* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. READY [I. CALL TO ORDER] [00:00:03] CAUGHT OVER THE JUNE 19TH MEETING OF THE CITY OF NEW BERN PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD. UH, WILL YOU PLEASE JOIN ME FOR THE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF OUR COUNTRY, THE PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH SANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. UH, KENDRICK, CAN I GET A ROLL CALL PLEASE? YES, SIR. MR. CHAIRMAN, UH, STARTING WITH BOARD MEMBER DANIELLE PEOPLES PRESENT BOARD MEMBER KIT FARGO. CAN YOU JUST LET THE RECORD SHOW HE'S ABSENT? CHAIRMAN J BRAD JEFFERSON HERE, VICE CHAIRMAN RUSTY ENGLEY. HERE. BOARD MEMBER KELLY KAISER HERE. BOARD MEMBER THOMAS BROWNELL HERE. AND BOARD MEMBER MARSHALL BOW. YEAH. AND MR. CHAIRMAN, WE DO HAVE A COURT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU KENDRICK. UM, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION [IV. APPROVE AGENDA] ON THE AGENDA. I MOVE REAPPROVE THE AGENDA. I SECOND I HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR TO SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? MOTION KAYS. AGENDA APPROVE. UM, SORRY ABOUT THAT. UM, [V. CHAIRMAN’S REMARKS] CHAIRMAN'S REMARKS TONIGHT, I DON'T HAVE ANY. SO WE'RE [VI.A. 2409 Oaks Road Rezoning] GONNA MOVE ON TO ACTION ITEM. UH, WHAT'S THAT? SIX A, THE 4 0 9 OAKS ROAD REZONING. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. AND GOOD EVENING TO THE BOARD. AND MR. CHAIRMAN, WE'RE GONNA START WITH, UH, OUR ONLY ITEM FOR TONIGHT, AND THAT IS, UH, A PA 0 0 3 0 1 1 20 25. AND THIS IS FOR 24 0 9 OAKS ROAD, UH, REZONE. AND HERE'S THE REQUEST SUMMARY. THE APPLICANT IS ZEN TI AND THE OWNER IS MASSER ALTI. AND THE LOCATION, UH, ONCE MORE IS 24 0 9 OAKS ROAD. THE CURRENT ZONING DISTRICT, UH, IS RESIDENTIAL SIX S OR RS SIX S. THE REQUESTED CHANGE FOR THE, UH, ZONING IS FROM RAS SUCCESS TO COMMERCIAL THREE OR C DASH THREE. AND THE PARCEL IDENTIFICATION NUMBER IS EIGHT DASH 0 1 9 DASH 0 0 8. AND THE SIZE, UH, APPROXIMATELY IS 0.248, UH, TOTAL ACRES AND THE RESIDENTIAL SIX, UH, ZONING DISTRICT ANALYSIS. JUST TO KIND OF GIVE A BRIEF, UM, SUMMARY OF IT, THE RAS SIX S DOES, IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T HAVE A COMPLETELY, UM, A COMPLETE ANALYSIS, EXCUSE ME. SO RAS SIX ESSENTIALLY FILLS ITS PLACE. THE S ESSENTIALLY STANDS FOR, UH, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLINGS THAT CAUSED THAT OUT. SPECIFICALLY, WE TOOK THAT OR AP TO HAVE TAKEN THAT FROM R DASH 10 DESK, WHICH DID HAVE A DISTRICT SUMMARY AND IT MIMICS EXACTLY WHAT THE SAME SIMILAR DIFFERENCES OF RS SUCCESS WOULD SAY IN REGARDS TO HOW TO UNDERSTAND IT. AND IT REVERTS BACK TO RS SIX AS ITS MAIN, UH, COMPONENT. SO THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU, BUT THE RDAS SIX DISTRICT, UH, IS DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE AGAIN, SINGLE, UM, TWO AND MULTIFAMILY DWELLINGS. BUT JUST KEEP IN MIND THAT AS AN S IT'S SPECIFIC TO SINGLE FAMILY. UM, WITH 6,000 SQUARE FEET, THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE AND THIS ESSENTIALLY ENCOURAGES CONTINUED LAND USE OF RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES AND CERTAIN COMPATIBLE NON-RESIDENTIAL, UH, USES. IT'S TO ACTUALLY PROHIBIT COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL USES OF THE LAND. UM, ALSO TO PROHIBIT ANY OTHER USE WHICH WOULD SUBSTANTIALLY INTERFERE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OR CONTINUATION OF RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES IN THE DISTRICT. UH, IT ALSO ENCOURAGES THE DISCONTINUE OF EXISTING USES THAT WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED, UM, AS NEW USES IN THAT DISTRICT. AND LASTLY, UH, TO DISCOURAGE ANY USE, UM, OR EXCUSE ME, ANY, ANY WHICH USE 'CAUSE OF ITS CHARACTER OR SIZE THAT WOULD GENERATE TRAFFIC WILL REQUIRE, UH, MUNICIPAL SERVICES AND COMMERCIAL THREE ZONING DISTRICT ANALYSIS. UH, THE C3 ANALYSIS IS REALLY, UH, THE OPPOSITE. IT'S ALLOWABLE FOR, UM, OFFICES, PERSONAL SERVICES, AND AS WELL AS RETAILING, UM, THINGS TO THOSE COMPONENTS. AND FOR THE CONVENIENCE OF GOODS, UH, THIS DISTRICT GENERALLY, UM, IS, IT'S LOCATED ON THE CITY'S MAJOR RADIAL ROADS. UH, AND 'CAUSE THESE DISTRICTS WILL BE LOCATED ON HIGH VOLUME TRAFFIC ARTERIES AND WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE VIEW, UM, NOT ONLY OF LOCAL RESIDENTS BUT TOURISTS AND OTHER NON-LOCAL MOTORISTS. UM, AMPLE OFF STREET PARKING CONTROL, TRAFFIC MOVEMENT AND AN APPROPRIATE APPEARANCE INCLUDING SUITABLE PLANNING SHALL BE OR IS SUPPOSED TO BE PROVIDED. AND HERE WE HAVE JUST A USES COMPARISON CHART AND I'LL ALLOW FOR YOU TO VIEW THAT. I'M NOT GOING TO GO DOWN EACH INDIVIDUAL USE, BUT THERE'S A COMPARISON FOR UNDERSTANDING. [00:05:02] AND THE FIRST MAP THAT YOU SEE HERE IS THE VICINITY MAP AND IT JUST GIVES THE LOCATION FOR THE PARCEL. AND THAT'S HIGHLIGHTED THAT THE SECOND MAP IS FOLLOWED WITH THE BUFFERING, WHICH IS TAKEN WITHIN A HUNDRED FEET OF THE PROPERTY LINES. AND ANY PROPERTIES THAT ARE WITHIN SET BUFFER SHOULD HAVE BEEN NOTICED AND RECEIVED A LETTER, UH, ABOUT THIS MEETING. THIRD AREA HERE, UH, IT'S ACTUALLY, IT'S THE AERIAL FOR THE PROPERTY, EXCUSE ME. THIRD MAP. UH, IT'S THE AERIAL GIVES YOU THE GROUND VIEW OF WHAT'S WHAT'S THERE. AND OUR FOURTH AND LAST MAP HERE IS THE ZONING MAP TO REFLECT THAT CURRENT R DASH SIX S DESIGNATION ACROSS OR ADJACENT TO THE PROPERTY. YOU HAVE THE C3, UM, DESIGNATION AS FAR AS FOR THE ZONING DISTRICT. AND THE ACTIONS NEEDED AT THIS TIME WOULD BE THE ADOPTION OF THE CONSISTENCY STATEMENT, A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN. BUT IF THE BOARD HAS ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL TRY TO ANSWER THOSE, SOME OF WHICH MAY BE MORE SUITABLE FOR THE APPLICANT, UM, TO EXPLAIN. UH, BUT I'LL TRY TO ANSWER ANY, ANY SURFACE QUESTIONS PERTAINING TO THE PROPERTY OR BOARD HAVE QUESTIONS. DID WE REVIEW THIS ONCE BEFORE? YES. SO I CAN TELL YOU THAT THIS ITEM WAS SCHEDULED FOR FEBRUARY, INCLEMENT WEATHER HAD ACTUALLY MADE US NOT HAVE THAT MEETING. AND THEN IT WAS SCHEDULED AGAIN, UM, FOR THE UPCOMING MEETING IN MARCH. BUT THE APPLICANT, UH, ELECTED TO WITHDRAW AT THAT TIME BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING OUT OF, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS OUT OF THE COUNTRY OR OUT OF THE STATE. SO WE PAUSED IT AND THEN, UH, THIS WAS PICKED BACK UP, I BELIEVE IN MAY. THE APPLICANT CONTACTED ME AND SAID, HEY, CAN WE REINITIATE OUR, UH, APPLICATION? SO THAT WAS PLACED BACK BEFORE YOU FOR THIS, I KNOW I HAD SEEN THE PICTURES BEFORE. YES, SIR. SO YOU ARE CORRECT KENDRICK TO CONFIRM THIS IS IN THE REDEVELOPMENT DISTRICT, RIGHT? YEAH. UH, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT IS. NO. NO. OKAY. I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S IN ANY OVERLAYS, UM, THAT I'M AWARE OF. OKAY. I WOULD HAVE TO DO A DEFINITIVE CHECK ON THAT, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S IN . YEAH, IT SAYS IN YOUR EVALUATION THAT THE 2022 LAND USE PLAN UPDATE DOES NOT SHOW THE PROPERTY TO BE WITHIN THE FOCUS AREA. YEAH. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT. I, I DIDN'T BELIEVE IT WAS, I COULDN'T REMEMBER TO BE HONEST. COURT, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR KENDRICK? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SIR. MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M GONNA GRAB YOU THE SPEAKER. OKAY. UM, WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT, UM, MAKE A BRIEF COMMENT HERE ON PUBLIC COMMENT. IT IS LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES PER SPEAKER. COMMENTS SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THE BOARD AND CITY STAFF AND BE RELEVANT TO THE ACTION ITEM BEING DISCUSSED. GROUPS, ORGANIZATIONS, NEIGHBORHOODS OR SIMILAR ASSOCIATIONS MAY APPOINT ONE SPEAKER PERSON OR PRESENT THEIR POINTS OF VIEW TO THE BOARD. PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A COMMENT PERIOD TO THE BOARD IS NOT TAKING OR RESPONDING TO QUESTIONS DURING THIS. UH, WITH THAT, UM, I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK FOR THREE MINUTES ON THIS ITEM. ALRIGHT, HEARING NONE. UM, IF THE APPLICANT IS HERE, WOULD THEY LIKE TO MAKE SOME REMARKS ON THIS ITEM? HEY. HI. YEAH, SO WE BOUGHT A PROPERTY AND SIR, YOU JUST, IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS. I'M SORRY. IT'S OKAY. MY NAME IS MAD TI UM, MY ADDRESS IS TWO ONE CRESSMAN DRIVE NEWBURG. I'VE BEEN IN NEWBURG SINCE 2000, 2008. SO, UM, YEAH, WE BOUGHT A PROPERTY A COUPLE YEARS AGO AND FROM A, I MEAN FROM OUR UNDERSTANDING IT WAS ALWAYS USED FOR RETAIL. I MEAN, I DID LIKE, UH, MODIFICATION, I ATTACHED, UH, THE FLOOR PLAN. I DON'T DUNNO IF YOU COULD SEE THAT, BUT THAT'S BASICALLY AN OPEN FLOOR PLAN WITH JUST A LITTLE BATHROOM IN THE CORNER. SO THAT WAS BEEN USED FOR RETAIL AND WHEN WE BOUGHT IT, THAT'S WHAT WE BUY UNDER RETAIL ZONING. SO WE BOUGHT IT IN THAT. I MEAN IF, I MEAN FOR US TO REALLY CONVERT TO, TO RESIDENTIAL, PROBABLY COST ABOUT TWO OR THREE DOWN. WE PAY FOR IT BECAUSE IT'S, I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE THE FLOOR PLAN IS PRETTY MUCH FLOOR GO TO BATHROOM ON THE CORNER. SO THAT'S WHY WE REQUESTED TO CHANGE IT, THE COMMERCIAL. 'CAUSE I MEAN, EVEN BEFORE WE BOUGHT IT, IT WAS, IT WAS VACANT, VACANT FOR A COUPLE YEARS AND EVEN AFTER WE BOUGHT IT, WE CAN'T USE IT UNTIL NOW EVEN THOUGH WE BOUGHT ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. SO IT'S BEEN VACANT SINCE. SO I MEAN WE, WE OWNED A COUPLE BUSINESSES ON, WE OWN A BUSINESS ON OAK ROAD AND THEN ONE IN NATIONAL AVENUE AS WELL. SO I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN IN THE COMMUNITY SINCE 2008. THAT'S ONE OF THE ABOUT BUSINESSES. SO WE [00:10:01] TRY TO INVEST MORE IN THE COMMUNITY. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SIR. DOES THE BOARD HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU SIR. UM, WITH THAT I'LL OPEN IT UP TO THE BOARD FOR DISCUSSION. EVERYTHING AROUND THIS LOT, UM, THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY IS, IS IT SINGLE, IS SINGLE FAMILY ON EITHER SIDE, CORRECT? UH, YES MA'AM, THAT IS CORRECT. SO YOU HAVE R DASH SIX S TO THE, UH, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE THE EAST AND WEST. AND THEN TO THE SOUTH OF THE PROPERTY YOU HAVE R DASH, UH, 10 A, UM, AND THEN TO THE NORTH YOU'VE GOT A COMBINATION OF R DASH SIX S AND UH, C3 ACROSS THE STREET. BUT I THINK ONLY, ONLY A COUPLE OF THESE PARCELS ON THIS SIDE ARE ACTUALLY COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES. I THINK SINGLE VACANT OR FROM WHAT I SAW PICTURES ORIGINALLY IT WAS THREE MONTHS AGO. SO TO SEE WHAT WAS THERE. THERE'S . I MEAN IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE'S A LOT OF R SIX OR A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL ON THAT SIDE OF THE STREET AND EVERYTHING AROUND IT IS RESIDENTIAL. I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THE APPLICANT'S STATEMENT THAT THERE WAS RETAIL THERE BEFORE, BUT MAYBE IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. I I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY, UM, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF RETAIL, OR I'M SORRY, COMMERCIAL OR RESIDENTIAL AROUND THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF PROPERTY, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S SOME COMMERCIAL ACROSS THE STREET AND THAT COMMERCIAL WAS NOT REALLY BUILT. IT'S NOT REALLY RETAIL FROM WHAT I SAW OF THE PICTURES ORIGINALLY. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE HOW THE RESIDENTS ARE GONNA FEEL ABOUT THIS AROUND IT. UM, SO THAT WOULD BE MY COMMENT TO THE BOARD. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? NOT, NOT THAT I HAVE, UM, CONTEXT AROUND THIS, BUT IT DOES SEEM LIKE THAT AREA WOULD'VE BEEN SUBJECT TO SOME PRETTY EXTREME IMPACTS FROM HURRICANE FLORENCE. AND SO PERHAPS THERE'S SOME REVITALIZATION CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT. AND IF THERE'S OTHER PROPERTIES OVER THERE THAT HAVE BEEN DAMAGED OR THAT HAVE REMAINED VACANT SINCE FLORENCE, IS THIS A GOOD THING IN THIS COMMUNITY TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO'S WANTING TO INVEST AND HAVE SOMETHING GOING ON, UM, IN THAT VICINITY? AND IT'S KIND OF ONE OF THOSE, LIKE SO MANY OF THESE THAT WE EVALUATE WHERE IT'S EASY TO KIND OF ARGUE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. YOU'VE GOT COMMERCIAL RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET, REALLY DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT RESIDENTIAL ABUTTING ALL THE OTHER AREAS. SO IT'S, IT'S NOT A COMPLETE OUTLIER TO CONSIDER A COMMERCIAL USE. I, I GUESS FOR ME, WE, WE DO A LOT OF CONSIDERATION ABOUT BUSINESSES AND ESTABLISHING MORE AND MORE BUSINESSES IN NEW AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND NOT FOR ANYTHING, BUT I GUESS I KIND OF FALL MORE ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE AND CARE. I, I I THINK MORE ABOUT WHAT ARE THE RESIDENTS, WHAT ARE THE RESIDENTS GONNA THINK OF US APPROVING SOME BUSINESS GOING IN THERE. AND THE OTHER THING IS, IS THAT MR. ARATI IS GONNA OPEN, POTENTIALLY OPEN THE BUSINESS IN THIS SPACE, BUT THAT BUSINESS MAY GET TURNED OVER TO SOME OTHER BUSINESS WHICH WOULDN'T BE CONDUCIVE TO THE, I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN EVEN IN THE FUTURE. AND WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT MR. AGAROT IS GONNA OPEN AND IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. UM, IT DOESN'T MATTER. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I GUESS I THINK MORE ABOUT THE RESIDENCE AND WHAT THE IMPACT IS GONNA BE ON THEM. SO I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN IS THERE POTENTIAL COMMERCIAL THERE THAT COULD BE GOOD. YEP. BUT THERE'S A LOT OF RESIDENTS AROUND IT TOO, SO I DON'T KNOW. WELL, NOTIFIED RESIDENTS AREN'T HERE TO SPEAK ONE WAY OR DOCTOR. SO I THINK THAT'S A, FOR US, THERE'S ONE, ONE RESIDENT, I THINK ON ONE SIDE AND ONE RESIDENT. I THINK ON THE OTHER SIDE WE NOTIFIED NONE THE OTHER ONES ON THAT STRIP. SO CAN YOU FLIP BACK TO THAT KENDRICK? THAT WHERE THE, OKAY. ONE ON ONE SIDE, TWO ON THE OTHER. THEN YOU GOT THE COMMERCIALS ON THE DOWNSIDE, RIGHT, MR. CHAIR TO YES. TO BE HELPFUL. MR. INGRAM RAISES A, A VERY IMPORTANT POINT. THE A THIS PARTICULAR APPLICANT'S EXPRESSIONS [00:15:01] ABOUT WHAT HIS INTENDED USE MIGHT BE ARE NOT RELEVANT FOR YOUR CONSIDERATIONS TODAY. WHAT IS MOST RELEVANT ARE ALL OF THE PERMISSIBLE USES IN THE RESPECTIVE ZONING DISTRICTS? SO I THINK KENDRICK OUTLINED IN THE CURRENT R SIX ZONING DISTRICT, R SIX S ZONING DISTRICT, SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED IS THE ONLY USES PERMITTED. WHEREAS IN A C3 COMMERCIAL USE, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF USES THAT WOULD BE PERMITTED BY WRIGHT AND SOME ADDITIONAL USES THAT WOULD BE PERMITTED BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT. AND WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT REASONABLENESS, WE WANT TO CONSIDER ALL OF THE POSSIBLE USES THAT COULD COME WITH THE PROPOSED ON CLASSIFICATION. WOULD THE APPLICANT HAVE THE OPTION TO GET A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO OPEN HIS BUSINESS AND KEEP IT OUR SUCCESS? THE, IS THAT AN OPTION? UH, IT COULD RAISE A POTENTIAL FOR BEING AN OPTION, BUT IT DEPENDS ON WHAT USE WOULD BE THERE. AND UNFORTUNATELY WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO KNOW RIGHT. WHAT THAT EXACT USE IS. RIGHT. UM, SO DEPENDENT ON THE USE IS WHAT I WOULD'VE TO SAY MR. CHAIRMAN, IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU WOULD HAVE THAT AVAILABILITY. IF IT'S A USE THAT'S NOT ALLOWED, HE JUST WON'T BE ABLE TO TO DO IT. RIGHT. UM, BUT OF COURSE IF HE, IF IT HAS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, ABSOLUTELY WE WOULD AFFORD HIM THAT OPPORTUNITY. AND REFRESH MY MEMORY, THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT GOES WITH PROPERTY OR GOES WITH THE THAT'S CORRECT. WITH THE PROPERTY, YES, SIR. JEREMY. OKAY. BOARD HAVE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS SIDE? UM, ALL I WOULD ADD, WHICH ISN'T MUCH. UM, THERE ARE OTHER AREAS IN THE DOWNTOWN AND OTHER AREAS OUTSIDE OF THERE THAT DO HAVE BUSINESSES WITHIN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. UM, SO I I DANIELLE'S GOT A POINT THERE AND RUSTY HAS A POINT THERE. UM, UH, YOU COULD SEE IT BOTH WAYS. UH, YOU ULTIMATELY THE BOARD OF ALTMAN DON'T HAVE TO MAKE, MAKE THE CALL. THIS IS OUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD OF ALTMAN. UM, THAT'S MY, MY THOUGHTS ON IT BOARD, HAVE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION ON THIS ITEM. I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS REZONING REQUEST TO THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN. I A MOTION? DO I HEAR A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND FURTHER, JUST TO BE CLEAR, MR. MR. CHAIR, THE MOTION TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS ITEM ALSO INCLUDES ADOPTION OF A CONSISTENCY STATEMENT? YES. OKAY. IS THAT THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERSON MAKING THE SECOND? YES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. JAMIE HAS CORRECTED US AS SHE DOES OFTEN AND VERY WELL, AND WE APPRECIATE IT. THANK, UM, GIVEN HAVING SAID THAT, IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? UM, HEARING NONE. AND SINCE WE HAVE AN EVEN NUMBER, I UNFORTUNATELY FEEL, I THINK WE NEED TO CALL FOR A ROLL CALL VOTE. NOT A PROBLEM. MR. CHAIRMAN, I'LL, I'LL, UH, I'LL DO THAT FOR YOU. THE, AND I'M GONNA START WITH BOARD MEMBER DANIELLE PEOPLES? YES. OKAY. AND CHAIRMAN BRAD JEFFERSON? YES. VICE CHAIRMAN RUY ANGER? NO. BOARD MEMBER KELLY KAISER? YES. BOARD MEMBER THOMAS BROWNELL? NO. AND BOARD MEMBER MARSHALL BOWER? NO. OKAY. ALRIGHT, MR. CHAIRMAN, WE HAVE THREE, TWO, UH, THREE VOTES. NO. OR EXCUSE ME, WE HAVE 3 3, 3, 3. EXCUSE ME, I APOLOGIZE. SO IT WAS TIED. MOTION FAILS. I SAID A MOTION THAT FAILED DUE TO TIME. I'LL ENTERTAIN ANOTHER MOTION ON THIS ITEM. I HAVE A FEELING IF WE MADE A, UH, MOTION IN THE NEGATIVE AND IT WAS SECONDED THAT WE WOULD POTENTIALLY HAVE THE SAME VOTING ISSUE. WE WOULD. I THINK SO. . SO IS IT BEST TO TABLE? I MEAN, I MEAN, UNLESS THERE'S SOME TYPE OF DISCUSSION THAT WOULD CHANGE SOMEONE'S OPINION, UNFORTUNATELY WHEN WE HAVE AN EVEN MEMBER, UM, THERE IS NO, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, UNLESS THERE'S SOME DEFER FURTHER DISCUSSION THAT WE CAN [00:20:01] HAVE, UM, THAT WOULD CHANGE ANYONE'S OPINION. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS THE CASE. I'M OPEN TO IT. UM, I I JUST FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, AS, AS I SAID, THERE'S OTHER AREAS IN THIS, IN THE CITY, I FIND IT HARD TO ARGUE THAT IT'S INCONSISTENT THAT THERE, SINCE THERE ARE OTHER AREAS IN THE CITY WHERE THERE ARE RESIDENTIAL AREAS WITH THIS TYPE OF THING. AND I COULD ALSO MAKE THE SAME ARGUMENT THAT OTHERS HAVE MADE THAT, YOU KNOW, I I MEAN I I I COULD, I COULD I SEE IT BOTH WAYS. UM, THAT'S FAIR. THAT'S, THAT'S IN THE CASE THOUGH WHERE THERE ARE BUSINESSES IN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS AND OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY. IS THAT SPECIFICALLY BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT OR ARE THOSE THERE AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE THERE? OH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I THINK THAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I ALWAYS COME BACK TO. I MEAN, IF IT'S SPECIAL USE PERMIT, GREAT. UM, BUT IF IT SHOULDN'T BE THERE THEN YOU KNOW, MAYBE, AND I KNOW WE TALK ABOUT ENFORCEMENT ALL THE TIME, BUT NO, I'M NOT, SOME PEOPLE DO, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF IT MAY HELP. UH, MR. RUSTY, I'LL TRY TO COMMENT ON THAT. 'CAUSE I'VE KIND OF DEALT WITH SEVERAL SITUATIONS. THERE'S A COMBINATION OF A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING. THERE ARE SOME BUSINESSES THAT ARE OPERATING ON WHO KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THOSE MAY BE. UH, THEY WERE PERMITTED OR NOT, EXCUSE ME, I SHOULDN'T SAY PERMANENT. THEY MAY HAVE JUST BEEN ESTABLISHED, BUT ONCE UPON A TIME, NOT EXACTLY CERTAIN. THEY WERE OTHER BUSINESSES THAT WERE ESTABLISHED BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND YOU HAVE OTHER BUSINESSES THAT ARE JUST PERMITTED BY. RIGHT. SO IT'S KIND OF A COMBINATION THEREOF. IF, IF YOU'LL GOT IT. MAKES SENSE. SO EVEN THAT'S DIFFICULT. IT'S NOT, THAT'S ALSO NOT BLACK AND WHITE. IT'S CORRECT. YES. UM, I WOULD SAY, WELL, LEMME ASK THE QUESTION. WHAT IS THE APPLICANT'S OPTIONS IF WE DECIDE TO TABLE IT OR WHATEVER? IS THERE A TIMEFRAME OR I, WHAT ARE HIS OPTIONS? I WOULD, IF YOU'RE GONNA TABLE THE MATTER HAS TO BE TO A DATE CERTAIN MM-HMM . AND BASICALLY, I GUESS WE WOULD COME BACK AND HOPE TO HAVE AT LEAST A SEVENTH PERSON TO MM-HMM . BREAK THE TIE. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD UNDERSTAND. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF MS. JAMIE HAS ANYTHING ADDITIONAL TO ADD. I, I DO. UM, IN, IN THE LAND USE ORDINANCE, YOU ALL HAVE 45 DAYS TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. IF YOU DON'T MAKE A RECOMMENDATION WITHIN THAT 45 DAY WINDOW, THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN CAN CHOOSE TO ACT WITHOUT YOUR RECOMMENDATION. IN MY EXPERIENCE, THE BOARD VERY MUCH APPRECIATES ANY FEEDBACK THAT YOU ALL CAN OFFER. UM, SO IF YOU THINK THAT THERE'S A LIKELIHOOD THAT, UM, MORE PARTICIPATION FROM YOUR FELLOW BOARD MEMBERS MIGHT ENABLE YOU TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, I THINK THERE'S SOME VALUE IN THAT. CAN THE BOARD OF OTTOMAN ACT WITHIN THE 45 DAYS OR ARE WE ON THE CLOCK? 45 DAYS. SECTION 15, 3 98 SAYS THAT IF NO WRITTEN REPORT IS RECEIVED FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, WITHIN 45 DAYS OF REFERRAL OF THE AMENDMENT TO THAT BOARD, BOARD MAY ACT ON THE AMENDMENT WITHOUT THE RECOMMENDATION. SO I MAKE A MOTION, WE TABLE THIS TO THE NEXT MEETING AND THE, UH, NEXT MEETING DATE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, IS JULY 17TH, 2025. SO MY POST, JUST, JUST TO POINT ON THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THIS WAS ON OUR AGENDA ORIGINALLY IN FEBRUARY, CANCELED DUE TO WEATHER, THEN THE APPLICANT WAS OUT OF TOWN. I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA MAKE THIS AS DIFFICULT, A MORE DIFFICULT PROCESS FOR THE APPLICANT. AND I WANT VERN TO BE A PLACE WHERE IT FEELS LIKE IT'S, UM, PRODUCTIVE TO DO BUSINESS. AND I'LL JUST, I'LL REITERATE MY, MY OPINION ON THIS IS THAT, UM, BECAUSE THERE'S COMMERCIAL AND THERE'S RESIDENTIAL NEARBY, EITHER USE FEELS CONSISTENT TO ME. AND IF THIS APPLICANT HAS HAD THIS PROPERTY FOR TWO YEARS IS WANTING TO MAKE A INVESTMENT IN RETAIL, THAT'S MUCH BETTER THAN A VACANT PROPERTY THAT'S NOT BEING USED. UM, I DO APPRECIATE THAT THERE'S LONG-TERM CONSIDERATIONS FOR US TO THINK ABOUT. UH, AND IF THIS WAS THE ONLY COMMERCIAL PARCEL IN THIS FULL MAP THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT, I WOULD FEEL VERY DIFFERENTLY. BUT I, I THINK WE, UM, I THINK WE OUGHT TO CONSIDER APPROVING THIS TONIGHT TO BE COURTEOUS TO THE APPLICANT. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IF WE, IF WE COME BACK AND PICK THIS BACK UP, ARE WE GONNA HAVE, ARE WE GONNA REPEAT THE SAME CONVERSATION MAYBE WITH JUST AN EXTRA PERSON? UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US COME TO A DECISION TONIGHT. THANK YOU, DANIELLE. UNFORTUNATELY, I HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE. SO I HAVE A MOTION FOR TABLING IT. AND THE MOTION TO TABLE IS TO THE JULY 17TH MEETING AT FIVE 30 IN THE CITY HALL COURTROOM. CORRECT. SO I HAVE A MOTION TO, TO TABLE TO THE 17TH. I HAVE A AND I HAVE A SECOND. IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION THAT I, ALRIGHT, [00:25:02] ANY NOTE, UH, I'LL CALL FOR A ROLL, ROLL CALL. VOTE AGAIN. STAY CONSISTENT. YES, SIR. MR. CHAIRMAN, UH, I'M GONNA START WITH BOARD MEMBER DANIELLE PEOPLES NO THANK YOU. AND CHAIRMAN BRAD JEFFERSON. NO. VICE CHAIRMAN. RUSTY ENGLAND. YES. AND THEN, UH, BOARD MEMBER KELLY KAISER NONE. BOARD MEMBER THOMAS BRUNO. YES. AND THEN BOARD MEMBER MARSHA BA. YES. SO WE HAVE A TIE ONCE AGAIN, MR. BROWN, AGAIN. NOW I DON'T HAVE THE BOARD HOLD. OKAY. SO GIVEN THAT, UM, I, I'LL PREFACE THIS. UM, ACCORDING TO PROCEDURE, I SHOULD HAVE CUT YOU OFF 'CAUSE THERE WAS A MOTION ON THE TABLE, BUT I WANTED YOU TO SPEAK AND SO THAT, THAT'S MY FAULT. BUT ANYWAY, I WANTED YOU TO SPEAK. SO GIVEN, GIVEN THAT, UM, I AGREE WITH DANIEL ON WHAT SHE SAID, HOWEVER, UM, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT. I, WHAT DO I WANT? GO HERE? UM, I, OKAY. YOU ARE RIGHT. I DO WANT EVERYONE TO, TO BE A WELCOMING PLACE AND HAVE SOME TRANSITION