[00:00:01]
SURE.[1. OPENING OF MEETING WITH ROLL CALL]
ALL TO ORDER THE AP MEETING OF NEW NEWBORN'S HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.ARE THERE ANY, UH, LET'S HAVE A ROLL CALL FIRST.
ARE YOU READY? WE DO HAVE A QUORUM.
ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA THAT YOU KNOW OF? NONE THAT I KNOW OF.
WE HAVE, UM, CERTIFICATES OF APPRECIATION.
ARE THERE ANY OF THOSE? THERE ARE NONE TONIGHT.
[4. CONSENT AGENDA]
EVERYONE'S GOTTEN COPIES OF THE CONSENT AGENDA THAT THE PAST MEETING MINUTES AND THE, UH, UH, OUTCOMES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS.UM, IF YOU DIGEST THEM AND THERE ARE NO QUESTIONS, COULD WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE? SO, SECOND, MOVE AND SECONDED.
WE APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH CONSISTS OF MINUTES AND, UH, PREVIOUS WRITTEN DECISIONS.
[Additional Item]
I HAVE A FEW OPENING REMARKS.UH, NEW'S, HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION TO PUBLIC COMMISSION APPOINTED BY THE CITY OF NEW BERN'S, BOARD OF ALDERMAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PRESERVING AND SAFEGUARDING NEW BERN'S, LOCALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICTS, DOWNTOWN AND RIVERSIDE, BASED ON US DEPARTMENT OF LABOR OR INTERIOR STANDARDS, STATE STATUTES, CITY ORDINANCES, AND NEWBERG HISTORIC GUIDELINES.
TWO OF THE MAJOR TASKS OF HPC INCLUDE APPROVING APPLICATIONS FOR CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS AND PREVENTING DEMOLITION OF HISTORIC STRUCTURE DUE TO NEGLECT, THE HPC HOLDS QUASI JUDICIAL HEARINGS.
THIS IS ONE ON, ON AN APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS.
THE COMMISSION HERE, SWO SWORN TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, BY PARTIES WHO RECEIVED NOTICE OF THE HEARING AND BY OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT EVIDENCE AND ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE APPLICATION.
THE COMMISSION CANNOT CONSIDER, CANNOT CONSIDER COMMENTS BASED ON PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES.
HEARSAY OR PERSONAL OPINION CAN'T BE DIRECTLY RELATED TO HISTORIC GUIDELINES.
AND LIKEWISE, THE COMMISSIONERS WILL, UH, REFRAIN FROM STATING PERSONAL OPINIONS, ET CETERA.
WE MAKE OUR DECISIONS, UH, ENTIRELY ON THE BASIS OF THE INFORMATION THAT'S PRESENTED AT THE MEETINGS.
CAN WE SWEAR IN TONIGHT'S, UH, SPEAKERS? PRESENTERS? CERTAINLY.
SO ANYONE WHO, UH, WILL BE SPEAKING AT ALL? ANY, PLEASE SPEAKING ON THE YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE.
OH, UH, JIM, CAN YOU PULL THE MICROPHONE CLOSER TO YOUR FACE, PLEASE? HOW'S THAT? I'M OKAY.
CAN YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND PLEASE? DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, AND ASK ABOUT THE TRUTH TO HELP YOU? GOD, I THANK YOU.
YOUR NAME ON THE SHEET OF PAPER HERE AND YOUR ADDRESS WHILE THEY SIGN IN, JUST BRIEFLY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS.
THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR WILL PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION.
THE APPLICANT OR THE REPRESENTATIVE, UM, WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT ON THAT.
UM, PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.
REBUTTAL IS ALLOWED BY THE APPLICANT OR BY PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE.
OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION AND WILL BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.
THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR WILL PRESENT THE STAFF'S FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.
THE APPLICANT, UH, REPRESENTATIVE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE FINAL COMMENTS ON THE APPLICATION.
THE COMMISSIONERS WILL DISCUSS THE EVIDENCE AND ASK FOR CLARIFICATION.
UH, I WILL CALL FOR A MOTION, UH, TO, TO APPROVE OR DENY THE APPLICATION BASED ON THE STATED FINDINGS, AND THE MOTION WILL BE DISCUSSED AND WE'LL VOTE ON IT.
[5.A. 613 Pollock St. (Tryon Palace) – to include the demolition of three non-contributing greenhouses, an outbuilding, and two sheds, and redevelopment with a new greenhouse inside the Tryon Palace compound wall.]
[00:05:01]
READY FOR SIX 13 P*****K STREET, DRY AND PALACE.UM, THIS IS THE APPLICATION FOR SIX 13 OCK STREET.
UM, TRY AND PALACE AS THE OWNER AS LONG AS WELL AS THE STATE.
UH, CHRIS WALKER IS THE APPLICANT, UH, AND WE'LL SEE IN A SECOND.
HE'S BEEN AUTHORIZED BY THE OWNER.
UH, THE DESCRIPTION OF THE PROJECT IS IN THIS VERY TINY PRINT HERE ABOUT A NEW GREENHOUSE, UH, REPLACING OTHER EXISTING, UH, STRUCTURES THERE.
WE'LL, TO BE TALKING ABOUT THAT, THEY LIST A FEW OF THE GUIDELINES AND THE, UH, PRIMARY MATERIALS.
UH, THEY'VE CHECKED OFF THE ITEMS THAT, UM, THEY'VE PROVIDED IN THEIR APPLICATION.
AND, UH, UH, MR. WALKER IS ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE OWNER.
HE SIGNED IT AND DATE DATED IT, AND THIS IS THE, UH, DOCUMENT THAT, UM, AUTHORIZES HIM TO DO SO WITH THE, UM, NOTARIZED SIGNATURE OF THE OWNER.
SO THEY'VE PROVIDED, UM, SORRY, UH, QUITE A FEW PHOTOGRAPHS, UH, OF THE AREA.
WE'LL GO THROUGH SOME OF THEM HERE A LITTLE SLOWER, BUT OTHER ONES A LITTLE QUICKER.
SO IS, OF COURSE, FROM THE OUTSIDE, FROM METCALF STREET.
LOOKING AT THE CURRENT, UH, BUILDINGS THERE, UH, NEXT TO THE GATE, WE HAVE THE, UH, THE SHED WITH THE, UH, HIP ROOF HERE, UH, UH, ON THE END.
AND THEN THE, UM, THE GREENHOUSE HERE IS THE, UH, TWO SLOPING PIECES, OR THREE SLOPING PIECES OF GLASS HERE, AND THE TWO LITTLE CHIMNEYS OR VENT STACKS.
AND THEN THE BACKGROUND IS THE NEW, UM, THE NEW BUILDING THAT'S BEEN, UH, CONSTRUCTED THERE, UH, IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.
SO FROM THE INSIDE, THAT NEW BUILDING IS HERE ON THE RIGHT.
THE EXISTING PRIMARY GREENHOUSE IS HERE, UH, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PHOTO THAT, UH, SHED IS IN THE BACKGROUND OF THAT.
AND THEN THERE'S ALSO A, A SECOND, UH, GREENHOUSE HERE ON THE LEFT.
SO THERE'S THE SHED FROM THE, ESSENTIALLY FROM THE GATE ANGLE, UH, UH, THE GATE OUT TO, UH, METCALF STREET, AND ANOTHER ONE SHOWING A LITTLE BIT MORE AND OF THE SIDE, AND ALSO THEN THAT, UH, THE PRIMARY GREENHOUSE BEHIND THAT.
UH, THEN HERE'S THE GATE TO METCALF.
UH, AND SO THIS SAME BUILDING FROM THIS LEFT CORNER OR THE, UH, SOUTHWEST CORNER, UH, THIS IS THE WESTERN FACADE.
AND NOW YOU CAN SEE THE MAIN, UH, PRIMARY GREENHOUSE ON THE LEFT.
AND THERE IS A CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO.
AND THEN LOOKING BACK TOWARDS THE GATE, UH, AND THE SHED IS HERE ON THE RIGHT, STANDING NEXT TO THE MAIN GREENHOUSE HERE ON THE RIGHT, WHICH YOU CAN'T SEE ON THIS PHOTO.
BUT, UM, WHAT YOU DO SEE IS THERE'S THIS LITTLE, UM, SHELVING UNIT HERE THAT SHOWS UP ON THE PLAN AS A SHED.
AND THIS IS, UH, ANOTHER, I THINK, MORE RECENT PHOTOGRAPH OF THE SHED IN EVEN MORE DILAPIDATED STATE, UH, THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE SHED, THE NORTHEASTERN SIDE CORNER, THE WESTERN SIDE, AND THE, UH, GREENHOUSE.
SO ALL OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE ALSO REQUIRED AS PART OF THE PROCESS TO DOCUMENT WHAT IS TO BE REMOVED.
HERE'S AN INTERIOR PHOTOGRAPH OF THE SHED LOOKING OUT TOWARDS THE GREENHOUSE.
YOU CAN SEE THIS IS THAT CONNECTING, UH, HALLWAY, I GUESS, AND THE DOORWAY TO THE GREENHOUSE, WHICH IS THERE AGAIN.
THEN, UM, WHAT WE DIDN'T SEE BEFORE IS THERE'S ACTUALLY A THIRD GREENHOUSE, UM, UH, AT THE END OF THE PRIMARY ONE OFF TO THE RIGHT, BETWEEN THAT AND THE, AND THE, UM, WALL ALONG THE STREET.
SO WE'LL CALL 'EM GREENHOUSE ONE IS THE MAIN ONE, GREENHOUSE TWO HERE ON THE LEFT, AND THE ONE I JUST SHOWED YOU, GREENHOUSE THREE, I SUPPOSE, FOR CLARITY.
AND THIS IS THE INSIDE OF GREENHOUSE ONE.
AND CHRIS, PLEASE, UH, CORRECT ME IF I MISIDENTIFY ANYTHING, YOU, THIS, THIS BEING GREENHOUSE TWO.
AND THEN NOW YOU'LL SEE, UH, YET ANOTHER SHED ON THE, ON THE LEFT OF THAT ONE.
WE'LL BE LOOKING AT THAT LATER.
[00:10:02]
SOME MORE PHOTOS.AND THIS IS STILL GREENHOUSE TWO WITH GREENHOUSE THREE ON THE RIGHT, GREENHOUSE TWO, THE BACK OF GREENHOUSE TWO.
THE FRONT, LIKE WE SAW BEFORE, LITTLE CLOSER UP AND SEE.
IT'S MORE OR LESS TARPS ON THIS ONE AND NOT SO MUCH GLASS.
AND FROM THE BACKSIDE OF THAT ONE, SO TO SAY, THE, UH, THIS WILL BE THE NORTHWESTERN CORNER.
AND NOW THIS IS THE, UM, PROXIMITY OF THAT, UH, THREE, UM, GREENHOUSE, THREE TO GREENHOUSE TWO, AND GREENHOUSE THREE TO THE WALL.
AND IT'S BASICALLY, IT IS REALLY TARPS.
THEY JUST HAVE 'EM GATHERED UP ON THE GROUND THERE, ROCKS OR SOMETHING HOLDING IT DOWN.
UM, THIS, OH, THAT IS THE, UM, PASSAGEWAY FROM THE SHED TO THE GREENHOUSE ONE, CORRECT? YES.
I THOUGHT IT WAS A DIFFERENT ONE.
AND OUR, UM, A FRAME SHED, THIS IS THE SIDE OF THAT.
WE JUST SAW THE LEFT SIDE OVER HERE.
UH, SO THIS IS THE SIDE THAT'S BASICALLY FACING, UM, GREENHOUSE THREE.
AND THAT IS THE BACKSIDE OF THE, THAT SHED IT.
THE, THIS IS NOW NOT THE WALL ALONG METCALF, BUT IT, THE WALL ALONG METCALF IS IN THE BACKGROUND.
AND SO THIS IS A WALL THAT'S 90 DEGREE TO, UM, METCALF STREET.
AND THAT'S A VIEW BACK, THE OTHER WAY, THAT SAME, UM, UH, WAIT A MINUTE.
THIS IS THE WALL OF METCALF HERE ON THE RIGHT.
AND THAT OTHER WALL WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT IN THE BACKGROUND, THIS IS THE INSIDE OF THAT ONE.
SO, UM, I'M GONNA HAVE TO ZOOM OUT A LOT HERE.
UM, THIS DRAWING IS TO SHOW THE, A LITTLE BIT OUTTA ORDER HERE, BUT, UM, IT SETS UP SOME OF THE OTHER INFORMATION.
THIS IS A DRAWING SHOWING, UH, THE PROPOSED NEW, UH, GREENHOUSE.
IT SHOWS THE EXISTING GREENHOUSE ONE AND THE EXISTING, UM, SHED, UM, WHAT KIND OF SHED DO THEY CALL THAT? THE POTTER SHED? YEAH.
POTTER SHED IN THE FRONT WITH THE, UH, WOOD SHINGLES ON THE ROOF.
UM, SO THEY CAN SEE THE, THE FOOTPRINT OF THOSE AND THE FOOTPRINT OF THE, UH, NEW GREENHOUSE IS QUITE A BIT LARGER, BUT PRIMARILY THIS DRAWING IS TO SHOW WHERE THE FLOODPLAIN LINE IS AND TO SHOW THAT THIS, UH, GREENHOUSE IS WITHIN THE, UH, FLOODPLAIN AREA.
SO DASH LINE, DASHED AREA HERE IS THE FLOODPLAIN, THE OFFICIAL FLOODPLAIN, UM, LET'S SEE, GO BACK AND DOWN.
SO, UH, FROM THOSE SET OF DRAWINGS, IT ALSO SHOWS THEN THE, UH, THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EXISTING, UM, BUILDINGS.
SO THE SHED HERE ON THE BOTTOM AND THE, UH, GREENHOUSE ONE HERE, THE ELEVATIONS OF THE, UH, VARIOUS BUILDINGS.
THIS IS THE, UH, ESSENTIALLY LOOKING AT THE BACKSIDE ON THE BOTTOM HERE, UH, IS THE BACKSIDE OF THE GREENHOUSE ONE, LOOKING BACK AT THE POTTER SHED.
WHEREAS AT THE TOP, UM, THE POTTER SHED IS ON THE LEFT.
AND THE GREENHOUSE IS THIS, UH, GRID OF, UM, ESSENTIALLY GLASS.
AND THE HASH LINE IS THE, UM, THE WALL ALONG METCALF STREET.
SO YOU HAVE AN IDEA AS TO HOW HIGH THE WALL IS COMPARED TO THE OTHER BUILDINGS THAT ARE IN THE, UM, EXISTING, UH, AT THE PALACE THERE.
THEN THIS DRAWING SHOWS THE NEW CONSTRUCTION.
SO, UM, AS I SAID, A LARGER FOOTPRINT.
SO ON THE LEFT, THE POTTER SHED IS GONE.
ALL THE BUILDINGS ARE GONE EXCEPT FOR THE NEW GREENHOUSE.
UH, AND YOU CAN SEE THE HASH LINE IS THE, UM, IS THE WALL ALSO NOTICE THAT, UH, BECAUSE OF THE FLOODPLAIN, UH, THEY HAVE TO ELEVATE THE GROUND, UH,
[00:15:01]
A LITTLE BIT ABOUT TWO FEET, UM, SO THAT THEY CAN BUILD ON TOP OF THAT, UH, ELEVATED PLATFORM.THAT ALSO THEN ADDS SOME RAMPING, WHICH WE'LL ALSO SEE IN THE DESIGN FOR ACCESS.
AND THIS IS JUST THE FLOOR PLAN.
IT'S JUST A RECTANGLE WITH THE DOOR ON EACH END.
ALRIGHT, SO, UH, NOW WE'LL GET INTO, AND WE'LL MAYBE GO A LITTLE QUICKER THROUGH SOME OF THESE.
THESE ARE THE, UM, THE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS.
AND MAYBE I'LL GO EVEN FASTER HERE.
SO THERE'S NOTHING OF NOTE THERE.
HERE'S THE, UH, FLOODPLAIN DRAWING AGAIN HERE ON THE LOWER LEFT.
AND THE FLOOR PLAN HERE IS TO SHOW THE, UM, THE CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR EGRESS.
UH, THIS HAS A BUNCH OF NOTES AND LEGENDS AND SUCH.
ALRIGHT, NOW THIS PLAN, UH, IS THE EXISTING, UH, UH, SITE PLAN SHOWING ALL THE EXISTING BUILDINGS.
SO, UM, I GUESS STARTING IN THE UPPER RIGHT, WE HAVE THE, UM, THE A-FRAME SHED.
WE HAVE, UH, GREENHOUSE NUMBER TWO, THEN GREENHOUSE NUMBER ONE, I'M SORRY, GREENHOUSE NUMBER THREE, NO, SORRY, GREENHOUSE NUMBER TWO, GREENHOUSE NUMBER THREE.
AND THEN GREENHOUSE NUMBER ONE, UH, IS THE LARGEST ONE.
AND THEN THE POTTER SHED AT THE BOTTOM.
UH, THE OTHER BUILDINGS HERE ARE TO REMAIN.
UH, AND THAT PRETTY MUCH IS IT.
AND IT, THIS ALSO SHOWS THE FLOOD PLAIN AND IT ALSO SHOWS, UH, GRADE, UH, GROUND GRADE ELEVATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND THEN THIS IS THE, UH, PROPOSED SITE PLAN OF ALL OF THOSE BUILDINGS GONE.
UH, AND THEN THE NEW GREENHOUSE WITH, UH, TWO ENTRANCE RAMPS, UH, AT ONE AT THE SOUTHERN AND ONE AT THE NORTHERN END.
UH, AND ALSO THE SPACE BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND THE WALL.
UH, DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THAT NUMBER IS, SO, BUT IT IS RELEVANT.
OOPS, SORRY, THAT WAS TOO FAST.
UM, THIS ONE JUST HAS TOPOGRAPHY ON IT, ALONG WITH PROBABLY THE, ALL THE UTILITIES.
THEN WE HAVE, UM, SOME DETAILS ABOUT THE, THE DRAINAGE FOR THE PROPERTY, DRAINAGE PIPES, AND SUCH OTHER PIPE CONNECTIONS.
THIS IS, AGAIN, THE DRAWING ABOUT THE EXISTING BUILDING TO BE REMOVED, OR BUILDINGS TO BE REMOVED IN ELEVATION.
UM, A SERIES OF LEGENDS AND CHARTS.
UH, THIS IS NOW THE FLOOR PLAN FOR THE NEW STRUCTURE, UM, IN MORE DETAIL AS WELL AS THE, UH, RAMPS THAT ARE IN MORE DETAIL.
THE RAMP ON THE FRONT IS, UH, A RAMP THAT JUST GOES, OR ON THE SOUTH SIDE, UH, JUST GOES IN ONE DIRECTION TO THE, TO THE, UH, WEST.
THE RAMP GOES DOWN TO THE WEST, WHEREAS IN THE REAR IT GOES IN TWO DIRECTIONS.
SO THE PLAN FOR THAT ONE IS HERE AT THE BOTTOM, AND THE PLAN FOR THE ONE ON THE SOUTH SIDE IS AT THE TOP.
AND THEN THAT'S JUST A SECTION DETAIL OF, UH, UH, THE MATERIALS CONNECTING TOGETHER AND EXPANSION JOINTS.
SO, UM, THEN THESE ARE OUR FOUR ELEVATIONS OF THE NEW STRUCTURE WITH THE, UH, UM, THE TWO ENDS AT THE TOP.
SO THE SOUTHERN END IS DOWN HERE, IS ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, YOU CAN SEE THE RAMP GOING OFF TO THE LEFT.
AND THEN ON THE BACKSIDE, THE RAMP'S GOING IN TWO DIRECTIONS.
UH, THE GRAY AREA HERE INDICATES, UH, AN AREA WHERE MECHANICAL, UM, FANS AND SUCH WILL BE ATTACHED, CORRECT? YEAH, THAT'S IN A, IN A BAER COOLER NEAR ON THE END OF THE GREENHOUSE.
UH, AND THEN WE HAVE A VENT IN THE TOP OF THAT.
AND THEN ON THE OTHER END, UH, WHAT DO THE X'S REPRESENT? THOSE ARE EXHAUST FANS.
UM, AND THEN ON THE SIDES IT'S ALL GLASS PO AND ON THE ROOF, ALL GLASS.
THE SECTION HERE IS SHOWING, UH, OF COURSE THE WALLS ARE VERTICAL AND THE ROOF IS SLOPING AND, UH, UH, LARGER, UH, VIEW FROM THE INSIDE OF THAT SAME, UH, ELEVATION.
AND WE'RE CUTTING THROUGH THE FLOOR HERE AND WE SEE THAT IT'S A POURED CONCRETE FLOOR, UM, WITH THE TWO, UH, WITH THE EDGES TURNED DOWN TO ACT AS THE FOUNDATION AS WELL.
UH, AND WE'LL SEE HERE IN A MINUTE THE DETAIL ALONG THE EXTERIOR
[00:20:01]
OF THAT CONCRETE FOUNDATION.UM, SOME MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE TWO RAMPS.
SO THIS ONE RIGHT HERE IN THE CAN MAKE THAT BIGGER.
