Jul 16, 2025 Historic Preservation Commission

BEING THE APPOINTED HOUR, I HEREBY CALL THIS, UH, REGULARLY REGULAR HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING TO ORDER.

[1. OPENING OF MEETING WITH ROLL CALL]

UH, CAN WE HAVE A ROLL CALL? YES, CERTAINLY.

RICHARD PARSON? HERE.

AND, UH, TO THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE REGULARS, YOU'LL NOTE WE'VE GOT TWO NEW MEMBERS, ROSS BEBE AND JOHN SCHMID.

AND, UH, I'M SURE YOU CAN RECOGNIZE WHO THEY ARE.

SO WE, WE WELCOME THEM TONIGHT TO THEIR FIRST REGULAR MEETING.

UM, YEAH, THEY HAVE MAIN TEXTS AND THEY HAVE NAME TEXTS, .

UH, NEXT

[2. COMMISSION ELECTIONS]

ITEM ON THE AGENDA WILL BE ELECTIONS.

AND, UH, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS, UM, WE'LL FIRST HAVE A NOMINATION PROCESS FOR CHAIR.

UH, WE'LL CONDUCT THAT VOTE AND SETTLE THAT MATTER.

UH, ONCE THE NEW CHAIR HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED, I, I WILL SWITCH PLACES AND THEN THE NEW CHAIR WILL CONDUCT, UH, THE ELECTION OF THE VICE CHAIR.

AND THAT'S THE WAY WE'VE CUSTOMARILY DONE THAT IN THE PAST.

SO, ANY, ANY QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? ALRIGHT.

SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, UM, LET, LET'S OPEN THE FLOOR FOR, FOR NOMINATIONS.

MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR.

I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE JIM MORRISON.

UH, JIM HAS BEEN ON THE, ON THE BOARD FOR A LONG TIME.

HE'S VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE GUIDELINES, AND I THINK HE WOULD, BECAUSE HE WAS INVOLVED WITH SOME OF THE UPDATES BEFORE AND, AND WE'RE GOING BE GOING THROUGH AN UPDATE IN THE NEXT YEAR OR SO.

I, I THINK HE WOULD BE A GREAT CHAIR.

SO I NOMINATE, UH, JIM MORRISON.

I SECOND IT.

DO NOMINATIONS GET SECONDED? YES.

SO WE HAVE A NOMINATION AND A SECOND.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS FOR CHAIR? DO WE HAVE, UH, SINCE I GUESS THIS IS VERY FORMAL, A MOTION TO CLOSE THE NOMINATIONS? I SO MOVED.

HAVE A MOTION.

WE HAVE A SECOND.

UH, WE HAVE A SECOND.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF CLOSING THE NOMINATION FOR CHAIR, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? ALRIGHT, SO, UH, WE HAVE ONE CANDIDATE.

I GUESS THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO GO ABOUT THIS.

UM, UH, CAN WE HAVE A MOTION OF ACCLIMATION? I WOULD GUESS THAT OUR ONE CANDIDATE WOULD BE CHAIR.

SO MOVE.

AND A SECOND.

ALRIGHT, CONGRATULATIONS.

ANY DISCUSSION? YEAH, I, I WORKED WITH JIM FOR, UH, WHAT, 10 YEARS ON, ON THE, UH, ON THE HBC.

UH, I THINK HE'S VERY QUALIFIED FOR THIS, UH, POSITION.

BEING A FORMER BANKER.

HE UNDERSTANDS, UH, THE IMPORTANCE OF RULES OF PROCEDURE.

IN FACT, UH, GEMINI DRAFTED AND, UH, AND FINALIZE THE RULES OF PROCEDURE THAT WE'RE PRETTY MUCH WORKING ON NOW.

UM, JIM HAS, HAS ALWAYS BEEN A SPOKESMAN, UH, AS FAR AS TRYING TO BE REASONABLE AND THOUGHTFUL ABOUT WHAT WE DO.

SO I THINK YOU WOULD MAKE AN EXCELLENT, UH, AN EXCELLENT SHARE.

WELL, SIR, VERY GOOD.

ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE.

A AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? ALRIGHT.

SO WITH THAT SAID, TAKE MY NAME SECOND.

I MISS MANY YEARS IN THIS SEAT.

MANY, MANY YEARS.

OH YEAH, IT'S A GOOD SPOT DOWN IN THAT CORNER.

LET'S SEE.

I THINK THAT'S YOUR TOO.

NAH, THIS IS OKAY.

TURN OFF.

STUFF SIGNED AT THE END.

I CANNOT TURN ANYTHING OFF.

UH, MIKE IS, IS A TRAINED ENGINEER.

APPRECIATE THE KIND COMMENTS.

CONGRATULATIONS.

AND NOW SECOND ITEM WILL BE NOMINATIONS FOR VICE CHAIR.

AND I'D LIKE TO OPEN THE FLOOR FOR NOMINATIONS FOR VICE CHAIR.

MR. MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE, UH, MIKE WONKA AS THE VICE CHAIR.

UH, HE HAS BEEN ON THE HPC ABOUT A YEAR.

UH, VERY COURT LEARNER UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT IS WE'RE TRYING TO DO.

HE HAS A DIRECT STAKE IN THE, UH, IN THE GUIDELINES AND IN THE HPC SINCE HE OWNS A HISTORIC PROPERTY IN DOWN IN THE DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT.

[00:05:01]

UH, HE WAS ALSO A, AN ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY FOR CITY MANAGER, I BELIEVE 25 YEARS, NOT ATTORNEY MANAGER.

I, I'M SORRY, CITY MANAGER.

SORRY.

ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER FOR, UH, ABOUT 25 YEARS.

SO HE, HE UNDERSTANDS, UH, YOU KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATIVE ASPECTS.

HE UNDERSTANDS ORDINANCES, HE UNDERSTANDS, UH, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THE GUIDELINES.

SO I THINK, UH, HE WOULD, HE WOULD BE VERY USEFUL TO YOU AS A CHAIR, AS THE CHAIR, UH, TO HAVE HIM AS YOUR VICE CHAIR.

CERTAINLY AGREE.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS? IS THERE MOTION NOMINATIONS BE CLOSED? SO MOVED.

SO MOVED.

SECOND THEN.

SHALL WE, BY AFFIRMATION, DID WE GET A SECOND TO THE NOMINATION? I'M SORRY.

SINCE WE ARE ONE CANDIDATE, SHALL WE HAVE ANOTHER ACCLIMATION NOMINATION? SO MOVED.

WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE REMAINDER OF THE AGENDA.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.

AND I'M GONNA REALLY RELY ON MIKE JUST WHAT, UH, TIM TALKED ABOUT IS HIS HISTORY WITH CITY MANAGEMENT AND WE REALLY WANNA MAKE SURE WE STAY IN COMPLIANCE WITH EVERYTHING.

AS HE SAID, I WAS A BANKER.

UH, WE HAD A FEW LAWS THAT WE HAD TO COMPLY WITH.

AND SO, UH, I'M VERY ATTUNED TO THAT.

I READ A LOT, I READ A LOT OF STATE STATUTES AND LOCAL ORDINANCES.

AND SO, UH, I THINK HIS HELP WILL BE IMMENSELY HELPFUL.

UH, OVER THE NEXT YEAR, WE'LL HAVE ELECTIONS AGAIN NEXT JULY AS PER THE RULES OF PROCEDURE.

SO WITH THAT,

[3. ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA]

ARE THERE ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA? UM, MR. CHAIR? UM, I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME RESIDENTS HERE LOOKING TO TALK ABOUT 500 QUEEN STREET.

AND, AND AS YOU KNOW, UM, THAT'S LIKELY TO BE, UM, POSTPONED BECAUSE THEY'RE, UM, WE'RE NOT READY TO HEAR THEM YET.

WELL, IT HAS BEEN FORMALLY CONTINUED TO TONIGHT.

AND, AND, BUT BECAUSE THEY'RE, UH, PROBABLY, UH, STILL NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, WHICH HASN'T BEEN GRANTED YET.

SO IF THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO ARE LOOKING TO, TO, FOR THE 500 QUEEN STREET, YOU'RE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO STAY.

BUT THAT PROBABLY WON'T BE DISCUSSED TONIGHT BECAUSE THEIR SPECIAL USE PERMIT HAS NOT BEEN GRANTED YET.

AND SO WE WON'T BE HEARING THAT.

IT, IT, IT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT AT THE NEXT BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT HEARING, I BELIEVE.

UH, WHICH IS USUALLY THE FOURTH.

WE, FOURTH WEDNESDAY OF THE MONTH.

I BELIEVE IT GENERALLY, IT GENERALLY IS THE FIRST FOURTH THURSDAY OF THE MONTH.

FOURTH THURSDAY.

YES, SIR.

SO APOLOGIZE FOR THAT, BUT WE WILL NOT LIKELY BRING IT UP TONIGHT.

I DON'T SEE THE APPLICANT OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE HERE TONIGHT, SO IT WOULDN'T BE FAIR TO HAVE TESTIMONY THAT HE COULDN'T REBUT.

SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, IT MAY BE HELPFUL TO KNOW THAT IN PREPARING THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT AND KNOWING THAT THAT APPLICATION WOULD BE CONTINUED, UM, BECAUSE THE PERMITTING WAS NOT IN PLACE, UM, I SUGGESTED THAT STAFF NOTIFY THE APPLICANT AND LET THEM KNOW THAT THEY NEED NOT ATTEND.

DID THAT OCCUR? MAKES SENSE MR. SHELLEY? YES.

SO THANK YOU.

SO IF, IF YOU CHOOSE TO STAY, YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.

UH, WE DON'T HAVE A LONG AGENDA TONIGHT, SO YOU'RE, IT'S BETTER THAN MANY.

UH, IF NOT, YOU'RE WELCOME TO LEAVE.

SO WE'LL MAKE THAT ADJUSTMENT TO THE ENG AGENDA AND NOT CONSIDER 500 QUEEN STREET.

WELL, YOU WILL HAVE TO DECIDE STILL CONTINUE IT AGAIN, CORRECT.

BUT WE WON'T CONSIDER, SO YOU CAN'T REMOVE IT.

WE WON'T CONSIDER DISCUSSION FOR, OKAY.

500 QUEEN STREET.

AND WILL YOU HAVE NO PRESENTATIONS OF CERTIFICATES APPRECIATION? IS THAT TRUE? UH, NOT THIS MONTH.

PROBABLY NEXT MONTH.

HEARINGS ON CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

AND NOW, APPROVAL OF WRITTEN

[5. CONSENT AGENDA]

DECISIONS.

ARE THERE ANY, THERE ARE NO ORIGINAL DECISIONS.

THE CONSENT AGENDA, UH, CONSISTS OF THE ONE SET OF MIN MEETING MINUTES THIS MONTH AND THE MEETING MINUTES.

DID YOU ALL HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE? THAT WAS THE MEETING THAT WAS CANCELED BECAUSE OF WEATHER.

UH, IF YOU HAVE NO OBJECTIONS, DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA? SOME MOVED.

UH, BEFORE WE HAVE, UH, OUR HEARINGS, WE ALWAYS INTRODUCE WHAT HAPPENS AT A HEARING,

[00:10:01]

AND I'LL GO THROUGH THAT FAIRLY BRIEFLY, BUT, UH, THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION IS A PUBLIC COMMISSION APPOINTED BY THE CITY OF NEW BERNS, B BOARD OF ALDERMAN, AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PRESERVING AND SAFEGUARDING NEW BURNS LOCALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICTS, BOTH DOWNTOWN AND RIVERSIDE, BASED ON THE US DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, STATE STATUTE, CITY ORDINANCES, AND NEW BURNS HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS.

TWO OF THE MAJOR TASKS IMPROVE IMPROVING APPLICATIONS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND PREVENTING DEMOLITION OF HISTORIC STRUCTURES DUE TO NEGLECT.

THE HBC HOLDS QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARINGS ON AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, HEAR SWORN TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, BY PARTIES WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING AND BY ANY OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT EVIDENCE AND ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE APPLICATION.

THE COMMISSION CANNOT CONSIDER COMMENTS BASED ON PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES, HEARSAY OR PERSONAL OPINION.

IT CANNOT BE DIRECTLY RELATED TO SPECIFIC HISTORIC GUIDELINES OR STANDARDS.

AND LIKEWISE, COMMISSIONERS SHALL REFRAIN FROM STATING PERSONAL OPINION, PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES OR HEARSAY DURING A HEARING.

THE COMMISSION'S DECISION ON AN APPLICATION IS BASED SOLELY ON TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT A HEARING THAT DIRECTLY RELATES TO HISTORIC GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS.

WITH THAT SAID, DOES ANYONE, WOULD ANYONE PLAN TO PRESENT EVIDENCE TONIGHT? THE APPLICANTS NEED TO, YES.

YOU NEED TO BE SWORN IN ANYONE WHO CHOOSES TO SPEAK YES.

FOR ANY TESTIMONY.

DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING EXCEPT BUT THE TRUTH? I DO.

FIRST ITEM, MR. SHELLEY SURE.

YOUR NAME AND YOUR, WHILE THEY'RE DOING THAT, THE HEARING PROCESS IS IN THIS SERIES OF STEPS, THE ADMINISTRATOR FIRST PROVIDES AN OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION THE APPLICANT OR REPRESENTATIVE PRESENTS THE APPLICATION OR ADDS INFORMATION THAT THE ADMINISTRATOR MAY HAVE NOT INCLUDED.

PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.

THOSE ARE PEOPLE THAT RECEIVED NOTICE WERE WITHIN A HUNDRED FEET OF THE HOUSE OR PROPERTY.

REBUTTAL IS ALLOWED BY THE APPLICANT AND BY PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE, OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION AND WILL BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.

THE HBC ADMINISTRATOR THEN PRESENTS THE STAFF'S FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.

THE APPLICANT OR REPRESENTATIVE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE, TO MAKE FINAL COMMENTS ON THE APPLICATION.

AND THEN THE COMMISSIONERS DISCUSS THE EVIDENCE AND MAY ASK FOR CLARIFICATION FROM THE APPLICANT OR THE PRESENTERS.

THE CHAIRMAN CALLS FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE OR DENY THE APPLICATION WITH STATED FINDINGS OF FACT AND ANY CONDITIONS THAT MAY BE ADDED.

