[00:00:02]
UH,[1. Call to Order]
ROLL CALL.WE HAVE MYSELF, TIM MORRISON, MIKE IKA, TIM THOMPSON, MOLLY DALES, RICHARD PARSONS, GREG RUSH, AND
BEBE DID SAY HE COULD NOT COME.
AND JOHN
SO WITH THAT, YOU ALSO MAY WANT TO NOTE THAT WE HAVE, UH, SOME STAFF MEMBERS HERE AS WELL.
WE HAVE, UH, MS. AND ROBERT ATTENDING ON BEHALF OF THE STAFF.
[3. Discussion of updates to the HPC Design Standards and Guidelines]
INCLUDES DISCUSSION ABOUT SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS ON FENCES, VINYL WINDOWS, AND OTHER SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS FOR WINDOWS COMPOSITE DOORS AND OTHER ACCOMMODATIONS ON THE REAR PROPERTIES OR IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS, DECKING AND METAL ROOFS.SO WITH THAT, A LOT OF THIS REALLY IS GENERATED BY PRESERVATION BRIEF 16, WHICH WE HAVE DISTRIBUTED TO THE MEMBERS AND IS AVAILABLE ONLINE.
AND, UH, IT DOES UNLEASH CHANGES IN WHAT WE'VE TRADITIONALLY DONE.
I WILL CAUTION, HOWEVER, THAT PRESERVATION BRIEFS DO NOT SET STANDARDS OR POLICY FOR INDIVIDUAL LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS, BUT THEY ARE A RESOURCE WE CAN USE TO LOOK UP WHEN QUESTIONS ARISE OR WE NEED, WE NEED MORE INFORMATION.
SO WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO TALK FIRST ABOUT SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS ON FENCES.
UM, ARE THERE ANY, UH, PROPONENTS FOR VINYL FENCES? THAT'D BE MY QUESTION.
NO, I THINK, I THINK WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT, I, I, I KNOW YOU'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH AND, AND I KNOW I'VE DONE A LITTLE BIT.
I THINK OTHERS HAVE DONE THAT TOO, IN LOOKING, AND NOT THAT WE HAVE TO FOLLOW WHAT OTHER JURISDICTIONS DO, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE OTHER PRESERVATION, UH, COMMISSIONS ACROSS THE STATE AND ACROSS THE REGION.
UM, WHAT, YOU DID SOME RESEARCH.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT KIND OF, UH, RESULTS HAVE YOU FOUND? WELL, WELL, MR. THOMPSON TALK, YOU, YOU ALSO DID IT WELL, SO BEFORE WE, BEFORE WE CAME IN, CAME IN TO THIS MEETING, UH, I WAS AT HOME.
I LOOKED UP SPECIFICALLY EDENTON, WILMINGTON, SALISBURY TO SEE WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT FENCES AND HISTORIC DISTRICTS FROM THEIR GUIDELINES.
AND THEY ALL SAID NO BEHIND FENCES, IF YOU WILL, IF YOU GOOGLE SIMPLY GOOGLE, YOU KNOW, VINYL FENCES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, YOU'LL GET, YOU KNOW, ALL KINDS OF HITS, UH, FROM SOME, FROM NORTH CAROLINA.
BUT IF YOU, YOU ALSO GET NATIONWIDE.
AND THEY ALL CONSISTENTLY SAY NO VINYL FENCES.
AND IN FACT, SOME PLACES HAVE ALLOWED VINYL FENCES AND THEY SWITCHED BACK TO SAY NO VINYL FENCES BECAUSE THE VINYL FENCES DID NOT LOOK RIGHT.
DETROIT WAS ONE SPECIFICALLY DID SWITCH BACK.
AND, AND, AND THE IDEA THAT, THAT THEY ALLOWED IT BECAUSE OF THE LOOK, BUT BECAUSE IT DIDN'T, IT DIDN'T THEN END UP LOOKING HISTORIC.
WAS, WAS THAT THE, THE, THE FALLBACK? IS THAT WHAT TALKING ABOUT DETROIT? IN, IN, IN ALL CASES, THE APPEARANCE OF A VINYL FENCE DOES NOT FIT THE CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
EVEN IN THE TERTIARY OR, OR IN THE, THERE WERE JUST A VERY FEW PLACES THAT ALLOWED VINYL FENCES IF THEY WERE COVERED BY BUSHES AND BASICALLY CONFINED TO THE BACKYARD.
BECAUSE THE ISSUE THERE WAS, OKAY, I'M PUTTING A VINYL FENCE BETWEEN ME AND MY NEIGHBOR.
OR THE NEIGHBOR DOESN'T LIKE IT.
AND SO THE VINYL FENCE IS ON BOTH SIDES, AT LEAST A WOODEN FENCE, LET'S SAY THE NEIGHBOR A THAT PUTS THE VINYL FENCE UP DOESN'T TAKE CARE OF IT.
B IS PRETTY MUCH AT THE MERCY OF THAT VINYL FENCE IN LIFE.
WOULDN'T THE FENCE IF THEY SIT FAIL TO TAKE CARE OF IT? YOU CAN AT LEAST SAY IT, PRESERVE IT, KEEP IT LOOKING REASONABLE ON THE OTHER SIDE.
AND IT DOES THE TEXTURE'S ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.
UH, ARE YOU ALLOWED TO TOUCH THE FENCE ON YOUR SIDE? IS THAT, I DON'T KNOW THE RULES.
UNLESS IT'S IN SET ON THE PROPERTY LINE.
IF IT'S IN SET, YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR OWN FENCE.
WE'VE HAD PEOPLE ACTUALLY PUT ANOTHER FENCE ON THEIR LINE.
WHAT ABOUT, UM, DEFINING WHAT VINYL IS? I MEAN, THERE'S ALL TYPES OF VINYL AND I DON'T KNOW.
AND PVC AND PVC AND, AND ALLOYS, YOU KNOW,
[00:05:01]
I DON'T KNOW IF I'M USING THE RIGHT WORD ALLOYS OR SYNTHETIC COMPOSITE COMP DEPOSITS.UM, YOU KNOW, I, I JUST THINK VINYL IS KIND OF LOOSE TERM.
WELL, SO IT'S USED AS A GENERAL TERM FOR NON, BASICALLY NON WOOD
SO EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT WOOD THAT NO, BECAUSE METAL FENCES ARE OKAY.
AND LIKE LIVING, LIKE FOR MY RESEARCH LIVING FENCES, ST.
SHRUBBERY AND ALL THAT, BUT, AND THEN THE METAL BRICK MASON, SO THERE'S OTHER MASONRY, METAL MASONRY IS, IS ALLOWED IF USED IN A, I THINK STONE IS ANOTHER ONE IN THE CONTEXT OF, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT IS MUCH MORE LINGUISTICALLY EFFECTIVE TO SAY, FENCE SHALL BE A WOOD, METAL OR BRICK RATHER THAN SAYING WHAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE.
THAT'S, THAT'S TYPICALLY HOW IT'S EXPRESSED.
BUT I ALSO, I ALSO FOUND WHERE THEY SAID NO VINYL FENCES IN A CONVERSATION.
AND DO WE DEFINE WHAT METAL IS? I KNOW WHAT METAL IS, BUT WOULD THAT, I DO SOME ALUMINUM SIMULATIONS OF METAL, BUT IT'S ALLOWED SOME PLACES.
WHY NOT SEEING 50,000 RIVERSIDE HAS ALUMINUM ADORNMENTS AROUND THE HOUSE THAT WERE IN THE FIFTIES.
AND YOU HAVE PIPE IN HOUSES THAT ARE A HUNDRED YEARS OLD.
AND FROM THE RESEARCH I DID, UH, SOME GUIDELINES THAT SAY METAL, THEY DON'T SAY, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S IRON STEEL OR ALUMINUM, WHATEVER.
SOME, SOME, I, I RAN INTO A FEW GUIDELINES THAT SAID, UM, USE OF ALUMINUM WASN'T APPROPRIATE EXCEPT IN BACKYARDS.
UH, I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER HAD AN ISSUE, RICHARD, HELP ME HERE.
I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH SOMEONE PUTTING UP A METAL FENCE IN US.
REALLY DISTINGUISHING WHETHER IT WAS ALUMINUM, IF IT'S PAINTED, NOT CHAIN LENGTH STEEL.
IF IT'S PAINTED, NOT CHAIN, YEAH.
SO, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO DWELL DOWN QUITE SO FAR.
WE DON'T HAVE TO SAY EIGHT 18 STAINLESS OR WHATEVER.
WE JUST, I THINK IF WE SAY THEY SHALL BE WOOD, BRICK OR METAL.
AND, AND THE METAL SHOULD BE PAINTED.
THAT'S ENOUGH TO LEAVE THE METAL.
BUT A STONE, NO, I MEAN I KNOW THERE'S NOT, THAT'S MORE NEW ENGLAND STONE FENCE AND EVERYTHING, BUT WOULD IT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE? 'CAUSE IT'S A TIME PERIOD TYPE? UM, WELL THERE IS NO FREE STONE ENGRAVING COUNTY.
THE PLACES WHERE STONE HAVE BEEN USED, IT'S BEEN BROUGHT IN IMPORTED BROWNSTONE FROM ENGLAND OR JERSEY OR BALLAST ROCK OR BALLAST ROCK.
BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO WORRY, ALTHOUGH I CAN, CAN YOU STILL QUARRY TOMORROW? YES.
IT'S VERY HARD TO GET ANYBODY TO GIVE YOU BIG PIECES IF ANYMORE.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS, SO I KNOW THAT WAS USED IN SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, EARLIER STRUCTURE.
WELL, THE, THE WALL AROUND CEDAR GROWTH WAS A PRIME EXAMPLE.
AND THERE'S A, A RETAINING WALL AT THE CORE OF GASTON HOUSE AND THE PART OF THE FOUNDATION FOR THAT.
UM, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO PUT UP A MORAL FENCE, A MORAL WALL, AND THEY CAN GET WORRIED.
I THINK WE COULD PROBABLY, WE COULD.
WELL I THINK THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT ELENA WAS SAYING IS, IS IF WE'RE SAYING BRICK, WOOD OR METAL, AND, AND WELL, IF SOMEBODY COMES IN AND SAYS SAY BRICK WATER OR METAL, BUT I WANT TO PUT UP A MORAL WALL, I THINK WE COULD, YEAH.
WE COULD ALLOW THAT, MAKE AN EXCEPTION.
I KNOW THAT IN, IN BATH IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY THAT MS. NOEY OFFERED A PENNY A PIECE FOR CHILDREN WHO WOULD BRING BALL STONE AND THEY ALL SPEND THE SUMMERS DIVING IN BATH CREEK AND PULL IT OUT BALL STONE AND TAKE 'EM TO THE CHURCH AND THEY BUILD A WATER AROUND.
THEY'LL NEVER GET KIDS TO DO
BUT LONGEVITY AND SUSTAINABILITY, I MEAN, WOOD FENCES WILL STILL LAST A LONG TIME.
WHETHER IF IF MAINTAINED, YEAH.
IF VINYL MAY LAST AS LONG BUT MAY NOT LOOK AS GOOD OVER TIME, UH, DEPENDS ON ITS SUN RESILIENCE.
AND YOU, I THINK ONE OF YOUR POINTS YOU MADE, THERE'S A WHOLE RANGE OF STUFF.
SOME PROBABLY LOOKS BETTER, SOME PROBABLY LAST BETTER.
UM, BUT I THINK IT MIGHT BE HARD TO DIFFERENTIATE IN THE STANDARDS.
BUT WE, WE, IF WE SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU
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CAN ONLY USE VINYL MADE BY THE SO AND SO COMPANY TO DO, WE DON'T JUST SAY, WE'RE NOT IN A POSITION TO ASK PEOPLE TO BRING IN SAMPLES VERY EASILY.I THINK THE, THE, IT SEEMS LIKE MOST OF US ARE ON THAT SAME, SAME THING AND WHICH AGREED WITH ALL THE OTHER H HPCS THAT WE DID, THE ONES THAT I'VE LOOKED AT.
AND I THINK THE ONES THAT YOU'VE LOOKED UP, YES.
IT SEEMS LIKE NONE OF OUR COMPARABLE THAT YOU TYPICALLY LOOK AT TIM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE SIX OR EIGHT THAT YOU SAY THAT ARE MOST SIMILAR.
WELL, AGREEMENTS THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP.
WELL, CAN I JUST, THERE IS, IS PARTY, BOARD IS, I MEAN, 'CAUSE IT'S CONSIDERED MORE OF A CEMENT BASIS.
IS THAT NOT, UM, ALLOWED FOR, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU EVEN CAN USE IT FOR FENCE, IF YOU COULD USE THAT.
IT IS NOT STRUCTURALLY SOUND ENOUGH TO REALLY USE THE FENCE MATERIAL.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF IF IT WAS EVER RUN UP WITH THAT.
SO I, I THINK AS SUCCINCTLY AS GREGORY SAID, DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE'S MUCH APPETITE FOR, FOR FURTHER DISCUSSIONS ON THAT.
AND, AND WE'LL ALL GET A SECOND SHOT ONCE WE SEE A FINAL DRAFT OF GUIDELINES.
IF THERE'S A DIFFERENT WAY TO PHRASE IT OR A BETTER WAY TO PHRASE SOMETHING, WE CAN DO THAT.
UH, SECOND ONE WAS VINYL WINDOWS AND OTHER SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS FOR WINDOWS.
AND I DO WANT TO POINT OUT, BECAUSE WE HAD A LONG DISCUSSION ABOUT ADDITIONS AND USE OF PARTY BOARD, BUT WHAT PRESERVATION BRIEF 16 SAYS LITERALLY IS GENERAT.
THERE, THERE IS NO BASIS FOR REQUIRING OF USE, REQUIRING USE OF MATCHING HISTORIC MATERIALS FOR NEW ADDITIONS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION AS PART OF A REHABILITATION PROJECT.
THEY, THEY DON'T CONFINE IT TO JUST HARD BOARD.
SO THAT WOULD MEAN THAT VINYL WINDOWS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR AN ADDITION.
AND I THINK, AND THAT'D BE ANOTHER WAY OF DIFFERENT DIFFERENTIATING THE, THE, WHICH IS IT SEEMS TO BE A, A MAJOR TENANT OF, OF THE, OF THE PRESERVATION GROUP IS MAKING SURE THE ADDITIONS AREN'T TRYING TO EMULATE THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURES.
THE SECRETARY STANDARDS DO REQUIRE THAT NEW ADDITIONS TO HISTORIC BUILDINGS AND RELATED NEW CONSTRUCTION BE DIFFERENTIATED FROM THE OLD AS WELL AS COMPATIBLE WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY.
WE'VE OFTEN SAID, WE ALWAYS SAID INSTEAD OF TWO INCHES, SOMETHING THAT MAKE IT LOOK SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WAS THERE.
COULD YOU EVER DO A, UM, MODERN ADDITION BUT VERY STREAMLINED, VERY SIMPLE OFF A HISTORIC HOUSE? WOULD THAT EVER GET PASSED? I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING THAT PRECLUDES IT.
WELL, OTHER THAN YOU'RE EXTENDING THE ARCHITECTURE FROM THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.
