IRON COLUMNS.
AND HERE WE SEE A PICTURE OF IT.
IT'S ONE STORY WAS A CHANGE FROM TWO STORIES TO ONE STORY.
WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH OF A CHANGE TO HAVE MADE IT, UM, UH, NO LONGER CONTRIBUTING AS IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN IF IT WERE BUILT IN 1920? BUT I THINK THE NORTH CAR, UH, THE NON-CONTRIBUTING STATUS HERE MAY BE, UH, ATTRIBUTED TO THE FACT THAT IT HAS ASBESTOS SIDING AND REPLACEMENT FRONT PORCH, UH, WITH THESE ROT IRON COLUMNS.
UM, THE CRAVEN COUNTY INFORMATION INDICATES THAT IT WAS BUILT IN 1940, UH, WHICH WE CAN SEE THAT WAS WRONG SINCE IN 1958.
SO, UM, THAT'S SOME OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE'LL HAVE TO ESTABLISH WHEN WE GET TO THE DISCUSSION.
UM, BUT, UH, IT SEEMS THAT THIS BUILDING REMAINS, UH, NON-CONTRIBUTING AS ACCORDING TO THE INVENTORY, DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT'S, UH, CONSTRUCTION DATE IS WILDLY WRONG OR SEEMS TO BE WILDLY WRONG.
ALL RIGHT, SO NOW THE, UH, WE'LL MOVE TO PHOTOGRAPHS PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT.
SO THIS IS THE HOUSE TODAY, OR AT LEAST IN 5 22 20 23.
UM, AND, UH, SI FORM OBLIQUE VIEW HERE AND FROM THE OTHER SIDE AND HERE FROM, UH, FROM MORE OF THE FRONT AND THE SIDEWALK AREA, FRONT YARD AREA, STANDING BACK A BIT
[02:15:01]
STRAIGHT ON FROM THE FRONT.UH, THEY ALSO PROVIDED, UH, SOME EVIDENCE OF THE DAMAGE THAT WAS DONE OR, OR EXISTS OR EXISTED IN 2023 WITH RELATIVE TO ITS FOUNDATION.
SOME OF IT LOOKS LIKE MEANING OUT, UM, GOES SMALLER HERE.
UM, HERE, UH, OVER A, UH, DOORWAY FRAME, THERE'S A CRACK IN THE WALL HERE.
THE, UH, FLOOR IS SEPARATING BELOW THE DOORWAY HERE, CREATING A GAP.
UH, AND THERE'S EVEN, UH, PLANTS GROWING IN THROUGH THE WALL.
UH, THE DOOR HAS A GAP AT THE TOP NEAR THE HINGE, UH, INDICATING SOME RACKING OF THE BUILDING.
UH, THE CORNERS OF THE WALLS ARE, UM, ALSO CRU CRU.
UM, WHAT, UH, SHIFTING RELATIVE TO EACH OTHER.
UH, THERE'S ANOTHER CRACK HERE BELOW THIS WINDOW.
UM, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT'S SHOWING US.
UM, MAYBE, UH, THIS LITTLE TIPPING OF THIS, UH, PORTION OF THE WALL TIPPING OUT AND ANOTHER SHOT OF THE FRONT, THE SIDE.
THIS FINALLY IS, UH, I THINK THE ONE SHOT OF THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.
AND HERE YOU CAN SEE THAT THIS ADDITION IS MUCH LONGER THAN WAS INDICATED IN THE SANBORN MAPS.
SO, UH, THEY ALSO PROVIDED AN ELEVATION CERTIFICATE, UH, BECAUSE, UH, IT IS IN THE FLOODPLAIN AND, UH, ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION WOULD NEED TO BE, UH, BUILT WITH THE FIRST FLOOR AND, OR ITS ANY INSULATION OR MECHANICAL DUCT WORK, UH, ABOVE THE BASE BLOOD ELEVATION PLUS THE TWO FOOT FREEBOARD.
UH, AND SO, UM, THE SECOND PAGE IS THE ONE THAT SHOWS US WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING.
SO THEY'RE PROPOSING THAT THE, UM, TOP OF THE BOTTOM FLOOR, SO THE FIRST FLOOR OF THEIR PROPOSED BUILDING WILL BE AT 12 FEET ABOVE SEA LEVEL, NAVD 1988.
UM, AND THEN ALSO OF INTEREST TO US IS, UH, WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF HOW FAR ABOVE GROUND IT IS.
UM, THE LOWEST ADJACENT GRADE NEXT TO THE BUILDING IS 8.5 FEET ABOVE C LEVEL.
SO THAT'S, UH, UH, ONE AND A HALF FEET, SORRY, UH, THREE AND A HALF FEET OF, UH, DISTANCE.
UH, THE HIGHEST BIT BEING 9.1 FEET ABOVE SEA LEVEL.
ALRIGHT? AND THIS IS THEIR PROPOSED SITE PLAN, UH, WITH, UH, SETBACKS OF 12 FEET AND 25 FEET TO THE RAMP, LET ALONE THE HOUSE.
UH, 54 FEET TO THE REAR AND 24.3 FEET TO THE FRONT.
UM, WHERE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THOSE SIDE YARDS ARE FIVE FEET, THE REAR IS SIX.
AND THE, UM, THE FRONT SETBACK IS BASED ON THE RANGE OF WHAT THE OTHER HOUSES ARE ON THE BLOCK, WHICH HAPPENED TO BE 16.5 FEET IS THE CLOSEST ONE.
AND 24.5 FEET IS THE FARTHEST ONE.
SO AT LEAST THE FRONT EDGE OF THE STEPS ARE AT THE, UH, WITHIN THE CORRECT DISTANCE.
HOWEVER, IT SHOULD BE MEASURED TO THE BUILDING.
SO THE ACTUAL BUILDING WILL NEED TO MOVE FORWARD A LITTLE BIT.
UM, THIS IS A RENDITION OF WHAT THE HOUSE DESIGN, UH, WILL LOOK LIKE OR IS PROPOSED TO BE.
UM, WITH A FRONT PORCH ON THE LEFT, UM, GABLE ON THE, UH, ON THE RIGHT WING.
AND THEN THE ENTIRE, UH, HOUSE HAS A GABLE ROOF.
DOES THAT SHOW THE PROPER ELEVATION? IS, IS THAT THE SCALE? YES, THIS HAS BEEN CORRECTED.
[02:20:01]
ALSO SEE THE ROOF PLAN HERE.UM, THE, IT'S HARD TO SEE, BUT THE, UH, PORCH IS THIS PORTION HERE WITH THE HIP ON THE EDGE HERE, BUT, AND YOU CAN HARDLY SEE THE, UH, THE VALLEY FOR THE, UH, FOR THAT FRONT GABLE ON THE, UH, ON THAT FRONT PORTION.
AND YOU CAN'T HARDLY SEE THE RIDGE FOR THE ACTUAL ROOF ITSELF.
UM, IT COULD BE THE, UM, UH, RESOLUTION OF OUR COMPUTERS HERE.
SO THEN THIS IS A PLAN IF WE NEED TO REFER TO THAT.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS TO NOTE IS THAT THERE, UM, IS A BACK STAIRWAY HERE, UM, WHICH WE'LL SEE ALSO IN A MINUTE WITH THE ELEVATIONS.
UM, ALRIGHT, SO HERE WE HAVE ON THE LEFT IS THEN, UM, THE SIDE ELEVATION, WHICH WOULD BE THE LEFT ELEVATION.
AND SO THE FRONT STEPS ARE ON THE RIGHT AND THE PORCH, FRONT PORCH.
AND THEN THE REAR PORCH IS HERE ON THE LEFT.
UH, THIS DOOR IS A, UH, STORAGE DOOR BEHIND THE STEPS.
UM, YOU CAN SEE VERTICAL WINDOWS.
UM, THIS IS A, A HIP ROOF ON THIS, UH, PROJECTION HERE, UH, WE HAVE BRICK VENEER FOUNDATION.
WE HAVE A WATER TABLE DRIP CAP OR A SKIRT BOARD THAT IS EIGHT INCH WIDE.
UM, THE OTHER TRIM IS SHOWN HERE.
LET ME MAKE IT BIGGER 'CAUSE I CAN'T EVEN READ IT.
UH, SO THE CORNER BOARDS ARE FOUR INCHES WIDE.
UH, IT IS, UH, LAP SIDING WITH A SEVEN INCH, UM, EXPOSURE.
UH, THEN THE FASCIA BOARDS ARE SIX INCHES, WHICH WE DON'T SEE IN THIS ELEVATION.
UM, AND I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER THINGS 0.0 PRESS.
UM, UH, THE WOOD IS, UH, THE WOOD RAILING IS PRESSURE TREATED AND PAINTED.
UM, THE COLUMN THAT'S HERE GETS A FIBER CEMENT WRAP.
OH, AND THE SIDING IS ALL FIBER CEMENT, UH, SIDING.
THE, UH, ROOFING IS, UH, THE ARC ASPHALT SHINGLES AND THEY HAVE A CONTINUOUS RIDGE VENT FOR THAT.
AND, AND THIS IS THE SIDE WHERE THE, UH, RAMP WOULD BE AS WELL? YES.
WHICH IS NOT SHOWN ANYWHERE, I DON'T THINK.
UH, EXTERIOR LIGHT FIXTURES SHOWN HERE AT THE, UH, ON THE FRONT PORCH.
ALRIGHT, SO LET'S MOVE TO THE NEXT ELEVATION.
UM, IT'S THIS ONE HERE, UH, WHICH IS THE REAR ELEVATION.
SO THESE ARE THE REAR STEPS AND THE REAR DOOR.
UH, WE HAVE, UH, VERTICAL WINDOWS ON THIS.
UH, THE DOWNSPOUTS AND GUTTERS ARE ALUMINUM, UM, WHICH IS, UH, METAL MATERIAL.
UH, THEN WE HAVE FOR THE TRIM AROUND THE WINDOW, UH, THE SIDE AND THE, AND THE SILL AREA IS, UH, FOUR INCH, WHEREAS THE HEADER IS SIX INCH.
UH, THE, THE TRIM ACROSS THE TOP OF THE WALL HERE IS SIX INCH.
AND THE GABLES HAVE THIS, UM, UH, SHINGLE STYLE OR SHINGLE APPEARANCE, UH, FOR THE, UH, FIBER CEMENT SIDING.
UM, THE VENTS ARE ALSO, UM, UH, 16 INCH DIAMETER GABLE VENT WITH A FOUR INCH TRIM.
UH, WE ALSO HAVE AN EXTERIOR LIGHT HERE AT THE REAR DOOR.
UM, EVERYTHING ELSE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT.
SO LET'S MOVE TO THE NEXT PAGE.
THE NEXT ELEVATION IS NOW BEING THE FRONT.
AND SO HERE WE SEE THE SAME, UH, ALL THOSE SAME MATERIALS ON THE FRONT AS WELL.
UM, THE DOOR IS NOT CALLED OUT, UM, IN THIS VIEW.
LET'S SEE, ANYTHING ELSE? DON'T SEE ANYTHING ELSE TO POINT OUT.
WELL NOW WE SEE ON THE, ON THE GABLE END, WE SEE THE FASCIA BOARDS, UM, WHAT SIZE THEY ARE.
THIS ONE'S A SIX INCH FASCIA BOARD.
IS THAT A FIBERGLASS DOOR? I DON'T KNOW.
[02:25:01]
WE CAN, WE CAN ASK IN A MINUTE 'CAUSE HE'LL NEED TO COME TO THE MICROPHONE TO ANSWER.UM, AND THEN THIS IS THE OTHER, THE FOURTH SIDE OUT OF ALL OF THEM, UM, THIS WOULD BE THE, UH, LEFT SIDE, OR I MEAN, SORRY, THE RIGHT SIDE.
UM, I GUESS THAT IS THE WEST SIDE SIDE.
