Apr 15, 2026 Historic Preservation Commission

START WITH HEARINGS ON CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE.

THERE.

ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA? FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA? THERE ARE NO MINUTES TO APPROVE TONIGHT.

SO WE'LL

[4.A. HEARINGS: INTRODUCTION, SWEARING-IN, SUMMARY OF PROCESS 1. Introduction of Hearings and Rules of Procedure 2. Swearing-In of Speakers 3. Summary of the Hearing Process]

I'LL DO FOR FIRST, UH, INTRODUCTION.

HERE'S A SUMMARY OF HOW WE WILL GENERALLY CONDUCT A HEARING ON A COA APPLICATION.

THE HBC ADMINISTRATOR PROVIDES AN OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION THE APPLICANT OR REPRESENTATIVE PRESENTS THE APPLICATION, AND THEN PROPONENTS AND PROPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.

REBUTTAL IS ALLOWED BY THE APPLICANT AND BY PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE.

OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION WILL BE THAT AND WILL BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED, CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.

THE HBC ADMINISTRATOR PRESENTS THE STAFF'S FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS.

THE APPLICANT OR REPRESENTATIVE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE FINAL COMMENTS ON THEIR APPLICATION.

THEN THE COMMISSIONERS WILL DISCUSS THE EVIDENCE AND MAY ASK FOR CLARIFICATION FROM THE APPLICANT OR PRESENTERS.

THE CHAIRMAN CALLS FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE OR DENY THE APPLICATION WITH STATED FINDINGS OF FACT.

THE MOTION IS THEN DISCUSSED BY THE COMMISSIONERS.

THE CHAIRMAN CALLS FOR A VOTE BY THE COMMISSION AND THE COMMISSION.

THE APPLICATION CAN BE APPROVED, APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS OR DENIED.

WITH THAT, JIM, CAN YOU BRING YOUR, JIM, CAN YOU BRING YOUR MICROPHONE A LITTLE CLOSER? OKAY.

SWEARING IN OF SPEAKERS.

ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TONIGHT, PLEASE COME FORWARD.

IS THAT BETTER, MIKE? MATT, IS THAT A BETTER MIKE? YES.

SO IF YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE THE WHOLE TRUTH? I DO.

I DO.

MR. SHELLEY, OKAY, FIRST ONE IS FIVE 15 QUEEN.

NOW, EVERYONE WHO SAID THAT, IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY SIGNED OR PLACED YOUR NAME HERE, PLEASE ADD YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT, I'LL DO THE INTRODUCTION TO THE START OF HEARINGS.

THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION IS A PUBLIC COMMISSION APPOINTED BY THE CITY OF NEW BERN'S BOARD OF ALDERMAN.

IT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PRESERVING AND SAFEGUARDING NEW BERN'S, LOCALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICTS, BOTH DOWNTOWN AND RIVERSIDE, BASED ON US DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, STATE STATUTES, CITY ORDINANCES, AND NEW BERN'S HISTORIC DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

TWO OF THE MAJOR TASKS OF THE HBC INCLUDE APPROVING APPLICATIONS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND PREVENTING DEMOLITION OF HISTORIC STRUCTURES DUE TO NEGLECT, THE HBC HOLDS A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING ON AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

THE COMMISSION HERE IS SWORN TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, BY PARTIES WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING AND BY OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT HAVE RELEVANT EVIDENCE AND ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE APPLICATION.

THE COMMISSION CANNOT CONSIDER COMMENTS BASED ON PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES, HEARSAY OR PERSONAL OPINION.

THAT CANNOT BE DIRECTLY, DIRECTLY, DIRECTLY RELATED TO SPECIFIC HISTORIC PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

LIKEWISE, COMMISSIONERS SHALL REFRAIN FROM STATING PERSONAL OPINION, PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES OR HEARSAY DURING A HEARING.

THE COMMISSION'S DECISION ON APPLICATIONS BASED SOLELY ON TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT A HEARING THAT DIRECTLY RELATES TO THE HISTORIC DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

WITH THAT,

[4.B. 515 Queen St. – to include removal of the rear screened porch, replacement with a new sunroom and screened porch addition, and a ground-level patio in the Tertiary AVC.]

SO THIS IS THE, UH, APPLICATION FOR FIVE 15 QUEEN STREET FOR, UM, MICHAEL AND JEANETTE RAY, UH, AND THE APPLICANT FOR THEM IS GO

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ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN.

UH, YOU CAN SEE THE INFORMATION THEY FILLED OUT ON THE APPLICATION AND THE, UH, GO ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN.

SARAH LERACH FOR GO ARCHITECTURAL HAS, UH, SIGNED HERE AT THE BOTTOM AND SHE IS WITH THIS DOCUMENT HERE, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, OWNER'S AUTHORIZATION, UH, AUTHORIZED TO SIGN AND SPEAK FOR THE, UH, OWNERS, AND THAT IS SIGNED, DATED, AND NOTARIZED BY THE OWNERS.

SO, UM, AS AN INTRODUCTION TO THE PROJECT, UH, HERE'S AN AERIAL VIEW OF, UH, THE SITE, AND IT'S INTENDED TO SHOW A LITTLE BIT BEYOND THE PROPERTY LINES IN CASE THERE ARE ANY ISSUES, UM, REGARDING THAT.

THEN, UH, SORRY.

THEN THE NEXT ONE IS A ZOOM IN TO LOOK AT MORE CLOSELY ON THE SITE, AS BEST AS THE AERIAL PROVIDES.

UM, AND WE ARE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING THIS BACK AREA OF THE, UH, OF THE HOUSE AND THIS AND THE SITE.

SO THESE ARE, THIS IS A, UH, STREET VIEW IMAGE FROM 2019 OF THE HOUSE.

IT'S ONE OF THE BETTER PHOTOS THAT ARE AVAILABLE, UH, SHOWING NOT JUST THE HOUSE, BUT ALSO THE ADDITION ON THE BACK WITH THE, UH, EXISTING STAIRWAY OUT THE SIDE.

UM, AND THEN, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED QUITE A FEW OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS.

THIS IS ACTUALLY FROM THEM, THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.

UM, SO WE HAVE AN IDEA AS TO THE CHARACTER OF THE OVERALL BUILDING.

AND, UH, TO NOTE HERE, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S ACTUALLY TWO FRONT DOORS, UH, AND, UH, THE DESCRIPTION FROM THE, UH, NATIONAL REGISTER IS, UH, THAT IT'S A CONTRIBUTING BUILDING AND BUILT IN THE 19TH CENTURY.

AND, UH, THIS WAS WRITTEN IN 2003, AND THEY DESCRIBE IT AS A DUPLEX, TWO STORIES, SIX BAYS WIDE AT THE FIRST LEVEL WITH ALTERNATING WINDOW DOOR, WINDOW DOOR, WINDOW ARRANGEMENT, AND ET CETERA, ABOUT MORE OF THE, UH, CHARACTERISTICS OF THE BUILDING.

UH, SO WE ALSO LOOK AT THE, UH, HISTORY OF THE PROPERTY AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

SO ON THE 1913 SANBORN MAPS, IT SHOWS UP ON THEIR MAPS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 1913.

AND IT'S ACTUALLY THIS, UH, PAIR HERE, UH, CALLED, I GUESS IT'S 43 A AND B.

UM, AND YOU CAN SEE INDEED BACK THEN IT WAS A, A DUPLEX.

WE HAVE A DWELLING ON, ONE SIDED DWELLING ON THE OTHER, AND AT THAT TIME, ONLY TINY LITTLE STOOPS, SO TO SAY, FOR EACH ONE OF THEM.

THEY ALSO SHOW THOSE OR TWO STORY, UM, OUT FRONT THIS PORTION, AND THEN A ONE STORY, UM, SECTION IN THE BACK, AND WE'LL SEE THAT.

THEN ALSO IN THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDING OVER TIME, IT BECAME A SINGLE DWELLING, AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TODAY.

THE APPLICANT'S, UH, NOW, UH, DOCUMENT FOR THE DRAWINGS IS, UH, STARTS HERE.

AND THEY ALSO PROVIDED A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS THAT KIND OF GO WALK AROUND THE OUTSIDE OF, OF THE HOUSE FIRST, THE FRONT, THEN THE LEFT SIDE, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SHOW SAW EARLIER.

THEN AS YOU CONTINUE AROUND THAT SIDE, PAST THAT REAR, UH, STAIRWAY, YOU CAN SEE THE SCREENED IN PORCH.

UH, THIS IS THE PORCH, THE SCREENED IN PORCH THAT WILL BE REMOVED AND THEN, UH, UH, REPLACED WITH THE NEW CONSTRUCTION OR THE PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION.

SO, AND THEN ON THE RIGHT SIDE, UM, HERE YOU CAN SEE THE TWO STORY PORTION, AND THEN THE ONE STORY ADDITION.

UH, LET'S SEE, THAT'S NOT, UH, THAT'S NOT REALLY TO BE DISTURBED OTHER THAN THE ROOFING.

I, UH, OVER THAT PORTION.

SO THIS IS NOW THE SITE PLAN, WHICH INCLUDES THE FLOOR PLAN.

AND, UH, THIS SHOWS THE, UH, THE REAR PORCH BEING REMOVED AND THE NEW ENCLOSED ROOM, A SUNROOM BEING, UH, CONSTRUCTED THERE, THAT'S SOMEWHAT DEEPER THAN THE EXISTING SUN PORCH OR SCREEN PORCH, SORRY.

AND THEN THEY WILL BE ADDING A NEW SCREEN PORCH, UH, ONTO THE BACK OF THE SUNROOM.

UH, AND THEN THIS DARK SHADED AREA HERE IS ACTUALLY A PATIO ON THE GROUND AFTER YOU GO DOWN THESE STEPS OF, OUT OF THE, UH, SCREENED PORCH.

AND ALSO TO NOTE THERE IS, THERE IS A FIVE FOOT DIMENSION

[00:10:01]

TO THE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS THE MINIMUM, BUT IT IS AN ALLOWED DISTANCE.

SO THEN, UM, THIS IS ACTUALLY THE EXISTING FLOOR PLAN SHOWING THE DEMOLITION, UH, OF THE SCREEN PORCH, AND THEN THE DEMOLITION FROM THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE PORCH ROOF, OF COURSE, AND THEN ALSO THE REMOVAL OF THE ROOFING FOR THIS, UH, ONE STORY PORTION OF THE BUILDING.

AND HERE YOU CAN QUITE, UH, OBVIOUSLY SEE, UH, HOW IT HAD BEEN A DUPLEX AT ONE POINT WITH A PARTY WALL IN BETWEEN.

SO NOW THIS IS THE NEW PLAN, THE PROPOSED PLAN.

UH, SO IN ADDITION TO RE REMOVING, UH, THE, THE REAR PORCH, THEY WILL BE REMOVING A PORTION OF THE EXTERIOR WALL IN ORDER TO OPEN UP THE KITCHEN AND EXPAND THAT AREA INTO THE SUNROOM.

UH, AND THEN WE SEE THE SCREENED IN PORCH ON THE BACK HERE AND THE, THE STAIRS AND THE PATIO.

UH, THERE'S ALSO A, AN ADDITIONAL, UH, OUTDOOR STAIRWAY, UH, FROM THE SUNROOM DIRECTLY OFF TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE HOUSE OR THE EAST SIDE OF THE HOUSE.

OH, AND THEN, UH, THIS, UH, THIS OTHER ONE SHOWS THE NEW ROOFING THAT WILL BE INSTALLED, UH, OVER ALL OF THAT CONSTRUCTION.

UH, AND, UM, IT'S SHOWN AS, OR DEPICTED AS METAL STANDING SEAM ROOFING.

SO THIS IS THE EXISTING, UH, ELEVATIONS OF THE EXISTING BUILDING, THE FRONT HERE, WHICH WILL REMAIN UNCHANGED.

THEN THE, UH, LEFT SIDE AS WE WALKED AROUND.

UM, THEN, SO WITH THE SCREEN PORCH, THIS IS DASHED IN TO BE REMOVED.

UH, THEN ON THE BACK, AGAIN, THE SCREENED AREA REMOVED AND, UH, THE, UH, THE STAIRS ON THAT SIDE AS WELL.

THEN AS YOU GO AROUND TO THE OTHER SIDE, AGAIN, IT SHOWS YOU THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SCREEN PORCH AND NOT, UH, BEING REMOVED.

SO NOW THIS IS THE PROPOSED.

THE FRONT IS EXACTLY THE SAME.

THE SIDE, UH, UH, SHOWS, UM, THE CHANGES ON THE BACK WHERE THE, UH, SCREEN PORCH HAD BEEN IS NOW THE SCREEN, UH, THE SUNROOM IN THIS AREA WITH THE SIDE, UH, STAIRWAY AND A SIDE DOOR.

AND THEN ON THE BACK OF THAT SET BACK FROM THIS, UH, QUITE A BIT, UH, IS THE, UH, SCREEN SCREENED, THE NEW SCREENED PORCH, AND THEN THE STAIRWAY OFF OF THAT.

UH, AND THEN FROM THE BACK OVER DOWN HERE, BOTTOM LEFT, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE THIS WITH THE, UM, THE SCREEN PORCH ON THE LEFT AND THEN THE SUNROOM POKING OUT TO THE RIGHT.

AND, UH, BOTH OF THOSE ARE, UH, UH, SETBACK FROM THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT SIDES FOR THE EAST AND THE WEST SIDES, UH, CONSIDERABLY.

SO THAT, UM, ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE HERE, WHICH IS THE EAST SIDE, UH, THE, THERE'S A SMALL LITTLE PORCH OR STOOP OR LANDING, UH, BEFORE GOING IN THE DOOR AND THEN DOWN THE STEPS.

UH, AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, IT'S PRETTY MUCH A REFLECTION OF THE OPPOSITE SIDE, EXCEPT THAT THE SUNROOM HERE DOESN'T HAVE A DOOR AND HAS THESE TWO WINDOWS.

SO ON THESE ELEVATIONS, IT ALSO EXPLAINS THE MATERIALS, UH, THAT, UH, THEY'RE PROPOSING.

AND I'LL ZOOM IN TO THESE, UH, SO THAT WE, WE CAN GET A BETTER IDEA AND READ WHAT IT SAYS.

SO THE NEW SIDING WILL BE WOOD SIDING.

UH, THE NEW WINDOWS WILL BE WOOD WINDOWS WITH, UH, 3D GRILLS INSIDE AND OUT, SO THEY CAN MATCH THE, UH, SIX OVER SIX PATTERN.

UH, THE DOOR IS A WOOD DOOR WITH THE HALF LIGHT, WHICH IS THE HALF, HALF OF THE DOOR IS A GLASS WINDOW.

UM, THE, UM, LET'S SEE.

WE ALSO, IT ALSO SHOWS THE METAL ROOF IS THE FLAT PAN WIDTH, NO GREATER THAN 24 INCHES TYPICAL, WHICH IS WHAT IS, UH, ONE OF OUR REQUIREMENTS.

THE SCREEN PORCH IS POINTED OUT HERE.

AND, UM, THE, IT'S ALSO POINTED OUT PER OUR REQUIREMENTS THAT THE, UH, THE, THE PICKETS AND THE RAILING FOR THE, UH, IN BETWEEN, UH, THE, ON THE TWO SIDES HERE, THE OUTSIDE THE SCREEN, AND THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A DETAIL OF THIS LATER.

UM, THE OTHER THING THAT'S POINTING OUT IS ALL THE PICKETS ARE THREE INCHES APART.

AND THEN, UH, FOR THE NEW FOUNDATION FOR THIS,

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IT'S GOING TO, UH, BE BRICK MASONRY, UH, AND IT WILL MATCH WITH THE EXISTING, UH, FOUNDATION WITH, UH, THE APPEARANCE OF PIERS AT THE CORNERS, UH, BY SETTING BACK, UH, THE INTERMEDIATE PANEL AREA, UH, ONE INCH FROM THE FACE OF THE PIER, AND THEN UNDERNEATH THE SCREEN PORCH, UH, THE SPACE IN BETWEEN THE PIERS WOULD BE FILLED WITH, UH, PRESSURE TREATED STAINED LATTICE.

SO THAT GIVES A GOOD IDEA OF ALL THE MATERIALS.

IT PRETTY MUCH CARRIES THROUGHOUT.

UM, LET'S SEE IF I SEE ANY EXCEPTIONS HERE.

UH, WELL, THERE IS ONE NOTE THAT ALL OF THE, UH, NEW TRIM IS TO MATCH THE DIMENSIONS OF THE EXISTING HOUSE, AND I BELIEVE THAT'S IT.

SO, UM, NOTHING ELSE NEW MATERIAL, MATERIAL WISE THERE.

SO THESE ARE THE DETAILS, UM, OR THE, THE ONE DETAIL THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.

THIS IS SECTION THROUGH THE SCREEN PORCH, UH, SO THAT WE CAN SEE THAT FOR SURE.

THEY ARE PLANNING ON, I'M MOVING IN, SORRY.

WE CAN SEE FOR SURE WITH THIS, UH, NOTE HERE THAT THE PORCH SCREENING IS ON THE INSIDE OF THE RAILING.