THE CHAIRMAN CALLS FOR A VOTE ON THE MOTION BY THE COMMISSION.

IT CAN BE APPROVED, APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS OR DENIED.

WITH THAT SAID, THEN THE

[6.A. 1219 National Ave. – Continued from previous meeting: to include a new infill 1.5 story house and detached garage.]

COURT 19 NATIONAL AVENUE.

AND THIS WAS A CONTINUED HEARING FOR, UH, ISSUES ABOUT THE SETBACKS BECAUSE WE DID NOT HAVE ACCURATE DATA ON THE SETBACKS IN THE TWO BLOCKS THAT WERE INVOLVED BOTH ON NATIONAL AVENUE AND B STREET.

AND THE CITY ORDINANCE SAYS THAT THE SETBACKS ARE DETERMINED TO BE A ZONE WITHIN A ZONE OF THE MAXIMUM AND MINIMUM SETBACKS OF ALL THE PROPERTIES ON THAT BLOCK ON BOTH SIDES.

THAT'S CORRECT.

UH, BEFORE WE DO EVERYTHING ELSE.

SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE IS THE APPLICATION.

AND YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, OWNER'S NAME HERE, UH, THOMAS EDWARDS CONSTRUCTION INCORPORATED.

THEY ARE HERE TODAY AND WE HAVE, UH, THEIR DESCRIPTION OF THE PROJECT, UH, THE GUIDELINES, UH, THAT THEY SAY ARE NOT APPLICABLE, UH, AND THE REST, BECAUSE IT'S ALL ATTACHED IN THE POWERPOINT.

UH, THEY PROVIDED ALL THE OTHER INFORMATION AND YOU CAN SEE, UH, THEY'VE SIGNED AND DATED THAT.

AND I WILL ASK THE, THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR NOW HAS PROVIDED THE INFORMATION WE DID NOT HAVE LAST TIME.

CORRECT? UH, WELL YET THE SURVEYOR HAS PROVIDED THE INFORMATION, SO THERE'S NO ZONING ISSUES WE'RE AWARE OF.

THAT'S CORRECT.

SO WE ARE RIGHT NOW, NOW WE'RE STARTING WITH THE ZONING AND INSPECTIONS REPORT,

[00:15:01]

UH, AND IT DOES SAY THAT A ZONING PERMIT WILL BE REQUIRED.

UH, THIS IS JUST A STANDARD HOUSE, SO THERE'S NO SPECIAL USE PERMIT REQUIRED FOR THIS.

AND, UH, CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTORS SAYS, OF COURSE, A NEW HOUSE WILL REQUIRE A BUILDING PERMIT.

SO WE WENT OVER THESE, A LOT OF THIS THE LAST TIME, UH, BUT WE'LL, UH, TRY AND GO THROUGH THIS REAL QUICKLY FOR THE, OUR NEW MEMBERS AS WELL AS PERHAPS THE, THE, UH, UM, PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE HERE, THE PUBLIC.

UH, SO THIS IS THE SITE HERE ON NATIONAL AVENUE CORNER OF NATIONAL AVENUE AND AVENUE, UH, SORRY, B STREET.

UH, AND THIS IS A CLOSER UP VIEW.

IT'S CURRENTLY VACANT, HAS SOME TREES ON IT, AND IT HAS NEIGHBORS, UH, IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTH SIDE THERE AND THEN ALSO TO THE WEST SIDE ON THE LEFT.

UH, THEN WE, WE, UH, LAST TIME ALSO WE SHOWED A VARIOUS, A WHOLE SERIES OF STREET VIEW SHOTS, GIVING YOU AN IDEA OF THE, UH, UM, CONDITION OF THE SITE AND THE CONDITIONS OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTIES AROUND THE, THE, UH, SITE.

AND WE WENT OVER THESE THE LAST TIME.

UM, AND THESE ARE NEIGHBORS ACROSS THE STREET TO THE LEFT OR TO THE, UH, SO IT WOULD BE TO THE EAST TO, UM, AND THEN, UH, IMMEDIATELY ACROSS THE STREET, NATIONAL AVENUE.

AND THEN, UM, DOWN THE, DOWN THE STREET ON NATIONAL AVENUE, THE, UH, THE HOUSE ON THE RIGHT IS IMMEDIATELY ACROSS FROM THE SITE ALONG B STREET.

AND THE ONE ON THE LEFT BEHIND THE BUSH OR TREE THERE, THAT'S WHITE IS THE SECOND HOUSE.

AND THEN YOU SEE A THIRD HOUSE IS THERE AS WELL.

THEN IMMEDIATELY ACROSS THE STREET, B STREET, UM, THIS, UH, THE HOUSE ON THE CORNER HAS A GARAGE ALONG B STREET.

AND THEN THE NEXT TWO HOUSES NEXT TO THE GARAGE ARE THESE TWO HOUSES.

AND THEN ACROSS THE STREET ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE SITE ON B STREET ARE THESE TWO HOUSES.

UM, UH, THESE ARE ACTUALLY THE SECOND AND THIRD LOTS FROM THE SITE.

UH, THE SECOND ONE BEING ON THE, THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE.

AND THE ONE ON THE LEFT IS THE THIRD LOT FROM THE SITE.

THE FIRST LOT FROM THE SITE IS ACTUALLY VACANT OR, UH, ACTUALLY CORRECTED.

UM, HAS THE, UH, BUILDING IN THE BACKGROUND ON IT.

UM, AND SO, UH, THE SITE THEN IS THE GREEN SPACE TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, BEHIND THOSE, UH, LIKE, CALL IT A SHORT, SPARSE ROAD.

TREES.

UM, THESE ARE THE MEASUREMENTS THAT WERE PROVIDED TO US FOR THE FRONT YARD SETBACK THAT WAS JUST REFERENCED.

UH, AND THEN, UH, THIS IS THE, UH, FINAL SURVEY THAT WAS PRODUCED, UH, USING THOSE MEASUREMENTS.

AND SO TO POINT OUT HERE, UM, THE, THE SETBACKS ARE SHOWN HERE, UH, AS A MINIMUM AND A MAXIMUM DIMENSION BASED ON THOSE MEASUREMENTS THAT WERE TAKEN.

SO ALONG NATIONAL AVENUE, THE MINIMUM IS 38.44 FEET, AND THE MAXIMUM IS 65.08 FEET.

AND THOSE ARE MEASURED FROM THE BACK OF THE CURB, UH, NOT FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, UH, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT PROPERTY LINES ARE ON ALL THE OTHER BLOCKS ON THE BLOCK.

SO WE USE A STANDARD, UM, EITHER WALK SIDEWALK OR CURB MEASUREMENT.

AND THEN, UH, ON B STREET, THE MAXIMUM AND MINIMUM ARE DOWN HERE ON THE TOP OF THE PAGE ON THE LEFT HERE, A MINIMUM OF 22.52 FEET FROM THE BACK OF THE CURVE, OR A MAXIMUM OF 50.3.

AND SO THEY'VE DRAWN THE DASH LINES ACROSS HERE SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE HOUSE IS LOCATED WITHIN THAT RANGE ALONG D STREET.

AND THEN SAME THING ALONG, UM, ALONG NATIONAL.

IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT AS FAR FORWARD AS IT CAN COME ON NATIONAL, UH, BUT WITHIN THE CORRECT AND ALLOWABLE AREA, UH, LOCATION.

ALRIGHT, GONNA MAKE THIS NOW A LITTLE SMALLER.

UH, TO EMULATE THE HISTORIC, UM, RECESSED, UH, BRICK PORTIONS, UM, THROUGHOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

A LOT SMALLER.

UH, THIS HAPPENS TO BE THE FOUNDATION PLAN ON THE LEFT.

UM, NATIONAL AVENUE'S ON THE BOTTOM, ON THE FRONT PORCH HERE, IT'S FOUNDATION, BUT THE MAIN THING TO NOTICE IS THE, UH, THE GARAGE IS, UH, IN LINE WITH THE, UH, CLOSEST FACE OF THE HOUSE ALONG B STREET.

UH, AND THEN THE SECTION ON THE RIGHT IS THEIR STANDARD, TYPICAL SECTION FOR THE HOUSE.

UH, TO NOTICE HERE IS THE, UH, BRICK FACING ON THE CONCRETE BLOCK FOUNDATION.

SO THAT IS

[00:20:01]

A REQUIREMENT.

ALRIGHT, UH, THEN THIS IS THEIR FLOOR PLAN, UM, WHICH SHOWS THEN OUT FRONT THERE'S A, UM, A COVERED PORCH COVERED OPEN PORCH AS RAILING AROUND IT AND STEPS, UH, RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE.

UH, AND OTHER THAN THAT, THAT'S, UH, MORE SIGNIFICANT THINGS.

OH, UH, ALSO SEPARATION BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND THE GARAGE IS EIGHT FEET.

SO, UM, THAT'S ANOTHER REQUIREMENT.

THEN THIS IS THE SECOND FLOOR.

NOT REALLY ANYTHING TO TALK ABOUT THERE.

UM, ALTHOUGH THE HOUSE DOES END UP LOOKING LIKE A ONE AND A HALF STORY, UM, UH, STRUCTURE BECAUSE THEY USE DORMERS FOR THE, FOR THE WINDOWS AS OPPOSED TO A SECOND ACTUAL FULL SECOND FLOOR.

UM, BUT HERE WE SEE THESE ARE THE SIDE ELEVATION, I'M SORRY, THE BACK AND THE FRONT ELEVATIONS.

SO LET'S START WITH THE FRONT DOWN HERE AT THE BOTTOM HERE WE SEE THE, UH, FRONT PORCH AND WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE.

I'LL ACTUALLY MAKE IT BIGGER SINCE WE CAN.

AND THERE YOU GO.

SO, UM, THE, THE ENTIRE FOUNDATION IS WRAPPED WITH BRICK AS MENTIONED IN THE SECTION, BUT ALSO THE PORCHES FOUNDATION.

AND THE ACTUAL STEPS, UH, TO THE PORCH ARE ALL BRICK.

UM, THEN THE, UH, CORNERS AND THE COLUMNS FOR THE, UH, STRUCTURE FOR THE ROOF OF THE PORCH ARE, UH, UM, BRICK PIERS THAT ARE ELEVATED HIGHER.

AND THEN THERE ARE THE, UH, KIND OF ARTS AND CRAFTS, UH, UH, STYLE OF, UM, LET'S SEE, WHAT IS THAT CALLED? ANYWAY, ALMOST LIKE PURE MIDDLE SHADE, UH, COLUMNS.

UH, WE HAVE, UM, A FRONT DOOR WITH, UH, SIDELIGHTS AND A SMALL TRANSOM, UH, THAT HELPS IT MATCH UP WITH THE WINDOWS, THE TOPS OF THE WINDOWS.

UH, ALL THE WINDOWS ARE VERTICAL, YOU CAN SEE.

UH, AND, UM, THE SIDING IS ALL, UM, UH, HARDY BOARD SIDING.

AND YOU CAN SEE WE HAVE, UH, DIFFERENT SIZE D TRIM PIECES SUCH AS THE, UH, WHAT THEY CALL BAND BOARD OR THE SKIRT BOARD.

AT THE BOTTOM HERE, THE CORNER BOARDS ARE ONE BY SIX.

UH, THE BAND BOARD IS ONE BY EIGHT, UH, AND THEN THE ROOFING IS ASPHALT SHINGLE.

LET'S SEE, I THINK THAT'S ABOUT IT FOR NOW.

ON THAT ONE.

OOPS, SORRY.

I GUESS I SHOULD DO THE BACK WHILE I'M ON THAT PAGE.

SO THE BACK, UH, THIS IS ACTUALLY THE, UM, LET'S SAY IF THE GARAGE DOOR IS THE FRONT, THIS IS THE LEFT SIDE OF THE, UM, GARAGE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE.

UH, AND THERE'S A WINDOW IN THE UPPER, UPPER AREA.

UH, AND THEN, UH, THE BACK OF THE HOUSE HAS A SCREENED BACK PORCH.

AND AS REQUIRED, THEY HAVE, UM, PUT THE SCREENING INSIDE THE COLUMNS AND, UH, HANDRAIL, HANDRAILS, UM, FOR THE PORCH.

HERE'S THE SCREEN DOOR HERE AND THE STEPS GOING UP TO THAT.

AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME IN TERMS OF COMMENTS FOR THAT.

ALRIGHT, SO WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT SHEET, WHICH IS THE SIDE ELEVATIONS.

SO THIS IS, UH, LOOKING FROM E STREET.

UM, SO THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, THIS IS THE FRONT PORCH, AND YOU CAN SEE, UH, THE STEPS, UH, COMING UP THERE.

AND THEY ARE ENCLOSED AS, UH, WE'VE REQUIRED IN THE PAST AND, UH, CAN SEE ALL THE VARIOUS, UH, UM, WINDOWS AND TRIM.

AND, UH, FOR THIS, UH, PORTION OF THE HOUSE THAT'S, UM, EXTENDS OUT FARTHER, UH, THERE IS A SPECIAL, UH, SHED ROOF ON TOP OF THAT.

THE, UH, ATTIC HAS A GABLE BENT AT THE TOP.

UM, THIS IS THE BREEZEWAY, THE EIGHT FOOT SPIT SHUT SEPARATION BETWEEN THE TWO IS A BREEZEWAY.

UH, THERE IS A ROOF OVER THAT THAT, UM, UH, EXTENDS TO THE GARAGE.

AND THEN WE CAN SEE THE TWO GARAGE DOORS, THE EXTERIOR LIGHTS THAT ARE, UM, PROPOSED FOR THAT.

UM, OH, AND TO NOTE ALSO IS THAT, UH, ALL OF THE FOUNDATION, UH, UH, PORTIONS HAVE A RECESSED SECTION OF THE BRICK,

[00:25:01]

THEN WE HAVE THE OTHER SIDE FACING THE NEIGHBOR ON THAT SIDE.

AND WE HAVE THEN, SO OF COURSE THE FRONT'S ON THE LEFT, AND THEN WE HAVE, UH, VERTICAL WINDOWS AND A SQUARE WINDOW, WHICH IS ALSO ALLOWED.