AND I DON'T SEE ANYTHING NEW OTHER THAN WE DO SEE, WE HAVE THREE WINDOWS HERE, UH, AND THEY'RE ALL VERTICAL.
WE HAVE SOME DETAILS IF YOU NEED TO SEE THOSE.
NO, THAT'S ON THE DIFFERENT PAGE.
ALRIGHT, SO SOME MORE DETAILS? NO.
SO, UM, I THOUGHT YOU HAD A, UM, A HANDRAIL DETAIL IN HERE.
MAYBE I MISSED IT ON ANOTHER PAGE.
UM, OKAY, SO HERE WE HAVE, WE SHOW THE, UH, HANDRAIL IS, UH, UH, HAS THE, UH, THE INDIVIDUAL SPINDLES OR BALLISTERS, UM, CENTERED UNDERNEATH THE, THE HAND GRIP ITSELF.
UH, AND THEN IT'S ALSO, UH, CENTERED ON THE BOTTOM PORTION OF THE, UH, RAILING.
UH, THIS IS ALSO SHOWN TO BE PRESSURE TREATED.
UH, THE SPINDLES ARE TWO BY TWOS, UM, AND EVERYTHING IS PAINTED.
EVEN THE, THE HANDRAIL AND EVERYTH, ALL THE DIFFERENT PARTS ARE ALL PAINTED.
UM, THE SPACING IS FIVE INCHES ON CENTER, WHICH, UM, COULD BE A HALF AN INCH TOO, TOO BIT, TOO MUCH FOR, UH, TWO BY TWOS, WHICH ARE REALLY ONE AND A HALF BY ONE AND A HALF.
I WAS JUST GETTING TO THE STRUCTURAL DRAWINGS, WHICH WE AREN'T TOO WORRIED ABOUT.
UM, SO EXCEPT MAYBE THE FOUNDATION, UM, DOES SHOW, UH, SEVERAL, UM, OH, BLOOD BRAIN FREEZE, UM, FLOOD OPENINGS.
UM, SO, UH, WE WANT TO, UH, PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE SINCE WE DO HAVE A GUIDELINE FOR THAT HERE.
IT DOES SHOW THE, UM, THE RAMP ATTACHING HERE TO THE SIDE OF THE PORCH, THIS BEING THE PORCH HERE.
AND THEN, UH, THESE ARE DETAILS OF THE STAIRS FOUNDATIONS.
AND THIS IS, UH, FOR THE RAMP.
NOW WE SEE THE DRAWINGS FOR THE RAMP.
UM, UH, IT DOES SHOW AN INAPPROPRIATE, UM, HANDRAIL FOR THAT, SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS CARRIES OVER FROM THE PREVIOUS OR THE OTHER DETAIL.
BUT THAT WAS JUST THE ENGINEER.
SO WE NEED THIS TO CHANGE TO THE OTHER ONE.
SO IT SHOWS MECHANICAL UNITS IN THE ATTIC, WHICH IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THAT MEANS IT IS NOT ON A PLATFORM, UH, OUTSIDE, THAT'S THE AIR HANDLER AND IT'S NOT OUTSIDE.
IT'S ALSO NOT UNDERNEATH THE HOUSE.
SO THE ONE THING HERE IS, UM, THAT THE, UH, HEAT PUMP, UH, PORTION OF THE HEATING AND AIR CONDITIONING IS, UH, IS
[02:30:01]
BEHIND THE REAR WALL.UH, WE MIGHT ASK 'EM TO MOVE IT A LITTLE FARTHER AWAY SO IT'S NOT VISIBLE FROM THE STREET AT ALL TO AVOID HAVING TO DO ANY SCREENING.
AND THERE WON'T BE ANY DUCT WORK UNDER HERE EITHER.
THIS IS THE DUCT WORK IN THE ATTIC, UH, FEEDING INTO, UH, CEILING REGISTERS.
THERE'S THE HEAT PUMP AGAIN, BUT NOW THIS IS THE ELECTRICAL, UM, DIAGRAM.
UH, NOT MUCH OF A CONCERN FOR US.
UM, HOWEVER, THE METER BASE, UM, DOES HAVE TO BE ABOVE THE, UM, FREEBOARD.
AND SO, UH, SOMETIMES THAT RESULTS IN A PLATFORM, WHICH, UM, THIS IS A LETTER FROM THE, UH, NEW BERN ELECTRICAL DEPARTMENT REGARDING, UH, HEIGHT OF THE METER BASE, THE ACTUAL ELECTRICAL METER.
UM, SO THEN, UH, FOR THE ZONING AND INSPECTIONS REVIEW, UM, MAKE THIS BIGGER, SORRY.
THE, UH, ZONING ADMINISTRATOR INDICATES THAT A ZONING PERMIT IS REQUIRED AND REVISED SITE PLAN, UH, NEEDED PRIOR TO ZONING APPROVAL.
AND THEN, UH, THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR SAYS, OF COURSE, THIS WILL REQUIRE A BUILDING PERMIT FOR BOTH DEMOLITION AND BUILDING PERMITS ARE REQUIRED.
SO WHEN YOU'RE READY, I HAVE THE, UH, STAFF REPORT AVAILABLE.
WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO, UH, PRESENT ANYTHING, MAKE ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS? UH, I THINK WE'VE ALL BEEN, YEP.
CAN YOU TALK TO THE MICROPHONE? SORRY.
AND YOU WERE SWORN IN AT THE BEGINNING, CORRECT? YES, YES.
UH, I THINK EVERYTHING WAS, WAS PRESENTED IN THE PRESENTATION.
ARE THERE ANY PROPONENTS, UH, OR OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVED NOTICE? WHO WOULD LIKE TO, UH, PRESENT ANYTHING? OKAY.
WAIT, YOU MEAN IF THEY RECEIVED A LETTER? YES, I'M SORRY.
IF YOU RECEIVED NOTICE, DID, IF YOU RECEIVED A LETTER? YEP.
UH, ARE THERE OTHERS, UH, WHO CAN JUSTIFY THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION? OKAY.
AND MR. CHAIR, I, WE MAY NEED TO SWEAR HER IN.
HAVE YOU BEEN SWORN IN EARLIER? NO, BUT OKAY.
YOU WILL, IF TO, TO SPEAK YOU'LL NEED TO BE SWORN IN.
WHAT CAN, CAN WE DETERMINE, WE, WE DETERMINE STANDING FIRST.
DID YOU RECEIVE A LETTER, MA'AM? YES.
ALRIGHT, SO IF YOU'LL RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, UH, DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND PRO, PROVIDE HONEST ANSWERS, UH, PROVIDE HONEST TESTIMONY AND ANSWERS TO ANY QUESTIONS DIRECTED TO YOU? YES.
AND THERE IS A SHEET UP THERE IF YOU COULD SIGN THAT OR PRINT YOUR NAME, PLEASE.
AND IF YOU WILL STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS.
AND OUR ONLY CONCERNS, WELL, WE HAVE A FEW CONCERNS.
CAN YOU PLEASE SPEAK UP AND SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE? IT'S BEING RECORDED.
I'M JUST SAYING YOU CAN MOVE IT SO THAT IT'S COMFORTABLE FOR YOU.
WE MOVED HERE JUST BEFORE THE HURRICANE HIT AND, UM, WE DIDN'T REALLY SEE OUR SURROUNDINGS AT THE TIME WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE.
THEY WERE JUST FINISHING REMODELING IT.
I WOULD'VE CHOSE A DIFFERENT EXTERIOR, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS.
ANYWAYS, UM, WE'VE HAD ISSUES WITH THEM KEEPING UP THE PROPERTY, THE BACKYARD.
AND WE'VE ASKED TO BE AWARE WHEN THEY WERE TAKING EVERYTHING DOWN, WHICH IT'S NOT, THEY JUST HAD WOMEN COMING OUT.
IT'S, THAT HAS GONE, THEY BROKE ALL THE WINDOWS
[02:35:03]
THAT IS STILL THERE.AND THE DEMOLITION OF THE HOUSE IS ANYTHING, THE WAY THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD IT, IT LOOKS REALLY CHEAP AND NOT WELL CONSTRUCTED.
WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE BACKYARD WHEN, IF AND WHEN THEY CLEAN IT UP, IT IS A JUGGLE.
I WAS GOING TO PUT A FENCE UP ON THAT SIDE AND I JUST DIDN'T THINK IT WAS WORTH IT.
AND I'VE MADE UPDATES TO MY WHOLE AREA AND I WANT THEM TO DO THE SAME THING.
IT INCREASES YOUR VALUE OF YOUR HOUSE, BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S DISGUSTING HOW ANYBODY, HOW WANDA EVER LIVED IN THERE.
THERE'S ROTORS THAT WERE COMING IN AND OUT OF THERE BEFORE.
THEY'RE STILL COMING IN AND OUT THERE NOW.
SO, UM, WE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
ALRIGHT, NOW WHO'S GOING TO TAKE ALL THE, I MEAN, THOSE TREES, THE GIGANTIC PINE TREES, UH, IN THEIR YARD, BUT THIS LAST STORM WE HAD, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY HOURS IT TOOK US TO CLEAN UP.
THEY HAVEN'T TOUCHED ANYTHING THERE.
THEY MOW THE GRASS ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE AND THE SIDE.
NOTHING HAS EVER DONE TO THE BACK.
AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A NEW HOUSE THERE, I WOULD ASSUME THE BACK SHOULD BE JUST AS NICE AS THE FRONT.
WE'LL, WE'LL TRY TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ALRIGHT, MATT, UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PRESENT THE STAFF FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS? SURE.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION? ARE WE GONNA DETERMINE CONTRIBUTING, NON-CONTRIBUTING FIRST? YES, I THINK WE SHOULD BECAUSE I THINK THAT CHANGES HOW WE, UM, I'M SORRY.
I THINK THAT CHANGES HOW WE PROCEED.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS YES, BUT I THINK, UH, YOUR DELIBERATION STARTS AFTER THE STAFF REPORT.
UM, AND WE'LL ONLY START WITH THE DEMOLITION PORTION.
SO, UM, THIS IS THE STEP REPORT FOR WANDA DAVISON, OPPORTUNITIES INDUSTRIALIZATION CENTER THREE 11 AVENUE C FOR THE PROJECT AT THREE 11 AVENUE.
HISTORIC PROPERTY NAME, UH, HAS NO NAME, UH, AND WAS LISTED AS 1920.
BUT, UM, I EDITORIALIZED AS BEING INCORRECT AND CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING, UH, PERHAPS TO BE DETERMINED.
SO, THREE 11 AVENUE C TO INCLUDE DEMOLITION OF THE ONE STORY HOUSE AND REDEVELOPMENT WITH A ONE STORY INFILL HOUSE.
THE NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT INVENTORY FOR RIVERSIDE IN 1988, DESCRIBED AS ONE STORY FRAME, GABLE ROOFED HOUSE WITH ASBE SID REPLACEMENT FRONT PORCH WITH CONCRETE DECK AND WROUGHT IRON COLUMNS.
SAND BECK DID NOT HAVE A DESCRIPTION.
AND SO STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING EXCERPTS FROM THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
PRINCIPLES AND DESIGN STANDARDS ARE APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION.
THE PROCESS FOR WHICH CONSISTS OF TWO DELIBERATIONS, FIRST DEMOLITION, AND IF DEMOLITION IS APPROVED, THEN REDEVELOP.
SO DELIBERATION ONE FOR DEMOLITION, UM, PROCESS FOR DECIDING WHETHER TO APPROVE THE DEMOLITION IN THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT IS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FOR CONTRIBUTING AND NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY FOR RIVERSIDE HAS AN INCORRECT CONSTRUCTION DATE FOR THE HOUSE, WHICH ACCORDING TO THE SANBORN MAP, SEEMED TO HAVE BEEN BUILT AFTER 1958, NOT 1920.