BUT YOU SEE THAT IN EUROPE ALL THE TIME WHERE THEY TAKE BACK OF THE BUILDING AND THEY'LL PUT LIKE BIG GLASS WITH PANS EUROPE, A LOT OF WASHINGTON DC HAS A NUMBER OF THOSE.
THEY HAVE OLD STRUCTURE AND THEY BRING IN EXAMPLES IN CHARLESTON.
BUT NOBODY'S COME FORWARD WITH THAT YIELD.
BUT I WOULD SAY THAT, I WOULD SAY THAT A NEW ADDITION CAN USE NEW MATERIALS.
BUT AN ADDITION CAN'T BE, HAVE NEW MATERIALS PUT IN THE WING ON THE BACK OF MY HOUSE IS, DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE 23 SANDBORN MAP.
AND IT WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE TO PUT VINYL WINDOWS IN THAT BUILDING AN EXISTING EXISTING EDITION.
I LOOK AT IT AS A CONTRIBUTING EDITION VERSUS AN CONTRIBUTING, WHICH IS EXACTLY ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT RICHARD IS SAYING.
LIKE FOR ME, A MORE PRACTICAL EXAMPLE IS WE'VE GOT SOME HOUSES WHERE AN ADDITION, THEY DRAGGED UP A, A SEPARATE KITCHEN BUILDING OR A SLAVE QUARTERS AND PUT IT ON A HOUSE.
I CONSIDER THAT A CONTRIBUTING ADDITION VERSUS, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE ADDING A, AN ADDITION TO A STRUCTURE, A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE AROUND 1926 KITCHEN.
I WOULD CONSIDER THAT CONTRIBUTING.
BUT, BUT ROY'S SON ON THE BACK OF HIS HOUSE, 19 IS 1995.
SO IS THERE A DATE THAT MAKES IT CONTRIBUTING VERSUS NOT CONTRIBUTING? YOU CAN USUALLY TELL, YOU CAN REALLY TELL THAT IT WAS JUST LITERALLY, WELL, LOT YOU CAN'T SEE EXISTING MIGHT EXISTING MIGHT BE A GOOD WAY.
I THINK EXISTING IS EXACTLY THE WAY TO SOLVE THIS.
AND I THINK MOLLY BROUGHT UP A GOOD POINT.
UH, 'CAUSE WHEN YOU DO ADDITIONS, WE, WE THINK IT'S GONNA BE ON THE BACK, BUT IT COULD BE ON THE SIDE
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AND IT COULD BE ON THE FRONT.AND YOU MADE A POINT OF DELINEATE.
DELINEATING THAT IT BE REAR ADDITION OR TERTIARY.
AN ADDITION TO THE FRONT BECAUSE YOU'RE DEALING WELL CLOSE PORCH OR BEN PROHIBITED.
THERE COULD BE A COMMERCIAL BUILDING WHERE THEY ATTACH SOMETHING TO THE SIDE OR TO THE, TO THE FRONT IN SOME FASHION.
THERE'S A WHAT TRIP WHEN YOU GO ON.
SO THAT HE'D DONE SOME READING AND HE SAID, ONE AUTHOR SUGGESTED THAT THE EVOLUTION OF STOREFRONT IS CHANGE.
AND SO YOU HAVE THIS NATURAL EVOLUTION OF A STOREFRONT OVER TIME.
MANY HAVE GONE BACK TO THE ORIGINAL, BUT THEY'VE ALSO PROGRESSED BEYOND AND EVOLVED TO A NEW DESIGN.
FOR INSTANCE, THE LIKE SLEEPING PORCH AND STUFF.
LITTLE WINDOWS THAT GO UP AND DOWN ON THE FRONT.
'CAUSE MY SIDE OF MY HOUSE WASN'T PORCH ON THE SIDE.
AND SOME WAY, WAY BACK IT WOULD STILL CLOSED.
BUT LIKE YOU SAID, THE GARAGE DOORS OR, OR THE FOLDING DOORS ON THE FRONT, THAT'S CARRIAGE DOORS OR SOMETHING.
AND THOSE DOORS COULD BE VINYL
BUT MAYBE IT WAS RESTORED IN 19 85, 86, AND NOW THEY'RE DOING IT AGAIN.
WELL, THOSE WERE NOT CONTRIBUTING APPEARANCES BACK THEN.
SO WE'RE SAYING THAT IF IT'S A NEW ADDITION ON THE BACK, WE CAN USE VITAMIN OKAY.
I THINK, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT EVERYBODY'S SAYING IS THAT A NEW ADDITION, TERTIARY CAN USE CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, WHICH MIGHT BE THE, THE FIBER CEMENT SIDING, VINYL WINDOWS, FIBERGLASS DOORS.
AND YOUR, YOUR DEFINITION OF TERTIARY IS JUST BEHIND.
WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT AT SOME POINT.
AND THEN THERE'S A A A DEFINITION THAT WE GO BY FOR THAT.
THERE IS, AND THERE'S, AND THE STANDARDS, THERE'S PRETTY ALL THOSE MAPS THAT SHOW, BUT CORNER HOUSE IS EXCEPT FOR THE CORNERS, THEN THERE IT IS BACK THERE.
THE MAPS THERE, THE DRAWINGS ARE GOOD, IS WHEN YOU READ THE TEXT, BUT YOU GET CONFUSED.
SO, SO QUESTION ON THE WINDOWS, UM, SINCE IT'S AN ADDITION, DO THEY HAVE TO MIMIC THE SIZE? I'LL PASS THAT TOO.
OTHER WINDOWS SIZES ON THE SIDE, IT'S NOT HARD TO ME.
IT'S EASIER TO DO THAT FOR VINYL WINDOWS.
'CAUSE YOU COULD TAKE ANY PATTERN OF A VINYL, OF A, A WOOD WINDOW AND, AND PUT IT IN ANDERSON WINDOWS WEBSITE AND THEY WILL MAKE IT LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THAT.
SO I, INTERESTING THING I CAME ACROSS ABOUT TAX INCENTIVES FOR WINDOW REPLACEMENT.
AND THIS IS WHERE YOU GOING THROUGH YOUR TAX INCENTIVE OF COMMERCIAL FEDERAL TAX INCENTIVE AND SHIPPO AND NATIONAL PARK SERVICE ACTUALLY REVIEW IT.
AND THEY SAY THE APPEARANCE OF REPLACEMENT WINDOWS MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH THE GENERAL CHARACTERISTIC OF A HISTORIC WINDOW OF THE TYPE AND PERIOD, BUT NEED NOT REPLICATE THE MISSING HISTORIC WINDOW.
IN MANY CASES, THIS MAY BE ACCOMPLISHED USING SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS.
THERE MAY BE SOME ADDITIONAL FLEXIBILITY WITH REGARD TO THE DETAILS OF WINDOWS ON SECONDARY ELEVATIONS THAT ARE NOT HIGHLY VISIBLE, CONSISTENT WITH THE APPROACH OUTLINED FOR REPLACING EXISTING HISTORIC WINDOWS.
AND WHEN CLARIFICATION OF HOW WELL DOES THE NEW WINDOW MATCH THE NEED TO MATCH THE OLD, THE WAY THE WINDOW OPERATES IS AN IMPORTANT FACTOR IN ITS DESIGN AND APPEARANCE.
A REPLACEMENT WINDOW, HOWEVER, NEED NOT OPERATE IN THE SAME MANNER AS THE HISTORIC WINDOW OR NEED NOT OPERATE AT ALL.
AS LONG AS THE CHANGE IN OPERATION DOES NOT CHANGE THE FORM AND APPEARANCE OF THE WINDOW TO THE POINT THAT IT DOES NOT MATCH THE HISTORIC WINDOW OTHERWISE IMPAIR THE APPEARANCE AND CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING.
WHAT, WHAT I TAKE FROM ALL THIS, THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF JUDGMENT CALLS THAT WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA BE FACING THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TO FACE IN THE PAST.
IF YOU, IF YOU, FOR INSTANCE, IF SOMEONE BROUGHT THAT EVIDENCE, HOW DO WE RESPOND TO THAT? WELL, SO THAT'S FOR YES.
FEDERAL TAX, FEDERAL TAX CREDIT.
SO, SO THAT MEANS THAT THAT WOULD APPLY MORE TO COMMERCIAL INSTITUTIONAL TYPE USES OF BUILDINGS, NOT NECESSARILY RESIDENTS.
AND THAT WAS GONNA BE MY POINT.
SO I COULD SEE THE LANGUAGE OF THAT AS FAR AS COMMERCIAL TYPE WINDOWS, UH, THE BUILDING
[00:20:01]
YEAH.BUT SOME OF OUR VERY IMPORTANT BUILDINGS ARE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.
AND WE'VE, I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN, WE'VE BEEN FAIRLY CAREFUL.
I DON'T RECALL US REALLY GETTING TRIPPED UP, UH, OVER WINDOWS ON, YOU KNOW, THE DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.
UH, I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE WHOLE THING WITH THE FIREMAN'S MUSEUM WINDOW TO MAKE A JUDGMENT CALL ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, BUT I THINK IT WAS, I THINK IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR AT THE TIME WHAT THE FIREMAN'S MUSEUM NEEDED TO DO.
WOULD THEY DO THAT? UH, I THINK, I THINK THE ORDER WAS A, IT WAS A WOOD WINDOW AND THEY HAD TO REPLACE IT WITH A WOOD WINDOW.
THAT, THAT, THAT APPARENTLY IS WHAT THE ALDERMAN HAD SAID, THAT THEY COULD HAVE GOTTEN A CHEAPER VINYL WINDOW.
SAME SIZE FOR HALF THE COST OR TWO THIRDS OF THE COST.
HOW DOES THAT WORK WHEN THE, THE COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE IS ACTUALLY A HOME? LIKE SAY MICHAEL'S PUB AND PATIO, THEIR WINDOWS ARE IN HORRIBLE SHAPE RIGHT NOW.
AND, AND I MEAN, I, I SEE 'EM ACROSS, THEY HAVE TO PUT PLASTIC OVER AND THEIR WOOD WINDOWS.
IF THEY DECIDED BECAUSE THEY'RE COMMERCIAL, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS, COULD THEY PUT VINYL WINDOWS IN THIS? NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
DOES THE SAME REGULATIONS CURRENTLY GOVERN BOTH RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL? BUT I THINK AS, AS TIM WAS SAYING, SOME OF THE, ESPECIALLY THE ONES DOWNTOWN THAT ARE STOREFRONT TYPE OF THINGS, ACCORDING TO THIS, IF THEY WERE TO GO TO GET TAX CREDITS LIKE THE, UM, THE ONE OVER ON CRAVEN THAT THE STAINED BRICK IF THEY WANTED TO DO THIS.
BUT I, I I THINK RICHARD'S POINT GOOD ONE IS THAT WE'RE NOT OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW THAT.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE CAUTION THOSE GUYS WHO'S STAY IN THEIR BRICK IS HE NEED TO COME SEE US FIRST AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS IT AND, AND, AND LOOK AT IT.
I THINK THIS WOULD FALL THE SAME THING.
AND I WOULD BE WILLING TO BET THAT IF MICHAEL'S PUB, FOR WHATEVER REASON, WENT DOWN THE PATH OF FEDERAL TAX CREDITS, THE PARK SERVICE WOULD SAY, YOU GOTTA PUT IT BACK.
YOU KNOW, LIKE, LIKE IT IS RIGHT NOW.
UH, AND THAT, I THINK FOR THAT, FOR THAT STRUCTURE NOT BEING A COMMERCIAL FACADE ON IT, I MEAN, IT'S OBVIOUSLY A RESIDENTIAL FACADE.
I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THE PACK, IF THE TAX, IF THE, UH, PARK SERVICE WOULD MEANDER ON THAT A WHOLE LOT.
WHAT IF IT'S COMMERCIAL AND LOOKS COMMERCIAL, BUT HAS RESIDENTIAL APARTMENTS ABOVE COMMERCIAL BELOW? I I, THERE'S NOTHING IN OUR REGULATIONS ABOUT COMMERCIAL MERCHANT NOW, YEARS AGO, UH, ISAAC TAYLOR HOUSE REPLACED THEIR DOOR DOOR AT THE END OF THAT RETURNING TO THE OTHER DOOR.
BUT THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, THE KEY IS THE COMPANY OR INDIVIDUAL NEEDS TO COME AND ASK US FIRST.
SO WE DON'T GET IN THE SITUATION WE STATEMENT OF THE BRICKS.
BUT THIS COULD PUT US IN THE SAME SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE A LETTER FROM MM-HMM
THE GOVERNMENT SAYING YOU CAN DO THIS.
BUT, BUT, BUT IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN WE TALK ABOUT IT, WE WOULD IT.
AND IF IT NEEDS THE FABRIC AND EVERYTHING ELSE, THEN MAYBE WE GO IF THERE MAYBE NOT.
SO TALK ABOUT COMPOSITE DOORS OR OTHER ACCOMMODATIONS ON THE REAR OF PROPERTIES.
RIGHT NOW THE MINOR WORKS NOW INCLUDES DOOR AND WINDOW OPENINGS ON THE TERTIARY AREA.
BUT NOW WHAT ABOUT WHERE SOMEONE'S TRYING TO GET, IN THE CASE OF, UH, PRESERVATION BRIEF 16, THEY TALK ABOUT DEALING WITH WELL ENHANCED RESILIENCE, SUSTAINABILITY OR IN INADEQUATE DURABILITY OF THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL.
SO YOU'VE GOT A BACK DOOR THAT HAS GOTTEN PUMMELED FOR A HUNDRED YEARS AND YOU WANT TO REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING THAT'S GOT A LONGER LIFE PERHAPS, ALTHOUGH IT'S BEEN A HUNDRED YEARS.
UM, BUT IT'S EASIER TO TAKE CARE OF.
NOW IF YOU JUST WANT TO REPLACE YOUR DOOR, WE DEAL WITH IT AS A DOOR.
AND WE, RIGHT NOW WE WOULD SAY, NO, YOU COULDN'T GO TO A COMPOSITE DOOR.
BUT IF, IF THEY ADD A COVER OR PORCH COVER OVER THAT OR BUILD A PORCH AROUND IT, IS IT THEN AN ADDITION AND THEY CAN DO IT? THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
OR IS IT AT THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY? WE WOULD MAKE ALLOWANCES FOR THE REAR PROPERTY.
WELL, YEAH, BUT THEN, BUT WE NEED TO, IF IT WAS THE FRONT, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT THE
THE FRONT IS IS PROBABLY SOMETHING YOU NEVER CAN TOUCH.
UH, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO REPLACE IN KIND OR REPAIR, UM, TO THE EXTENT YOU CAN.
YOU'RE ALWAYS GONNA HAVE SITUATIONS WHERE YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE A CRAFTSMAN.
YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET COMPLIABLE MATERIALS,
[00:25:01]
ET CETERA.BUT WHEN WE GET TO THE BACK OF THE HISTORIC BUILDING, WE TYPICALLY SAY IT'S HISTORIC FABRIC.