THIS ONE HERE ON THE LOWER RIGHT, UH, SHOWS THAT THE CONCRETE WILL BE FACED IN BRICK, UH, WITH A TOP ROW OF A, UH, SLANTED, UM, ROW LOCK, A ROW OF BRICK AS KIND OF A SILL THAT WOULD SHED THE WATER.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE SOME STRUCTURAL DRAWINGS, WHICH ARE NOT RELEVANT FOR US.
AND THEN FINALLY, IT'S VERY TINY THING AT THE BOTTOM.
IT'S PROBABLY THE ONE THING EVERYBODY'S LOOKING FOR.
AND THAT IS, DANG, THERE WE GO.
SO THIS IS A RENDERING OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IN PERSPECTIVE, UM, FROM METCALF STREET, BIGGER.
SO OBVIOUSLY MOST OF THE BUILDING IS HIDDEN BY THE WALL OR, UH, BUT THE, THE REST OF IT IS POKING ABOVE THE WALL.
UM, THESE TREES ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE TREES THAT ARE THERE.
I KNOW THAT AT LEAST ONE OF THESE TREES IS QUITE LARGE, AT LEAST TWICE THE SIZE OF ONE OF THESE TREES SHOWN HERE.
AND OF COURSE, UM, THEY CAN ALWAYS, UH, UH, DIE AND BE, NEED TO BE REPLACED OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
SO, UM, THAT IS, UH, UH, MAYBE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER, BUT THAT'S ESSENTIALLY THE WAY IT WOULD LOOK FROM THE, UH, FROM THE STREET.
ALRIGHT, NEXT THING I HAVE HERE IS THE, UM, LETTER FROM THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE, UH, WHICH HAS TO REVIEW ALL STATE PROJECTS, UH, THAT MAY HAVE AN EFFECT ON HISTORIC RESOURCES.
UH, AND ESSENTIALLY, UH, READ A LITTLE BIT OFF THE TOP OF HERE.
HAVING REVIEWED THE MATERIALS PROVIDED WE OFFER THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS.
CONSIDERABLE EFFORT APPEARS TO HAVE GONE INTO THE DESIGN AND LOCATION OF THE NEW GREENHOUSE TO LESSEN ITS IMPACT FROM PRIMARY VIEW SHEDS AND PRESERVE THE AMBIANCE OF THE RECREATED OR RECREATED 18TH CENTURY MUSEUM SITE.
ALTHOUGH THE ROOF OF THE EXISTING GREENHOUSE IS MINIMALLY A VISIBLE ABOVE THE EAST BRICK WALL, THE HEIGHT OF THE NEW GREENHOUSE WILL INCREASE ITS VIBE, VISIBILITY BEYOND THE WALL.
HOWEVER, THE EXISTING TREES BETWEEN THE WALL AND STREET HELP ADDRESS POSSIBLE ISSUES WITH THIS VISIBILITY.
WHILE WE UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO ELEVATE THE PROPOSED GREENHOUSE DUE TO THE LOW ELEVATION AND FLOOD POTENTIAL OF THE SITE, THE INCREASED HEIGHT, APPROXIMATELY TWO FEET OF THE NEW BRICK FOUNDATION, ALONG WITH THE REMOVAL OF THE WOOD SHED, WOODEN SHED WILL INCREASE THE VISIBILITY OF THE NEW GREENHOUSE FROM METCALF STREET AND POSSIBLY CORE AREAS OF THE MUSEUM PROPERTY.
IT IS OUR OPINION THAT SOME TYPE OF SCREENING ADJUSTMENT TO THE NEW GREENHOUSE, SUCH AS ADDITIONAL VEGETATION OR A PERIOD APPROPRIATE STRUCTURE, WILL HELP MINIMIZE THIS VISUAL IMPACT.
WE ARE THEREFORE READY TO ASSIST BRIAN PALACE IN DETERMINING IF ADDITIONAL SCREENING IS DESIRABLE FOLLOWING COMPLETION OF THE GREENHOUSE.
SO, AND THEN WE HAVE OUR ZONING AND INSPECTIONS REPORT, UM, FOR SIX 13 P*****K STREET.
UH, AND ESSENTIALLY THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR HAS INDICATED THAT A DEPARTMENTAL SITE PLAN REVIEW IS REQUIRED FOR THIS.
UM, AND PER AND THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR THAT PERMITS TO ARE TO BE OBTAINED FROM THE STATE CONSTRUCTION OFFICE, UM, FOR STATE PROJECTS, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.
SO THE CITY HAS NO JURISDICTION OVER THOSE, UH, PERMITS.
OTHER THAN THAT, I'M READY WITH YOUR RE MY, OUR REPORT WHEN YOU'RE READY.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO CONTRIBUTE? NO, I THINK YOU COVERED IT PRETTY WELL.
[00:25:01]
YOU WANT ME TO STEP UP? YEAH.AND COULD YOU INTRO INTRODUCE YOURSELF? HAVE A, UH, CAN YOU SPEAK IN THE MICROPHONE PLEASE? YEAH.
HI, I'M ROSE WILLIAMS. I LIVE AT TWO 20 METCALF STREET.
AND I JUST HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
MAY, UH, GREENHOUSE ARE DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM OUR HOUSE.
MA'AM, DID YOU RECEIVE A LETTER ABOUT TODAY'S HEARING? NO.
AND, UM, WE'VE OWNED THE HOUSE SINCE 1984, GREW UP IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, SO WE'VE SEEN LOTS OF THINGS EVOLVE.
THE CURRENT GREENHOUSES THAT ARE THERE WHEN THEY'VE HAD SOME ALTERATIONS FROM TIME TO TIME.
UM, WHAT HAS HAPPENED NOW WITH THE MATERIALS THAT ARE CURRENTLY, I THINK ON THE MAIN ONE WHEN THE WESTERN SUN HITS THEM, IT REFLECTS ON MS. WILLIAMS, MS. WILLIAMS, UM, I DON'T QUITE REMEMBER IF YOU WERE SWORN IN, WERE YOU SWORN IN AT THE BEGINNING? NO, I ASKED AND THEY YOU SAID BECAUSE, UM, IF IT WAS JUST PUBLIC, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO OH YEAH.
BUT IF YOU'RE TESTIFYING HERE IN FOR THE HEARING, YOU WILL HAVE TO BE SWORN IN.
YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? I DO.
AND THEN PUT YOUR NAME AND, AND ADDRESS ON THE FORM THERE, PLEASE.
AND MR. CHAIR, WALK AWAY SO THEY WON'T HAVE TO SAY YES, MR. CHAIR, SINCE SHE HAS NOW, SINCE SHE'S UNDER OATH, IF YOU WANT TO ADOPT HER PREVIOUS TESTIMONY, UM, AT THIS PORTION OF THE HEARING, THAT MAY BE APPROPRIATE.
HOW DO YOU DO THAT? IF I WANT TO, WHAT NOW? YEAH.
THE BOARD SHOULD ADOPT HER PREVIOUS TESTIMONY THAT WAS GIVEN BEFORE SHE WAS UNDER OATH.
UNLESS YOU WANT HER TO REPEAT I'D, I CAN MAKE A MOTION TO, TO APPROVE HER PREVIOUS TESTIMONY, UM, BEFORE SHE WAS FORMALLY SWORN IN SECOND.
MOVE SECOND TO APPROVE THE TESTIMONY BEFORE THE SWEARING IN.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT YOURSELF.
SO THE CURRENT, UM, GLASS MATERIALS THAT ARE THERE WHEN THE WESTERN SUN HITS THOSE, IT REFLECTS BACK ON THE HOUSES ON METCALF STREET.
SO IF YOU'RE IN THE FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE ANYWHERE DOWN THAT STREET, IT'S BLINDING.
SO I WOULD JUST ASK THAT WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING SCREENING, THE ONE TREE THAT'S BIGGER THAN THE OTHER, THEY'RE ALL THE SAME VARIETY, BUT THE DRAINAGE PIPE FROM WHERE THEY USE FERTILIZER ACTUALLY GOES TO WHERE THE BIGGER TREE IS.
SO JUST, JUST FOR THE SAKE OF KNOWLEDGE, THAT'S WHY WE ACTUALLY HELP PLANT THOSE TREES.
BUT THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT I HAVE IS, UM, WHEN THEY WENT TO BUILD WHAT IS NOW THE STORAGE BUILDING THAT THEY HAVE, IT'S, IT'S QUITE LARGE THAT'S THERE.
AND I'M SORRY THAT I DON'T KNOW THE APPROPRIATE NAME OF THIS PIECE OF EQUIPMENT, BUT I'M SURE YOU'VE ALL SEEN THEM WHEN THEY'RE PAVING ROADS AND STREETS.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS A BIG HEAVY ROLLER.
UM, THEY DIDN'T KEEP IT ON SITE, SO IT WOULD HAVE TO COME DOWN THE STREET EVERY MORNING AND GO ONTO SITE AND, UM, IT HAS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF VIBRATION BECAUSE IT HAS TO MAKE THE, THE SOIL AND THE ROCK AND EVERYTHING ELSE SETTLE BEFORE THEY CAN DO A FOUNDATION ON IT.
WHAT HAPPENED WAS MANY OF US, INCLUDING ME, UM, OUR FOUNDATION CRACKED, UH, EVERY WALL, EVERY CEILING, WINGS, COATING, MOLDING, EVERYTHING CRACKED AND SHIFTED.
I CONTACTED, UH, DANA OUTLAW, WHO WAS THEN THE MAYOR, AND THEY LOOKED INTO IT AND BECAUSE OF JURISDICTION THERE WAS NOTHING THAT THEY COULD DO.
SO WE DID CONTACT, UM, TRY AND PALACE.
THEY HAD HAD QUITE A FEW COMPLAINTS FROM P*****K STREET TO METCALF STREET.
PEOPLE WERE HAVING ALL KINDS OF STRUCTURAL ISSUES BECAUSE OF THIS SPECIFIC KIND OF PIECE OF EQUIPMENT.
IN THE END, WE PAID THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR REPAIRS.
UH, WE SAW, WE SAW, UH, ATTORNEYS, BUT THEY SAID, GOOD LUCK.
IT STAYED, IT'LL TAKE YOU FOREVER TO GET, GET PAID FOR IT.
SO WE LITERALLY SPENT IT OURSELVES.
BUT I WOULD QUESTION, UH, TRY AND PALACE, SO TO SPEAK, ARE THEY GONNA USE THAT SAME KIND OF EQUIPMENT? BECAUSE I COULD ONLY ASSUME WE WOULD HAVE SIMILAR PROBLEMS. OKAY.
COULD YOU COMMENT ON THAT PHILOSO? I'M NOT, DO YOU KNOW WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT OR, YEAH, I KNOW WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT, BUT I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT EQUIPMENT THEY'RE GONNA BRING ONTO THIS SIDE.
I'D HAVE TO GET MY CIVIL ENGINEER ON TO, TO SEE WHAT THAT WOULD BE.
I MEAN, WE CAN, WE CAN BRING UP THAT CONCERN AND POSSIBLY THEY CAN BRING IT IN FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF, YEP.
MS. PALACE, MS. WILLIAMS, WAS IT WHILE THEY WERE OPERATING ON
[00:30:01]
SITE OR WAS IT WHEN THEY WERE BRINGING THE EQUIPMENT ONTO THE SITE? UH, BOTH BECAUSE THEY WERE ACTUALLY, UH, STORING THE EQUIPMENT AROUND THE CORNER ON SOUTH FRONT STREET IN THE PARKING LOT THAT WAS NEXT TO WHAT WAS THEN TRYING HOUSE SEAFOOD.SO WHEN THEY WERE STARTED UP IN THE MORNING, IT'S COMING DOWN THE STREET.
YOU CAN IMAGINE A BIG HEAVY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT LIKE THAT.
THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF VIBRATION.
BUT ONCE THEY GOT IT THROUGH THE GATES, THEN THAT WENT ON FOR LIKE ALL DAY.
AND THAT WAS FOUR WEEKS THAT THEY DID THAT.
UM, UNFORTUNATELY, LIKE I SAID, WE ENDED UP SUFFERING THE COST OF THAT.
AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT MAYBE THERE'S NOT AT ALL P
SO THEY HAD ALL THE CONCRETE TRUCKS RUNNING AT FULL SPEED FOR DAYS AND DAYS AND DAYS AND THEY WERE HANDCAR IT IN.
SO AGAIN, WE QUESTIONED, WHY CAN'T YOU COME FROM THE EDEN STREET SIDE AND COME THROUGH THERE? AND THEY PRETTY MUCH TOLD US THAT, WELL, IT WOULD AFFECT THE TOURISTS.
BUT WE HAD LIKE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
SO THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT'S CON WHICH OCCURRED ONLY DURING THE CONSTRUCTION.
IT'S NOT AN ONGOING SITUATION.
NO, ONLY DURING THE CONSTRUCTION.
AND ONLY THAT PARTICULAR PART WHEN THEY WERE, UM, DOING FOUNDATIONS AND STUFF LIKE THAT MM-HMM
ONCE THEY STARTED DOING CONSTRUCTION WHERE THEY WERE PUTTING THE BUILDING UP.
YOU DIDN'T, YOU DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM ANYMORE, BUT BY THAT TIME, ALL THE DAMAGE WAS DONE.
I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT, BUT APPRECIATE YOU TELLING ME WE BRING IT UP DURING THE CONSTRUCTION AND TALK TO THE CONTRACTOR ABOUT THAT.
YOU, YOU'RE GONNA WORK WITH THE CONTRACTOR TO, I WILL MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
UH, ARE THERE ANY OTHER OPPONENTS OR, UH, PROPONENTS WHO, UH, HAVE RECEIVED A NOTIFICATION, A LETTER FROM THE CITY WHO WISH TO ADDRESS THE PROJECT? ARE THERE ANY PRESENT WHO DIDN'T RECEIVE A LETTER BUT THINK THEY HAVE, UH, AN ISSUE WITH THE CONSTRUCTION THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? OKAY.
WE'RE READY FOR STAFF FINDINGS.
SO THIS IS THE STAFF REPORT FOR THE, UH, PROJECT AT SIX 13 P*****K STREET FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA AND TRIUM PALACE.
UH, CHRIS WALKER OF THE WALKER GROUP IS THEIR AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE.
UM, THE HISTORIC PROPERTY NAME, OF COURSE, IS THE TRIUM PALACE, UM, BUILT 1767 TO 1770, AND THEN, UH, THROUGH 1952 TO 59 WAS THE RESTORATION.
UH, AND IT IS INDEED A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE IN THE HISTORIC, UH, DISTRICT.
THE, UH, THE PROJECT FOR SIX 13 P*****K STREET IS TO INCLUDE THE DEMOLITION OF THREE NON-CONTRIBUTING GREENHOUSES AND OUTBUILDING, AND TWO SHEDS AND REDEVELOPMENT WITH A NEW GREENHOUSE ALL INSIDE THE TRIUM PALACE COMPOUND WALL.
UH, THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT INVENTORY DESCRIPTION WAS SEVERAL PAGES, UH, I'M SORRY FOR THE INVENTORY WAS, UH, UH, PRIMARILY THIS GEORGIAN STYLE AND BRICK FLEMISH BOND.
THREE UNITS CONSISTING OF A TWO AND A HALF STORY MAIN HOUSE, AND TWO, TWO STORY FLANKING DEPENDENCIES POSITIONED IN ADVANCE OF THE HOUSE TO CREATE A FORECOURT AND CONNECTING IT TO IT BY CURVED COLONNADES.
HIP ROOFS ARE SLIGHTLY CONCEALED BEHIND PARAPETS.
IN THE 1950S, THE COMPLEX WAS RECONSTRUCTED ON ITS 18TH CENTURY FOUNDATIONS, AND THE ORIGINAL SURVIVING WESTERN DEPENDENCY WAS RESTORED.
UM, THE SANDECK DESCRIPTION WAS INDEED THREE PAGES THAT STARTED WITH, I WON'T READ YOU ALL THREE PAGES.
PRESENT DAY TRIUM PALACE STANDS AS ONE OF THE, THIS COUNTRY'S MOST ACCURATELY ACCURATE AND THOROUGHLY DOCUMENTED RECONSTRUCTIONS OF A MAJOR COLONIAL PERIOD STRUCTURE.
IT WAS REBUILT ON ITS ORIGINAL FOUNDATIONS DURING THE 1950S WITH ITS EXTERIOR PLAN AND MUCH OF THE INTERIOR BASED UPON THE SURVIVING ORIGINAL PLANS DRAWN IN 17 7 66 BY THE ARCHITECT JOHN HAWKS.
UH, THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE GROUNDS OTHER THAN THE GARDENS BEING DESIGNED BY LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT MORLEY J WILLIAMS.
[00:35:01]
UH, SO NOT MUCH HELPFUL INFORMATION FOR US REGARDING, UH, THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.UM, SO STAFF SUPPORT SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING EXCERPTS FROM THE HISTORIC DISTRICT PRINCIPLES AND DESIGN STANDARDS, ALSO KNOWN AS THE GUIDELINES ARE APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION.
THE PROCESS FOR WHICH CONSISTS OF TWO DELIBERATIONS.
FIRST DELI, UH, REGARDING DEMOLITION, AND IF DEMOLITION IS APPROVED, THEN REDEVELOPMENT.
SO DELIBERATION ONE FOR DEMOLITION.
THE PROCESS FOR DECIDING WHETHER TO APPROVE A DEMOLITION IN THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICTS IS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FOR CONTRIBUTING AND NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
THE STANDARD STATE, A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IS AT LEAST 50 YEARS OLD AND IS LISTED IN THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR'S HISTORIC DISTRICT INVENTORY STRUCTURES.
THE INVENTORY IS CREATED AS PART OF THE PROCESS FOR DESIGNATING THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS.
AS BUILDINGS REACH 50 YEARS IN AGE, THEY MAY ALSO BE CONSIDERED CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
AT LEAST 50 YEARS OF AGE WOULD BE BUILT IN 1975 OR EARLIER.
THE 1970 AERIAL IMAGE AT WRIGHT SHOWS NO GREENHOUSE AT THAT LOCATION.
SO THE EXISTING GREENHOUSE WASN'T THERE IN 1970.
IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER, HISTORIC DISTRICT INVENTORY, THE MAIN BUILDING IS SHOWN AS CONTRIBUTING.
THE MAIN BUILDING OF TRY AND PALACE IS SHOWN AS CONTRIBUTING, BUT THERE IS NO MENTION IN THE INVENTORY OF ANY OF THE ACCESSORY BUILDINGS.
SO THE STANDARDS, UH, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT STANDARDS STATE, WHEN A COA APPLICATION INVOLVES A STRUCTURE NOT LISTED IN THE INVENTORY, THE FIRST STEP IS TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
UH, AND THE FIRST BULLET IS ANY UNLISTED BUILDING 50 YEARS OF AGE OR GREATER WILL BE EVALUATED FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE STATUS.
AN UNLISTED BUILDING DETERMINED TO BE MORE THAN 50 YEARS OF AGE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE TREATED AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
IF THE HPTC DETERMINES THAT IT HAS NO ARCHITECTURAL CULTURAL OR HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, AND THE STRUCTURE LESS THAN 50 YEARS OF AGE WILL BE CONSIDERED NON-CONTRIBUTING UNLESS THE HPC FINDS THAT IT CLEARLY POSSESSES EXCEPTIONAL ARCHITECTURAL, CULTURAL OR HISTORICAL MERIT.
SO, UH, WE INSERT THE COMMENT AT THIS POINT IN THE QUOTE FROM THE STANDARDS THE HPC CAN DISCUSS IF THESE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ARE MORE OR LESS THAN 50 YEARS OF AGE, AND WHETHER THEY HAVE ANY ARCHITECTURAL, CULTURAL OR HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OR MERIT THE EIGHT.
AND THEN CONTINUING WITH THE, UH, QUOTE FROM THE STANDARDS.
SECOND BULLET IS THE AGE OF THE STRUCTURE WILL BE BASED ON RELEVANT INFORMATION INCLUDING TAX ASSESSOR DATA DEEDS, HISTORICAL SURVEYS, MAPS, AND PICTURES OF VERIFIABLE SOURCES AND DATES.
HPC WILL ALSO CONSULT WITH THE SHIPPO AND ASK FOR A DOCUMENT DOCUMENTED DEVALUATION.
IN THE EVENT THAT THE HPC AND SHIPPO CANNOT MAKE A REASONABLE DETERMINATION OF THE AGE, THE APPLICANT SHALL HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF STIPULATING THE AGE.
SO STEPH AGAIN INSERTS THE COMMENT.
UH, THE 1958 VERSION OF THE SANBORN MAPS DOES NOT SHOW ANY ACCESSORY BUILDINGS OTHER THAN THE TWO HOUSES ON P*****K STREET, UH, ON THE ENTIRE SITE FLANKING THE MAIN GATE.
THE TAX ASSESSOR DATA AND DEEDS HAVE NO INFORMATION ABOUT THE SUBJECT BUILDINGS.
A SHIPPO LETTER IS INCLUDED IN THE HEARING PRESENTATION PACKAGE.
THIRD BULLET IS FINDINGS AND RELEVANT INFORMATION LEADING TO CONTRIBUTING STATUS WILL BE DOCUMENTED.
AND FOURTH, OH, AND WE ADD IF CONTRIBUTING STATUS IS DETERMINED, DOCUMENTATION SHOULD BE PROVIDED.