NEVERTHELESS, EVEN THOUGH THE HOUSE WAS THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN AT LEAST ABOUT 60 YEARS OLD, 68 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME, THE INVENTORY INDICATES THE HOUSE AS NON-CONTRIBUTING, WHICH MUST ACCOUNT FOR FACTORS OTHER THAN THE AGE OF THE BUILDING.
THE 1920 ENTERED INTO INVENTORY MAY ALSO HAVE BEEN A TOPOGRAPHIC ERROR IF BUILT SOMETIME BEFORE 1975.
A QUOTE, BUILDING DETERMINED TO BE MORE THAN 50 YEARS OF AGE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE TREATED AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
IF THE HPC DETERMINES THAT IT HAS NO ARCHITECTURAL CULTURAL OR HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE DUE TO THE UNCLARITY OF THIS SITUATION, STAFF RECOMMENDS HPC TO VOTE TO DETERMINE IF THE HOUSE IS NOW CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING.
UM, I WOULD SAY MAYBE WE COULD DO THAT NOW, RIGHT BEFORE WE GO THROUGH ALL THE REST.
[02:40:02]
COMMISSIONERS QUESTION, UH, COMMENTS ON CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING? WELL, THE 1988 NOMINATION OR NON CONTRIBUTING THE, THE INVENTORY LIST.UH, THOSE PROPERTIES WHICH DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE CHARACTER, THE NOT NOT CONTRIBUTING, IS THOSE PROPERTIES WHICH DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.
THEY MAY CLEARLY BE OF LATER CONSTRUCTION IN THE DISTRICT'S PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE.
OR THEY MAY HAVE BEEN ERECTED DURING THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE, BUT ALTERED TO SUCH A DEGREE THAT THEY HAVE LOST THE ESSENTIAL QUALITIES WHICH WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.
AND SO I THINK WHAT THEY DETERMINED IN 1988 WAS APPROPRIATE THAT IT WAS NOT CONTRIBUTING.
THERE'S MATT POINTING OUT THAT THERE'S NO CLEAR DATE OF CONSTRUCTION.
NOW WE, ABOUT 19 20, 19 40 AND 1958, UH, A COUPLE FACTORS THAT I WAS LOOKING AT, HURRICANE ION, UH, SHOWED UP IN OCTOBER OF 1954.
IT WAS EQUIVALENT TO FLORENCE.
AND DURING FLORENCE, THAT WHOLE AREA FLOODED.
I I MEAN THIS, THIS HOUSE WAS FLOODED FROM FLORENCE.
UH, SOME TWO STORY STRUCTURES HAVE BEEN CHANGED TO ONE STORY STRUCTURES IN RIVERSIDE BECAUSE OF A CHIMNEY FIRE THAT, THAT BURNED THE SECOND LEVEL.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FOUNDATION OF THAT STRUCTURE, THE FOUNDATION IS CINDER BLOCK.
I DIDN'T SEE ANY INDICATION OF BRICK PIERS, WHICH WOULD BE TYPICAL FOR A 1920S HOUSE.
UH, THE WINDOW PLACEMENT, UH, JUST DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ANY PART OF A 1920S HOUSE.
UH, IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE INTERIOR PICTURES, THE TRIM IS NOT, YOU KNOW, IS NOT 1920S.
UH, I DON'T SEE ANY ARCHITECTURAL, HISTORICAL OR CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE HOUSE.
SO I WOULD SAY THAT IT IS CONTRIBUTING.
YEAH, I VISITED THE SITE IS WHAT I, THERE IS NO ATTRIBUTE THAT YOU WOULD SAY THAT LOOKS HISTORIC.
LOOKING INSIDE THE WINDOWS, WHICH ARE GONE, YOU CAN SEE MODERN LIGHT BOXES, ET CETERA.
SO, SO JAMIE, I ASSUME YOU WOULD, UH, LIKE A MOTION
WOULD SOMEONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION CONCERNING WHETHER IT'S CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING LOVE TO.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO CONSIDER THE STRUCTURE AT, UM, THREE 11 AVENUE C TO BE A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE FOR, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, INCLUDING THE 1988, UM, NATIONAL HISTORIC REGISTER AND THE, UH, OBSERVATIONS OF BOTH THE INSIDE AND OUTSIDE CONSTRUCTION AND MATERIALS.
ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, SAY AYE.
SO WITH THAT, UM, SO DEMOLITION CANNOT BE DENIED FOR A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
UH, DEMOLITION OF A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE REQUIRES A TWO-PART COA, ET CETERA.
UH, AND SO, UM, THE GUIDELINES FOR DEMOLITION, IF THE HPC HAS DETERMINED THE STRUCTURE IS A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, YOU WOULD CITE 6.41.
UM, THE APPLICANT WAS TO PROVIDE DRAWINGS AND PHOTOGRAPHICALLY DOCUMENT SITE PRIOR TO DEMOLITION, INCLUDING PHOTOGRAPHS OF INTERIORS, EXTERIORS, ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS AND CONTEXT WITHIN THE STREET SCAPE.
AND TO NOTIFY PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS AND ALLOW FOR SALVAGE OF DESIGN COMPONENTS, ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES, AND BUILDING MATERIALS FOR REUSE, THOSE WOULD BE THE ONLY ONES THAT WOULD, UM, BUT ISN'T THAT FOR CONTRIBUTING? SO, UM, IF IT'S NON CONTRIBUTING, WHY WOULD YOU CONTACT? IT'S NOT, UM, IT, THE GUIDELINES DON'T DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO ON THOSE.
SO IF IT'S NON CONTRIBUTORY, THE SALVAGE OF DESIGN COMPONENTS DOESN'T SEEM TO MAKE MUCH SENSE.
[02:45:01]
IF THERE AREN'T ANY, THEN THEY WON'T HAVE TO DO THAT.BUT IF THERE ARE SOME, BUT IT'S STILL NOT, UH, A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH OF 'EM OR WHATEVER THAT WOULD SURE.
UM, SO, UH, IN ADDITION, THE GUIDELINES STIPULATE, UM, IN RENDERING A DECISION ON A DEMOLITION COA.
THE HPC SHOULD ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING THREE CONDITIONS, CONSIDERATIONS, UM, AND WE WENT THROUGH THIS JUST AN HOUR AGO, ADDRESS THE HISTORICAL, CULTURAL AND ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STRUCTURE TO CONSIDERATION.
TWO, ADDRESS THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE AND CONSIDERATION.
THREE, ADDRESS ATTEMPTED PRESERVATION EFFORTS.
UM, YOU CAN, YOU PROBABLY HAVE ALREADY READ THOSE, UH, STAFF COMMENTS FOR THAT.
THE STATEMENTS OF FACT WOULD BE, UH, THE PROJECT IS A PROPOSAL ON THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN TO DEMOLISH A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE RIVERSIDE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
UH, TWO, DUE TO DAMAGE FROM FLOODING BY HURRICANE FLORENCE IN 2018, THE CONDITION OF THE HOUSE, UH, DOES NOT MAKE IT A VIABLE STRUCTURE.
UH, THREE, THE PROPOSED REDEVELOPMENT FOR THE SITE WILL NEED TO BE APPROVED BY THE HPC IN DELIBERATION TWO BEFORE COA AND CONSTRUCTION PERMIT MAY BE ISSUED.
UH, NUMBER FOUR, THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BILLING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND FIVE, THE DEMOLITION OF THIS BUILDING IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINE, UH, PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.
WELL, I WOULD, I WOULD ARGUE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, SINCE WE'VE DETERMINED AS A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, WE CANNOT DENY DEMOLITION.
UH, SO THE CONSIDERATIONS ARE SOMEWHAT MO AT THIS POINT.
UM, I MEAN, WE, IT'S NOT A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
UH, YOU KNOW, THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURES, YOU KNOW WHY I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO CONSIDER THAT.
UH, WE CAN SEE FROM THE PICTURES THAT'S, THERE'S NOT OF A LOT OF, UH, INTEGRITY THERE AND ATTEMPTED PRESERVATION EFFORTS SOMEWHAT IRRELEVANT SINCE IT'S NON NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
AND WE FEEL LIKE THERE'S NOT ANYTHING THAT IS SALVAGEABLE.
SO I ARE YOU MAKING THAT AS A MOTION? UH, AS CHAIRMAN, I CAN'T MAKE THE MOTION.
I, I THINK WHAT, WHAT'S THE KEY IS, IS THAT TRUE? THAT WE JUST DON'T WANT THE DEMOL DEMOLITION TO OCCUR WITHOUT A DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
AND SO I MOVE THAT WE FIND THE APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION OF THREE 11 AVENUE C DO NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEW BERN'S CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTIONS 15 4 11 TO 15 429 AND NEW BERN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT GUIDELINE 6.4 0.1, WHICH IS DEMOLITION OF A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE SHALL NOT BE DENIED BY THE HBC.
THE, THE, UH, TO THE COMMISSION CONSIDERED THE STATUS OF STRUCTURE, INTEGRITY AND OF THE BUILDING AND CONCURS AND DEMOLITION.
THE PROJECT IS A PROPOSAL IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN TO DEMOLISH A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE RIVERSIDE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
DUE TO DAMAGE FROM FLOODING BY HURRICANE FLORENCE.
THE CONDITION OF THE HOUSE DOES NOT MAKE IT A VIABLE STRUCTURE.
PROPOSED REDEVELOPMENT WILL NEED TO BE APPROVED BY THE HPC BEFORE THE COA AND CONSTRUCTION PERMIT MAY BE ISSUED.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND THE DEMOLITION OF THIS BUILDING IS IN CON, NOT IN CONGRESS WITH THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS.
DID YOU GET THE STRIKE? I'M NOT.
ANY DISCUSSION? CAN I JUST GO FROM 6.4 POINT RIGHT TO FINDINGS OF FACT? YEAH.
ANY DISCUSSIONS? ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY.
SO, UH, ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? MOTION IS APPROVED.
SO WE'RE NOT ISSUING A COA AT THIS POINT.
SO WE WILL MOVE TO THE REDEVELOPMENT.
UM, MR. CHAIR, I THINK YOU'VE HAD A REQUEST FOR LIKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK.
[02:50:01]
OR YOU, YOU CAN JUST GO, WE'LL COVER FOR YOU CARRY.IF, IF THEY'RE NOT TAKING A BREAK, IF MR. RUSH IS JUST EXCUSING HIM HIMSELF TEMPORARILY, HE CAN.
UH, BUT IF, IF THE MEMBERS NEED A BREAK BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR A WHILE, YOU COULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO TAKE A BRIEF RECESS OR NOT.
WE TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK AND, AND, AND NO LONGER, UM, UNTIL HE, UNTIL MR. SURE.
DO YOU WANNA SECOND THAT SECOND? AYE.
CONSIDERING YOU ONLY HAVE FOUR PEOPLE HERE, ONE LEAVES KIND OF A OPPORTUNITY.
SO YOU WANNA CONSIDER BEING CHAIRMAN
I WAS AT A COUNSELING ONCE AND IT WENT TO TWO IN THE MORNING.
SO THEY SAID, AND IT HAPPENED A COUPLE TIMES IN A ROOM.
I SAID, OKAY, FROM NOW ON, IF IT GETS TO LIKE A QUARTER OR 12, WE HAVE TO HAVE A SPECIAL VOTE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GOING CONTINUE.
IF PEOPLE ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW, ONE O'CLOCK, HOW ARE YOU THINKING STRAIGHT AFTER WORKING ALL DAY TOO.
YOU KNOW, DON'T DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING, SO.
OKAY, WE'RE BACK ON THE BOARD.
SHALL WE, SHALL WE PROCEED? OKAY.
UM, ALRIGHT, LET SUBMIT WE'RE AT THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.
UM, SO, UH, FOR DELIBERATION, TWO REDEVELOPMENT STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING.
HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES ARE APPROPRIATE TO THIS PORTION OF THE APPLICATION BASED ON THE PLANS AND DESCRIPTIONS PROVIDED AT THE TIME OF THE PREPARATION OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS.
POINTS OF HHPC POLICY, AGAIN, WE WENT THROUGH THESE AN HOUR AGO.
UM, NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE INFILL EVALUATED AS INFILL CONSTRUCTION.
A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN, UH, MUST INCLUDE A REVIEW AND PRELIMINARY APPROVAL BY THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR AND A REASONABLE TIMEFRAME FOR COMPLETION OF REDEVELOPMENT SHOULD BE PROVIDED.
UH, THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR AND THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR HAVE REVIEWED THE PROPOSED CATCHES, UH, AND HAVE COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
TIMEFRAME FOR COMPLETION OF THE PROJECT HAS NOT YET BEEN PROPOSED.
UM, THEN STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING, HISTORIC DISTRICT PRINCIPLES AND DESIGN STANDARDS.
AKA GUIDELINES THAT MAY BE APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION FOR DEVELOPMENT.
PATTERN 2.1 AND THREE FOR UTILITIES.
UH, ON, UH, THE HIGHLIGHTED ONES ARE PERHAPS
[02:55:01]
ITEMS TO DISCUSS.2.3, TWO, THREE AND SIX FOR LANDSCAPING.
2.4 0.2 AND THREE FOR PARKING.
UH, DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1, TWO AND FOUR FOR INFILL CONSTRUCTION.
3.4 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND FOUR FOR FOUNDATIONS.
4.2 3, 4 5 AND SIX FOR WALL WALLS, TRIM AND ORNAMENTATION, 4.24 FOR WINDOWS, DOORS AND OPENINGS.
4.44 FOR ACCESSIBILITY AND LIFE SAFETY.
5, 4, 3 AND FOUR FOR CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS.
5, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, AND SIX FOR STATEMENTS OF FACT.
BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION, R ONE, THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IS LOCATED IN THE TYPE WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
THE PROJECT IS AN INFILL HOUSE.
THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND FIVE, THE APPLICATION IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES.
HPC MAY WANT TO CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.
ONE REVISED PLANS ACCORDING TO CHANGES AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES AND PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS DIVISION AND TWO, A LANDSCAPING AND OR TERRACING PLAN.
THE MINI MINIMIZES THE VISUAL IMPACT OF TALL FOUNDATION WALLS SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES AND PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS DIVISION.
DOES THE, UH, APPLICANT HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT, UH, BOARD? THIS WILL COME THIS.
A COUPLE QUESTIONS WHILE YOU'RE UP THERE.
UH, I, THE, THE ONE QUESTION THAT CAME UP WAS, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA BE ELEVATING THE HOUSE, UM, DO YOU HAVE A LANDSCAPING PLAN TO TRY TO, UM, COVER SOME OF THE, OF THAT HIGH WALL? UM, THAT'S NOT A PART OF, OF OUR CONTRACT.
SO THERE'LL BE NO LANDSCAPING AS PART OF THE CONTRACT AROUND THE HOUSE? UH, NO.
THERE, UM, UH, THAT, UH, THAT WASN'T PROVIDED BY THE STATE.
UH, OUR CONTRACT IS JUST TO BUILD A HOUSE MM-HMM
AND, UH, WE WILL PUT TIES DOWN AND UH, WE GOTTA HAVE LIKE A 10 FOOT CLEARANCE AROUND THE HOUSE.
SO SOME OF THAT BRUSH THAT'S THERE, WE'LL BE, WE'LL BE REMOVED AR AROUND THE HOUSE? YES.
NOW, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE CAME EARLIER AND TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE, UH, LANDSCAPING OVERGROWN IN THE BACKYARD.
DOES YOUR CONTRACT INCLUDE ANY OF THE CLEANING OF THAT? MY CONTRACT ONLY GOES 10 FEET.
AROUND, UM, WHO OWNS, WHO'S GONNA BE LIVING IN THE HOUSE? YOU'RE, YOU'RE THE CONTRACTOR? YES.
YOU'RE NOT THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE? NO, NO, I'M THE CONTRACTOR.
ARE THEY HERE? UM, MS. DAVIS SON.
UM, AND YOU'VE BEEN SWORN IN AT THE BEGINNING? NO.
I CAN BE SWORN IN IF YOU NEED DO, YEP.
IF YOU'LL RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, PROVIDE HONEST TESTIMONY AND ANSWERS TO ANY QUESTIONS DIRECTED TO YOU? I DO.
AND IF YOU WILL STATE YOUR, YOUR NAME AND, AND YOU ARE THE PROPERTY HONOR, RIGHT? UH, I'M SHANE TURN.
THE PROPERTY OWNER IS MY MOTHER-IN-LAW, WANDA DAVIS.
SO DO YOU PLAN TO HAVE A LANDSCAPING AROUND THE PROPERTY? I GUESS THAT'S THE QUESTION, RIGHT? WE WILL DO, UM, SOME LANDSCAPING WITHIN THE GUIDELINES THAT YOU SET FORTH.
RIGHT NOW, CURRENTLY WHAT SHE HAS IS, UM, BUSHES THAT ARE OVERGROWN BECAUSE THE PROPERTY WAS DEEMED STRUCTURALLY UNSOUND.
SHE HAS HAD TO LEAVE THE PROPERTY AND IT HAS BEEN REMEDIATED.
SO WE DO MAINTAIN THE YARD, WE MOW AND WEED EAT AND TRIM AS WE CAN.
BUT, UM, THE BACKSIDE OF THE HOUSE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A NATURAL AREA.
IT'S NEVER BEEN, THERE'S NEVER BEEN GRASS BACK THERE.
IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A NATURAL AREA.
BUT WOULD YOU CONSIDER, UM, MAINTAINING THE BACK OF THE BACKYARD AS WELL? WE DO PLAN ON CUTTING MOST OF THAT DOWN ONCE THE HOUSE IS DEMOLISHED.
SO RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST HARD TO GET
[03:00:01]
TO BECAUSE THERE'S STORAGE PODS IN THE YARD AND, AND THEN THERE'S THE HOUSE ITSELF, AND IT IS NARROW BETWEEN THE FENCE AND THE HOUSE.AND WHO WILL BE OCCUPYING THE HOUSE? YOUR MOTHER? UH, MS. DAVIS WILL NOT.
ACTUALLY I HAVE THREE QUESTIONS.
THE, THE MATERIAL FOR THE DOORS IS WHAT? THE DOOR MATERIAL IS.
WHAT IF YOU FIBERGLASS? I BELIEVE DOOR MATERIAL.
DOOR MATERIAL BE, WE MAY HAVE FIRE RELAX.
AND THE WINDOWS, THE WINDOWS ARE, UH, VINYL.
AND THEN ON THE DRAWING, YOU SHOW THE RAMP.
IS THERE NO DRIVEWAY? I MEAN IT, YEAH, THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION IS IT SHOWS A RAMP, BUT IT DOESN'T SHOW LIKE A DRIVEWAY OR A PLACE WHERE THE, THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY IS THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, OPPOSITE OF THE RENT.
SO YOU'RE GONNA MOVE THE DRIVEWAY.
IS IT GONNA BE IMPROVED OR GRAVEL, WHATEVER? WELL, WE, WE, WE DIDN'T INTEND ON MOVING THE DRIVEWAY, AND I'M SURE WE WILL HAVE TO MAKE REPAIRS BASED ON THE CONSTRUCTION THAT OCCURS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT'LL BE AT THIS TIME.
MATT, DO YOU HAVE A PICTURE THAT SHOWS THE DRIVEWAY? THERE'S NOTHING FOR A PROVEN DRIVEWAY.
SO IT IS A RAMP ON THE WRONG SIDE OR JUST THE BACK DOOR? SO IT, THE, THE, THE, THE DR THE PHOTOS SEEM TO INDICATE THAT THE DRIVEWAY IS ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.
THE, THE PICTURE I'M LOOKING AT, IT'S ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE WHERE THE DOOR IS FOR THE FRONT DOOR.
BUT IT SHOWED, SHOWED THE RAMP ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
SO, SO IS THAT RAMP JUST GONNA GO TO THE YARD? IT'S NOT GONNA GO TOWARDS A DRIVEWAY? I BELIEVE SO.
I THINK THAT THE, THE ISSUE WAS WITH THE FRONT PORCH TO GET THE LENGTH THAT WE NEED FOR THE, FOR THE RAMP AND THE, THE ONE INCH PER FOOT, IT IS REQUIRED TO GO ON THAT LEFT SIDE IT, OTHERWISE IT WOULD COMPLETELY CIRCUMVENT THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
CAN YOU PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF? I'M CHARLES BOWMAN.
CAN UP TO THE MICROPHONE PLEASE? I'M CHARLES BOWMAN WITH OIC.
SO, SO IF, IF SOMEONE PULLS INTO THE DRIVEWAY IN A CAR TO GET UP THE RAMP, THEY HAVE TO GO ACROSS THE FRONT YARD TO USE THE RAMP.
THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A SIDEWALK OR A WALKWAY OR ANYTHING.
UM, THAT'S THE WAY THAT THE STATE GAVE US THE PLANS.
THEY, THEY, THEY DID THE DESIGN, UH, THEY DID THE, THEY DID THE PLOT PLAN FOR, FOR THE RAMP.
AND THE DRIVEWAY IS, IT IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
NOW, HOWEVER, ON ON THAT SECOND LOT, THERE IS A OPENING THERE.
SO, UM, THERE'S PLENTY OF ROOM.
UM, I, I'M NOT SURE IF THEY USED IT FOR, FOR, FOR TO DRIVE IN, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I ASSUME THAT, UM, THEY WOULD START USING IT IF SOMEONE HAD TO BE, HAD TO USE, HAD USED USED AROUND.
BUT THERE'S NOT A CURB CUT OVER THERE THOUGH.
IS THERE, THERE THERE IS A, THIS IT IS TWO LOTS, RIGHT? THE LOT TO THE SIDE IS JUST AN EMPTY LOT.
THERE IS A DRIVEWAY APRON FOR EACH LOT.
THAT'S WHY THE DRIVEWAY IS ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE DRIVEWAY APRON IS.
UM, CURRENTLY SHE DOES NOT USE A HANDICAP ACCESSIBLE RAMP, BUT THIS PROJECT IS THROUGH A, A GRANT FROM THE STATE SURE.
AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY DICTATED B IN THE PROJECT THAT SHE CURRENTLY GOES, OR WHEN SHE WAS THERE UP THE STEPS AT THE FRONT DOOR FROM HER DRIVEWAY.
SO, SO, SO YOU'RE OBLIGATED TO TAKE A RAMP THAT GOES ESSENTIALLY INTO, TO NOWHERE.
I, I CAN'T ANSWER FOR THE STATE, BUT, UM, WE, WE HAD THAT PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, IT, THE, THE GOVERNMENT SOMETIMES DOESN'T MAKE AS MUCH SENSE AS IT SHOULD, YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA QUOTE YOU ON THAT.
UM, I, I'M, BEFORE YOU GO THOUGH, I'M SORRY.
I SEE THAT THE EXISTING HOUSE HAS SHRUBS AROUND IT AND I KNOW THOSE, THOSE WILL ALL AGO FOR THE CONSTRUCTION ON, ON THE FRONT.
THEY, THEY, THEY WILL PROBABLY BE TORN DOWN FOR THE CONSTRUC.
AND BUT, BUT YOU'RE PLANNING ON PUTTING LANDSCAPING BACK ON THE FRONT IN SOME FASHION.
IT WOULD BE NICE WITHIN WHATEVER GUIDELINES YOU SET FORTH, UM, WE DID MAINTAIN THE BUSHES WHILE SHE LIVED THERE AND KEPT EVERYTHING NICE AND TRIMMED.