BUT ONCE YOU GET INTO THE, ALTHOUGH IF WE LOOK AT SOME OF LIKE THE HISTORIC RESTAURANTS DOWNTOWN, ALL, MOST OF 'EM DOWNTOWN, WHAT DO THEY HAVE IN THE BACK? THEY DON'T HAVE THE WOOD DOORS.
THEY'RE ALL FIRE DOOR METAL THAT ARE THE EMERGENCY.
AND THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE CLEARLY NOT HISTORIC AND, AND, AND FASHION.
BUT AGAIN, AS WE DON'T HAVE A WELL, AND I'M SEPARATION, I'M KIND OF DO NO HARM HERE, THAT WHEN THE OWNERS OF THE ISAAC TAYLOR HOUSE TOOK OUT THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC DOOR AND PUT IN AN INAPPROPRIATE BOTTOM DOOR THAT WAS DOING HARM MM-HMM
BUT A BOX, STANDARD COMMERCIAL DOOR OF ANY PERIOD ON THE BACK OF A COMMERCIAL BUILDING DOWNTOWN IS THAT THERE'S NO ARM THERE.
BUT, BUT BY EXTENSION THEN IF SOME, A RESIDENT SAYS, WELL, YOU ALLOW METAL FIRE DOORS OR, OR INDUSTRIAL DOORS IN THE BACK OF THAT HISTORIC BUILDING, ALL I WANT TO DO IS PUT A FIBERGLASS STEEL ON THE BACK OF MY BUILDING TOO.
PEOPLE SAY, WELL, NOTHING HERE IS THE PRECEDENT FOR YOU.
WE CAN, BUT I MEAN THAT YOU'VE ALREADY SAID THAT.
WE HAVE, WE SAY IT ALL THE TIME.
IT'S EASIER SAID THAN DONE SOMETIMES.
I CAN'T THINK OF A SITUATION WHERE WE WERE DEALING WITH A NON FRONT REPLACEMENT DOOR WHERE IT WAS ACTUALLY A HISTORIC DOOR.
SITUATIONS I REMEMBER IS SOMEONE HAS A WOOD DOOR FROM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, 1960S, SEVENTIES, IT'S BEEN RAINED ON, IT'S ROTTING OUT.
AND THEY WANTED TO REPLACE IT MAYBE WITH A FIBERGLASS DOOR.
BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER A SINGLE SITUATION WHERE THERE WAS ONE RECENTLY WE WERE DEALING WITH A HISTORIC DOOR ON THE BACK.
THERE WAS ONE RECENTLY WHERE THEY REPLACED A DOOR ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE AND THEY DID IT WITH A SLIDING GLASS DOOR.
BUT THEY HAD TO CHANGE THE LOCATION.
I MEAN, SO WHY WE'RE SAYING DOOR AND WINDOW OPENINGS, BUT THEN WE'RE NOT REALLY DEFINING WHAT THE DOOR CAN LOOK LIKE.
SO, SO ARE YOU SAYING, TIM, IS THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE IF SOMEONE WANTS TO TAKE OFF THEIR OLD WOODEN DOOR THAT'S QUITE AND AND PUT ON A NEW FIBERGLASS STEEL, WHAT OTHER MATERIAL DOOR? WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT, UH, IN INSTEAD OF A, OR YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT INSTEAD OF A, INSTEAD OF A STEEL, YOU KNOW, STEEL METAL DOOR THAT'S ENCASED IN FIBERGLASS.
UM, I WOULD PREFER A DOOR OF COMPOSITE MATERIAL.
I THINK IT WOULD LOOK, IT WOULD LOOK BETTER THAN, YOU KNOW, SUPPOSE WE COULD SAY SOMETHING THAT, THAT LOOKS APPROPRIATE.
IT APPEARANCE, IT HISTORIC LOOK LIKE THE GLASSMAN DOOR OR THE GLASS IN OR SOMETHING.
YEAH, I HAVE A LITTLE BIT EASIER TIME WITH WITH THAT.
I, I HAD A LITTLE BIT OF HARDER TIME WITH THE WINDOWS ON THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.
EVEN THE TERTIARY I'M, BUT THE, BUT THE DOOR IS, YOU CAN MAKE THOSE FIBERGLASS DOORS LOOK, THEY LOOK YEAH.
BECAUSE LIKE MY HOUSE, MY DOOR IS ACTUALLY MENTIONED IN SANDBAGS BECAUSE IT'S GOT ORIGINAL ETCHED GLASS ON THE, ON ONE SIDE OF IT, IT'S A DOUBLE DOOR, BUT THE OTHER SIDE I GUESS GOT BROKE YEARS AGO, BUT THEY'VE MADE IT LOOK LIKE IT.
SO I WOULD, IF I TRIED TO SAY, HEY, I WANT TO PUT A, YOU KNOW, PANE GLASS OR SOMETHING, AND I WENT, OH, SOLID WOOD.
I KNOW THAT THAT SHOULD, WOULD BE A NO, IT SHOULD BE A NO.
UM, BECAUSE IT IS ORIGINAL AND EXTENSION IN THERE.
SO, SO, SO, SO THAT BRINGS, SO IF WE SAY YOU CAN DO IT AND, AND, AND MATCH THE, THE ARBITRATOR OF, BECAUSE IT'S A MINOR NOUN, UM, WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME TO THE BOARD THEN? WOULD HE HAVE TO REFER IT UP? 'CAUSE CHANGING THE MATERIALS IS DIFFERENT THAN DOOR OPENINGS.
I THINK THAT WE, WE COULD PUT IN THE MATTER WORK.
I THINK THE OTHER QUESTION IS, IF MATT WERE TO REFER IT UP TO YOU, IS THAT A CASE YOU WANT TO TAKE ON? WELL THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.
THAT THAT'S WHERE IF I DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE IT ON, I'D HAVE STAYED BETTER THAN BOARD DECIDES.
I THINK THAT'S GONNA GET MORE TRANSPARENCY, UM, TO DO THAT.
I THINK WE WANT TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY GOT TURNED DOWN BY MATT.
[00:30:01]
TURN ANYBODY DOWN.IS THAT ANYTHING? HE CAN SAY YES, BUT HE CAN'T SAY NO.
I ONLY GIVE YOU JUST A TINY, I I HAD A COMPLAINT WHEN I WAS IN THE BANK AND THE PERSON SAID, SO AND SO WAS RUDE TO ME AND SHE WAS IN CUSTOMER SERVICE PROBABLY, OR THIS PERSON.
AND I SAID, WHAT DID SHE SAY? SHE WOULDN'T GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK.
WELL, AND SO THAT BECAME RUDE AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE MATT IS.
HE'LL READ THEM THE GUIDELINE AND THEY, THEY TAKE IT AS A NO AND, AND HANG UP.
BUT YEAH, I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE THEM.
AND I BELIEVE WITH ALL THESE LISTS OF POSSIBILITIES FOR INADEQUATE DURABILITY AND AVAILABILITY, UNAVAILABILITY OF SKILLED ARTISANS, UNAVAILABILITY OF HISTORIC MATERIAL, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF JUDGEMENTS TO MAKE IF WE ALLOW THOSE.
WE CAN'T JUST TELL THE PERSON, YOU CAN DO IT.
WE NEED TO SEE IT AND WE NEED TO DISCUSS IT.
BUT THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF WHY THEY CAN'T FIND A CONTRACTOR, WHY THEY CAN'T GET THE MATERIAL.
AND I WOULD THINK IN A BACK DOOR THAT WOULD BE PRETTY UNUSUAL.
AND UNLESS YOU GOT SPECIAL BACK DOOR, MINE'S A FRONT DOOR.
WELL THE FRONT DOOR'S DIFFERENT.
WE TALKING BACK DOOR, BUT, SO JUST FOR CLARIFICATION.
SO IF IT'S A NEW BUILD, THEY CAN USE OF COURSE JUST AN ADDITION.
ADDITION IN ADDITION OR A NEW BUILD ALTOGETHER.
OR IF THEY'RE ADDING A PORCH AND CHANGE THE DOORS ON THE, THE NEW PORCH IN THE BACK MM-HMM
THAT'S KIND A JUDGMENT CALL THERE.
YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH IS NEW, HOW MUCH WAS OLD.
BECAUSE AGAIN, THEY, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE COMPANIES THAT CAN MAKE 'EM LOOK, YOU KNOW, RIGHT UPON IT.
BUT I, I AGREE WITH MORE THE, THE ADDITION.
I WAS IN A DISCUSSION OVER THE WEEKEND ABOUT THE PRESERVATION FOUNDATION AND ENFORCING COVENANTS.
AND BASICALLY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ALL AGREED ON IS THAT AS UNPLEASANT AS IT IS TO ENFORCE THE COVENANT OR HBC STANDARD YEAH.
WHATEVER, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL BE JUST AS UNHAPPY, WHO ARE RELYING ON US TO PROTECT THEM.
AND THEIR INVESTMENTS AND THEIR PROPERTY VALUE.
AND SO WE HAVE, IF WE DON'T GO THE TALK, WE HAVE TO BLOCK THE WALL.
I THINK THE MORE YOU'RE IN THE TERTIARY AREA AREA, THE, THE LESS YOU ARE RISKING DAMAGING THE OTHER NEIGHBORS.
BUT I THINK THAT, THAT MATT NEEDS TO BE VERY CLEARLY IN THE POSITION.
HE CAN SAY YES, BUT HE CAN'T SAY NO.
HE CAN ONLY REFLECT, I THINK HE'S, HE'S CHANGED ON THAT RECENTLY.
UM, WITH, WITH THE CAVITY WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE IDEA OF, OF PRESERVATION IS THAT WE'RE MAINTAINING THE, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE STRUCTURE, THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE MATERIAL.
AND WE DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE SOME OF THE MINING TOWNS IN COLORADO, THE REQUIREMENT WAS TO KEEP THE FACADE.
SO THEY HAVE THIS VERY QUAINT 18 HUNDREDS MINING COMPANY AND THEN THE BACK IS JUST ULTRAMODERN.
AND, AND I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
AND I THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT THE SUDAN PATH, BUT WE DON'T, WE WE'RE NOT IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT
THAT'S WHY THERE ARE A BUNCH OF US.
AND I KIND OF AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID.
I MEAN, PRESERVATION VERSUS, UM, RESTORATION AND KEEPING THE STRUCTURES SOLID AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT THE BASIC RIGHTS, WOOD WINDOWS FOR DOUBLE PAVED AND THE EASY EASINESS TO CLEAN THE WINDOWS WITHOUT GOING ON A TWO STORY LADDER.
I THINK YOU TO GET THAT WITH WOOD TOO.
BUT, UM, WE, WE NEED ALSO TO BE BETTER AT GIVING MATERIAL THAT MATT HAS ASSEMBLED THAT TALKS ABOUT HOW YOU BETTER OFF KEEPING YOUR HISTORIC WINDOW THAT IT CAN MAYBE NOT ENERGY WISE FOR THAT WINDOW SPECIFICALLY, BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA SAVE 50% OF YOUR ELECTRIC BILL BY PUTTING IN NEW, NEW WINDOWS.
BUT WELL, AND THE EVIDENCE IS THAT, THAT MOST OF THE ENERGY LAWS AROUND DOUGLAS IS NOT THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE LEAKY.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING KIND OF FINISH WITH IS THE SILLS GET ROTTED AND THE WATER GOES INTO THE PROPERTY OR THROUGH THE WALLS.
AND THAT'S JUST KEEP HAVING BETTER MAINTENANCE ON YOUR HOME.
BUT IT'S A REAL ISSUE FOR ROTTING OUT THE STRUCTURE.
YOU HAVE TO REGLAZE, YOU'VE GOT TO, YOU JUST HAVE TO, I KNOW SOMEBODY WITH A HOUSE THAT HAS 200 50-YEAR-OLD
[00:35:01]
WINDOWS.THEY'RE JUST MINE AND, BUT THEY'VE BEEN MAINTAIN.
WELL, SO WE'RE, WE'RE HITTING ON SOMETHING THAT, THAT I'VE WORKED ON A BIT TO TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME IDEAS ALL AROUND MATERIALS AND HOW THEY FIT IN.
I ONLY HAVE SIX COPIES OF THIS.
I WAS ABOUT BRING MATERIALS, WAIT, TEST IT OUT THE HOUSE ON, UM, WE DRIVE, DRIVE BY THIS, WHATEVER THEY CALL IT A
THEY'RE DOING A TOTAL RECALL ON IT.
UM, IT'S LIKE ACROSS FROM SAVAGES PIECE OF THE BIG WHITE.
AND THEY'RE DOING A GREAT JOB.
AND THERE'S ALL THE WINDOWS ARE OUT.
HAVE THEY, UM, HAVE THEY COME TO, TO THE AGENCY BECAUSE THEY CAME, THEY PRESENTED, THEY CAME, PUT WOOD IN IT.
IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'VE TAKEN OFF EVERY ONE OF 'EM.
THEY'RE ALL PLYWOOD UP RIGHT NEXT BACK IN.
IT'S, I MEAN, THEY'RE DOING IT.
SO, BUT THAT PROJECT HAS EXPANDED SIGNIFICANTLY, I WOULD THINK.
BUT I THINK EXTERIOR IS STILL WHAT WE APPROVE CHANGING THE PORT GO SIDE A FEW THINGS.
AND THE DOORWAY, THEY'RE CHANGING A WINDOW FOR A DOOR.
WELL LET, LET ME EXPLAIN WHAT IT IS I'M TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER HERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, TRIP, TRIP HAS, UH, MADE A PASS THROUGH SECTIONS ONE THROUGH FIVE, UH, OF THE GUIDELINES.
UH, WE TRIED TO INCORPORATE A BUNCH OF THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, HE OBSERVED OVER TIME AND, YOU KNOW, HE KNOWS THAT WE'VE GOTTA DO, WE'VE GOTTA UP OUR GAME A LITTLE BIT WITH CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I'VE LOOKED AT, I'VE LOOKED AT HIS FEEDBACK, I'VE LOOKED AT PRESERVATION BRIEF 16, I'VE LOOKED AT OTHER GUIDELINES.
UH, I'VE GOT PRINTED SECTIONS HERE SPECIFICALLY ON, UH, WINDOWS AND CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS FROM WILMINGTON EDON TO SALISBURY BEAUFORT, SO FORTH.
AND I'VE TALKED WITH, WITH TRIP ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT, BUT HE, BUT WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS WE, WE'VE GOT SECTION FOUR, WHICH IS DESIGN COMPONENTS, FOUNDATION, DOORS, WINDOWS, THOSE BITS AND PIECES.
AND WE'VE GOT THE SECTION PART OF SECTION FIVE THAT TALKS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS.
BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT REALLY, TO ME, THAT REALLY PUTS THE TWO PIECES TOGETHER.
YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO READ THROUGH THE GUIDELINES AND KIND OF RELATE THOSE TO, OKAY, IS THIS A HISTORIC STRUCTURE? IS THIS, IS, IS THIS INFILL CONSTRUCTION? SO WHAT I'VE TRIED TO DO, AND THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST KIND OF A BRAIN DUMP, YOU KNOW, IGNORE ANY MISSPELLINGS, BAD GRAMMAR.