THEN, UM, ALL THE VARIOUS ROOF FORMS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE SIDE, BUT SIMILAR TO THE OTHER SIDE, THE, UH, REAR PORCH IS, UH, A BIT OF A WRAPAROUND, UH, REAR PORCH, UH, FOR A SMALL BIT.

AND SO YOU CAN SEE IT THAT, UM, ON THIS ELEVATION AS WELL.

THIS THEN IS THE BACK OF THE GARAGE HERE.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE WERE REQUESTING WAS, UH, NONE OF THE DRAWINGS WERE SHOWING THE FOURTH SIDE OF THE GARAGE NOR THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE THAT WAS CUT OFF FROM THE OTHER ELEVATION.

SO THEY PROVIDED THAT HERE.

SO THIS IS THE FOURTH SIDE OF THE GARAGE.

IT'S NOTHING TO WRITE HOME ABOUT, BUT, UH, WE HAVE, UH, OUR, UH, ENTRY DOOR, UH, AND THE SIDING, THE BRICK CONTINUES ALL THE WAY AROUND ALL FOUR SIDES OF THE GARAGE.

AND THEN FOR THE HOUSE ITSELF, AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE THIS IS THAT ROOF CONNECTION FOR THE BREEZEWAY.

UH, AND YOU CAN SEE EVERYTHING ELSE IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.

AND NOW YOU CAN SEE THE STAIRWAY THAT WAS HIDDEN BY THE GARAGE BEFORE.

ALRIGHT, SO, UM, THESE WERE SOME SLIDES THAT WERE PREPARED FOR PREVIOUS, UM, DISCUSSION.

WE, WE CAN REFER TO.

THEY'RE IN HERE TO REFER TO THEM IF NECESSARY.

BUT I THINK, UH, WE'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH ALL THAT ABOUT THE SETBACKS AND THE, UH, LOCATION OF THE, OF THE GARAGE.

UM, OOPS.

WHOA, WHAT HAPPENED? SORRY ABOUT THAT.

WALL, UM, THAT'S ONLY A COUPLE INCHES HIGH, AND THEY'RE LOOKING TO REPLACE THAT.

SO WE HAVE THEN ALSO, UM, ANOTHER ITEM FROM THE DESIGN REVIEW MEETING WAS THE, UH, LANDSCAPE PLAN NEEDED TO BE UPDATED TO THE, UH, TO THE NEW, UH, UM, SITE PLAN.

AND SO THAT WAS DONE HERE.

AND ALSO WE HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE LOCATION OF THE HVAC UNIT, SUCH THAT IT WOULD REMAIN OUT OF THE PRIMARY AREA OF VISUAL CONCERN, UH, WHICH IS THE LIMIT OF, WHICH IS THE FACE OF THE, UH, HOUSE ON THE SIDE.

SO AS LONG AS THESE TWO UNITS ARE BEHIND THAT FACE OF THAT HOUSE, THESE TWO UNITS WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE THERE.

IN ANY CASE, THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE SCREENED FROM PUBLIC VIEW.

AND SO THEY'RE SHOWING THE PLANTINGS, UH, AROUND HERE FOR, UH, THAT SCREENING AS WELL AS THE REST OF THE PLANTINGS FOR, UH, THEIR LANDSCAPE PLAN.

UM, THE, UH, PLANTS THAT ARE SHOWN THERE, HERE'S THE LEGEND.

UM, THEY'RE PROPOSING A, UH, LEGGE, RECURVE, UH, SET, 3, 2, 4, 4 PLANTS AROUND HERE FOR THAT.

AND THOSE ARE RELATIVELY LARGE AND THICK, UH, PLANTS.

UM, HOWEVER, I'M TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO USE DIFFERENT PLANTS BECAUSE THOSE ARE PROBLEMATIC FOR OTHER REASONS, THEY'RE NOT, UH, IN VIOLATION OF, IF THEY USE 'EM, THAT WOULD BE FINE, FINE AS FAR AS REGULATIONS GO.

BUT, UH, THEY CAN BE POISONOUS TO PETS AND OTHER THINGS.

SO, UH, THEY'RE LOOKING INTO MAYBE CHANGING THAT.

UM, SOME OF THE OTHER ONES, THIS IS THE, UM, UH, WINTER GEM, UH, BOXWOOD.

UH, THE NEXT ONE IS ANOTHER LEG RUM.

UH, SO THEY MIGHT BE LOOKING AT CHANGING THAT ONE.

UM, THEY HAVE MOLY GRASS, THEY HAVE HYDRANGEAS, THEY HAVE KNOCKOUT ROSES.

AND THEN THE BED ITSELF WILL BE A MULCH BED, AND THE EDGE WILL NOT HAVE ANY MATERIAL PER SE.

IT'LL JUST BE THE CUT.

UM, THE LAWN WILL BE CUT ALONG THAT EDGE.

SO, LET'S SEE THEN, UM, THEY PROVIDED SOME INFORMATION AND IMAGES OF THE MATERIALS THEY'RE USING.

WE WENT OVER THIS BEFORE TOO, DECIDING THE PORCH CEILINGS, HANDRAILS COLUMNS, ROOFING WINDOWS, FRONT DOOR, BACK DOOR, DOOR TO THE BREEZEWAY, GARAGE DOORS.

UH, THEY HAD AN ISSUE REGARDING AN EXISTING KNEE

[00:30:01]

SO THIS IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR TONIGHT, WAS THE CHANGE TO THE, UM, FENCING PROPOSAL SUCH THAT, UM, IT SHOWED, UH, THAT THE FENCING WOULD NOT, THE, THE FENCING WOULD NOT, UH, PROJECT INTO THE PRIMARY A VC AND THEREFORE COULD REMAIN UP TO SIX FEET IN HEIGHT, UM, FROM THE CORNER OF THE GARAGE OVER TO THE NEIGHBOR'S, UH, PROPERTY LINE, UH, ON THEIR SIDE OF THE, THAT PROPERTY LINE TO CONNECT TO THE NEIGHBOR'S EXISTING WALL, WHICH IS THIS GRAY LINE HERE.

AND I BELIEVE ALSO THIS ONE.

AND THEN ALSO PROPOSING A NEW FENCE ALONG THIS, UH, PROPERTY LINE.

AND THEN BACK TO THE HOUSE AND ALL OF WHICH IS, UH, OUTSIDE THE PRIMARY A, B, C.

THIS GREEN LINE HERE IS SOME, UH, A EDGE OF SOME SORT, UM, OR SOME LANDSCAPING FEATURES.

ALRIGHT, SO THIS IS THE PROPOSED FENCE THAT THEY HAVE FOR ALONG THE NEIGHBOR'S, UM, HOUSE, UH, TO THE WEST OF THE PROPERTY.

UM, I'M GONNA SAY NORTH, NORTH, SORRY, TO THE NORTH OF THE PROPERTY.

UM, THEY'RE PROPOSING A FIVE FOOT, FIVE FOOT TALL, UH, AND ONE BY SIX PICKETS, STAGGERED, ET CETERA.

AGAIN, WE SAW THIS AT DESIGN REVIEW AND THIS IS THEIR, UH, UH, FIRST ON THE LEFT, UPPER LEFT IS THE EXISTING, LEMME MAKE THIS FIGURE THE EXISTING, UH, CONDITION.

AND THERE'S THAT LITTLE KNEE WALL THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE LITTLE VINES GROWING ON IT THERE, THAT'LL BE REMOVED.

AND THEN THE, UH, NEW FENCING WILL GO IN, UM, LOOKING KIND OF LIKE THAT, BUT NOT EXACTLY.

AND THEN THEY WANT TO DO THAT FOR ESSENTIALLY ALONG THAT ENTIRE SIDE THERE.

UH, THEN THE OTHER, THE OTHER, UH, ALONG THE OTHER PROPERTY LINE, UM, THEY'RE LOOKING TO EXTEND WHAT IS THE EXISTING, THE SAME KIND OF, UH, UM, DESIGN FOR IT THAT IS CURRENTLY EXISTING TO CONTINUE THAT, UH, ALONG UNTIL THEY REACH THEIR LIMIT OF, UH, A WALL, THE WALL.

SO IT'S A MASONRY WITH A GAP FILLED IN WITH, UH, SOME ROT, IRON, AND THEN MASONRY, AND THEN CONTINUES IN THAT PATTERN TO THE END.

UM, LET'S SEE.

AND THAT WAS ABOUT REUSING THE MATERIAL FOR THE UNDER PORCH.

SO, UM, AND THEY LISTED SOME OF THE GUIDELINES HERE AND SOME OF THE REASONINGS FOR ALL THAT.

OKAY, SO, UM, WE'RE READY WITH YOUR, WITH OUR STAFF REPORT WHENEVER YOU ARE.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

DO THE APPLICANTS HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT PRESENTATION? NO, SIR.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

UH, ANY ISSUES WITH COMPLETENESS ON THE APPLICATION? THE FENCE MATERIAL WAS INCLUDED IN THE PACKET FRIDAY, SO WE'VE HAD AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE IT.

NO ISSUES.

IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT CHOOSES TO SPEAK THAT HAS RECEIVED, UH, NOTICE ANYONE WHO CHOOSES TO SPEAK THAT DID NOT RECEIVE NOTICE? CAN I ASK A QUESTION? PARDON? WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION? I, I ACTUALLY DUNNO WHAT THAT MEANS.

IF YOU'RE WITHIN A HUNDRED FEET OF THE PROPERTY, YOU WOULD'VE RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE CITY.

OKAY, I APOLOGIZE.

AND SO THOSE PEOPLE, BY DEFINITION HAVE STANDING, UH, AND NO OPPONENTS I GATHER EITHER.

NO ONE ELSE HAS BEEN SWORN IN TO TESTIFY.

UM, I GUESS WE'RE READY FOR THE STAFF FINDINGS, MR. SHELLEY.

FOR DEVELOPMENT PATTERN 2.1, 0.12 AND THREE FOR UTILITIES, 2.3 0.1, TWO, THREE AND SIX FOR LANDSCAPING.

WAS PREPARING FOR BEING READY FOR ANY COMMENTS.

ALRIGHT, HERE WE GO.

UH, THIS IS THE STAFF REPORT FOR THE PROJECT FOR THE APPLICANT THOMAS L. EDWARDS CONSTRUCTION, INCORPORATED AT 1219 NATIONAL AVENUE.

THERE OBVIOUSLY IS NO HISTORIC PROPERTY NAME.

UM, IT IS A VACANT PROPERTY.

UH, NO OTHER DESCRIPTIONS FROM THE, UH, NATIONAL REGISTER OR THE SANDBAG BOOK.

UH, AT THIS IS A PROJECT AT 1219 NATIONAL AVENUE TO INCLUDE A NEW INFILL, 1.5 STORY, HOUSE AND DETACHED GARAGE.

STAFF SUBMITS THE FOLLOWING HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES AS APPROPRIATE TO THIS APPLICATION

[00:35:01]

2.4 0.1234 FOR FENCES AND GARDEN WALLS, 2.5, 0.1, TWO AND THREE FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, 2.6 0.1 AND TWO FOR SIGNAGE, 2.8 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND FOUR FOR DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1, 1, 2, 4, AND FIVE FOR INFO CONSTRUCTION, 3.4 0.1, TWO, THREE, AND FOUR FOR FOUNDATIONS, 4.1, 2, 3, 4, AND SIX FOR WALL STRAND, TRIM AND ORNAMENTATION.

2.4, SORRY, 4.2 0.4 AND FIVE FOR WINDOWS, DOORS AND OPENINGS.

4.32 AND THREE FOR ENTRANCES, 4.4 0.4 AND FIVE FOR ROOFS.

4.5 0.6 FOR MASONRY, 5.5 AND SIX FOR PAINT.

5.4 2, 3, 4, AND SIX.

AND CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, 5.5 1, 2, 3, 5, AND SIX.

STATEMENTS OF REASON BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION IN STATUTE JUDGMENT.

R ONE, THE PROJECT IS IN THE TIGHT LEAD DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.

TWO.

THE PROJECT IS AN INFILL 1.5 STORY, HOUSE AND DETACHED GARAGE.

THREE.

THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE GUIDELINES.

FOUR.

THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BILLING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.

AND FIVE, THE PROJECT IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES AND THE HPC MAY WANT TO CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.

THE COA IS NOT VALID UNTIL REVISED PLANS, ACCORDING TO THE CHANGES AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING ARE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL BY STAFF OR THE HPC PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS DIVISION.

IT'S END OF OUR STAFF REPORT.

DID THE APPLICANT HAVE ANY FINAL COMMENTS? NO, SIR.

UH, CONVINCING UNITS FOR THE AIR CONDITIONING AND, UH, ALL, ALL THAT HAS BEEN SPECIFIED THIS EVENING.

AND WE APPRECIATE ALL THE TIMES YOU SPENT WITH US, UH, IN DESIGN REVIEW BECAUSE OF THAT.

AND THAT'S NOT SUBJECT TO WHAT IS VIDEOTAPED AND, AND PART OF THE RECORD OF THE HEARING.

I DO WANT TO BRIEFLY GO THROUGH THE MATRIX WE HAVE FOR INFILL CONSTRUCTION, JUST SO WE ARE AWARE OF SOME OF THE THINGS WE CONSIDERED AT THE DESIGN REVIEW AND EXPLAINED TO YOU AND GOT YOUR RESPONSE AND, UH, MET THE GUIDELINES THAT WE EXPLAINED.

SO START WITH SITE AND SETTING.

WE MOVED THE BUILDING AROUND A LOT.

WERE THERE ANY COMMENTS THERE, ANY LINGERING CONCERNS? WELL, I THINK IN REGARD TO DEVELOPMENT PATTERN, WE HAD A GOOD BIT OF CONVERSATION OF THE DIFFERENT POSITIONS OF THE OTHER RESIDE ON THE STREET AND, UM, HOW THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION, UH, AS PRESENTED TONIGHT IS, IS IN ALIGNMENT WITH THAT.

SO IT WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THAT CHARACTER AND INCLUDED IN THEIR FENCES AND GUARD WALLS.

AND WE'VE HAD EXPLANATION TONIGHT OF WHAT YOU'VE CHOSEN TO DO ON THE FENCE, UH, DESIGN ATTRIBUTES, SCALE MASS PROPORTION FORM AND RHYTHM, TEXTURE DETAILS.