NOW THAT THE HOUSE HAS BEEN REMEDIATED, IT'S UM, IT'S LIKE AN EFFORT IN FUTILITY.
UM, BUT THERE ARE LIMITATIONS WITH THE PODS THERE, WITH IT REMEDIATED.
[03:05:01]
KEEP, UM, LIKE, UH, SQUIRRELS AND ANIMALS FROM GOING IN AND OUTTA THE HOUSE.IT'S, IT'S SORT OF A DIFFICULT SITUATION, BUT SHE'S REALLY TRYING TO IMPROVE THIS PROPERTY.
UM, GOING THROUGH THE REBUILD PROCESS HAS BEEN EXTREMELY SLOW THOUGH.
AND, UM, AND I MEAN, ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT SHE, SHE REALLY WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD AND, AND MAKE HER NEIGHBORHOOD LOOK AS GOOD AS IT CAN.
BUT, BUT THEN WHATEVER GUIDELINES YOU SET FORTH, WE'RE MORE THAN HAPPY TO PUT WHATEVER SHRUBBERY WE NEED THERE.
WE'LL ADDRESS THE SHRUBBERY AND LANDSCAPING LATER.
BUT I DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE TRIM AND SOME OF THE, UM, BOARDS, UM, VERTICAL BOARDS.
UM, AND IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I'M SURE WE HAVE ONE NEIGHBOR HERE AND ACROSS THE STREET THERE'S A COUPLE CRAFTSMAN HOUSES.
AND THIS LOOKS LIKE A CRAFTSMAN HOUSE KIND OF.
UM, I WOULD THINK THAT YOU'D WANT TO MIMIC THE TRIM SIZE OF THE HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WOULD MAKE IT LOOK A LITTLE MORE FITTING.
IT WOULD FIT INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD A LITTLE BETTER, I THINK WHEN YOU HAVE A FOUR INCH TRIM AROUND THE WINDOW AND THE VERTICAL, UH, WHAT DO YOU CALL THE VERTICAL ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE? LOOK AT THE CORNER.
THE CORNER PIECE THAT WAS, THAT WAS I THINK FOUR INCHES.
WELL, I THINK THE, I THINK THE, UM, UPWARDS WERE SIX, BUT I, I THINK WE SHOULD ASK FOR A, A WIDER TRIM ON THE HOUSE.
SO THAT LOOKS MORE PERIOD AND NOT SO NEW CONSTRUCTION.
AND BY THE WAY, YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S A FOUR INCH CORNER.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S TYPICAL.
UM, YOUR HOUSE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW HOW WIDE YOUR TRIM IS.
MATT'S HOUSES, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S AT LEAST SIX INCHES TO EIGHT INCHES.
AND CAN WE MAKE A SPECIFICATION ON THAT? SOME TRIM AROUND THE WINDOWS? YES, WE'VE DONE THAT BEFORE.
AND I THINK IT'D MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE APPEARANCE OF THE, OF THE PROPERTY.
LET'S, LET'S SEE IF WE CAN KINDA GET BACK ON TRACK HERE.
WE'LL PROBABLY CALLING YOU AGAIN.
UH, ARE THERE ANY PROPONENTS OR OPPONENTS WHO, UH, RECEIVED NOTICE WHO WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON THE LEAD DEVELOPMENT? AND, AND MR. CHAIR, BEFORE WE OPEN THE FLOOR FOR ADDITIONAL COMMENTS, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO BEAR IN MIND THAT COMMENTS SHOULD BE DIRECTED AT THE APPLICATION AS IT'S BEING PROPOSED.
LANDSCAPING IS NOT A PART OF THIS APPLICATION.
UM, SO ANY LANDSCAPING CONCERNS ARE NOT NECESSARILY RELEVANT FOR THIS PORTION OF THE HEARING.
IF A LANDSCAPING PLAN COMES BACK IN THE FUTURE, CERTAINLY THOSE MATTERS CAN BE ADDRESSED, BUT THIS IS STRICTLY ON THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN AS IS PROPOSED TODAY.
QUESTION, WHEN DO THEY PUT THOSE? YOU'LL HAVE TO SPEAK LOUDER IN TIME, PLEASE.
WHEN DO THEY MAKE THE PROPOSAL FOR THE LANDSCAPING? THEY CAN APPLY TO THE HPC FOR A LANDSCAPING, UM, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
AND IF THIS BOARD SAYS THAT THEY WANT TO HEAR, UM, THAT APPLICATION, THEN NOTICES WILL GO OUT AS THEY DID TODAY FOR THIS PARTICULAR HEARING.
AND WE, WE NOTIFY BECAUSE WE, WE ARE RIGHT NEXT TO THEM.
IF THIS BOARD DECIDES THAT THEY WANT TO HEAR THE, THE LANDSCAPING APPLICATION AS OPPOSED TO DELEGATING IT TO STAFF, THEN PERSONS WITHIN A CERTAIN RANGE OF THE HOUSE WILL BE NOTIFIED OF THAT HEARING? YES, MA'AM.
BECAUSE THE NATURAL BACKYARD HAS NEVER BEEN TOUCHED.
THIS, THE APPLICATION IS ABOUT THE PROPOSED REDEVELOPMENT.
SO, UH, MA'AM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS OR EVIDENCE TO PRESENT AS TO THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE HOUSE, I I THINK THE BOARD IS INCLINED TO HEAR ANY COMMENTS YOU MIGHT HAVE.
ANY OTHER PROPONENTS OR OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE? UM, ANY OTHERS? UH, WHO, WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION? UH, MATT, YOU'VE ALREADY PRESENTED STAFF FINDINGS, CORRECT? CORRECT.
UM, DOES THE APPLICANT CARE TO, UH, MAKE ANY OTHER COMMENTS, ADDRESS ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE HEARD? I HAVE A QUESTION.
UM, I HEARD YOU SAY THAT YOU WANTED SIX INCH AROUND THE WINDOWS.
UM, THAT'S THE ENTIRE WINDOW TRIM.
I, AND I THINK, WEREN'T YOU TALKING ABOUT THE CORNER BOARDS CORNER BOARD TOO? CORNER BOARDS TOO?
[03:10:01]
DO YOU KNOW THAT? DO YOU KNOW THAT BE SIX INCHES CONTINUOUS OR DO YOU WANT THE LARGER, CONTINUE THE DETAIL THEY HAD, THEY HAD A SIX OR FOUR INCH.I JUST THINK THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ON THAT SAME BLOCK, IF YOU COULD MATCH WHAT THE WIDTH THE VETERAN IS, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU SHOULD USE.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S TYPICALLY A FIVE QUARTER, UH, FIVE BY FIVE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY FOUR AND A HALF.
SO, BUT THERE'S NOT A DIFFERENTIAL AROUND THE TOP.
USUALLY IT, IT'S THE SAME AROUND THE WHOLE WINDOW, IS IT NOT? UH, IT DEPENDS ON THE HOUSE.
THE HEADER IN SOME HOUSES THE HEADER IS A LITTLE BIT BIGGER EVEN ON THE OUTSIDE.
SO YOU WERE SAYING FOUR AND A HALF, ABOUT SIX COURT.
WELL HERE'S THIS, IT'S CALLED A, IT'S CALLED A FIVE SIX INCH BOARD IS REALLY FIVE AND SOMETHING.
WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN GET THAT SORTED OUT.
SO MOVING, MOVING ON WITH, UH, WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING HERE.
UH, SO THE APPLICANT HAS, UH, HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THINGS.
ALRIGHT, SO COMMISSIONERS, UH, DISCUSSION AND, UM, QUESTIONS.
YES, I'D LIKE TO HAVE THE TRIM IN THE, UM, CORNER BOARDS BE REFLECTIVE OF WHAT'S IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND, UM, I THINK WE'VE ESTABLISHED IT'S A, THEY CALL IT A SIX INCH TRIM.
IT MIGHT BE A FIVE AND FIVE EIGHTHS BOARD.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE KEEPING, AND THE, AND THE CORNER BOARDS ARE BIGGER THAN THAT.
I, THAT, THAT'S A BIG, THAT'S BIG.
WHEN IS, UM, I THINK THAT WOULD HELP THE, UH, PROJECT LOOK A LITTLE MORE AUTHENTIC AND, UM, FIT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD A LITTLE BIT BETTER INSTEAD OF LOOKING SO NEW CONSTRUCTION, YOU TYPICALLY WANT TALK ABOUT LIGHT FIXTURES.
DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THIS? UM, I SAW THAT YOU HAD LIGHT FIXTURES SO YOU CAN TALK ABOUT 'EM.
I JUST WAS CURIOUS WHAT THEY, IF YOU'RE COMFORT, WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKE.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT THOSE FIXTURES ARE LOOKING LIKE, WHAT THE, THE OUTSIDE PORCH LIGHTS AND THE BACK LIGHT LOOK LIKE AND IN SOME OF THAT PRODUCTS IS MORE OF A CARRIAGE STYLE.
JUST WE'D LIKE TO SEE WHAT IT IS.
YEAH, I MEAN, WE COULD PROVIDE YOU WITH SOME PICTURES AND, AND, AND, AND THAT YOU GUYS TAKE A LOOK AT ALL OF IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT BEAR IMPACT THEY THEY DID OR NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT, THAT PICTURE.
YEAH, THAT ONE THERE LOOKS YEAH.
BUT THAT, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO GO ON.
SO WE'LL NEED SOMETHING MAYBE LOOK A LITTLE BIT, YEAH.
SO, UH, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT, LOOKING AT THE, UH, MASS SCALE PORTION, DETAILING OVERALL, ANY THOUGHTS, COMMENTS ON THAT ONE? STORY HOUSE, ONE STORY FITS INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT HAS A, IT HAS A LITTLE BIT OF A YEAH, I HAS SOME DIMENSION TO IT.
IT'S NOT JUST A BOX, IT HAS A LITTLE BIT OF, RIGHT.
SO AROUND, AROUND THIS HOUSE, UM, THERE'S A 19 18 2 STORY SIDE HALL.
UH, THERE'S SEVERAL CRAFTSMEN, CO COTTAGES.
UH, I THINK THE, UM, I THINK THE DETAILING CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS, I THINK ALL OF THAT IS COMPLIANT WITH THE GUIDELINES.
I THINK, UH, YES, THIS IS NEW CONSTRUCTION, BUT I THINK IT WILL, UH, FIT IN NICELY WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, ON THE, ON THE, THE PART THAT LOOKS LIKE SHING, LIKE ON ON THE SIDE, THE PART THAT THAT, UH, IS EMULATING KIND OF THE, THE, THAT SHINGLE LOOK OR WHATEVER.
IS, IS, ARE THOSE JUST LONG BOARDS THAT HAVE LIKE A IMPRINT ON 'EM? OR IS, OR, OR ARE THEY LITTLE SMALL PIECES? IT, THAT PRODUCT COMES IN LIKE A THREE FOOT SECTION, ALMOST LIKE A SHINGLE ROOF SHINGLE.
AND THEN THEY'RE OVERLAP AND STACKER TO CREATE THAT.
SO IT DOES HAVE AN OVERLAP LOOK.
AND THE THREE OVER 12 ON THAT FRONT PORCH IS, IS OKAY FOR SHINGLES RATHER THAN, BECAUSE I THINK YOU HAD METAL ROOF ON THAT PREVIOUS DESIGN THAT YOU DIDN'T DO.
YEAH, I THINK THREE 12 IS, IS THE METAL FOR SHINGLE.
UH, I I HAD ONE, UH, QUESTION, UH, OR AT LEAST ONE POINT TO MAKE.
AND THAT IS THAT THE, UH, HORIZONTAL SIDING HAS TO BE FLAT AND NOT THE TEXTURED VERSION.