SPACES AND ALL THE THINGS. UM, GIVEN ALL THAT, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE SIX OF US HERE ARE GONNA BE ABLE TO COME TO A, A DIFFERENT OUTCOME THAN WHAT WE ARE. UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO, I WANTED TO MAKE THAT COMMENT. UM, AND I VOTED THE WAY I DID, UM, BECAUSE OF IT, BECAUSE I, I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WHAT YOU SAID. UM, AND SO WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO THE DISCUSSIONS. THE BOARD. I, I, I DON'T WANT TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT I DON'T WANT NIN TO BE A WELCOMING PLACE FOR BUSINESS. AND IF I, IF I, AND I WASN'T SUGGESTING THAT FAIR ENOUGH. I I WASN'T ABLE AND I WASN'T SUGGESTING THAT ANYONE SUGGESTED THAT I SAID THAT. HOWEVER, BECAUSE I VOTED IN THE NEGATIVE, I WANT NEWBURN TO BE AN APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR BUSINESS AS WELL. THE ISSUE IS, IS APPROPRIATE WHERE, FAIR ENOUGH. AND YOU KNOW, I'VE HAD, WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS BEFORE. I THINK YOU CAME ON THE BOARD ABOUT OTHER THINGS LIKE PARKING AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT COULD AFFECT RESIDENTIAL JUST OUTSIDE OF COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS. AND I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE FOLKS LIKE MYSELF HAVE INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY IN THESE HISTORIC HOMES AND IN, IN THE PROPERTIES THAT WE HAVE. AND FOR US TO LOSE CONTROL OF WHAT HAPPENS AROUND US, UM, AND IT BECOME MUCH MORE COMMERCIAL AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THEN THAT'S AN ISSUE. AND WHILE YOU MAY BE ENCOURAGING BUSINESSES TO COME, YOU'RE GOING TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BUY HOMES AND THINGS LIKE THAT HERE. 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT SURE WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN AND WHERE BUSINESSES ARE GONNA POP UP. SO THERE HAS TO BE WELCOMING OF BUSINESS, BUT IN THE RIGHT WAY. AND IF, IF HURRICANE FLORENCE WAS SUCH AN IMPACT ON BOOKS ROAD, WHICH I KNOW IT WAS, AND MANY PROPERTIES HAVE STILL NOT BEEN RENOVATED AND FIXED UP AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND THE CITY SHOULD DO SOMETHING TO MAKE THAT PART OF THE REDEVELOPMENT AREA AND THAT WOULD MAKE THIS A WHOLE LOT EASIER. BUT IT HASN'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THE APPLICANT THOUGH. IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR US. THIS FEELS LIKE A LONG TIMELINE CONSIDERING WHAT'S BEING REQUESTED. BUT, BUT MY POINT IS, FLORENCE WAS IN 2018 AND THEY'VE KNOWN FOR MANY YEARS THAT THAT AREA HAS NOT BEEN, THERE'S NOT BEEN AS MUCH MONEY PUT INTO THAT AREA AS OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY, LET'S JUST SAY THAT. YEAH, FAIR ENOUGH. AND SO IF THEY FELT LIKE THAT WAS AN AREA THAT REALLY NEEDED TO BE BROUGHT UP AND BUILT UP, THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT. SO NOW WE'RE, WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE IT'S NOT IN A REDEVELOPMENT. AND TO ME THERE'S A LOT OF HOMES AROUND IT. I MEAN, I FEEL FOR MR. AL WHO'S ALREADY PURCHASED THIS PROPERTY, BUT IT WAS OUR SUCCESS WHEN HE PURCHASED IT. I DUNNO WHAT TO DO. SO I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I WANT IT TO BE WELCOMING FOR BUSINESS TOO. BUT I ALSO LOOK AT THE TYPE OF BUSINESS AND THE TYPE OF BUSINESS THAT COULD GO IN. THERE COULD BE ANYTHING. AND THE BUSINESSES AROUND IT, UM, ARE NOT A RETAIL BUSINESS OR THOSE TYPES OF BUSINESSES THAT CREATE THAT KIND OF TRAFFIC. SO I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S CONGRUOUS WITH THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THAT'S MY OPINION. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HAVING A PROPERTY THAT, AND I DON'T WANNA HAVE A LONG DISCUSSION ON THIS, BUT BECAUSE I MEAN, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS PROPERTY, BUT SURE. IT'S BEEN UNUSED FOR WHAT THE GENTLEMAN SAID TWO YEARS. IT COULD HAVE BEEN LONGER, I DON'T KNOW. COULD HAVE BEEN. UM, I THINK IT'S BETTER THAT SOMEBODY USE IT AND THAT BE DEVELOPED IN SOME WAY THAN TO BE LIVING NEXT TO WHAT COULD BE A ANYTHING COULD JUST BE A VACANT PROPERTY, BE A VACANT, [00:30:01] ANYTHING. I MEAN, I, I DON'T LIVE THERE. AND SO I UNDERSTAND IF I LIVED THERE, I WOULDN'T BE HAPPY ABOUT IT. EITHER I OR I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD BE UNHAPPY ABOUT IT. I I DON'T KNOW HOW I WOULD, I DON'T HAVE, I'M NOT IN THAT SITUATION. BUT AGAIN, THE PEOPLE WHO WERE NOTICED AREN'T HERE TO MAKE COMMENT. AND I THINK THAT'S, I HOPE THAT THEY DO WHEN IT GOES TO THE BOARD OF ALL OF 'EM, BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES REALLY MAKING THE DECISION. WELL, THREE OF 15 PROPERTIES ARE PAID. FOUR, THE, THE 15 PROPERTIES WERE NOTICED. RIGHT. I CAN SEE AROUND IT. RIGHT. AND YOU'RE RIGHT. NOBODY'S HERE. I GET YOU. I GET COMMENT. BUT THAT TO ME, THAT DOESN'T STATE, JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT HERE DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T CARE. THEY DON'T CARE THAT WE SHOULD SAY THEY DON'T CARE. RIGHT. SO WE'RE GONNA VOTE FOR THE APPLICANT WHO IS HERE. FAIR ENOUGH. I I I COMPLETELY AGREE. I I ALSO, UM, YOU ARE A HUNDRED. YOU'RE . THERE'S SO BIG. YOU ARE RIGHT IN YOUR ARGUMENTS AND SAYING THAT. AND, AND I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE DOWNTOWN THAT THAT HAVE, YOU'RE RIGHT, I GET IT. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK LITTLE BUSINESSES LIKE THE PENNEX AND OTHERS DOWNTOWN GIVE A LITTLE FLARE THAT ARE GOOD TO BE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT IF I LIVED IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, MAYBE NOT THEIR NEIGHBOR, BUT IF I LIVED IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, I, I KNOW WHERE YOU WERE GOING WITH THAT. YOU KNOW, THEN, THEN, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THAT, SOME OF THAT IS GOOD. AND YOU HAVE THAT IN OTHER TOWNS AND OTHER CITIES. SURE. AND NEWBURN AND OUR NEWBURN POPULATION HAS A REALLY WANTS TO KEEP, THEY DON'T WANT A LOT OF CHANGE. AND I GET IT. UM, BUT SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA GROW AS WELL. SO LIKE I SAID, THERE YOU CAN MAKE ARGUMENTS EITHER WAY. NO CHANGE IS BAD. THERE'S NO GROWTH, THERE'S NO DEVELOPMENT THAT'S, THAT'S BAD. GOOD FOR THE CITY. FAIR ENOUGH. 'CAUSE THE CITY WILL DIE. YES. A HUNDRED PERCENT IN MY OPINION. YEAH. IT, IT MAY NOT BE TRUTHFUL. I, I AGREE. MR. CHICK. SORRY, I'M SORRY. NO, NO, PLEASE. THERE'S SOME NUANCE IN THE COMMENT THAT YOU JUST MADE ABOUT, UM, BUSINESSES, ESPECIALLY RESTAURANTS AND THINGS IN WHAT LOOK LIKE RESIDENTIAL AREAS. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT AS YOU DRIVE DOWN THE STREET, THE STREETSCAPE, YOU MAY NOT BE LOOKING AT AN OVERLAY OF OUR ZONING MAP. MM-HMM . SO THERE ARE AREAS THAT MAY BE ZONED C FOUR, WHICH IS NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESS. MM-HMM . WHICH ALLOWS FOR SOME BUSINESS USES AS WELL AS RESIDENTIAL USES AND HAS SOME PARAMETERS BUILT IN TO TRY TO BALANCE THE POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE EXTERNALITIES THAT COME OUT OF THOSE RESPECTIVE USES. UM, THAT PROPOSAL IS NOT BEFORE US TODAY. CORRECT. SO WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT WE'RE ANALOGIZING THIS CIRCUMSTANCE TO OTHER AREAS IN THE CITY, LET'S JUST BEAR IN MIND THAT WHAT MAY LOOK RESIDENTIAL MAY ACT THAT HAS A BUSINESS NEARBY MAY ACTUALLY BE ZONED IN A COMMERCIAL MANNER. AND TO THAT POINT, FAIR, IF WE WERE TO TABLE THIS ITEM UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING, WOULD IT BE WORTHWHILE FOR CITY STAFF TO CONTINUE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. ALVAR ABOUT A WAY TO ACCOMMODATE WHAT HE WANTS TO DO IN A DIFFERENT WAY? DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? I I SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THAT, MR. RUSTY. UM, AND JUST IN REFERENCE TO TRYING TO WORK WITH THE APPLICANT, UM, WE'VE DISCLOSED, AND I CAN, I CAN REALLY SAY I HAVE DISCLOSED AS MUCH INFORMATION AS I CAN. UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT USE, UH, IS PARTICULAR TO WHAT THE APPLICANT WANTS, HOWEVER, I'M ASSUMING IT'S OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S ALLOWED IN RDA