ANY COMMENTS? UH, RIVERSIDE, UH, HAS A LOT OF STRUCTURES THAT REFLECT THIS CRAFTSMAN'S STYLE.

UH, I THINK THAT, UH, WHAT'S, WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED CERTAINLY, CERTAINLY MEETS, UH, YOU KNOW, MASS SCALE PROPORTION, DIMENSION DETAILS.

UH, IT'S A CERTAINLY A, UH, I THINK IT'S A GOOD REFLECTION, UH, OF, UH, THE CHARACTER OF THE NEWBURY HISTORIC DISTRICT.

AND ANY FURTHER COMMENTS ON DESIGN COMPONENTS SUCH AS THE FOUNDATION, THE WINDOWS, DOORS, AND OPENINGS ROOF.

I THINK THAT YOUR EXPLANATION PROBABLY COVERED THAT.

MATERIALS ARE GENERALLY, UH, SUBSTITUTE CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS BECAUSE IT IS NEW INFILL CONSTRUCTION, BUT THERE STILL IS, UH, WOOD, EXCUSE ME, UH, SUB THE CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS ARE STILL BRICKS, MASONRY THERE.

SO ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THAT? OKAY.

SO THEN ANY DISCUSSION BY THE MEMBERS? UH, ONLY THAT, UH, I THINK LAST MEETING WE GOT A LITTLE HUNG UP ON NOT HAVING THE SETBACKS S NAILED DOWN.

AND, AND WE'VE, UH, ACHIEVED THAT TONIGHT.

ALSO, AT SOME POINT, THE, UH, GARAGE HAD TO BE REPOSITIONED IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE, UH, THE MASSING OF THE PRIMARY RESIDENCE.

AND WE HAD AN AREA VISUAL CONCERN PROBLEM, AND THAT'S BEEN RESOLVED.

UM, FENCING.

WE HAD A FEW LOOSE ENDS THERE.

AND SO NOW WE'RE ON OUR OWN PROPERTY AS WELL AS WE'VE SPECIFIED WHAT TYPES OF FENCE SHOULD OCCUR IN WHAT LOCATIONS.

AND THEN, UH, UH, LASTLY WE HAD A PRETTY GOOD CONVERSATION ABOUT THE SCREENING OF THE, AND THE LOCATION OF THE, UM,

[00:40:02]

YEAH, I WOULD AGREE.

I THINK THOSE WERE THE FOUR ISSUES THAT WE REALLY, UM, TALKED MOST ABOUT.

AND THOSE HAVE ALL BEEN WITH THIS APPLICATION THAT HAS ALL BEEN RESOLVED AS WELL.

THANK, IS ANYBODY READY FOR A MOTION THEN? UH, MR. CHAIRMAN? LET'S SEE.

I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, UH, IF I CAN FIND THE SHEET.

I'D LIKE TO MAKE A, UH, UM, MAKE, MAKE A MOTION, UH, THAT WE FIND THE APPLICATION FOR 12 19 12 19, UH, NATIONAL AVENUE TO BE NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEW BRUIN'S.

CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTIONS 15 DASH FOUR 11 TO 15 DASH 4 29 AND NEW BRUIN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT APPLICABLE GUIDELINES 2.2, UH, UNDER UTILITIES 2.3, 2.3 2.33, 2.36.

LANDSCAPING 2.4 2.42, 2.4 0.3 2.44 FENCES AND GUARD LAWS.

2.5 2.2 0.3.

ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, 2.6 0.2 0.62.

UH, SIGNAGE 2.8 0.1 2.8 0.2 2.8 0.3 2.8.

UH, DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1, 3.2 3.4 3.5 IN ENTAIL CONSTRUCTION, 3.41, 3.4 0.2, 3.4 0.3 0.4 0.4 FOUNDATIONS, 4.4 0.346.

WALLS, TRIM AND LAMENTATION.

4.4.

4.4 0.34.

ENTRANCES, 4.4 0.45.

ROOFS 4.5 0.6 OR UH, FIVE, UH, MASONRY.

5.5 0.6.

PAINT 5.4 5.4 0.3 5.4 0.5 0.46.

CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, 5.51.

5.52.

5.53.

5.5 0.5 5.5 0.6.

FINDINGS OF FACT, THE PROJECT IS IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.

THE PROJECT IS, UH, AN INFILL, UH, STORY AND A HALF WITH A DETACHED GARAGE.

THE, UH, PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE GUIDELINES.

AND I'D LIKE TO ADD THAT THEY ALSO REFLECT THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT.

UH, THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED AND COMMENTED ON THE PROJECT, AND THE PROJECT IS NOT IN CONGRESS WITH THE GUIDELINES, UH, FOR THE CONDITIONS.

SINCE WE DID NOT, UH, SINCE WE DID NOT, UH, IDENTIFY ANY CHANGES THAT NEEDED TO BE MADE TO THE APPLICATION PRESENTED.

UH, I'D LIKE TO ADD THE CONDITION THAT IF THERE ARE ANY, ANY, UH, CHANGES THAT NEED TO OCCUR AS THE PROJECT STARTS AND MOVES FORWARD, UH, YOU NEED TO BRING THOSE CHANGES TO THE HPC STAFF AND THE STAFF WILL DECIDE, UH, WHETHER THAT NEEDS TO COME IN FRONT OF THE HPC.

SECOND IS THE MOTION, THE SECOND? ANY DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.

AND WE HAVE A VOTE ON THIS.

ISSUING THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

UH, MOTION TO ISSUE THE COA.

SO MOVE SECOND, PLEASE.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.

[00:45:01]

AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WORKING WITH US.

YEAH, IT'S A GREAT DESIGN.

IT'S A GOOD, IT'LL BE A GOOD PROJECT.

MY GOSH.

WHOLE AUDIENCE.

IF EVERYBODY LEAVES, DO WE ALL GET TO GO HOME? .

WOW.

SO THEY WEREN'T HERE FOR FIVE.

I GUESS NOT.

UM, MOVING ON WITH THE AGENDA.

[6.B. 500 Queen St. – Continued from previous meeting: to include a new infill 2-story building with a 2-story detached garage and a parking lot. – still needs the Special Use Permit; recommend continuing until after the SUP hearing for this project.]

500 QUEEN STREET.

DO WE HAVE ANY APPLICANT HERE AT ALL? WE DO.

NOT THAT, NO.

THAT, UH, APPLICATION WAS CONTINUED BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO ISSUES WITH, UH, THE PROPERTY THAT NEED TO GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR, UH, THEIR CONSIDERATION.

AND THAT SHOULD OCCUR AT THE END OF THIS MONTH AND THEY WOULD THEN BE BACK, BUT WE'RE NOT SURE YET.

UM, I WAS TRYING TO GET AHOLD OF, UH, THE STAFF TO FIND OUT IF THEY'RE ON THE AGENDA FOR THIS MONTH.

'CAUSE THERE'S, UH, DEADLINES THAT ARE WEEKS AHEAD OF THE MEETING, SO I'M NOT QUITE SURE IF THEY'RE ACTUALLY GONNA BE ON THE AGENDA IN A WEEK.

WELL, BUT WE, WE STILL NEED TO DO A MOTION TO FOR THIS MONTH TO CONTINUE.

YEP.

AND SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT SINCE WE DON'T KNOW TO CONTINUE TO THE, THE, THE, UH, NEXT MEETING, WHICH IS AUGUST 20TH.

AUGUST 20TH.

SECOND IN THIS LOCATION.

IN THE SAME LOCATION.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.

AND JUST PLEASE INFORM THE, UH, APPLICANT, UH, YES.

OF THAT CONTINUATION.

YEP.

IS THERE ANY OLD BUSINESS? DO WE HAVE AN ITEM ON THE NEW BUSINESS DISSOLUTION OF WORK GROUPS, COMMITTEES AND, OH, WAIT, EXCUSE, DID YOU WANT TO ASK ABOUT PUBLIC COMMENT FIRST? I'M SORRY.

HOW COULD I MISS ? PUBLIC COMMENT.

WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? THANK YOU.

SO DO

[8. GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS]

I'M JUST PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF.

SO HERE AND SKIP, JUST PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND ADDRESS.

UM, MY NAME IS RE BLISS.

I LIVE IN WARD ONE, UM, SEVEN 11 P*****K STREET.

UM, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

UM, I SAW ON THE AGENDA THAT YOU GUYS ARE GONNA DISSOLVE THE WORK GROUPS AND SUBCOMMITTEES, UM, THAT DOES REQUIRE A CHANGE IN RULES OF PROCEDURE, WHICH I SAW IN THE PACKET.

I WAS WONDERING, UM, WITH THE ENABLING STATUTES BEING OUT OF DATE, WHY DID YOU GUYS CHOOSE NOT TO MAKE THAT UPDATE WHILE YOU WERE MAKING THE OTHER UPDATES TO THE RULES OF PROCEDURE? THE UPDATE TO THE RULES OF PROCEDURE IS NOT AN UPDATE TO THE ORDINANCE OR THE GUIDELINES.

NO, NO, THAT'S CORRECT.

BUT IN YOUR, THE PACKET.

SO THE QUESTION IS, UM, YOU HAVE A PACKET AND IT'S KIND OF TOWARD THE BACK WITH YOUR, UM, HPC.

IT'S CALLED THE POLICIES AND RULES OF PROCEDURE DOCUMENT.

THAT IS WHERE YOUR ENABLING STATUTES ARE LISTED.

SO THE THINGS THAT GIVE YOU THE POWER TO DO WHAT YOU DO, UM, THOSE HAVE BEEN OUT OF DATE.

I THINK I HAD MENTIONED IT BEFORE AND IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF CURIOSITY.

SINCE 2021, UM, WITH THE RULES OF PROCEDURE UPDATE THAT YOU'RE MAKING TO DISSOLVE THE WORK GROUPS, UM, I'M WONDERING WHY YOU CHOSE NOT TO UPDATE THOSE RULES OF PROCEDURE, OR PARDON ME, UPDATE THOSE ENABLING STATUTES IN YOUR RULES OF PROCEDURE AT THE SAME TIME AS YOU'RE MAKING OTHER CHANGES.

I'LL HAVE TO ASK STAFF TO COMMENT ON THAT.

UH, I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE THEY WERE IN THERE.

UM, DO FOR REFERENCE.

UM, AND IT WOULD BE GREAT.

LIKE ANY CHANGES, GREAT CHANGE.

UM, THE RULES OF PROCEDURE, I ACTUALLY SENT A DOCUMENT, THE SURPRISE THAT HAS THE RED LINE.

UM, YOU HAVE THE RULES OF PROCEDURE IN YOUR PACKET AND, UM, IT'S JUST, UH, I THINK IT'S ON PAGE TWO.

IT'S ENABLING STATUTES.

THEY'RE JUST OUTDATED AND THE NEW ONES NEED TO BE PUT IN.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE NEXT MEETING, BUT THAT WOULD BE AWESOME TO UPDATE SO PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY LOOK UP THE ENABLING STATUTES.

SO THAT'S GREAT.

IT WASN'T INTENTIONAL, IT WAS JUST EVERYONE HAS TOO MUCH WORK TO DO.

THE GENERAL COMMENT OF WHAT YOU HEARD AT THE LAST MEETING, I STILL INTEND WE WE'RE GOING TO UPDATE THE GUIDELINES AND MAKE THEM STANDARDS.

WE'RE GOING TO REVIEW THE RULES OF PROCEDURES AND MAKE ANY UPDATES THAT SEEM APPROPRIATE.

YEAH, I WAS JUST, BUT WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED THEM AS A COMMITTEE.

I WAS JUST CURIOUS AS TO IF THAT WAS AN INTENTIONAL CHANGE BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN OUTDATED SINCE 21.

THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, UM, YOU ARE DISSOLVING ALL OF YOUR WORK GROUPS.

[00:50:01]

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU WOULD SHARE WHY YOU DECIDED TO DISSOLVE YOUR WORK GROUPS, WHETHER THAN INCLUDE THE PUBLIC IN THE WORK GROUP, SPECIFICALLY THE GUIDELINE WORK GROUP.

WE'RE, WE'RE ELIMINATING THE WORK GROUPS BECAUSE THEY WERE ESTABLISHED BY OUR RESOLUTION SOME YEARS AGO.

I WAS NOT HERE WAS DURING MY BREAK.

UM, AND SO WE'RE NOW SAYING THAT BECAUSE WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS WHEN WE HAVE MEETINGS OF THOSE WORK GROUPS, IN ORDER TO FOSTER SOME COLLABORATION WITHOUT HAVING A MEETING, WE'RE GOING TO DO AWAY WITH THE WORK GROUPS.

AND, UH, WE STILL NEED TO DO THE WORK.

AND FOR INSTANCE, WE STILL NEED TO DISCUSS DESIGN, UH, DEMOLITION BY DIG, NEGLECT HOUSES.

WE STILL NEED TO DISCUSS UPDATES, BUT MY OPINION IS IT'S IN A LESS FORMAL SETTING WITH EXCHANGE AND COLLABORATION.

WE MIGHT GET MORE DONE MORE QUICKLY THAN EVERY TIME HAVING TO HAVE A MEETING AND PUBLISH A MEETING AND WHO'S COMING AND EVERYTHING.

MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION? YEAH.

UM, I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE, UH, MS. MELISSA'S QUESTION.

ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE YET TO GET TO IS ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE REVISION TO THE RULES PROCEDURE.

I THINK WE'RE GONNA PROBABLY HAVE A DISCUSSION AND SOME QUESTIONS RELATED TO THAT THAT WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.

SO INSTEAD OF HAVING TO DO IT TWICE, NO, THAT'S FINE.

BUT JUST, JUST TO RE REITERATE, I INTEND TO DO WHAT WE OUTLINED AT THE LAST MEETING.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

I THINK WE, WE HAD 76 RESPONSES TO THE SURVEY AND 23 PEOPLE GAVE THEIR NAME AND SAID THAT THEY WOULD LOVE TO ENGAGE WITH THE GUIDELINES.

UM, THEN MY LAST IS JUST A COMMENT THAT I'VE BEEN SHOWING UP AT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR MEETINGS, AS YOU KNOW, SINCE APRIL 2ND.