SO AS LONG AS YOU'RE AWARE OF THAT, YOU'RE SAYING SMOOTH, RIGHT? YEAH, SMOOTH.
[03:15:01]
YEAH.UH, AND IS THE, UH, SEVEN INCH HORIZONTAL LAP, IS THAT THE SEVEN INCH EXPOSURE, IS IT SEVEN INCHES THAT WE SEE OR IS IT A SEVEN INCH PIECE? THAT'S AN OVERLAP AND IT'S LESS SEVEN.
IT IS LIKE AN EIGHT AND A HALF INCH.
IT'S, IT, THE ACTUAL SIDING PIECE IS ABOUT EIGHT AND A HALF INCHES WITH A SEVEN INCH SEVEN AND A QUARTER EXPOSURE.
AND I DIDN'T SEE, IT MAY WELL BE HERE, BUT THE FOUNDATION BRICKS, HOW, HOW HIGH, HOW TALL IS JUST UP TO THE SILL OF, HOW HIGH IS THAT ON THIS DRAWING? I BELIEVE ON THE ELEVATION IS THREE AND A HALF FEET WILL BE YOUR BASICALLY THE CROSS THINGS UNDERNEATH, RIGHT? YEAH.
BUT THAT'S, SO IS THAT TO SCALE ON THIS DRAWING? NO, I DIDN'T THINK SO.
SO IT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE A TALLER FOUNDATION.
IT'S GONNA BE THREE AND A HALF FEET.
THAT'S, AND LONGER STEPS ON THIS IS LISTED LIKE SIX AND A HALF BRICKS, IS THAT RIGHT? YEAH, SURE.
SO IT'S GONNA BE A TALLER HOUSE YES.
WHICH WILL REQUIRE MORE LANDSCAPING.
YOU JUST THINK ABOUT THREE AND A HALF FEET.
YOU ASSUME THOSE STEPS ARE SEVEN INCHES.
YOU'RE ABOUT COME UP TO THE SEVEN, EIGHT INCHES.
YOU'RE ASSUMING THOSE SUPERVISORS ON THOSE STAIRS ARE AROUND SEVEN INCHES? YOU'RE ABOUT 28 INCHES OF SCALE.
BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO ADD A REQUIREMENT FOR A LANDSCAPING PLAN TO THE ADMINISTRATOR.
AND LIGHTING PLAN TO THE ADMINISTRATOR RELEASED THE LIGHTING, UH, FIXTURES.
AND, AND JUST, YOU KNOW, AND THE CHAIN LINK FENCE STAYS OR GOES MM-HMM.
THE CHAIN LINK FENCE THAT YOU SAW GOING ACROSS THE FRONT YEAH.
OF THE PROPERTY IN THOSE PICTURES HAS ALREADY BEEN REMOVED.
I I WANT TO PUT, YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT.
I DIDN'T HAVE TO CLIMB THE FENCE.
YOU KNOW, WE'LL, WE'LL DO SOME LANDSCAPING TO, SHE REALLY WANTS TO MAKE THIS HOUSE LOOK GOOD.
AND, UM, WHATEVER'S NEEDED, YOU KNOW.
WE'LL, DO WE JUST APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION 'CAUSE SHE'D REALLY LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD.
SHE'S, THIS WAS A VICTIM OF HURRICANE FLORENCE.
AND IT'S SIX YEARS NOW OR SO, AND, UM, IT'S A TERRIBLE YEAH.
BUT WE'RE AT THIS POINT, SO WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
SO I'D LIKE TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY REAL QUICK TO, UH, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU DECIDE TO INSTALL ANY FENCING OR, UH, DRIVEWAY OR REMOVE ANY TREES, THOSE ALL REQUIRE, UM, SEPARATE APPROVALS.
WE WE'RE NOT PLANNING ON REMOVING ANY TREES.
BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE DRIVEWAY WHENEVER CONSTRUCTION IS DONE.
BUT WE'LL, WE WILL DEFINITELY, I'LL BE IN TOUCH WITH YOU TO SEE WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AT THAT TIME.
UM, THERE'S NOT PLANS FOR A FENCE RIGHT NOW TO GO BACK, BUT IF NEED BE IN THE FUTURE, I SAW WHAT YOU APPROVED EARLIER, SO I WOULD GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU YEP.
WE NO LONGER ALLOW CHAIN LINK FENCES, SO, OH, IT DIDN'T LOOK GOOD.
AND I'M JUST TRYING TO, TRYING TO ADDRESS, UH, THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE UPKEEP, UH, OF THE PROPERTY.
WE HAD A, WE HAD A SIMILAR SITUATION WITH THE COA, I THINK IT WAS ON AVENUE C OR WAS IT D IT WAS A HOUSE THAT WAS, THAT HAD BEEN FLOODED IN AVENUE C IRENE BACK IN 2012.
AND IT HAD SET FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.
UH, AND PROBABLY THE BEST THING THAT HAPPENED THERE WAS THE HOUSE BEING DEMOLISHED.
UH, AND THEN THE REDEVELOPMENT, UH, SIMILAR, SIMILAR SITUATION.
SO WE AS THE HPC, UH, WE DON'T REALLY DEAL WITH PROPERTY, UH, UPKEEP FOR THE MOST PART, ALTHOUGH THERE'S A, THERE'S ANOTHER PATH OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GONNA BE DEMOLISHED.
SO THAT'S A LITTLE BIT, I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
UH, WE DON'T NECESSARILY DEAL WITH THE QUALITY OF CONSTRUCTION.
WE EVALUATE AND VOTE ON WHAT'S PUT IN FRONT OF US.
UH, UH, UH, THERE WAS A COMMENT ABOUT THE BACKYARD IS A JUNGLE.
WELL, I, I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE I USED, I USED TO LIVE IN AVENUE A IS THE BEST THING THAT YOU CAN DO TO CLEAN UP A PROPERTY IS TO HAVE SOMEONE OCCUPYING THE STRUCTURE ON THE PROPERTY.
[03:20:01]
IS EMPTY.THERE'S, UH, I MEAN THERE'S ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT CAN, THAT CAN GO SOUTH.
SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT IN A POSITION TO ADDRESS A LOT OF THESE THINGS, BUT I THINK THEY WILL WORK THEMSELVES OUT ONCE THE EXISTING STRUCTURE IS DEMOLISHED, UH, THE NEW STRUCTURE IS IN PLACE AND WE HAVE A REAL LIFE PERSON LIVING IN THE HOUSE, THE OWNER, AND ACTUALLY MAINTAINING IT.
MATT, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT.
IS THERE A, A A A A SOMEONE WHO MONITORS, UM, CONDITIONS OF YARDS AND, AND, AND THINGS KIND OF A NUISANCE CONTROL THING? YES.
WE HAVE TWO NUISANCE ABATEMENT OFFICERS ON STAFF AND, OKAY.
AND DO THEY, UH, DO JUST FRONT YARDS? WHAT'S VISIBLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY? OR CAN THEY ADDRESS BACKYARDS AS AS WELL? THEY ADDRESS NUISANCE CONDITIONS AND NUISANCES CAN HAPPEN IN THE FRONT SIDE OR REAR.
UM, AND THE NUISANCE ABATEMENT PROCESS IN THE CITY OF NEW BURN IS COMPLAINT DRIVEN.
SO IF SOMEONE WANTS TO MAKE A COMPLAINT TO THE NUISANCE ABATEMENT OFFICERS, THEY WILL INVESTIGATE AND APPLY THE LAW AS, AS IT EXISTS.
SO I'M, I'M HOPING EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE HEARD THAT.
AND MATT, YOU HAD HIGHLIGHTED ABOUT UTILITIES UNDERGROUND.
IS IT REQUIRED IN THAT AREA OR, BECAUSE TYPICALLY YOU'RE, IT'S MA'AM, YOU'RE DEALING WITH WHATEVER YOUR NEIGHBORS HAVE.
UM, AND UH, THIS IS MAYBE, UH, ONE OF THE GUIDELINES THAT NEED MORE CLARIFICATION.
I THINK IT, IT MAY HAVE BEEN INTENDED FOR US FOR RIGHT OF WAY, UH, OR, UM, DOWNTOWN AREA.
I, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY IN THE, THERE'S NORMALLY STUFF UP IN THE AIR.
SO I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS INTENDED AT THE TIME, BUT ALL I KNOW IS THAT'S WHAT'S WRITTEN.
ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION, COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? WOULD SOMEONE CARE TO MAKE A MOTION CONSIDERING THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN CHAIR? GO AHEAD, JIM.
I COULD WING IT, BUT YOU'D BE BETTER AT IT.
JUST 'CAUSE I BRING MY PAPERS.
UM, I MOVE TO FIND THE APPLICATION FOR REDEVELOPMENT OF THREE 11 AVENUE C TO BE NOT INCURRED IN CONGRESS WITH NEW BERN'S CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTION 15 4 11 15 4 29 AND NEW BERN'S, HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS, ITEMS 2.1 AND THREE, UTILITIES 2.3 0.2 AND SIX, LANDSCAPING 2.42 AND THREE.
PARKING, UM, 2.7 0.12 AND FOUR.
DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1, 0.2 AND FOUR.
INFILL CONSTRUCTION, 3.4 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND FOUR FOUNDATIONS, 4.1, 2, 3, 4, 5, AND SIX WALLS, TRIM AND ORNAMENTATION, 4.2 0.4 WINDOWS, DOORS AND OPENINGS.
4.3 0.2 AND THREE ENTRANCES, 4.44.
ACCESSIBILITY IN LIFE SAFETY, 4.7 0.2 AND THREE.
MASONRY FIVE, PAINT, 5.4, 0.3 AND FOUR.
CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, 5.5 0.1, 2, 3, 4, 5, AND SIX FINDINGS.
IN FACT, THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IS LOCATED IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
THE PROJECT IS AN INFILL HOUSE.
AND THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DESIGN, HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, ALSO KNOWN AS GUIDELINES.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND THE APPLICATION IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES, LIKE, UH, TWO CONDITIONS.
ONE, THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE A LANDSCAPING PLAN FOR THE PROPERTY, PARTICULARLY AROUND THE FOUNDATION.
AND SECONDLY THAT THE, UM, THEY PROVIDE LIGHTING DESCRIPTION OF THE FIXTURES TO THE ADMINISTRATOR.
BOTH, BOTH OF THOSE CAN BE GIVEN TO THE ADMINISTRATOR.
JIM, COULD YOU ADD THIRD ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE TRIM ON THE HOUSE? OH, SORRY.
[03:25:01]
SIDEBOARDS AND CORNER BOARDS AND THE WINDOW TRIM WILL BE DIMENSIONAL.6.6 INCH, UH, BOARDS AS OPPOSED TO THE FOUR INCH ON THE DRAWING.
I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE ADDRESSED.
MATT, YOU YOU POINTED OUT, UH, THE HANDRAILS, SOMETHING WITH THE HANDRAILS.
THE, UH, THE DISTANCE BETWEEN BALLERS.
WELL, THERE WAS THAT, BUT THE MAIN THING IS THAT THE, UH, STRUCTURAL DRAWINGS, UM, EITHER ELIMINATE THE, UH, HANDRAIL OR REVISE IT TO THE STANDARD FOR, FOR THE DISTRICT.
THE STRUCTURAL DRAWING HAD A SECOND, A DIFFERENT DESIGN FOR THE HANDRAILS FOR THE RAMP.
SO THEY HAVE TO EITHER ELIMINATE THAT DETAIL AND REFERENCE THE OTHER ONE OR CHANGE THE DETAIL TO CONFORM.
SO, SO YOU'RE SAYING THE, THAT THE HANDRAIL NEEDS TO BE CON THE HANDRAIL FOR THE RAMP NEEDS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT'S ON THE HOUSE OR WITH THE REQUIREMENTS? YEAH.