SO RUN FROM THE TOP ALL THE WAY TO THE FLOOR, UH, WITH, UH, ON THIS, ON THE INSIDE OF THAT WHOLE STRUCTURE.

UM, LET'S SEE.

THE OTHER ONLY OTHER THINGS ARE THAT THE, UH, THE FOUR LARGE COLUMNS ON THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE PORCH ARE EIGHT BY EIGHT, AND THEY'RE WOOD COLUMNS, UH, AND ALL OF THE OTHER TRIM AND OTHER PIECES ARE CALLED OUT AS WOOD AS WELL, PRESSURE TREATED WOOD.

UM, LET'S SEE.

AND THIS ALSO SHOWS, UH, THAT THE, UH, FOUNDATION IS A BRICK VENEER OVER A CONCRETE MASONRY UNIT.

SO IF YOU SEE 'EM BUILDING A CONCRETE MASONRY UNIT WALLS, UH, DON'T WORRY, THEY'RE GONNA BE PUTTING A BRICK ON THE OUTSIDE OF THAT.

LET'S, WHAT ELSE? THAT'S THE FOUNDATION PLAN.

AND THEN, UH, WHEN YOU'RE READY, I'M READY WITH MY, UH, STAFF REPORT.

SARAH, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT? NO.

GO AHEAD.

WITH YOUR STAFF REPORT, WELL, DON'T YOU HAVE, UH, QUESTIONS FROM THE VARIOUS PARTIES? OKAY.

NOT, NOT THEM IT NOTIFIED PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS.

IS THERE ANY, ANYONE WHO CHOSE WHO'S HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS, WHO HAS RECEIVED NOTICE? IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO IS UNIQUELY AFFECTED BY THIS BUT DID NOT RECEIVE NOTICE? SEEING NONE? OKAY.

ALRIGHT THEN.

SECTION OF NOTATIONS ON THE PLAN, UH, THAT MAY COVER SOME OF THESE RIGHT HERE.

SOMEHOW YOU KNEW THAT .

ALL RIGHT.

SO, UH, I'M GOING TO START WITH, UH, PREFACE, UM, UH, MR. CHAIR MAY, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD FOR THE RECORD STAFF HAS PREPARED A CER CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS STAFF REPORT DATED APRIL 15TH, 2026, WHICH HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO THE APPLICANT AND IS INCLUDED IN THE EVIDENTIARY RECORD FOR TONIGHT'S HEARING.

THE STAFF REPORT SETS FORTH STAFF'S ANALYSIS OF THE APPLICABLE HISTORIC DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, ALONG WITH PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT AND RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS FOR THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION.

WHILE THE REPORT ADDRESSES ALL APPLICABLE STANDARDS, I WOULD LIKE TO BRIEFLY DIRECT THE BOARD'S ATTENTION TO TWO AREAS THAT, UH, REQUIRED CLOSER ANALYSIS BASED ON THE SPECIFICS OF THIS APPLICATION.

THESE PORTIONS OF THE REPORT REFLECT AREAS WHERE STAFF IDENTIFIED QUESTIONS OR CONSIDERATIONS THAT MAY BE PARTICULARLY RELEVANT TO THE BOARD'S EVALUATION OF WHETHER THE PROPOSED WORK IS CON, CONGRUOUS OR INCONGRUOUS WITH THE ADOPTED DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

SO, FIRST, UM, CATEGORY IS SPECIFIC DETAILS AND NOTIFICATIONS, UM, RELATIVELY SMALL ITEMS, BUT ITEMS NEVERTHELESS, UH, A COMPLIANT SECTION DETAIL OF THE STAIR AND LANDING HANDRAILS, UM, IS, UH, NOT INCLUDED IN THIS.

UH, THE, THEY DON'T HAVE A CALL OUT FOR THE WOOD SKIRT BOARD, JUST A NOTATION.

AND THEN ALSO A NOTATION THAT THE WOOD COLUMNS, WINDOWS, AND STAIR HANDRAILS ARE TO BE OPAQUE, STAINED, OR PRIMED AND PAINTED, OR THAT ALL EXTERIOR WOULD BE OPAQUE, STAINED, OR PRIMED AND PAINTED.

UM, TO NOTE IS THAT THERE IS A VERY SMALL

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UH, SO, UM, LET ME GO THROUGH THOSE.

UM, SO, UH, THE RELEVANT ONES, UM, I THINK IT NOTES ON THERE, MATT, THAT THE, UH, THE COLUMNS AND THE SIX AND EVERYTHING ARE TO BE PAINTED.

NUMBER NINE, EXTERIOR COLUMNS TO BE 12 INCH PAINTED WOOD, UH, AND THE, LET'S SEE, PORCH DECKING, UH, NO, THE RAILING IS TO BE PAINTED WOOD TO MATCH EXISTING PICKET SPACED AT THREE INCHES.

WE ALREADY KNOW THAT FROM THE NOTES AND CONFIRMED.

YEAH, SO THAT WAS IT.

SO THAT WAS THE ONLY ONE OUT OF THOSE THAT, UH, WAS PICKED UP ALREADY.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

UH, THEN, UH, THE LAST ONE FOR THIS SECTION ONE IS, UH, IF THERE WILL BE CRAWLSPACE VENTS OR ACCESS DOORS, UH, THAT THEY SHOULD ADD THESE TO THE DRAWING IN COMPLIANT LOCATIONS.

UH, SOMETIMES PEOPLE AREN'T DOING THAT, UH, SO MUCH, THEY'RE TRYING TO CONDITION THE ACTUAL CRAWLSPACE.

SO, UH, WE CAN ASK THE APPLICANT, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS THE CASE.

AND THEN THE SECOND CATEGORY, JUST TWO ITEMS UNDER THERE, IS REGA REGARDING UTILITY AND EXTERIOR LIGHTING INFORMATION.

UM, IT SEEMED THE UTILITIES ARE LOCATED RIGHT AT THE CORNERS OF THIS PROJECT, SO THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE DISTURBED, AND IF SO, OR IF THEY'RE JUST PLANNED TO MOVE THEM, THAT THEY SHOULD INDICATE THAT ON THE PLANS.

AND SECONDLY, IF THE, UH, IF THERE'S ANY NEW EXTERIOR LIGHTING TO BE ADDED, THAT THEY SHOULD INDICATE THAT ON THE PLANS TOO.

SO I WILL, I WON'T READ THE REPORT IN ITS ENTIRETY, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO READ SOME SMALL PORTIONS AND I'M AVAILABLE TO CLARIFY, UH, THE ANALYSIS OR RESPOND TO QUESTIONS.

SO LET ME PAGE DOWN TO THAT.

OKAY, SO THIS IS THE REPORT, UH, FOR FIVE 15 QUEEN STREET.

THIS IS THE HISTORIC PROPERTY NAME.

AS MENTIONED BEFORE, THE CHRISTIANSEN HOUSE BUILT IN THE CIRCA 18 HUNDREDS.

THEY, THEY'RE NOT QUITE SURE WHEREABOUTS IN THE 18 HUNDREDS, BUT, UH, AND IT IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

I ALREADY READ THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY DESCRIPTION FOR THAT.

AND SAND BACK DOES NOT HAVE A DESCRIPTION FOR IT.

UM, AND SO THE PROJECT IS TO INCLUDE REMOVAL OF THE REAR SCREEN PORCH REPLACEMENT WITH A SUN ROOM AND SCREEN PORCH EDITION, AND A GROUND LEVEL PATIO IN THE TERTIARY A, B, C.

AND THEN I LIST ALL THE VARIOUS, UH, UH, GUIDELINES THAT APPLY TO THIS PRO OR COULD APPLY TO THIS PROJECT THAT YOU COULD INCLUDE IN YOUR MOTION, INCLUDING, UH, SUGGESTED FINDINGS OF FACT.

UH, AND THEN, UH, YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS, ONE THAT REVISIONS TO THE APPLICATION ACCORDING TO THE CHANGES AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL BY STAFF OR THE HPC, ACCORDING TO THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS PRIOR TO THEIR CONSTRUCTION OR INSTALLATION, OR PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS DIVISION, WHICHEVER OCCURS FIRST AND OR TWO, UM, EXTERIOR CHANGES TO THE APPROVED DESIGNS, MATERIALS AND DETAILS DURING THE CONSTRUCTION SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT, THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS PRIOR TO THEIR CONSTRUCTION OR INSTALLATION, OR PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS DIVISION, WHICHEVER OCCURS FIRST.

THAT'S THE END OF OUR STAFF REPORT.

HEY, MATT, DIDN'T I SEE, I'M SORRY, MATT, DIDN'T I SEE A, A DETAIL FOR THE HANDRAIL ON OVER ON THAT SCREEN? YEAH, THAT'S THE ONE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ISN'T IT? THE HANDRAIL FOR THE SCREEN? OR IS, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE HANDRAIL FOR THE STEPS THAT ARE GOING DOWN FOR THE STEPS AND YEAH, FOR THE ONES OUT.

YEAH, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T, I DON'T SEE THOSE.

IT WILL PROBABLY BE SIMILAR OR EXACTLY THE SAME, BUT NOT NECESSARILY EARLY.

SO, SO IS THAT SOMETHING THE APPLICANT CAN PROVIDE? OH, YEAH.

, IT WILL BE THE SAME.

I DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WOULD BE, UH, A REQUIREMENT FOR A COMPLETELY SEPARATE DETAIL FOR, FOR THE, UM, THE STEPS, BUT YES, IT, IT'LL BE EXACTLY THE SAME BECAUSE YOU HAD MENTIONED THREE INCH YES.

AND THAT THAT'S SHOWN ON THE ELEVATIONS THAT IT WILL BE THREE INCHES THAT'S PICKED.

AND THAT WAS SARAH ABACK.

OH, SORRY, YES, SARAH ABACK.

UM, I, I THOUGHT I WENT THROUGH AND SAID PAINTED WOOD EVERYWHERE, BUT MAYBE I DID NOT.

THE SKIRT BOARD, IS THAT THE ONLY PLACE THAT YOU'RE SAYING IT'S NOT? WELL, UH, LIKE THE WINDOWS, UM, DON'T SHOW THAT IT'S TO BE PAINTED.

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THE, THE POSTS.

I THINK YOU COULD JUST SAY ALL, ALL WOOD TO BE PAINTED.

MIGHT BE EASY WAY TO DOING.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I USUALLY RECOMMEND IS JUST SAY, ALL EXTERIOR WOOD, WHICH I'M SURE YOU WOULD ANYWAY.

WILL THERE BE VENTS, UM, ON THE, YOU KNOW, UH, THERE ARE, THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY NONE THERE NOW.

AND THE, THE PORCH, THE, THE EXISTING PORCH IS A VERY SIMILAR SIZE TO WHAT IS GOING BACK AND IS ALL OPEN UP, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, UNDERNEATH RIGHT NOW.

UM, BUT THERE WILL BE REQUIREMENTS FOR IT.

I CAN PUT THOSE ON THE DRAWINGS AND SEND THOSE TO YOU.

UH, THEY WILL PROBABLY DO THE, UM, THE TURN BRICK TO MAKE IT, UH, LOOK HISTORIC, BUT THERE ARE NONE ON THAT, ON THAT STRUCTURE RIGHT NOW.

AND THEN ARE YOU GOING TO USE, SAY THE, THE UNDERNEATH THE SCREEN PORCH? THE NEW SCREEN PORCH AS THE ACCESS? YES.

YEAH, IT'S THAT WE WON'T HAVE AN ACCESS DOOR.

IT WON'T HAVE AN ACCESS DOOR.

SHALL WE? AND AND LAST THING WAS, I THINK HE MENTIONED EXTERIOR LIGHTING.

I KNOW WHENEVER WAS HERE.

WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

IT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS A TOUGH ONE FOR ME BECAUSE THE OWNERS HAVE NOT PICKED IT.

AND, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE FOR THEM TO SUBMIT THAT DURING CONSTRUCTION IF THEY CAN SUBMIT THAT TO YOU.

UM, 'CAUSE I JUST, I DON'T KNOW.

UM, WE COULD PICK A SPOT FOR IT, BUT I REALLY HAVE, I COULD GIVE, YOU KNOW, A REPRESENTATION OF WHAT IT MIGHT BE, BUT I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW.

I THINK IF YOU JUST PUT LIKE, LOCATION OF, OF OUTSIDE LIGHT, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE GRANTED, WE COULD PUT A LOCATION FOR IT, AND THEN YOU COULD, WHENEVER YOU PICK ONE, JUST LETTING MATT KNOW.

AND, UM, YOU CAN MAKE IT A CONDITION OF THE, YOU KNOW, AS YOU PROBABLY WILL, UM, CONDITION OF THE APPROVAL.

BUT, UH, THEY CAN ALSO COME IN WITH AMENDMENTS, UH, TO THE DESIGN.

SO SUPPOSE THEY HAD CHOSEN ONE SPOT AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE ANOTHER SPOT, OR, UH, EVENTS ARE GONNA BE IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION, DA, DA DA.

SO, OR ARE THERE ANY COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UM, I HAVE A, JUST A QUICK COMMENT IS, IS, BY THE WAY, EVER DID A GREAT JOB IN YOUR ABSENCE? I HEARD I, AND ALL THE, THE PRE-APPLICATION MEETINGS ARE NOW TELE, YOU KNOW, ON TV.

SO THAT'S, UH, THAT'S VERY NICE.

AND HE SUFFERED THROUGH TWO MEETINGS AND, AND, BUT I THINK ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IS NOW INCLUDED.

I THINK THE THING THAT WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT EARLY WAS THE SETBACK.

WE'RE, WE'RE GOOD WITH SETBACK.

BECAUSE THAT PORCH INSETS A LITTLE BIT.

SO WE'RE WE STILL GOT THAT? THAT'S RIGHT.

AWESOME.

ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? ANY PARTICULAR LANDSCAPING OR NOT? NO ADDITIONAL THAT, THAT'LL HAVE TO COME BACK LATER.

THAT'S, UH, HASN'T BEEN DISCUSSED AND MATERIALS, NO ISSUES THERE.

SO, UM, IT WAS POINTED OUT THAT THE Z AND I REPORT IS NOT IN THIS PRESENTATION.

I'M SORRY, WHAT? THE Z AND I ZONING AND INSPECTIONS REPORT.

UM, IF YOU'D LIKE, I CAN PULL IT UP.

UH, I THINK YOU, YOU REFERENCED IT, UM, EARLIER, RIGHT? IT'S REFERENCED IN THE REPORT.

OH, YES, MM-HMM .

SO, UH, MR. SHELLEY HAS CHANGED THE FORMAT A LITTLE BIT.

SO THERE'S A LEARNING PROCESS FOR ALL OF US.

YEAH, EXACTLY.

SORRY.

SO, OH, SO THIS, UH, ONLY GETS BIGGER.

SO AT THE BOTTOM IT SAYS, UH, THAT, UH, A ZONING PERMIT WILL BE REQUIRED AND THE PROJECT WILL REQUIRE A BUILDING PERMIT.

BUT NO, NO SETBACK ISSUES, THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO, RIGHT.

THAT'S AS FAR AS, UH, THEY'VE SUBMITTED SO FAR, NO.

MASON REEF, 5.12 AND 5.15, WOOD 5.2.

SO IF THAT CHANGES WITH THE, WHEN THEY SUBMIT A ZONING PERMIT, THAT'S FOR ZONING TO ZONING CALL OUT.

ALRIGHT, WITH THAT, ARE WE READY FOR A MOTION, MR. CHAIR? YES.

I MOVE TO FIND THE PROJECT LOCATED AT FIVE 15 QUEEN STREET TO BE NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE CITY OF BO, CITY OF NEW BERN.

CODE OF ORDINANCES, SECTION 15.411 THROUGH 15.429 AND ERNS, HISTORIC DESIGN, HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS BASED ON THE FOLLOWING STANDARDS AND FINDING OF FACT DESIGN PRINCIPLES THREE ONE ADDITIONS, 3.31, 3.32, 3.33 FOUNDATIONS, 4.12 AND 4.13 WINDOWS, DOORS AND OPENINGS, 4.32 AND 4.3 0.3 ENTRANCES, FOUR POINT ROOFS FOUR FOUR

[00:30:01]

AND THE FINDINGS OF FACT, BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE PROJECT APPLICATION AND THE TESTIMONY THAT WE TALKED ABOUT TO, UM, IS THAT THE APPLICATION IS FOR A NEW PARTIALLY SCREENED REAR PORCH EDITION IN THE TERTIARY A VC OF A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN THAT THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS THAT THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.

AND THE PROJECT IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS AND DOES NOT DIMINISH THE SPECIAL CHARACTER OF THE, OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

AND I WOULD HAVE A CONDITION THAT ANY CHANGES TO THE DESIGN MATERIALS, THE DETAILS, INCLUDING THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT TODAY, HANDRAILS, THE, THE VENT EXTERIOR LIGHTING, BUT ANYTHING THAT IS GONNA BE MODIFIED DURING THE CONSTRUCTION, UM, OR BEFORE CONSTRUCTION, SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HBC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS TO THE CONSTRUCTION OR INSTALLATION OR PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTION DIVISION, WHICHEVER OCCURS.