UH, I'M SURE I HAVEN'T CAUGHT EVERYTHING, BUT THE GENERAL IDEA IS, OKAY, SO YOU WANT TO, YOU WANT TO, YOU'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING WITH WINDOWS ON YOUR STRUCTURE AND IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, A NON-CONTRIBUTING ADDITION, WHETHER IT'S NON-CONTRIBUTING, EXISTING EDITION, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, AN INFIELD.
SO BASED ON THAT, WHAT'S ALLOWABLE, IT'S A GOOD IDEA WITH WINDOWS.
AND IF YOU LOOK DOWN THROUGH OTHER CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES WITH WINDOWS, IT SAYS NO VINYL WINDOWS IN THE CASE OF AN ADDITION.
CONTEMPORARY WINDOWS ARE ALLOWED IN AREAS THAT ARE NOT VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, AND IT DOESN'T REALLY SAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT MATERIAL.
IT JUST SAYS, YOU KNOW, MAX SIZE DIMENSION PAINT CONFIGURATIONS OF SURROUNDING AND SURROUNDING TRIM BASED ON WHAT'S ON THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
SO THE IDEA IS LET'S PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE GUIDANCE THAN WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW ON THESE COMPONENTS.
AND, YOU KNOW, BLOCK IT UP SOMEHOW SO THAT SOMEONE CAN LOOK AT THE APPROPRIATE THING OR, OR LOOK AT THE THING THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO AND FIGURE OUT WHAT'S APPROPRIATE.
AND, AND WITH THIS, THEN YOU COULD EVEN, UH, THEN SAY, IF YOU WANT MORE DETAIL, GO TO SECTION, WHATEVER.
WELL, AND THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT.
IF YOU'LL GO BACK, UH, TO, I GUESS IT'S, YOU'LL, YOU'LL SEE IT, YOU'LL SEE IF YOU FLIP BACK THROUGH THIS, THERE'S A SECTION WITH THE HEADER OF WINDOWS.
NOW WE'VE GOT A SECTION IN THE, IN THE GUIDELINES ALREADY THAT TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WINDOWS, YOU KNOW, THE HISTORIC WINDOWS SIX OVER SIX, TWO OF THE TWO.
YOU KNOW, KIND OF, SORT OF WHY WINDOWS ARE IMPORTANT.
BUT I THINK, I THINK IN A LOT OF THESE CASES, WE'RE NOT REALLY EXPLAINING, HERE'S WHAT WE RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO.
[00:40:01]
AND I THOUGHT WINDOWS, SINCE WE DEAL SO MUCH WITH WINDOWS, I JUST GO AHEAD AND TRY TO BANG OUT SOMETHING ON THIS.SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT ON, YOU KNOW, WHY WINDOWS ARE IMPORTANT AND HOW OLDER WINDOWS, YOU KNOW, ARE, ARE PUT TOGETHER DIFFERENTLY VERSUS NEW WINDOWS.
AND SOME OF THE ISSUES WITH, WITH DEALING WITH OLD WINDOWS IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY IS OFTEN GIVEN AS A JUSTIFICATION AND WHY THAT'S NOT SO, YOU KNOW, WINDOW, WINDOW FRAMES FROM THE OLDER STRUCTURE USUALLY HAVE SHIFTED OVER TIME AS THE STRUCTURE'S SETTLED.
SO YOU'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH THAT.
IF, IF YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WITH THE WINDOWS, AND WHEN YOU START REPLACING OLD WINDOWS WITH NEW STOCK REPLACEMENT WINDOWS, IT'S VERY HARD TO FIND MATCHING WINDOWS.
UH, UM, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF A COMPONENT OF THESE OLD WINDOWS NEEDS TO BE REPLACED, IT CAN BE DONE BECAUSE THE OLD WINDOWS ARE PUT TOGETHER FROM INDIVIDUAL COMPONENTS AND THEY'RE DESIGNED SO THAT THEY CAN BE FIXED.
THE NEWER WINDOWS YOU PUT IN A NEW REPLACEMENT WINDOW, YOU GOTTA REPLACE THE ENTIRE THING EVERY 10 YEARS.
UH, THERE'S SOMETHING IN HERE ABOUT WOOD ROT AND SOMETHING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOODS TO USE IF YOU'RE REPAIRING AN OLDER WINDOW AND THEN SOMETHING ON WHAT YOU KNOW, THE BEST PAINT TO USE ON THESE OLD WINDOWS.
YOU
IT TALKS ABOUT WHAT WE CALL PRESERVATION, I THINK.
AND TALKS ABOUT BEST PRACTICES, WHATEVER.
AND AS WE WERE DISCUSSING THE WHOLE THING ON FENCES, UH, I THINK THE BIGGEST MISTAKE THAT PEOPLE MAKE WITH FENCES IS THEY LIKE TO GO AND BUY THESE FENCE SECTIONS THAT ARE ALREADY BUILT AND THEN THEY PUT 'EM UP AND THEY PAINT IT.
THE PROBLEM IS, IF IT'S A PREBUILT FENCE WHERE THE PICKET ATTACHES TO THE RAIL BEHIND THAT IS UNPAINTED.
WATER GETS INTO THAT AND THAT'S WHERE IT ROTS VERY QUICKLY.
IF YOU ASSEMBLE A FENCE FROM THE INDIVIDUAL PIECES AND YOU PAINT INDIVIDUAL, THE EACH INDIVIDUAL PIECE ON THE FRONT, THE BACK, THE WHOLE THING, AND THEN ASSEMBLE IT, THEY WILL LAST MUCH LONGER.
BUT I THINK THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF A BEST PRACTICE AS OPPOSED TO A REQUIREMENT.
SO IF, IF YOU THINK THAT THIS IS A, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS IS HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, IT'S A GOOD IDEA.
I CAN CONTINUE TO, TO, TO WORK ON THIS THROUGH IT, BUT I THINK THE CONCEPT, I LOVE THE WAY IT'S SET UP.
IT'S VERY, IT'S VERY EASY TO READ AND, AND UNDERSTAND THAT.
I, AND I THINK THE FACT THAT IT'S BULLET POINTS, AS WE'VE TALKED A NUMBER OF TIMES, I LOVE BULLET POINTS.
PEOPLE LIKE BULLET POINTS IF THEY'RE NOT GONNA READ THE WHOLE PARAGRAPH.
BUT IF IT'S VERY CLEAR IN A BULLET, I GET IT.
IF I NEED TO LOOK AT MORE, I CAN REFER THE SECTION, WHATEVER, AND THEN READ THE, THE BEST PRACTICE AND THE, AND THE WHERE AND WHYS AND THINGS ITSELF TO LINKING THE DOCUMENT.
AND IF, IF YOU RECALL IN, IN ALL THESE DIFFERENT SECTIONS ON, ON WINDOWS, DOORS, ENTRANCES, SO FORTH, USUALLY THE FIRST GUIDELINE RELATED TO THAT SECTION SAYS, YOU KNOW, ADHERE TO STANDARDS FOR PRESERVING HISTORIC FEATURES.
WELL, OKAY,
I JUST LOOKED AT, UM, EXTERIOR MASON AND THE FIRST PARAGRAPH, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M READING RIGHT.
BRICK MASON ALREADY INSTALLED IT WITH LIME MORTAR AND MUST BE REPAIRED OR REPLACED WITH LIME MORTAR IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE EXISTING BRICKWORK.
I AGREE A HUNDRED PERCENT WITH THAT.
BUT IS THAT A HARD THING TO FIND AS YOU JUST WENT THROUGH FIGHTING LINE ORDER? NO.
IS THERE OTHER ANSWER IS IT'S NOT EASY.
I, WELL, I MEAN MY OWN, BUT YOU, YOU CAN ORDER IT AND LET, LET'S, LET'S BE REALISTIC.
MOST OF THESE PROPERTY OWNERS AREN'T, YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA GO OUT THERE AND MIX THEIR OWN LINE, ORDER, DO THEIR OWN MASONRY.
A A MAC, A MASONRY CONTRACTOR CAN GET THIS.
IT'S NOT, IT'S LIKE, OH MY GOD, I GOTTA SEARCH FOR, MUST TO FIND IT.
NO, THERE, I KNOW OF AT LEAST THREE PLACES WHERE YOU CAN ORDER.
[00:45:01]
THE WORD MUST.IS THAT A MUST OR IS THAT A SUGGESTED? WELL, WE, FOR, FOR THE OLD BRICKS, IF THE OLD BRICKS WERE INSTALLED WITH LIME MORTAR, I WOULD SAY, RICHARD, HELP ME HERE.
I'D SAY IT'S A LOT TO GO BACK WITH LIME MORTAR, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T, THE OLD BRICKS WILL FALL, IT'LL FALL APART.
THE, UH, THE PORTLAND CEMENT IS MUCH HARDER THAN THE OLD BRICKS.
SO YOU END UP CRACKING BRICKS.
IT'S VERY HARD ON THE OLD BRICKS.
AND IN FACT, IT'S IN THE GUIDELINES RIGHT NOW, USE LIME MORTAR IF THERE'S ALREADY LIME MORTAR THERE.
I THINK MATT GAVE US A LONG PRINTOUT ON BRICK RETAINING BRICK AND YEAH.
NOW, YOU KNOW, I'VE TRIED TO UN UNDER THAT, I TRIED TO ADD SOME FLEXIBILITY HERE.
IF BRICK PEERS OR BRICK SKIRTING IS BEING REPLACED, USE BRICKS THAT MATCH AN APPEARANCE.
IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU USE OLD BRICKS, JUST BRICKS THAT MATCH AN APPEARANCE OF THE ARREST OF THE STRUCTURE.
AND IF YOU'RE REPLACING, YOU KNOW, THE PIERS, WELL, I DON'T THINK ANY BRICK CONTRACTOR IS GONNA RECOMMEND THAT YOU GO BACK AND, AND REPLACE PIERS WITH OLD BRICKS AND LIME MORTAR.
THEY'RE GONNA USE MODERN MORTAR.
SO I'VE TRIED TO WORD THIS SO THAT WITH THINGS LIKE THIS, WE'VE GOT SOME FLEXIBILITY.
OKAY, YOU'RE JACKING UP A HOUSE, YOU'RE GONNA REBUILD THE PIERS, TRY TO USE BRICKS THAT MATCH OTHER EXISTING MAINSTREAM ON THE STRUCTURE.
TRY TO TRY TO USE LIME MORTAR THAT MATCHES THE COLOR OF EXISTING MORTAR.
BUT IF YOU'RE REPAIRING THE OLD BRICKS AND THE LIME MORTAR, YOU GOTTA USE LIME MORTAR TO PRESERVE THE BRICKS.
AND IF WE HAVE A HEARING, IT'S A GOOD TOPIC TO DISCUSS WITH THE APPLICANT.
THE CONTRACT OR EVEN THE TIME REVIEW.
SO, SO THAT MAKES, THAT'S GREAT.
SO JESS IS, YOU KNOW, AS, AS AN OUTSIDER, DOES THIS, THIS MAKE SENSE? IT MAKES COMPLETE SENSE.
I AM IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF MY PLANNING KNOWLEDGE IS IN THE SHALLOW END OF THE POOL, AND THIS MAKES SENSE.
SO I, I'LL I'LL CONTINUE ON WITH THIS NOW.
YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M EXPECTING EVERYONE WHEN I GET THIS TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, READ IT CAREFULLY.
UH, THERE'S, LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, I, I'VE JUST KIND OF DONE A WORD A, A BRAIN DUMP HERE.
I DON'T HAVE EVERYTHING THAT IS NECESSARILY ANY GUIDELINES THAT SHOULD BE REFLECTED HERE, BUT I'M, I'M HOPING IT'S A GOOD START SO THAT WE CAN GET SOMETHING THAT WILL, WILL HELP ALLEVIATE A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND CONFUSION FROM APPLICANTS.
WELL, I APPRECIATE YOUR WORK BECAUSE, UM, YOU HAVE A PURIST AND, AND YOU HAVE SHOWN SOME FLEXIBILITY AND SOME WILLINGNESS TO USE NEW MATERIALS.
AND I THINK THAT'S FROM LISTENING TO THE PUBLIC AND WHAT THEY WANT.
SO I APPRECIATE YOU DOING THAT.
IT MAY WELL BE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A SECTION FIVE AS IT IS NOW, WHICH IS CALLED MATERIALS.
AND WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, WE CAN THINK ABOUT THAT.
BUT I THINK THIS MEETING MIGHT BE A GOOD PREFACE TO FIVE OR WHEREVER THE NEW FIVE IS, AND THEN WHERE HE HAS THIS WINDOW SECTION HERE, THAT REALLY WOULD BE FIVE OR WITHIN FIVE THE WOOD SECTION.
YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, JIM.
HOW ABOUT MONDAY? DO WE WANNA HAVE A QUICK CONVERSATIONS ON ROOFS AND DECKS SINCE WE'RE HERE AND IT'S IN THE CHART? UH, YEAH.
SO DECKING, UH, RIGHT NOW WE REQUIRE THAT, UH, YOU USE, YOU TALKING ABOUT FRONT DECKS, BACK DECK, FRONT DECKS WE USE THE MATERIAL ON.
AND THEN FOR ADDITIONS YOU CAN USE COMPOSITE MATERIALS.
BUT, UH, BUT ARE WE SAYING TONGUE GROOVE OR ARE WE SAYING BOARD TO BOARD OR BOTH? WE, WE DON'T SPECIFY.
UM, 'CAUSE IN THE PAST, AT 12, TONY GROOVE HAS SOME ADVANTAGES, BUT THEY BOTH HAVE ADVANTAGES.
BUT I THINK AN RIK, IF YOU DO REPLACEMENT OF KIND, IT HAS TO BE WHATEVER, OTHERWISE YOU HAVE TO GO FOR A COA.
WELL, I'M CONFUSED IF IF LIKE I, I HAD COMING GROUP AND I REPLACED IT WITH COMING GROUP, IT WOULD YOU REPLACED IT WITH JUST THEN, THEN, THEN I'D HAVE TO GO GET A-A-C-O-A THE FACT THAT IT WAS ALLOWED, WELL, YOU, YOU COULD COME TO US AND SAY, I WANT TO CHANGE.
IT WOULD, IT IS NOT, IT'S NOT A, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT YEAH.
THE BOARD WOULD'VE TO LOOK AT, I BELIEVE, ESPECIALLY ON THE FRONT.
BUT IS THERE ANY INTEREST IN WHICH WE DID, BY THE WAY, FOR THAT HOUSE DOWN ON FRONT STREET FRONT AND, UH,
[00:50:03]
I THINK THAT SIDE STREET YEAH.THAT THROUGH STREET CHANGE DRIVEN THAT SIDE CHANGE BEFORE CHANGE STREET, YEAH.
UM, AND IS THERE ANY INTEREST IN GOING TO SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS FOR DECKING ON HISTORIC BUILDINGS? WELL, I'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH ON, YOU KNOW, COMPOSITE DECKING.