SO THE HANDRAIL ON THE RAMP WILL BE THE SAME AS THE HANDRAIL SHOWN FOR DETAIL FOR THE HOUSE.
WITH THOSE FOUR CONDITIONS, UM, I'LL SECOND.
ANY, ANY QUESTIONS, DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION, KIND OF AN INVOLVED MOTION AND SOME DETAILS WITH SOME EXTRAS.
SO ALL IN FAVOR OF, UH, THE MOTION, SAY AYE.
SO WE HAVE APPROVED, UH, WE HAVE APPROVED THE DEMOLITION.
WE HAVE APPROVED THE REDEVELOPMENT.
SO WE NEED A COA TO, TO ISSUE, UH, THE, UH, DEMOLITION AS WELL AS THE REDEVELOPMENT.
ANY DISCUSSION? AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, MR. CHAIR, THE COA IS BEING ISSUED WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY STATED? CORRECT.
ALRIGHT, SO ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, SAY AYE.
SO WE HAVE APPROVED THE DI DEMOLITION AND REDEVELOPMENT AND THERE WILL BE A COA IN THE MAIL IN COMING.
NOW YOU SAID ABOUT A LANDSCAPE PLAN.
UM, THAT'S NOT A PART OF OUR CONTRACT.
THAT'S, IT'S GONNA BE UP TO THE OWNER.
THE LIGHTING FIXTURE, YOU CAN PUT IT IN THERE.
I, I BELIEVE WE ARE OUT OF COA APPLICATIONS FOR TONIGHT.
[5.C. 525 Queen St. – to include removing one door and window; adding one door and window in the Secondary AVC. (Part 2 of 2)]
WE HAD ON HOLD IS NOT HERE.WE NEED TO GO BACK AND REVISIT MR. CHAIR.
UH, THE APPLICATION FOR 5 25 QUEEN STREET.
I, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT APPLICANT IS HERE.
SO THE BOARD MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER CONTINUING THAT APPLICATION TO THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING.
I MOVE, WE CONTINUE THE APPLICATION FOR 5 25 QUEEN STREET TO THE NEXT FORMAL HPC HEARING ON MAY, MARCH 19TH, 5:30 PM AND JUSTIFICATION APPLICANT NOT, NOT PRESENT.
AND YOU SAID MARCH 19TH, RIGHT? YEP.
ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVORS? AYE.
OKAY, SO IF WE ARE DONE WITH, IF WE'RE DONE WITH THE EIGHT, WITH, WITH TONIGHT'S, UH, COA APPLICATIONS, WE CAN MOVE TO OLD BUSINESS, OLD BUSINESS.
[7. GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS]
WE HAVE ANY GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS? NO.I I APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION OF THREE 11 AVENUE C TONIGHT.
IF YOU HAVE BEEN ON SITE, YOU CAN PROBABLY TELL THAT WE DO TRY TO MAINTAIN THE PROPERTY.
WE MOW WEEDY, WE EDGE THE SIDEWALK, THE CURB, AND WE DO TRIM.
UM, IT IS DIFFICULT TO GET TO THE BACKYARD WITH THE HOUSE IN A STRUCTURAL CONDITION THAT'S IN AND THE PODS
[03:30:01]
IN THE SIDE YARD.WE DO INTEND ON MAKING IT LOOK A LOT BETTER, BUT AS YOU CAN TELL, WE HAVE ONE NEIGHBOR THAT LIKES TO COMPLAIN NO MATTER WHAT WE DO.
UM, THE HOUSE HAS HAD TO BE VACATED BECAUSE OF THE CONDITION IT'S IN, AND WE STILL DRIVE ACROSS TOWN AND MAINTAIN IT THE BEST WE CAN.
WE ARE TRYING TO KEEP THE NEIGHBORHOOD UP.
SO I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW IT'S NOT BEING NEGLECTED AND, UM, WELL, IF YOU DIDN'T CARE, YOU WOULD'VE LEFT IT ALONE.
I COULDN'T, IF YOU DIDN'T CARE, YOU WOULD'VE LEFT IT ALONE.
BUT I APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION, I APPRECIATE IT.
AND I JUST THINK WITH THE NEW CONSTRUCTION, YOU'D BE SURPRISED HOW THE LOT WILL CHANGE AND YOU CAN HAVE ACCESS TO THE BACK AND OH YEAH, DEFINITELY.
YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO CLEAN THAT UP.
AND MATT, YOU'LL YOU'LL FOLLOW UP WITH THE LANDSCAPE PLAN, THE REQUIREMENTS AND STUFF WITH HIM.
THEY WON'T GET THEIR, UH, BUILDING AND FINAL BUILDING INSPECTION UNTIL THEY DO.
I THINK YOU HAVE TO SWEAR HIM IN.
IS IT HERE? NO, NO, WE DON'T HAVE GENERAL COMMENTS.
WE FORMALLY CONGRATULATED COLONEL HORTON, THE MOTION TO COLONEL.
PRESERVATION SOCIETY AND THE LITTLE LIBRARY DINNER, UH, OVER THANKSGIVING.
IT'S, UM, TECHNICALLY I'M STILL ON MY COMMUTE HOME RIGHT NOW FROM VIRGINIA, SO I'M, I'M KEENLY AWARE OF THE ALLEY
UM, I JUST WANTED TO SAY, UH, I DO NOT ENVY YOUR POSITION TONIGHT, OTHERWISE I WOULD BE SITTING ON THAT SIDE.
AND MAYBE THAT'S MY LOT OF LIFE IN THE FUTURE.
UM, I, I WOULD OFFER AN OBSERVATION, I THINK SOMETIMES, UM, WHERE THE CITY OF NEWBURN STOPS AND THE COUNTY OF CRAVEN BEGINS IS STARTING TO BECOME A LITTLE BLUR.
AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER I SEE THE STAFF ASSESSMENT AS SOMEBODY WHO'S APPEARED BEFORE THIS BOARD AND THAT STAFF ASSESSMENT, IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND THE OUTCOME.
I UNDERSTAND WHY I ALSO OBSERVED THAT THERE'S MORE CRAVEN COUNTY LAWYERS THAN CITIZENS IN NEWBURN HERE FOR THAT HEARING TONIGHT.
AND THAT, UH, WHEN I TAKE MY WALKS IN THE MORNING, I KNOW THAT THE SCHEDULE FOR THIS IS PUBLICLY POSTED IN MULTIPLE PLACES.
AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, RIGHT OR WRONG PUBLIC OPINION WILL LET YOU KNOW EVENTUALLY AS YOU, AS YOU ALL KNOW.
BUT, UM, I SOMETIMES, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WHERE ONE STOPS AND ONE BEGINS WITH THE ADJUDICATION OF THE GUIDE BOOK RULES SOMETIMES WILL I'LL OFFER FRUSTRATING BY SUBJECT.
THAT'S, THANK YOU FOR SERVING.
THIS IS A COMMENT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THAT, THAT THE CHAIR SAID AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF, OF THIS IS THAT PERSONAL, UM, LIKES OR DISLIKES AREN'T SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN WEIGH IN.
IT REALLY HAS TO DO WITH THE LETTER OF, OF WHAT THE REGULATIONS ARE.
AND SO THAT KIND, YOU HAVE TO KIND OF WORK ALL THAT IN AS WELL.
AND I THINK, AND THIS IS, THIS WILL BE MY LAST ONE, AND I THINK PART OF IT TOO IS, UM, I DON'T THINK THE PURPOSE OF THIS BOARD, WHETHER IT DOES IT INTENTIONALLY OR UNINTENTIONALLY, IS NOT TO, UM, SATISFY BUYER'S REMORSE OF INDIVIDUALS, WHETHER THEY AVEN COUNTY OR SOMEBODY WHO BOUGHT A HOUSE PAN IS BLACK AND THEN REALIZED THEY COULDN'T PUT A MODERN FRONT DOOR ON IT IN RIVERSIDE.
THE FINANCIAL ASPECTS OR THE UTILITY OF THE PROPERTY THEY BOUGHT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASSESSED AHEAD OF TIME.
JUST, JUST PERSONAL OBSERVATION.
YOU KNOW, SO, UM, SO THAT'S ALL I, BUT TO BE FAIR, THEY HAVE ONE LAWYER.
MATT, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE MAY BE SOME OPENINGS IN, YOU KNOW, THE MAY, JUNE TIMEFRAME IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER A, A CHAIR UP HERE.
I KNOW I DON'T MAKE COMMENTS FOR THAT REASON.
BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING, YOU BETTER BE PREPARED TO SIT ON THE OTHER SIDE TO BE A, A PROBLEM SOLVER, NOT JUST A PROBLEM IDENTIFIER.
UM, JUST, YOU KNOW, TONIGHT WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT JUST FROM A PERSONAL OBSERVATION PERSPECTIVE.
SO YEAH, THAT'S THE ONLY TIME WE'LL HEAR FROM YOU ON THIS SIDE, UNLESS I'M PRESENTING SOMETHING FROM MY PROBLEM.
WELL, LET'S MAKE IT YOUR PROBLEM,
YEAH, WE'RE GONNA SEND A NUISANCE GUYS BY THE CITY
[03:35:01]
OKAY.ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER GENERAL COMMENTS? NOPE.
[8.A. APPROVAL OF CHANGES TO MINOR WORKS LIST]
ON.AND I SEE UNDER NEW BUSINESS APPROVAL OF CHANGES TO THE MINOR WORKS LIST, UH, MATT HANDED OUT, UH, THE, UH, THE RESOLUTION, THE DRAFT RESOLUTION, AS WELL AS THE, UH, THE CHANGES.
SO WE'RE DOING THIS, UH, RELATED TO GUIDELINE THE GUIDELINES ON ONE PAGE, ONE DASH 12 OF THE GUIDELINES, AND THEN THE RULES OF PROCEDURE ON PAGE 11.
AND PAGE 24, PAGE 24 SPECIFICALLY, UH, DEALS WITH UPDATING THE MINOR'S LIST.
SO WE'RE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THAT.
UH, MATT, I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED THE ITEMS THAT HAVE, THAT I THINK HAVE CHANGED.
UH, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I HAVE THE MOST RECENT MINORS, THE, THE OLD MINERS WORKFORCE.
DO YOU WANNA POINT OUT, SO THE ONLY CHANGES ON THIS, UH, LAST PROPOSED LIST ARE THE LAST THREE BULLETS ON THE TOP.
OKAY, LAST, LAST FOUR BULLETS.
THOSE ARE, UH, PROPOSED TO BE ADDED.
ANY, UH, OH, AND IN FACT THE, THE FOURTH ONE FROM THE BOTTOM REPLACES, UM, NEW BERN BEARS.
NEW BERN BEARS WAS THE, UM, IT IT'S A BROADER CATEGORY YES.
TO INCLUDE THE, TO INCLUDE THE BEARS.
ANY QUESTIONS ON THE, UH, ON THE RESOLUTION? WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? UM, OR AGAINST I DO WANNA STATE MY POSITION.
WE, WE HAD FENCES ON HERE WHEN YOU ARRIVED IN OUR ROOM THE FIRST TIME AND WE TOOK FENCES OFF BECAUSE THE, THE ISSUE I SEE IS THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN, SHORT OF THE ADMINISTRATOR MAKING SOME INROADS WITH NEIGHBORS, THE FIRST TIME SOMEBODY KNOWS THERE'S GONNA BE A FENCE ON THEIR PROPERTY LINE IS WHEN THE PERSON'S DIGGING THE POST.
AND THAT CAN GENERATE ILL WILL.
AND THAT TELLS ME THAT MAYBE HE CAN DO DEAL WITH SOME THINGS THERE, BUT SECONDLY, SEE IF IT MAYBE OUGHT TO COME BACK TO MAJORS IN THE FUTURE.