SUCCESS BASED ON THE REZONING REQUEST. SO BASICALLY MY STOPPING GAP IS, IS HERE. UM, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT MY, MY POINT WAS MORE TO, TO THE, THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY'S POINT, WHICH IS IF C FOUR MIGHT BE A BETTER DESIGNATION, IS THERE A CONVERSATION THAT COULD BE HAD WITH THE APPLICANT THAT SAYS, WELL MAYBE THIS IS BETTER BECAUSE IT, IT CUTS DOWN THE AMOUNT OF BIG BUSINESS THAT COULD GO IN THAT SPACE. IT KEEPS IT RESIDENTIAL, I DUNNO. CERTAINLY THE APPLICANT IS HERE MM-HMM . AND HE'S HEARING YOUR COMMENTS. UM, AND IF THERE IS AN INCLINATION FROM A MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD TO TABLE, YOU KNOW, THIS ITEM INTO THE NEXT MEETING, HE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REFLECT ON YOUR COMMENTS AND DETERMINE IF HE HAS ANY APPETITE TO AMEND HIS APPLICATION OR NOT. OR NOT. UM, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO, HE CERTAINLY CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH WHAT HE HAS PROPOSED. UM, BUT THAT IT WOULD GIVE HIM AN OPPORTUNITY TO REFLECT ON YOUR COMMENTS IF HE HAS ANY DESIRE. I, UH, I, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING JAMIE JUST SAID AND I WOULD HOPE THE APPLICANT WOULD TAKE THIS DISCUSSION AND UNDERSTAND THAT THE BOARD OF OTTOMAN IS GONNA HAVE A SIMILAR DISCUSSION WITH SIMILAR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS AND THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ACTUALLY GET THE GET TO REALLY DECIDE. UM, HAVING SAID ALL THAT, IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? AND IF THERE ISN'T, I'LL ENTERTAIN ANY MOTION ON THIS ITEM THAT THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO PUT FORTH, INCLUDING ONE TO TABLE OR TO PASS THAT. [00:35:01] YEAH, I'LL GO BACK TO MY, UH, PREVIOUS MOTION. I MOVE THAT WE TABLE THIS ITEM TO THE NEXT MEETING TO ALLOW MORE TIME FOR THE APPLICANT, THE CITY STAFF TO DISCUSS. IS THERE MAYBE A BETTER WAY TO DO THIS OR A DIFFERENT WAY? MAYBE NOT A BETTER WAY, A DIFFERENT WAY. THE JULY 17TH MEETING TO THE JULY 17TH MEETING HERE. THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MEETING HERE. UM, AND UH, WAIT, AND, AND MAYBE THEN WE HAVE A SEVENTH MEMBER THAT CAN BREAK THE DEADLINE OR SOMEONE HAS A CHANGE OF HEART OR THAT'S FIVE. FAIR ENOUGH. OR SOMEONE HAS A CHANGE OF HEART. A HUNDRED PERCENT. ALRIGHT, I HAVE A MOTION. CAN I HEAR A SECOND? I HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ANY, NONE. I'LL CALL AGAIN FOR A ROLL CALL VOTE. YES SIR. CHAIRMAN, I'M GONNA START WITH BOARD MEMBER, UH, DANIEL BES. YES. AND THEN CHAIRMAN BRAD JEFFERSON. YES. VICE CHAIRMAN. RUSTY? YES. BOARD MEMBER KELLY KAISER? YES. BOARD MEMBER THOMAS BRUNO? YES. AND BOARD MEMBER MARCH BOW? YES. AND MR. CHAIRMAN, WE HAVE A HUMAN UNANIMOUS VOTE. OKAY. MOTION PASSES. ALL RIGHT. UM, ON TO NEW BUSINESS. UM, IS THERE ANY NEW BUSINESS THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP? THERE IS NO NEW EPI. HE'S GOT A SLIDE AND EVERYTHING. I LOVE IT. UM, . UM, NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF. MR. CHAIRMAN. , FEEL FREE. I JUST PUT THAT IN THERE AS A FAIR IS ALWAYS PREPARED. THE GUYS ON IT. I'VE SAID IT. I'LL I TELL ANYBODY THAT'LL LISTEN TO ME. THE GUYS ON, UM, [VIII.STAFF COMMENTS] STAFF COMMENTS. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ADDITIONAL. UM, WELL ACTUALLY WHILE I'M THINKING ABOUT IT, WE HAVE RECEIVED TWO REZONINGS, WHICH WILL BE ON FOR THE NEXT MEETING AS WELL WITH A POTENTIAL, ACTUALLY, EXCUSE ME. NO, TOTAL OF FOUR. YEAH. INCLUDING, EXCUSE ME, THREE REZONINGS AND ONE INITIAL ONE. THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU. UM, SO YEAH, YOU'LL HAVE FOUR ITEMS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE SEEING. UH, AND AS YOU'RE AWARE OF THE SUBDIVISION, UH, THOSE ARE POOLED AND THEY'RE ADMINISTRATIVE NOW, SO YOU WON'T BE SEEING THOSE ANY LONGER JUST TO REITERATE. BUT SO FOUR ITEMS IS WHAT'S INSPECTED FOR THE NEXT MEETING. SO I'LL BE TRYING TO GET THAT INFORMATION OUT TO YOU GUYS. OKAY, THANKS KENDRICK. UM, [IX. PUBLIC COMMENT] AND OF THAT I WILL OPEN IT UP TO PUBLIC COMMENT. REMEMBER THE SAME RULES APPLY FROM EARLIER THREE MINUTES, DIRECTED COMMENTS TO THE BOARD, UM, THOSE TYPE OF THINGS. SO I BELIEVE MR. BARRY, AND I'M NOT GONNA TRY YOUR LAST NAME AGAIN. I BUTCHERED IT LAST TIME. , UH, YOU HAVE, UH, THREE MINUTES. THANK YOU, SIR. YES. UH, THANK YOU. UH, STILL HERE ASKING FOR SOME TYPE OF HELP WITH MY, UH, HOUSING DEVELOPMENT PLANS IN THE RDC. UH, I GAVE INFORMATION TO KENDRICK THAT I THINK HE SHARED WITH Y'ALL. UH, I AM TRYING TO SOLVE AN ACCESS ISSUE SO I CAN SUBDIVIDE MY LOTS TO PUT MORE TINY HOMES ON THEM TO MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT FOR ME AND MAKE MORE HOUSING FOR PEOPLE. UM, REALLY JUST TRYING TO SEE IF Y'ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME AND GO FROM THERE. SO I WASN'T HERE AT THE LAST MEETING, UM, BUT I DID WATCH THE VIDEO AND THAT WAS VERY ENTERTAINING. UM, I I WOULD, THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, ARE YOU PLANNING TO SELL EACH OF THESE UNITS INDIVIDUALLY OR ARE YOU PLANNING TO RENT THEM OUT TO PEOPLE? UH, MY PLAN IS TO RENT 'EM. OKAY. 'CAUSE I HEARD YOU SAY THAT IN YOUR COMMENTS IN THE, IN THE RECORDED MEETING AND I WASN'T SURE, 'CAUSE I KNOW WE'VE, WE'VE HAD, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OTHER ITEMS WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO SUBDIVIDE THINGS AND THEN SELL OFF THE PIECES, BUT YOU'RE JUST LOOKING TO PUT MULTIPLE UNITS ON ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY NOW, IS IT, AND, AND I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME, KENDRICK. THIS IS BASICALLY, SINCE IT'S RENTAL UNITS, IT'S NOT COVERED UNDER THE EXISTING ZONING. SO AS FAR AS FOR WITH WHAT MR. BERRY'S TRYING TO DO, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT TRYING TO PUT MULTIPLE STRUCTURES ON ONE PROPERTY, IT TRANSITIONS THE USE TO FROM SINGLE FAMILY DETEST TO MULTI-FAMILY. RIGHT. IF THE ZONING DISTRICT ALLOWS FOR IT, I RIGHT. THEN WE WORK TO PROCESS IT THAT WAY. BUT IF IT DOES NOT, IF IT'S A SPECIAL USE PERMIT HAS TO BE PROCESSED THAT WAY, OR IF IT'S NOT ALLOWED, THEN THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE APPROACH THAT WE TAKE. UM, TRYING TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT THE PRO, WHAT ZONING DISTRICT THE PROPERTY'S AT. DO WE KNOW WHAT ZONING DISTRICT OAK STREET IS IN? I AND JUST THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY? I KNOW YOU HAVE MULTIPLE, IT'S R SIX. IT IS R SIX. THERE GO. SO THAT PROBABLY LIMITS IT. CORRECT. IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, I WANT TO SAY MULTIFAMILY MAY REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN THE R DASH SIX. I'D HAVE TO TRY TO SEE IF I COULD RESEARCH THAT MORE. UM, I DON'T HAVE THAT REALLY READILY AVAILABLE. UM, I MIGHT BE ABLE TO, LEMME SEE IF I HAVE A TABLE BEHIND. I, I CAN SAY WORKING WITH KENDRICK, [00:40:01] WE, WE TRIED A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE LOT IN ORDER TO, UH, DIVIDE IT AND THE SQUARE FOOTAGE WON'T ALLOW FOR MULTIPLE UNITS. UH, THAT'S WHEN I STARTED TRYING TO DO THE ACCESS ROUTE, UH, BECAUSE I CAN BUILD A DRIVEWAY, UH, TO ACCESS ALL OF 'EM. BUT THE DRIVEWAY IS NOT PERMITTED AS ACCESS. UH, SO THAT'S, I I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE IT WHERE IT'S BUILT FOUR UNITS ON ONE LOT WITH A PARKING AREA OUT BY THE ROAD. BUT I UNDERSTAND IT'S NOT, NOT TO CUT YOU OFF MR. MR. BERRY. UH, JUST TO INTERJECT, IT IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN RDA SIX. ALRIGHT. SO GIVEN THE GENTLEMEN USE THIS THREE MINUTES, WOULD THE BOARD LIKE TO CONTINUE DISCUSSION WITH THE GENTLEMAN AND WITH THAT I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO DO THAT. I, NO QUESTION. I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE CONTINUE DISCUSSION. I HAVE A MOTION TO HEAR A SECOND. SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE A AYE. AND OPPOSED MOTION CARRIED. BUT THAT'S IT. IT'S MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENCE. BUT YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT OTHER SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S BASICALLY ONE BUILDING ON ONE LOT. THAT'S WHAT'S ALLOWED