UH, THIS TENDS TO BE ONE OF THE PLACES WHERE WHEN WE GET SOMETHING ABOUT PORCHES AND DECKS IN THE REAR, UH, TO USE COMPOSITE DECKING, COMPOSITE MATERIALS FOR THE ACTUAL DECKING, UH, YOU CAN GET A, A TONGUE AND GROOVE COMPOSITE DECKING AND YOU CAN GET IT WITH A SMOOTH SURFACE SO THAT IT CAN BE PAINTED.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, WITH ALLOWING, UH, COMPOSITE MATERIAL, UH, ON THE FRONT PORCH.
AGAIN, THE, THE, TO ME, THE RECOMMENDATION SHOULD BE REPAIR BEFORE REPLACE.
AND IF YOU WANT TO REPLACE, YOU KNOW, BRING US DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE THAT YES, IT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED, AND IF YOU WANT TO USE A COMPOSITE MATERIAL, BRING US A SAMPLE.
I DON'T THINK THAT IS UNREASONABLE AT ALL FOR THE BACK.
UM, I, I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBLE WITH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BACK DECKS MM-HMM
AND IF THEY WANTED TO USE COMPOSITE MATERIAL ON THAT FOR THE DECKING FLOOR, THAT'S OKAY.
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD ALLOW.
AND YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT PORCHES AND DECKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT OBVIOUSLY RUNS INTO THE RAILINGS OF THE BALUSTRADE AND COLUMN REPLACEMENT AND ALL OF THAT.
SO I THINK WE SHOULD TRY TO NARROW THE FIELD THERE FOR A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE ON THE FRONT.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT DECKING, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT RAILINGS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT ALLOW A LITTLE BIT OF LEEWAY IN THE SENSE THAT IF, IF YOU'VE GOT A COMPLETELY DETERIORATED COLUMN, LET'S SAY THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU CAN'T EASILY REPLACE THAT, UM, WITH WOOD, THEN WE WOULD CONSIDER A COMPOSITE REPLACEMENT.
AGAIN, NARROW THE FIELD HERE, WE WOULD CONSIDER A COMPOSITE REPLACEMENT BASED ON MATERIALS.
YOU GOTTA PROVIDE EVIDENCE THAT IT'S ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, STRUCTURALLY UNSOUND.
I KNOW THAT WE HAD A SITUATION A FEW YEARS AGO WITH THE, UH, JEWISH TEMPLE.
THEY HAD ONE COLUMN WHERE THE BASE HAD PARTIALLY ROTTED OUT.
UH, THE, THE ACTUAL COLUMN I THINK WAS STILL STRUCTURALLY SOUND.
IT'S JUST THE BASE HAD ROTTED OUT AND THEY WANTED TO REPLACE THE ENTIRE THING WITH FIBERGLASS COLUMN.
AND WE SAID, NOPE, YOU KNOW, REPAIR IT.
AND AS FAR AS I KNOW, THAT'S WHAT THEY DID.
I, I REMEMBER WE WENT TO A CLASS WHEN IT WAS ON THE FIRST TIME AND THE SHIPLOAD PEOPLE SAID, OH YEAH, WE ALLOWED FIBER GLASS COLUMNS.
BECAUSE THE PERSON SAID IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET A REPLACEMENT LIKE THAT.
AND I GUESS ALSO, SHOULD WE BE A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBLE IN HAVING A PERIOD APPROPRIATE COLUMN VERSUS WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A COLUMN THAT LOOKS JUST LIKE THIS PICTURE IN SAND? LIKE, LIKE PRECAUTIONS.
YEAH, BECAUSE PEOPLE COULD HAVE CHANGED THEIR COLUMNS BACK TWICE BEFORE WE EVEN GOT TO IT.
WELL, YOU KNOW, IF, IF SOMEONE, IF SOMEONE HAS A, A PORCH WITH COLUMNS AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT'S IN SAND BECK'S BOOK, IF THE COLLINS HAVE BEEN REPLACED, THEN I MEAN WE'RE GONNA SAY, YEP.
YEAH, REPLACEMENT AND KIND PUT BACK, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S ALREADY THERE VERSUS GO BACK TO THE HISTORIC PHOTO.
NOW, RICHARD, I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR INPUT ON ALL THIS SINCE YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH SOME OF THESE BATTLES.
WELL, IT'S ROUGH AND PERSONALLY, THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF HEROIC COLUMNS LIKE THE ONES ON THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH OR, OR CODE CROW.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT ANY, THEY'RE NOT A LOT LIKE THAT.
UM, AND I THINK SOME OF THE SMALL ONES ARE GENERALLY PRETTY EASILY FOUND IN WOOD.
THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY REPLACED THERE TOO WITH MAHOGANY, WHICH WAS A CHALLENGE TO FIND.
SOMEWHERE IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA.
WHAT ABOUT THE COMBINATION, LIKE SOMETIMES THOSE ROUND BASED, IT'S NOT THE CAPITAL, BUT IT'S THE WEB BASE BASE.
[00:55:01]
THAT BE A MANMADE PRODUCT IN THE COLUMN PART SHAFT FEE OR WOOD, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT USUALLY RIDES OUT VERSUS THE BOTTOM.CHAD WARS DOES IT, FRIEND OF MINE, JEFF DAVIS HAS A BUSINESS OF WILMINGTON AND THEY DO NOTHING BUT COLUMNS AND
BUT THERE WOULD, IT DOES BOTH.
I SEE THE CATALOG THAT HAS IT.
THERE'S MUCH MORE COMPOSITE STUFF THAN THERE IS.
ANOTHER, ANOTHER THING, ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER WHEN THESE DISCUSSIONS COME UP WITH, WITH AN APPLICANT.
UH, WE REALLY HAVEN'T HAD ANYONE, ANY CRAFTSMAN IN NEW IN NEWBURN WHO COULD MAKE WOOD COLS.
UM, I THINK ROBIN COULD DO IT, BUT ROBIN'S NO LONGER, NO LONGER WITH US.
UM, RICH STEWART WHO DID SHUTTERS DOORS, WINDOWS, I DON'T THINK HE DID COPIES.
HE JUST DID NOT HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TO DO IT.
UH, THE GUY WHO TOOK OVER, UH, RICHARD'S, UH, WORKSHOP, HE INHERITED ALL OF THE EQUIPMENT THERE, BUT HE ALSO HAS THIS, THIS $30,000 CNC CUTTER MACHINE.
AND I TALKED WITH HIM THE OTHER WEEK AND HE SAID, YEAH, I CAN MAKE COLUMNS.
IN FACT, THE HUNTS JOE, ANNETTE HUNT ON BROAD STREET, THEY WERE LOOKING AT GETTING REPLACEMENT COLUMNS AND UH, MARK SUPPOSEDLY CAME IN AT A VERY REASONABLE PRICE TO MAKE THEM REPEL REPLACEMENT PROBLEMS OUT, OUT OF, OUT OF WOOD.
SO WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS IS THAT INSTEAD OF SAYING, INSTEAD OF SAYING, YEAH, YEAH, JUST REPLACE THEM WITH, WITH COMPOSITE MATERIAL OR WHATEVER, IF WE HAD SOMETHING IN OUR BACK POCKET WHERE WE SAID, OKAY, WE KNOW THIS GUY MAKES COLUMNS, WOULD COLUMNS GO TALK WITH HIM? THAT WOULD HELP US A LOT.
WELL, AND I WILL SAY NUMBER ONE, COLUMNS ARE SOME OF THE MOST DISTINCTIVE AND DEFINING MM-HMM
UM, SO THAT MAKES THEM VERY IMPORTANT.
AND NUMBER TWO, COLUMNS ARE A RICH PERSON'S GAME.
AND WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT IN MIND THAT THIS IS, IT'S STILL A RICH PERSON AND THAT IF YOU WANT TO SWIM IN THE DEEP WATER, YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW TO SWIM
A COUPLE THINGS THAT YOU SAID THAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT TIMBER.
ONE IS, YOU TALKED ABOUT FRONT PORCHES REPAIR VERSUS REPLACE.
I, I'M NOT SURE I AGREE WITH THAT.
AND, AND THAT IS, IF, YOU KNOW, IN THE CASE OF MY PORCH, ABOUT A THIRD OF IT WAS JUST TOAST, RIGHT? BUT IF I TRIED TO REPLACE JUST THAT, THE, THE, THE NEW KAC BOARDS WERE THREE AND A HALF OLD WAS FOUR, SO IT WOULDN'T, THEY WOULDN'T, YOU'D HAVE TO KIND OF MAKE THEM FIT AND CUT SOME PIECES AND THINGS.
BUT IF IT, IT'S AT MY COST AND I'M REPLACING THE DECK BECAUSE I WANT TO, I SHOULDN'T BE PRECLUDED AND SAY, UH, NO, ONLY A THIRD OF YOUR OF YOUR PORCH IS BAD.
SO YOU ONLY CAN REPLACE A THIRD OF IT.
DON'T REPLACE THE WHOLE THING.
I THINK IF, IF, WELL I THINK REPAIR IS COOL AND OR SPOT REPAIR IN SOME CASES.
I THINK FOR A FLOORING IT, IT'S HARD TO SAY, OKAY, REPLACE THIS SECTION.
THAT SECTION WITHOUT, ON THE WHOLE THING WHAT I WAS SAYING ABOUT THE RICH PERSON, AND I PUT THE WORDING IN THERE TO TRY TO BE CONSISTENT WITH CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
WE ALWAYS ENCOURAGE REPLACE, BUT ALL THOSE ARE LEGITIMATE PL LEGITIMATE POINTS.
AND I WOULD HOPE THAT THE MEMBERS OF THE HPC WERE SOPHISTICATED AND ENOUGH TO THINK THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.
IT'S LIKE, OKAY, WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT TALKING ABOUT OUTSIDE, APPARENTLY WE'RE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT A COUPLE BOARDS HERE THAT HAVE ROTTED ON THE END WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE THING NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.
AND SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND I'M NOT SURE I I'M THERE YET, BUT THE BACK DECKS BEING COMPOSITE, I'M TOTALLY THERE.
IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO ME TO HAVE AN ADDITION.
YOU USE THE MATERIALS, I'M A LITTLE BIT WITH THE, THE RAILINGS AND, AND THINGS LIKE, BUT IT MAKES SENSE IF YOU CAN HAVE AN ADDITION THAT'S GONNA BE CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, IS A DECK REALLY THAT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN AN ADDITION? WELL, A GOOD THING IN MY HOUSE, I THINK MAYBE FIVE YEARS AND THE RAILINGS, I HAD TO CUT THE BASE OFF THE, THE, UM, BALANCE.
[01:00:01]
BASE ON, AND I'VE DONE IT FOR MOST OF THE GROUNDS AND I'VE REPLACED, AND EVERY YEAR IT SEEMS LIKE I HAVE TO DO MORE, MORE AND MORE.AND THEY JUST GET ROTTED FROM, YOU KNOW, I PRIME.
BUT WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU THINK IN THAT CASE, OR IN ANY CASE, THAT IF OUR ADDITIONS, WHICH WHICH MEAN THIS HAVING A DECK IS KIND OF AN ADDITION BECAUSE OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE, WE DIDN'T HAVE DECKS, RIGHT? IT IT, SO IS IS IT THAT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN HAVING AN ADDITION AND IF WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO USE CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS ON ADDITIONS, SHOULD WE BE LOOKING AT HAVING CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS ON DECKS? I'M PRETTY SURE WE PERMIT IT AS AN ADDITION TOO.
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
AND I'M NOT OPPOSED I, INCLUDING, INCLUDING RAILINGS AND, AND ERS AND I DID NOT DO THAT MUCH RESEARCH ON COMPOSITE MATERIALS FOR BALLADE AND RE AND SO FORTH.
I WOULDN'T BE OPPOSED TO THAT.
I WOULD JUST, I MEAN, I THINK WE OUGHT TO SAY UPFRONT NOBODY, IT, NOBODY BUT REKS, YOU KNOW, THEY MAKE THE DECKING STUFF, THEY ALSO MAKE THE COMPOSITE RAILS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
I I I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT, THAT WE, WE TRY TO, THAT WE GO WITH COMPOSITE AND WE TRY TO MAKE SURE IT'S A COMPOSITE MATERIAL THAT YOU'RE GOING TO PAINT.
I DON'T KNOW, SOME OF THE MATERIALS, I DUNNO WHAT STAINING, PAINTING, I DUNNO ANYTHING ABOUT.
AND A LOT OF THEM COME IN ALREADY IN A CERTAIN COLOR AS A PAL.
YEAH, I THINK SOME OF 'EM ARE, A LOT OF 'EM ARE PRE, PRE-PAINTED OR PRE COLOR.
IT'S PART OF THE, AND SOME OF IT IS, SOME OF IT HAS A WOOD GRAIN TO IT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU SHOULD STICK WITH IT NEEDS TO BE SMOOTH.
I BUILT ONE ON THE BACK OF MY OCEAN FRONT HOUSE YEAH.
AND THE TRACKS WAS NEW SLICK, AND IT WAS EXPENSIVE, BUT IT WAS ALSO COOL TO THE TOUCH.
SO YOU CAN WALK ON IT AND OPEN SIGN.
SO I, I DIDN'T, I THINK WHAT YOU SAID ALSO WAS THAT, UM, PERHAPS ALLOWING THE COMPOSITE ON THE FRONT PORCHES.
I, I, CAN WE TALK ABOUT THAT? I'M NOT SURE.
WELL, THAT'S WHERE I WAS GONNA BRING UP.
IS A LOT OF THE NORTH CAROLINA, OTHER H HPCS AS WELL AS ELSEWHERE TALK ABOUT TECHNICAL FEASIBILITY OR NOT TECHNICAL, TECHNICALLY FEASIBLE.
WE TEND TO TALK ABOUT CASE BY CASE.
AND TO ME, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE REALLY ARE.
IT'S MORE CASE BY CASE, CASE BY CASE SOUND.
AND IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY FEASIBLE TO DO THESE THINGS, BUT YOU MAY HAVE A PARTICULAR SITUATION OR TRY TO RESOLVE THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, UM, COST OR WHATEVER IT IS, CASE BY CASE.
AND IT DOES HAVE YOUR COMPOSITE DECKING MAYBE CONSIDERED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
WELL, MY POINT IS I DON'T DONE 20 YEARS AND IT'S STILL AN EXCELLENT SHAPE.
I MEAN IT IS ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT ANY ISSUE.
IS IT PAINTED OR IS IT JUST WHATEVER MANUFAC, MANUFAC, THE STREET VIEW.
AND IT PROBABLY HAS, PROBABLY, PROBABLY SOLID THROUGH IT'S NOT ON TOP.
SO AS YOU AWARE, IT STILL HAS THE SAME COLOR.
BECAUSE IT'S ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
WELL, AND ON THIS CASE, BY CASE VISITS, IF, IF STATUTE AND GUIDELINES AND AI COULD HANDLE ALL THIS STUFF, THERE WOULD BE NO NEED OF US HERE.
AND I THINK THAT A LOT OF OUR PURPOSE HERE IS CASE OVERRIDING, OVERRIDING THE DEFAULT OR WHATEVER MIGHT OTHERWISE HAPPEN AND SAY, YES, IT DOES SAY THIS, BUT IN YOUR CASE, WE HAVE OVERRIDDEN IT.