BUT WE HAVE HAD DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT PROPERTY LINES, BUT I THINK THE, THE WORST CASE IS WHAT'S THAT GUY DOING IN MY YARD? AND HE'S PUTTING HIS FENCE IN.
UM, I'M SORRY MR. MORRISON, IT'S LATE.
UM, THERE IS A PROVISION IN, UM, CHAPTER ONE 60 D FOR ADMINISTRATIVE DECISIONS.
UM, AND A STAFF ISSUED COA WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN ADMINISTRATIVE DECISION WHEREIN, UM, NOTICE CAN BE GIVEN TO THE PERSON WHO'S RECEIVING THE DECISION TO GIVE NOTICE TO ANYONE WHO MAY HAVE STANDING TO OBJECT.
UM, WE'RE WORKING WITH STAFF NOW TO CREATE A POLICY AND MAYBE SOME FORMS SO THAT WHEN ADMINISTRATIVE DECISIONS, WHETHER THEY'RE FENCES OR OTHER THINGS, UM, PEOPLE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AND THE APPELLATE PERIOD, UM, TO CONTEST THAT THAT DECISION CAN RUN BEFORE SOMEBODY UNDERTAKES A FINANCIAL INVESTMENT OF THAT'D GREAT STARTING THEIR PROJECT AND THEN PERHAPS HAVING TO HALT IT.
BECAUSE IT CAN CREATE EVEN WORSE NEIGHBORHOOD PROBLEMS. IS THERE A SETBACK FOR FENCES OR IS IT RIGHT ON THE FENCE LINE, PROPERTY LINE? NO SETBACKS.
AND MY, MY CONCERN WAS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T TAKE WRITTEN TESTIMONY, BUT SOMEHOW MATT COULD GET A LETTER FROM THE NEIGHBOR, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE THAT IT'S ACTUALLY A LETTER FROM THE NEIGHBOR.
WELL, AND, AND WHAT I'M CONTEMPLATING AND WHAT WE'RE WORKING WITH STAFF IS NOT NECESSARILY TO GET THE, UM, ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS BLESSING OR OBJECTION, UM, BUT TO PUT PEOPLE ON NOTICE THAT A COA HAS BEEN ISSUED IN THE SAME WAY THAT WE DO WITH MAJORS.
SO THAT IF SOMEONE, UM, WANTS TO APPEAL THAT DECISION FOR ANY REASON, THEY HAVE ACTUAL NOTICE OR CONSTRUCTIVE NOTICE, RATHER THEY HAVE THE TIME PERIOD BY WHICH THEY CAN DO IT AND WE HAVE A PROCESS IRONED OUT IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO MAKE A CONTEST.
UM, AND ALSO BEAR IN MIND THAT JUST BECAUSE THE MATTER IS ON THE MINOR WORKS LIST, IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT STAFF HAS CONCERNS ABOUT, THAT ALWAYS CAN BE BROUGHT TO THE FULL BOARD FOR THE FULL BOARD'S CONSIDERATION.
YEAH, I, I, I AGREE WITH, WITH WHAT JAMIE JUST SAID.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE HICCUPS.
UM, BUT I THINK, I THINK WE'VE WORKED FAIRLY WELL AS A TEAM THAT IF MATT IS, IS FEELING SOME HEARTBURN ABOUT SOMETHING AND THERE'S SOME ISSUES AROUND THE FENCE OR WHATEVER, THAT HE'S BEEN PRETTY GOOD ABOUT POINTING THAT OUT AT THE DESIGN REVIEW.
[03:40:01]
AND, YOU KNOW, AT THE DESIGN REVIEW WE CAN SAY, NOPE, WE WANT, YOU KNOW, WE WANT THIS TO GO IN FRONT OF THE, UH, COMMISSION IN A REGULAR MEETING.WE'VE DONE THAT SEVERAL TIMES TOO.
THEN THERE WAS SOME MENTION AT THE LAST DESIGN REVIEW THAT PERHAPS TO ACTUALLY SAY, THIS IS A MINOR, WE NEED TO HAVE A QUO.
IS THAT TRUE? IN ORDER FOR THIS BOARD TO MAKE A DECISION, THERE MUST BE A QUORUM, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT AT A MEETING.
ARGUABLY, DESIGN REVIEW IS A MEETING.
IT'S A MEETING, IT'S A MEETING, Y'ALL.
YOU PUBLISH THE SCHEDULE, THERE'S AN AGENDA.
THERE'S AT LEAST THREE PEOPLE THERE.
THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT APPLICATIONS.
NOW YOU MAY NOT TAKE ACTION, UM, TO APPROVE OR DENY A COA AT THOSE MEETINGS, BUT IT'S A MEETING.
THE BETTER PRACTICE IS IF YOU ARE CUSTOMARILY APPROVING THINGS AS MINOR WORKS, ADD THEM TO THE LIST.
AND THEN IF THERE'S SOME CONCERN OR SOME HEARTBURN ABOUT A PARTICULAR PROJECT, UM, THEN THAT INFORMATION OBVIOUSLY CAN BE BROUGHT TO YOU ALL CONSISTENT WITH YOUR ESTABLISHED PROCEDURES.
AND IF IT'S SOMETHING WE DO SAY, DO TREAT THIS AS A MINOR AND WE'VE HAD A QUO, DO WE NEED THEM MINUTES? YES.
SO, UM, UP UNTIL NOW OR UNTIL RECENTLY, UH, BECAUSE OF THE NO DECISION RULE THAT WE'VE HAD FOR, UH, DESIGN REVIEW, UH, IT'S BEEN, UH, THOUGHT THAT THE CHAIR WOULD BE THE ONE WHO CAN, UH, DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT, UH, UM, AN APPLICATION CAN BE HANDLED AS A MAJOR OR A MINOR IN THEIR JUDGMENT.
BUT, UH, THAT WAS, UH, POINTED OUT TO US THAT THAT'S NOT, UH, AN APPROPRIATE APPROACH.
UH, SO NOW WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY HAVE THE HPC MAKE A DECISION.
AND SO THIS IS CAUSING CHANGES.
I, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING WE'VE EVER DONE, BUT IT JUST, YEAH.
DON'T DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING THAT HAS BEEN EVER DONE.
SO, UH, THE, UH, THE OTHER THING IS, UH, JUST BECAUSE, UM, YOU MAY HAVE SOME FAITH OR TRUST IN MY JUDGMENT, UH, REGARDING WHETHER OR NOT IT, IT GIVES ME PAIN OR NOT, UH, OR SOMETHING TO MAKE A CERTAIN, UH, UH, TO APPROVE A CERTAIN MINOR WORK.
UH, WE ALSO HAVE TO HAVE, UH, PROCEDURES IN PLACE THAT WILL, UH, WORK WHEN I'M NOT HERE, WHETHER IT BE TEMPORARILY OR PERMANENTLY.
UH, 'CAUSE THESE ARE SUPPOSED TO LAST FOR A WHILE.
DO WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE YES, SIR.
NOW, I, I, I NOTE THAT THE RESOLUTION HAS THE INCORRECT DAY ON IT, SO I'M ASSUMING THAT'LL BE TODAY'S DATE.
WELL, I, I MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE, UM, APPROVE THE RESOLUTION REGARDING, UM, THE, UH, DEFINITIONS OF MINOR WORK PERMITTED IN PRIMARY AREA OF VISUAL CONCERN AND MINOR WORK PERMITTED IN SECONDARY AND TERTIARY AREAS OF VISUAL CONCERN.
ANY DISCUSSION? UH, ONE, ONE QUESTION I HAVE, UH, TO, TO MATT, UH, THESE ARE POSTED OUT ON THE WEBSITE, I BELIEVE.
YEAH, I, I THINK I REMEMBER THERE WAS A LIST.
THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE WE ACTUALLY HAVE THEM.
SO THIS, THIS WILL BE UPDATED IN A YES SIR.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION, WE HAVE A SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR OF, UH, THE MOTION TO APPROVE THE RESOLUTION, SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? SAY NO RESOLUTION APPROVED.
OH, ANYTHING ELSE UNDER NEW BUSINESS? NO.
[9. HPC ADMINISTRATOR’S REPORT A. REPORT ON MAJOR COAS DENIED (November 1 to February 5): None B. REPORT ON MAJOR COAS, EXTENSIONS, AMENDMENTS, and CONDITION APPROVALS ISSUED (November 1 to February 5): 211 Pollock St. – AMENDMENT – new signage 212 S. Front St. – front steps and rear modifications with wood stair tower 218 Pollock St. – rear addition 508 C St. - CONDITION APPROVED – new French door on Tertiary AVC. 715 E. Front St. – AMENDMENT – add column and post to rear porch, second floor porch railing posts, shutters & holdback hardware, pent roof over first floor windows, roof extension over stairway window, wide trim board on south wall. 715 E. Front St. – AMENDMENT UPDATE – enumerating the conditions, previously just referenced 720 E. Front St. – AMENDMENT 2 CONDITIONS APPROVED – siding pattern, front door shape, garage doors design 720 E. Front St. – AMENDMENT 3 CONDITIONS APPROVED – mechanical units, exterior lights C. REPORT ON MINOR COAS ISSUED (November 1 to February 5): 208 New St. – gate and fencing (rescinded) 208 New St. – generator 212 S. Front St. ROW – tree replacement 216 Johnson St. – tree replacement 406 Middle St. – storm windows 414 Metcalf St. – small area of replacement siding 506 Craven St. – flue removal 514 E. Front St. ROW – tree replacement About 5 pending D. OTHER ITEMS AND UPDATES BY THE ADMINISTRATO]
AWAY.UM, SO YOU SEE THE REPORTS ON OUR, UH, MAJORS AND MINORS THAT HAVE BEEN ISSUED SINCE NOVEMBER 1ST, UH, BUT ONLY TILL FEBRUARY 5TH, BECAUSE THIS WAS THE AGENDA WE HAD PUBLISHED FOR THE FEBRUARY 19TH MEETING ON FE FEBRUARY 6TH.
UH, AND SO JUST, UH, TO LET YOU KNOW, THERE'S MANY MORE, OR AT LEAST A FEW MORE OF EACH THAT WOULD BE ADDED TO THIS DATE.
UM, I ONLY HAVE, UH, WELL, I'M SORRY, I HAVE NO OTHER ITEMS AND UPDATES.
SO, SO MATT, JUST A QUICK QUESTION ON YOUR REPORT OF, OF MAJOR COAS, WHATEVER, YOU WERE JUST REALLY REPORTING ON ONES THAT HAVE AN, AN UPDATE OR AN AMENDMENT TO THEM.
[03:45:02]
UM, WELL, UH, UNDER B THAT CATEGORY IS FOR ALL MAJOR COAS THAT ARE NEW, THAT HAVE BEEN, UH, ISSUED ANY EXTENSIONS TO EXISTING ONES, ANY AMENDMENTS.AND CONDITIONAL APPROVALS THAT HAVE BEEN, UH, CONDITIONS HAVE BEEN, UH, MET AND APPROVED BY STAFF.
SO ONES THAT WE HAVE MADE OR ANYTHING THAT HAS AN EXTENSION OR AMENDMENT IS LISTED IN THAT CA IN THAT LIST.
SO ANY COAS THAT WE'VE, UH, ISSUED OR ANY CHANGES TO THE ONES THAT WE'VE ISSUED? MM-HMM
AND SOME OF THE AMENDMENTS ARE DONE BY STAFF 'CAUSE THEY'RE MINOR.
SO THAT, THAT'S WHY WE ACTUALLY HAVE ADDED THAT NOW IN THE MINORS LIST TO MAKE THAT FORMALLY ACCEPTABLE.
OR, OR CLARIFY THAT IT'S ACCEPTABLE.
[10. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS]
NEXT ITEM COMMISSIONER COMMENTS.I, I THOUGHT ABOUT ENOUGH OF YOU GUYS.
ALL IN FAVOR OF ADJOURNING, SAY AYE.