AND THEN THE FOURTH BULLET IS IF THE DETERMINATION OF A STRUCTURE IS BASED SOLELY UPON AGE, PROPERTY OWNER MAY REQUEST A DETAILED CHIP O REVIEW TO CONFIRM ITS STATUS FOLLOWING CHIP O REVIEW.
THE HPC WILL CONSIDER THE EVALUATION IN MAKING A FINAL DETERMINATION.
STAFF RECOMMENDS HPC VOTE TO DETERMINE IF THE ACCESSORY BUILDINGS ARE CONTRIBUTING OR NON-CONTRIBUTING BEFORE PROCEEDING FURTHER.
SO YOU NEED TO KIND OF DISCUSS IF YOU THINK THE BUILDINGS, UH, THE, THE, THE THREE GREENHOUSES, THE POTTER SHED, UH, AND THE, UM, THE OTHER, UM, SHED AND THAT SHELVING UNIT ARE ANY OF WHICH ARE, UM, CONTRIBUTING? NO.
SO EVERYONE HAS HEARD THE, THE PRESENTATION.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR INPUTS ON THAT IN TERMS OF IT BEING A, UH, A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE OR NOT? I THINK WE'VE HEARD NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE, YEAH, I DO.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING THAT, UH, WARRANTS, UM,
[00:40:01]
CLASSIFYING THEM AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.ANY OF THEM ALL? IS IT, ARE WE CALLING, ARE WE COUNTING THAT SHELVING UNIT AS SHED MATT? OR IS THAT A SEPARATE YES, THAT'S SO, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THREE SHEDS AND THREE GREENHOUSES.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? WE SHOULD VOTE AT THIS POINT ON WHETHER IT TO BE CONTRIBUTING OR NOT.
RIGHT? AND YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE SOME TERMINOLOGY THAT INCLUDES ARCHITECTURAL, CULTURAL OR HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OR MERIT.
I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION THEN.
DOES THIS BUILDING BE CONSTRUED AS NON-CONTRIBUTING WITH THE APPROPRIATE LANGUAGE THAT MATT HAS DESCRIBED? MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT, UH, THE PROPOSED, UH, STRUCTURES FOR DEMOLITION, UH, FROM EVIDENCE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE GREATER THAN 50 YEARS OLD.
THERE'S NO ARCHITECTURAL, HISTORICAL OR CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, UH, TO THE STRUCTURES THAT, THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED OR THAT WE CAN IDENTIFY.
UH, SO, UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
SECOND, NON CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES, SECOND MOVED AND SECONDED THAT WE DEEM THIS STRUCTURE OR IS NON-CONTRIBUTING.
OPPOSED? THEY ARE NON-CONTRIBUTING.
SO, UM, SO THEN, NOW DEMOLITION CANNOT BE DENIED FOR A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
DEMOLITION OF A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE REQUIRES TWO PART COA, WHERE DEMOLITION IS FIRST CONSIDERED, AND IF ALLOWED, FOLLOWED BY CONSIDERATION OF THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.
DEMOLITION SHALL NOT PROCEED UNLESS BOTH PARTS OF THE COA ARE APPROVED IN EITHER CASE, UH, UNLESS BOTH PARTS OF THE COA ARE APPROVED.
SO THEN FOR GUIDELINES FOR DEMOLITION, IF THE HPC HAS TO DETERMINE THAT THE STRUCTURES A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, YOU WOULD USE OR REFERENCE 6.41.
UM, OTHER POSSIBLE RELEVANT GUIDELINES WOULD BE, UH, FOR THE HPC TO RES, UH, PRE 6.44, PREPARE DRAWINGS AND PHOTOGRAPHICALLY DOCUMENT THE SITE PRIOR TO DEMOLITION INCLUDE PHOTOGRAPHS OF INTERIORS, EXTERIORS, ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS AND CONTEXT WITHIN THE STREETSCAPE.
WE DID SEE THOSE IF YOU FEEL THAT WAS SUFFICIENT.
AND THEN, UH, 6.4 0.5 TO NOTIFY PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS AND ALLOW FOR THE SALVAGE OF DESIGN COMPONENTS, ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES, AND BUILDING MATERIALS FOR REUSE.
IN ADDITION, THE GUIDELINES STIPULATE IN RENDERING A DECISION ON DEMOLITION COA.
THE HPC SHOULD ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING THREE CONSIDERATIONS.
CONSIDERATION, ONE, TO ADDRESS THE HISTORICAL, CULTURAL, AND ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STRUCTURE, UH, WHICH YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE.
UH, AND TO ADDRESS THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE.
UH, WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS OF THE FOUNDATION'S? FLOORS, WALLS, WINDOWS, DOORS, AND ROOFS OF THESE VARIOUS BUILDINGS.
UH, AND STAFF HAS INDICATE, UH, UM, UH, SUGGEST THAT EACH STRUCTURE IS DIFFERENT.
JUDGING FROM THE PHOTOS PROVIDED SOME OF THESE PARTS ARE IN TERRIBLE CONDITIONS.
SOME ARE OBSOLETE AND SOME ARE IN GOOD CONDITION.
UH, SECONDLY, IS IT A HAZARD TO PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE? UM, AGAIN, STAFF SUBMITS THAT EACH STRUCTURE IS DIFFERENT.
JUDGING FROM THE PHOTOS PROVIDED THE SOUTHERN MOST STRUCTURE WITH A HOLE IN THE ROOF AND PIECES FALLING OFF COULD BE A SAFETY HAZARD.
UH, IS TO ADDRESS ATTEMPTED PRESERVATION EFFORTS.
UH, SO HAVE OPTIONS FOR REHABILITATION BEEN EXPLORED WITH PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS? UH, STAFF IS UNAWARE OF ANY SUCH ATTEMPTS.
HAS THE APPLICANT BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL IN SEEKING ALTERNATIVES? DEMOLITION STAFF IS UNAWARE OF ANY OF SUCH ATTEMPTS AT THAT AND HAVE ALTERNATIVES FOR STRUCTURE, RELOCATION AND SALE OF THE PROPERTY BEEN PURSUED AND STAFF IS UNAWARE OF ANY SUCH ATTEMPTS.
UM, SO THEN STATEMENTS OF FACT, BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION AND STAFF'S JUDGMENT, R ONE, THE PROJECT IS A PROPOSAL TO DEMOLISH SEVERAL NON-CONTRIBUTING ACCESSORY STRUCTURES IN THE NEW BERN LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
TWO, THE DEMOLITION OF NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES MAY NOT BE DENIED.
THE PROPOSED REDEVELOPMENT FOR THE SITE WILL NEED TO BE APPROVED BY THE HPC AND LIBERATION TWO BEFORE A COA AND A DEMOLITION PERMIT MAY BE ISSUED.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND FIVE, THE DEMOLITION OF THESE STRUCTURES IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS AND THE HPC SHALL DELIBERATE ON THIS FIRST SEGMENT OF THE PROCESS BEFORE PROCEEDING TO DELIBERATION.
[00:45:03]
WE'RE NOT GONNA VOTE ON THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE NO SAY IN WHETHER IT'S DEMOLISHED OR NOT, RIGHT? NO, YOU VOTE.ARE THERE ANY DISCUSSION? WELL, GOOD, BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE CONDITIONS.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION QUESTIONS? NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO HEARING NONE.
READY FOR MOTION? UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I, I'D LIKE, UH, A, A MOVE THAT WE FIND THAT THE APPLICATION FOR, UH, DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURES, UH, AS DEFINED IN THE APPLICATION LOCATION.
UH, WE APPROVED THE DEMOLITION, UH, AT, UH, 6 6 13 P*****K STREET, UH, THAT IT IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH NEW BRUIN'S CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTIONS 15 DASH FOUR 11 TO 15 DASH 4 29 AND ER, HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT, 6.4 0.1, UH, SAYS THAT A, A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, UH, CANNOT, WE CANNOT DENY THE DEMOLITION OF THAT.
6.4 0.3 HAS TO DO WITH, UH, PO POSTPONING THE DEMOLITION INTO DEVELOPMENT AND, UH, BUILDING PERMITS, UH, ARE APPROVED.
UH, AS FAR AS THE CONSIDERATIONS ARE CONCERNED, I THINK CONSIDERATION ONE, WE HAVEN'T CLEARED THE HURDLE THERE IN THE SENSE THAT THERE IS NO HISTORIC CULTURAL OR ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STRUCTURE.
SO THE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS ARE SOMEWHAT MOOT.
UH, FINDINGS OF FACT, UH, THE, UH, THE PROJECT IS A PROPOSAL TO ABOLISH NOT NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
UH, THE DEMOLITION INVOLVES NON-CON, UH, THE DEMOLITION OF NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES CANNOT BE DENIED.
THE REDEVELOPMENT FROM THE SITE PLAN, UH, NEEDS TO BE APPROVED.
UH, BEFORE WE CAN ISSUE A COA TO DEMOLISH, UH, ZONING, ADMINISTRATOR AND CHIEF, UH, CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THE PROJECT AND COMMENTED ON THAT, AND THE DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURES IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH NEW BERN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, SIR? SECOND.
DID YOU ALL HEARD IT ALL IN FAVOR? STATE? AYE.
ALRIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE REDEVELOPMENT.
UM, POINTS OF HPC POLICY, THE POLICIES AND RULES OF PROCEDURE ADOPTED BY THE HPC FOR EVALUATING A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN INCLUDE ONLY TWO SENTENCES.
ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION PROPOSED FOR THE SITE WILL BE EVALUATED BASED ON HISTORIC GUIDELINES FOR INFILL CONSTRUCTION.
A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN MUST INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS AS CONDITIONS FOR APPROVAL OF THE REDEVELOPMENT PLAN, A REVIEW AND PRELIMINARY APPROVAL BY THE BUILDING INSPECTOR AND A REASONABLE TIMEFRAME FOR COMPLETION OF REDEVELOPMENT.
THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR AND THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR HAVE REVIEWED THE PROPOSED SKETCHES AND HAVE COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
SO THAT SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THE FIRST ONE.
TIMEFRAME FOR COMPLETION OF THE PROJECT HAS NOT YET BEEN PROPOSED.
SO STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING.
HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES ARE APPROPRIATE TO THIS PORTION OF THE APPLICATION BASED ON THE PLANS AND DESCRIPTIONS PROVIDED AT THE TIME OF THE PREPARATION OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR UTILITIES.
2.3, 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND SIX FOR LANDSCAPING.
2.4 0.3 AND FIVE FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.
2.6 0.1 FOR DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1 FOR INFILL CONSTRUCTION, 3.4 0.3 AND FOUR FOR FOUNDATIONS.
4.35 AND SIX FOR WALLS, TRIM AND ORNAMENTATION, 4.25 FOR ACCESSIBILITY AND LIFE SAFETY.
AND CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS 5.512 AND THREE.
STATEMENTS OF OF FACT BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION ARE THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IS LOCATED IN THE NEW BERN LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE PROJECT IS AN INFILL ACCESSORY GREENHOUSE STRUCTURE.
THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, ALSO KNOWN AS GUIDELINES.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND THE APPLICATION IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES.
[00:50:01]
THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.REVISED PLANS ACCORDING TO THE CHANGES ACC AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING SHOULD BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES AND PRIOR TO BEGINNING CONSTRUCTION OR TWO REVISED OR NEW PLANS THAT SHOW THE LOCATION OF EXTERIOR MECHANICAL UNITS, EXTERIOR LIGHTING AND LANDSCAPING THAT MINIMIZES THE VISUAL IMPACT OF THE FOUNDATION.
WALLS SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES AND PRIOR TO BEGINNING CONSTRUCTION.
THAT'S THE END OF OUR STAFF REPORT.
I, THE, THE ISSUE THAT RICHARD, I'M SORRY.
I DO HAVE A QUESTION, UM, RICHARD, ABOUT YOUR, THE ISSUE THAT YOU BROUGHT UP AT THE WORKSHOP, THE, UH, THE, THE DRAIN AND THE CISTERN, HAS THAT BEEN SATISFIED TO YOUR I'M SATISFIED FROM THE DOCUMENTS THAT MR. SHELLEY PRODUCED THAT.
IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE GONNA SAY? YES.
OTHER QUESTIONS? CONCERNS? NOW WE HAVE AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE REPLACING, REPLACING AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
UM, THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE, AND I KNOW THE STATE IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE, THE WALL HEIGHT THAT I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S A GUIDE ON THAT WE HAVE THAT REFERENCES HOW HIGH SOMETHING CAN BE A BEYOND A WALL OF FENCE.
IS THAT TRUE? UH, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.
THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, YEAH.
SO IT'S AN ISSUE WITH THE STATE AND, YOU KNOW, WE DO ENCOURAGE THEM TO WORK WITH YOU AND HAVE MORE TREES PERHAPS ON, I THOUGHT WE ADDRESSED THAT UNDER THE LANDSCAPING PLAN.
UM, THE STATE DID SAY AFTER THE BUILDING WAS COMPLETE, SO YEAH, WE'RE NOT THERE YET.
YOU, I THINK YOU'D WANNA LOOK AT THE VISUAL IMPACT THEN AND DECIDE OTHER QUESTIONS.
WELL, I, NO, WHATEVER, WHATEVER, UM, MOTION WE HAVE, I, I HOPE THAT WE CAN ADD SOME KIND OF CONDITION, UH, UH, TO NOTE, UH, MS. WILLIAMS' COMMENTS CONCERNING MITIGATING ANY DAMAGE TO JASON CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
I I'M GONNA SUGGEST THAT THAT BE A CONDITION ALSO, YOU'RE SHAKING YOUR HEAD, BUT NO, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT CAN BE A CONDITION OF A CO OAI THINK WE SHOULD NOTE IT FOR THE RECORD.
AND, AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD INCLUDE IT IN THE MINUTES, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S A PROPER THING TO BE PUTTING IN.
THERE'S POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO OTHER HISTORIC STRUCTURE.
I FEEL CERTAIN THAT CHRIS WILL TAKE CARE OF THE APPLICANT'S CONCERNS AND COMMUNICATE OR NOT THE APPLICANT, THE, UH, PUBLIC MEMBER'S CONCERN AND COMMUNICATE WITH THEM ACCORDINGLY.
I MEAN, UNFORTUNATELY WE DON'T HAVE ANY GUIDELINES AGAINST CONSTRUCTION METHODS OR THAT TALK ABOUT CONSTRUCTION METHODS.
BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, UM, THAT THE PROBLEM WAS SHARED SO THAT IT'S KNOWN AND NOW THAT IT'S KNOWN, UH, THAT GIVES, UH, THE APPLICANT A CHANCE TO, TO DEAL WITH IT IN A MORE APPROPRIATE MANNER THAN HAPPENED LAST TIME AROUND.
I HAVE A QUESTION, ACTUALLY, YOU MADE ME AFTER SHAKING MY HEAD, NOAH.
UM, YOUR COMMENT MAKES ME THINK OF OUR, THE GUIDELINES WHERE WE HAVE IN EVERY SECTION WE SAY SOMETHING ABOUT, UM, THE WORK SHALL NOT DAMAGE THE HISTORIC, UM, MATERIALS.
UM, OF COURSE WE'RE MEANING IN THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, UM, OR IN THE APPLICATION, RIGHT.
NOT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE APPLICATION.
SO, UM, SO I THINK OUR JURISDICTION DOESN'T GO, UH, BEYOND THE PROPERTY LINE OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, JUST TO BE CLEAR.
WELL I'M, I'M HOPING THAT, UH, MR. WALKER HAS HEARD THE, THE NEIGHBORS AND IT WOULD BE WILLING TO WORK WITH A CONTRACTOR TO MINIMIZE ANY, ANY EFFECTS OF COMPACTION OR CONCRETE PLACEMENT DURING CONSTRUCTION.
DO I HAVE, AND I'VE WRITTEN DOWN ALL THE CONCERNS AND I HAVE HER NAME HERE THAT WE CAN REACH OUT TO IF POSSIBLE.
AND, AND DO YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MANDATE THEM IF THEY, IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THERE THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE SOME DAMAGE, UH, DURING CONSTRUCTION, WE CAN, WE CAN GUIDE THE CONTRACTOR TO, TO MAKE THEM HAVE A DIFFERENT ROUTE INTO THE, THE PALACE IF NEEDED.
WE'LL MAKE SURE SOMETHING HAPPENS FOR, OKAY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? READY FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE THE APPLICATION FOR COA? OKAY, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE.
WE FIND THE APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR SIX 13 P*****K STREET TO BE NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEW BURNS.
CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTION 15 4 11 TO 15 429 AND NEWBERG.
[00:55:01]
HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT, UTILITIES 2.3, TWO, THREE AND SIX, LANDSCAPING 2.43 AND FIVE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, 2.6 0.1, DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1 0.1, INFILL CONSTRUCTION, 3.4 0.3 AND FOUR FOUNDATIONS, 4.1 0.35 AND SIX WALLS, TRIM AND ORNAMENTATION, 4.5 ACCESSORY ACCESSIBILITY AND LIFE SAFETY.CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, 5.52 AND THREE.
FINDINGS OF FACT, THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IS LOCATED IN THE NEW BERN LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE PROJECT IS AN INFILL ACCESSORY GREENHOUSE STRUCTURE.
AND THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, ALSO KNOWN AS GUIDELINES.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND THE APPLICATION IS NOT INC.
E EITHER OF THE CONDITIONS ARE YOU INCLUDING? NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
WE APPROVE THE MOTION AS STATED.
OPPOSED? MOTIONS CARRIED PROJECTS APPROVED.
THANK YOU MS. JUMP IN ON THAT.
[5.B. 507 E. Front St. – to include rehabilitation of the porch in the Primary and Secondary AVC and the stoop and steps in the Secondary AVC.]
OUR NEXT APPLICATION IS FOR 5 0 7 EAST FRONT STREET.UH, WE HAVE THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE WALTER AND GRETA RUSSELL.
AND THE APPLICANT IS CHRISTINE RUSSELL.
AND YOU CAN SEE THERE'S AN ATTACHMENT FOR THE DESCRIPTION, THE, A LIST OF THE VARIOUS, UH, GUIDELINES AND ANOTHER DESCRIPTION FOR THE MATERIALS, UH, THAT PROVIDED.
SITE PLAN, PHOTOGRAPHS, ANNOTATED NOTES, ET CETERA.
AND MS. RUSSELL IS ACTING ON BEHALF OF MR. AND MS. RUSSELL.
AND SHE HAS SIGNED THIS DOCUMENT AND THIS IS THE DOCUMENT THAT AUTHORIZES HER TO DO SO FOR, UM, HER FATHER AND THEN FOR HER MOTHER.
SO, UM, THIS IS THE CONDITION WE FOUND ON THE THIRD OF OUR 7TH OF MARCH.
UM, SO WITH THAT, AND WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS AT THE, UH, AT THE UH, DESIGN REVIEW WORK SESSION, UM, WE, HERE WE HAVE A DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE WORK AND THE HISTORY OF REPAIRS.
UM, WHICH, UH, HOPEFULLY YOU'VE READ OVER.
UM, THEY'RE PRIMARILY WORKING ON THE FRONT PORCH WITH VARIOUS PIECES HERE, ENUMERATED IN THE BACK PORCH.
UM, AND SO THIS IS DOCUMENTATION OF THE PORCH BEFORE THEY BEGAN THE REPAIRS.
UM, TO NOTE HERE IS, UH, YOU SEE ON THE VERY CENTER OF THE PHOTOGRAPH, WE HAVE A, UH, TURNED POST.
UH, AND WE HAVE THE HAND, UH, THE RAILING, UH, FOR THE PORCH AND THEN AT THE TOP, SEE, OKAY, JUST TO THE LEFT HERE YOU CAN SEE THERE'S SOME SPINDLE WORK, UM, UH, TURNED SPINDLE WORK IN THAT AR UM, DECORATIVE IN THIS AREA AS WELL.
BUT ALSO NOTE THAT THESE TWO COLUMNS ON THE LEFT ARE SQUARE COLUMNS, POSTS.
UH, WE HAVE SOME MORE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE PRIOR TWO CONDITION.
SO THIS IS NOW THE FRONT OF THE, OF THE PORCH.
THERE'S SOME DAMAGE HERE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE, UH,
[01:00:01]
TURN PORTION OF THE POST.WE WILL SEE A CLOSER UP VIEW OF THAT IN A MINUTE AND SEE ALL THE SAME ELEMENTS WE SAW BEFORE.
UM, THIS IS A VIEW OF, UH, SOME OF THE PORCH FLOORING.
UM, OH, THERE'S TITLE TO THE NEXT SECTION.
SO THIS IS THAT DAMAGED POST THAT WE, UH, HIGHLIGHTED BEFORE, UH, MUCH MORE PROMINENT, UH, VISUALIZATION OF THAT DAMAGE IN THIS ANGLE AND CLOSEUP.
AND THEN ANOTHER POST HAD THIS DAMAGE, UH, THEN LOOKING DOWN AT THE FLOOR AFTER SOME OF IT'S BEEN REMOVED.
UM, JUST A VIEW OF SOME OF THE STRUCTURE, UH, INVOLVED HERE AFTER SOME OF THE FLOORING HAS BEEN REMOVED.
UH, AND THEN IT'S MORE ABOUT THE STRUCTURE THEN.