BECAUSE OF THE CURRENT LAND USE ORDINANCE, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY FOR ADUS OR OTHER TYPES OF SITUATIONS THAT COULD ARISE. YES, SIR. THAT'S CORRECT. AND SO IS IT THE CITY'S INTENTION THAT WE WOULD IN THE REDEVELOPMENT ZONE ALLOW FOR MULTIPLE UNITS TO BE ON ANY LOT ? I MEAN, I I I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE SCOPE OF THIS, RIGHT, BECAUSE I KNOW WE RAN INTO SOME ISSUES THE LAST TIME WE LOOKED AT A SITUATION SIMILAR TO THIS THAT WAS A QUOTE UNQUOTE ONE OFF. YES, SIR. WHERE WE DON'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S A ONE OFF. WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A CHANGE TO THE ENTIRE ORDINANCE. RIGHT. AND REALLY YOU'RE, YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT IN THE APPROACH OF LOOKING AT THE SCOPE OF THINGS YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO THE PARTICULARS THAT THIS IS GOING TO NOT ONLY, UH, BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD HELP MR. BERRY, BUT IN ACTUALITY IT COULD HELP, UH, OTHER INDIVIDUALS OR ESSENTIALLY THIS COULD BE A DETRIMENT. IT CAN BE VIEWED ON BOTH SIDES OF THINGS. I I EXPRESSED IT AT THE LAST MEETING AND IT'S NOT TO IN ANY WAY PERSUADE OR DETER ANYBODY'S DECISIONS, BUT FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE, UH, WE COULD NOT SUPPORT THE CHANGE. NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT I THINK I'M GOING BACK TO, UM, THE RENEW BURN. AND YOU BROUGHT THIS UP IN THE LAST MEETING. I GOTCHA. UM, THE RENEW BURN EFFORT. AND WHAT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE CITY AROUND MULTIPLE UNITS ON A SINGLE PIECE OF PROPERTY FOR THIS TYPE OF USE? I WISH I HAD MORE INFO ON THAT. I WAS LESS INVOLVED IN THOSE DISCUSSIONS. UM, THAT WOULD BE MORE SO FOR MR. ROBERT. I, I DON'T KNOW MS. JAMIE, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN ADD? I I, I DO HAVE SOME THOUGHTS. SO, UM, AS I ATTEND YOUR BOARD MEETINGS, I ATTEND THREE DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION MEETINGS. I'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR THE PAST, SINCE LIKE 2000 PRE FLORENCE. UM, SO I, I HAVE SOME HISTORIOGRAPHY WITH THEM. I WILL SAY THAT IN THE R SIX, WHETHER IT'S IN THE REDEVELOPMENT AREA OR NOT, YOU CAN HAVE DUPLEXES AS A MATTER OF RIGHT. SO THAT WOULD BE MULTIPLE DWELLING UNITS ON THE SAME POND AS FAR AS HAVING MULTIPLE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOMES ON ONE LOT THAT IS NOT PERMITTED ANYWHERE IN THE CITY OF NEW BRU. AND I THINK HISTORICALLY THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS IN NEW BRUN, BY AND LARGE HAVE BEEN ONE HOUSE ONE LOT. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY APPETITE AT THIS JUNCTURE TO CHANGE THAT. NOW CERTAINLY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENCES YOU CAN HAVE, UM, I THINK OUR LAND USE ORDINANCE LAYS OUT, YOU CAN HAVE DETACHED STRUCTURES THAT WILL OPT ON A SINGLE LOT THAT OPERATE AS MULTIFAMILY. WHAT MR. BARRY, AND I'M NOT GONNA ATTEMPT HIS LAST NAME EITHER TODAY BECAUSE I'VE MESSED IT UP BEFORE. WHAT HE'S PROPOSING IS NOT NECESSARILY MULTIFAMILY 'CAUSE HE WANTS ONE STRUCTURE PER LOT. BUT I THINK HE'S HAVING DIFFICULTY BECAUSE IN SUBDIVIDING HIS PARCEL, THERE ARE SOME LOTS THAT WILL NOT HAVE STREET FRENCH. AND WHAT HE IS ASKING YOU ALL TO CONSIDER IS REVISING THE RULE WITHIN OUR CODE. THAT REQUIRES A LOT TO HAVE ACCESS TO A PUBLIC STREET. AND THAT WOULD TAKE PLACE NOT JUST IN THE DEVELOPMENT AREA, BUT ANYWHERE IN THE CITY OR . AND I THINK MY POINT ABOUT THE RE NEWBURN EFFORT IS THAT THE DESIRE THERE IS TO HAVE CONDITIONAL ZONING AND COULD CONDITIONAL ZONING IN THE FUTURE CREATE AN EASIER PATH TO GET TO WHAT THE REQUEST [00:45:01] IS HERE WITHOUT CHANGING THE ENTIRE TEXT OF OUR ORDINANCE. COULD WE PUT A CONDITION ON THE PROPERTY IN, IN, IN ADDITION TO THAT, WHERE I WAS GOING WAS IF, IF THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS WITH, UM, THE DIRECTOR, THE PLANNING DIRECTOR AND THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR WITH THE CONSULTANT, AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WAYS THAT THEY WANTED TO CHANGE THE LAND USE ORDINANCE IN THE FUTURE. AND I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TINY HOUSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO HELP OUT SITUATIONS. I'D BE VERY INTERESTED TO UNDERSTAND FROM CITY STAFF WHAT DIRECTION WERE YOU HEADED IN, IN THE LAND USE ORDINANCE, SUBORDINATES, RERATE, WHERE DID YOU WANT TO GO? AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHY CAN'T WE JUST ADDRESS IT THAT WAY AS A, AS A ONE-OFF, AS A, AS A ONE-OFF WITHIN THAT AND CHANGE THE ORDINANCE THAT WAY? IT THAT'S A FINE POINT. I, I THINK IMPLICIT IN THE PLANNING DIRECTOR'S, UM, LACK OF SUPPORT FOR THIS CONCEPT, I THINK IT KIND OF FORECASTS WHAT HER APPETITE MIGHT BE. UM, I DON'T SPEAK FOR HER OBVIOUSLY, AND IF YOU WANT INPUT FROM HER, I'M SURE SHE CAN SHARE THAT WITH YOU. UM, BUT IF YOU'D LIKE TO HEAR, YOU KNOW, FROM THE PLANNING DIRECTOR OR THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ENVISIONING MORE TYPES OF HOUSING MM-HMM . AND HOUSING OPTIONS MM-HMM . AS WE LOOK FORWARD IN THE FUTURE, UM, BEFORE YOU MAKE AN OPINION ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR REQUEST. AND CERTAINLY THAT CAN BE ACCOMMODATED. I MEAN, ALL OF THIS IS SOMEWHAT NEW BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BOARD OF ALDERMAN THINKS ABOUT ALL OF THIS. AND BASICALLY WE'RE JUST RECOMMENDING SOMETHING TO THEM ANYWAY, WHICH IS ANOTHER PART OF IT. UM, BUT WITHIN A REDEVELOPMENT ZONE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO COME UP WITH ALTERNATIVE METHODS OF HOUSING AND, AND HELP FOLKS OUT SEEMS TO ME TO BE A WORTHWHILE ENDEAVOR. I I'M JUST INTERESTED, I I DON'T KNOW THAT WE AS THE, AND YOU MAY THINK DIFFERENTLY, BUT I, I DON'T KNOW IF WE AS THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD CAN KIND OF COME UP WITH WHAT THAT IS. I MEAN, WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR CITY STAFF TO TELL US WHAT YOU WANT THAT TEXT AMENDMENT OR AMENDMENT TO THE ORDINANCE TO LOOK LIKE, RIGHT? YEP. THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH. AND SO I'D BE INTERESTED IF CITY STAFF WANTED TO TAKE A STAB AT REWRITING THAT ORDINANCE, UM, IN THE WAY THAT THEY WANTED IT TO GO IN THE NEW LAND USE ORDINANCE AND TO SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. AND MAYBE WE, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. NO, I JUST TO SEE IF, IF ANY OF US HAVE QUESTIONS OR WE COULD ADD SOMETHING. I I, YOU, YOU MENTIONED A POINT EARLIER, MR. INGRAM, UM, AND, AND MR. BARRY MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP FILL IN THE GAP THERE ABOUT THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION AND, UH, PAYING DEFERENCE TO THEM. I THINK BARRY, YOU WENT TO ONE OF THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION MEETINGS EARLIER IN THE YEAR. UM, IF YOU WANT TO SHARE ANY OF THE COMMENTS, IF ANY, THAT YOU RECEIVED FROM THEM. YEAH, SO IT WAS, UH, THERE MAY MAYBE, AND I WENT TO THEM AND PRESENTED THE SAME THING I PRESENTED TO Y'ALL, UH, AT THE SAME TIME, UH, THERE, THERE WASN'T ANY DISCUSSION ON IT, BUT THEY, THEY SEEMED RECEPTIVE TO IT. UH, AND LIKE I SAID, I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO, TO BUILD THESE SMALL HOUSES TO IMPROVE THE, THE LIVING SITUATION IN THE AREA. I MEAN, 'CAUSE IT'S, THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL THERE, BUT UNTIL SOMEBODY STARTS BUILDING MORE NEW THINGS THERE, IT'S, IT'S NEVER GOING TO TAKE OFF. RIGHT. NO, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. I, AND IT MAKES IT A LOT EASIER FOR ME IF I CAN PUT MORE THAN, YOU KNOW, ONE ALL LOT, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WITH THE, THE MULTIFAMILY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT'S ONE WAY IS TO CHANGE THE MULTIFAMILY WHERE I COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED ON A LOT VERSUS THEY HAVE TO BE ATTACHED. LIKE I SAID, I, I'M OPEN TO ANYTHING TO, BUT BACK TO KENDRICK'S POINT, I MEAN BASICALLY WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT ANOTHER SITUATION. YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO CONNECT ALL OF THOSE UNITS TOGETHER IN SOME WAY, RIGHT? EITHER THROUGH A WALK, A COVERED