FIRST, SECOND, MR. CHAIR, JUST TO MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR ON THE MOTION, THE MOTION DID NOT INCLUDE ANY OF THE GUIDELINES RELATED TO PAINT.

WAS THAT INTENTIONAL? THAT'S CORRECT.

THANK YOU SIR.

ALRIGHT, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? A.

ANY OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.

MOTION TO ISSUE A COA.

SO MOVED.

SO FOR 100, UH, MIDDLE STREET, WHICH IS ALSO KNOWN AS THE DOUBLETREE HOTEL, UH, THIS IS THE APPLICATION FOR THAT PROJECT.

ALL THOSE OPPOSED? COAS ISSUED.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

NEXT IS 100 MIDDLE STREET.

SO WHO MADE, UH, WHO MADE THE SECOND ON THE APPROVAL THERE? UH, RICHARD, UM, ON THE APPROVAL OF THE APPLICATION, I THINK ALSO RICHARD TWICE.

[4.C. 100 Middle St. (Doubletree) – to include a replacement deck, new sunscreens, and new outdoor bar in the Tertiary AVC.]

UH, THE APPLICANT'S, UH, NAME THE APPLICANT IS CAMERON LASSETER, UH, OF, UM, CLEAR SCAPES.

UH, WE HAVE SOMEONE ELSE HERE REPRESENTING CLEAR SCAPES, UH, AND, UH, THAT THAT'LL BE OKAY AND CLEAR, CLEAR TO BE OKAY IN A MOMENT.

UH, HERE'S THE REST OF THEIR APPLICATION, THE INFORMATION THEY'VE PROVIDED.

UH, AND WE'LL SEE THE ATTACHMENTS SOON.

IT ACTUALLY IS SIGNED HERE.

IF WE ZOOM INTO THE THREE POINT LETTERING HERE, IT DOES SAY CAMERON LASSETER, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.

THERE WE GO.

IT'S THERE.

THAT'S GOT THE RIGHT DATE AND IT'S STILL MESSING ME AROUND HERE.

JUST DO THIS.

ON, UH, IS WHERE THE PROJECT IS.

SO THIS DOCUMENT, UH, UH, AUTHORIZES, UH, CLEAR SCAPES TO APPEAR, UH, FOR THE OWNER WHO HAS SIGNED AND DATED AND HAD HIS SIGNATURE, UH, NOTARIZED.

AND THIS IS THE Z AND I REPORT FOR THAT ONE WHERE IT INDICATES THAT, UH, A ZONING PERMITS REQUIRED AND BUILDING AND FLOODPLAIN DEVELOPMENT PERMITS ARE REQUIRED.

SO, DANG IT.

THERE WE GO.

SO THIS IS NOW THEIR PRESENTATION, WHICH INCLUDES A LOT OF THE AERIALS AND OTHER INFORMATION THAT WE NORMALLY PROVIDE.

SO THIS IS, UH, THIS AREA OF WORK FOR THE PROJECT BEHIND THE HOTEL.

UM, IT'S CURRENTLY THE, UH, THE DECK THAT IS BACK THERE NOW WITH THE, UH, POOL AND A SMALL TIKI BAR.

UH, THEY ALREADY PROVIDED THE SANBORN MAP INFORMATION FOR THIS, UH, AND, UH, JUST FYI HALF OF THE LAND, THE HOTEL SITTING ON USED TO BE WATER.

SO, UH, THANK YOU TO THE, UH, TO THE SEA WALL THAT'S BEEN BUILT THERE AND FILLED IN BEHIND IN ORDER TO CREATE THIS OPPORTUNITY.

AND SO NOW WE HAVE, UH, THE CURRENT SITE PLAN FOR THAT, UH, SHOWING THE DOUBLE TREE HOTEL HERE ON THE LEFT, HATCHED IN, IN THIS POOL.

THIS KIND OF, UH, UH, RHOMBUS SHAPED AREA HERE

[00:35:02]

THIS ALSO SHOWS, UH, UM, PROPERTY LINES.

AND ONE THING TO NOTE IS THE, UH, UH, THERE IS, UM, AN ENCROACHMENT AGREEMENT FOR THIS PARTICULAR AREA HERE OF THE DECK, UH, ALREADY BACK AT THIS TIME PERIOD, UH, WHEN THIS MAP WAS MADE.

UH, AND THAT HAS SUBSEQUENTLY BEEN ENLARGED, UH, AT THE APPROVAL OF THE ALDERMAN IN ORDER TO ALLOW FOR THIS PROJECT.

UH, SO THIS IS ALSO STILL THE EXISTING CONDITIONS SHOWING WHAT'S TO BE REMOVED AND DEMOLISHED, BASICALLY EVERYTHING THAT'S THERE EXCEPT FOR THE TREE AND THE, UH, ELECTRICAL, UH, POWER AND, UH, BOXES AND SUCH UNDERNEATH HERE.

UH, AND WE'LL MOVE NOW DOWN TO, UH, THE PROPOSAL, WHICH IS THEN TO, UH, CONSTRUCT A, UM, A NEW DECK IN THIS AREA, WHICH IS NOW AT A LOWER ELEVATION THAN THE CURRENT DECK.

AND, UH, CONSIDERABLY LOWER.

OOPS.

LET'S DO THIS.

UM, THIS IS A PLAN OF IT.

UH, AND TO, IN THE LOWER LEFT, THERE'LL BE INSTALLED SOME, UH, SUNSHADES AND THESE TRIANGULAR SHAPED SUNSHADES.

UH, THEN IN THIS CROSSHATCH AREA WILL BE A NEW OUTDOOR BAR.

UH, AND THEN THE, UH, EDGE ALONG THIS SIDE WILL, UH, BE COVERED WITH SOME, UH, DECK LIKE MATERIAL.

AND THAT'S THE EXTENSION OF THE, UH, ENCROACHMENT AREA OUT FROM THIS, UH, SPOT HERE.

THIS IS THE OLD LINE HERE, UH, AND WHERE THE END OF THE, OF THAT DECK IS TODAY, UH, BE EXTENDED JUST OUT TO THE, TO THAT CORNER THAT'S THERE TODAY.

SO, UH, THEY'LL ALSO BE CONSTRUCTING, UH, SOME STAIRS HERE THAT, UH, CURRENTLY DON'T EXIST, UH, SO THAT IT'S TO ATTRACT, UH, PUBLIC TRAFFIC UP TO THE DECK, TO THE NEW DECK AND THE BAR.

AND THEN, UM, THERE'S A, UM, AN AREA THAT'S LOOKS LIKE IT'S COVERED WITH, UH, UH, WOOD, UH, BUT IT'S, UH, OH, IT'S, UH, REX MATERIAL OVER HERE ON THIS RIGHT SIDE.

AND THAT ALSO EXTENDS OUT INTO THAT, UH, ENCROACHMENT AREA.

AND THE, UH, AREA OF THE BOX, THE, UH, UH, ELECTRICAL BOXES IS ACTUALLY ELEVATED AND BECOMES A LITTLE BIT OF A STAGE THERE ALONG THAT EDGE.

WE'RE GONNA SEE THIS ALL IN PERSPECTIVE IN A MINUTE, IN FULL LIVING COLOR.

BUT FIRST, SOME EXISTING PHOTOGRAPHS.

SO THIS IS, UH, UM, ON THE LEFT IS, UH, YOU KNOW, LOOKING FROM THE MIDDLE OF THE DECK BACK TOWARDS THE POOL, AND THEN FROM THE, UH, WESTERN EDGE OF THE DECK BACK TO THE POOL.

AND THIS HAS, UH, THIS LIKE FLAGSTONE MATERIAL AS THE PAVING MATERIAL.

NOW ALL THAT IS TO BE REMOVED.

THIS IS THE, UH, WELL-KNOWN VIEW OF THE DECK FROM BELOW AND, UH, FROM THE PUBLIC WALKWAY.

AND THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE, UH, TRYING TO AVOID AND FIX.

SO, AND THEN FROM THE OUTSIDE OF THE DECK TOWARDS THE WESTERN WALL LOOKING EAST.

AND THEN, UH, THIS IS THAT WESTERN WALL, LOOKING WEST.

AND AGAIN, THOSE ARE THE EXISTING PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE EXISTING WITH THE TIKI BAR THERE.

SO I'M GONNA SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT.

AND THIS IS NOW THE, UM, THE RENDERING THAT'S BEEN PROVIDED FOR THE PROJECT.

UM, AND FOR A PARTICULAR NOTE IS THAT THIS IS MUCH LOWER, FIRST OF ALL, THAN THE EXISTING.

AND SECOND IS THERE ARE NO PI OR ANYTHING EXPOSED, UM, TO THE WALKWAY, UH, THIS AREA HERE.

NEXT, THE TREE IS PRESERVED, UH, AND THERE WILL BE A NEW, UH, SET OF STEPS GOING UP TO THE DECK, UH, NEXT TO THE TREE.

AND THERE WILL ALSO BE WHAT THEY CALL, UM, STADIUM SEATING HERE, UH, WHERE PEOPLE CAN SIT AND HAVE THEIR DRINKS AND SNACKS AND THINGS, WATCH THE PEOPLE GO BY.

AND THEN I'LL SLIDE THIS OVER A LITTLE BIT MORE.

YEAH, THAT'S THE END.

AND THEN IT ENDS ALL THE WAY DOWN HERE TO THE RIGHT.

[00:40:01]

AGAIN, THIS IS MORE OF AN ARCHITECTURAL PLAN, NOT AS BUSY AS THE OTHER ONE.

UM, BUT THE SAME FEATURES ARE SHOWN HERE.

SO SOME IDEA OF THE MATERIALS, SO AROUND THE, UH, THE SIDES, UH, WHERE IT'S TO BE THIS, UH, UM, WOOD SIDING, IT'S A COMPOSITE MATERIAL.

THE, UH, THE RAILING WILL BE A CABLE RAIL, UH, RAILING.

AND SO HERE'S ANOTHER VIEW OF WHAT THAT, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN THE LAST ONE.

UH, AND THEN THE NEW BAR IS SHOWN HERE AS WELL.

THERE'S THE NEW BENCH SEATING, THE STAIRWAY, THE SOMEWHAT ELEVATED PORTION HERE, THE, AS I WAS CALLING THE STAGE, SO TO SAY.

AND THEN, UH, THAT'S UNDERNEATH THERE IS WHERE THE, UH, ELECTRICAL PANELS ARE.

SO THERE'S A PHOTOGRAPH OF WHAT THAT CABLE RAILING WOULD LOOK LIKE.

UM, AND THEN, UH, THE PAVING MATERIAL AND THE TRACKS DECKING AND THE SKIRTING, UH, THE, UM, TRIANGULAR SUNSHADES.

AND THEN THIS WAS SOMETHING NEW SINCE THE DESIGN REVIEW MEETING.

UM, WHEN WE ASKED ABOUT THE LIGHTING, WE, THEY HAD ALREADY INDICATED THE LIGHTING AROUND THE SHADE, SUNSHADES AND THE, AND ALONG THE PERIMETER AND THEN ALONG THE STEPS AND IN THE TREE.

UM, BUT THEY'VE NOW ADDED A COUPLE OF BOLLARDS IN THE, IN THE MIDDLE OR THE FIELD OF THE, UM, OF THE DECK.

THREE OF 'EM HERE, AND THREE OF 'EM OVER HERE.

SMALL LITTLE CHANGE.

AND SO HERE'S AN IDEA OF WHAT THOSE BOLLARDS WOULD LOOK LIKE.

THE EXISTING LAMP COATS WOULD STAY, AND THERE'S, I BELIEVE THREE OF 'EM, ONE, ONE IN THE WESTERN CORNER, UH, AND THEN SPACED OUT ALONG, ALONG THE FRONT OR THE BACK OF THE HOTEL, THE, UH, CABLE RAIL HAS LIGHTS IN IT.

AND, UH, THERE WOULD BE LIGHTS TUCKED UNDERNEATH THE, UH, EDGE OF THE, UH, OF THE DECK.

OH, AND THE STRING LIGHTS.

THEN FOR THE, UH, SUNSHADES AND I GUESS MAYBE THE, UH, THE, UH, TREE, THIS IS, UH, A MATERIAL, A RENDITION OF THE MATERIALS THAT THEY'RE THINKING OF FOR THE BAR.

BUT THEY DO HAVE ANOTHER, AN ACTUAL RENDERING OF THE BAR ITSELF.

THAT'S THE FLOOR PLAN.

AND THEN THIS IS THEIR RENDERING OF THE BAR.

SO IMAGINE THOSE MATERIALS WE SAW IN THE OTHER OTHER PHOTOGRAPH.

AND THEN, UH, THIS CONFIGURATION.

UM, AND THESE VERTICAL SLATS HERE ARE ACTUALLY PORCELAIN TILE THAT LOOK LIKE WOOD.

AND THEN THE, UH, COUNTERTOP IS TO BE, UH, OR SORRY, COUNTERTOP IS TO BE QUARTZ.

AND THE, UH, THE BASE AROUND THE COUNTER IS TO BE THESE FLUTED TILES.

AND THE CANOPY ITSELF IS POWDER COATED IN METAL.

AND THEN, UH, WE ASKED ABOUT, UH, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN IT'S CLOSED, UH, AND UH, THEY INDICATED THESE ROLLING SH SHUTTERS WOULD BE INSTALLED, UM, ON THE INSIDE OF THE, THE ACTUAL BAR ON THE INSIDE OF THE BAR.

UM, BACK BEHIND THE SPAC EDGE.

I BELIEVE THAT'S STILL CORRECT, RIGHT? YES.

I GET A NOD FROM THE AUDIENCE, .

AND I BELIEVE THAT'S IT.

ALONG WITH PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT AND RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS FOR THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION.

UM, AS SOON AS WE HEAR SOME COMMENTS, THEN WE'LL, UH, WE'RE READY WITH OUR STAFF RECORD.

IS THERE ANYONE WHO HAS RECEIVED NOTICE WHO WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON THIS APPLICATION? SEEING NONE, ANYONE WHO DID NOT RECEIVE NOTICE BUT FEELS YOU'RE UNIQUELY AFFECTED VERSUS OTHERS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BY THIS APPLICATION, PLEASE COME FORWARD SEEING NONE.

ALRIGHT, SO, UM, IT'S, UH, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO PREFACE THIS ONE AGAIN, UH, AS YOU PERUSE THAT PAGE.

UM, SO FOR THE RECORD, STAFF HAS PREPARED A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS STAFF REPORT DATED APRIL 15TH, 2026, WHICH HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO THE APPLICANT AND IS INCLUDED IN THE EVIDENTIARY RECORD FOR TONIGHT'S HEARING.

THE STAFF REPORT SETS FORTH STAFF'S ANALYSIS OF THE APPLICABLE HISTORIC DESIGN, DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS,

[00:45:01]

WHILE THE REPORT ADDRESSES ALL APPLICABLE STANDARDS, I WOULD LIKE TO BRIEFLY DIRECT THE BOARD'S ATTENTION TO FOUR AREAS, SORRY, TWO AREAS THAT REQUIRED CLOSER ANALYSIS BASED ON THE SPECIFICS OF THIS APPLICATION.

THESE PORTIONS OF THE REPORT REFLECT AREAS WHERE STAFF IDENTIFIED QUESTIONS ARE CONSIDERATIONS THAT MAY BE PARTICULARLY RELEVANT TO THE BOARD'S EVALUATION OF WHETHER THE PROPOSED WORK IS CON CONGRUENT, CONGRUOUS, SORRY, OR INCONGRUOUS WITH THE ADOPTED DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

SO THE FIRST, UH, AREA IS THE WESTERN AND SOUTHERN BRICK PERIMETER WALL.

UH, IT SEEMS THE EXISTING BRICK PERIMETER WALL WILL NEED TO BE CUT LOWER IN HEIGHT TO ACCOMMODATE THE DECK DESIGN.

ARE THERE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THAT? AND HOW IS THE TOP TO BE FINISHED? OR IS IT JUST BE COVERED OVER BY THE DECK? SO THAT'S ONE.

AND NUMBER TWO IS, UM, IS THE OUTDOOR BAR AND ACCESSORY STRUCTURE WITH A SUBSTANTIAL FOUNDATION OR NOT? UH, AND THIS WOULD AFFECT WHETHER TO INCLUDE STANDARDS 2.6 0.2 OR 2.6 0.3 IN THE MOTION, OR PERHAPS NEITHER OF THEM.

SO, UM, WITH THAT, I WON'T READ THE REPORT IN ITS ENTIRETY, BUT LIKE TO READ THE SMALL PORTIONS BEGINNING AND AT THE END.

SO, UH, AGAIN, THE STAFF REPORT IS WRITTEN FOR THE, UH, PROJECT AT 100 MIDDLE STREET, THE DOUBLETREE HOTEL.

IT IS A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, UH, AND HAS NO, UH, DESCRIPTIONS IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY OR THE SAND BACK, UH, BOOK.

UH, THE PROJECT IS TO INCLUDE A REPLACEMENT DECK, NEW SUNSCREENS, AND NEW OUTDOOR BAR, AND THE TERTIARY A B, C.