UH, THEY HAVE SOME PHOTOS OF LIKE HOMES WITH SQUARE POSTS.
THESE HOMES ARE EITHER ON OUR STREET OR WITHIN TWO BLOCKS OF OUR HOME.
SO THERE'S THIS ONE AND THIS ONE AND THIS ONE, THIS ONE, THIS ONE, THIS ONE.
UH, THIS IS ESSENTIALLY, UM, WHAT, TWO BY TWO BY SIXES I SUPPOSE.
AND HERE'S A SAMPLE OF THE WOOD AROUND THE, UH, BASE OF THE COLUMN AND CLOSER UP VIEW OF THE FLOORING.
THEN HERE'S THE TOP OF THE COLUMN AND THE PAINT, WHICH ISN'T REALLY, UH, EXCEPT FOR THAT FACT THAT YOU HAVE PAINT.
UM, AND THEN THIS IS A VIEW OF A SQUARE COLUMN.
SO WOOD COLUMN AND A SKETCH BY THE APPLICANT.
I'D LIKE TO SAY I DID THAT, BUT NOT ME.
OH, WE'LL GIVE YOU CREDIT 'CAUSE YOU'RE HERE.
HIS BACKGROUND'S IN ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN.
SO YOU HAVE AN ARTIST IN YOUR FAMILY.
UM, SO HERE UP, BESIDES THE UH, NICE DRAWING, UH, WE WANT TO LOOK AT THE PRO, ESSENTIALLY THE PROPOSED DESIGN HERE.
SO THE, UM, UH, THE, THE POSTS ARE ALL THERE.
SAME WITH GOING DOWN THE STAIRS AND THE NEW POST AT THE BOTTOM AND THE SPINDLE WORK ACROSS THE TOP.
UM, UH, AND I GUESS THE TRIM, UH, AT UNDERNEATH THE FLOOR, YOU KNOW, AT THE EDGE OF THE FLOORING AROUND THE, UH, AT THE TOP OF THE FOUNDATION.
UM, PHOTO OF THE REAR PORCH RAILING BY THE APPLICANT.
UM, UM, THIS WAS THE ONE PHOTO THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO PROVIDE OF, UM, THE QUOTE UNQUOTE BEFORE CONDITION.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE IT HAD BEEN SQUARE SPINDLES WITH THEIR, THEY WERE ALL CENTERED ON THE HANDRAIL.
UH, I DON'T THINK WE SEE THE BOTTOM.
AND CENTERED ON THE BOTTOM RAIL.
UH, AND THEN OF COURSE THE CORNER POST HAS A CAP, UH, ON IT.
SO, UM, AND THEY PROVIDED A DESCRIPTION OF THAT IN THIS EMAIL EXCHANGE THAT WE HAD.
AND THEN, UM, I DID, THIS IS NEW TO THE PACKET TODAY.
UM, I DID, UH, GET A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE CURRENT CONDITION.
UM, THEY WENT AHEAD AND BUILT THIS ON THE BACK.
I'M GONNA MAKE IT LARGER, SO IT MAY NOT BE DONE, BUT UM, YOU CAN AT LEAST SEE THAT THE, THE, THE SPINDLES OR THE BALLISTERS ARE ALL CENTERED UNDER THE HANDRAIL AND THE BOTTOM RAIL.
UM, THERE MAY BE A SPACING ISSUE ON THE ONES GOING DOWN THE STAIRS.
UM, AND I DON'T KNOW, I I THINK YOU WERE PLANNING ON STILL PUTTING CAPS
[01:05:01]
ON THESE POSTS, RIGHT? WE RESERVE, WE PRESERVED THE EXACT SAME CAPS.I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY, THEY ALL THEY DID WAS TAKE OUT BAD WOOD AND REPLACE IT.
SO WE DIDN'T MAKE ANY DESIGN CHANGES TO THAT BACK PORCH.
MY DAD WAS COMING HOME AND I CAN'T KEEP, ALMOST GO DOWN THE STAIRS.
UH, BUT YEAH, WE PRESERVED THE CAPS AND IT'LL LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME.
SO THERE'S NO CHANGE TO THE, UM, TO THAT AT ALL.
WELL EXCEPT THAT IT'S ALL NEW WOOD.
UM, AND I THINK THAT'S, YEAH, SO WE JUST HAVE THE Z AND I FORM AT THE MOMENT.
UH, A ZONING PERMIT WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED FOR THIS WORK AND CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR SAYS IT WILL REQUIRE A BUILDING PERMIT.
SO OTHER THAN THAT, WE'RE THEN READY WITH OUR STAFF REPORT WHEN YOU ARE.
IS THERE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? I WOULD LIKE TO ADD A COUPLE THINGS.
AT THE LAST MEETING WE WERE AT, WE HAD TWO DISCUSSIONS.
SO THE BACK PORCH, I THINK WE HAVE RESOLVED, BUT I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS SINCE WE DIDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING DESIGN WISE.
THE FRONT SQUARE COLUMNS VERSUS THE ROUND.
I DID SOME RESEARCH AND LOOKED INTO, THIS IS A MIXED QUEEN, VICTORIAN COLONIAL REVIVAL HOME.
AND IT HAD, IF YOU ALL THAT WERE THERE, RECALL TWO DIFFERENT FORMS OF ROUND HOLES AS WELL AS SQUARE PULSE BECAUSE WE COULD NOT GET THE ROUND PULSE.
THE REASON I WAS TEXTING, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT, IS I'M LITERALLY ON THE PHONE TO YET THE VERY LAST PERSON WHO MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAKE A ROUND POLE.
HE MIGHT HAVE TO MOLD IT OUTTA SOMETHING OTHER THAN WOOD BECAUSE THE HOUSE IS PARTIALLY QUEEN ANNE REV, THE REVIVAL, WE ACTUALLY PREFER THE SQUARE.
THE BALUSTRADE IS REVIVAL UNDERNEATH.
WE HAVE PRESERVED THE BALUSTRADE AND THE FRET WORK, SO WE INTEND TO PUT THOSE BACK UP.
BUT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THIS HOUSE EVEN AND ALL PRESERVED IN ONE EFFECTIVE WAY.
IT'S COMMON EVIDENTLY TO BUILD, UH, THE REVIVAL WITH THE QUEEN.
BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN GET THE ROUND HOLES.
THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO THE POLLS, BUT THEY MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO DO 'EM ON WOOD AND TURN 'EM, THEY MIGHT HAVE TO MOLD THEM.
SO I, I WANNA SAY HONESTLY, THERE IS A CHANCE I CAN GET A ROUND HOLE.
THAT PICTURE MATCH SHOWED YOU WAS SHOWING THAT WE WOULD ROUTER THE SIDE SO THEY WOULDN'T BE SO SHARP.
YOU TALKING ABOUT, OKAY, SO YOUR PROPOSAL IS SQUARE POLE.
WE WANNA KEEP, WE WANT THE SQUARE POLES WITH, WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT CHAING.
SHE'S TALKING ABOUT TAMPERING RIGHT NOW.
THAT SOUNDS I, I'M, THIS IS NOT MY THING.
UM, SO THE POLE ARE ONE THING, THE OTHER THING I WANT TO BRIEFLY SPEAK TO IS THE PORCH.
I HAVE SOURCES 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT PROFESSORS DO AND HANDOUTS, BUT I KNOW I CAN'T GIVE THEM TO YOU, SO I JUST KEEP THEM.
UH, BUT I LOOKED UP, I MENTIONED AT THE LAST MEETING THE TONGUE AND GROOVE ROCKS AND THAT IS A PROBLEM 'CAUSE WE SIT RIGHT ON A FLOOD PLAIN.
UH, AS MANY OF YOU MAY KNOW, THAT HOUSE FLOODS, THAT'S WHY IT'S SUCH A MESS.
YOU DON'T USE TONGUE AND GROOVE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT.
I HAVE SOURCES IF ANYBODY WANTS TO SEE THAT IT'S COMMON TO USE PLANK FLOORING.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO USE THE PLANK FLOORING SO THAT IT CAN DRY BETWEEN.
SO WE WILL NOT CONSTANTLY MM-HMM
BE RIPPING UP PIECES OF THE FLOOR.
AND THAT'S WHY IT'S HALF TONGUE AND GROOVE HALF NOT 'CAUSE PEOPLE WOULD COME OUT AND STICK THESE PLANKS IN THERE.
UH, I AM ASKING TO MAKE THEM WIDER.
IT WAS COMMON WITH THE VICTORIAN PALMS FOR THEM TO BE BETWEEN TWO AND A QUARTER AND SIX INCHES.
I WAS INCORRECT IN MY APPLICATION IS FIVE INCHES.
SO, SO THAT'S, THAT'S IT IN A NUTSHELL.
WE WOULD LIKE TO GO TO THE SQUARE PULSE SO WE DON'T KEEP HAVING TO TRY TO REPLACE.
I DO HAVE A QUESTION, SO SURE.
SHE'S NOT ALLOWED TO, UH, HAND OUT INFORMATION.
I JUST THOUGHT SINCE I DIDN'T SEND IT, I, I'M SORRY.
I DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO EMAIL ANYTHING.
HERE IS MY WHITE TONGUE AND GROOVE.
SO IN CASE ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO SEE THAT, THIS IS THE, JUST AN OVERVIEW OF THE ARCHITECTURAL THING.
IF YOU WANNA SEE, UH, YEAH, THE SOURCES ARE ON THE BACK ONE PAGE.
ONE PAGE, THE SOURCES ARE ON THE BACK.
ONE IS HUD AND SOME OTHER ARCHITECTURAL THINGS.
ONE MIGHT EVEN BE BETTER ARMS AND GARDEN.
[01:10:01]
BUT I DID TALK TO SOME OTHER PEOPLE, INCLUDING A FAMILY MEMBER WHO'S AN ARCHITECT AND THEY DON'T ADVISE TONGUE AND GROOVE IN FLOOD ZONES.I, I DON'T THINK THAT'S AN UNUSUAL YEAH.
BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WAS RIGHT WHEN I ASSERTED THAT.
AND MR. CHAIR, JUST FOR THE RECORD, UM, THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED A DOCUMENT THAT IS TITLED Y TONGUE AND GROOVE PORCH FLOORING IS PROBLEMATIC IN FLOOD PRO AREAS.
IT IS A TWO PAGE DOCUMENT, UM, ONE AND A HALF PAGE DOCUMENT.
AND I BELIEVE IT IS A DOCUMENT THAT WAS AUTHORED BY THE APPLICANT.
IT WAS AUTHORED BY ME AND, UH, AI.
IT IS A COMBINATION OF, AND YOU MAY INCORPORATE THIS DOCUMENT INTO THE RECORD.
YOU CAN JUST NOTE THAT FOR THE RECORD, YOU DON'T HAVE TO VOTE.
WE'LL NOTE FOR THE RECORD, WE ARE INCORPORATING, UM, THE APPLICANT'S DESCRIPTION OF THE ISSUES INVOLVING, UH, TONGUE AND GROOVE AND FLOOD AREAS.
ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
I HAVE ANOTHER ONE THAT JUST TALKS ABOUT WHAT I ALREADY SAID.
I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS IT'S A MIXED YEP.
TAUGHT STYLE HOME AND WE WANNA MAKE IT BETTER.
IT IS OUR GOAL NOW TO UPDATE THIS HOUSE AND GET IT BACK IN GOOD CONDITION AND WE NEED TO DO THAT.
ARE THERE ANY PROPONENTS OR, OR PROPONENTS OF THE PROJECT TO HAVE RECEIVED NOTIFICATION FROM THE CITY, UM, AND HAVE STATUS THAT WISH TO SPEAK? HEARING NONE.
UH, WE'RE READY FOR YOUR RECOMMENDATION.
DID WE INCLUDE ANY ARE THERE ANY, ANY, UH, OPPONENTS OR PROPONENTS WHO DIDN'T RECEIVE NOTIFICATION WHO ARE CONCERNED WITH THE PROJECT TO WANNA SPEAK? OKAY.
SO THIS IS OUR STAFF REPORT FOR THE PROJECT AT 5 0 7 EAST FRONT STREET.
UH, THE APPLICANT IS CHRISTINE RUSSELL AND THE HISTORIC PROPERTY NAME IS JOHN G DUN HOUSE, UH, BUILT CIRCA 1903.
IT IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE AND THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY DESCRIPTION FROM 2003 DESCRIBES IT AS TWO AND A HALF STORIES, THREE BAYS WIDE, A WRAPAROUND PORCH, CROSS GABLE ROOF, IMPEDIMENT TO GABLES, THE SANDBAG DESCRIPTION FROM 1988.
UH, THE RELEVANT PORTION INCLUDES A LATE EXAMPLE OF THE LONG INFLUENCE OF THE QUEEN ANN STYLE, THE TWO STORY JOHN J JOHN G DUN HOUSE IS DISTINGUISHED BY ITS LIVELY CROSS CABLED ROOF, ROOF LINE, AND PROJECTING THREE SIDED FRONT BAY, A ONE STORY PORCH SUPPORTED BY TURN POSTS, WRAPS AROUND THE THREE SIDES OF THE CENTRAL BAY AND SHELTERS.
THE ENTRANCE DOORS AT EITHER SIDE CONTINUES ON LATER TO SAY THE HOUSE WAS BUILT CIRCA 1903 FOR JOHN G. DUNN, THE PROPRIETOR OF A LARGE DRY GOODS AND CLOTHING STORE.
AND DURING THE 1920S, AN OFFICER OF BOTH THE NEW BERN BUILDING AND LOAN ASSOCIATION AND THE NEW BERN MORRIS PLAN COMPANY, UNQUOTE.
SO FOR 5 0 7 EAST FRONT STREET, THE PROJECT IS TO INCLUDE REHABILITATION OF THE PORCH IN THE PRIMARY AND SECONDARY A VC AND THE STOOP STEPS IN THE SECONDARY A VC.
SO STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN STANDARDS, THE GUIDELINES THAT MAY BE APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION FOR DESIGN PRINCIPLES 3.1 FOR MODIFICATIONS, 3.2, 0.1, TWO, AND THREE FOR ENTRANCES, 4.4 0.1, TWO, AND FOUR FOR WOOD.
5.4 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND FOUR.
AND FOR STATEMENTS OF FACT, BASED ON THE INFORMATION OBTAINED IN THE APPLICATION ARE ONE, THE STRUCTURE IS A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
THE PRO TWO, THE PROJECT IS MODIFICATIONS TO A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE PRIMARY AND SECONDARY ABCS.
THREE, THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN STANDARDS.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND FIVE, THE APPLICATION IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES.
HPC MAY WANT TO CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.
THE REVISED PLANS, ACCORDING TO THE CHANGES AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES AND PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS DIVISION.
IT'S THE END OF OUR STAFF REPORT.
SOME OF YOU GUYS ARE, ARE, HAVE BEEN DOING THIS A LOT LONGER.
WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON FLOOD PRONE AREAS? TONGUE AND GROOVE VERSUS PLANK? NOT A CONSIDERATION.
I I, YOU KNOW, I'M LOOKING AT THE GUIDELINES.
I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING THAT DIFFERENTIATED BETWEEN FLOOD PRONE AREAS AND
[01:15:01]
NOT WHEN IT CAME TO MATERIALS.NOT A CONSIDERATION IN TERMS OF THE GUIDELINES OR THE REALITY THAT THE E EITHER YEAH, EITHER YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T THINK IT'S A PARTICULAR, UH, HAZARD.
I MEAN, SOME, SOME FLOODS ARE TWO INCHES, SOME FLOODS ARE FOUR FEET.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT A WOOD DECK, IT FALLS BETWEEN TWO INCHES AND FOUR FEET.
UH, CONVERSELY YOU COULD, NOT NECESSARILY IN THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT, BUT THEORETICALLY HAVE OTHER MATERIALS FOR PORCHES THAT ARE MORE FLOOD RESISTANT, BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A CHARACTERISTIC OF THE, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICTS.
DOES THE GUIDELINE SUGGEST OR MANDATE TONGUE AND ROOF IF IT DOESN'T? UH, NOT, NOT SPECIFICALLY, BUT IT DOESN'T MANDATE OR SUGGEST A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE OBVIOUS WHEN YOU LOOK AT YEAH.
BUILDINGS UP THE STREET, DOWN THE STREET AND ACROSS THE STREET.
OTHER QUESTIONS? SO, SO I GUESS COME BACK TO OUR COLUMNS.
I, I APPLAUD YOU FOR TRYING TO SOURCE A, A ROUND COLUMN OR TURN, OR A COMPLEX TURNING AS YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HERE.
AND, UH, MY, I DON'T HAVE A, WELL, IT'S GETTING READY TO SAY I DON'T HAVE A STRONG OPINION.
I, I DON'T THINK THE GUIDELINES HAVE A STRONG OPINION ABOUT WHETHER IT BE A TURN COLUMN OR A SQUARE COLUMN ON THIS, A STRUCTURE OF THIS ERA.
BUT WHAT GIVES ME SOME ANXIETY IS OUR, UM, UPPER RAIL WORK USUALLY GOES WITH TURN COLUMNS.
AND AS EVIDENCE OF THAT, I, I'D SUGGEST ON PAGE FOUR DASH FOUR, WE'VE GOT A PICTURE IN THE GUIDELINES, UM, WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE TURN COLUMN AND THE, THE LOWER RAILING OR BALUSTRADE AND THE UPPER RAILING.
UM, ALL THE EXAMPLES YOU BROUGHT IN THE NIGHT OF SQUARE COLUMNS, NONE OF THEM HAVE THE, THE UPPER RAIL IN THEM.
SO I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND AND I APOLOGIZE BECAUSE AGAIN, WELL, WELL, THAT'S OKAY.
NOT MY AREA OF EXPERTISE, BUT SO THE, THE CONCERN YOU HAVE IS WHAT'S RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE COLUMN? YEAH, WELL, THE DETAIL WORK, THE ORNAMENTAL WORK THAT GOES WITH THE TURN COLUMN, I BELIEVE SHE CALLED THAT THE FRET WORK.
AND, UH, BUT YEAH, THE, THE UPPER RAIL, SO THE TOP PART OF THE, THE IN BETWEEN COLUMNS, WE HAVE IT IN THE IMAGE ON THE SCREENS UP.
SO THAT ORIGINAL, THE TOP WORK IS THE ORIGINAL WORK THAT'S BEEN FOR I UNDERSTAND.
SEE THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM THAT OKAY.
WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF FACED WITH UP HERE AS I SEE IT.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IT DON'T, ON THE SURFACE IT SEEMS LIKE AN EASY SWITCH, RIGHT? YEAH.
YOU KNOW, ROUND COLUMN, SQUARE COLUMN.
NOT SURE IT MATTERS, BUT WHAT DOES GIVE ME SOME ANXIETY IS HAVING THE SQUARE COLUMN, I MEAN THE YEAH.
SQUARE COLUMN WITH THE ADDITIONAL ORNAMENTAL WORK AT THE TOP, SO ROUNDED AT THE TOP.
SO TO TAKE IT FURTHER, WE COULD ALL JUST HEAR TONIGHT SAY, WELL, WE'LL LEAVE THAT OUT.
EXCEPT AS YOU SAY, IT'S ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE.
SO I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE THE CONUNDRUM, OH, AND I WILL COMPLICATE THIS BY SAYING THAT IT DOES NOT SHOW IN THE SAND BACK PICTURE IN THE WHAT? SO IT'S NOT ORIGINAL.
OH, WELL, WHICH MAY BE MAY BE TRUE.
IT'S NOT IN THE SAND BACK PICTURE.
SO THE, THE THE 1988 OR EARLIER SEND BACK OR AN EARLIER ONE EARLIER THAN 88.
NOT A WAY THAT THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE.
SO, SO RICHARD, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE PICTURE THAT HEATER HAS IN THE BOOK DOES NOT SHOW THE TERM COLUMNS? THAT'S CORRECT.
BUT HE SHOWS THE TERM COLUMNS, BUT IT DOES NOT SHOW THE SPEND THE WORK AT THE TOP.
AND YOU, I IS YOUR, WAS YOUR PLAN TO PUT IN THE, THE FRET WORK AT THE TOP? WE HAD INTENDED TO PUT IT BACK, BUT HONESTLY WE WERE DOING THAT 'CAUSE WE THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS SIGNIFICANT TO THE COMMUNITY TO WANT TO KEEP THERE.
AS A DESIGN ELEMENT, I'M IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT AS IS MY FAMILY, THAT WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT KINDS OF, WE HAVE THE COLONIAL REVIVAL
WE COULD LEAVE IT OFF AND, AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S BOTHERED BY THAT OR WE COULD ADJUST IT TO COLONIAL REVIVAL TO MATCH.
WELL, I'VE SEEN A DIFFERENT PICTURE WITHOUT IT NOT I'VE SEEN A DIFFERENT EARLIER.
WELL, I'VE SEEN THERE HAVE BEEN MANY CHANGES TO THIS.
IT DOES SHOW IN THE SANDBAG PICTURE, BUT I HAVE SEEN A PICTURE IN DESIGN REVIEW.
THERE WAS A PICTURE THAT WE SAW WITHOUT THE, WITHOUT.