WALKWAY THAT WAS PERMANENT OR YOU KNOW, SOME OTHER STRUCTURE SO THAT IT ALL LOOKS LIKE ONE BUILDING. THE PROBLEM IS, AND I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, IS YOU CAN'T HAVE MORE THAN ONE BUILDING ON A WALL. THAT'S THE ISSUE. UM, THE WAY I SEE IT AT THAT'S THE ISSUE. UM, SO I DON'T KNOW. I JUST FEEL LIKE CITY STAFF AND THEN WITH IF REDEVELOPMENT THINKS THIS IS A GOOD IDEA AND HAVE CITY STAFF WRITE SOMETHING AND MAYBE HAVE COMMENTS FROM REDEVELOPMENT AND SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT AFTER THAT. I, I'M TRYING TO FIND A WAY FORWARD HERE. UM, MAYBE CITY STAFF, LIKE I SAID, COMES UP WITH A, WITH AN AMENDMENT, TAKE IT TO MR. HUFF AND THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION TO SEE WHAT THEY, IF THEY AGREE THAT'S A WAY THEY WANT TO GO AND THEN BRING IT TO US. AND MR. RUSTY, UH, [00:50:01] THERE WAS THIS PARTICULAR SECTION THAT WE HAD, I CAN'T RECALL THE EXACT SECTION, BUT IT'S FOR, UH, BASIC RESIDENTIAL, BASIC RESIDENTIAL FORMS. AND SO JUST TO TRY TO CLARIFY, YOU ACTUALLY, YOU CAN HAVE DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS IN A MULTITUDE OF LIKE ONE HERE, ONE HERE, YOU KNOW, ONE ON THE REAR, UM, OR TWO ON THE REAR WITHOUT IT HAVING THE BREEZEWAY. THE DIFFERENCE IN THE CONNECTION TO WHAT WE DISCUSSED WITH THE A DU IS THE POINT OF TRYING TO ESTABLISH IT WITHOUT IT BEING CONSIDERED AS MULTIFAMILY. SO THAT'S WHY THE DIFFERENCE IS THERE. BUT IF MULTIFAMILY IS AUTHORIZED BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT, YOU CAN HAVE THEM BASED ON WHAT THE ORDINANCE HAS AS A LAYOUT. IT SHOWS FOUR SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLINGS IN WITHOUT ANY INTERCONNECTION OF A BREEZEWAY ON ONE LOT. ON ONE LOT. AND THE SINGULAR DIFFERENCE, LIKE I SAID, VERSUS THE A DU IN MOST CASES WHERE FOLKS ARE TRYING TO DO THAT POTENTIAL FOR AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, IT'S THE POINT THAT MULTIFAMILY ISN'T ALLOWED IN THAT DISTRICT. SO BY A SPECIAL USE, IT HAS TO BE BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT. EXACTLY. SO, AND MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT, THEY DON'T HAVE AN APPETITE TO PURSUE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO ESTABLISH A 800 SQUARE FOOT, YOU KNOW, STRUCTURE. SO THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. I DON'T WANT TO CONFUSE OR I WANTED TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY WAS CLEAR ON THAT. THERE IS A MEANS THAT ALLOWS FOR MULTIPLE DWELLINGS TO TAKE PLACE ON THE LOTS THROUGH THE MULTIFAMILY USE IF IT'S ALLOWABLE BY A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. I'M TRYING TO CLARIFY THAT. I KNOW IT'S A LOT TO PROCESS. NO, I ASK QUESTION. I GUESS I'M MORE CONFUSED NOW ABOUT THE CONVERSATION WE HAD BEFORE. SO I'LL TRY TO CLARIFY THE ACCESSORY DWELL UNIT, THE A DU SITUATION, IF MULTIFAMILY ISS NOT ALLOWED IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT, THEN THE CONNECTION TO EACH WAY IS WHAT GIVES YOU THAT IT'S MULTIFAMILY NOT ALLOWED. IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLING IN THAT EVENT AND YOU'RE NOT MAKING YES, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY NOW I UNDERSTAND. THANKS SIR. YES. UH, MR. BERRY, YOU HAVE A QUESTION. UH, ARE YOU SAYING THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED OR WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED RIGHT THERE? SO BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT, IF YOU MEET ALL THE, ALL THE, UH, REQUIREMENTS, THEN YES, IT SAYS BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT YOU CAN DO IT ON BY THIS TABLE. HOWEVER, WITH YOUR SITUATION, AS WE DISCUSSED, THERE WAS REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO MEET. 'CAUSE THE LOT DIDN'T MEET THE SIZES. OKAY. THAT WAS THE, THAT THAT WAS THE MAJOR ISSUE THAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING TRYING TO SUBDIVIDE AND DO IT SINGULARLY. BUT YOU, YOU RAN INTO A SIMILAR ISSUE WITH MEETING THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE. AGAIN, THAT IS THE ACCESS, ACTUALLY THE ACCESS. IT WAS THE ACCESS. I'M THE ACCESS, YEAH. I COULD SUBDIVIDE THAT LOT INTO FOUR LOTS AND MEET THE MINIMUM SQUARE FOOT. BUT BECAUSE OF THE ACCESS, THE ACCESS WAS, IT WAS, YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE STREET FOR ALL EVEN THOUGH IT'S 50 FOOT AWAY FROM THE STREET. RIGHT? RIGHT. YEAH. SO BASICALLY YOU'D HAVE ONE COMPONENT STOPPING HIM ON ONE SIDE AND ANOTHER COMPONENT STOPPING HIM ON THE OTHER SIDE. SO ACCESS AND LACK OF SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO, AND THERE'S NOT AN OPTION FOR A EASEMENT OR SOMETHING. NOT UNDER OUR ORDINANCE. OUR ORDINANCE REQUIRES FRONTAGE ON A EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY. UM, DIRECT ACCESS ON THE PUBLIC STREET IS OBVIOUSLY FRONTING ON THE STREET. INDIRECT ACCESS ALLOWS FOR CONNECTIVITY SUCH AS EASEMENTS, DRIVEWAYS FROM THE 1950S, BUT DOES NOT PERMIT EASEMENT OR DRIVE WHAT YOU COULD DO A DRIVEWAY, YOU COULD DO A PRIVATE DRIVEWAY, BUT WE HAVE DESIGN CONSTRUCTIONS FOR THAT WHICH MAY NOT BE SUITABLE FOR BARRY TO DEVELOPMENT. AND WE HAVE, JUST TO INCLUDE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEXT, WE HAVE WENT THROUGH THE LENGTHS OF, OF COURSE, CONSULTING LEGAL COUNSEL. WE CONSULTED WITH PUBLIC WORKS. UM, PUBLIC WORKS TRIED TO, I THINK SHED A LITTLE BIT OF LIGHT ON MR. BARRY'S SITUATION AS WELL WITH SOME OF THEIR REQUIREMENTS. SO IT'S NOT, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DEEPER THAN JUST MYSELF FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE. UM, I HAVE TALKED WITH MR. GEORGE CHARLES, THE DIRECTOR FOR PUBLIC WORKS, AND HE FOUND IT DIFFICULT TO, UH, TRY TO WORK THROUGH THE ISSUES. I'M NOT SAYING, AND I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR HIM, BUT THAT WAS HIS OPINION. UM, I'M NOT SAYING IT DISMISSED THE MATTER, BUT HE DIDN'T SEE IT, UH, AS BEING PROMISING BASED ON HIS REQUIREMENTS. SO THAT WAS UPSET. HE SAID PRIVATE DRIVEWAY AND PRIVATE STREET, HE COULD DO A PRIVATE STREET BUILT TO CITY CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS, WHICH MAY TAKE UP MORE FRONTAGE AND MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAN HE WOULD LIKE FOR HIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT. AND THEN THINKING ABOUT HOW CHANGING WHAT ACCESS LOOKS LIKE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY CREATES OPPORTUNITIES AND POSSIBLY DETRIMENTS AS WELL. SO YOU'RE, JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU'RE SAYING IF HE WERE TO PUT A PRIVATE STREET ON HIS ROAD, HE COULD THEN DO WHAT HE WANTED? [00:55:01] IF ON HIS LOT, IF, WELL ACTUALLY NO, THAT YOU'RE SAYING IF HE PUT A PRIVATE STREET ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER OR HOWEVER HE DID IT AND THEN HE COULD BUILD HIS HOUSES. THAT COULD BE, BUT THAT PRIVATE STREET IS PROBABLY TOO BIG FOR THE LOT, I WOULD ASSUME IT IS. OKAY. YOU'VE ALREADY LOOKED AT IT. OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH. I'LL STOP. I HAVE A QUESTION, SIR. ON, SIR, ON YOUR ONE SHEET WHERE THE HOUSES ARE ALL IN LINE. YES SIR. THERE'S NUMBERS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BLUE LINE ARE ABOUT THE FULL SIZE OF EACH INDIVIDUAL LOT OR Y YEAH, THAT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE OFF BY 10 FEET BECAUSE YOU HAVE LIKE, THE TOP ONE IS 29 FEET. MM-HMM . THEN YOU HAVE A 10 FOOT SIDE, 15 FOOT SIDE, AND A 14 HOUSE THAT'S 39 FEET, NOT 29. AND THAT'S ON, ALL OF 'EM ARE OFF BY THAT 10 FEET. OKAY. SO I JUST MAPPED IT WRONG. UH, I COULD STILL PUT THREE HERE INSTEAD OF FOUR. OKAY. YEAH, YOU CAN PUT THREE. YOU CAN, YEAH. OKAY. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, THE WAY THE CODE'S WRITTEN, I COULD DIVIDE THIS THE LONG WAY AND PUT TWO, I'D MUCH RATHER PUT THREE. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . THAT'S GOOD FOR ME. IT'S GOOD FOR EVERYBODY. MM-HMM . I, I, I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS I JUST KEEP COMING BACK TO THIS IS A CHANGE FROM THE WAY VERN TYPICALLY DOES THINGS. AND IF THAT'S WHAT CITY STAFF AND THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION WANT TO DO, THEN WE, WE SHOULD LOOK AT WAYS TO DO THAT AND GET REDEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING AND ZONING ALL ON THE SAME PAGE AND PROPOSE SOMETHING TO THE BOARD OF DEN. AND THAT MAKES SENSE BASED ON THE DIRECTION THAT THE CITY WANTS TO GO. IT SHOULDN'T BE TOO HARD TO DO THAT. I WOULDN'T THINK IF WE WERE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT, IF WE WEREN'T ALREADY TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE LAND USE ORDINANCE, I WOULD SAY, OKAY, THIS COULD BE TOUGH. IT WOULD TAKE A WHILE. WE WERE ALREADY IN THE THROES, WE CITY STAFF WE'RE ALREADY IN THE THROES OF DOING THAT. SO THERE HAD TO HAVE BEEN SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE DIRECTION THIS WAS GONNA GO. I, I DON'T GET THAT OR I, IT'S NOT MY FEELING THAT CITY STAFF WANTS TO MAKE THAT CHANGE THAT YOU'RE ANSWER. OKAY. WELL THAT'S, THAT'S, I'M NOT A D QUESTION, I'M NOT GONNA SPEAK FOR THEM, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S JUST, THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION OF WHAT WE'VE HEARD. THE CITY STAFF THINKS THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING. SO TO MR. INGRAM'S POINT, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS THAT TEXT AMENDMENTS CAN BE INITIATED. THE BOARD OF ALMAN CAN INITIATE THE TEXT AMENDMENT. A BOARD OR COMMISSION CAN INITIATE A TEXT. SO THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION, UM, IF AFTER THE PRESENTATION FOUND SUPPORT FOR IT, THEY COULD INITIATE THE PROCESS TO AMEND THE CODE. A DEPARTMENT HEAD CAN INITIATE A TEXT. SO IF MS. RU IN REVIEWING THIS PROPOSAL FELT THAT SHE SUPPORTED IT, SHE COULD INITIATE A TEXT AMENDMENT REFLECTING MR. BARRY'S SENTIMENTS AND CHANGES. UM, TO DATE, NONE OF THOSE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. SO YOU'RE ANOTHER BOARD OBVIOUSLY THAT HAS FAMILIARITY WITH THE LAND USE ORDINANCE AND I THINK THAT'S WHY MR. BARRY IS HERE TO SEE IF YOU HAVE ANY APPETITE TO, UM, RECOMMEND A TEXT AMENDMENT TO THE BOARD OF DER. HOWEVER, IF YOU WOULD LIKE, NOT CONTEXTUAL INFORMATION, BUT IF YOU'D LIKE AN OPINION FROM LET'S JUST SAY THE PLANNING DIRECTOR OR THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION OR THE COMMISSIONERS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THEN YOU CERTAINLY CAN DIRECT STAFF TO TRY TO FIND THAT INFORMATION FOR YOU AND BRING IT BACK TO YOUR CONSIDERATION. AND, AND JUST ONE MORE THING ON IT, IT'S, I I UNDERSTAND YOU DON'T WANT TO AFFECT THE ENTIRE CITY. I KNOW I'VE TOLD KENDRICK MY FOCUS IS IN THE RDC MM-HMM . IF YOU COULD ALLOW OR MAKE A TEXT AMENDMENT THAT WOULD ALLOW DRIVEWAYS TO CONSTITUTE AS INDIRECT ACCESS, UH, THAN JUST IN THE RDCI, I THINK THAT WOULD HELP ME. UM, I WOULD DEFER TO THE LAWYERS ON THAT ONE. WELL, AND, AND ALREADY TO THE REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION. YEAH. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S OUR PLACE. THIS, MY OPINION IS IT'S NOT THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD'S PLACE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION LIKE THAT FOR A REDEVELOPMENT ZONE. WE HAVE A REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION IF THEY WANT TO ASK FOR THAT AND HAVE US GET ON BOARD WITH THEM, THAT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMAL. BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S, MY, MY POSITION WOULD BE, IT'S NOT FOR US TO MAKE THAT DECISION, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THE WAY I FIGURED ABOUT IT. SORRY. NO, WELL, I MEAN, I, I WOULD THINK Y'ALL WERE BE HALF OF IT. I MEAN YOU'RE THE SURE YOU'RE CON THE ZONING BOARD. RIGHT. [01:00:01] SO I MEAN, IF I CAN GET, YOU KNOW, YOU AT LEAST SHOWING SOME INTEREST IN IT THAT I CAN TAKE BACK TO THE RDC, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD HELP. I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S VIEW ON THIS. WOULD IT BE, UH, JUST TO TRY TO CLARIFY, WOULD IT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO SEE FROM THE DIRECTOR? UM, UH, YEAH. TO ESSENTIALLY BE WRITTEN JUST WITH AN EXPLANATION. BUT THAT COULD BE, IF THAT'S HELPFUL, I CAN TRY TO SEE IF I CAN ARRANGE THAT A WRITTEN OR THE ASSISTANT, WELL ACTUALLY HAS TO BE FROM THE DIRECTOR, LIKE A POSITION PAPER. WHAT IS, WHAT DOES THE DIRECTOR, THE PLANNING DIRECTOR, FEEL ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE? UNDERSTANDABLE. OKAY. I MIGHT ASK HER TO WRITE A REPORT. SHE'S MORE THAN WELCOME TO COME TO THE NEXT MEETING AND GIVE US A REPORT AS WELL. HOWEVER, IF THE BOARD FEELS THAT THAT'S PERTINENT, UM, I'M SEEING A LOT OF SHAKING HEADS, THEN PERHAPS. OKAY. UM, SHE CAN DO THAT. I WILL, I'LL PRESENT HER WITH BOTH OPTIONS AND SHE'LL MAKE THAT DECISION. IS THERE, IS THERE ANYTHING IN WRITING THAT WE COULD GET AS WELL FROM ANY OF THE OTHER DEPARTMENT HEADS ON THIS ITEM? OR HAVE THEY JUST BEEN DISCUSSIONS IN AMONGST THE STAFF? THEY'VE BEEN DISCUSSIONS AMONGST, UH, MYSELF, MR. BARRY, UH, LEGAL COUNSEL, AND THEN OF COURSE, LIKE I SAID, MAINLY WITH PUBLIC WORKS, UH, MR. GEORGE CHILES. MM-HMM . I THINK MR. OFFICIAL WAS THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR HAS KIND OF BEEN IN BETWEEN AS WELL A LITTLE BIT. BUT MAINLY WITH MR. CHILD, THE PUBLIC WORKS CONCERNS, IS IT AROUND ACCESS? I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR THEM. UM, THEY HAVE REQUIREMENTS PERTAINING TO DRIVEWAYS AND THINGS AND THAT I, I, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD, IT MAY CAUSE ISSUES WITH TRYING TO GET IT ESTABLISHED WHERE MR. BARRY IS LOCATED OR WHERE, WHERE THE PROPERTIES ARE THAT HE'S TRYING TO DO THIS FOR. MM-HMM . UM, I, AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO DETER OR TRY TO, WOULD IT, WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE FOR THIS BOARD TO ASK FOR THAT OPINION FROM THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR? IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN, IT'S NOT, YOU CAN DIRECT STAFF TO CONTACT THE PLANNING DIRECTOR, THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS, TO ELICIT THEIR OPINIONS ON THIS PROPOSED CHANGE. IS THAT SOMETHING THE BOARD HAS APPETITE FOR? I, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DIRECT CITY STAFF TO REQUEST POSITIONS FROM THE PLANNING DIRECTOR AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR ON THIS PARTICULAR PROPOSAL. SO JUST THOSE TWO? JUST THOSE TWO. OKAY. BECAUSE I, I HAVEN'T HEARD CITY STAFF TELL US THAT ANY OTHER DEPARTMENT HAS WEIGHED IN ON THIS. NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF. UH, MR. BARRY DOES THAT SAME ACCURATE? YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. I HAVE A MOTION, I HAVE A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED MOTION CASE. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON MR. PERRY'S? UH, MR. PERRY? THE, UM, STREET NUMBER ON OAK STREET THAT THIS PROPERTY IS, I DON'T SEE IT ON MY MAP. COULD YOU? 7 24. 7 24 OAK STREET? YES, CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU SIR. ALRIGHT, WITH THAT I'LL ENTERTAIN A, I'M SORRY. IS IT APPROPRIATE FOR US TO ASK MR. BERRY FOR THE ADDRESSES FOR ALL OF THE PROPERTIES THAT YOU WANNA DO THIS FOR? IS THAT APPROPRIATE? WELL, I THINK MR. BARRY'S REQUEST IS THAT THERE BE A TEXT AMENDMENT FOR THE ENTIRE REDEVELOPMENT AREA ADDRESS AGNOSTIC. OH, . SO THAT WOULD BE THE AREA THAT YOU PROBABLY BOOK? I I CURRENTLY OWN EIGHT PROPERTIES IN THE RDC. UM, SOME OF THEM WILL ONLY SUPPORT ONE HOUSE. I'M ACTUALLY, UH, BUILDING ON, UH, 10 13 MAIN STREET, SUPPOSED TO BREAK GROUND, BEGIN JULY. UH, THAT'S GONNA BE A TINY HOME. LITERALLY, IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD FIT ON THAT LOT. IT'S SO SMALL. UH, BUT THERE I DO HAVE SOME LARGER LOTS, LIKE 7 24 OAK, UH, THAT CAN FIT MULTIPLE, UM, OR MAYBE JUST TWO INSTEAD OF ONE. UH, YEAH, I'M, LIKE I SAID, I'M TRYING TO MAXIMIZE MY EFFORT TO DEAL WITH WHAT I HAVE. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THAT. THANK YOU, SIR. YEAH, I WAS, I, I WAS MERELY ASKING SO I COULD TRY BY IT AND GET A FEEL FOR IT, SO, BUT YOU, I, I DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS APPROPRIATE OR, UM, QUESTION. HAVING SAID THAT, PUBLIC COMMENT IS, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. MOVE THE ADJOURN SECOND. MOTION SECOND FOR DISCUSSION. HEARING NONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED. MOTION CARRIES. WE'RE ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.