AND THEN, UH, WE HAVE ALL THE APPROPRIATE, UH, GUIDELINES LISTED WHEREBY YOU CAN SEE HERE IN THE MIDDLE, UH, EITHER 2.2 OR SIX POINT, SORRY, 2.6 0.2 OR 2.6 0.3, UH, WOULD APPLY DEPENDING ON IF YOU THINK THE BAR SHOULD BE ONE OR THE OTHER.

UH, THEN THE SUGGESTED FINDINGS OF FACT ALSO HERE, AND THEN ESSENTIALLY THE SAME CONDITIONS AS WITH THE PREVIOUS ONE.

SO THAT WOULD THEN BE THE CONCLUSION OF OUR STAFF REPORT.

ANY COMMENTS FROM THE APPLICANT'S? CAN, CAN YOU ANSWER, CAN YOU GO UP AND TALK ABOUT THAT BRICK WALL? THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

ABSOLUTELY.

MR. SHELLEY, IF YOU DON'T MIND, GO TO THE RENDERING THAT SHOWS LITTLE, AND I'M SORRY, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND INTRODUCING YOURSELF TOO.

OH, SORRY.

FOR THE RECORD, I'M BRANDY THOMPSON.

I AM PRINCIPAL AND ARCHITECT AT CLEAR SCAPES HERE REPRESENTING.

YEAH, THANK YOU.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

THIS ONE, THAT ONE IS PERFECT.

UM, SO ANY AREAS THAT, UH, ARE RECEIVING THE DECK TREATMENT AS MR. SHELLEY INDICATED ARE GONNA, OR SUGGESTED MAY BE POSSIBLE ARE GONNA BE FULLY COVERED BY THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE DECK.

SO IT WILL BE COMPLETELY, UM, CONCEALED AND HIDDEN.

THERE IS AN AREA WHEN YOU TURN THE CORNER WHERE THE EXISTING, YEAH, I'LL WAIT FOR YOU TO GET THERE.

OVER ON THE VERY WEST SIDE, UHHUH, RIGHT THERE.

SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE IT TRANSITIONS FROM THAT TRX MATERIAL TO BACK TO THE BRICK.

UM, AND THERE IS A CAP, UM, SECTION THERE THAT, THAT RUNS THE LENGTH OF BASICALLY THE EXISTING.

UM, THE INTENT IS TO DO A ROLL LOCK SECTION OF BRICK.

SO WE'RE GONNA BE CUTTING DOWN THAT WALL KIND OF AROUND THE ENTIRE PERIMETER, EXTENDING THINGS OUT.

AND IN THIS CASE, WE JUST WANT TO PROVIDE A NICE CAP CONDITION FOR THAT.

SO IT'LL BE BRICK ROLL LOCK, SO THE RAILING WHOLE WAY AROUND WILL BE AT THE SAME HEIGHT.

THE RAILING WILL BE AT THE SAME HEIGHT, EXCEPT THAT THAT ONE SECTION THAT POPS UP BECAUSE OF THE RIGHT OVER UP BY THE MM-HMM .

ELECTRICAL PANELS.

DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, MR. SHELLEY? YES.

UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS OR QUESTIONS? SO, UH, WE, UH, I, I THINK WE'VE GOT, UH, A RESOLUTION TO THE ENCROACHMENT, UH, ISSUE, WHICH WE'VE HEARD THIS SEVERAL TIMES.

WELL, WELL SPOKEN MR. THOMPSON.

AND THE DESIGN REVIEW THAT SEEMS TO BE RESOLVED.

SO, UH, I HAVE NO PROBLEMS MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS.

UH, THIS, THE HOTEL IS NOT A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

IT'S REALLY NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE UNLESS YOU WANT TO CONSIDER THE HARVEY MANAGEMENT CLOSE.

UH, THERE'S NOTHING LINE HERE WITH THE PRINCIPLES AND THE STANDARDS, UH, PROPORTIONS, DETAILING DIMENSIONS, MATERIALS ALL ENHANCE WHAT IS ALREADY THERE.

I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY A GOOD SUMMARY OF,

[00:50:01]

OF THIS PROJECT.

IS ANYONE CONCERNED THAT THERE'S A SUBSTANTIAL FOUNDATION ON THIS BAR? UH, I, TO ME, UH, AS FAR AS ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, UH, 2.6 0.1 I THINK IS THE ONLY ONE THAT REALLY APPLIES HERE.

YEAH, I AGREE.

BUT THE OTHER TWO ARE IN CONTEXT OF SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

MORE ON THE HISTORIC SIDE, CORRECT.

YEAH, I AGREE.

ALRIGHT, WITH THAT, ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR MOTION? UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE, UH, TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE FIND THE APPLICATION FOR 100, UH, MIDDLE STREET TO BE NOT IN CON IN CONGRESS WITH NEWMAN'S CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTION 15 DASH FOUR 11 THROUGH 15 DASH 4 29 AND NEWMAN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES BASED ON THE FOLLOWING GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS OF FACT GUIDELINES, UTILITIES 2.31, LANDSCAPING, 2.4 0.1, ACCESSORY STRUCTURES 2.61, DESIGN PRINCIPLES 3 1 1 MODIFICATIONS, 3.2 0.1, 3.22 DECKS AND PANIO 4.6 0.2 4.6 0.4, MANS 5.3 0.3 5.34, CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, FIVE ONE THROUGH FIVE.

THREE FINDINGS OF FACT, UH, THE APPLICATION IS FOR REPLACEMENT DECK SUNSCREENS, UH, AND NEW OUTDOOR BAR IN THE TERTIARY AREA OF NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE WATERFRONT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN THAT PROPOSED DESIGN, THE COMPONENTS MATERIALS, UH, MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

ZONING ADMINISTRATOR IN CHIEF, UH, BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THE PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.

UH, THE PROJECT IS NOT IN CONGRESS WITH THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES OF THE STANDARDS AND DOES NOT DIMINISH THE SPECIAL CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

TWO CONDITIONS, ANY REVISIONS TO THE APPLICATION BEYOND WHAT WE APPROVED TONIGHT.

UH, THOSE, THOSE REVISIONS, UH, WILL BE SUBMITTED TO THE, UH, HPC STAFF, UM, UH, FOR THEIR REVIEW AND POTENTIAL HPC UH, REVIEW OF THAT AS WELL, UH, ACCORDING TO THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES.

UH, AND THE SECOND CONDITION IS ANY EXTERIOR CHANGES, UH, THAT WE APPROVED RELATED TO DESIGNS, MATERIALS, DETAILS DURING THE CONSTRUCTION, ANY CHANGES, UH, WOULD BE SUBMITTED TO THE HPC STAFF FOR REVIEW AND POTENTIAL, UH, HPC, UH, REVIEW AS WELL.

SECOND MOTION, AND SECOND.

OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.

MOTION.

MOTION TO ISSUE THE COA, PLEASE.

SO MOVE.

UH, IF, IF IT'S A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, WE HAVE NO ROLE THAT THE BUILDING CAN BE DEMOLISHED BASED ON THE OWNER'S INTENT.

BEFORE WE START THE NEXT ONE, I DO WANT TO JUST MAKE A COMMENT.

UH, IT'S VERY RARE FOR US TO GET A DEMOLITION HEARING AND TONIGHT WE HAVE TWO, AND IT'S PROBABLY RARE TO HAVE TWO IN A YEAR IN ONE NIGHT.

AND I JUST WANT TO PROVIDE THE BACKGROUND THAT, UH, IN 2007, THERE WAS AN UPROAR IN THE CITY BECAUSE THE MCCLELLAN BUILDING WAS GOING TO BE TORN DOWN AND A GROUP OF PEOPLE WENT TO THE ASSEMBLY AND THEY HAD AN ORDINANCE PASSED FOR THE CITY OF NEW BERN THAT LETS THE HPC ESTABLISH STANDARDS FOR DEMOLITION AND ACTUALLY CAN PREVENT A DEMOLITION OF A PROPERTY UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS.

BEFORE THAT ANY PROPERTY, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A CONTRIBUTING PROPERTY, COULD BE DEMOLISHED AS LONG AS THEY WERE GIVEN A ONE AND A, A ONE YEAR WAIT PERIOD TO SEE IF THE PROPERTY COULD BE SOLD OR OTHER ACCOMMODATIONS COULD BE MADE.

SO NEWBURN IS VERY UNIQUE.

THERE WERE ABOUT SEVEN CITIES THAT WENT TO THE ASSEMBLY AND GOT THE SAME PERMISSION.

NOT ALL IMPLEMENTED IT, BUT WE HAVE, AND AS A RESULT WE DO HAVE THIS CHALLENGE.

AND SO OUR REAL CHARGE IS DEMOLITIONS, ARE IRREVERSIBLE ACTION, WHICH IS A PERMANENT LOSS OF THE INTEGRITY AND CHARACTER OF A HISTORIC RESOURCE.

SO THAT'S OUR CONTEXT ON DOING THIS.

[00:55:01]

WE STILL DO SEE IT BECAUSE IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND IT'S A CHANGE, BUT WE CANNOT DENY.

SO WITH THAT, THE TWO TONIGHT ARE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, SO WE DO HAVE TO SPEND THE TIME TO GO THROUGH OUR STANDARDS TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT QUALIFIES FOR DEMOLITION.

SO WITH THAT,

[4.D. 710 New St. – to include the demolition of the historic 2-story house and redevelopment with a new 2-story infill house.]

GO AHEAD.

THE, UM, CENTRAL, UM, BEAM THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF THE, UH, THROUGH THE LENGTH OF THE HOUSE.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.

UH, SO WE'LL START WITH THE, OF COURSE, THE APPLICATION ITSELF, UH, FOR SEVEN 10 NEW STREET AS SHOWN HERE ON THE SCREEN.

AND THE, UH, PROPERTY OWNER IS THEREA BARRETT, AND THE APPLICANT'S NAME IS CHRIS, UH, RUSTY CREEDY.

UH, AND THEY'VE FILLED OUT THE APPLICATION HERE, UH, FOR THE DEMOLITION AND REBUILT RECONSTRUCTION ON SITE.

MR. CREEDY HAS SIGNED AND DATED THIS, AND HE HAS BEEN EMPOWERED BY THE OWNER WITH THIS FORM THAT THE OWNER HAS SIGNED, DATED, AND HAD NOTARIZED.

THE ZONING AND INSPECTIONS REVIEW FOR THIS, UH, INDICATES THAT, UH, A ZONING PERMIT IS REQUIRED FOR THE NEW CONSTRUCTION.

AND, UH, THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR INDICATED THAT A DEMOLITION PERMIT AND A BUILDING PERMIT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR EACH OF THE TWO PARTS.

SO, UH, WE HAD QUITE A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHS AND WE HAVE A LOT, A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHS TO GO THROUGH.

UM, AND WE WENT THROUGH A LOT OF THEM AT THE DESIGN REVIEW.

THESE ARE MOSTLY ALL THE SAME.

THESE SHOW THE FIRST, THE EXISTING HOUSE AS IT WAS JUST LAST YEAR.

AND, UM, I'VE ADDED NOW FOR TONIGHT THE, UH, UH, THE AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS, WHICH INDICATING THE LOCATION OF THE PROPERTY.

AND THERE'S ACTUALLY TWO PROPERTIES IN THIS CASE THAT ARE EITHER HAVE JUST BEEN, UH, INK STILL WET, UH, BEEN COMBINED OR ARE ABOUT TO BE.

UH, BUT BOTH OF THOSE PROPERTIES ARE OWNED BY THE SAME PERSON AS SHOWN HERE.

UH, BOTH OF THESE ARE OWNED BY THERESA BARRETT, AND THIS IS NOW A CLOSER UP VIEW OF THOSE.

UM, AND YOU CAN SEE THE HOUSE IS QUITE CLOSE TO THE NEIGHBOR ON THE LEFT, AND THE SMALL LOT IS RELATIVELY OPEN, AND I BELIEVE THAT MAY, THAT'S EITHER A SHED OR, UM, A STORAGE UNIT.

I THINK AT THE TIME THEY HAD SOME TEMPORARY STORAGE UNIT THERE.

SO, UM, THESE ARE NOW SOME PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE'VE SEEN THE LAST TIME IN DESIGN REVIEW, BUT, UH, UM, PEOPLE CAN SEE THERE'S QUITE A LOT OF, UH, DETERIORATION, UH, MOSTLY FROM TERMITE DAMAGE.

UM, THAT ONE'S NOT EVEN AS BAD AS SOME OF THE OTHERS.

SO THIS ONE GIVES YOU A HINT.

OVER HERE ON THE LEFT, A LOT OF TERMITE DAMAGE AND REMAINS OF, UH, SOME OF THE, UH, TERMITE DAMAGED STUDS.

HERE WE HAVE, THIS IS CALLED THE RIM BEAM.

THIS PIECE OF WOOD HERE THAT, UM, SPANS ACROSS THE VARIOUS PIERS.

THE PIER, THIS PIER IS TIPPED OVER.

THAT ONE ON THE CORNER HAS, UM, BEEN BROKEN OFF AND THE RIM BEAM IS STICKING OUT IN MIDAIR.

UM, THESE, UH, BRICKS HERE ARE NON-STRUCTURAL, SO THEY PRETTY MUCH DON'T MATTER THE ONES THAT ARE IN FILLING IN BETWEEN THE PIERS.

UM, THEN, UH, UH, THAT'S ACTUALLY THE SAME ONE FROM THE OTHER DIRECTION.

UH, AND THAT'S VERY SEVERE DAMAGE ON THAT.

HERE WE CAN SEE SOME MORE, UM, TERMITE DAMAGE UP, HIGHER UP ON THE SAME WALL, UH, AT THE TOPS OF THESE STUDS AND ACROSS THE, UH, CROSS MEMBERS AT THE TOP, TOP PLATES.

UM, ALTHOUGH I THINK THESE, THIS MAY BE BALLOON FRAMING, IN WHICH CASE THESE ARE, UM, UH, STRUTS ACROSS THE TOP OF THOSE.

AND HERE'S ANOTHER, UH, RIM BEAM THAT'S BEEN TOTALLY OBLITERATED BY, UM, TERMITES AND ALSO SOME OF THE OTHER STUDS HERE HAVE, HAVE TERMITE DAMAGES.

THIS ONE HERE UNDERNEATH THE WINDOW IS TERMITE DAMAGE.

ALL RIGHT, HERE ON THE EDGE, BEHIND THIS NEW POST, UM, IS ONE THAT'S ALSO VERY HIGHLY DAMAGED.

SO SOME MORE PHOTOGRAPHS OF DAMAGED WOOD STRUCTURE.

THIS IS

[01:00:01]

UM, THAT BASICALLY CUTS THE HOUSE IN HALF AND ALLOWS THE, UH, FLOOR JOISTS TO REST ON THAT.

THIS IS NOW CORRECT AND IS FAILING HERE.

AND THIS IS BEING PROPPED UP BY THESE CONCRETE BLOCKS AT THE MOMENT.

UM, THIS IS, UH, THE REAR E ENTRANCE TO THE HOUSE.

UM, THIS HAS HAD SOME NEWER CONSTRUCTION ADDED, UH, MORE RECENTLY.

THIS IS A CLOSEUP OF ANOTHER OF THE STRUCTURAL MEMBERS.

THIS IS A FLOOR JOIST FOR THE FLOOR ABOVE AND THE, UM, TOP PLATE, UM, FOR THAT THIS IS RESTING ON.

THOSE ARE ALL, UM, DAMAGED, DETERIORATED.

UM, THEN WE HAVE TO PASS THAT.

AND THEN, UH, THIS IS A LETTER PROVIDED BY THE CITY'S, UM, UH, BUILDING INSPECTOR.

UH, HE'S HERE TODAY.

AND IF WE WANT TO DISCUSS THIS, UH, WE CAN DISCUSS THIS.

UM, THERE'S THREE BULLET POINTS HERE.

UH, SIGNIFICANT TERMITE DAMAGE AND WOOD DECAY THROUGHOUT, INCLUDING FLOOR JOISTS, GIRDERS STUDS, AND OTHER FRAMING MEMBERS.

STRUCTURAL FOUNDATION PIERS ARE FAILING IN SEVERAL PLACES, AND THE RIGHT HAND FOUNDATION WALL AND EXTERIOR WALL ARE COLLAPSING OUTWARD.

UH, AND THEN I, I SUPPOSE, UH, WHENEVER YOU, WHENEVER YOU WANT, I'M READY WITH THE STAFF REPORT.

IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO RECEIVED NOTICE WHO WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE TESTIMONY ON THIS APPLICATION? YES.

HOW ABOUT ANYONE WHO IS, DID NOT RECEIVE NOTICE BUT IS UNIQUELY AFFECTED DIFFERENT THAN OTHERS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BY THIS APPLICATION? SEEING NONE, MR. SHELLEY, CAN WE ASK THE BUILDING OFFICIAL TO KIND EXPLAIN HOW WE LOOKED AT, OKAY.

BEFORE YOU START, WHEN WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE BUILDING? INSPECTOR HAD A QUESTION HERE.