MR. CHAIR, I THINK MR. SHELLY HAS A
[01:20:01]
COPY OF THE SAND BACK BOOK THAT'S BEING DISCUSSED AT THE MOMENT.AND HE HAS OPENED THE SANDBAG BOOK TO PAGE 3 0 6.
UM, SPECIFICALLY THE, THE ENTRY ON THE JOHN G DUN HOUSE LOCATED AT 5 0 7 EAST FRONT STREET, 1903.
I THINK HE IS, UM, GOING TO PROVIDE AT LEAST YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THAT PHOTOGRAPH FOR YOUR CONTEXT.
CAN YOU SHOW IT TO THE APPLICANT? SIR, I HAVE TO ASK, CAN I SHOW MR. SHELLEY? I CAN WAIT.
THERE WAS A PICTURE THAT WE SAW DOES NOT HAVE THE PREP RECORD.
MY PARENTS BOUGHT IT 35 YEARS AGO.
OH, I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT 35 YEARS OR BEFORE.
AND, AND SO, SO WHILE THEY'RE STUDYING THE, THE ONE OTHER POINT THAT I WANTED TO, UH, BRING OUT IS, I THINK YOU PROVIDED SOME ADDITIONAL PICTURES TONIGHT THAT SHOWED THE, UM, CONSTRUCTION UNDERNEATH THE PORCH DECKING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
WE, WE MAY HAVE SEEN THOSE DURING DESIGN REVIEW, BUT THEY APPEAR TO BE NEW, NEW TO ME ANYWAY.
WE ARE LITERALLY REPLACING, WHAT WAS THAT? PART'S NOT, THAT'S NOT WHERE WE'RE GOING, BUT I'M WITH YOU.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE, THAT'S NOT WHERE I'M GOING.
I'M YOUR, THE WHOLE PORCH HAS BEEN REBUILT.
AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE WERE MODERN MATERIALS BENEATH THE DECK BOARDS, AND SO THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE WE'VE GOT A COMBINATION OF THINGS THAT NEVER WERE INTENDED TO GO TOGETHER JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS BEING A GOOD STEWARD AND, YOU KNOW, SALVAGING THINGS THAT THEY LIKED OR THAT THEY THOUGHT LOOKED NICE.
I WILL SAY, IF IT'S HELPFUL, THIS HOUSE HAS BEEN TOTALLY REMODELED, MODELED AND DONE TWO, MAYBE THREE TIMES BECAUSE HURRICANES HAVE TAKEN IT DOWN WITH COMPLETE FLOODING OF THE GROUND FLOOR.
SO, SO I'M SATISFIED BASED ON THE PICTURE THAT MAYBE THAT DETAILING AT THE TOP BETWEEN COLUMNS IS NOT ORIGINAL, IN WHICH CASE IF YOU WANT SQUARE COLUMNS AND WE CAN AGREE TO LEAVE IT OUT, HAPPY TO DO IT.
I I'D BE A HAPPY CAMPER AND WE CAN, UH, WE SAY THAT AGREE WITH THIS CONVERSATION
SO I, I AGREE WITH YOU AND COMPLETELY ON THAT.
SO THAT'S, WOULD YOU AMEND THE, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE APPLICANT IS AMENDING HER APPLICATION TO REMOVE THE FRET WORK AT THE TOP OF THE STRUCTURE YEAH.
AND TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SQUARE COLUMNS.
AND WE SAY CHAMFORD SQUARED COLUMNS.
THANK YOU FOR THAT CORRECTION, MR. MORRISON.
AND EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS WE'RE NOW DEALING WITH THE MODIFIED APPLICATION.
SO, SO, UM, I NOTICED ON THOSE SQUARE COLUMNS THAT YOU HAD ALREADY CONSTRUCTED, IT LOOKS LIKE THE TOP OF THE COLUMN.
THERE'S, IT'S PRETTY CHUNKY THERE.
AND, AND I THOUGHT MAYBE THAT WAS BECAUSE OF THE FRET WORK THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO CREATE A 'CAUSE THAT IT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT SOMEONE BROUGHT UP AT THE LAST MEETING WAS KIND OF THE BALANCE.
IT LOOKED LIKE IT'S A BIG CHUNK OF, OF WOOD AT THE TOP OF THAT COLUMN.
IF IT'S NOT NEEDED, WE CAN REMOVE IT.
CAN YOU DO SOMETHING? AND IF YOU, YOU LOOKED AT SOME OF YOUR PHOTOS THAT OF DIFFERENT COLUMNS.
THERE IS SOME ORNAMENTATION, THERE'S SOME DIFFERENT BANDS, UM, IN SOME OF THOSE THAT GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE CHARACTER, IF YOU WILL, A LITTLE BIT MORE ORNAMENTATION.
IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE PHOTOS.
UM, WHAT DO, WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO EMULATE SOME OF THOSE, UH, NEIGHBORING HOUSES WITH THE SQUARE ONES? WHAT, WHAT SIZE, UM, COLUMN IS THAT? IS THERE FOUR BY FOUR OR SIX BY SIX? UH, THAT'S ONE.
I THINK IT'S SIX BY SIX BECAUSE THEY ARE A LITTLE BIGGER THAN THE PORCH.
IN FACT, I REMEMBER ASKING THAT QUESTION.
YOUR ORIGINAL APPLICATION THEN HAS THOSE EXTENDERS ON, ON THE POLE AT THE TOP.
AND IT'S BEEN SUGGESTED THAT THEY MIGHT NOT, UH, APPRO BE APPROPRIATE.
IS THAT, IS THAT WHERE CAN MR. SHELLEY SHOW US THE PICTURE? YEP.
IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE FRET WORK THAT WE WERE TRYING TO BALANCE THAT ORNATE FRET WORK ON THE TOP.
AND NOW AT THE BOTTOM WE ALSO HAVE THIS, THAT'S THE PROPOSAL.
WELL, IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT BIG CHUNK OF WOOD.
IT HAS SOMETHING THAT HAS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A, OF A YEAH.
WELL, FOR THE PURPOSES OF, OF OF, OF A, UH, A MOTION.
AND I, I NEED TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT, WHAT IT IS YOU'RE GOING TO DO HERE.
IS IT, IS IT JUST GONNA BE THE SQUARE POST? NO ADORNMENT TOP AND BOTTOM SQUARE POST, NO ADORNMENT ON THE TOP.
I WOULD PREFER TO HAVE THE, THE, UH, SLIGHT MOLDING ON THE BOTTOM, BUT I'M WILLING TO OPEN TO REMOVING THAT IF THAT'S, IF ANYBODY'S TROUBLED BY THAT, THAT'S AN AESTHETIC THING FOR ME.
SQUARE, LET'S SAY FOR, YOU KNOW WHAT, FOR PURPOSES
[01:25:01]
OF THE MOTION, REMOVE THE MOLDING, COMPLETELY REMOVE THE FRET WORK AND WE WILL HAVE STRAIGHT SQUARE POSTS THAT ARE CHAMP.WITH, UM, THE ORIGINAL RAILING? YEAH.
WE'RE JUST REPAIRING THE WOOD ON THE ORIGINAL RAILING.
AND, AND THAT'S ANOTHER AMENDMENT TO THE PROPOSAL.
THAT'S WHERE WE ARE AT AT THE MOMENT.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WELL LET, LET'S GO TO PDF PAGE 92.
SO A, ASIDE FROM THE CROSS SECTION OF THE MATERIAL THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT EARLIER MM-HMM
YOU GOT YOUR DECKING RUNNING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION ON THAT SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE WERE TO, AGAIN, TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION DECKING ON OTHER HOUSES IN THE DISTRICT, IT'S GONNA RUN PERPENDICULAR TO THE EXTERIOR WALL.
'CAUSE 'CAUSE THE PORCH SLOPES DOWN.
AND SO THAT'S, SO THE WATER CAN RUN OFF.
WHERE HERE WATER'S JUST GONNA RUN BETWEEN THE CRACKS.
AND ARE THE JOINTS, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT IT BE MITERED WHERE THE, UH, CORRECT.
AT THE CORNER THEN IT, IT'D BE MITERED AT SOME POINT TO TURN THE CORNER.
THEY HAVEN'T FINISHED THAT, THAT PART OF IT, IN TERMS OF TURNING A PERPENDICULAR ORIGINAL PORCH WASN'T THAT WAY.
BUT I MEAN, I DON'T GUESS THERE'S ANY REASON NOT TO DO THAT.
WELL, THE WATER RUNS TO THE RIGHT OF THE HOUSE, RIGHT? UH, YEAH.
THAT JUST WASN'T HOW IT WAS DONE.
BUT I, I I DON'T HAVE ANY, WELL, IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN, I, I DON'T KNOW, BUT WE WERE LOOKING AT A PICTURE OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE EARLIER.
AND WHEN WE WERE EXAMINING THE COLUMNS, AND IT ALSO HAD THE DECKING RIGHT.
UM, IN THE VIEW, IT, IT WAS A LOT OF CHOPPED UP DECKING.
OVER THE YEARS, EVERY TIME ONE PIECE ROTTED OUT, WE PATCHED SOME MORE PIECES.
AND THAT IS A CONSISTENT CHALLENGE FOR US WITH LOTS OF, UH, WHOOP, GO BACK, MA'AM.
BUT I CAN TELL THE CONTRACTOR TO DO IT.
AND SO WE, WE, WE KNOW FROM, AND THIS ISN'T WE'RE AROUND THE CORNER WHERE I'M TALKING ABOUT, BUT YOU CAN SEE THESE DECK BOARDS RUN PERPENDICULAR YEP.
TO THE OUTSIDE WALL, AND YOU CAN ALSO KIND OF SEE THEIR TONGUE AND GROOVE YES.
AND THAT'S ANOTHER AMENDMENT TO THE PROPOSAL, AND YOU'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH DOING THAT? ABSOLUTELY.
WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE AGREEING TO? YES.
SAY WHAT, WHAT, WHAT WAS THAT? UM, THE AMENDMENT IS TO HAVE THE DECK BOARDS RUNNING PERPENDICULAR TO THE HOUSE MITERED AT THE CORONERS.
AND ARE WE RESOLVED THAT IT'S NOT TONGUE AND GROOVE? WELL, I, I, THAT WOULD BE THE RIGHT THING TO DO, TO DO TONGUE AND GROOVE.
YOU, YOU'RE, YOU WOULD RATHER NOT DO THE TONGUE AND GROOVE.
I, I FEEL VERY STRONGLY THAT A, IT IS NOT UNCOMMON FOR THIS TYPE OF HOUSE TO NOT ALL OF THEM HAD TONGUE AND GROOVE.
SO WE'RE NOT IN VIOLATION OF THAT.
AND NOT EVERY HOUSE IN TOWN HAS TONGUE AND GROOVE MM-HMM
AND WE HAVE HAD CONSISTENT, I I REALIZE THAT YES, IF YOU HAVE A FLOOD, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THESE PROBLEMS, BUT BECAUSE OF THE UNIQUE NATURE OF WHERE OUR HOUSE IS, IT IS LITERALLY RIGHT IN THE WORST POSSIBLE PLACE FOR WATER TO COME UP.
EVERY RAINSTORM WE'RE SUBMERGED.
I SPEND HALF OF THE TIME, WE'VE ALREADY REPAIRED IT IN THE TWO YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE THREE TIMES BECAUSE OF ROT, BECAUSE IT WETS.
AND IT'S, IT'S CLEAR THAT THAT IS GOING TO DISSOLVE MORE FREQUENTLY AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO CONSTANTLY PATCH.
AND SO YES, I, I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO BE ALLOWED TO DO THE PLANK AND RUN IT PERPENDICULAR WITH THE MITRE EDGES BECAUSE IT IS A CONSISTENT REPAIR PROBLEM.
AND, AND I, I THINK THAT IT'S CONSISTENT WITH OTHER HOMES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT DON'T, NOT EVERYBODY HAS IT.
I, I FEEL PRETTY RESOLVED ON THAT.
I I DO WANT TO DO THAT O OKAY.
AND THAT'S YOUR, THAT'S YOUR PROPOSAL? WE'LL, YES.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S YOURS AND, AND YOU HAVE AN OPPOSING OPINION THAT MAYBE THERE OTHERS YEAH.
WELL, PARTICULARLY IN TERMS OF THE WIDTH OF THE BOARD.
I'D BE OPEN TO MAKING THE WIDTH OF THE BOARD NARROWER.
WELL, I, I THINK AS WE DISCUSSED IN DESIGN REVIEW, WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING IN THE TWO TO FOUR INCH RANGE.
WOULD YOU PROPOSE FOUR, FOUR INCHES WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY FINE.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SWITCHING OUT FOR FOUR INCHES.
I JUST REALLY AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE TONGUE AND GROOVE ROCK.
THIS HAS BEEN ONGOING FOREVER.
[01:30:01]
WERE WE IN THE PROCESS HERE? SORRY.SO, UH, OKAY, YOU PRESENTED YOUR, SO WE, WE WE'RE GONNA DEAL WITH AN, AN AMENDED, UM, UH, PROPOSAL.
WE, WE ALL KNOW OF THE COLUMNS.
NOW THERE AREN'T ADORNMENTS AT THE TOP OF THE BOTTOM.
THE PORCH DECK WOULD BE VERTICAL TO THE HOUSE MIRED AT THE CORNERS.
THE BOARDS WILL BE FOUR INCHES AND YOU WOULD PREFER NON TONGUE AND GROOVE.
SO THAT'S THE PROPOSAL THAT'S ON THE FLOOR.
DECKING IS PER PERPENDICULAR TO THE BUILDING.
IS THERE ANY, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? OKAY, SO WE, THAT, THAT'S ALL ABOUT THE FRONT.
ARE, ARE THERE ANY THE BACK, I GUESS BECAUSE IT'S, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING IS THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS BROUGHT OUT ON THE BACK.
AND I PROBABLY COULD HAVE HUNTED FOR SOME MORE PICTURES.
I, I, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION SINCE WE WERE DOING THE SAME EXACT THING.
THAT'S WHAT I EMAILED MATT ABOUT THAT FROM OUR CONVERSATION.
WE DIDN'T NEED TO HAVE A THANKS.
AND, AND MATT, I LITERALLY KEPT THE CAPS, THE MOLDED CAPS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.
AND, AND MATT, YOU'VE VERIFIED THAT IT IS A, A, A, A DIRECT REPLACEMENT IN KIND FOR THAT BACK PORCH.
WOULD IT HELP IF I HUNT DOWN A PICTURE OF THAT BACK? I CAN ASK MY BROTHER-IN-LAW FOR A PICTURE OF WHEN THEY REPAIRED IT THE LAST TIME IT FELL DOWN.
I WAS JUST THERE IF WE WANT, IF WE NEEDED TO INCLUDE IT AS PART OF THE APPLICATION.
IT IS PART OF THE APPLICATION.
I THOUGHT WE HAD WITHDRAWN IT AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.
I THOUGHT WE HAD SAID THAT IF IT WAS AN EXACT REPLACEMENT, WE COULD WITHDRAW.
SO, UM, YEAH, WE HAD VARIOUS CONVERSATIONS BACK AND FORTH ABOUT THIS.
AND IN THE END, UH, I HAD IT LEFT IT IN THE, UH, APPLICATION.
BUT, UH, ALSO, UH, IN THE EVENT IT'S A REPLACEMENT, AN EXACT REPLICA OF THE PREVIOUS ONE, IT WOULD SIMPLY JUST BE A REPLACEMENT IN KIND, NO MATTER WHAT.
UM, IF IT IS NOT AN EXACT REPLICA FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND YOU, UH, HOWEVER THINK THIS IS ACCEPTABLE MM-HMM
THEN SHE WOULD ALREADY HAVE AN APPROVAL FOR THIS OR YEAH.
UH, ANYWAY, SO IT WAS PROBABLY BETTER JUST TO HAVE HER GO THROUGH THIS AS IF THE WAY YOU SEE IT THERE MM-HMM
OR IF THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME ADJUSTMENTS LIKE WE DID WITH THE PORCH OR ANYTHING, LET'S DEAL WITH IT AS, AS PROPOSED AS IT IS.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER FINAL QUESTIONS? OKAY, WELL, LET ME MAKE SURE I GOT THIS.
THE FINAL DESIGN, WHICH I WAS GOING TO ASK FOR A MOTION ON, WOULD BE THAT THE POSTS, UH, ON THE FRONT DECK ARE SQUARE.
UM, THAT THERE ARE NO ENLARGED ELEMENTS ON THE TOP AND BOTTOM.
THAT THERE'S NO FRET WORK ACROSS THE TOP.
AND THAT THE, UH, DECK BOARDS ON THE, ON THE FRONT RUN, UH, PERPENDICULAR TO THE STRUCTURE MITERED AT THE CORNER.
SO IT'S PERPENDICULAR ALL THE WAY AROUND.
AND THE COLUMNS AND THE, WHICH OH, CHAMBER.
WE HAD ALREADY INTENDED THAT THE CONTRACTORS ON THAT HONOR.
AND THE DEPTH, THE WIDTH OF THE BOARDS, FOUR FOUR INCH BOARDS.
SO, MR. CHAIRMAN AND, AND THE PROPOSAL IS NON TONGAN GROUP.
UH, A, A QUESTION, UH, WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE TO, AS A CONDITION, SINCE WE'VE GOT SOME AMENDMENTS WE SEEN TO BE IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT THESE AMENDMENTS ARE, A CONDITION WOULD BE THE APPLICANT WOULD PROVIDE UPDATED DOCUMENTATION ON THE AMENDMENTS TO THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR SO THAT WE HAVE COMPLETE DOCUMENTED RECORD OF WHAT HE SAYS.
YOU HAVE 'EM ALREADY OR YOU, YOU, YOU'VE MADE THEM WELL, SO, UH, WE WOULD NEED TO SEE, UM, BUT YOU SEE A REVISED DRAWING INCORPORATING THE CHANGES WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.
DRAWING PHOTOGRAPHS, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY COULD REMOVE THE CAPITAL IN THE BASE.
AND THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO DO.
SO THE CONDITION WE'LL ASK FOR IS A REVISED DRAWING.
UH, THE DETAILS OF CHANGES WE'VE AGREED SOME DOCUMENTATION.
MY CONCERN IS THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT TAKES SIX MONTHS, A YEAR TO GET TO THESE THINGS AND WE LOSE TRACK OF, OKAY, WHAT IS IT THAT WE ACTUALLY APPROVE? YEAH.
AND IF IT'S DOCUMENTED, THEN WE'VE GOT, IT COULD BE CONFUSING BASED ON THIS DIALOGUE.
SO, SO IS THE, IS THE AMENDMENT TO HAVE A SQUARE POST, NOT THE WOOD THAT'S ON THERE NOW, BUT THE TOP OF THE SQUARE POST GO DIRECTLY AS SQUARE? OR ARE THERE OTHER ORNAMENTATION KIND OF, WHICH IS MORE TYPICAL AT THE TOP OF THE COLUMN? UH, THE,
[01:35:01]
THE PICTURES I SAW DIDN'T SHOW IT, BUT THE, THE AMENDMENT, THE PROPOSED, UH, PROPOSAL IS THAT THERE'D BE NO CHANGE IN THE WIDTH AT THE TOP AND THE BOTTOM.I'M, I'M ASKING NOT, NOT SO MUCH CHANGE IN WIDTH, BUT ADORNMENTS.
IF, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES WHEN THAT COLUMN COMES UP, THERE'S LIKE A, UM, UM, ALMOST LIKE A, A LARGER PLATE THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT SITS ON YEAH.
WITH SOME MOLDING THAT'S AROUND THERE TO KIND OF TIE IT ALL TOGETHER.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'LL VOTE ON.
I WAS LOOKING AT THE OTHER HOUSES.
THEY TYPICALLY HAVE SOME ROUTER YES.
SOMETHING, SOME KIND OF PLATE THAT THEY, THAT THEY SIT ON AND SOMETHING THAT KIND OF TIES IT.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A THINNER PLATE, TOP AND BOTTOM.
LIKE ON THE IMAGE ON YOUR SCREEN? YEAH.
SEE, 'CAUSE I WAS LOOKING AT FRET WORK AT THE TOP.
I DIDN'T SEE ANY ORNAMENTATION THAT WOULD WORK.
NOW THAT I HAVE A BLANK ONE IN THE BASIS.
I CAN YOU WILLING TO PUT THEN A A, A PLATE WOULD PROBABLY BE AN INCH, INCH AND A HALF PLATE SQUARE.
AROUND THE TOP AND THE BOTTOM.
I THINK, AND I CAN SEND DRAWING ACTUALLY EACH ONE IN HER, IN THE PHOTOGRAPH OF WHAT'S ON THE HOUSE NOW I THINK THERE IS ACTUALLY, THERE IS A PLATE, BUT THEN THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S ANOTHER PIECE, A BIG CHUNK OF UNTREATED WOOD THAT'S GOTTA BUT MAYBE SOME KIND OF A MOLDING THAT, THAT, THAT GOES BETWEEN THE VERTICAL COLUMN AND THE HORIZONTAL PLATE THAT'S THERE.
SOMETHING LIKE THIS EXAMPLE RIGHT HERE.
WHERE IT HAS THE TOP SQUARE PIECE OF THIN MOLDING AND THEN ANOTHER ONE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? LIKE THAT? YEAH.
THE, JUST THE TOP PIECE, NOT THE SECONDARY ONE.