RIGHT? BECAUSE THE STANDARD IS NOT IN CONGRESS WITH THE SPECIAL CHARACTER, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, IT'S NOT THE SAME.
YOU AS, AS YOU SAID, YOU REALLY CAN'T CREATE A SET OF RULES THAT GOVERN, IN OUR CASE OF 300 YEARS OF HOUSES, ALL THE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS GIVES A BETTER IMPRESSION OF WHAT WE DO RATHER THAN SEASON.
SO WHEN YOU HAVE THE DECK PUT ON, DID THEY, WERE THE COLUMNS AND RAILS AND ALL THAT WAS THAT TRACKS AS WELL? ALL OF IT.
AND IT HAD THERE EIGHT BEDROOMS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE RUNNING THROUGH IT ALL ALSO.
THEN, UM, SO, BUT I DO TWO OTHER THINGS.
ONE IS, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE COLUMNS AND SOMETHING THAT YOU BROUGHT UP RICHARD, BACK WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT FRONT STREET HOUSE YOU TALKED ABOUT, UM, A PERIOD, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY WERE REALLY FOCUSED ON WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKE, THAT THEY, THAT THEY TOOK OUT.
AND I THINK YOUR POINT WAS SOMETHING, AND I DON'T WANNA PUT
[01:05:01]
WORDS IN MOUTH, WAS, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO KIND OF TAKE A LOOK AT THE AGE OF THAT HOUSE, BUT WHAT, WHAT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATE AT THAT TIME AND NOT REALLY GET HUNG UP ON WHAT WAS THERE THAT THEY HAD TOOK OUT.WELL, AND I THINK THAT'S, AND PART OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WAS THAT THE PICTURE IN SAND BACK INDICATED THAT IT HAD BEEN CHASED OUT, WENT DOWN ALREADY, AND, AND SO YEAH.
AND, AND PUTTING BACK WHAT WAS EXACTLY THERE WAS NOT RIGHT BECAUSE IT HAD BEEN PUT BACK WRONG.
AND, AND, AND, AND I, AND THEN I STARTED THINKING ABOUT THAT WHOLE, YOU KNOW, LET'S LOOK AT THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF WHEN THE HOUSE WAS BUILT.
WHEN WE START LOOKING AT APPROVING THINGS LIKE COLUMNS AND THEN I THINK EVEN LIKE TIM, YOUR HOUSE, WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT CHANGING THE COLUMNS BACK THE WAY IT WAS IN 1805, THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE.
JUST BECAUSE IT'S BEEN THIS WAY FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS DOESN'T MEAN THAT'S WHAT IT NEEDS TO BE.
AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT NOW THAT YOU'RE DOING IT, BUT BECAUSE YOU JUST WANT TO MAKE CHANGES, I THINK, I THINK THAT SEEMS LIKE A VERY ACCEPTABLE STANDARD.
YOU READY TO MOVE YOUR ROOTS? BECAUSE I'M LOOKING HERE AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE DON'T HAVE A DARKER VIEW AND THE ASPHALT SIGNALS.
WELL, AND DESCRIBING THE, LIKE I SAID, I DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE EVERYTHING IN HERE.
UM, YEAH, AND GREGORY, YOU, YOU WERE ASKING ABOUT THE DARKER HUES.
AND RICHARD, MAYBE YOU KNOW, RICHARD IN MY LIGHTER HERE.
I MEAN, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE JUSTIFICATION IS FOR HAVING THE DARKER SHINGLE, UH, THE DARKER COLOR FOR SHINGLES.
THERE WAS A REASON THAT WAS IN THERE.
PROBABLY SOMEBODY TO GET A RED ROOF AND THEY A LOT OF RED ROOF.
WELL, WELL AREN'T YOU RED? I'LL TRY TO BE BRIEF.
UH, IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO PAINTED METAL ROOMS WAS A BINGLE HAD THREE COAT, WELL, ONE, ONE GUESS WHAT?
AND, AND HE ORDERED QUOTE LONG OIL ROOF PAINT IN 50 GALLON GALLON, 55 GALLON DRUMS. AND THAT WAS WHAT YOU GOT.
THIS WAS MY JEOPARDY WALL MAN EDITOR,
SO THAT'S, THAT'S ABOUT METAL ROOFS.
UH, WERE TYPICALLY, THEY'RE NOT SLATE, BUT WE SLATE IS RICH AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANT.
THEY WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE SOMETHING RICH.
AND SO THREE TABOOS WERE ALWAYS DARK.
AND IN THE FIFTIES, AND I, I KNOW SPECIFICALLY MY PARENTS' HOUSE IN 1953, UM, THE THREE DAMN SHINGLE PEOPLE HAD JUST STARTED MAKING WHITE SHINGLES AND IT WAS THE RAGE.
AND EVERY HOUSE BUILT IN 1955 IN RALEIGH HAD WHITE SHINGLES ON IT.
AND IT, IT IS, THEY'RE ALSO SOMEWHAT COOLER.
NOT A WHOLE LOT, BUT SOMEWHAT COOLER.
BUT THEY LOOK LIKE 1953 AND NOT 1853.
AND I THINK THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE DARK VIEWS IS THAT TO PUT A WHITE FREE TO HAVE ROOF ON YOUR HOUSE WOULD'VE NOT LOOKED RIGHT.
WE'VE GOT QUITE A FEW GREEN SHINGLE ROOF IN, IN TOWN TOO.
I DON'T KNOW HOW OLD THEY ARE, BUT BLUE I'VE SEEN.
YEAH, THE METAL ONES FOR SHORT.
BUT EVEN JUST SHINGLES, THERE'S GREEN AND MULTI MULTICOLOR.
I'VE SEEN THE, I'VE SEEN BLUE, BUT I'VE SEEN LIKE THE, THE MODEL LOOK, IS IT GREEN? BROAD STREET? BROAD.
AND GEORGE, I THINK IT'S RIGHT THERE.
IT'S GOT, AND I THINK MY HOUSE IS VERY MODELED COLOR TOO.
GREG IS LIKE, HOW DO I GET A GREEN ROOF? I SAY THAT EVEN LIKE GRAY, IS THAT CONSIDERED DARK OR WHAT'S, WHAT'S CONSIDERED DARK? I DON'T THINK REALLY SPECIFY COLOR AS WE DON'T SPECIFY COLOR IN THE HOUSE.
AND WE HAVEN'T HAD BIG PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE PUTTING WHITE ASBELL ROOFS ON THE ROOF.
THAT'S KIND OF A COMMON STATEMENT THAT MATT MAKES IS WE DON'T CARE WHAT COLOR YOU PAINT YOUR HOUSE.
WHO CARES ABOUT ER WELL, SO THEN THIS, THIS SOUNDS LIKE A, A TOPIC FOR RESEARCH FOR TO OF FIGURE OUT WHAT OTHERS ARE DOING AND IF THERE'S A REASON WHAT A WHITE LOOKS LIKE.
ARE YOU GOOGLING IT? YEAH, I ALMOST, BECAUSE I CAN'T EVEN PICTURE THAT.
IT JUST SOUNDS LIKE A NIGHTMARE OF ME.
AND IN FLORIDA WITH ALL THE TIME THERE'S POLL THE POLLEN ON IT, IT WOULD JUST LOOK AND WE'RE NOT IN FLORIDA, YOU'RE JUST GONNA BE FESTIVE AND SEASONALLY APPROVAL WHEN YOU TURNS YELLOW.
WE'RE NOT IN FLORIDA, SO YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY TELL ME, WHO KNOWS IN FAIRFIELD HARBOR AND GREENBRIAR, ARE THEY PUTTING WHITE SHOES ON? NOW? I DON'T THINK
[01:10:01]
WE HAVE, BUT THERE ARE, UM, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ABOUT GREEN BRIAR, BUT THERE ARE NEWER SHINGLES THAT HAVE DIFFERENT LOOKS TO THEM.THERE'S A BLUISH ROOF IN GREENBRIER, A ONE THAT I KNOW OF.
WELL, SOMEBODY PUT THE ONE OFF DOWN NOW MAYBE A BIGGER ISSUE IS ON METAL ROOF.
ALL RIGHT, SO NOW, RIGHT NOW WE STAY, WE SAY THAT YOU CAN PUT ASPHALT ON, WHICH ARE FINE AS LONG AS A DARK QUEUE, AT LEAST FOR NOW.
UM, OR YOU COULD PUT ON STANDING SEEING OR, OR WHATEVER THE PROPER TERM IS, METAL ROOF.
HOWEVER, I, I THINK WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT PUTTING ON METAL ROOFS THAT ARE NOT STANDING SEEN, THAT ARE LIKE, GRANTED THEY MAY NOT LAST AS LONG AND, BUT THAT ISN'T THAT A BEST PRACTICE AS OPPOSED TO A REQUIREMENT? YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO PUT ON SOMETHING THAT'S ONLY GONNA LAST 30 YEARS INSTEAD OF 90 AND RECOGNIZE THAT YOU HAVE TO DO THIS AGAIN IN 30 YEARS, SHOULDN'T THAT BE ALLOWABLE UNDER OUR, UNDER OUR STANDARDS? LIKE A STAMP METAL? SO SOMEBODY, NO, NOT STAMPED, BUT YOU KNOW, LIKE, LIKE THE ONES THAT ARE, UH, THE SNAP.
THE ONES THAT ARE LIKE YOU PUT 'EM ACROSS 'EM OVER AND THEN YOU, AND THEN YOU, UH, SCREW THEM DOWN ON, ON.
WELL, AND THE, THE ISSUE, THE ISSUE WITH THAT IS THAT TYPICALLY THESE ROOTS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE SEAS SNAP ALL AND SNAP TOGETHER, UM, THEY CAN'T BE MOLDED, UH, WHERE THE, WHERE THE SINK WHERE THE PITCH COMES TOGETHER, THEY CAN'T BE MOLDED SO THAT YOU CAN, SO THAT YOU CAN DO IT WITHOUT A VENT.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID ON THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES IS IF IT'S GOT A STANDING CEILING ROOF, WE WANT IT TO GO BACK WITHOUT CERTAINLY A RIDGE CAP.
AND THERE'S NO WAY TO DO THAT WITH THE STACK TOGETHER PIECES.
THE RIDGE CAP DRASTICALLY CHANGES HOW IT LOOKS.
SO LIKE THE BENJAMIN HOUSE, AS PEOPLE GO BY, YOU THINK PEOPLE LOOK AT THAT AND GO, YEAH, MAN, THIS HOUSE IS GREAT EXCEPT FOR THAT LITTLE RIDGE CAP ON TOP IS MAKING THE STRUCTURE LOOK NON HISTORIC.
WELL, SO WHEN PEOPLE GO BY AND LOOK AT THE WINDOWS AND SAY, OH, THOSE WERE REPLACEMENT WINDOWS AND WINDOWS IS ONE THING, BUT A RIDGE CAP, ESPECIALLY ON A TWO, TWO AND A HALF STORY HOUSE WITH FOLIAGE AND WHATEVER ELSE IN FRONT.
I DON'T THINK I, I SEE IT EVERY DAY.
WINDOWS, DOORS, SIDING FOUNDATION ARE THE KEY DISTINGUISHING COMPONENTS, ARCHITECTURAL COMPONENTS OF A HISTORIC STRUCTURE SHIP.
SO IT'S COME UP RECENTLY A FEW TIMES WHERE THEY'VE BEEN INSTALLED WITHOUT TALKING TO MATT.
AND NOW YOU'VE GOT A $30,000 MISTAKE.
THAT'S THE ELLA'S HOUSE, THE CORRUGATED RIVERSIDE, THE CORRUGATED ONE THAT WHERE THAT WHAT THE NAME THEM.
BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, EVEN IF YOU HAD THIS STANDARD, THAT SAME SITUATION WOULD STILL HAPPEN.
IT'S WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE A STANDARD IN THIS, IN THESE GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT ALLOWS FOR THAT.
WELL, I WOULD, I WOULD ARGUE THAT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE, SOMEONE WHO PUTS ON A ROOF AN INAPPROPRIATE ROOF WITHOUT ASKING ANY QUESTIONS, UH, TO ME THAT'S A BIT OF A DIFFERENT ISSUE, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH MONITORING TO START WITH, WHICH DOESN'T HAPPEN A WHOLE LOT.
SO, SO, SO IN IN THAT, IN THAT VEIN THAT PUTTING ON ASPHALT SHINGLES, WHICH OF COURSE WERE NOT AROUND 200 YEARS AGO, IS ACCEPTABLE, BUT HAVING A RIDGE VENT MM-HMM
AND I'VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY, I'VE HEARD PEOPLE COMPLAIN TO ME, IT'S LIKE, WHY DO YOU ALLOW PEOPLE WITH A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF TO PUT ON SHINGLES? MM-HMM.
YOU SHOULD REQUIRE THAT THEY GO BACK WITH A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF UNDERNEATH THE METAL THAT ARE WOOD SHINGLES AND ASPHALT SHINGLES AMPLIFIED THE WOOD SHINGLES BETTER THAN THE METAL.
AND THEY PUT THE METAL ON BECAUSE OF FIRE HAZARDS.
AND NOW WE HAVE BETTER FIRE COATINGS FOR ASALT SHINGLES.
WELL, THE METAL ROOF IS A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN ASALT SHINGLES.
SO YEAH, IT'S, AND IF YOU'RE GONNA ALLOW FOR A CONTEMPORARY MATERIAL, YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER ALLOWING A CONTEMPORARY SECURING METHOD FOR A METAL ROOF.
BECAUSE THAT'S NOT JUST CHANGING HOW IT'S SECURED, THAT'S CHANGING THE ENTIRE MATERIAL LOOK AND FEEL.
IS IT MORE JUST FROM MY EDUCATION? IS IT MORE WEATHER RESILIENT TO HAVE THE, THE NEWER MODERN IT, I MEAN, CONSIDERING WE DO GET HURRICANE FOREST WINDS AND I DON'T KNOW, IS IT THE COST? I THINK THERE'S DIFFERENT ONES COST.
IT'S DEFINITELY NOT COST EFFECTIVE FOR A METAL ROOF.
BUT IF I'M TALKING ABOUT THE METAL ROOF, THAT VERSUS MORE CONTEMPORARY VERSUS CONTEMPORARY ONE.
OH, I'D SAY THE GAUGE OF THE METAL, THE GAUGE, THE
[01:15:01]
GAUGE OF THE METAL AND ITS APPLICATION.THEN YOU'VE JUST BLOWN 50,000 BUCKS.
I MEAN, 'CAUSE WE ARE GONNA HAVE, WE'RE AT THE POINT NOW WE HAVE TO REPLACE OUR WHOLE ROOF.
BUT, BUT I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, AND HOW START, I'M SORRY.
OH, I STARTED THINKING ABOUT THIS WHEN I WALKED BY BENJAMIN ELLIS HOUSE.
AND, AND, AND LOOKED FROM THE STREET AT THE BENJAMIN ELLIS ROOF, WHICH AS WE KNOW IS NOT, DID NOT MEET STANDARDS.