OH, OKAY.

UM, YES, ACTUALLY THAT NOW WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR THAT BECAUSE, UH, WE JUST TESTIMONY HAVE THAT UP THERE.

APPRECIATE YOU COMING.

GOOD EVENING.

MY NAME'S ERIC WALDEN.

I WORK FOR CITY OF NEW BERN BUILDING INSPECTIONS.

AWESOME.

CAN YOU JUST GIVE US A SUMMARY OF, OF KIND OF WHAT YOU LOOKED AT AND, AND WHAT YOUR, I WE CAN READ THE LETTER, BUT IF YOU CAN JUST KIND OF SUMMARIZE, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR EXPERIENCE AT THAT HOUSE.

ABSOLUTELY.

SO I'VE BEEN TO THIS HOUSE PROBABLY THREE DIFFERENT TIMES.

I'VE MET WITH CONTRACTORS AND ANOTHER BUILDING OFFICIAL THAT WAS OUT THERE AT THE SAME TIME.

UM, A LOT OF TERMITE DAMAGE, A LOT OF WATER DAMAGE.

UH, THE FOUNDATION IS COLLAPSING.

UM, REALLY DIDN'T EVEN APPEAR SAFE TO TO BE IN THE HOUSE TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST WITH YOU.

UM, AND MR. CHAIR, BEFORE WE GO FURTHER IN THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING, I THINK WE NEED TO LAY A FOUNDATION ABOUT HIS QUALIFICATIONS TO OFFER OPINIONS ON STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS.

UM, SO IF YOU LIKE, YOU CAN ASK THOSE QUESTIONS OR I CAN HELP BUILD THAT RECORD.

IF YOU JUST PROVIDE YOUR CURRENT CERTIFICATION AS A BUILDING INSPECTOR.

I'M A LEVEL THREE BUILDING INSPECTOR WITH THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA.

IS THAT SUFFICIENT? THERE'S THREE LEVELS.

ONE, TWO, AND THREE.

THREE BEING THE HIGHEST.

AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A A BUILDING INSPECTOR IN THE NORTH STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA? 10 YEARS.

HOW WOULD THAT BE DONE? I GUESS THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE WHAT CROSSES THE LINE AS FAR AS HEARSAY, BUT, UM, A CONTRACTOR THAT SPECIALIZES IN LIFTING, MOVING RELOCATING HOMES, UM, HAS HAS BEEN ON SITE AND LOOKED AT THIS AND THEY HAVE DECLINED TO OFFER US SERVICES BECAUSE OF THE CONDITION.

I THINK THAT'S SUFFICIENT.

UM, IN, IN, IN YOUR INSPECTING, DO YOU LOOK AT HISTORIC HOUSES DIFFERENT THAN YOU WOULD A, A NON HISTORIC HOUSE? WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, THE CONDITION OF IT, THE POSSIBILITY OF RESTORATION VERSUS DOWN, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S, IM IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER.

UM, I DO TRY TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

UM, WHEN THE MAJORITY OF THE HOUSE IS, IS IN THE CONDITION THAT THIS ONE IS IN, IT IS DIFFICULT TO TAKE THE HISTORIC VALUE IN MY OPINION.

IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT TO TAKE THE HISTORIC VALUE BECAUSE THERE'S, THE STRUCTURE OF IT IS, IS JUST SO FAR GONE.

IT'S, THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT.

SO IT'S REALLY THE STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS THAT, THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, NOT JUST, NOT JUST THE, UH, THE THE THE BUILDING FOUNDATION, BUT ALSO THE, THE FRAMING OF THE WALLS AND THE CORRECT YEAH, THE FLOOR SYSTEM, THE GIRDERS IS BEING, I THINK IS WHAT MR. SHELLEY REFERRED TO AS THE MAIN BEAMS. UH, THOSE BEING DETERIORATED WITH TERMITE AND MOISTURE DAMAGE.

UH, THERE IS NO MORE FLOOR JOISTS.

THE FLOOR JOISTER COMPLETELY GONE ON THE FIRST ON THE GROUND LEVEL.

UM, STUDS, UM, EVERYTHING IN THE HOUSE, IT'S, IT'S IN BAD SHAPE.

COULD IS IT POSSIBLE TO REPLACE THOSE, THOSE LARGE BEAMS, THOSE BEAMS THAT MR. SHELLEY TALKED ABOUT, OR THE ONES THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT? YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANNA SAY NOTHING'S IMPOSSIBLE, HOWEVER, UH,

[01:05:01]

MR. CHAIR.

YEAH, WE NEED TO LIMIT THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION OF ANY EVIDENCE TO THIS WITNESS'S DIRECT OBSERVATIONS AND OPINIONS BASED ON THE INFORMATION HE STUDIED.

I WAS GONNA ASK YOU A QUESTION MAYBE WE RELATED TO THAT, IS, IN YOUR OPINION, IS IT A HAZARD TO PUBLIC SAFETY AND WELFARE? YES.

AND I THINK YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT THE CONDITION OF FOUNDATIONS, WALL FLOORS, WALLS, WINDOWS, DOORS AND ROOFS, AND THAT'S WHERE YOUR CONCERN IS.

IT IS.

SO, SO THESE MAJOR STRUCTURE ELEMENTS THAT ARE, UH, ON THE, UH, HOLDING UP THE HOUSE, IS IT POSSIBLE TO JUST, UH, SISTER IN SOME BEAMS TO THE EXISTING BEAMS TO GIVE YOU THAT STRUCTURAL SUPPORT? I'M NOT AN ENGINEER.

UM, THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT TO SISTER TO, SO THE COMPLETE FLOOR SYSTEM WOULD, WOULD BE NEW, UM, TO ACHIEVE THAT.

THE HOUSE WOULD HAVE TO BE TEMPORARILY SUPPORTED UP OFF THE FOUNDATION.

UH, THE FOUNDATION THAT WAS FOUND THAT THERE'S NO FOOTINGS.

AND WHAT FOOTINGS WERE THERE FROM REPAIRS THAT APPEARED TO BE MADE OVER THE YEARS OR THEY DON'T MEET CODE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN INSUFFICIENT.

SO IT REALLY WOULD BE FROM THE FOOTING UP WOULD BE A REPLACEMENT.

SO FOOTINGS WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE, FOUNDATIONS WOULD'VE TO BE DONE, A FLOOR SYSTEM WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE.

AND ALL OF THAT IS WHAT SUPPORTS THE STRUCTURE THAT'S EXISTING ABOVE.

SO WHAT'S HOLDING UP THE STRUCTURE NOW? VERY LITTLE.

VERY LITTLE.

THERE'S SOME TEMPORARY SHORING AND BRACING THAT'S BEEN PLACED THERE.

UM, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU WALK IN THE HOUSE, I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S PICTURES IN THE PRESENTATION OF THAT.

I THINK WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE WHEN YOU WALK IN THE HOUSE THERE, THERE'S SOME, SOME POSTS AND BEAMS THAT KIND OF TEMPORARILY SUPPORT THE STRUCTURE.

UH, THEY'RE NOT PERMANENT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S TEMPORARILY WHAT'S KEEPING IT FROM COLLAPSING IN MY OPINION.

NOW THERE'S LIKE LARGE SIX BY SIXES OR SOMETHING? THAT'S CORRECT.

WITH THAT MR. SHELLEY, YOU'D WANT TO DO YOUR STAFF REPORT? NO OTHER QUESTIONS.

SO, UM, THIS IS, UH, OUR STAFF REPORT FOR SEVEN 10 NEW STREET.

THE HISTORIC PROPERTY NAME IS THE HUDSON HOUSE BUILT IN 1925.

IT IS A CONS CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY DESCRIPTION IS, UH, ONE STORY, TWO BAYS WIDE, THREE BAYS DEEP, 12 OVER ONE S, HIP ROOF PORCH, METAL SUPPORTS ON BRICK PIERS AND PLAIN EDGE SIDING, METAL CLAD HIP ROOF, INTERIOR CHIMNEY, AND THE EAST ROOF SLOPE.

AND IT HAS A REAR WING.

UM, SO, UH, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO PREFACE THEN THE REST OF THIS WITH, UH, THE SAME, UH, AS I DID WITH THE PREVIOUS ONES.

FOR THE RECORD, THE STAFF HAS PREPARED A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS STAFF REPORT DATED APRIL 15TH, 2026, WHICH IS PROVIDED TO THE APPLICANT AND INCLUDED IN THE EVIDENTIARY RECORD FOR TONIGHT'S HEARING SETS FORTH STAFF'S ANALYSIS OF THE APPLICABLE HISTORIC DESIGN STANDARDS ALONG WITH PROPOSED FINDINGS OF FACT AND RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS FOR THE BOARD'S CONSIDERATION.

WHILE THE REPORT ADDRESSES ALL APPLICABLE STANDARDS, I WOULD LIKE TO BRIEFLY DIRECT THE BOARD'S ATTENTION TO THREE AREAS THAT REQUIRED CLOSER ANALYSIS BASED ON THE SPECIFICS OF THIS APPLICATION.

THESE PORTIONS OF THE REPORT REFLECT AREAS WHERE STAFF IDENTIFIED QUESTIONS OR CONSIDERATIONS THAT MAY BE PARTICULARLY RELEVANT TO THE BOARD'S EVALUATION OF WHETHER THE PROPOSED WORK IS CON CONGRUOUS OR INCONGRUOUS WITH THE ADOPTED STANDARDS.

SO THE FIRST AREA IS, UM, WELL ACTUALLY, UH, AT THE TIME I WROTE THIS, THE SITE PLAN HAS NOT BEEN PROVIDED, BUT I DO HAVE ONE.

WE DO HAVE ONE, UH, IN HERE.

6.4 0.2, THREE, FOUR AND FIVE SHOWN HERE.

UH, THIS IS, THAT WOULD BE FOR THE, UH, PORTION.

ALRIGHT, LEMME BACK UP.

I'VE, UH, STOPPED, UH, THE PRESENTATION AT THE POINT AT WHICH THEY WERE DONE WITH PRESENTATION, THE APPLICATION FOR THE DEMOLITION.

AND I'M, UH, CONTINUING WITH ONLY THE PORTION OF MY STAFF REPORT THAT'S RE RELATED TO THE DEMOLITION.

SO, UH, THIS FIRST ONE RE APPLIES TO THE, UH, SECOND PART, UH, SO DOES THE SECOND AND THE THIRD.

SO I GUESS I HAVE NO OTHER CONCERNS AT THIS POINT.

SO I WILL CONTINUE WITH THE, FINISHING THIS OFF.

UM, THE, UH, STANDARDS, THERE'S ONLY FOUR STANDARDS IN THE GUIDELINES FOR DEMOLITION.

UH,

[01:10:01]

AND THEN WE GO THROUGH A PROCESS ACCORDING TO OUR PROCEDURES THAT HAS, UH, THREE CONSIDERATIONS.

UH, AND I HAVE THEM OUTLINED HERE AND WE HAVE SOME STAFF, UH, INPUT ON EACH OF THE ANSWERS.

UH, WE CAN GO THROUGH THEM BULLET BY BULLET AND GO BACK AND FORTH.

OR WE CAN JUST GO THROUGH AND WE CAN GIVE OUR STAFF OPINION FOR ALL THREE SECTIONS.

I THINK I'D LIKE TO DO EACH CONSIDERATION AGAINST INDIVIDUAL COMMISSIONER COMMENTS.

SO, UH, CONSIDERATION ONE IS TO ADDRESS THE HISTORICAL, CULTURAL AND ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STRUCTURE.

UM, IS IT A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE? AND THE ANSWER IS YES, AS INDICATED IN THE INVENTORY IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER REGISTRATION FORM FOR THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT, HOWEVER, DID NOT MAKE THE SEND BACK, UH, BOOK CORRECT, BUT THAT'S NOT ANY OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS.

I UNDERSTAND, RIGHT? AND IT APPEARS THAT IT WAS IN YOUR FAMILY SINCE 1976, LOOKING AT THE ORIGINAL.

UM, DO YOU WANT TO COME FORWARD? YEAH, I GUESS THAT'S THE NEXT BULLET.

UH, IS IT SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE OF ITS HISTORIC USE IN EVENT, A PERSON, A BUILDER, OR AN ARCHITECT, AND WE SAID MAYBE, UH, NONE IS INDICATED AND NATIONAL REGISTER REGISTRATION FORM FOR THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT, HOWEVER, THE SHIPPO FILE, THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE FILE INDICATES A JOSEPH C. JONES OWNED THE HOUSE WITH DES EP JONES FROM 1926 TO 1947, THE 19 26, 37 AND 54 CITY DIRECTORIES INDICATE MR. JONES WAS A CLERK FOR THE RAILWAY MAIL SERVICE IN 1926 AND 1937.

AND BY 1954, JONES WAS WORKING FOR THE US POST OFFICE IN 1937.

THEY HAD FOUR CHILDREN UNDER 16 LIVING WITH THEM AT THE TIME, PLUS JOSEPH C. JONES JR.

A STUDENT APPARENTLY OVER 16 YEARS OLD ALSO LIVED THERE.

AND THE HUDSON FAMILY HAS A LARGE NUMBER OF MILITARY VETERANS FROM SEVERAL BRANCHES, AND THEY CAN FILL US IN ON THAT HISTORY.

BUT MRS. BARRETT IS, IS SIGNIFICANT TOO.

SO, , YES, I IT IT APPEARS THAT YOUR FAMILY ACTUALLY HAD THIS IN 1976.

THERE WAS A BARRETT THAT PURCHASED IT.

THAT IS CORRECT.

SO 50 YEARS, 20 NAME.

THE NAME OF THAT.

YOUR, YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE.

MY NAME IS THERESA BARRETT AND, UM, I ACTUALLY LIVE AT 12 12TH HIGHLAND AVENUE IN NEW BERN, BUT THE PROPERTY AT SEVEN 10 NEW STREET IS, IS MY PROPERTY.

SO, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON SIGNIFICANCE BECAUSE OF ITS HISTORIC USE IN THE, BEEN A PERSON, BUILDER OR AN ARCHITECT? UH, THE NEXT ONE IS, YEAH, I ALSO DID SOME RESEARCH AND, AND, UM, DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING OF, OF GREAT SIGNIFICANCE.

WE'VE ADDRESSED THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE, PERHAPS FOR MR. WELDON'S.

OH WAIT, JUST, UM, WELL YOU ALSO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT IF IT'S THE LAST OR OLDEST EXAMPLE OF A CERTAIN BUILDING TYPE.

AND THIS IS NOT INDICATED IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER, UH, REGISTRATION FORM FOR THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT, NOR IS THIS OTHERWISE KNOWN TO STAFF.

SO THEN THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE, NUMBER TWO, CONSIDERATION TWO, WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS OF FOUNDATIONS, FLOORS, WALLS, WINDOWS, DOORS AND ROOFS? UM, UH, YOU'VE HEARD TESTIMONY FROM THE BUILDING INSPECTOR, UH, AND THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED EVIDENCE THAT THE CONDITIONS OF SEVERAL SIGNIFICANT SECTIONS OF THE FOUNDATION ON THE FIRST FLOOR ARE CURRENTLY IN AN UNSTABLE OR, UH, CONDITION.

THE STRUCTURE IN THE MIDST OF A MAJOR REHAB IS CURRENTLY UNSAFE FOR ENTRY.

HOWEVER, MOST, MOST OR ALL OF THE HPC MEMBERS HAVE INSPECTED THE PROPERTY ON THE EXTERIOR AND PEERING THROUGH THE FIRST FLOOR WINDOW OPENINGS.

DO YOU, DO YOU WANT TO, ANY COMMENTS FROM THE STAFF, FROM THE COMMISSIONERS ON CONDITION? THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THEM WHAT THEIR OBSERVATIONS ARE BECAUSE, UM, UH, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO SHARE WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN SO THAT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME INFORMATION.

UM, IS THAT THE, THE RIM BEAM PROBABLY FAILED AND FORCED THE REST OF THE WALL TO PUSH DOWN AND HELP PUSH THAT, UH, THE FOUNDATION OUT.

WE DEFER TO OUR ARCHITECT FIRST.

HOW ABOUT THE JOB ? UM, I GUESS I WOULD, I WOULD ECHO WHAT OUR BUILDING INSPECTOR SAID.

UM, IT'S, SHE'S IN ROUGH SHAPE.

UM, I, I SAID THIS LAST TIME AT OUR DESIGN REVIEW MEETING THAT I, I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THE BALLOON FRAMING ALONE IS ALSO A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO THE FACT THAT IT, IT IS STILL STANDING UP.

UM, THE FOUNDATION IS DEFINITELY FAILING.

YOU KNOW, I I I SUSPECT THAT PROBABLY WHAT HAPPENED THERE,

[01:15:01]

AND NO ONE'S EVER GONNA REALLY KNOW FOR SURE.

BUT THAT'S KIND OF MY SUSPICION THERE.

UM, IT ALSO PROBABLY DIDN'T HELP THAT THERE WAS SO MUCH DEGRADATION, UM, TO THE FIRST FLOOR JOIST, THAT THAT ALSO HELPED KICK THAT, THAT WALL OUT.