YEAH, I MEAN, WE HAVE ONE ON THERE.
WE COULD TAKE OFF THAT LARGE MOLDING AND JUST LEAVE THE ONE THIN THERE OR DO SOMETHING.
IT'S ANGLE UP A LITTLE BIT, RIGHT? IT'S GOT A LITTLE ARCH.
IS THAT WHAT WELL, I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY A PIECE OF CO MOLDING.
YEAH, I THINK IT'S A PIECE OF MOLDING THAT KIND OFTIES.
THE VERY, YOU WANNA AMEND IT AGAIN BECAUSE AT THE BASE OF THE PORCH COVER, BUT I LIKE THAT AND I CAN DO THAT.
SO MR. CHAIR, JUST FOR PURPOSES OF THE RECORD, HE SEND ME A PICTURE.
MR. SHELLY HAS A PICTURE OF THE TOP OF A COLUMN THAT HE'S SHOWING TO EVERYONE.
THAT'S AN ELECTRONIC PHOTOGRAPH THAT WE'LL NEED TO INCORPORATE INTO THE RECORD THAT SHOWS SOME DETAILING AT THE TOP OF THE COLUMN SHOW.
WOULD, DID THE BASE HAVE TO BE SIMILAR? A LITTLE TALLER PROPORTION LIKE THAT? I CAN SEND IT TO YOU AND THEN YOU SEND ME THAT.
I'LL FORWARD THAT TO THE CLERK.
AND, AND, UH, IS THAT THE PICTURE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? YES SIR.
YOU WOULD DO IT THAT WAY? THAT'S A PROPOSAL.
WE'LL DO THAT EXACT THING AT THE TOP.
MY QUESTION WAS USUALLY IT'S, IT'S MIRRORED AT THE BOTTOM AND A BIGGER SCALE, LITTLE TALLER SCALE THAN WHATEVER YOU DID AT THE TOP.
YOU DO AT THE BOTTOM, THEY WOULD MIRROR EACH OTHER.
AND THE BOTTOM IS SOMETIMES BIGGER.
I, I WOULD ONLY ADD THAT WE HAVE THE RAILING, WHICH IS QUITE LOW.
WE HAVE A WAIVER FOR THAT 23 INCH RAILING.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE PUT THAT THERE, THAT WE, IT WOULD CONFLICT BECAUSE OF THE STRAIGHT OR COLONIAL IT RAIL YOU HAVE AND THEN IT'S HOOKED TO THAT.
I DON'T OBJECT TO IT, BUT THAT'S JUST MY ONLY, IT'S JUST A FOOT.
THINK OF IT AS A FOOT IS LIKE A BASE.
ALL I, I HATE TO SAY DO YOU WANT I, I I THINK IT LOOKS FINE AND I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT IF THE COMMITTEE FEELS THAT WOULD BE BETTER TO BOUNCE.
BUT I'M TALKING EARLIER ABOUT THE MOLDING.
SO DOES IT, DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND OR RECAP ONE MORE THAT WHAT, WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS AND THUS THE MOTION SQUARE POLES, CAMPER, CAMPER, UM, THE, UH, MOLDING AT THE TOP AND BOTTOM OF THE SQUARE POLES.
UM, DECKING FOUR INCHES, NO FRET WORK, NO FRET WORK DECKING FOUR INCHES RUNS PERPENDICULAR TO THE STRUCTURE OR, UH, MITERED AT THE CORNERS.
I I DO HAVE A QUESTION WE HAVE TO AGREE ON OR NOT AGREE ON TONGUE AND GROOVE
[01:40:01]
OR PLAN.'CAUSE I'M SORRY, WE HAVE TO AGREE IF IT'S OKAY FOR THE HER TO DO PLANK OR TONGUE AND GROOVE.
I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY THING WE, THE PROPOSAL IS NOT HAVING TONGUE AND GROOVE.
I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT'S MIGHT BE ON THE, ON THE LINE.
UM, WELL, WE, I I I'M SUGGESTING IT, IT ISN'T REQUIRED.
IT'S, IT'S SUGGESTED THAT WE VOTE ON IT AND, AND IT WOULD BE THE OPINION OF THIS BOARD BY VOTE, WHETHER THAT WORKS OR NOT.
UH, MR. CHAIR, I, I, YOU KNOW, GETTING WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT GREGORY, IS, SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF THIS WHICH COULD PASS.
THERE ARE ELEMENTS THAT MIGHT NOT LIKE THE TONGUE AND GROOVE IS IS BUT THAT COULD BE A SECOND VOTE.
SO INSTEAD OF MAYBE DOING ALL IN ONE I I, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? SO ALLOW ME TO BE HELPFUL, MR. CHAIR.
SO THE APPLICATION BEFORE YOU CONSISTS OF A LOT OF MOVING PARTS MM-HMM
AND I THINK THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN VERY MALLEABLE THIS EVENING IN MODIFYING THE APPLICATION CONSISTENT WITH SOME OF THE, UM, DISCUSSION THAT YOU ALL HAVE HAD.
I THINK SHE HAS REACHED THE LIMIT OF HER MALLEABILITY AS IT COMES TO THE TONGUE AND GROOVE.
SO THE APPLICATION THAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU IS THE MODIFIED APPLICATION TO INCLUDE THE TONGUE AND GROOVE.
SO WHAT YOU ARE VOTING ON IS THAT APPLICATION TO NOT INCLUDE THE TONGUE AND GROOVE.
TO NOT INCLUDE THE TONGUE AND GROUP.
IF YOU FIND THAT THE APPLICATION IS INCONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES AND YOU CAN STATE A SPECIFIC BASIS WHERE IT FAILS TO MEET THE GUIDELINES, THEN IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO DENY THE APPLICATION.
IF YOU REVIEW THE APPLICATION AS IT'S BEEN AMENDED AND YOU CANNOT ARTICULATE A BASIS BY WHICH IT FAILS TO SATISFY THE GUIDELINES, THEN YOU MUST APPROVE THE APPLICATION.
EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THE GROUND RULES? I'M READY FOR A MOTION AND IF YOU WOULD INCLUDE THE VARIOUS DETAILS OF IT, THAT WOULD MAKE IT CLEARER.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE TO FIND THE APPLICATION FOR 5 0 7 DOUBLE CHECK.
EAST FRONT STREET TO BE NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEW BERN'S CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTION 15 4 11 15 4 29.
AND NEW BERN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT DESIGN PRINCIPLES 3.11 MODIFICATIONS, 3.2, 0.1, TWO AND THREE.
ENTRANCE IS 4.4, 0.12 AND FOUR WOOD, 5.1 AND TWO PAINT.
5.4 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND FOUR.
FINDINGS OF FACT THE STRUCTURE IS A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
THE PROJECT IS A MODIFICATION TO A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE PRIMARY AND SECONDARY ABCS.
THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
THE APPLICATION IS NOT IN CONGRESS WITH THE GUIDELINES.
I DO SUBMIT THE FOLLOWING AMENDMENTS TO THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION.
THE APPLICATION WILL HAVE SQUARE CAMPFORD POLES WITH DECORATIVE MOLDING, TOP AND BOTTOM.
THE DECK WOOD WILL BE REPLACED WITH FOUR INCH DECK, UH, PERPENDICULAR DECK AND PERPENDICULAR TO THE HOUSE AND MITERED AT THE CORNERS.
AND THERE'LL BE NO PRINT OF DECORATIVE MOLD.
OKAY, DO I HAVE A SECOND FOR THAT? MOTION.
WE APPROVE THE MOTION AS STATED.
MOTION TO APPROVE THE OR ISSUE THE CO OA.
WE APPROVE THE CO OA OR ISSUE THE COA.
WE BOTH THANK YOU FOR BEING PATIENT WITH US TOO, BUT YOU KNOW, I MEAN, ANY DETAIL LIKE THAT, IT'S A MATTER OF LOOKING ALL.
[01:45:05]
OKAY, THANK YOU.UM, CAN I HAVE, UH, WHO MADE THE MOTION AND SECOND FOR THE COA PLEASE? WHO MADE THE MOTION ISSUE OR, UH, RICHARD MADE THE MOTION.
AND WHO MADE THE SECOND? I DO TE AND IT WAS UNANIMOUS? YES.
[5.C. 221 Middle St. – to include a façade renovation and new sign in the Primary AVC, plus adding a walk-in cooler in the Tertiary AVC.]
2 21.OKAY, SO THIS IS THE APPLICATION FOR 2 21 MIDDLE STREET.
UH, THE OWNER IS ANDY SCHIFF AND THE APPLICANT'S NAME IS AMY PERRY.
UH, SEE ATTACHED DOCUMENTS FOR ALL THE ABOVE INFORMATION REQUIRED, AND THEY'VE PROVIDED THE CHECK MARK ITEMS AND MS. PERRY IS HERE TO REPRESENT THE OWNER AS SHE SIGNED THE DOCUMENT AND ALSO PROVIDED THE GENERAL INFORMATION.
LET'S SEE, WHERE ARE WE? I HAVE A HARD COPY OF THAT LETTER.
I APPARENTLY, UH, DID NOT PUT IN YOUR OWNER'S AUTHORIZATION.
HERE'S A HARD COPY OF THE RECORDS.
THERE IS A COPY IN HOUSE, IN THE HOUSE.
SO THEN THIS IS THE, UH, GENERAL OVERVIEW, UH, DESCRIPTION OF THE WORK, UH, INCLUDING FOR THE EXTERIOR FACADES.
UH, THE WINDOWS, UH, THE GUIDELINES ARE REFERENCED HERE.
MODIFICATIONS, OH, THESE ARE ALL THE GUIDELINES THAT THEY'RE PRESENTING.
UH, PROVIDED A DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE MATERIALS, INCLUDING A, A HYDRAULIC FIVE-FOLD DOOR SYSTEM.
UM, WHAT IS THE MATERIAL OF THAT WOOD OR METAL OR OTHERWISE? WELL, THIS LOOKS LIKE IT SAYS METAL.
AND PLANTER BOX? I'M NOT SURE.
THAT WAS, THAT WAS, UM, THAT WAS FROM BEFORE.
YEAH, SO THAT IS A, THAT IS INCORRECT.
SO THERE, THAT WAS FROM THE, THE PREVIOUS ONE.
SO THERE IS NO PLANTER BOX, THERE'S NOT A HYDRAULIC BIFOLD DOOR, SO THOSE SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.
AS WELL AS THE TRAILERS THAT IS ALSO ELIMINATED.
I'M TAKING SOME NOTES AND PLANTER BOX.
SO THERE IS STILL A DOOR THOUGH? THERE'S STILL A A, A FOLDABLE DOOR, CORRECT? IT IS A, A BI FOLDING DOOR SYSTEM.
SO VERSUS THE UPWARD LIFT OF THE HYDRAULIC DOOR, IT'S THE SIDE, IT'S A MANUAL SIDE.
SO, AND THEN, UH, THESE ARE THE, UH, UH, PHOTOS THEY PROVIDED THE LAST TIME.
AND THIS TIME, UH, UH, SHOW YOU THE, UH, EXISTING CONDITION FOR THE FRONT FACADE.
UH, SOME CLOSEUPS OF THE, UH, UPPER LEFT CORNER OF THE FACADE AND THE, UH, CANOPY ROOF CLOSE UP OF THE, UH, UPPER LEFT WINDOW IN ITS CONDITIONS.
THEN INSIDE THE CANOPY ROOF, UM, OR INSIDE THE, THE BUILDING BEHIND THE CANOPY ROOF, UH, YOU CAN SEE THERE HAD BEEN AT SOME POINT A, UM, UM, TRANSOM WINDOWS, I GUESS YOU COULD CALL 'EM ACROSS THE FACADE.
UH, AND THEN THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE NEIGHBORING, UH, CONDITION THAT THEY'RE EMULATING.
HERE WE GO AGAIN, AS WE ALL KNOW.
AND THEN, UH, THEY PROVIDED NEW PHOTOGRAPH OF THE EXTERIOR, OF THE REAR OF THE BUILDING, WHERE THE ADDITIONAL ITEM HERE IS, UH, ADDING A WALK-IN FREEZER ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE BUILDING, ESSENTIALLY WHERE THE DOUBLE DOORS ARE.
AND THEN CUTTING IN A NEW DOOR WHERE IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A DOOR THERE.
BUT THAT'S ACTUALLY A DOOR LEANING AGAINST THE WALL.
UH, SO HERE'S THE PROPOSED, UH, CURRENT ELEVATION OF THE FACADE.
THE CANOPY HERE IS THE WHITE STRIPING HERE, AND THEN BELOW THAT IS THE CURRENT STOREFRONT, UH, WHICH HAS, UH, THE ANGLED, UH, IN PLAN VIEW DOWN HERE.
YOU SEE IT, UH, THE LEFT SIDE IS ANGLED TOWARDS THE DOORS, UH, AND IT ALSO HAS THE SMALL, UM, UH, BULKHEAD AT THE BOTTOM AS WELL.
SO THEN AS OPPOSED TO THAT, THERE IS THIS NEW ELEVATION PROPOSED.
AND, UH, UH, SO ALL OF THAT STORE FRONT'S
[01:50:01]
BEEN REMOVED AND BEING REPLACED.UM, AND THERE'S ANOTHER PLAN VIEW DOWN HERE.
SO INSTEAD OF THE DOOR ON THE RIGHT, THE DOOR WILL BE ON THE LEFT.
UM, AND THE, UH, FRONT FACADE WILL BE PARALLEL WITH THE STREET NOT ANGLED.
AND THEN ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, YOU SEE THESE DASH LINES HERE.
THIS IS WHERE THE, ALL THOSE DOORS WOULD STACK ALL THE WAY ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, UH, WHEN OPENED.
UH, THESE WINDOWS ACTUALLY NOT DOORS.
UM, THEN ABOVE THAT, UH, THERE'S A WHITE STRIP, A THIN WHITE STRIPE HERE THAT IS A NEW, UM, UH, METAL FRAMED AWNING WITH TRANSLUCENT ROOF PANELS.
YOU JUST SEE THE FRONT EDGE OF IT WITH, UH, SOME LITTLE DASH LINES ABOVE THAT COULD REPRESENT THE, UH, THE MOUNTAINS BETWEEN THE VARIOUS PANELS OF WA OF GLASS.
UH, AND THEN, UH, THE TRANSOM WINDOWS HAVE BEEN, UM, GUESS REPLICATED AGAIN, MAYBE SMALLER AND MAYBE, UH, DIFFERENT PROPORTIONS TO EACH.
BUT, UH, UH, IN THAT, IN THIS CASE, UH, RESTORED IN THAT MANNER.
AND THEN ABOVE THAT, A NEW, UH, SIGN, UH, BAND ACROSS THE, ACROSS THE TOP.
ALL OF THIS THEN, UH, AROUND THE PERIMETER AND THROUGHOUT IS ALL WOODWORK, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THAT, UH, METAL, METAL AND GLASS AWNING.
UH, AND PREVIOUSLY THERE HAD BEEN A SIGN AT THE TOP THAT IS NOW NO LONGER THERE.
SO THIS SAYS SECTION THROUGH THAT AWNING AND THE TRANSOMS, UH, AND THEN THE, UH, SIGN BOARD ABOVE THAT, OR SIGN BAND THEY CALL IT.
UM, IN THE BACKGROUND HERE, THE HORIZONTAL STRIPING IS ACTUALLY A V GROUP WOOD PANELING, AND THAT'S BEING PAINTED.
AND THEN BEHIND THIS ON THE RIGHT SIDE SHOWS THE SECTION THROUGH THOSE FOLDING, UH, WINDOWS THAT WILL SLIDE OPEN AT THE END, UH, WITH THEN THE BULKHEAD AT THE BOTTOM IS A WOOD FRAMING, WOOD PANELING, UH, ON THE OUTSIDE.
THEN ON THE REAR, THIS IS THE CURRENT, UH, REAR ELEVATION, THE DOUBLE DOORS THERE IN THE MIDDLE AND THE NEW REAR ELEVATION.
WE'LL HAVE THEN THE WALK-IN FREEZER IN FRONT OF THAT WITH, UH, A PAINTED WOOD FENCE AROUND THAT AS A SCREEN.
UM, AND THEN THE NEW DOOR ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, OOPS.
SO THAT'S A SECTION THROUGH THE WALK-IN FREEZER.
SO THE WALK-IN FREEZER IS GOING TO BUTT UP AGAINST THE BUILDING AT, UH, THE TOP AND THE OF THE SIDES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
HAVE A NEW CONCRETE FOOTING AND FOUND FLOOR AND, UH, UM, UH, FOOTING EDGES.
AND THEN THE WOOD SCREEN IS SET OFF FROM THAT, UH, COUPLE OF FEET.
UM, AND IT ALL FITS UNDERNEATH THAT EXISTING ROOFING THAT'S THERE.
I CAN'T SHOWING THE OPENING THAT'S CURRENTLY THE DOUBLE DOORWAY.
AND THEY WILL BE, UM, MODIFYING THAT DOORWAY TO FACILITATE THE, UM, DOOR FOR THE WALK-IN FREEZER OR COOLER.
THERE'S A NEW RAMP, I GUESS, GOING IN HERE AS WELL.
IS THAT RIGHT? ON THE NEXT TO THE COOLER? CORRECT.
TO GET UP TO THE, SO THAT AT THE DOOR WHERE WE'RE PUTTING IN THAT NEW DOOR TO CREATE A EVEN ACCESSIBLE LANDING, A NEW CONCRETE, AND THEN THERE'LL HAVE TO BE SOME MANNER OF SLOWING DOWN TO THE EXISTING ASPHALT.
FOR DELIVERY DOLLIES AND STUFF.
SO THIS IS A RENDERED RENDERING OF THE FRONT FACADE.
SO WE HAVE AN IDEA WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE.
AND REMEMBER THE DOORWAY HERE ON THE LEFT IS PUSHED BACK FARTHER THAN THE, UH, WINDOWS HERE ON THE RIGHT.
AND WE HAVE A, A SMALL AWNING, UH, HANGING OUT OVER TOP OF ALL OF THAT.
AND THEN, UM, A LOT OF, UH, UH, DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT DOORS, THE, THE, UM, BI-FOLD DOORS, OR I'M SORRY, I CALL 'EM DOORS, BUT THEY'RE WINDOWS.
SORRY, IT IS ACTUALLY A DOOR SYSTEM, BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, SERVING THE PURPOSE OF WINDOWS.
THANK YOU FOR TRYING TO RESCUE ME ON THAT ONE,
[01:55:02]
UM, BUT ONE OF THE INTERESTING PIECES IS THAT THE MUONS ARE INDEED THE THREE, UH, THREE PIECE, UH, MUONS THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR DOUBLE GLAZING.UM, LEMME GIVE YOU SOME IDEA HERE ON THE, ON THE RIGHT, UH, HOW THAT KIND OF WORKS.
BUT IT'LL ALL GO TO ONE SIDE, NOT BOTH SIDES.
AND SEE ALSO HERE AT THE TOP AN IMAGE HOW THAT ENTIRE SPACE CAN BE OPENED UP AND STACK ON ONE SIDE.
SO, AND THEY'RE SHOWING, UM, I GUESS COLORS AND MATERIALS FOR THE WOOD.
SO, AND THAT THESE ARE, UM, ACTUAL WOOD PIECES.
YOU ALSO PROVIDED SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT THE, UH, WHAT THE STREET LOOKED LIKE BACK IN THE, UH, WHAT EARLY 19 HUNDREDS I WOULD SAY, OR LATE 18 HUNDREDS.
AND THE BUILDING UNDER QUESTION IS HERE ON THE LEFT.
IS THAT IT? WELL, IT'S, I GUESS BEFORE THIS BUILDING WAS ACTUALLY IN PLACE, 'CAUSE UH, THIS IS THE HOTEL ALBERT, THAT IS THE LOCATION WHERE IT WOULD BE THOUGH, CORRECT? YEAH.
SO THAT THE CURRENT BUILDING IS NOT THERE YET.
UH, AND THEN SOME EXAMPLES OF OTHER AWNINGS.
UH, THESE ARE, THESE ARE PROJECTING OUT QUITE A BIT FARTHER THAN THE ONES PROPOSED.
UH, THEY ALSO HAVE A BIT MORE DECORATIVE, UH, UH, FILL AGREES OR WHATEVER IN THE, UH, METAL MEMBERS AND THE ROOF IS A BIT STEEPER.
SO, BUT, UM, JUST AS INSPIRATION FOR THE, UM, DESIGN FOR THAT, OUR NEXT, UH, ITEM IS OUR ZONING AND INSPECTIONS REPORT.
UH, THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR, UH, HAS INDICATED THAT A DEPARTMENTAL SITE PLAN REVIEW WILL BE REQUIRED AND ASSIGNED PERMIT WILL ALSO BE REQUIRED.
UH, THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR INDICATES THAT THERE WILL, UH, IT WILL REQUIRE A BUILDING PERMIT.
UH, BUILDING AND MECHANICAL PERMITS ARE REQUIRED.
SO THEN WE'RE READY WITH OUR STAFF REPORT WHEN YOU ARE.
IS THERE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? I DON'T THINK SO.
ARE THERE PROPONENTS OR OPPONENTS OF, OF THIS, UH, PROPOSAL THAT ARE HERE THAT RECEIVED NOTICE FROM THE CITY? WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? I DID NOT SWEAR IN NOT TO SWEAR.