AND THERE'S A POTENTIAL LAWSUIT, AND I'M NOT SURE WHERE THAT STANDS AT THIS POINT, BUT I ASKED THE PEOPLE I WAS WITH WHO ALL LIVE IN HISTORIC, I SAID, YOU KNOW, TAKE A LOOK AT THAT ROOF, WHAT DO YOU THINK? VERSUS SOME OF THE OTHER ONES AROUND HERE.
AND THEY SAID, EH, IT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD.
IT'S, IT'S NEWER, IT'S CLEAN, IT, IT, NO ONE SAID, GOD DAMN, LOOK AT THAT RIDGE CAP THAT REALLY RUINS THIS WHOLE THING.
UM, AND, AND SO I I, IT GOT ME THINKING ABOUT WE'RE REQUIRING REALLY A PRETTY EXPENSIVE METAL ROOF OR YOU CAN PUT SHINGLES ON FOR LIKE HALF THE COST THIRD, A THIRD THE COST.
SHOULD THERE BE SOME KIND OF INTERMEDIATE WHERE WE SAY, OKAY, WE LIKE METAL ROOFS, THEY'RE APPROPRIATE, BUT NOT THAT SAME REQUIREMENT FOR THAT CONSTRUCTION.
AND THAT'S MY QUESTION, A GOOD, BETTER, BEST, IF YOU WILL.
THE, UH, TRAIN STATION HAS A NON, A NON-APPROVED ROOF.
WELL, THAT
WELL, AND THE RAILROAD HAS TAKEN THE VERY HIGH GROUND FROM THE VERY BEGINNING THAT THERE'S SOME KIND OF FEDERAL SECURITY LAW THAT EXISTS.
AND THEY'VE ALSO, EVEN USING IT LAWS, THEY'VE ALSO EXPANDED THEIR RIGHT OF WAY.
THERE'S A LOT OF, A LOT OF PROPERTIES THAT ARE IN THEIR RIGHT OF WAY RIGHT NOW
SO THAT'S OBVIOUSLY GONNA BE SOMETHING, SOMETHING.
SO, SO I JUST LIKE, JUST KIND OF SEE, SO YOU DO LOOK LIKE THAT CONCEPT OF HAVING A MIDDLE GROUND IS NOT SOMETHING YOU'RE, YOU'RE THRILLED WITH.
AND I'D JUST LIKE TO KIND OF TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.
WELL, I, I THINK THE PLACE, I THINK THE PLACE TO START, UH, COLOR ROOF TYPES OF METAL ROOFS, UM, LET'S DO SOME RESEARCH ON THAT TO KIND OF SEE WHAT OTHERS, WHETHER ARE, ARE DOING AND HOW THEY'VE WORDED THINGS.
SAME THING WITH CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS FOR COLUMNS, RAILS, BALLADE, UH, LET'S DO SOME RESEARCH ON THAT SO THAT WE CAN AT LEAST, WE CAN AT LEAST FRAME IT WITH WHAT OTHERS ARE DOING AS FAR AS IT STARTING POINT.
WELL, AND, AND I WILL SAY, THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE RICH PERSON'S GAME AND MY OWN FEELING IS THAT WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE ALLOWED AT THE ASSIST SHINGLES THAT IF IT HAD A METAL ROOF, IT NEEDED TO KEEP THEM OUT.
AND, AND I, I'M NOT SURE I DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT WE DID.
AND SO NOW WE'D SAY IT HAS TO BE THIS, WHICH IS PRETTY EXPENSIVE OR THIS, WHICH IS NOT VERY EXPENSIVE.
WELL, I WONDER IF WE CAN BACK OUT THREE SINGLE TURN.
I HAVE REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION.
THE LAST ONE IS SUGGESTIONS TO IMPROVE OR SPEED THE APPLICATION AND APPROVAL PROCESS.
AND I WILL OFFER ONES WE'VE GOT TO GO FASTER IN MEETING.
UM, DO WE HAVE TO READ EVERY, DO WE HAVE TO READ THIS DONE? LOOK AT EVERY PICTURE? NO, THE HISTORY OF THE BOOK, OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE.
BUT I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK, I MEAN, I, I THINK THAT'S NOT A BAD THING, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT AFFECTS THE, THE, THE PROCESS.
I MEAN, WE'RE THERE AND WHETHER IT TAKES THE APPLICANTS THERE TOO, WELL, IT TAKES AN HOUR.
AND THE WHOLE SCHEME OF THINGS, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO GET IN FRONT OF THE BOARD IN A MONTH OR SIX WEEKS, IT'S PRETTY GOOD GENERALLY.
I, I WOULD SAY MY COMPLAINT ABOUT THE MEETINGS, IT IT IS ABOUT US.
THAT THEY'RE, THEY CAN GET BEFORE US IN SIX WEEKS AND, AND GENERALLY GET RESOLUTION.
I HAVE SERIOUS LEGALISTIC QUESTIONS ABOUT IF THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING, HOW IS IT THAT MATT CAN PRESENT FREQUENTLY, INACCURATELY, FREQUENTLY POORLY, WHAT THE PERSON IS APPLYING FOR, AND THEN TURN AROUND AND COMMENT ON IT? THAT SEEMS COMPLETELY CONTRARY TO THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE, TIM AND I HAVE HAD A DISCUSSION THAT, YOU KNOW, WE USED TO DO A LOT MORE OF THAT WORK OURSELVES ANALYSIS OF WHAT GUIDELINES APPLY, WHAT CONCERNS ARE THE EVENTS FOR OUR BENEFIT.
SAY LIKE LAST WEEK WHEN WE WERE AT, AT CITY HALL
[01:20:01]
AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, I THINK IT WAS THE QUEEN STREET, WE HAD ALREADY GONE THROUGH EVERYTHING.THERE WAS JUST A FEW LITTLE CHANGES THAT THEY BROUGHT BACK.
WHY SINCE WE, ALL OF US THERE HAD SEEN THE, THE ORIGINAL, WHY DO WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE THING AGAIN INSTEAD POINTING OUT THE CHANGES.
ONE THING THAT'S ON THAT'S MIND IS THAT'S BEING VIDEOTAPED AND THAT'S ONLY RECORD OF THAT HEARING.
SO, SO WHEN SOMEONE WERE TO DO AN APPEAL OR, OR CHALLENGE, ALL THIS STUFF IS ON THE RECORD.
WELL, BUT IT'S ON THE RECORD FROM THE DESIGNER MEETING.
ALL IT HAS TO SAY ONLY RECENTLY.
NOW IT IS NOW IT'S NOW IT, NOW IT'S, YES.
BUT IN A CASE LIKE THE QUEEN STREET HOUSE, ALL THAT HAS TO BE SAID AT FIRST IS, THIS WAS ALL TALKED ABOUT AT THE PREVIOUS MEETING AND, AND THAT'S MADE STIPULATED AS PART OF THE RECORD HERE TONIGHT.
SEE THAT THAT'S SITE NOW THAT IT'S, WELL NOW THAT'S IF THEY'RE NOT SWORN, NOBODY'S SWORN A DESIGN REVIEW.
WELL THIS WAS NOT DESIGN REVIEW.
NO, I'M, BUT IF IT'S REPORTED WE HAVE, WE HAVE DOCUMENTATION OF IT.
SO WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY THIS WAS NOTED PREVIOUSLY.
THESE ARE THE CH NOW WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS UPCOMING CHANGES.
SEE, WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS HONOR DO NOT ALL THE TIME, BUT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE IT COME COURT.
THE COUNTY IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST OFFENDERS.
WELL WE ALSO OUGHT TO BE SAYING, I SHOULD BE SAYING, DOES EVERYBODY COMFORTABLE WITH THE CHANGES REPRESENTED HERE OR DOES IT NEED TO GO BACK TO A DESIGNER? YEAH, I UNDERSTAND.
TO, TO DO THE, DO THESE NEW CHANGES CHANGE THE NATURE OF THE APPLICATION.
BUT ELENA, YOUR POINT AT, AT, AT SOME LEVEL IN THE QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING, WE DO NEED TO AT LEAST HIT THE HIGH POINTS AND LAY OUT WHAT THE PROJECT IS.
A WE CAN'T RELY ON WHAT THE WORK SECTION THAT'S IMPORTANT.
BUT I THINK GOING THROUGH AND THEN THIS IS THIS AND GOING THROUGH EVERY MEASUREMENT AND I JUST THINK IT'S, IT'S INEFFICIENT PROCESSING.
AND SOMEONE WHO SAT ON MANY BOARDS OVER MY, MY CAREER, I JUST, I DON'T THINK AND JUST LIKE FORWARD TALKING.
I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.
I I, I THINK THOUGH, AS TIM'S POINTING OUT, WE NEED TO DO ENOUGH SO THAT IT'S DEFENDABLE OUR DECISION AND WE CAN, WE CAN DO A SUMMARY, A BULLET POINT SUMMARY.
SO I, I AGREE A SUMMARY AND I THINK THE FOCUS SHOULD BE ON, OKAY, HERE'S WHERE THINGS DON'T EXACTLY FIT.
THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED TO FOCUS.
AS OPPOSED TO GOING THROUGH THE WHOLE THING.
SAY, OKAY, WE, WE'VE LOOKED AT THIS, HERE ARE THE PARTS THAT WE REALLY SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO.
ARE THESE DOCUMENTS SCAN SCANNED INTO THE REPORT OR CAN THEY BE, YOU KNOW, ON, ON FILM WHICH DOCUMENTS? WELL ARE ALL THE ONES ARE AGENDA IS OUR APPLICANT'S.
WELL IT, IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE I ASK THE QUESTION, DOES THE APPLICANT EVER GET A COPY OF THE MOTION? NO.
SO ALL THE TIME WE SPEND LISTING 26 THINGS.
AND ALSO THAT IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LANDSCAPING, I, I GET IT.
THAT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE WE GOT HERE, IF IT'S CONSIDERED PARKING LOT APPROVED LANDSCAPING, THAT'S GOOD.
I DON'T NEED TO KNOW THE LATIN, YOU KNOW, NAME FOR IT.
AND, AND THE FACT THAT IT'S A DWARF OF, OF HYBRID OF THIS.
I MEAN IT'S JUST, I I SAW YOU TAKING NOTES ON THAT, BUT IT IS THE RECORD OF THE MEETING AND WE CAN ONLY DECIDE BASED ON WHAT'S PRESENTED IN THE EVIDENCE.
WOULD THAT RECORD BE SCANNED INTO THE MEETING? THIS DOCUMENTATION? THE PART OF THE PART OF THE RECORD? WELL, I THINK MAYBE ON THE, WITHOUT, WITHOUT I, IT COULD ME ADMINISTRATOR.
I THINK IT ALREADY IS, IT ALREADY IS MOTION APPLICATIONS.
THE PACKETS THAT YOU GET FOR, FOR THE OFFICIAL MEETING ARE SCANNED IN.
SO THE DOCUMENTATION IS THERE FOR, FOR ARCHIVES OR HISTORICAL, ANYTHING THAT'S PRESENTED AT THE MEETING THAT'S OUTSIDE OF THE PACKET WOULD HAVE TO BE ADDED.
BUT WE, SO WE CAN READ THE PAPERWORK THAT WE GET PRIOR TO THE MEETING AND AFTER MEETING.
AND THAT COULD BE PART THE, WE DON'T NEED TO READ EVERY LINE OF IT, YOU KNOW.
WELL, I'M WONDERING IF WE COULD SAY INSTEAD OF READING 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, WE COULD SAY EXCEPT THE STAFF AS THOSE WRITTEN AND SECTION, THAT'S WHAT WE DO IN EVERY OTHER BOARD.
SO, OR EVEN THE MAJOR HEADLINES, YOU KNOW, WE DISAGREE WITH SECTION WHATEVER ROOFING YOU JUST CALL OUT THE PART YOU DON'T, DON'T NECESSARILY DO.
'CAUSE THAT CAME UP LAST MEETING.
THERE WERE SOME THINGS THERE THAT I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T APPROPRIATE.
SO ANOTHER QUESTION FOR, FOR YOU TWO, SINCE YOU'RE KIND OF CONTROL THE, THE STAFF ADMINISTRATION SIDE OF THIS, ARE YOU POINT TO MOLLY? YEAH.
UH, SO WE, WE'VE GOT THIS THING NOW WHERE WE'VE GOT STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AND WE MAKE A DECISION AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER PIECE THAT COMES BACK,
[01:25:01]
I DON'T KNOW, ANYWHERE FROM THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING TO, YOU KNOW, THREE MONTHS DOWN THE LINE.COULD THAT NOT BE, COULD, COULD SOMEONE NOT PUT THEIR HEAD TOGETHER AND FIGURE OUT HOW STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS IS A DRAFT OF THE WRITTEN DECISION? YES.
SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A REPLICATION OF BASICALLY THE SAME THING.
SO I DON'T WANNA SPEND A, A WHOLE LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HAVING AN EFFICIENCY MEETING.
JAMIE HAS STEPPED IN AND IS HELPING COACH STAFF A LITTLE BIT WITHOUT GETTING IN TOO MANY STAFF ISSUES.
BUT I THINK HEARING SOME OF THESE FRUSTRATIONS, UM, IN A, IN A EFFICIENCY MEETING WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE.
MAYBE A, JUST AT A STAFF LEVEL WE'VE ALWAYS, I WILL SAY THIS IT, SCOTT AND JAMIE HAVE MENTIONED THAT WE DO NEED TO LIST SPECIFICS IN THE WRITTEN DECISION.
AND WHILE IT IS POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD HAVE A DRAFT THAT'S READY AT THE MEETING, THAT DRAFT WILL NOT INCLUDE ANY CONDITIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE ADDED ON THAT WEREN'T PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED AND APPROVED.
ANY SPECIFIC INFORMATION THAT'S DIFFERENT.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE CONVINCED THE APPLICANT TO CHANGE SOMETHING, THE DECISION'S NOT GONNA REFLECT THAT.
WHY WOULD THE CONDITIONS NOT BE INCLUDED? 'CAUSE THAT'S PART, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S PART THEY ARE, BUT WE CAN'T HAVE 'EM DRAFTED REPORT WHILE WHY THEY, THEY, THEY ARE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS.
WELL, WE CAN RECOMMEND CONDITIONS.
YOU ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO ATTACH CONDITIONS THAT AREN'T RECOMMENDED BY STAFF.
THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT CAN'T BE IN A, A GRAPH BECAUSE YOU, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE YET.
BUT, BUT I WILL SAY THAT ONCE THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION HAS ITEMIZED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE GUIDELINES, I THINK IT'S SUFFICIENT TO SAY IN THE MOTION AS OUTLINED IN THE YES.
SO, YOU KNOW, AND ANOTHER, I GUESS ANOTHER BIGGER ISSUE IS THAT THE COMMISSION HAS, HAS NEVER TRIED TO DICTATE HOW STAFF DOES THEIR JOB.
SO WE KIND OF STAYED OUT OF IT.
AND I KNOW THAT STATE STATUTES AND REQUIREMENTS AND SO STUFF LIKE THAT HAS CHANGED QUITE A BIT.
UM, AND IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE REQUIREMENTS ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN THEY USED TO BE.