SO IT'S TOUGH, YOU KNOW, THINKING BACK THEN, THE OTHER POINT TO THINK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT IS COULD IT BE SAVED? UM, YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS OPINION, I GUESS IS THAT I TEND TO SIDE WITH THE, WITH THE PARTY THAT WAS ENGAGED TO TALK ABOUT OR DISCUSS LIFTING THE HOME.

UH, I THINK IT IS A DANGER TO HEALTH AND SAFETY AT THE MOMENT, AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE IN THERE WITH EQUIPMENT.

SO I DON'T BLAME ANYBODY FOR WANTING TO PUT THEIR WORKERS IN DANGER IN THAT, IN THAT TYPE OF SITUATION.

UM, SO YEAH, I I TEND TO THINK THAT THIS IS A, A, A DEFINITE CASE FOR DEMOLITION.

ANY OTHER OBSERVATIONS FROM GOING THERE? UM, SO, SO JOHN, FOR THE SAME REASONS THAT THE BUILDING INSPECTOR, JUST THAT NOT ONLY ARE THE, THE FOUNDATION STRUCTURAL MEMBERS PRETTY LOOKS LIKE PRETTY TERM MIGHTY BROUGHT IT, BUT I THINK YOU'VE, YOU NOTED SOME OF THOSE ALSO IN THE FRAMING AND ON THE, UM, THE, THOSE LINKS ON THE, ON THE TOP OF THE WALLS AS WELL.

YEAH, FROM WHAT YOU COULD OBSERVE, THEY LOOK, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS LIKE THE TERMITES HAVE GOTTEN EVERYWHERE AND I, I DID NOT GO INSIDE THE STRUCTURE AND FULLY, FULLY EXAMINE ANYTHING.

UM, BUT FROM THESE PHOTOS ACTUALLY GIVE A LOT MORE INFORMATION THAN YOU CAN, YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE WITHOUT GOING IN INSIDE THE STRUCTURE.

UM, IT, IT, IT'S A .

IT'S IN RASHID.

THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE REALITY OF IT.

MY OBSERVATION, I THINK THREE YEARS AGO WE WENT THROUGH THIS BUILDING AND THE DETERIORATION SINCE THEN IS DRAMATIC, UH, BUT IT'S NOT UNEXPECTED.

AND THAT WAS THE GENESIS OF TRYING TO GET A REHABILITATION.

AND, AND I THINK IT'S NOTEWORTHY TO SAY THAT NO, THE, THE HPC DID ISSUE A COA FOR THE REHAB OF THAT BUILDING.

AND I THINK THE, THE INTENT WAS TO, TO REHAB IT.

BUT ONCE THEY OPENED IT UP AND TOOK A LOOK AT ALL THE MEMBERS, WHICH IS I THINK WHY WE'RE IN, UM, UM, IN THIS DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW.

I, I AGREE WITH JOHN'S ANALYSIS ON, I THINK'S BEYOND REPAIR.

IT'S ALSO NOT ONLY UNSAFE TO BE IN THERE, BUT JUST SAY FOR ANYONE, IT'S, IT'S NOT COURTED OFF.

SO ANY CHILDREN, ANIMALS GOING THROUGH IT, IT IS ABSOLUTELY A HAZARD.

MR. CHAIRMAN, I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT EARLY HOUSES IN NEWBURN FOR 45 YEARS, AND THIS ONE'S THE WORST I'VE SEEN.

IT'S MUCH FURTHER GONE THAN ANY OTHER STRUCTURE I'VE EVER SEEN IN NEW.

APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.

UM, AND I'LL JUST CLARIFY FOR EVERYONE WE FIRST CONSIDER THE DEMOLITION.

WE DO NOT CONSIDER WHAT MIGHT GO THERE.

THAT'S A SEPARATE HEARING, UH, WHICH WILL BE TONIGHT, BUT WE ONLY CONSIDER NOW THE DEMOLITION.

WITH THAT WE HAVE SOME STEPS TO CONFIRM.

I BELIEVE WE'VE CONFIRMED IT DOES QUALIFY AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

UH, SHIPPO DID NOT INDICATE IT HAS STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE, AND THEY DID NOT PROVIDE AN INTERIOR EVALUATION OF THE STRUCTURE.

NOT YET.

UM, SO THAT BRINGS UP A QUESTION, UM, MATT, MAYBE YOU CAN ASSIST IS BY OUR, BY THE GUIDELINES.

IT, IT, IT DENOTES THAT THERE, AND I, I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT LANGUAGE, BUT THAT SHIPPO SHOULD TAKE A LOOK AT ANY STRUCTURE BEFORE WE GO FORWARD WITH DEMOLITION.

AND I KNOW YOU'VE, YOU'VE WRITTEN TO THEM AND ASK THEM TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE STRUCTURE, BUT THEY HAVE NOT DONE SO OR HAVE NOT REPORTED BACK TO YOU ON THE CONDITION OF THAT BUILDING.

SO THEY, THEY HAVE TOLD ME THAT THEY HAVE BEEN IN, OR THEY HAVE LOOKED AT IT, SORRY.

UH, BUT THEY HAVE NOT YET FINISHED THEIR REPORT.

THEY ARE TYPICALLY ALLOWED 30 DAYS TO DO SO, AND IT'S ONLY BEEN TWO WEEKS SINCE WE ASKED THEM.

BUT I DO WANT TO CLARIFY, UNLESS THEY TELL US THAT IT HAS STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE OR SOME SIGNIFICANCE, WE, THEY REALLY HAVE NO ROLE IN THIS.

IT'S STILL OUR DECISION.

THAT'S CORRECT, MR. CHAIR.

THEIR, UH, THEIR, THEIR ADVICE IS THAT ALONE ADVICE.

UM, SO IT'S NON-BINDING IN ANY WAY.

AND, AND THE REASON I I BRING THAT UP IS, IS IN OUR, IN OUR STANDARDS THAT SAYS, UM, PREPARATION, UM, OF A DEMO, COA APPLICATION SHOULD INCLUDE A DETAILED REPORT ON THE HISTORY OF THE STRUCTURE AND PROPERTY FROM SHIPPO.

NOW, I KNOW YOU'VE DONE A DETAILED LOOK AND, AND HAVE THAT

[01:20:01]

ANALYSIS.

DOES THE FACT THAT SHIPPO HAS NOT WEIGHED IN YET, DOES THAT, IS THAT A FACTOR IN WHETHER WE DECIDE THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD OR NOT WITH A DEMOLITION? NO, SIR.

I WOULD SAY IT DOES NOT, BECAUSE THE FACTS AND THE STORED NATURE OF THE HOME DON'T CHANGE, UH, BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR RECORD AND BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT SHIPPO HAS BEEN ABLE TO COMPILE, UM, SO THAT THAT INFORMATION CAN BE TRANSMITTED AFTER THIS CAMERA.

YEAH, I MEAN, WHAT IT'S LITERALLY SAYS IS THEY PROVIDE A WRITTEN EVALUATION AND OPINION ON THE ARCHITECTURAL HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, NOT ON THE STRUCTURE ACCORDING TO OUR GUIDELINES.

AND AS FAR AS STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE, UH, THAT'S, THAT HAS BEEN A VERY HIGH BAR.

AND IN FACT, I THINK NEWBERG DOES NOT HAVE A, SOMETHING THAT'S CONSIDERED A STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE.

WE DO NOT.

SO I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF IN THIS CASE, THEY WOULD COME BACK AND SAY, YES, IT DOES.

AND WE HAVE VISITED THE STRUCTURE.

UH, WE'VE HAD A DESIGN REVIEW.

UM, WITH THAT, UH, YOU STILL HAVE CONSIDERATION THREE TO DO.

UH, WELL, THE SECOND BULLET UNDER TWO, IS IT, IS IT A HAZARD TO PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE? AND THE BUILDING INSPECTOR HAS PROVIDED A REPORT AND COMMENTED ABOUT THIS DURING THE HEARING.

UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THAT ANY FARTHER.

UH, THEN CONSIDERATION THREE IS TO ADDRESS ATTEMPTED PRESERVATION EFFORTS.

UM, FIRST IS, HAVE OPTIONS FOR REHABILITATION BEEN EXPLORED WITH PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS? UH, AND, UH, I, UH, WE SAID YES, A REHABILITATION WAS UNDERWAY WHEN THE CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURE WAS DETERMINED BY THE APPLICANT TO BE BEYOND REASONABLE TO CONTINUE.

THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT, UH, EXPLORED WITH PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS, BUT THAT IS WHAT WAS ATTEMPTED BY THE OWNER.

THE NEXT BULLET IS, UH, HAS THE APPLICANT BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL IN SEEKING ALTERNATIVES TO DEMOLITION? UM, SO I THINK THE, UH, CONTRACTOR MAY BE ABLE TO SPEAK ABOUT THAT.

UH, AND SO, UH, IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO ASK, ASK THE CONTRACTOR ABOUT THAT, THAT WOULD BE THE TIME TO DO THAT.

ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? AND THEN THE THIRD BULLET WOULD BE, UH, TO AS, WHAT WAS OUR COMMENT? NO COMMENTS.

15.411 THROUGH 15.429, NEW BERN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, AND THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION'S POLICIES AND RULES AND PROCEDURES BASED ON THE FOLLOWING STANDARDS AND FINDINGS OF FACT, DEMOLITION 6.41 THROUGH 6.4 0.5, AND THE FINDINGS OF FACT BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE PROJECT APPLICATION.

THIRD, THIRD BULLET WAS A QUESTION, HAVE ALTERNATIVES FOR STRUCTURE, RELOCATION AND SALE OF PROPERTY BEEN PURSUED? AND WE HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THAT.

SO, AND THEN YOU ALREADY WENT OVER THE NEXT SECTION A WITH REGARD TO, UH, CONTRIBUTING STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE AND THE, UH, SHIPPO, UH, EVALUATION, UH, THEN THAT YOU HAVE, UH, YOU'VE ALL BEEN INVITED TO VIEW THE PR VIEW THE PROPERTY.

UM, THE STRUCTURE WAS UNSAFE TO ENTER.

SO MOST OR ALL OF THE HPC MEMBERS DID VISIT THE SITE AND ACCESS THE STRUCTURE, AND WERE ABLE TO VIEW INTO THE INTERIOR OF THE FIRST FLOOR AREA IN SEVERAL LOCATIONS, THE FIRST FLOOR, AND MOST OF ITS STRUCTURE HAD BEEN REMOVED.

SO THE FOUNDATION WALL STRUCTURE AND CEILING STRUCTURE WERE ABLE TO BE SEEN FROM THE INSIDE TO THE GROUND.

THEN, UH, SUPPOSED TO ADDRESS C UM, THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER PROVIDE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING REPORT.

UM, THERE IS NO STRUCTURAL ENGINEER HERE TODAY, AND D IS AT LEAST ONE DESIGN REVIEW MUST BE HELD, WHICH WE DID.

UH, E IS ABOUT TO APPROVE OR DENY.

DEMOLITION MUST INCLUDE FINDINGS OF FACT AND REFERENCES TO SPECIFIC HISTORIC GUIDELINES.

F THE HBC SHALL WORK WITH A PROPERTY OWNER TO IDENTIFY ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES AND MATERIALS THAT CAN BE SALVAGED AND REUSED.

IT MAY REQUIRE REMOVAL OF SALVAGEABLE BUILDING PARTS AS PART OF THE CONDITIONS FOR ISSUING THE COA.

SO STAFF CAN ASSIST WITH THAT, UH, IF YOU WOULD LIKE.

AND THEN, UH, GA STRUCTURE MUST BE DOCUMENTED FOR A HISTORIC RECORD BEFORE IT'S DEMOLISHED.

SO THE HPC SHALL DETERMINE THE FORM AND NATURE OF THE DOCUMENTATION.

UH, OUR RESPONSE OR INPUT TO THIS IS IF DEMOLITION IS APPROVED AND THE HPC DECIDES THAT PHOTOS ALREADY PROVIDED.

DO NOT SUFFICE FOR

[01:25:01]

THIS REQUIREMENT.

STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT PROVIDING THE NECESSARY INFORMATION TO STAFF BECOMES A CONDITION ON THE COA, BUT YOU MAY DECIDE THAT THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT THEY'VE PROVIDED, UM, ARE SUFFICIENT, UM, TO NOTE IS THAT, UH, THIS IS BECAUSE THIS IS NOW THE THIRD APPLICATION ON THIS, UH, PROJECT, ON THIS BUILDING, UH, THERE ARE, I WOULD SAY, HUNDREDS OF PHOTOGRAPHS OF THIS HOUSE, UM, FROM WAY BEFORE THE, UM, THE, UH, REHABILITATION WAS STARTED.

UM, AND THEN, UM, UH, THOSE THREE BULLETS THERE ARE, IF, IF YOU FEEL LIKE THAT STILL ISN'T ENOUGH.

AND THEN WE HAVE THE STATEMENTS OF REASON FOR THIS PORTION, THE DELIBERATION ON WHETHER OR NOT, UH, TO ALLOW DEMOLITION OF THIS STRUCTURE ONE THROUGH SIX.

AND WE ALSO HAVE, UM, TWO, UM, SUGGESTED CONDITIONS THAT BE THE END OF OUR REPORT.

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS OR COMMENTS? NO.

WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M TRYING TO LOOK AT THIS, YOU KNOW, ALL THE FACTORS THAT WE'VE CONSIDERED.

UM, YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT, WE LOOK AT TWO DOCUMENTS TO START WITH, UH, WHAT'S IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

AND THEN IF IT'S IN BECK'S BOOK, UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS HOW MUCH, HOW MUCH SOUND HISTORIC FABRIC DO WE HAVE VERSUS HOW MUCH IS NOT SALVAGEABLE? UH, I MEAN, MY EVALUATION, AND JOHN, MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME.

I MEAN, IT'S PROBABLY OVER 50% OF THIS IS GONE.

UH, RIGHT, I REMEMBER.

I, I ALWAYS THINK BACK TO, UH, RICHARD'S COMMENT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, HATCHET THAT LITTLE GEORGE WASHINGTON USED TO CUT DOWN THE CHERRY TREE.

SOMEONE CLAIMS THAT THEY HAVE THAT HATCHET AND THE HANDLE'S BEEN REPLACED, AND THE AX HEAD WAS CRACKED, AND THAT'S BEEN REPLACED.

SO DO WE STILL HAVE WASHINGTON'S HATCHET? UH, I THINK IN THIS CASE, YOU KNOW, TO TO, UH, REHAB, ANYTHING CAN BE REHABBED, BUT TO ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, MAKE THIS A SOUND STRUCTURE, WE'RE TALKING, PROBABLY OVER 50% OF IT WOULD HAVE TO BE REPLACED.

SO WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY GOT HERE? UH, I THINK IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THE FLOOR JOINTS ARE GONE.

RIM BEAMS HAVE DETERIORATED.

UH, THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT TO ASSIST TO THE FOOTINGS HAVE FAILED.

UM, AGREED BUILDING CODE IN 1925 WAS VERY DIFFERENT FROM BILLING CODE TODAY.

BUT WHEN THE, WHEN THE PIERS ARE LAYING ON THEIR SIDE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S, UH, A REAL ISSUE THERE.

UH, I LOOK BACK TO PREVIOUS, UH, DEMOLITION THINGS THAT HAVE COME IN FRONT OF US.

UH, THERE WAS A SADDLER STORE ON NORTH CR STREET.

IT WAS PROCESSED THROUGH AT LEAST 10 YEARS AGO.

UH, THAT WASN'T CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

IT WAS LITERALLY PROPPED UP WITH, UH, TWO BY EIGHT CRUTCHES, AND PROBABLY 75% OF THAT STRUCTURE, UH, WOULD NEED TO BE REPLACED.

UH, I MEAN, AGAIN, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE LEFT THAT WAS ORIGINALLY HISTORIC FABRIC? NOT MUCH.

UH, I THINK OF THE OTHER SITUATION, WHICH WAS A STRUCTURE ON THE CORNER OF QUEEN AND NORTH CRAVEN STREET.

IT WAS AN 18 AND 70 ISH HOUSE.

THERE WAS LOTS OF TERMITE DAMAGE, BUT IT STILL HAD A GOOD STR, UH, A GOOD FOUNDATION.

AND IT WAS STRUCTURALLY SOUND AND IT WAS REHABBED.

AND IT STANDS TODAY, I DON'T THINK THIS STRUCTURE AT SEVEN 10 NEW STREET, UH, IT, IT'S JUST, IT'S A VERY , A VERY LONG, HARD REACH TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE THE STRUCTURE SHOULD NOT BE DEMOLISHED.

IS THERE A MOTION? LEMME SEE IF I GET ALL THESE PARTS AND PIECES TOGETHER.

UM, MR. CHAIR, UM, I MOVED TO APPROVE THE PROPOSED DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURE LOCATED AT SEVEN 10 NEW STREET BY FINDING THE APPLICATION NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE CITY OF NEW BERN CODE OF ORDINANCES, SECTION

[01:30:01]

AND THE TESTIMONY PROVIDED AT THIS HEARING ARE THAT THE APPLICATION IS FOR THE DEMOLITION OF A RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE LOCATED AT SEVEN 10 NEW STREET, WHICH IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE BUILT IN 1925 IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.