AND, UM, DESPITE MEETING SOME RESISTANCE, I HAVE CONTINUED TO ENGAGE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S ALL BY MYSELF.

SOMETIMES, UM, ON MY REQUEST IS THE SAME.

I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE THE GUIDELINES UPDATED USING BEST PRACTICES, TRANSPARENCY AND PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADD ONE THING TO THAT.

UM, AND THAT IS A PROCESS THAT DOESN'T TAKE A YEAR.

UM, THERE WERE TWO THINGS THAT WERE NOTED IN THE LAST MEETING, AND I APPRECIATE THAT YOU ADDRESSED.

PLANNING TO UPDATE THE GUIDELINES.

UM, ONE THING YOU SAID IT WOULD TAKE A YEAR TO DO AS A RESIDENCE AND ALSO A STAKEHOLDER IN WARD ONE AND HAVING TO LIVE UNDER THE GUIDELINES, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO MAKE SENSE THAT, UM, CHANGING GUIDELINES AND PHASES ISN'T A GOOD OPTION.

UM, THE CHAIR ALSO DID SAY THAT THE BOARD, UM, DID NOT MAKE PIECEMEAL CHANGES.

UM, IF YOU DO A SEARCH WITH A CITY CLERK OF GUIDELINE CHANGES, THERE'S BEEN AT LEAST THREE PIECEMEAL CHANGES SINCE 2020.

SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO CORRECT THAT FOR THE RECORD.

UM, THERE'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO DO A PHASED APPROACH.

UM, I DID FIELD THE SURVEY WITH, UM, JUST SOME RESOURCES THAT I HAD.

I'D BE HAPPY TO SHARE RESULTS, UH, IF ANYONE CARES TO SEE THE RESULTS.

UM, FOR A PHASED APPROACH, YOU COULD USE A SURVEY BASED TOOL AND MEETINGS AND YOU COULD DO ROLLING CHANGES FOR REALLY, REALLY INEXPENSIVELY USING EXISTING MEETINGS.

THAT INVOLVES A BROAD GROUP OF THE PUBLIC, WHICH AGAIN, I THINK YOU GUYS HAVE TALKED ABOUT ENGAGEMENT IN THE PAST AND TRANSPARENCY IN THE PAST AND INCLUSION IN THE PAST.

SO IF YOU WANNA HEAR THE RESULTS, I'D BE HAPPY TO SHARE THEM WITH YOU.

IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN ANY OF THE TOOLS TO DO THAT.

I'D ALSO BE HAPPY TO SHARE THE TOOLS AND THE PRICING.

I WOULD ASK YOU GIVE COMMISSIONER WIKA AND MYSELF SOME TIME TO COME UP WITH WHAT WE THINK MIGHT BE HAPPENING GOING FORWARD, AND THEN WILL START TALKING ABOUT THAT PROBABLY AT THE NEXT MEETING.

WE'LL CERTAINLY TALK ABOUT IT, A DESIGN REVIEW, AND WE'LL CONSULT WITH MR. SHELLEY, WE'LL CONSULT WITH THE STAFF ATTORNEY AND I'M NOT ONE TO GO SLOWLY.

UM, SO WE'LL SEE.

THAT'S GREAT.

IF YOU WANT, UM, I'LL BE AT THE NEXT DESIGN REVIEW MEETING AND I'M HAPPY TO SHARE ANY INFORMATION IN THAT MEETING OR PRIOR TO, SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

YEAH, WELL WE'VE GOT SOME GREAT RESOURCES.

WE HAVE MR. THOMPSON, WE HAVE MIKE, WE HAVE TRIP.

CAN STILL ANSWER THE PHONE IF WE HAVE A GREAT QUESTION.

AND SO, AND RICHARD IS ALWAYS A GREAT RESOURCE.

SO, UH,

[00:55:01]

SO OUTSIDE OF THE BOARD, THERE'S A BIG GROUP OF STAKEHOLDERS THAT HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE RULES THAT ARE HAPPY TO HELP.

AND WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

APPRECIATE IT.

SO, I'M SORRY I SKIPPED OVER THAT.

NEW BUSINESS THEN DISSOLUTION OF WORK GROUPS, COMMITTEES, AND SUBCOMMITTEES.

OH, I'M SORRY.

YOU HAVE A COMMENT? I HAVE, I HAVE A TECHNICAL QUESTION.

UM, I AND MR. SHELLER MAY BE ABLE, THE ONE BE THE ONE TO ANSWER IT.

I AM RACING LOTS OF CLOCKS, SO I WAS HOPING TO GO, UM, TO THE LIBRARY AND PRINT OUT SOME THINGS TO DISTRIBUTE Y'ALL.

'CAUSE I WASN'T ABLE TO PUT THEM ON A DRIVE.

AND THE LIBRARY HAD A BROKEN WATER MAIN TODAY.

SO THEY'RE CLOSED.

AND I WONDER IF THERE IS A WAY TO PUT A CAMERA, UM, OR TO HOLD AN IPAD IN FRONT OF A CAMERA SO THAT I COULD JUST SHARE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS WITH YOU ALL AT SOME POINT LATER THIS EVENING.

I HAVE NO IDEA.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD EVEN POSSIBLY BE ABLE TO BE DONE.

I COULD ALSO, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL CELL PHONE TAKES, UH, TEXT MESSAGES.

I COULD FORWARD THEM, I COULD SEND 'EM TO YOU IF THAT SOMEHOW WOULD WORK.

SO, UM, UH, WE HAVE A DEVICE THERE, UM, TO DO HARD COPY TO, TO PROJECT THAT WHITE ONE OVER THERE, BUT I WOULD'VE TO OPERATE IT.

UM, OR A FLASH DRIVE THAT WOULD WORK.

I, I DON'T HAVE A FLASH DRIVE AND I DON'T HAVE PAPER.

I HAVE.

SO THOSE ARE BOTH PROBLEMS. I'M RACING.

WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS WONDERING IF, IF SOMEHOW THE IMAGE ON THE SCREEN, IT MAY BE POSSIBLE THAT THAT DEVICE THAT DOES THE PAPER WILL ALSO DO YOUR, UH, YOUR WE'LL FIND OUT WHEN WE GET THERE.

MY APOLOGIES.

I FIGURED THIS WAS THE BEST TIME TO ASK IT.

YEP.

IS THE, IS MR, HE'S THE OWNER OF 7 26 P*****K STREET.

SO DISSOLUTION OF WORK GROUPS, COMMITTEES, AND SUBCOMMITTEES, THERE WERE FOUR WORK GROUPS, WHICH WERE, UH, HISTORIC PRESERVATION AWARD GUIDELINES UPDATES, HISTORIC PROPERTY OWNER SUPPORT GROUP, AND, UH, DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT WORK GROUP.

THAT'S COMING UP AT THE END.

PERFECT.

YEAH, SO HE WAS JUST TAKING THE OPPORTUNITY TO CLARIFY BEFORE YOU,

[9.A. Dissolution of Work Groups, Committees, and Subcommittees]

AND THOSE TASKS ARE STILL NECESSARY, OR AT LEAST THE DISCUSSION, BUT BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF STAFF TIME IT WOULD TAKE TO PROVIDE FOR MEETING NOTICES MINUTES, AND WE'RE ONLY DEALING WITH TWO TYPICALLY MEMBERS OF THE HPC THAT ARE ATTENDING THESE MEETINGS, NOTHING CAN OCCUR.

UH, SO THEY ALWAYS WOULD HAVE TO BRING FORWARD TO THE HPC ANYTHING THAT WAS PROPOSED.

SO, UM, THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE STATE, THE CITY ATTORNEY'S STAFF IS TO DO AWAY WITH THOSE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T COLLABORATE AMONGST OURSELVES ONE-ON-ONE, WHATEVER.

HOW ABOUT THIS? HOW ABOUT THAT? UH, AND THEN ULTIMATELY BRING THOSE THINGS WHEN THEY HAVE A FORM TO THE FULL DESIGN REVIEW, PERHAPS FIRST, AND THEN ULTIMATELY TO THE HBC.

AND THEN EVEN AFTER THE HBC BRINGS SOMETHING FORWARD, WE'RE OBLIGATED TO GO TO DEVELOPING SERVICES WITH ANY MAJOR CHANGES.

SO I THINK, UH, THERE'LL BE OPPORTUNITIES FOR TRANSPARENCY THERE WITHOUT HAVING THESE WORK GROUPS.

UH, AND SO ANY COMMENTS THERE FROM THE STAFF ATTORNEY OR NO, SIR, MR. SHELLEY? UH, NO.

SO I THINK WE'LL STILL CONTINUE, TRY TO CONTINUE WHAT WE'RE DOING.

UH, THE, HIS, THE SUPPORT GROUP FOR, UH, HISTORIC PROPERTY OWNER SUPPORT GROUP REALLY FOCUSED ON DRY BOROUGH, WHICH IS NOT PART OF THE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, NOT PART OF OUR PURVIEW.

SO, UH, THAT IS ONE THAT WAS JUST REALLY DONE TO TRY TO HELP THAT COMMUNITY.

SO WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO CORRECT THAT, UM, UH, YOUR PURVIEW IS, UM, FOR ALL HISTORIC PRESERVATION IN, IN THE ENTIRE CITY.

UM, IT'S JUST THAT IT'S NOT THE PURVIEW OR THE JURISDICTION OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES.

CHAIR AS WELL AS, UH, JAMIE TODAY, UH, WE PUT TOGETHER THE RULES OF PROCEDURE, UH, BACK IN 2014 15, BECAUSE REALLY WE REALLY HAD NOTHING OTHER THAN JUST A VERY BASIC, UH, THAT I WOULDN'T, I'M NOT EVEN SURE YOU COULD CALL IT OUTLINE AS FAR AS WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING AS, AS A PUBLIC BOARD.

IT'S NOT PART OF THE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.

AND THAT HAPPENS TO BE IN A NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO WITH THAT BRIEF DISCUSSION, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS AMONGST THE, UH, MEMBERS, MR. CHAIRMAN? JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEXT ABOUT, UH, KINDA THE, THE POINT THAT WE'RE AT AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE, WHAT I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO DO, HAVING TALK WITH YOU AND THE VICE

[01:00:01]

WE HAD NUMEROUS REVIEWS OF OUR DRAFT BY THE COMMISSIONERS TAKING THEIR INPUT.

UH, WE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY WHO ACTUALLY REVIEWED AND COMMENTED, UH, THE SPECIFICALLY FOR THE THING ABOUT, UH, SUBCOMMITTEES, UH, IN STATE STATUTE ONE 60 D DASH 3 0 3, IT DOES SAY, AND THIS IS SPECIFICALLY FOR THE HISTORIC HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION, IT DOES SAY THE COMMISSION MAY APPOINT ADVISORY BODIES AND COMMITTEES AS APPROPRIATE.

WHAT I THINK HAS CHANGED, AND WE KNEW THIS, THIS WAS COMING, IT JUST, YOU KNOW, WE FINALLY GOT HERE, THE LEGISLATURE HAS, AND JAMIE, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO PROVIDE SOME MORE INSIGHT TO THIS BECAUSE, UH, I THINK YOU'RE ON TOP OF IT MORE THAN WE ARE.

WE, WE KNEW THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAD MADE SOME CHANGES OVER THE PAST YEAR OR SO, MAYBE, MAYBE BEFORE THAT RELATED TO OPEN MEETINGS LAWS.

'CAUSE I, I KNOW THAT THAT WAS KIND OF A BLACK HOLE THAT THE LEGISLATURE WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS AND JUST, JUST TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH EVERYTHING.

YOU KNOW, WE, I I THINK THE, THE DECISION HAS BEEN THAT THE, THE EASIEST THING TO DO RIGHT NOW, SO THAT OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE STAY ALIGNED WITH, YOU KNOW, STATE STATUTE, CITY ORDINANCES, SO FORTH.

IT'S JUST TO GO AHEAD AND REMOVE THE PART ABOUT THE WORK GROUPS UNTIL WE FIGURE OUT HOW WE ARE GOING TO CONDUCT DISCUSSIONS ON UPDATING THE RULES PROCEDURE, HOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE DISCUSSIONS ON GUIDELINES, HOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE DISCUSSIONS OVER PREVENTION OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT.

AND I'M CONFIDENT THAT WITH YOU AS THE CHAIR AND, AND OUR NEW VICE CHAIR, THAT YOU GUYS CAN LEAD US FORWARD AND WE CAN COME UP WITH, WITH A WAY SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SOME PROGRESS ON THESE THINGS.

UH, I, I JUST, I THINK WE, WE'VE BEEN DELAYED A BIT IN THE SENSE THAT WE KNEW THIS WAS COMING AND WE DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO ACTUALLY MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME THINGS.

BUT I, I FEEL THAT, UH, I FEEL THAT WE CAN MAKE SOME PROGRESS IF WE GIVE, UH, JIM AND MIKE A CHANCE TO KIND OF DIG INTO THIS WITH JAMIE AND WITH MATT, AND WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO MOVE FORWARD.

BUT I, I AGREE THAT THE, YOU KNOW, THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE RIGHT NOW SAID THAT WE, UH, REFLECT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO STAY IN COMPLIANCE WITH STATE STATUTES AND CITY ORDINANCE IS TO, UH, REMOVE THIS SECTION ON MEETINGS AND COME BACK AND UPDATE IT LATER ONCE WE HAVE A PLAN.

SO, SO, MR. CHAIR, JUST, JUST TO BE A BIT MORE HELPFUL, UM, ANY TIME YOUR MR. THOMPSON IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, THAT ONE 60 D DOES GIVE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSIONS THE OPTION TO CREATE SUBCOMMITTEES ADVISORY GROUPS, SUBSETS OF ITSELF WITH ONE 60 D.

WE ALSO HAVE TO READ THE OPEN MEETINGS LAW CONSISTENT WITH THE REGULATIONS IN ONE 60 D AND THE ONES THE OPEN MEETINGS LAWS REQUIRES THAT ANYTIME A PUBLIC BODY CREATES SUBSETS OF ITSELF, THOSE SUBSETS ARE ALSO PUBLIC BODIES AND SUBJECT TO ALL THE OPEN MEETINGS LAWS SUCH AS MINUTES, UM, MEETING NOTIFICATIONS, ET CETERA.