DID, DID YOU WATCH? WISH IT MARK.
UM, YOU RECEIVED A NOTICE, BLUE MAGNOLIA? YEP.
MR. CHAIR, IF WE COULD HAVE HIM REPEAT ALL OF THAT INFORMATION INTO THE MICROPHONE.
IF WE COULD HAVE HIM REPEAT ON SWEAR.
WE NEED HIM TO, IF WE SWEARS IN, YOU CAN REPEAT ALL THAT.
UH, YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
I'M AN OWNER OF BLUE MAGNOLIA HERE WITH MY WIFE ELLEN, AND WE LIVE NEXT DOOR, OR NOT LIVE NEXT DOOR.
UM, SHE HAS BLUE MAGNOLIA, WHICH IS RIGHT ADJACENT TO THE PROPOSED BUILDING.
UM, WE'VE BEEN IN FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW.
UM, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH 'EM.
UM, THEY'VE, EVERY TIME THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE PICKUP HERE OR THERE, EVERYTHING'S WORKED OUT.
SO I'M, I'M HAPPY THAT THEY'RE COMING IN.
I'M HAPPY THAT THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
UM, WE DO HAVE ONE ISSUE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT AND WE, WE'VE COME TO AN AGREEMENT, THEY'RE GONNA ACTUALLY CHECK ON THAT.
WE'VE GOT SOME POSSIBLE STRUCTURAL ISSUES WITH THE, UM, AWNING, UM, THAT WE JUST, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT'S ADDRESSED AND IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE'RE GONNA HAVE ANY PROBLEMS ON THAT AND WE'LL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, THE EXISTING AWNING? YES.
WELL, WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY, UM, FOUNDATION, UM, THROUGH THE WALL, THE STRUCTURE, HOW IT'S, UH, GOING OUT.
UM, THEY'VE GOT THOSE, UM, LONG SECURING RODS THAT RUN INTO THE BUILDING THAT ARE ATTACHED VIA LARGE METAL PIECES THAT GO INTO THE CON, INTO THE BRICK.
UM, WE'RE JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
UM, OTHER THAN THAT, I, I REALLY LIKE EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE DOING, UM, IN THE BACK.
I THINK WHEN THEY BUILT THE, UM, THE WALK-IN AREA, THE, THERE'S ACTUALLY A DRAIN OVER THERE ON THAT SIDE.
I WOULD JUST BE A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT WATER DRAINING INTO
[02:00:01]
THAT OFF FROM THE, THE RUNOFF FROM THE BUILDINGS.UM, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY LOW SPOT.
AND IF I'M CORRECT, UH, DURING THE LAST FLOOD DURING FLORENCE, THEY HAD ISSUES IN THAT.
ARCHITECT AND THE ENGINEERS OKAY.
BUT I REALLY LIKE WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
JOHN, DO YOU
UH, MY WIFE MICHAEL LEE, AND I LIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF, UH, THE PROPERTY, EXCUSE ME, OF THE, UM, THE RESTAURANT THAT'S THERE NOW.
AND ASHLEY HAS BEEN AN EXCEPTIONAL NEIGHBOR.
UH, I HAVE TO DITTO EVERYTHING THAT HE SAID.
I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT BIG ASS AWNING COMING DOWN
SO IT'S OVER THAT OTHER BUILDING.
SO IT'LL BE NOTHING BUT JUST A, ANOTHER ATTRACTION ON MIDDLE STREET.
UM, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE ADDRESS IS? WHERE YOU LIVE? IT'S, UH, SAY AGAIN? WHAT'S THE ADDRESS FOR WHERE YOU LIVE? TWO 17TH HILL TWO.
RIGHT NEXT DOOR, SIX INCHES AWAY.
SO YOU, YOU LIVE ABOVE, YOU LIVE ABOVE? UM, YEAH.
IS THERE ANYONE, UH, WHO WAS NOT NOTIFIED BY THE CITY, UH, BUT HAS ISSUES WITH, OR, OR WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT ANY INFORMATION IN RELATIONSHIP TO THIS PROJECT? SEE NONE.
I THINK WE'RE READY FOR YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
THIS IS THE STAFF REPORT FOR 2 21 MIDDLE STREET.
THE APPLICANT IS ANDY SCHIFF AND, UH, AMY PERRY.
AND THE HISTORIC PROPERTY NAME IS THE SCOTT BUILDING, CIRCA 1885 WAS REMODELED AND ENLARGED CIRCA 1920 TO 23.
SO I GUESS THAT IMAGE WAS FROM BEFORE 1885.
THE PROJECT IS TO INCLUDE A FACADE, RENOVATION AND NEW SIGN IN THE PRIMARY A, B, C PLUS ADDING A WALK-IN COOLER IN THE TERTIARY A, B, C.
THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY DESCRIPTION FROM 2003, UH, SAYS IT'S TWO STORIES.
IT'S BRICK CORNER, PYLA DEFINING THREE, UH, TWO THREE BAY SECTIONS, AND A CORBEL CORNES.
THE SANDECK DESCRIPTION FROM 1988, IS THAT DURING THE EARLY 1980S, SOLOMON, I CAN'T BE 1880S.
MUST BE, UH, SOLOMON H SCOTT ESTABLISHED DELIVERY STABLE IN A COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE, WHICH HAD STOOD ON THIS SITE SINCE THE 1880S, SO THAT MUST BE EARLY 19 HUNDREDS.
THEN, UH, THIS EARLY STRUCTURE WAS EXTENSIVELY REMODELED CIRCA 1923 WHEN THE PRESENT PRESSED BRICK FACADE WAS ADDED BETWEEN THE 1920S AND THE 1940S, THE SCOTT FAMILY LEASED THE BUILDING TO TRENT MOTOR COMPANY AND THE CAROLINA RUBBER SUPPLY COMPANY.
SINCE 1943, IT HAS BEEN OCCUPIED BY SCOTT AND COMPANY, A REFRIGERATION AND PROPANE BUSINESS OPERATED BY THE DESCENDANTS OF SH SCOTT, BOTH BUILDINGS 2 21 AND 2 23 MIDDLE STREET DISPLAY CONSERVATIVE, NEARLY IDENTICAL FACADE OF PRESSED BRICK WITH DETAILING CONSISTING OF CORNER PILE ESTERS, PLAYING CORDED CORNICES AND STONE LENTILS ABOVE THE WINDOW OPENINGS.
SO STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING, HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES IS APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION FOR UTILITIES 2.3 0.1 FOR FENCING, 2.5 0.1, AND THREE FOR SIGNAGE, 2.8, 0.12 AND FOUR FOR DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1, 0.1, TWO, FOUR, AND FIVE FOR MODIFICATIONS, 3.2, 0.1, TWO, FOUR, AND FIVE FOR WALLS, TRIM AND ORNAMENTATION, 4.2 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND FOUR, WINDOWS, DOORS AND OPENINGS, 4.3 0.1 ENTRANCES, 4.4 0.1 AND THREE.
UH, FOR METALS, 5.3 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND FOUR PER PAINT, 5.4, 0.2 AND THREE.
AND FOR MASONRY MAINTENANCE, 6, 1, 2, 3, AND FOUR.
[02:05:01]
MAINTENANCE, 6, 5, 6, AND SEVEN.A REASON BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION AND STAFF'S JUDGMENT ARE ONE, THE PROJECT IS A FACADE RENOVATION AND EQUIPMENT INSTALLATION WITHIN THE DENSE FABRIC DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
TWO, THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE GUIDELINES.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
AND FOUR, THE PROJECT IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES.
THE HPC MAY WANT TO CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.
ONE, UH, REISE PLANS, ACCORDING TO THE CHANGES AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING, SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES AND PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS DIVISION.
THAT CONCLUDES OUR STAFF REPORT.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS? I, I DO HAVE KIND OF A FOLLOW UP.
DURING THE WORKSHOP, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE AWNING AND WHETHER THAT WAS GOING TO, AND WHAT KIND OF MATERIAL THAT WAS GONNA BE.
WHERE, WHAT, WHERE ARE WE SITTING RIGHT NOW? IS IT, ARE YOU LOOKING AT GLASS? YOU'RE LOOKING AT GLASS.
SO THAT'S A MODIFICATION TO WHAT WE HAVE, CORRECT? CORRECT.
AND, AND JUST OUT OF ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION, JUST BECAUSE THE WOOD, IT, IT'S LABELED WOOD BY FOLD DOORS ON THEIR CUT SHEET AND READING THROUGH THAT, THEY DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE FRAME AND THE PANEL AND THEY SAY THE FRAME IS WOOD ON BOTH SIDES.
WHEN THEY DESCRIBE THE PANEL, THEY SAY IT'S CLEAR PINE TO THE INTERIOR AND EXTRUDED ALUMINUM TO THE EXTERIOR.
THEY ARE ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS.
SO ON THE EXTERIOR THEY ARE CLAD WITH AN ALUMINUM FINISH.
AND ON THE INTERIOR IT WOULD BE AN EX, AN EXPOSED WOOD FINISH.
WERE QUESTIONS? NOPE, NO QUESTIONS.
YEAH, AND I GUESS IN BACKGROUND OF THAT IS THEY ALREADY HAD CHANGED THE FACILITY THERE IN A RECENT TIME, SO YEAH, JUST WAS ASKING BECAUSE THE DESCRIPTION IS DECEPTIVE TO SAY IT'S A WOOD DOOR.
IT IS ON THE, UM, THE SECTION THERE THAT'S SHOWING IT, IT'S LISTED AS AN ALUMINUM CLA.
JUST, JUST THE TWO DESCRIPTIONS.
I MOVE, I MOVE TO FIND THE APPLICATION FOR THE PROJECT AT 2 2 1 MIDDLE STREET TO BE NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE NEW BURNS CODE OF ORDINANCES.
SECTIONS 15.411 THROUGH 15.429 AND NEW BERN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT STANDARDS BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDING OF FACT SECTIONS TWO FENCES AND WALLS TWO, SIGNAGE 2.8 AND 2.84.
DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1, 0.3, 3.4 AND 3.15.
MODIFICATIONS, 3.3 0.3 POINT AND THREE POINT WALL TRIMS AND ORNAMENTATION.
WINDOWS 4.31 ENTRANCES, 4.4 0.1 AND 4.4 0.3.
MASONRY, 5.1, 0.1, 5.2, AND 5.4 WOOD, FIVE POINT AND 5.2.
METALS, 5.3, 5.32, 5.3 AND 5.3 POINT PAINT, 5.42 AND 5.4 0.3.
MASONRY MAINTENANCE, 6.1, 6.1 0.2 6.1 0.3, AND 6.1 0.4.
AND WOOD MAINTENANCE, 6.1, 6.6, AND 6.1 0.7.
AND THE FINDINGS OF FACT, BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION ARE ONE, THE STRUCTURE AT THIS ADDRESS IS A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE IN THE DENSE FABRIC DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
THE PROPOSED PROJECT INCLUDES FACADE, RENOVATIONS AND EQUIPMENT INSTALLATION.
THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, ALSO KNOWN AS GUIDELINES.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
THE APPLICATION IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE
[02:10:01]
HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.DO WE WANT TO CLARIFY THE CHANGED FROM POLYCARBON TO GLASS? UH, UH, TAKEN? YES.
IT WAS AN AMENDED, IT'S NOW GLASS WITH, WITH THE AMENDMENTS AS NOTED AND TALKED ABOUT, PRIMARILY THE CHANGE OF THE POLYCARBONATE TO GLASS ON THE AWNING STRUCTURE.
IS THAT, WAS THAT NOT NOTED IN THE, UH, IN THE PROPOSAL? THE ONE I'M LOOKING AT SAYS
UM, DO WE, DO WE ALSO NEED TO CLARIFY, UH, THAT THERE'S NOT THE HYDRAULIC BI-FOLDS IN THE PLANTER BOX IN THE TRELLIS THAT ARE ALSO IN THE APPLICATION AS WELL AS SOME OF THE COMPONENTS THAT WERE IN EARLIER, UM, APPLICATION, INCLUDING THE TRELLIS, THE WINDOW BOXES, AND THE HYDRAULIC BI-FOLDS.
WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT I DON'T THINK SO.
WE, UH, APPROVE THE APPLICATION.
WE APPROVE THIS CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
AND THANK YOU NEIGHBORS FOR COMING TONIGHT.
YEAH, YOU MUST BE A GOOD NEIGHBOR.
UH, IS THERE ANY OLD BUSINESS? OKAY, THANK YOU.
UM, RICHARD, COULD YOU DO THE SECOND LOAN? COA? YES.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY OLD BUSINESS.
[7. GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS]
UH, GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS? YES, MA'AM.MY NAME IS RE BLISS AND I'M A RESIDENT OF DOWNTOWN NEW BERN.
UM, I CAME HERE WITH A REQUEST, BUT FIRST I WANT TO GROUND THIS GROUP JUST IN THE PURPOSE OF THE NEW BERN GUIDELINES.
THE PURPOSE IS TO HELP PRESERVE THE HISTORIC CHARACTER AND ARCHITECTURAL FABRIC OF NEW BERN.
THE INTENT IS NOT TO PREVENT PHYSICAL CHANGE OR IMPOSE PARTICULAR ARCHITECTURAL STYLES, BUT TO MODERATE CHANGE OF WHILE PROTECTING ARCHITECTURAL GEMS, REDUCING CHA, REDUCING DISLOCATION CAUSED BY RANDOM CHANGE.
THE GOAL TO MAINTAIN OUR COMMUNITY'S INDIVIDUAL CHARACTER AND SENSE OF PLACE.
SO THAT IS WHY THE GUIDELINES EXIST.
I AM HERE TO REQUEST REVISIONS TO THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, WHICH REQUIRES A TEXT AMENDMENT ON APRIL 2ND.
I MADE THIS REQUEST AT THE HPC DESIGN AND REVIEW MEETING, AND I WAS DECLINED.
ONLY ONE HPC MEMBER WAS FAMILIAR WITH TEXT AMENDMENTS.
THE HPC AND HPA INSISTED THAT YOU COULD MAKE CHANGES WITHIN THE HPC ITSELF.
YOU OFFERED TO HELP ME BY, UM, HAVING ME CON, UH, SUBMIT MY CONCERNS IN WRITING.
AND YOU TOLD ME MAYBE YOU WOULD EVEN CALL ME, BUT THAT WON'T GET THE JOB DONE.
ANY CHANGES TO THE GUIDELINES DO IN FACT REQUIRE A TEXT AMENDMENT, WHICH IS A LEGAL PROCESS THAT INVOLVES PLANNING, ITS ZONING, THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN AND OTHERS.
THE CURRENT GUIDELINES AND PRACTICES BEG LEGAL QUESTIONS ARE INCONSISTENTLY ENFORCED, SPLIT THE DISTRICT INTO HAVE AND HAVE NOTS, IGNORE SUSTAINABILITY AND RESILIENCY AND UNDERMINE THE HPCS VERY PURPOSE, INTENT, AND GOALS.
THE LAST TIME WE MET, I SHARED SEVERAL EXAMPLES, UNDERSCORING ISSUES THAT NEED ATTENTION.
POINT TWO IF FOLLOWED, CAN POTENTIALLY VOID APPLIANCE WARRANTIES.
IT DEFINITELY WILL IF YOU OWN A RENA.
REPLACEMENT IN KIND DOES NOT SEEM TO BE CONSISTENTLY ENFORCED, AND NEW BERN HAS A STRICTER DEFINITION THAN THAT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR OR SHIPPO.
IN THIS MEETING, YOU CAN CHOOSE TO INITIATE OR DEFER MY REQUEST FOR A TEXT AMENDMENT.
INITIATING LAUNCHES THE PROCESS UNDER YOUR LEADERSHIP, WHICH IS MOST APPROPRIATE.
AND THE MOST DIRECT PATH DEFERRING WILL SHIFT RESPONSIBILITY TO THE COMMUNITY, THE CITY OR THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN.
THE HPC BOARD IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL AUTHORITY.
YOU ARE ENTRUSTED WITH ADMINISTERING LEGALLY ENFORCEABLE GUIDELINES TO QUOTE, MAINTAIN OUR COMMUNITY'S INDIVIDUAL CHARACTER AND SENSE OF PLACE.
[02:15:01]
THE COMMUNITY ARE FRUSTRATED.THEY WANNA SEE THE GUIDELINES MODERNIZED TO FIT THE NEEDS OF TODAY.
THE MOST EFFICIENT AND APPROPRIATE PATH FOR IS FOR THE HPC TO INITIATE THE PROCESS I'VE DONE, AS YOU ASKED, AND I PUT MY KEY CONCERNS IN WRITING, I'VE ALSO PROVIDED SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS AND AN OUTLINE OF THE TEXT AMENDMENT PROCESS THAT LEVERAGES ALREADY EXISTING SCHEDULED MEETINGS.
THE TIMING FOR ACTION IS RIPE.
THE CITY IS CURRENTLY UPDATING ITS LAND USE ORDINANCES.
THERE'S EXPERTISE AT YOUR DISPOSAL, AND THERE'S A CLEAR APPETITE TO DO THIS WORK NOW TO START MAKING A CHANGE THAT COMMUNITY NEEDS.
THE HPC CAN DIRECT THE STAFF TO DRAFT A TEXT AMENDMENT.
YOU WOULD DO THIS BY ONE OF YOU MAKING A MOTION, A DIFFERENT MEMBER SECONDING THAT A MOTION THAN A VOTE IS TAKEN.
IF THE MAJORITY OF YOU VOTE YES, IT WOULD RESULT IN THE STAFF BEING DIRECTED TO DRAFT THE AMENDMENT.
UM, I, I THINK I DESCRIBED IN THE THE EARLIER MEETING THAT WE HAVE A PROCESS FOR MAKING CHANGES AND THAT PROCESS IS ONGOING AND, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE GOING TO COMPLETE IT.
AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, WE'RE DOING WHAT WE NEED TO DO.
I I WOULD, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR SPECIFIC CHANGES THAT YOU'D LIKE AND WE'LL CONSIDER THEM.
WELL GIVE, GIVE US A COPY OF IT.
I, I WOULD THEN JUST LIKE YOUR RESPONSE IN THIS MEETING ON THE RECORD, YOU ALL TOLD ME IN THE LAST MEETING THAT TEXT AMENDMENTS WERE NOT REQUIRED TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE GUIDELINES.
WELL, CAN WE ANSWER WHAT I EXPLAIN TO YOU AND WHAT WAS, UH, VERIFIED BY, BY OUR STAFF IS THAT WE DON'T REQUIRE THE ALDERMAN'S, UH, APPROVAL TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE STANDARDS.
WE HAVE THOUGH, STATED THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO GET THEIR APPROVAL AND THAT'S OUR INTENT.
WHEN WE MAKE CHANGES, WE WOULD SUBMIT IT TO THE ALDERMAN TO MAKE, CAN LEGAL SPEAK TO THAT? THE LEGAL PROCESS? MM-HMM
TO CHANGE A GUIDELINE REQUIRES A TEXT AMENDMENT THAT REQUIRES THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AS WELL.
LEMME ASK OUR ATTORNEY TO COMMENT ON WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
AND, AND JUST FOR CLARITY'S SAKE, UM, THIS PORTION OF YOUR AGENDA IS FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS YEAH.
FOR YOU TO HEAR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC.
UM, BUT SINCE YOU'VE ASKED ME TO COMMENT AND, AND RESPOND, I WILL.
THE NEWBURN DESIGN STANDARDS, AKA GUIDELINES ARE INCORPORATED BY REFERENCE IN THE LAND USE ORDINANCE BECAUSE THEY'RE INCORPORATED IN THE LAND USE ORDINANCE.
THEY ARE A PART OF OUR CODE OF ORDINANCES.
THE BODY WITH THE POWER TO CHANGE OUR ORDINANCES IS THE NEW NEWBORN BOARD OF ALDERMEN.
SO THE PROCESS BY WHICH, AND IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR GUIDELINES, I THINK IT'S THE SECOND PAGE YOU'LL SEE WHEN THERE HAVE BEEN REVISIONS ADOPTED BY THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN.
UM, AND THAT'S A, A HELPFUL BREADCRUMB WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE PROCESS.
SO IF YOU ALL WERE INCLINED TO CONSIDER ANY REVISIONS TO THE GUIDELINES, WHICH I SEE, UM, UNDER THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM UNDER NEW BUSINESS, THERE'S A CONVERSATION ABOUT SUCH THINGS.
UM, YOU ALL WOULD HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT ANY PROPOSED CHANGES.
A MAJORITY OF YOU, IF YOU WERE IN SUPPORT OF SAID CHANGES, WOULD THEN SEND THAT INFORMATION TO THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN AND THEN THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN WOULD CONSIDER WHETHER THOSE CHANGES WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
IF THEY AGREE WITH YOU, THEN THE ORDINANCE, ESSENTIALLY THE LANGUAGE IN THE ORDINANCE WOULDN'T CHANGE, BUT THE GUIDELINES WOULD CHANGE, WHICH ARE INCORPORATED BY REFERENCE.
SO FOR CLARIFICATION, I I STAND CORRECTED.
WE DON'T, WE, WE ARE REQUIRED TO GET THEIR APPROVAL, BUT THE, THE PROCESS TO GET THAT I WOULD SAY REMAINS THE SAME.