AND THE STRUCTURE IS LISTED IN THE 2003 NATIONAL REGISTRY INVENTORY.

AND THREE, THE PROPERTY HAD BEEN GRANTED A COA BY A HIGH, BY THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION TO RESTORE THE STRUCTURE.

HOWEVER, DURING THE RESTORATION PROCESS, THE STRUCTURAL MEMBERS OF THE, OF THE STRUCTURE WERE EXPOSED, AND THE SIGNIFICANT DETERIORATION OF THE STRUCTURAL MEMBERS BY TERMITES, INSECTS, AND ROT WAS DOCUMENTED AND PRESENTED TO THE HPC AND FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE HPC VISITED THE STRUCTURE AND WERE ABLE TO OBSERVE THE POOR CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURE AND ITS ELEMENTS FIRSTHAND.

AND FIVE, THE CITY'S CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL REVIEWED THE OVERALL CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURE AND RECOMMENDED DEMOLITION AND RECONSTRUCTION.

AND SIX, THE HISTORY OF THE STRUCTURE HAS BEEN RESEARCHED AND CAN PROVIDED BY THE, BY THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE.

UM, AND THE HBC HAS FOLLOWED ITS PROCEDURE FOR REVIEWING AN APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION OF A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH A CONDITION THAT IS, WAS NOTED IN, UH, SECTION F AND G OF THE STAFF REPORT THAT THE HPC WILL WILL WORK WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER TO IDENTIFY ANY ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES AND MATERIALS THAT COULD BE SALVAGED AND REUSED, AND THAT THE, UH, HPC STAFF WILL TAKE A LOOK TO AND VERIFY THAT ALL OF THE HISTORIC RECORD PHOTOS ARE SUFFICIENT FOR THE, UM, UH, TO, TO FULFILL THAT REQUIREMENT.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND? A MOTION TO SECOND? ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.

OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.

NOW WE WILL MOVE INTO A DISCUSSION OF THE REPLACEMENT PROPERTY.

THE COA WOULD NOT BE ISSUED UNTIL WE APPROVE THE REPLACEMENT.

OR IS THAT LIKE A VENT? UH, I DO NOT KNOW, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S, UH, S OKAY.

SO, UM, WE'LL START WITH THE PROPOSAL TO USE THIS DESIGN HERE FOR THE, UH, IN THE REPLACEMENT INFILL HOUSE.

UM, THIS IS A REBUILT RED SEA PROJECT, AND THIS IS ONE OF THEIR, UH, AVAILABLE DESIGNS.

THIS IS ONE OF THEIR TWO, TWO STORY, UH, DESIGNS.

UH, THIS ONE, UH, BEING A LITTLE BIT WIDER AND LARGER.

AND SO WE CAN SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, PRIMARILY, UH, HAS A FULL WIDTH FRONT PORCH.

UH, AND, UH, THE LEFT SIDE OF THE HOUSE IS PULLED OUT A LITTLE BIT FARTHER THAN THE RIGHT SIDE.

UH, AND, UH, GABLE ROOFS FACING THE FRONT STREET WITH THE GABLES FACING THE FRONT.

UH, THIS IS THE FLOOR PLAN FOR THOSE.

UH, THE HOUSE IS TOTAL, UH, TOTAL DEPTH OF 37 FOOT FOUR INCHES, AND TOTAL WIDTH OF 21 FOOT FOUR INCHES.

THESE ARE THE ELEVATIONS FOR THAT.

UM, SHOWING, UH, THAT SAME DESIGN ON THE FRONT, ON THE SIDE, ON THE RIGHT SIDE, THIS WOULD BE THE EAST SIDE.

UH, WE HAVE THREE WINDOWS THERE, AND WE CAN SEE THERE THE, UH, PRE REC, THE REQUISITE VERTICAL ORIENTATION.

UH, THEY HAVE, UM, AND THE SMALLER ONES ARE FOUR OVER ONE, AND THE LARGER ONES SIX OVER ONE, UH, WHICH IS THE SAME AS WHAT IS OUT FRONT.

AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE WEST SIDE, UH, WE HAVE FOUR WINDOWS, SIX OVER SIX, UH, SIX OVER ONE.

UH, AND YOU CAN SEE A DOOR OUT ON, UH, THAT'S FACING THE LITTLE SMALL PORCH THAT'S OUT THE BACK.

AND THEN THE REAR ELEVATION HAS A THREE WINDOWS, UH, WITH, UH, LOOKS LIKE A FRENCH DOOR OR A DOUBLE DOUBLE FRENCH DOOR, UH, FACING THAT SAME LITTLE PORCH STOOP AREA.

UM, THE SIDING.

WELL, SO WE'RE GOING TO, UH, I'M WASTING THAT.

IS, IS THAT A WINDOW UP IN THE, THE ATTIC,

[01:35:01]

UH, AND THEN, UM, IN THIS CASE, UH, THEY PROVIDED SOME MORE INFORMATION, SOME MORE SPECIFIC INFORMATION ABOUT MANY OF THE, UH, PARTS OF THIS, THE, UH, EXISTING HOME FOOTPRINT AS INDICATED HERE AS I DID JUST NOW.

UH, AND THEN THE FOUNDATION, UH, IS, UH, TO WE AND THE DESIGN REVIEW.

UH, THERE WAS THE QUESTION ABOUT WHICH KIND OF FOUNDATION WOULD BE USED BECAUSE THE PLANS, UH, INCLUDED BOTH KI UH, TWO KINDS OF FOUNDATIONS, A SLAB FOUNDATION ON GRADE A SLAB, ACTUALLY THREE KINDS SLAB FOUNDATION ELEVATED, OR A CRAWLSPACE FOUNDATION.

AND SO THEY ARE, THEY HAVE OPTED FOR THE CRAWLSPACE FOUNDATION.

AND SO THIS FIRST COMMENT SAYS TO DELETE, UH, THE PAGE WITH THE OPTIONAL SLAB FOUNDATION PLANS AND DETAILS.

UH, AND THE MASONRY FOUNDATION WILL BE BRICK VENEER, UH, AS SHOWN, AND THERE IS A WALL SECTION FOR THAT AS WELL.

GONNA MAKE THIS A LITTLE BIT BIGGER BECAUSE IT'S SO SMALL.

UM, SO, UH, AND THEY POINT OUT THAT THE EXISTING HOME FOUNDATION CONSISTS OF BRICK PIERS WITH BRICK CURTAIN WALLS BETWEEN THE PIERS.

SO THE NEW FOUNDATION WILL BE CMU WITH A BRICK VENEER CONSTRUCTED TO SIMULATE THE BRICK PIERS WITH BRICK INFILL IN BETWEEN, WITH BRICK CURTAIN WALLS, RECESSED ONE INCH TO VISUALLY DELINEATE THE PIERS.

THEN, UH, VENTS AND ACCESS DOORS WILL BE ALIGNED WITH WINDOWS ABOVE OR CENTERING THEM BETWEEN PIERS, WHICH IS ONE OF OUR REQUIREMENTS.

UH, THEY ARE PROPOSING DECORATIVE METAL VENTS OR PIERCED BRICK LATTICE BUILT INTO SIMULATED BRICK.

THE BRICK SIMULATED BRICK CURTAIN WALLS TO PROVIDE CODE COMPLIANT CRAWL SPACE VENTILATION.

AS FAR AS THE EXTERIOR SIDING AND TRIM GOES, IT'LL BE FIVE INCH REVEAL LAP SIDING, SMOOTH FIBER CEMENT WITH FIBER CEMENT SHINGLE DETAIL ON FRONT AND REAR END GABLES.

UH, AS NOTED IN THOSE ELEVATIONS, UH, THE FIVE QUARTER BY FOUR WINDOW DOOR AND CORNER TRIM IS, UH, WITH THEY'RE PLANNING ON USING.

THEN, UM, LET'S SEE, WHERE WAS I? OKAY, THE EXISTING HOME SIDING IS A FIVE INCH REVEAL PAINTED LAP SIDING WITH THREE AND THREE QUARTER INCH CORNER TRIMS AND FOUR AND A HALF INCH WINDOW TRIM.

SO, UM, THEY'RE GOING WITH FOUR INCH AND THE PORCH RAILS AND STAIR RAILS IF THE PORCH SURFACE EXCEEDS.

SO CURRENTLY THEY'RE PRO PROSING, NO, UH, PORCH RAILING.

UH, BUT IF THE PORCH SURFACE EXCEEDS 30 INCHES FROM THE ADJACENT GRADE, UH, THE NORTH CAROLINA BUILDING CODE REQUIRES GUARDRAILS.

UH, AND THEY WOULD THEN BE USING RAILING DETAIL SEVEN B, UM, UH, ON, UH, PAGE A 2.1, UH, ONE BY EIGHT BOARD VERTICAL BETWEEN ONE BY FOUR HORIZONTAL RAILS WITH TWO BY FOUR TOP RAIL PAINTED TO MATCH THE HOUSE TRIM.

AND SO THAT WAS PROVIDED BY, UH, THE NC REBUILD, UH, REPRESENTATIVE WHO IS HERE TODAY, IF YOU WANT TO ASK HIM ANY MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.

THEY ALSO PROVIDED, UH, A SITE PLAN.

UH, AND THIS IS, UH, SHOWS THAT, UH, THE DIMENSIONS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THE LOCATION OF THAT ON THE PROPERTY.

AND, UH, YOU CAN SEE THAT WITH ONLY ONE FOOT LEFT ON, UH, UH, TO SPARE ON THE, UM, WEST SIDE, UH, THE PROPERTY LINE, UH, WOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED THEM TO BUILD THIS ON THIS PROPERTY.

SO THEY HAVE, UH, BEEN WORKING TO, UH, COMBINE THE TWO LOTS TOGETHER IN ORDER TO AVOID THAT SIDE YARD SETBACK PROBLEM.

AND ALSO, UH, THE FRONT YARD SETBACK IS NOTED TO BE LINED UP WITH SEVEN 12 NEW STREET, WHICH IS THE PROPERTY RIGHT NEXT TO IT, TO THE LEFT, TO THE WEST.

UH, AND SO THAT TOO WOULD THEN SATISFY THE FRONT YARD SETBACK.

AND THEN THEY HAVE NOW NOTED THAT FROM THE, FROM THE REAR WALL TO THE CLOSEST REAR PROPERTY LINE IS, UH, APPROXIMATELY 15 FEET, WHICH IS CERTAINLY, UH, WITHIN THE REQUIREMENT OF SIX FEET OR MORE.

AND THAT, UH, JUST SHOWS YOU THE REST OF THE SITE PLAN THERE.

AND THEY'RE FIGURING THAT THE FRONT PROPERTY LINE IS ABOUT A FOOT AWAY FROM THE BACK OF THE SIDEWALK BASED ON MEASUREMENTS OF THE, UH, 40 FOOT, UM, WIDTH OF THE STREET AND

[01:40:01]

HALF OF THAT BEING 20 FEET.

UM, SO THAT'S WHERE THEY FIGURE THEY'RE MEASURING TWO, UH, BUT AS LONG AS THEY'RE LINED UP WITH SEVEN 12 NEW STREET, THAT FRONT YARD SHOULD SET, SHOULD WORK ANYWAY.

UH, LET'S NEXT.

SO THESE ARE NOW MORE, UM, ACTUAL ARCHITECTURAL PLANS FOR THE, FOR THE APPLICANT.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FOUNDATION PLAN, A FIRST FLOOR PLAN, SECOND FLOOR PLAN, UH, I'M SORRY, SECOND FLOOR IS IN THE MIDDLE, FIRST FLOOR IS ON THE RIGHT.

UH, WE HAVE BUILDING SECTIONS HERE, AND THEY SHOW US THE FOUNDATION WITH THE, UH, BRICK VENEER, THE CROSS SPACE FOUNDATION.

THERE'S A SECTION ALSO SHOWING THE CRAWL SPACE IN THERE.

UM, IT'S MORE OF THE DETAILS.

UH, THERE IS DETAIL IN HERE FOR THE, SO THESE DETAILS HERE, THIS IS THE A 2.1 OR A 1.3 I GUESS, THAT, UH, THIS IS THE ONE WITH ALL THE SLAB ON GREAT DETAILS THAT WOULD BE DELETED.

THEN, UH, THESE ARE VERY, IS THAT DETAIL SEVEN B COMING UP, THE ONE THAT YOU MENTIONED WITH, WITH THE RAILING, IF THEY WERE TO NEED IT, RIGHT? I THINK IT IS COMING UP.

SO HERE WE HAVE SOME DETAILS OF THE, UH, FRONT PORCH POSTS.

UM, THEY'RE SHOWING, UH, SOME BRICK.

AND THEN THESE, UM, UH, OH, YOU GUYS, UH, TAPERED.

THERE WE GO.

TAPERED, UM, WOOD COLUMNS.

UH, ARE THEY, ARE THEY NOTED AS WOOD ONE BY EIGHT? WELL, UM, FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, UM, IT CAN BE, IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE.

I JUST WAS WONDERING WHAT IT WAS.

RIGHT? YES.

IT DOES NOT SAY SPECIFICALLY WOOD IN THIS, UH, DETAIL HERE.

AND SO HERE THEY'RE ALSO CALLING OUT MORE OF THE, UH, SPECIFIC, UM, MATERIALS.

THEY'RE ALL LISTED HERE DOWN THE MIDDLE.

UH, AND UM, YOU CAN SEE HERE THE DRAWING SHOWS MORE TAPERED, UH, COLUMNS.

NOW IT LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE A COUPLE OF OPTIONS ACTUALLY UP HERE.

UH, SOME HAVE THE PANELIZED KIND OF APPROACH AND SOME ARE JUST SOLID.

UM, SOME MAY BE ROUND.

THIS ONE HERE ON THE RIGHT IS ROUND, THE OTHERS ARE ALL SQUARE.

SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE OPTIONS FOR THE, UM, PORCH COLUMNS.

BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE ALL ON THESE, UH, UH, SHORT BRICK PIERS.

UM, AND LET'S SEE.

AND THEN THEY REFERRED TO THE, UH, THE SPECIAL TREATMENT OF THE, UH, THE SIDING ON THE GABLES.

YOU CAN SEE THAT HERE AS WELL.

UM, WE USUALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE MATERIALS OF THE WINDOWS AND THE DOORS ARE, AND IT ALSO LOOKS LIKE THE, UH, UH, DOOR FOR THE, UH, THE FRENCH DOORS HAS AN OPTION TO BE ONE OR TWO.

ALRIGHT, AND SO THEN, UM, I'M READY TO CONTINUE OUR STAFF REPORT.

UM, I DID HAVE THE, SO GOING BACK TO THE, UH, THE PREFACE PIECE, I HAVE THOSE THREE ITEMS THAT DIDN'T APPLY TO THE DEMOLITION, BUT THEY DO APPLY TO THIS.

AND THE ONE IS THAT, UM, THE FIRST ONE WAS THAT THE SITE PLAN WASN'T PROVIDED.

SO WE'VE SEEN THAT THAT'S BEEN TAKEN CARE OF.

UM, THEY, UH, HAVE NO UTILITIES OR EXTERIOR LIGHT FIXTURES ARE SHOWN AND SHOULD BE RESOLVED BEFORE BEGINNING CONSTRUCTION FOR OR INSTALLATION OF THE UTILITIES AND EXTERIOR LIGHTING.

UH, THEY MAY HAVE A SEPARATE MECHANICAL SHEET, UH, AND I THINK I MAY HAVE SEEN AN LEC, A COUPLE ELECTRICAL DRAWINGS THERE, SO THEY MIGHT BE ACTUALLY ON THERE.

UH, AND MAYBE THE APPLICANT WILL WANT TO, UH, EXPLAIN THAT TO US.

UH, AND THE NEXT ITEM IS SOME CHANGES TO THE PLANS TO BE ADDRESSED IS THE REMOVAL OF THE OPTIONAL FOUNDATION CONSTRUCTION.

THEY'VE DONE THAT, UH, UH, COMPLIANT DELINEATION OF FOUNDATION PEERS AND RECESSED INFILL SECTIONS.

SO THESE, UH, THESE, UH, ELEVATIONS DON'T SHOW THE, UM, THAT KIND OF, UH, THE RECESS PANELS AND THEY SHOULD PRO, THEY SHOULD BE CHANGED TO DO THAT, UH, COMPLIANT LOCATION OF FOUNDATION VENTS AND ACCESS DOORS.

SO THAT'S, THOSE ARE ALSO NOT SHOWN ON THESE ELEVATIONS EITHER, UH, TO INDICATE COMPLIANT FLOOR HEIGHT ON THE ELEVATIONS AND PLANS.

SO,

[01:45:01]

UM, THEY, WE DO HAVE A MAXIMUM HEIGHT.

UH, NO.

SO, UM, WE'RE ALL VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE, UH, LIMIT ON FLOOR HEIGHT WHEN A HOUSE IS BUILT IN A, IN A FLOOD, UM, IN THE FLOODPLAIN DISTRICT.