AND OVER THE EVOLUTION OF TIME, I THINK PERHAPS WE, WE DRIFTED AWAY, UM, FROM SOME OF THE BEST PRACTICES AND WITH STAFFING OVER THE YEARS.

I THINK CURRENTLY WE DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE TO SUPPORT ALL OF THESE SUBCOMMITTEES WITH MEETING MINUTES AND NOTIFICATIONS AND EVERYTHING.

I THINK WE HAVE GREAT NOTES FROM STAFF.

UH, BUT TO BE ABLE TO FORMALIZE THOSE THINGS, PROCESS THOSE THINGS, IN ADDITION TO DESIGN REVIEW IN ADDITION TO MULTIPLE QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARINGS PER MONTH IS, IS BURDENSOME.

SO IF THERE IS A WAY FOR YOU ALL TO COLLABORATE AMONGST YOURSELVES, UM, AND CERTAINLY CONTINUE WITH THE GOOD WORK THAT YOU ARE DOING AND SHARING IDEAS AND COOPERATING AND COLLABORATING, UM, WITH THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR AND ALSO INVITING MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO SHARE THEIR THOUGHTS AND IDEAS BY HAVING GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, BY INVITING THEM TO SHARE INFORMATION, UM, WITH STAFF THAT STILL FACILITATES THE COLLABORATIVE PROCESS THAT I THINK YOU ALL ARE TRYING TO FACILITATE WITHOUT, UM, OVERLY TAXING ADMINISTRATIVE RESOURCES IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY

[01:05:01]

HELP YOU MOVE THE BALL FORWARD AS EFFICIENTLY AS YOU MIGHT OTHERWISE COULD.

I THINK IT'S A GOOD SIGN.

I THINK IT ALSO MEANS THAT, UM, WE'LL AS A, AS A, AS A BODY HAVE TO DO MORE DISCUSSION AT, UH, WORK SESSIONS AND THINGS AND, BUT I THINK THAT'S GOOD.

I THINK THAT'S, THAT'LL BE HELPFUL.

WE'VE HAD THAT DISCUSSION BEFORE.

I AGREE FULLY.

WE, WE NEED TO TAKE MORE OF A ROLE ON SOME THINGS THAT THOSE COMMITTEES OR WORK GROUPS WERE DOING, BUT NOT, NOT CREATE A, ANOTHER EMPIRE THAT WE HAVE TO MANAGE.

SO, YEAH.

AND, AND I THINK JAMIE'S POINT ABOUT HAVING THE PUBLIC BE PART OF THAT, UH, MAKES A LOT OF SENSE AS MM-HMM .

AS APPROPRIATE.

BUT, BUT WE, WE DON'T WANNA START WITH A BLANK PIECE OF PAPER AND SAY, WHAT DO WE GONNA DO TODAY? I THINK WE NEED SOME STRUCTURE AND HOPEFULLY THAT'S WHAT WE CAN GIVE TO IT.

SO WITH THAT SAID, ANY MORE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THAT IDEA? SO DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE RESOLUTION BEFORE YOU SO BE RESOLVED BY THE NEWBERG HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION AT THE AMENDED NEWBURGH HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION POLICIES AND RULES OF PROCEDURE, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED HERE TO AND INCORPORATED HEREIN BY REFERENCE B AND THE SAME HERE AND HEREBY APPROVED THIS 16TH DAY OF JULY, 2025.

AND THE TEXT OF THAT CHANGE IS THAT I DON'T HAVE A, EXCUSE ME.

THE TEXTS OF THE CHANGE LINE THROUGH SUB AWARD SUBCOMMITTEES ON PAGE NINE AND THE TEXT, AS THE CHAIRMAN MAY APPOINT SUBCOMMITTEES CONSISTING OF HPC MEMBERS TO RESEARCH AND REPORT ON MATTERS OF THE HBC SUBCOMMITTEES MAY BE APPOINTED DURING REGULAR BUSINESS MEETINGS.

SUBCOMMITTEES MAY NEED TO DISCUSS FACTUAL DETAILS OF THEIR ASSIGNED TASKS.

SUBCOMMITTEES MAY NOT MAKE DECISIONS FOR THE HBC BUT MAY PRESENT FINDINGS.

AND PARTICULARLY SUBCOMMITTEES MAY NOT MAKE ANY RECOMMENDATION RELATED TO COA APPLICATIONS ON ANY HEARING THAT ENDS THE TEXT OF THE AMENDMENT.

SO THAT WILL BE, THAT'LL BE STRICKEN FROM THE, UH, POLICIES AND RULES OF PROCEDURE.

CORRECT.

AND SO WE'RE ADOPTING THE NEW RULES OF PROCEDURE EFFECTIVE REVISED JULY 16TH, 2025.

SO MOVED SECOND.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? A AYE.

REPORT, REPORT ON MAJOR COAS DENIED.

EXCUSE ME.

MIGHT HAVE BEEN ME.

PRETTY EXCITED, HUH? .

SO, ADMINISTRATOR'S

[10. HPC ADMINISTRATOR’S REPORT A. Report On Major CoAs Denied (June 5 to July 2): None B. Report on Major CoAs, Extensions, Amendments, and Condition Approvals Issued (June 5 to July 2): 216 Johnson St. – new porch enclosure windows and door 302 Avenue A – new garage 516 Pollock St. – windows, doors, porch, and fencing modifications 710 New St. – various modifications and replacements C. Report on Minor CoAs Issued (June 5 to July 2): 221 Hancock St. – mechanical unit replacement 330 Skysail Ave. – mechanical unit replacements 516 Metcalf St. – mechanical unit replacement About 20 pending D. Other Items and Updates by the Administrator Prevention of Demolition by Neglect Case Reports]

UM, SO YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, I'LL PULL IT UP HERE IN A SECOND.

CAN SEE THE, UH, LIST OF, UM, UNDER B, THE MAJOR COAS EXTENSIONS, AMENDMENTS AND CONDITIONAL APPROVALS THAT HAVE BEEN ISSUED, UH, IN THE PAST MONTH.

UH, WE HAD FOUR AND THEN MINOR COAS THAT WERE ISSUED IN THE SAME TIME PERIOD.

WE HAD THREE WITH ABOUT, UH, 20 WAITING TO, UH, WAITING IN LINE ESSENTIALLY.

UM, AND THEN, UM, OUR OTHER ITEMS AND UPDATES BY THE ADMINISTRATOR.

UM, I'D LIKE TO, UH, PRESENT A, UH, PREVENTION OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT CASE REPORT.

UH, SO THAT, UH, UNTIL RECENTLY DISSOLVED WORK GROUP, I MEAN, 10 MINUTES AGO OR THREE MINUTES AGO, WORK GROUP OR PREVENTION BY DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT HAS BEEN WORKING WITH, UH, UH, THE HOMEOWNER AT 7 26 P*****K STREET.

AND YOU MIGHT, I'LL JUST SHOW YOU SOME QUICK PHOTOGRAPHS REAL QUICK.

SO YOU MIGHT RECOGNIZE IT BY THESE PHOTOGRAPHS HERE.

THAT'S, THAT'S THE TWO DIFFERENT, UH, STREET VIEWS FOR THAT.

UM, AND THEN I WANT TO GO OVER, UH, BECAUSE, UM, ONE, WE HAVE TWO NEW MEMBERS, UM, BUT ALSO I'M PRETTY SURE SEVERAL OF YOU PROBABLY NEVER HAVE HAD ANY OCCASION TO, UM, UH, ACQUAINT YOURSELF WITH THE PROCESS FOR, UH, DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT.

SO I'LL JUST GO OVER THAT REAL QUICK AS WELL.

SO OUR, OUR ORDINANCE, NOT THE GUIDELINES, HAS THIS, UH, CHAPTER OR SUBCHAPTER 15 DASH 4 29, WHICH LISTS THE STANDARDS BY WHICH ALL STRUCTURES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, UH, CAN BE VIEWED WITH REGARD TO PREVENTION OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT.

AND OF COURSE, THE INTENT IS, THE, THE MAIN WORD IS PREVENTION.

SO WE DON'T WANT HOUSES TO GET TO THE POINT, OR ANY BUILDING TO GET TO

[01:10:01]

THE POINT WHERE IT'S IN SUCH BAD CONDITION THAT THE, THAT A DEVELOPER COMES IN AND SAYS, LOOK, IT'S NOTHING WE CAN DO.

IT'S IN SUCH BAD SHAPE, WE HAVE TO DEMOLISH IT.

AND THEN YOU END UP AGREEING BECAUSE IT, IT ISN'T THAT BAD A CONDITION.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO PREVENT THAT.

SO THESE STANDARDS WERE ESTABLISHED, THERE'S 10 OF THEM, UH, LISTED HERE.

UH, FIRST DETERIORATION OF ANY EXTERIOR FEATURE SO AS TO CREATE OR PERMIT THE CREATION OF ANY HAZARDOUS OR UNSAFE CONDITIONS TO LIFE, HEALTH, OR OTHER PROPERTY, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE AN OBVIOUS ONE.

DETERIORATION OF EXTERIOR WALLS, FOUNDATIONS, OR OTHER VERTICAL SUPPORT THAT CAUSES LEANING, SAGGING, SPLITTING, LISTING, OR BUCKLING.

THREE, DETERIORATION OF FLOORING OR FLOOR SUPPORTS, ROOFS OR OTHER HORIZONTAL MEMBERS THAT CAUSES LEANING, SAGGING, SPLITTING, LISTING, OR BUCKLING.

NUMBER FOUR, UH, DETER DETERIORATION OF EXTERNAL CHIMNEYS THAT CAUSES LEANING, SAGGING, SPLITTING, LISTING, OR BUCKLING.

NUMBER FIVE, DETERIORATION OR CRUMBLING OF EXTERIOR PLASTERS OR MORTARS.

NUMBER SIX, INEFFECTIVE WATERPROOFING OF EXTERIOR WALLS, ROOFS AND FOUNDATIONS, INCLUDING BROKEN WINDOWS OR DOORS.

NUMBER SEVEN IS DEFECTIVE PROTECTION OR LACK OF WEATHER PROTECTION FOR EXTERIOR WALL AND ROOF COVERINGS, INCLUDING LACK OF PAINT OR WEATHERING DUE TO LACK OF PAINT OR OTHER PROTECTIVE COVERING.

EIGHT ROTTING HOLES IN OTHER FORMS OF DECAY.

AND NINE, UH, NINE DETERIORATION OF EXTERIOR STAIRS, PORCHES, HANDRAILS, WINDOW AND DOOR FRAMES, CORNICES AND TABLATURES, WALL FACINGS AND ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS THAT CAUSES DELAMINATION INSTABILITY, LOSS OF SHAPE AND FORM OR CRUMBLING.

AND LASTLY, NUMBER 10, HEAVING, SUBSIDENCE OR CRACKING OF SIDEWALKS, STEPS OR PATHWAYS.

UM, THERE IS, THE NEXT SECTION IS, HAS TO DO WITH DOWNTOWN AND BOARDING UP WINDOWS, BUT, UM, WE'LL GET TO THE NEXT ONE, UH, AFTER, UH, PERHAPS LATER HERE IN A FEW MINUTES.

UM, ONCE THE COMMISSION IS, UH, BROUGHT, ONCE A, UH, PROPERTY'S BROUGHT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION, YOU MAY FILE A PETITION LISTING SPECIFIC DEFECTS WITH THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR REQUESTING THAT HE ACT UNDER THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES.

UH, AND, UH, THIS IS ALL LISTED OUT.

I'M NOT GONNA READ THOSE, THANK GOODNESS.

UM, BUT, UM, EXCUSE ME, MATT, EXCUSE ME.

THERE IS A QUESTION, DOES THAT REQUIRE A FORMAL ACTION BY, BY THE COMMISSIONER? YES.

YOU WILL HAVE TO VOTE TO DO, TO FILE THAT PETITION.

SO, UM, SO THERE IS A, A PROCEDURE THAT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED IN OUR VERY OWN POLICIES AND PROCEDURES MANUAL.

I'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE AS WELL.

WANTED TO GO OVER SOME OF THE, SOME MORE PHOTOGRAPHS OF, UH, OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

UM, AND PRIMARILY YOU CAN SEE IN MOST OF THESE, THE, THE PAINT IS PEELING OFF.

UM, BUT THERE ARE SOME, UH, OTHER, OTHER, UH, MORE SPECIFIC CA UH, ISSUES AS WELL.

UM, I DON'T THINK ANYONE'S QUITE SURE WHAT THE STARK COLORING IS UNDER HERE, AND MAYBE WE'LL GET THAT ANSWER LATER.

BUT WE CAN ALSO SEE PAINT PEELING ALONG THE, UH, EDGE OF THIS AS WELL.

UM, SO PEELING PAINT, AND WE CAN GO THROUGH A NUMBER OF THINGS, UH, NUMBER OF PICTURES OF THAT, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO BELABOR IT.

UH, AND THEN WE HAVE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING THERE WITH THE FRONT PORCH FLOORING.

I'M NOT SURE.

UM, THEN, UH, THERE'S SOME MORE PAINT PEELING, SORRY.

AND SO, UM, RECENTLY, UH, THE OWNER HAS BEEN MAKING SOME REPAIRS AND BEEN COVERING, UH, THE PATCHING MATERIAL WITH THIS, UH, WITH THESE TIEBACK COVERS SO THAT IT CAN CURE PROPERLY.

AND HERE'S, UH, ONE OF THE WINDOW SILLS THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT.

AND THEN THERE'S ALSO, UH, CLEAR PLASTIC THAT'S BEEN UP THERE, UH, FOR AT LEAST SEVEN YEARS, AND NOW FINALLY HAS BEEN REMOVED.

SO, UM, I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT HE, BECAUSE HE'S BEEN WORKING WITH US AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HIM, HE'S BEEN MAKING SOME PROGRESS.

UM, AND THEN, UH, THE ROOFING, UH, NEEDS A, A REPAINT JOB.

SO, UM, I MENTIONED THE, UH, POLICIES AND PROCEDURES.

THIS IS, THESE ARE THE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES IN YOUR MANUAL.