WE, THE PROCESS, WE, WE HAVE AN ONGOING PROCESS OF LOOKING AT CHANGES.
WE MAKE THEM AND WE GET THE APPROVAL OF THE ULTIMATE.
AND THAT'S ONGOING AND THAT'S GONNA CONTINUE.
AND IF YOU'D LIKE TO INPUT SPECIFIC CHANGES THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE US MAKE, WE'D BE HAPPY TO HAVE THEM SEND, SEND THEM TO, TO MATT IN WRITING AND WE'LL CONSIDER THEM.
I WOULD LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CAPTURE THEM HERE FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION.
IF YOU DECLINE THAT, THAT IS FINE.
I WILL GET IT OUT VIA OTHER CHANNELS.
BUT I DO WANNA CLARIFY, UM, A TEXT AMENDMENT IS THE PROCESS TO CHANGE THE GUIDELINES.
YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE GUIDELINES WITHOUT A TEXT.
OUR GUIDELINES TO CHANGE THE STANDARDS IS JUST WHAT OUR ATTORNEY DESCRIBED.
UM, I ALSO WANNA CLARIFY FOR YOU THAT A TEXT AMENDMENT CAN BE INITIATED IN ONE OF THREE WAYS.
YOU CAN INITIATE A TEXT AMENDMENT.
THAT IS THE BEST WAY TO DO IT.
UM, IF YOU DON'T DO THAT, THEN A CITY DEPARTMENT HEAD CAN DO THAT.
[02:20:01]
THEY DON'T DO THAT, THEN THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN CAN DO THAT.I'M HERE ASKING YOU TO INITIATE THE PROCESS FOR A TEXT AMENDMENT, WHICH GETS A STAFF ASSIGNED TO IT.
SO, SO WHAT, WHICH IS THE LEADERSHIP POSITION.
AND, AND I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T CATCH WHAT WHAT ARE YOU ASKING A TEXT AMENDMENT ABOUT? DO YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC TEXT AGREEMENT? I DO.
I WOULD, CAN I SHARE A, I THINK THE EASIEST WAY TO DO IS THAT THE CHAIRMAN SUGGESTED IS IF YOU CAN SUBMIT IT IN WRITING SO WE HAVE A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT.
WE'RE GONNA BE HERE ALL NIGHT.
I WOULD LIKE YOU TO SUBMIT IN WRITING WHAT YOU'D LIKE AND WE, WE WILL AS ALWAYS USE OUR ATTORNEY TO DETERMINE THE CORRECT COURSE OF ACTION.
THIS BE PUT IN THE PUBLIC RECORD ALSO.
EVERY DOCUMENT, NOT EVERY, BUT DOCUMENTS RECEIVED BY THE HPC ARE PUBLIC RECORDS.
SO THIS WILL BE PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD DOCUMENTS RECEIVED BY THE HPC.
CAN I, DO I NEED TO PHYSICALLY HAND THAT? HAVE, HAS THAT DOCUMENT BEEN RECEIVED BY, IT HAS BEEN RECEIVED BY THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR, WHO IS THE STAFF MEMBER ASSIGNED TO THE HPC WHO HAS RECEIVED A DOCUMENT, WHICH IS NOW A PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD.
SO IT'LL GO IN THE PUBLIC RECORD.
AND THE DECISION IS TO DECLINE, TO VOTE, TO START, UH, THE TEXT AMENDMENT PROCESS, RIGHT? YES.
WELL, YOU CAN'T START A PROCESS WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT YOU'RE CHANGING.
YOU, THE, THE PROCESS DOES START IF, WELL, WE'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU THIS STARTED.
YOU, YOU REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE HAVE AN ONGOING PROCESS.
BUT YOU, YOU DECLINED TO ACCEPT IT.
I JUST LITERALLY GAVE YOU THE DOCUMENT.
YOU SURE DID, BUT I THINK YOU'RE CONFUSED ON, I'M NOT CONFUSED.
CAN I THINK YOU'RE CONFUSED? I, I CAN THE ATTORNEY, DR.
THE PROCESS TO DO A TEXT AMENDMENT.
MR. CHAIR, MAYBE I CAN BE HELPFUL.
'CAUSE I THINK THAT WE'RE TALKING PAST TO EACH OTHER.
IF A BOARD OR COMMISSION IS GOING TO INITIATE A TEXT AMENDMENT, THEY HAVE TO SAY WHAT TEXTS THEY WANT.
SO IF YOU ALL ARE INCLINED TO CHANGE YOUR GUIDELINES, THEN YOU WOULD NEED TO SAY WHICH SPECIFIC GUIDELINES YOU WANT TO CHANGE AND WHAT LANGUAGE YOU WANT IT TO BE.
AT THIS MOMENT, THERE IS NO LANGUAGE BEFORE YOU TO CONSIDER.
SO IF YOU ALL ARE INCLINED TO CHANGE YOUR GUIDELINES, YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT I ACTUALLY DID PROVIDE LANGUAGE, MR. CHAIR, AS I'M ADDRESSING THE BOARD, YOU CAN UNDER YOUR, YOUR NEXT ITEM ON YOUR AGENDA CALLED NEW BUSINESS EVALUATE LANGUAGE THAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO YOU IN ADVANCE OF THIS MEETING.
CUSTOMARILY, WHAT YOU ALL HAVE DONE IS WHEN THERE ARE CONSIDERATIONS TO CHANGE THE GUIDELINES, THAT LANGUAGE IS PRESENTED TO YOU AT LEAST A WEEK ADVANCE OF THE MEETING.
SO YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW IT, DIGEST IT, RECOMMEND CHANGES, AND HAVE ROBUST DISCUSSION ABOUT IT.
SO IF YOU ALL WANT TO PROCEED WITH THAT CONVERSATION, I THINK YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO TONIGHT LATER IN YOUR AGENDA.
IF THERE'S ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC MM-HMM.
THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER, THAT INFORMATION CAN BE DISSEMINATED TO YOU ALL DURING THE NORMAL CUSTOM, UH, COURSE OF BUSINESS FOR THIS BOARD.
AND YOU CAN CONSIDER IT AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME.
WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA CONSIDER, UH, UH, CHANGES LATER IN THE AGENDA.
AND THOSE ARE ONES WHICH WE'VE DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY.
AND THOSE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT WE'RE GOING TO DEAL WITH TONIGHT.
AND IT'S JUST, AS MY COMP PATRIOT HAS DESCRIBED, WE HAVE AN ONGOING PROCESS WHERE WE CONSIDER CHANGES AND WHEN WE RESOLVE TO MAKE THEM, WE VOTE ON IT AND WE SEND THEM TO THE ALTMAN.
I JUST, BEFORE I GO, I DO WANNA CLARIFY THAT THE PROCESS FOR A TEXT AMENDMENT, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE THE DRAFT IN FRONT OF YOU.
YOU CAN INITIATE THE PROCESS, WHICH STARTS TO EXPLORE THE GUIDELINES.
THAT IS HOW THE LEGAL PROCESS, WE'RE BEATING THE DEAD HORSE WORKS.
WE, WE, WE HAVE THE PROCESS AND WE'RE USING IT.
DOES WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT MATTER.
UM, I, I DID WHAT YOU ASKED AND I AM NOT WRONG ABOUT HOW THAT PROCESS STARTS.
[8.A. Revisions to the Historic District Design Principles and Standards]
REVISIONS TO HISTORIC, UH, DISTRICT, I DON'T HAVE A QUESTION THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING OTHER THAN YEAH, I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE WHY IT APPEARED.WAS THERE ONE YOU WANTED TO TALK? WELL, IT, IT WAS, UM, ADDED WHEN, UH, THE, UH, AGENDA WAS PUBLISHED.
UH, AND SINCE THEN, UH, THE UPDATES, UM, COMMITTEE, UH, WAS CONSULTED AND DECIDED THAT, UH, THERE WERE TOO MANY ISSUES WITH THE ITEMS WE WERE BRINGING UP THAT THEY PREFERRED TO TAKE IT BACK TO THE COMMITTEE.
[02:25:01]
THAT THAT WAS A CONTINU DISCUSSION.WAS THE ABCS CONTINUE ANY DISCUSSION OF REVISIONS TO THE JUNE 18TH MEETING AT 5:30 PM I'M, I'M SORRY.
WE WOULD HAVE THE DISCUSSION AT YEAH.
AND THAT IN ADVANCE WE WOULD'VE SEEN YEAH.
UH, WE WON'T SEE 'EM IN MAY, BUT PERHAPS THE JUNE DESIGN REVIEW.
THE, THE IT'S ON DEAR FOR THE REASONS THE STAT MAY, UH, MATT, MATT, UH, STATED IT CONCERNED, IT CONCERNED THE ABCS, WHICH WAS A VERY COMPLICATED DISCUSSION OF THE DESIGN REVIEW.
WE DECIDED TO TAKE A COMMITTEE AND SIMPLIFY.
WILL WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE NEW ABSOLUTELY.
MATERIAL THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT? WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU'LL SEE WILL BE REVIEWED, SENT OUT IN ADVANCE YEAH.
AND WILL BE DISCUSSED AT A DESIGN REVIEW.
WE DO DO, DO YOU WANT A MOTION OR JUST THERE, THERE'S A MOTION PENDING ON THE FLOOR.
MOVE TO SECOND THAT WE HAVE THAT, THAT WE CONTINUE CHANGE AT THE JUNE MEETING TO JUNE 18TH.
[8.B. Revisions to the Minor Works List]
THE MINOR WORKS LIST.AND SO, UH, WITH THAT ONE, I WAS NOT ABLE TO HAVE TIME TO FINISH THAT FOR THIS MEETING, SO, UM, THAT WILL ALSO HAVE TO BE CONTINUED.
WE NEED A MOTION TO CONTINUE THAT.
WE, UH, CONTINUE THE REVISIONS TO THE MINOR WORK LIST TO THE JUNE MEETING.
THE JUNE DESIGN REVIEW MEETING.
JUNE, THE JUNE DESIGN REVIEW WOULD BE, YEAH, NO, WELL CONSIDERATION, CONSIDERATION AT THE JUNE MEETING.
WELL, BUT IT WILL BE DISCUSSED AT THE DESIGN REVIEW.
IT'LL BE ON THE AGENDA FOR THE JUNE MEETING, BUT DISCUSSED FOR THE JUNE REGULAR MEETING.
[9. HPC ADMINISTRATOR’S REPORT A. Report On Major CoAs Denied (March 7 to April 3): None B. Report on Major CoAs, Extensions, Amendments, and Condition Approvals Issued (March 7 to April 3): 311 Avenue C – demolition and redevelopment with 1-story infill house C. Report on Minor CoAs Issued (March 7 to April 3): 101 Middle St. (Skysail) – limited landscaping 308 Johnson St. – two new mechanical units on a platform 901B Pollock St. – sculpture 711 Pollock St. – new mechanical unit 721 Pollock St. – siding replacement of incongruous material 1219 National Ave. (B St. ROW) – tree replacement About 7 pending D. Other Items and Updates by the Administrator]
ITEMS TO, UH, REPORT? SO, UH, WITH REGARD TO THE COAS, UH, NOTHING UNLESS ANYONE HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY OF THEM.UH, I DO HAVE, UH, THE TWO ITEMS FOR ITEM D THERE.
UH, THE FIRST IS THAT, UH, NEXT FRIDAY IS THE, UH, CLG TRAINING, THE CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT TRAINING FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION, UH, COMMISSIONS AND OTHERS INTERESTED IN HISTORIC PRESERVATION, UH, HERE IN NEW BERN FOR FREE, UH, AT, UM, FROM, SO THAT'S, UH, FRIDAY THE 25TH OF APRIL, I BELIEVE, CORRECT? MM-HMM
AND THAT WILL BE AT THE, UM, MASONIC TEMPLE, ST.
JOHN'S MASONIC TEMPLE ON HANCOCK STREET AND JOHNSON STREET THERE.
UH, AND, UH, THERE IT IS AN ALL DAY WORKSHOP, ESSENTIALLY STARTING AT NINE O'CLOCK AND GOING TILL FOUR 30.
UH, YOU'LL BE ON YOUR OWN FOR LUNCH, UH, FOR ABOUT, UH, GIVEN ABOUT AN HOUR AND 15 MINUTES FOR THAT.
UM, THERE WILL BE VARIOUS TOPICS, UH, SOME WHICH ARE RELATED MOSTLY IN THE MORNING FOR, UH, PLANNING COMMISSIONERS.
I'M NOT PLANNING, SORRY, HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSIONERS.
UH, AND THEN IN THE AFTERNOON IS BOTH FOR PLANNING, UH, FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSIONERS AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
UM, I MEAN, I'M JUST GENERALIZING, UH, ABOUT THE INTERESTS.
THE ONES IN THE AFTERNOON WILL INVOLVE, UH, UH, TAX CREDITS, UH, ARCHITECTURAL HISTORY AND, UH, RESILIENCY, UH, FOR HISTORIC, UH, STRUCTURES, UH, HISTORIC PROPERTIES.
SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT, UM, HAVE BEEN EXPRESSED AS AN INTEREST BY OUR LOCAL, UM, COMMUNITY.
UH, THE, UH, UH, VARIOUS, UH, UH, HISTORIC ORGANIZATIONS IN TOWN ARE INTERESTED IN, UH, THOSE TOPICS.
UH, AND, UM, WE WILL BE HOSTING OUR, UH, NEW BERN WILL BE HOSTING THAT EVENT.
UH, BUT THERE WILL BE MANY, UH, OTHER PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE STATE WHO WILL ALSO BE ATTENDING.
UM, THERE ARE OTHER TRAININGS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE AS WELL, SIMILAR, BUT NOT QUITE THE SAME AS THIS ONE WITH THOSE PARTICULAR TOPICS.
AND, UH, BUT WE EXPECT THAT MOST OF THE ATTENDEES WILL BE FROM AROUND THIS REGION, UM, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T COME TO THIS REGION THAT OFTEN.
UM, SO WE'RE HOPING IF, UH, YOU ALL WOULD ATTEND, THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.
UH, BUT YOU DO NEED TO REGISTER BY TOMORROW.
AND I THINK I'VE SENT EVERYBODY THE LINK AT LEAST TWICE, UM, TO COME TO THAT.
[02:30:01]
APP.ALL THE SESSIONS ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
UH, SO, UH, YOU CAN FEEL FREE TO ATTEND, UH, AND HAVE, YOU KNOW, UH, PARTNERS ALSO ATTEND, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR KIDS AND YOUR
UM, AND, UH, UH, AND OF COURSE, YOU GUYS, UH, BEING COMMISSIONERS.
SO THESE, THIS ALSO COUNTS TOWARDS OUR, UM, CLG, UH, CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT, UM, UH, CERTIFICATION, WHICH, BY THE WAY, UM, TODAY I RECEIVED A LETTER, UH, FROM THEM.
I INCLUDED THAT LETTER IN YOUR EXTRA LITTLE PACKET THERE.
UM, BACK IN, UH, NOVEMBER, DECEMBER, WE, UM, SUBMITTED THIS 10 PAGE, UM, ANNUAL REPORT, UH, TO INDICATE WHAT WE'VE BEEN UP TO AND WHAT WE'VE, UH, ACCOMPLISHED AND WHAT'S HAPPENED, UH, IN OUR AREA.
BUT THE, UH, THE LETTER, WHICH LOOKS LIKE THIS IN YOUR LITTLE PACKET, UM, SPELLS OUT THAT WE PASSED THE TEST,
WE CONTINUE TO BE A CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
AND THE BIG ADVANTAGE OF THAT IS THAT ALL OF OUR, UM, PRIVATE, UH, RESIDENTS, UH, HAVE THE ABILITY OR THE, UH, THE OPPORTUNITY, LET'S SAY, TO USE THE SERVICES OF THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE, UH, AND ESPECIALLY THEIR, UM, THEIR, UH, REGIONAL EXPERTS TO, UH, GIVE YOU ADVICE ON YOUR PARTICULAR HISTORIC PROPERTIES, UM, RANGING FROM WHAT SHOULD I DO WITH MY ROOFING OR MY FOUNDATION, OR IS THIS A, YOU KNOW, A, A HISTORIC, UM, ELEMENT THAT I HAVE HERE? OR IS THIS, YOU KNOW, JUST A RECREATION, ALL THAT, ANY QUESTION YOU HAVE ABOUT YOUR HISTORIC PROPERTY, UM, THEY WILL TRY TO HELP YOU ANSWER THAT.
UM, THEY HAVE BEEN, UH, VERY EXPERTISE IN THEIR, UH, EVALUATIONS AND ADVICE.
UH, AND WE HAVE, IN FACT, THE COMMISSION HAS USED THE ADVICE OF THAT, THAT INDIVIDUAL, UM, MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, UH, FOR ITS PROCEEDINGS.
SO, UM, WHO WE CONSIDER THEM TO BE EXPERTS, WHO WAS THE LEADER FOR THAT IN GREENVILLE.
NOW, WHO IS WHAT, WHO IS THE LEADER WITH THE STATE FOR OUR REGION? WHO DIDN'T WE HIRE A NEW GUY? OH, YES, YES.
UH, THE NEW PERSON, HIS NAME IS CHRIS STONE.
UM, UH, HE'S, UH, BEEN ON THE JOB HERE NOW FOR I THINK ABOUT SIX TO NINE MONTHS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY RUN INTO HIM, UM, UH, I, I CAN SEND YOU ALL THE CONTACT INFORMATION, BUT, UH, UH, HIS CONTACT INFORMATION'S AVAILABLE ON THE, UH, STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION WEBSITE.
UH, AND, UM, UH, HE'S ALREADY PROVEN HIMSELF TO BE QUITE THE EXPERT.
UM, HE, THEY DIDN'T HIRE HIM, UH, BECAUSE THEY HAD NOBODY ELSE.
HE'S OBVIOUSLY A VERY, VERY GOOD, UH, EXPERT IN THE FIELD ALREADY.
UH, DO YOU KNOW ON THAT TRAINING, ON THAT, ON THAT, SORRY.
DO YOU KNOW, ON THAT TRAINING, DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME THE AFTERNOON SESSIONS ARE GONNA START? DO WE GET WORD OUT TO THE PUBLIC? I, YES.
UH, WE, I PROBABLY DO, BUT I HAVE, WAS NOT ABLE TO GET TO THE ACTUAL AGENDA YET.
SO, UM, IF YOU GET A CHANCE, CAN YOU, CAN YOU SEND THAT OUT SO THAT WE CAN SEND IT OUT TO OUR, TO OUR PUBLIC MEMBERS? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
UM, BUT JUST IN GENERAL AFTER LUNCH.
SO I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS LIKE A ONE O'CLOCK, 1 15, 1 30 KIND THING.
UM, AND WE ALSO WILL BE PROVIDING, ESPECIALLY FOR OUR OUT OF TOWN GUESTS, YOU KNOW, MAPS OF PARKING AND RE RESTAURANTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UH, THE OTHER ITEM, LET'S SEE, THERE'S ANOTHER ONE IS, UM, OH, YES, THANK YOU,
UH, I HAVE AN UPDATE ON THE, UH, THE, UH, TERMS AND THE REPLACEMENTS FOR THE VARIOUS, UH, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
TURNS OUT THERE ARE FOUR PEOPLE WHOSE TERMS ARE UP THIS YEAR.
UM, TWO, UM, ARE THEIR SECOND TERM AND TWO ARE THEIR FIRST TERM.
SO, UM, WE HAVE, UH, MOLLY, AND, LET'S SEE, AND TIM THOMPSON, THE TWO OF THEM ARE ON THEIR FIRST TERM, SO THEY'RE JUST LOOKING TO BE, UM,
[02:35:01]
REAPPOINTED IF YOU WANT TO.UM, I'VE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT WHO WITH WHOM THEY NEED TO SPEAK.
UH, AND THEN IT IS, UH, UH, JIM BISBY AND TR B WHOSE TERMS ARE UP.
THE SECOND TERMS ARE UP THIS YEAR, SO THEY MUST STEP DOWN.
UH, AND SO WE WILL BE LOOKING FOR TWO NEW PEOPLE, UM, TO TAKE THEIR PLACE.
UM, IN THE CASE OF JIM, UH, HIS, UH, THE PERSON WHO APPOINTS HIM IS THE WARD THREE ALDERMAN, WHICH WOULD BE MR. ASTOR.
AND THEN, UH, FOR TRIP, UM, IT IS THE MAYOR.
I KNOW THERE'S ONE MORE THING.
I ONLY SAID TWO, BUT THEN I SUDDENLY REALIZED THERE WERE THREE, BUT NOW I CAN'T REMEMBER THE THIRD ONE.
UM, OBVIOUSLY I'LL, IF I NEED TO, I WILL SEND YOU ALL AN EMAIL.
ANYTHING ELSE? JUST A REMINDER FOR FOLKS, THERE WILL NOT BE A MAY.
UH, THE, THERE ARE NO, UH, HPC MEETINGS IN MAY, BOTH THE DESIGN REVIEW AND THE REGULAR MEETING, UH, WERE SCHEDULED ALREADY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, NOT TO OCCUR IN MAY.
UH, SO THE NEXT, UH, TWO MEETINGS ARE IN JUNE.
UH, AND THE REGULAR MEETING IS JUNE 18TH.