BUT STILL, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE JUST KIND OF LEFT THE WHOLE EFFICIENCY THING BEHIND AND WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN TOO MUCH PAPERWORK AND TOO MANY DETAILS THAT JUST, YOU KNOW, DON'T LEAD TO ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH OUR DECISION.
I'LL, I'LL GET THIS MEETING SO THAT THIS YEAH.
SCOTT HAS SAID CONSISTENTLY THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE APPROVING AND WHAT WE CONSIDER THE DESIGN REVIEW, NOT JUST AS WE DID TALK TO THE DESIGNER.
THAT DOESN'T EXIST IN SWORN TESTIMONY.
SO THE MORE YOU CAN PICK ONE UP AND SAY, WELL I LIKE THE WAY THEY DID THIS, OR I LIKE THAT, WHICH MEET THE PROBLEM.
HONESTLY, I WOULD BENEFIT FROM A CONVERSATION WITH JAMIE AND SCOTT BECAUSE, UH, THERE WERE THINGS AT ONE POINT IN TIME, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THEY WERE SAYING ABSOLUTELY NEEDED TO, TO HAPPEN AT THESE MEETINGS WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT HOW TO MAKE 'EM FASTER.
WHEN YOU AND I WERE LIKE, THIS IS CRAZY, THEY'RE SO LONG.
AND, UH, THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF RESISTANCE AND THERE WAS A REASON FOR THAT.
AND I, THEY SEEM TO BE CHANGING THEIR TUNE.
I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST GOT HERE THREE YEARS AGO, IT USED TO NOT BE JUST READING 5.1, 5.2, 5.3.
IT WAS 5.1 IN ALL THE WORDS FOLLOWING 5.1.
UH, IS, IS THERE A CAP ON, AND I KNOW THIS IS NOT AT THE BENEFIT OF THE CITIZEN COMING FORWARD WITH THEIR COA, BUT IS THERE A CAP ON HOW MANY CASES WE CAN LOOK AT PER, PER MEETING? THERE IS.
SO WE, WE TALKED ABOUT AND, AND WE HADN'T HAD ONE WITH AS MANY AS THE LAST MEETING IN A WHILE.
UM, AND WE HAD ASKED MATT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU FEEL LIKE THE AGENDA'S GETTING TOO BIG, LET US KNOW.
WE DIDN'T WANNA SET A CUT AND DRY.
'CAUSE SOMETIMES YOU'VE GOT THINGS THAT TAKE 10 MINUTES.
WELL HE, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD'VE BEEN NICE TO KNOW THERE WAS TWO DEMOS ON WITH EVERYTHING ELSE LAST TIME.
'CAUSE THAT'S GONNA GENERATE A LONGER CONVERSATION AS IT SHOULD.
UM, AND HE HAS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON HIM NOT TO DELAY PEOPLE IS TYPICALLY AFRAID TO NOT, IT'S USUALLY FRUSTRATING TO ME IF SOMEONE WANTING IT APPLICATION, YOU KNOW, APPLICATION.
YOU GOTTA WAIT AN EXTRA MONTH BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MANY PEOPLE IN FRONT OF, A LOT OF PEOPLE PUT IT IN LATE LIKE THE DAY BEFORE YOU STOP TAKING IT, STOP TAKING THOSE.
THAT WAS AN EFFICIENCY IMPROVEMENT.
I SAID, MATT, NO, THERE'S A HARD DEADLINE
[01:30:01]
FOR, FOR ACTUALLY BEING ON THE, AND ALTHOUGH, ALTHOUGH YOU KNOW, TO TO OUR DISCREDIT A COUPLE OF THOSE THAT CAME UP LAST TIME DESIGN REVIEW, WE SAID, AH, CAN WE JUST GO AHEAD AND PUT THOSE ON THE NEXT MEETING WHEN PROBABLY SHOULD COME BACK, SAY YEAH, DEVELOPED THIS MORE FROM FOR THE NEXT MONTH.I'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH MATT AND WE HAVE INSTITUTED THIS SUBMITTAL DATE, UH, RIGHT.
AND IT'S UNFORTUNATELY IS NOT HERE, BUT, UH, YEAH.
AND ONE OF THE OPTIONS THAT YOU HAVE, OR WHAT YOU DID LAST MEETING IS YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO, HE CAN PUT IT ON THE AGENDA, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO HEAR IT.
YOU CAN CONTINUE THOSE ITEMS TO A DATE CERTAIN, WHICH IS THE NEXT MEETING.
SO, WELL THIS IS JUST DESIGN INTERVIEW AND HE'S TYPICALLY TRYING SOME OF THEM TO SPIN 'EM UP AS FAST AS THE NEXT MEETING.
NOW IF, IF YOU AS A BOARD WANT TO DIRECT THAT, YOU KNOW, NOTHING BE ADDED AFTER A SUBMITTAL DATE FOR DESIGN REVIEW, YOU KNOW THAT AS A BOARD YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT BECAUSE THAT'S ITEMS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR.
THE OTHER THING WAS, THIS IS FOR MY OWN EDUCATION AS WELL AS A NEW MEMBER, UM, WHEN SOMEONE IS, IS GOING TO DO A DEMOLITION, WHY DO WE HA WHY IS IT IN WRITING THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE, UM, PLANS FOR THE, UM, THE FEL? WHY? I MEAN, BECAUSE TO ME, WELL ONE, IT IT DOES PROLONG IT, BUT THAT'S NOT EVEN THE BIG PART.
BUT THE PART OF IT, IF YOU'RE GONNA SAY NO, UM, NOW YOU CANNOT TEAR THIS DOWN AND YOU'VE GOTTA, YOU KNOW, REFURBISH IT.
I'VE JUST SPENT THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR AN ARCHITECT TO, UM, TO BUILD PLANS FOR MY WELL, BUT, BUT WE KNOW HOW THIS IS SUPPOSED TO WORK.
ONE IS, ONE IS DEMOLITION ONLY DEMOLITION.
THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE WHAT'S GOING A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN BEFORE THE DEMOLITION PERIOD.
I THOUGHT THAT THEY SAID THAT.
IT WAS WRITTEN THIS WAY ON PURPOSE FOR THAT.
DEMOLITION HAS A STAND ON ITS OWN.
WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU'RE GONNA PUT BACK.
DEMOLITION HAS A STAND ON ITS OWN.
SO YOU CAN WAIT TO DO YOUR REDEVELOPMENT PLAN AND YOU CAN WAIT TO SEE WHETHER WE APPROVE IT OR NOT.
WITH THE CAVEAT, YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY DO THE DEMO.
AND THE REASON, MAYBE THAT'S WHY I WAS CONFUSED BECAUSE I HEARD MATT SAY, OH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE PLANS IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE IT.
BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY START TEARING IT DOWN, YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT APPROVED, BUT YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND GET APPROVAL FOR THE DEMOLITION.
SO THAT, SO THAT IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN INFILL PLAN, THE PEOPLE COULD JUST COME IN AND OKAY, I WANT TO DEMOLISH THAT.
WE APPROVE IT AND THEN NOW WE'RE STUCK WITH AN EMPTY LOT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO THAT.
NOW A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN COULD SIMPLY BE I'M GONNA GRADE THE LOT AND PLANT SOME BUSHES AND TURN IT INTO A GARDEN.
AND WE HAD THE RIGHT TO APPROVE OR DENY THAT AS A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN.
AND, AND TECHNICALLY, I MEAN WE APPROVED THE REDEVELOPMENT AND IT DOESN'T HAPPEN FOR WHATEVER REASON.
IT'S STILL TOING DOWN THE HOUSE, BUT AT LEAST THERE IS A, YOU HAVE TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT.
I JUST, BECAUSE I WAS HEARING MATT SAY, WELL YOU CAN'T COME HERE WITHOUT A RE YEAH.
I MEAN ONE WE TURNED DOWN HAD THE ONE THAT CRAVEN AND NORTH, NORTH CRAVEN 1 0 4 QUEEN THAT DIDN'T UH, THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANY REPLACEMENT DESIGN.
THEY JUST WANTED TO TEAR IT DOWN.
THEY HAD SOMETHING TO SCROLL ON THE BACK OF A NAPKIN.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT DAVID FRENCH? NO, HE'S TALKING ABOUT ONE CRAVEN QUEEN.
AND I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE WITH ME TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT.
IDEALLY WE WOULD, BECAUSE IT WAS A GOOD QUESTION.
YOU DON'T WANT TO GET SO ENAMORED OF WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO THAT YOU SAY, LET'S
OTHER'S GONNA WAIT WAY
AND IT'LL, THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK AND
I DID HEAR DID GET OUT TO THAT NEW STREET ONE.
SO, SO JESS AND ROBERT, UM, I THINK YOU'RE BOTH AWARE THAT YES, WE WANT TO TRY TO BE TIME EFFICIENT AND, YOU KNOW, TRY TO PROCESS COA APPLICATIONS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DEMOLITION.
'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE REALLY NEED TO STAMP ON THE BRAKES AND TAKE AS MUCH TIME AS WE NEED.
BECAUSE IF YOU TEAR IT DOWN, YOU'RE DONE.
AND I
[01:35:01]
RUNS OUT IN OCTOBER.THAT'S, THEY, THEY KNEW RIGHT.
THEY HAD AN IDEA THAT THEY WANTED TO DO THIS PROBABLY MONTHS AGO.
WHY ARE THEY NOW MONTHS, YEARS? YEAH.
FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THOSE TWO PARTICULAR HOMES, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD THE IDEA THAT THEY WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY REBUILD, RECONSTRUCT, REHABILITATE OR WHATEVER THEY WERE GONNA DO.
AND WHEN THEY STARTED TEARING INTO IT, THEY SAW THE TERMITE IDENTITY.
I, I THINK FOR SURE THE ONE, WELL ACTUALLY BOTH, I THINK BOTH OF
THIS ISN'T GONNA WORK, BUT MY RECOMMENDATION FOR EFFICIENCIES, I'VE BEEN IN THE P*****K STREET HOUSE AND IT PASSES THE FAT BOY TEST FOR
BUT ANYWAY, THE OTHER ONE IS, UH, IF THERE WAS A SMALL RECOMMENDATION THAT I CAN MAKE FOR EFFICIENCIES, IT'S ADHERING TO THE SUBMITTAL DAVE SUBMISSION POLICY FOR DESIGN REVIEW, JUST AS YOU DO FOR THE OFFICIAL MEETING.
BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO WALK UP AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH YOU, THAT'S GOING TO BE A, A VARIABLE THAT YOU CANNOT CONTROL.
BUT WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY, YEAH, WE, THIS ALL IS GOOD.
WE'LL SEE AGAIN NEXT DESIGN REVIEW NOW THAT WE'VE HAD TALK ABOUT IT AS OPPOSED TO PUSHING FORWARD IN TWO WEEKS.
I MEAN, IT COULD BE A VERY SIMPLE THING AND SAY, YEP, THIS, THIS, WELL, I I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO REQUIRE THAT THEY HAVE SOMETHING BEFORE THEY WALK IN.
UM, AND THAT WE NEED SOME KIND OF DEADLINE ABOUT THAT.
SO WE HAVE ABSOLUTE ANSWERS ON WHAT DOES AND DOES NOT NEED TO BE VERBALLY STATED AND WHAT CAN BE ADAPTED BY ADAPTING SOMETHING PREVIOUSLY PUT TOGETHER.
BUT I WANT THAT TO COME FROM, FROM JAMIE AND I I HEAR YOU.
KNOW IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A LOT'S BEEN DONE.
ROBERT HAS MADE A LOT OF MINOR CHANGES ON SOME OF THESE THINGS AND, AND, AND YOU KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT 'EM AND JIM AND I HAVE DEFINITELY TALKED ABOUT THIS, BUT I WILL SAY, I MEAN THE MEETINGS ARE TOO LONG.
YEARS AGO YOU MIGHT NOT ANY RECOMMENDATION EXCEPT FOR MIKE, YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH.
WE HAD TO SIT THERE AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE, SO ANOTHER, WE GOTTA THANK YOU ABOUT THAT.
BUT SO WE'RE, WE'RE WAY OVER TIME.
SO THE ONLY THING I WAS GONNA SAY IS RICHARD ON YOURS, IS THAT I, I UNDERSTAND THE SUBMITTAL HAS SOMETHING, BUT DESIGN REVIEW IS, I UNDERSTAND IF SOMEONE HAS AN IDEA ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO, I'M THINKING ABOUT DOING SOMETHING ON MY PROPERTY, THEY COULD TALK TO MATT OR THEY COULD COME TO DESIGN REVIEW AND JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT THOUGHTS DO PEOPLE HAVE? OR, YOU KNOW, I'M THINKING ABOUT DOING THIS.
IS ANYBODY, WHAT STANDARDS DO I NEED? IS, IS, IS, IS THAT NOT WHAT DESIGN REVIEW IS? OR WE'RE ABLE TO JUST TALK WITH PEOPLE ABOUT POTENTIAL PROJECTS THAT THEY ARE, OR NATIONAL AVENUE CAME AND SAID, WHAT DO I NEED TO DO? THAT'S ALL THEY SAID.
I MEAN, THERE, THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THIS WAS A VERY LAID BACK SHOW UP, ASK QUESTION MEETINGS.
AND FROM THE CHANGE OF THE LOCATION AND THE STATE LAWS AND SOME OF OUR INTERPRETATIONS FROM LEGAL, IT'S FAR LESS OF AN INFORMAL MEETING THAN IT USED TO BE.
WELL, AND I DO THINK THAT MOVING TO CITY HALL VERY MUCH CHANGES THE TENOR OF EVERYTHING LIKE THAT TOO.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SAY YOU HAVE TO COME UP AND TALK IN THE MICROPHONE.
YOU STAND THERE IN A MICROPHONE IN FRONT OF A RAISED PANEL OF PEOPLE.
I WOULD LIKE TO SAY TOO THAT I THINK THE EXPECTATION FOR THEM, 'CAUSE WE DON'T TELL 'EM THAT AT THE BEGINNING.
IT'S MAYBE HAVING SOMEONE COMING, WHETHER IT'S MATT OR YOU KNOW, OR JIM OR, UM, TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHAT'S GONNA BE EXPECTED.
BECAUSE I THINK IT'S ALMOST KIND OF EMBARRASSING FOR THEM.
THEY'RE LIKE, HEY, YOU INTIMIDATING THAT.
AND WHEN YOU'RE STANDING IN FRONT OF THESE PEOPLE IN THEIR SEATS UP THERE JUST TO SAY, THIS IS WHAT'S, HOW IT'S GONNA GO.
AND JUST TO GIVE 'EM A LITTLE SPIEL.
I DON'T, I WAS THINKING MAYBE INVITE THEM UP AT THE BEGINNING YEAH.
AND EXPLAIN THAT THAT'S THE REASON IS SO THEY CAN BE, WHEN IT IS YOUR TURN, WE'D LIKE FOR YOU TO COME TO THE MIC.
SO WE HAND 'EM A GLASS OF WINE WHEN THEY COME.
WE GOT THANK YOU FROM ONE OF THE APPLICANTS.
THEY SAID WE APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS WERE INTERESTED, ASKED THE RIGHT QUESTIONS AND HELPED GIVE US GUIDANCE.