SO, JUST GONNA QUICKLY, I'M NOT GONNA READ THESE, BUT NOTICE THAT WE HAVE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

THESE ARE ALL VARIOUS STEPS IN THE PROCESS.

6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE 17 DIFFERENT STEPS, UH, IN ORDER TO GO THROUGH

[01:15:01]

THE PREVENTION, DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT PROCESS.

HOWEVER, ANY ONE OF THE, THIS ENTIRE PROCESS CAN BE TERMINATED AT ANY POINT IF, IF ANY, UH, PROPERTY OWNER HAPPENS TO FIX THE PROBLEMS. AND THEN THAT'S THE END OF THE STORY.

THE CASE IS CLOSED.

UM, SO, UM, UH, SOME OF THE VERY FIRST STEPS ARE THINGS LIKE JUST, UH, APPLYING FOR, OR SOMEONE SUBMITTING A COMPLAINT FORM, UH, INVESTIGATING IT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

UM, CONTACTING THE OWNER, UH, WORKING WITH THE OWNER.

UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE COMPLAINT FORM, UH, WAS FILED IN 2018.

THIS IS THAT COMPLAINT FORM.

IT'S A TWO-SIDED FORM, WHICH INCLUDES THE, ALL THOSE 10 STANDARDS AGAIN.

UH, AND THEN THIS WAS THE, UH, UH, I GUESS THE NOTES THAT WERE TAKEN BY THE PERSON THAT MY PREDECESSOR AT THE TIME IN 2018, UH, WHEN THEY WENT TO INSPECT.

SO WE SEE SOMETHING ABOUT ROT AND PLASTIC ON THE BACK AND MISSING PAINT, AND SOMETHING ABOUT THE PORCH AND CHECKING OFF A COUPLE OF THE OTHERS.

SO THAT'S HOW THEY DID IT.

UM, AND THEY USED THE, UM, THE, JUST ADMINISTRATIVELY, THEY USED THE FLOW CHART FOR THE PROCESS THAT THEY CREATED, UM, TO NOTATE WHEN THINGS HAPPENED.

AND SO, UH, IN SEVEN 20, ON 7 26 18, THEY SENT THEIR FIRST LETTER, UM, TO, TO THE OWNER AT THE ADDRESSES THAT THEY KNEW ABOUT, WHICH TURNS OUT WASN'T A VERY GOOD ADDRESS.

AND THEN SENT AGAIN IN AUGUST.

AND AGAIN, UH, SO ALL THE LETTERS CAME BACK UNDELIVERABLE.

SO, UM, THEY WERE KIND OF LEFT IN A QUANDARY WITH WHAT TO DO AT THAT POINT, NOT BEING ABLE TO CONTACT THE, THE OWNERS IN ANY WAY.

UM, THEY THEN LEFT, LEFT THE JOB, UH, AND I TOOK OVER IN 2019.

AND, UH, WE HAD TOOK US A YEAR TO FIND ACTUALLY WHERE, HOW WE COULD CONTACT THE OWNER.

SO, UM, THERE WAS A BIG LONG LAG IN THE PROCESS.

BUT YOU CAN SEE THIS WHOLE PROCESS HERE IS RE, THIS IS A NICE SIMPLE ONE HERE THAT WAS DONE JUST TO GO THROUGH THE, THE GENERAL PROCESS.

AND YOU CAN SEE IN ANY CASE, AT ANY POINT, UM, THE CASE CAN BE CLOSED FOR A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT REASONS, ESPECIALLY IF THEY, UM, COMPLETED THE WORK.

BUT IN THE END, UH, IT, AS EVERYONE EXPECTS, UM, THAT SOMEBODY WOULD, UH, POTENTIALLY, UH, GET FINES FOR NOT COMPLYING WELL, THAT TAKES 17 STEPS BEFORE YOU GET THERE.

SO, UM, ALRIGHT.

AND ONE OF THE STEPS IS, UM, TO NOTIFY THE HPC.

THAT'S, LET'S SEE, LET'S GO BACK UP THERE FOR A SECOND.

UM, THAT'S HERE IN THIS, AT THIS ONE HERE.

SO I ACTUALLY MODIFIED THIS, UH, SO THAT WE COULD REFER TO IT AND CATCH ALL THE SUB-STEPS IN THE PROCESS AS WELL.

UM, BUT HERE WE SENT OUR FIRST LETTER.

THIS WAS THE FIR ONE OF THE LETTERS THAT WA DID NOT END UP GETTING DELIVERED TO THE OWNER IN 2018.

THIS IS THE NOTIFICATION LETTER.

UM, AND THEN ALSO THAT WAS ACCOMPANIED WITH THE ATTACHMENTS OF ALL OF THE STANDARDS AT THE TIME, BUT THE OWNER NEVER GOT THIS.

SO THIS IS JUST TO SHOW YOU, AGAIN, KIND OF GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE PROCESS.

SO THIS NOW IS THE NEW, UM, THE NEW, UH, FLOW CHART, WHICH HAS MORE DETAILS, UH, KIND OF THE SAME, THE MAJOR STEPS, BUT THEN WE HAVE THESE SUBSTEPS AS WELL THAT ARE ALL IN THE, IN THOSE, UH, POLICIES AND PROCEDURES, JUST TAKEN OUT ONE SENTENCE OR ONE POINT AT A TIME.

UH, SO RIGHT NOW, TONIGHT WE ARE AT NUMBER FOUR, UH, YES.

AND NUMBERED THEM AS WELL ON THE FLOW CHART, NUM NUMBERED THEM SO PEOPLE CAN FOLLOW ALONG.

WE'RE AT NUMBER FOUR, AND I'M REPORTING THE POTENTIAL DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT TO THE HPC.

UM, THEN AT THE HPC MEETING, WHOLE NOTHER STEP NUMBER FIVE, HPC DETERMINES WHETHER TO PROCEED WITH THE DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT, SHOULD YOU NOT.

THE CASE IS CLOSED, UM, IF, AND THEN THERE'S, UH, TWO DIFFERENT PATHS BASED ON IF IT'S, UH, A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE OR NOT.

UM, IF IT IS, UM, THEN IT AT THE HPC MEETING, THE HPC FILES, A PETITION TO THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR.

IF YOU THINK IT'S READY FOR THAT.

THEN, UH, JUST SO YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS THEN IS, UM, UH, UH, THE CBI, THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR INSPECTS

[01:20:01]

THE PROPERTY AND DETERMINES, UM, IF IT, UH, MEETS THE, ANY OF THOSE STANDARDS OR VIOLATES ANY OF THOSE STANDARDS, RATHER, UH, TO DETERMINE IT AS A DB, AS DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT STATUS.

AND THEN, UM, THEY'LL REPORT THE FINDINGS AND PRIORITY REPAIRS TO THE HPC AND HPCA.

UM, IF THEY DECIDE IT'S NOT REALLY DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT, THEN THE CASE IS CLOSED.

UH, BUT SHOULD THEY PROCEED, UM, UH, STEP EIGHT A IS THAT WITHIN 15 DAYS, THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR ISSUES A NOTICE OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT TO THE PROPERTY OWNER, INCLUDING A LIST OF VIOLATIONS AND THE NOTICE OF THE DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT HEARING TO BE HELD WITHIN 30 TO 45 DAYS.

THAT'S A HEARING IN HIS OFFICE BY HIM, UM, NOT, UH, NOT HERE.

UH, SO THEN, UH, NINE A IS WITHIN 30 TO 45 DAYS OF THE NOTICE.

THEY HOLD, HOLD THAT HEARING WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER.

UM, AND THEY WORK OUT THE, UH, REPAIR ORDER.

UM, HE EXPLAINS APPEAL, RIGHTS AND PETITION.

THE HPC FOR ECONOMIC HARDSHIP IS, IS AN OPTION.

UM, AND THEN THE, UH, H-P-C-A-H-P-C-A PCA, UM, I WOULD PLACE THE PROPERTY ON PUBLIC DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT LIST.

AND THEN NINE C IS THE PROPERTY OWNER ACCEPTS THE ORDERS FILES FOR APPEAL OR PETITIONS FOR ECONOMIC HARDSHIP.

THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP ONE IS THE SETS BOX ON THE LEFT, BOXES ON THE LEFT, WHEREAS OTHERWISE IT CONTINUES DOWN TO NUMBER 10 HERE, ET CETERA.

SO THAT'S, UH, AND YOU CAN, UM, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT YOUR, ON YOUR OWN, UH, THE REST OF THOSE ITEMS THERE.

UH, THAT'S ENOUGH FOR TONIGHT.

HOPEFULLY IT NEVER EVEN GETS THAT FAR.

UM, AT ANY POINT, UH, WHEN THE REPAIRS ARE DONE, UH, THE CASE ENDS UP BEING CLOSED.

SO IF I CAN ASK A QUESTION, WE'RE ON STEP FOUR, THEN, UH, YES.

AND THEN STEP FOUR, YOU NOTIFY US.

CORRECT.

BUT THEN STEP FIVE IS WE EVALUATE, I WONDER IF THAT'S CORRECT, IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO MOVE STEP FORWARD TO DESIGN REVIEW IN THE FUTURE SO WE COULD ACTUALLY HAVE A CHANCE TO EVALUATE BY LOOKING AT PROPERTY.

WELL, UNTIL RECENTLY YOU WEREN'T, UM, EMPOWERED TO VOTE AT THAT MEETING.

NO, BUT YOU COULD, YOU COULD TELL US.

OH, OH, OH, OH, OH, OH.

I SEE.

I GOTCHA.

I'M JUST SAYING THAT RIGHT.

BECAUSE IN A, IN A DEMOLITION CASE, WE'RE REQUIRED TO GO LOOK AT THE PROPERTY, AND I BELIEVE IN JULY OF 18, YOU AND I WERE LOOKING AT THIS PROPERTY YEAH.

UH, WITH THE ADMINISTRATOR AT THE TIME.

AND SO, UH, SO YEAH, NO, THAT'S, UH, AND IF YOU FEEL LIKE TONIGHT IS TOO EARLY TO MAKE THAT DECISION, THAT'S FINE.

YOU CAN, UH, DECIDE WE CAN MOVE THAT.

NO, I HATE TO DO IT BY PHOTOS.

AND HOW, HOW DOES EVERYBODY ELSE FEEL ABOUT THAT? YEAH, I AGREE.

WELL, SOME THINGS ARE OBVIOUS, RIGHT? BUT RIGHT.

AND THE OWNERS ARE NOT HERE.

YOU'RE THE OWNER.

I, YEAH.

AND SO WE KNOW HOW TO GET IN TOUCH WITH YES.

AND YOU'RE NOW RESPONSIVE TO US.

UH, SO YES.

DOES THAT SEEM FAIR THAT WE TAKE THIS UNDER ADVISEMENT FOR THE NEXT MEETING? UH, AND YEAH, WE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE THE, THE GOAL OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH PREVENTION OF DEMOLITION, UH, BY NEGLECT IS, IS, YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO, THE GOAL IS NOT TO BEAT THE PROPERTY OWNER OVER THE HEAD.

THE GOAL IS, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE, HOW CAN WE PROTECT AND PRESERVE, UH, A HISTORIC STRUCTURE? PARTIC PARTICULARLY A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

UH, THIS, I BELIEVE THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1781.

I MEAN, IT, IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT STRUCTURE, UH, TO NEWBURGH.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS WANNA WORK WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER.

AND THE, THE WHOLE, UM, WHOLE THING WITH PETITIONING THE, THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR, WHICH I THINK WE HAVE DONE, JIM, DON'T KNOW.

I CAN REMEMBER A FEW TIMES.

THAT'S KIND OF THE NUCLEAR OPTION, BECAUSE WHEN IT GETS TO THAT POINT, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY MUCH OUT OF OUR HANDS IN THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR, IT'S PRETTY MUCH, OKAY, HERE'S, HERE'S WHAT THE PROPERTY OWNER NEEDS TO DO.

ANDS, I THINK THE ONE DOWN THE STREET FROM YOUR HOUSE CAME TO THAT.

YEAH, I DID.

UM, SO YES.

I MEAN, GOSH, I AM SORRY YOU'RE BEING RESPONSIVE TO, UH, MATT, I GUESS NOW.

AND SO, UH, CAN WE JUST SAY, WE'LL TAKE THIS UNDER ADVISEMENT, WE'LL DRIVE BY, TAKE A LOOK AT THE HOUSE, AND THEN CONSIDER WHAT'S NEXT.

AND DID YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS?

[01:25:01]

I DO.

I ALSO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.

SOME.

IS THAT ALL I, I, I DON'T HAVE TO TALK TO MICROPHONE.

BUT USUALLY, YEAH, IF YOU WANT TO COME UP, I MEAN, THE QUESTIONS ARE PROBABLY BEST FOR MATT LATER ON RATHER THAN AT THE, AT THE HEARING.

17 80, 17 81, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT, UH, IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS, I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE HERE NOW.

I I AM AND I HAVE BEEN QUITE SOME TIME.

AND THIS, UM, IT'S, YEAH, THE LETTERS WERE BEING SENT TO FLORIDA, WHICH APPARENTLY MAY HAVE BEEN AN ADDRESS THAT HE WAS USING 10 YEARS.

WHO KNOWS, BEFORE IN 2018, HE WAS LIVING IN FLORIDA, BELIEVE.

WELL, SIR, IF YOU COULD SPEAK IT TO THE MICROPHONE, I'M SO SORRY.

UH, IN 2018.

SO I, JUST TO PUT IT IN, UH, A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE, UH, KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ME.

UM, AND SOME OF THE THINGS ABOUT WHERE I AM ARE, UM, A LITTLE MISPLACED.

SO I, I DO PRESERVATION, I DO PRESERVATION PLANNING.

I WORK WITH SITES ALL OVER THE SOUTHEAST.

WE DO A FAIR AMOUNT, OR AHEAD UNTIL 2020 WHEN EVERYTHING CHANGED.

RIGHT.

DOING A LOT OF WORK IN THE CARIBBEAN BASIN, HENCE, MIAMI WAS WHERE WE WERE FREQUENTLY USING AS A BASE OF OPERATIONS.

UM, I'M SPEAKING TO YOU, BUT I'LL TRY TO CAST MY EYES ABOUT, UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY CONTEXT ALSO, THAT BUILDING, UH, MY FATHER AND I BOUGHT THAT PLACE IN TWO, EXCUSE ME, 1991, I BELIEVE.

UM, JUST FOR A LITTLE FURTHER, I DON'T REALLY LIKE TO HARP ON THIS A BIT TOO MUCH, BUT WE'RE, UM, UH, BIT OF A ATORY FAMILY.

UH, PAN SOUTH I USUALLY REFER TO AS, UH, VIRGINIA, NORTH CAROLINA, AND, UM, FLORIDA.

AND FLORIDA IS FROM 1825, MY GREAT-GREAT-GREAT GREAT GRANDFATHER, UH, UH, LEFT HERE AND MOVED TO WHAT WAS AT THE TIME CALLED MIDDLE FLORIDA.

AND DID PLANTATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT THERE.

SO, UM, ANYWAY, WE'RE CONNECTED AND WE VALUE OUR TIES TO, I SAY WE, MY FATHER DIED IN 2005, FIVE, BUT I HAVE COUSINS AND ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE WHO, UH, WE VALUE OUR TIES TO ALL THESE PLACES AND WE CARE ABOUT ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE USUALLY ANTIQUARIAN.

SO, UM, JUST TO PUT THIS, UH, THAT'S ENOUGH ABOUT ME, ABOUT THIS BUILDING.

YES, INDEED.

SO THAT'S THE FIRST RANGE OF ROOMS, UM, THE FULL WIDTH OF THE FRONT.

UH, IN APPROXIMATELY 1820, THERE WAS A SECOND RANGE OF ROOMS ADDED.

SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT SIDE VIEW, UM, THE, YOU WOULD'VE HAD A MUCH STEEPER GABLE ROOF ORIGINALLY.

AND, AND NOT NOT MEAN, UH, JUST LIKE, I NEED TO TALK TO YOU.

THAT'D BE HELPFUL.

AND I, I MIGHT WANT TO TRY THE LITTLE EXPERIMENT WITH THE, UM, I THINK YOU HAVE A FULL ON VIEW SOMEPLACE.

THAT'D BE GOOD.

YEAH, THAT'LL WORK.

SO, UM, HOW DO I DO THIS ? UH, THE, A BETTER ONE, I GUESS.

NO, OUR CONCERN IS ARE YOU, ARE YOU READY TO START WORKING WITH MATT TO DECIDE WHAT YES, AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH MATT AND I'M HERE.

SO GO THROUGH HIS LIST OF REQUIREMENTS AND THEN SEE WHERE YOU STAND ON THOSE.

IS THAT FAIR? I MEAN, THAT'S, AND, AND I JUST, I JUST WANNA SAY THAT I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED AS TO HOW WE ARRIVED AT THIS EVENING.

'CAUSE SEVERAL WEEKS AGO, UM, I, I UNFORTUNATELY, I, I WAS NOT INFORMED OF IT, BUT I HAD SPOKEN WITH MATT EARLIER IN THE WEEK AND I'D SAID THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE.

I'M GONNA LEAVE, UH, SOME THINGS OPEN FOR Y'ALL TO SEE, AND SO PLEASE, PLEASE DO THAT.

UM, MATT HAD MENTIONED THAT HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT TILL THE NEXT WEEK.

I HAD ALSO THOUGHT THAT I ABSOLUTELY MUST COMPLETE THINGS BY WHATEVER DATE THAT WAS, WHICH WAS, I THINK JUNE 4TH.

UM, AND, UM, THEN IT JUST SEEMED THERE WAS A LOT OF SHIFTING AROUND BACK AND FORTH.

WELL, AGAIN, AS YOU'VE HEARD THE DISCUSSION, YES.

WE WERE REALLY NOT THAT INVOLVED.

I BELIEVE THERE WAS ONE COMMISSIONER THAT SITS ON THE GROUP INDEED.

AND, AND, AND, AND GREGORY, UH, CAME ON THAT FRIDAY.

AND SO SOME NEIGHBORS ALERTED ME THAT, UM, HEY, UH, , THEY'RE AT YOUR HOUSE, .

AND I WAS DOING SOME THINGS FOR USDA AT THE TIME.

SO JUST TO CONDENSE THIS REALLY QUICKLY, UM, UH, WE, WE MET AT THAT TIME, UM, OR THEY MET AT THAT TIME.

I GOT THERE BASICALLY JUST AS THEY WERE DISBANDING, I WAS ABLE TO SPEAK WITH MATTHEW BRIEFLY, AND ALSO I SAW GREGORY.

AND SO I BASICALLY RAN UP TO THE COST OF HIM.

SO MY APOLOGIES.

[01:30:01]

SO WE LOOKED AT THE BUILDING AND I SAID, I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU SEE THESE THINGS.

'CAUSE THE TIEBACK COVERING WAS OVER THESE CONSOLIDATED PATCHES.

HERE'S THE SHOW AND TELL PART FOR YOU ALL.

UM, I DUNNO IF RICHARD WANTS ASK, TAKE IT.

THIS IS, THESE ARE PIECES, I'LL PUT TWO HERE THAT NOT START WITH.

THESE ARE PIECES OF ARON, WHICH IS NT MATERIAL.

THESE ARE PIECES OF AVATRON, WHICH IS A CONSOLIDATE MATERIAL.

IT'S A TWO PART, IT BEHAVES LIKE AN EPOXY, BUT IT ISN'T IN AN EPOXY.

IT'S, IT'S PLANT-BASED, UM, LIKE PEOPLE'S DIETS THEY WANT TO HAVE THESE DAYS.

SO, UH, IT'S, UM, IT'S A TRADE THING THAT THE COMPANY HAS, BUT IT MOST, IT IS SOYBEANS AND PINE RESIN.

AND YOU MIX THESE TOGETHER AND ESSENTIALLY YOU GET SOMETHING THAT IS SOMEWHAT LIKE WOOD.

AND SO YOU'LL SEE I'VE JUST SCRUNCHED THAT UP.

THE TWO PARTS.

YOU MIX 'EM TOGETHER AND IT HARDENS AND, UH, THEN YOU CAN SAW IT, YOU CAN SAND IT.

IT IS EXTREMELY USEFUL.

IT IS ABOUT THE CLOSEST THING THAT YOU CAN USE TO WOOD AS A CONSOLIDATE MATERIAL.

IT WOULD BE VERY BENEFICIAL FOR PEOPLE TO USE IT MORE OFTEN THAN, NO, I'M NOT A TRADE REPRESENTATIVE FOR THEM.

SO, UM, THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN USING.

AND, UH, I MEAN, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS ARE TO MATT TO LOOK AT IT AND, YOU KNOW, WHERE IN THE GUIDELINES THAT MIGHT BE.

AND APPARENTLY IT TAKES A GOOD WHILE FOR IT TO CURE.

WELL, IT CAN CURE QUICKLY, BUT IF I USE IT IN LOW TEMPERATURES, THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM WAS.

SO I WAS TRYING TO MEET THE, THE DATES THAT I HAD ESTABLISHED ON A CALENDAR ANYWAY, BACK TO LAST FRIDAY.

MY UNDERSTANDING AT THE END OF THAT, YOU KNOW, GREGORY AND I SHOOK HANDS, DO I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY THAT I AM ON TRACK, I'M DOING THE RIGHT THINGS AT THE RIGHT TIME.

AND I WAS TOLD YES.

AND THEN I CONFIRMED THAT WITH MATT, AND YES, YOU ARE.

AND THEN LAST WEEK IT JUST KIND OF EXPLODED AND I WAS SHOCKED.

WELL, I GUESS GIVE US THIS NEXT DESIGN REVIEW, WHICH IS THE FIRST WEDNESDAY OF, UH, AUGUST.

WE'LL LOOK AT IT.

I THINK MOST OF US WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO AT LEAST DRIVE TO THE HOUSE, IF NOT, WALK AROUND AND, UH, WE'LL GIVE MATT FURTHER GUIDANCE AFTER THAT.

AS TO WHETHER IT GOES TO STEP FIVE NEXT, OR WE HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS OR QUESTIONS OF YOU.

AND THEN SURE.

BUT AGAIN, WE'RE TRANSITIONING FROM A, A, A DIFFERENT GROUP TO US.

I SEE THAT, AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'VE UNDERSTOOD THAT.

SO THE DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT WORK GROUP DOES NOT EXIST AS OF HALF AN HOUR AGO.

RIGHT.

SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THEY, THEY, SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE MAY STILL BE ADVISORS 'CAUSE OF THEIR EXPERTISE.

YOU KNOW, THAT MATT WOULD CALL ON THEM FOR INFORMATION.

UH, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT YET.

WE HAVE NOT ESTABLISHED THAT.

UM, OKAY.

WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING AND SURE.

THANK YOU ALL.

SO WHAT, WHAT, AUGUST 6TH? I'M SORRY.

I HAD DEADLINES FOR NATIONAL PARK SERVICE GRANTS DO AT MIDNIGHT LAST NIGHT, AND I'M A LITTLE, YEAH.

FIRST WEDNESDAY OF EACH MONTH IS DESIGN REVIEW.

IT'S MORE INFORMAL.

WE DON'T, WE DON'T MAKE ANY DECISIONS AT THOSE MM-HMM .

AND, UH, WE TYPICALLY DON'T TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT THAT THIS COULD BE ON THE AGENDA.

SO WE COULD TAKE YOUR COMMENTS AND, UH, IT'S NOT HELD HERE.

IT'S HELD ON FIRST AVENUE YES.

IN THAT BUILDING.

BUT JUST AS FAR AS WHAT WAS PRESENTED THIS EVENING, WE, WE'LL, WE ARE NOT DOING THAT NOW.

IS THAT CORRECT? NO, NO, WE'RE NOT.

WE'RE, WE'RE TAKING WHAT MATT HAS HERE AND WE'LL TALK FURTHER ABOUT IT AFTER WE'VE HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE, THE PROPERTY.

SURE.

CLOSELY.

AND IF YOU WANT TO COORDINATE WITH ME, THAT MIGHT MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU TO SEE TONIGHT.

WELL, WE DON'T NEED TO GO IN.

WE'RE ONLY OUTSIDE.

NO, I EVEN OUTSIDE BECAUSE, WE'LL, I'M SORRY, I'M RAMBLING.

Y'ALL HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

SO MR. MR. CHAIRMAN, YOU KNOW, IN, IN THE PAST, UH, WE HAVE ASKED POTENTIAL, UH, DBN PROPERTY OWNERS TO COME TO, UM, THE DESIGN REVIEW SO WE COULD REALLY HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE INS AND OUTS AND DETAILS.

THAT'S WHY I SAID THAT HE, HE, YES.

HE COULD BE ON THE AGENDA.

JUST, JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR, UH, ALL, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE THERE AT THE DESIGN REVIEW MEETING, UH, ON WEDNESDAY? IT'S AUGUST 6TH.

SIXTH.

I DON'T WANT TO DO WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE I'M ABOUT TO DO.

I'M NOT DELAYING.

YEAH, I KNOW.

I, I WANT TO BE, I WANT TO MEET WITH YOU ALL.

BUT I DO HAVE SITES DISTRIBUTED ACROSS THE SOUTHEAST, SO I NEED TO CHECK ON THAT.

I MEAN, IT'S AUGUST 6TH, THEN YOU CAN LET MATT KNOW.

SURE.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT EVEN, MAN, I BELIEVE IT IS POSSIBLE, UH, TO ARRANGE FOR HIM TO DIAL

[01:35:01]

IN.

UH, OH YEAH.

IT'S NECESSARY.

SO IF, IF YOU'RE OUT AND YOU WANNA DO IT REMOTELY, THANK YOU.

WE'LL, WE'LL HAVE QUESTIONS AND, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA MAKE, WE WANNA MAKE, AGAIN, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER.

YES, ABSOLUTELY.

TO PRESERVE THE PROPERTY.

IT'S NOT TO BEAT UP A PROPERTY OWNER.

AND SOMETIMES IT HAS GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE WE DO HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, BEAR DOWN ON THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT RESPONDING.

BUT JUST THE FACT THAT YOU'RE HERE TONIGHT, .

AND I WILL GLADLY BE HERE.

I I DO FEEL A LITTLE BEAT UP THIS PAST WEEK.

I MUST SAY SO.

UM, THANK YOU ALL.

AND, UH, I, I'D LOVE TO SPEAK WITH YOU ABOUT MATERIALS, APPROPRIATE MATERIALS FOR BUILDINGS.

I, I THINK I'VE HEARD THAT MR. IS, IS IT WORK OR WEKA? IT'S OKAY.

IS VERY, VERY INTERESTED IN, UH, CONSERVATION MATERIALS AND IS WORKING ON A BUILDING ON JOHNSON STREET, SO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I, I DON'T MEAN TO .

UM, SO, UH, LOVE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

UM, I'D, I'D LIKE YOUR, YOUR FLOW CHART, THAT WAS VERY USEFUL.

BUT I, I NOTED THAT YOUR STEPS ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE STEPS THAT ARE IN THE PROCEDURES.

NO, THEY'RE, THE, THE NUMBERING IS DIFFERENT.

IT'S THE SAME TEXT.

UM, I JUST ADDED A, B, C, D FOR THE VARIOUS DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT, UH, BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE IN FOUR OR FIVE.

THE, THE STEPS, THE STEPS ARE A LITTLE, UM, OUT OF SYNC.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE UPDATED IN THE, IN THE RULES PROCEDURE.

I, I THINK, MATT, WE DISCUSSED THIS, GOSH, PROBABLY A YEAR AGO.

IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, GETTING, GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE, UH, WHERE THE DOCUMENT GETS UPDATED.

BUT I THINK WHAT MATT HAS DONE IS CERTAINLY MORE DETAILED AND IT'S THE FLOW THAT HE'S FOLLOWING, BUT IT IS NOT SO EGREGIOUSLY OUT OF LINE WITH THE GENERAL OUTLINE THAT WE, WE CURRENTLY HAVE IN THE RULES OF PROCEDURE.

AND I THINK BY FOLLOWING SOMETHING MORE AKIN TO A DEMOLITION PROCEDURE IS, IS PROBABLY BETTER.

FOR INTERACTION WITH THE EMPLOYEE, THE, UH, APPLICANT.

SIMPLY BECAUSE WE, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION, I DON'T THINK TONIGHT.