UH, HOWEVER, WE ALSO HAVE A LIMIT OF TWO FEET ABOVE THE CURRENT, UM, OR THE EXISTING, UH, HEIGHT, UH, FOR ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION.

UM, SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD NEED TO AT LEAST HAVE, UH, UH, DIMENSION ABOVE, I'M SORRY, IT'S NOT ABOVE THE NEW HEIGHT.

IT'S ABOVE THE EXISTING GRADE, I BELIEVE.

UH, AND THEN, UH, WE'LL NEED THAT INDICATED ON THERE.

UH, THREE MORE NOTE, PROVISION OF TRUE DIVIDED LIGHT MOUNTAINS OR THREE DIMENSIONAL GRILLS WITH SHADOW BARS.

SO I DID NOT SEE THOSE ON HERE, BUT THEY MAY BE ABLE TO POINT THAT OUT TO ME.

AND THEN STAIR RAILING SHALL BE SHOWN AND NOTED TO USE THE COMPLIANT DETAIL ON THE PLANS.

SO I DID NOT FIGURE THAT THEY WOULD BE BUILDING THIS WITHOUT, UH, HANDRAILS FOR THE STAIRS.

UM, BUT, UH, IF THAT IS INDEED THEIR INTENT, THEN THIS WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

BUT IF THEY ARE PUTTING THOSE IN, THEN WE DO NEED THAT.

AND THEN LASTLY, ADD A NOTE REGARDING OPA OPAQUE STAINING OR PRIMING AND PAINTING ALL EXTERIOR WOOD.

SO THOSE ARE THE 1, 2 6, UH, LITTLE, UM, MODIFICATIONS TO THE PLANTS.

DO THEY EVEN HAVE ANY EXTERIOR WOOD OTHER THAN THE COLLINS? MAYBE? UM, I DON'T KNOW.

UH, THE FLOORING, I'M ASSUMING ALL THE SIDING WOULD PAINTED.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PORCH FLOOR IS MADE OF.

UM, DOES IT SAY, LEMME ASK QUESTIONS.

YEAH, AS SOON AS HE'S DONE, I DON'T SEE IT ON THE ELEVATIONS.

SO, PLANS, UH, SECTION.

DIDN'T SEE IT THERE.

OH.

DOES NOT SHOW IT ON THE PLANS EITHER, SO WE DON'T KNOW.

SO IS THE CONTRACTOR HERE THAT COULD ADDRESS THAT? YES.

YOU AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF, PLEASE.

JONATHAN PROVOST, OPERATIONS MANAGER FOR DISASTER RECOVERY FOR THE NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

UH, THESE ARE A, UH, THESE ARE A STOCK SET OF PLANS, UM, THAT WE'RE, THAT WE'RE HOPING TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DETAILS WE NEED TO, UH, WE NEED TO DEFINE SO THAT WE'RE ABLE TO, UH, GIVE THIS SPARE A NEW HOME.

UH, THE, THE PORCHES THAT WE TYPICALLY DO, UH, ARE WE, WE, MOST OF THE REBUILD PROGRAM IS USING A PORCH SLAB FOR THE FRONT PORCH.

IF WE NEED TO MEET A DIFFERENT STANDARD HERE IN THE CANNOT DO A PORCH LAB.

YOU CAN DO A PORCH LAB, YOU CAN DO A PORCH LAB.

THAT'S, UM, THAT'S TYPICALLY THERE.

UM, MS. BARRETT IS ENGAGING TIGHT LINES, UM, TO PRODUCE, PRODUCE ANY OF THESE DETAILS, AND TO MODIFY THESE DRAWINGS FOR THE, FOR THE SPECIFICS FOR THIS SITE.

UM, SHE ACTUALLY SHARED AN EMAIL WITH ME, UH, DATED YESTERDAY, UM, FROM CRAIG BETHEL, WHO IS A PRINCIPAL AT TIGHT LINES DESIGN, UM, AND THAT THEY'RE READY TO, READY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, UH, WITH GETTING THESE DETAILS FOR YOU AND MEETING WITH YOU FOLKS, UM, SO THAT WE CAN GET ALL THIS SQUARED AWAY.

UM, HOPEFULLY IN TIME FOR, UM, DEFINITELY IN TIME FOR THE MAY MEETING.

BUT PRIOR TO THAT, IF WE CAN WINDOW DETAIL.

WHAT'S THE MATERIAL? THE, THE WINDOW DETAIL? UM, TYPICALLY, AGAIN, THE, THE REBUILD, THE REBUILD HOMES ARE USING, WE'RE A, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE, UH, LOW TO MODERATE INCOME PROGRAMS. SO, UH, WE ARE TYPICALLY USING VINYL.

UM, IF THERE'S A DIFFERENT REQUIREMENT HERE, UM, THAT'S IT.

BUT, UM, I, I NOTICED YOU WINDOWS, SOME OF THEM HAVE, UH, SIX SQUARES ABOVE AND SOME HAVE FOUR SQUARES.

LIKE, UM, ON THIS CURRENT ELEVATION, THE LOW WINDOW HAS FOUR, AND THE UPPER WINDOWS HAVE SIX PANES AT THE TOP.

UH, COULD THEY BE CONSISTENT? THEY, THEY'RE NOT MY WINDOWS, SO , BUT THE, UH, BUT YES, THE, UH, AGAIN, WE CAN, IF, IF WE NEED TO MAKE THOSE MATCH UP ON.

ARE THE OPTIONS THAT ARE, THAT ARE SHOWN ON THE PLANTS, UHHUH, .

SO SOME OF THESE OPTIONS THAT, THAT WE NOTED, LIKE THE, THE BACK DOORS, SOMEONE SAID THAT IT COULD BE, I THINK MATT MENTIONED THAT IT COULD BE A SINGLE DOOR OR A DOUBLE DOOR, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT ARE CONTAINED WITH WITHIN THAT.

UH, AT WHAT POINT DO YOU KIND OF SAY, OKAY, HERE'S THE OPTIONS WE'RE GOING WITH FOR THIS PROJECT.

UH, THESE

[01:50:01]

UM, SO IF IT'S A DOUBLE DOOR, ESSENTIALLY, IF, IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S AN OPTION A AND AN OPTION B THAT WORKS BETTER WITH, WITH THIS, WE'RE, WE'RE OPEN TO THEM.

UM, OTHER THAN THAT, UH, SO YOU'D LIKE DOUBLE DOORS ON THE BACK, WHICH, WHICH IS FINE.

THAT'S FAIR.

IF YOU LIKE DOUBLE DOORS ON THAT YEAH.

WE DO A LOT BETTER WHEN YOU SAY, THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO DO.

AS OPPOSED TO US TELLING YOU BETTER IF WE, WE REACT TO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

I, I UNDERSTAND.

IT'S, AND IT WILL NOT BE MY OWN.

UM, THAT'S THE, UH, YOU KNOW, WITHIN, WITHIN THESE DESIGN GUIDELINES, WITHIN, WITHIN THIS SET OF PLANS, UH, SO THE FINAL, WE AS A PROGRAM ARE ABLE TO, I'M PRIMARILY THE FUNDING SIDE OF IT HERE.

UH, WE ARE ABLE TO FUND WITHIN THIS, WITHIN THIS, THE VINYL WINDOWS ARE FINE, THE CONCRETE SLAB WOULD BE FINE.

DO, DO YOU, DO YOU WANT THE, THE, THE 3D MU ON THE VINYL WINDOWS THOUGH? BUT THEY ARE THEY DOUBLE PANE WINDOWS? THEY'RE, UH, THEY'RE TYPICALLY A DOUBLE PANE.

AND AGAIN, TYPICALLY WHAT WE SEE IS A, IS A, UM, BUTTONS BETWEEN THE GLASS, UM, NOT A, NOT THE BUILT OUT FULL.

'CAUSE WE DO NEED A SHADOW, SHADOW BAR AND, AND EITHER TREE LIGHTS RIGHT.

IT ON, ON THE INTERIOR AND THE EXTERIOR.

YEP, SIR.

SO THAT'S THREE PIECES, THEN ONE ON THE EXTERIOR, ONE ON THE INTERIOR, AND THEN ONE IN BETWEEN.

TRIM.

WE MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE GOT THAT, THAT THAT'S WHAT IT SHOULD BE.

YEAH, I THINK THAT, DOES THAT COVER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS? UM, THE CURRENT WE HAVE, WELL, IF YOU, UH, IF YOU MAKE SURE YOU ADD WHATEVER'S, UM, BEEN AGREED TO HERE, PLUS MAYBE, UH, ANYTHING ELSE THAT'S IN THE STAFF REPORT, OR IF YOU END UP NEEDING A RAILING, JUST GET WITH MATT.

WELL, YEAH, SO, UM, YOU HAVE THE RAILING AND THEN THE, UH, LIGHT FIXTURES, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO NOTE WHERE THOSE ARE.

AND, AND WE'RE GONNA WANT, OR MATT'S GONNA WANNA TAKE A LOOK AT 'EM JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE I DID, I DID SEE THERE IS A SMALL LITTLE ELECTRICAL PLAN HERE.

UH, I BELIEVE THAT TYPICALLY WOULD BE, UH, THAT SHOWS SEE A COACH LIGHT AT EACH SHOWS EXTERIOR LIGHTS.

HERE WE GO.

ELECTRICAL PLANS ARE ON THE RIGHT.

AND SO DOWN ON THE BACK PORCH, THERE'S A LIGHT HERE ON THE, UH, SIDE OF THE DOOR, THERE'S ALSO, UH, A LIGHT, TWO LIGHT FIXTURES POINTING OUT INTO THE YARD.

THERE ON THE FRONT THERE'S, UH, TWO SCONCES, UH, ON THE FRONT PORCH.

SO, UM, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE, ONLY OTHER PIECE THAT WE NEED IS TO KNOW THAT THE, THAT THE LIGHT BULBS ARE WHITE, LIGHT BULBS ARE WHITE, WHITE .

AND ULTIMATELY, IF THERE'S A LANDSCAPING PLAN, GIVE THAT TO MATT.

RIGHT? SO IF LANDSCAPING, IF THERE IS ANY I DON'T UNDER YOUR PROGRAM, UM, THEN THERE THERE'S NOT TYPICALLY ANY, YEAH.

SO USUALLY THAT'S HANDLED BY THE OWNER AFTER THE FACT.

UM, AND THEN, UM, THE MECHANICAL, I DID SEE IT IS HERE SHOWN IN THE MIDDLE SET OF PLANS HERE IN THE BACK CORNER.

UM, WE DO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S SCREENED FROM VIEW.

THIS WOULD, YOU KNOW, BEING, UH, THAT THIS IS, ESPECIALLY WITHOUT LANDSCAPING, UH, SITTING IN FULL VIEW FROM THE SIDEWALK, UM, IT WILL NEED SOME KIND OF SCREENING, WHICH COULD INCLUDE LANDSCAPING.

UH, SO, UM, WE WILL NEED THAT ADDED AS WELL.

I, I HAVE A QUESTION.

I DON'T SEE A PARKING, UH, S SOLUTION.

IS THERE ANY DRIVEWAY OR PARKING? THERE IS, THERE'S CURRENTLY NO DRIVEWAY ON THE SITE.

AND THERE'S NO PLANS TO PUT ONE IN, THERE'S NO PLANS TO PUT ONE IN REBUILD WILL NOT BE PUT IN.

ACROSS.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, GABE? THANK YOU.

AND WITH, WITH THAT, IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO RECEIVED NOTICE WHO WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON THE NEW CONSTRUCTION? OH, I DO HAVE A QUESTION.

UM, I, I DIDN'T SEE IT AND, AND MAYBE, I'M SURE IT'S ON THERE.

WHAT'S THE ROOF MATERIAL? IS IT A SHINGLE? UH, SHINGLE.

OKAY, THANKS.

THE ONLY OTHER THING I WANTED TO ADD TO THE RECORD IS THAT THE, THE PROPERTY HAS BEEN COMBINED AND THE NEW DEED IS REGISTERED.

ALRIGHT, GREAT.

SO IS THERE ANYONE WHO DID NOT RECEIVE NOTICE BUT IS PARTICULARLY AFFECTED BY THIS DIFFERENT THAN OTHERS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT? SEEING NONE.

FOR EVALUATING REDEVELOPMENT PLAN ONLY IN TWO SENTENCES, WHICH IS TO SAY A REVIEW AND PRELIMINARY APPROVAL BY THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR AND A REASONABLE TIMEFRAME FOR COMPLETION OF REDEVELOPMENT.

UM, SO I GUESS WE CONTINUE WITH THE SAME PROCEDURE AS LAST TIME.

OOPS.

UM, SO, UM, WE HAVE THE POINTS OF HPC POLICY, UH,

[01:55:01]

SO THAT MIGHT BE, THAT'S THE ONE THING WE COULD ASK THEM IF THEY HAVE A TIMEFRAME IN MIND.

UH, AND I THINK THEY DO , SO IF WE COULD GET THEM TO TELL US WHAT THAT WOULD BE.

UM, I, I DIDN'T SEE IT IN THERE, MATT, BUT HAS THE BUILDING AND, UH, DEPARTMENT AND, UH, ZONING HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THIS YET? YES.

SO THAT WAS THE INITIAL, UH, PNC AT THE BEGINNING, UH, WAS, UH, ZONING PERMITS REQUIRED, AND THEN IT DID THEN FOR THE BUILDING INSPECTOR INCLUDED THAT A DEMOLITION PERMIT WOULD BE REQUIRED.

OH, YEAH, I DID REMEMBER THAT.

I SEE THAT.

AND THEN OF COURSE, A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THE, YEP.

SO, UM, SO WE HAVE ALL OF THE VARIOUS, UM, GUIDELINES LISTED HERE, UH, FOR YOUR REFERENCE AND USE, UH, AND THEN, UH, STATEMENTS OF FACT AS WELL.

AND THEN I HAVE HERE FOUR, UH, FOUR POTENTIAL CONDITIONS.

UM, SO THE FIRST ONE IS REGARDING THE SITE PLAN.

SO, UH, IF YOU FEEL LIKE THAT ONE THAT THEY PROVIDED IS SUFFICIENT, THEN UH, YOU CAN SKIP THAT CONDITION.

UH, AND THE SECOND ONE IS REGARDING THE HAVING A SITE PLAN FOR THE UTILITIES, WHICH, UH, YOU MAY ALSO BE ABLE TO ELIMINATE, UH, OR NOT.

UH, AND THEN THIRD IS, UH, AND THE F FOURTH ONE ARE THE SAME AS THE OTHER TWO APPLICATIONS WERE WITH REGARD TO, UM, CHANGES AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING AND CHANGES THAT WEREN'T AGREED UPON AT THE HEARING, BUT MAY BE, MAY COME UP, UH, DURING CONSTRUCTION.

AND THAT ENDS OUR, UH, OUR STAFF REPORT FOR THIS.

COMMISSIONERS, ANY COMMENTS? YEAH, ONE, ONE QUESTION THAT I GUESS I DID HAVE THAT WE MIGHT WANT TO CLARIFY IS, IS THE EXISTING FENCE STAYING? IS THAT A, IS I'M NOT, I DIDN'T HEAR YOU.

IS THE EXISTING FENCE REMAINING EXISTING FENCE OR IS THAT NOT MATTER? FENCE ON THE PROPERTY.

SO THEY HAVE NO PROPOSAL TO CHANGE THE FENCE.

ANYTHING ELSE GOING THROUGH THE GUIDELINES? IT'S CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, UM, INFILL CONSTRUCTION, FOUNDATION WALLS, TRIM LAMENTATION DOORS AND WINDOW OPENINGS.

I THINK WE'VE COVERED ALL THAT.

MATERIALS ARE CONTEMPORARY FOR THE MOST PART, ALMOST ALL, I THINK.

WILL BE NOTED ON THE PLANS AND SUBMITTED TO THE HPC STAFF FOR APPROVAL PRIOR TO CONSTRUCTION, AND THAT ANY CHANGES TO THE APPROVED DESIGN MATERIALS AND DETAILS DURING THE CONSTRUCTION SHALL BE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE HBC STAFF FOR APPROVAL ACCORDING TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS PRIOR TO THE CONSTRUCTION OR INSTALLATION OR PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE BUILDING INSPECTIONS OF VISION, WHICHEVER OCCURS FIRST.

AND SO WITH THAT, DO WE HAVE A MOTION? SURE.

UM, MR. CHAIR, I MOVE TO FIND THE, UH, PROJECT LOCATED AT SEVEN 10 NEW STREET TO BE NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE CITY OF NEW BERN.

CODE OF ORDINANCES, SECTIONS 15.411 THROUGH 15.429 AND NEW BERN'S, HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN.

PRINCIPLES OF STANDARDS BASED ON THE FOLLOWING STANDING STANDARDS AND FINDINGS OF FACT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN 2.1, 0.1 TO 2.1 0.3.

DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.11, 3.2, AND 3.1 0.4.

INFILL CONSTRUCTION, 3.4 0.134 AND 3.4 FOUNDATIONS, 4.4 0.3, FOUR POINT AND FOUR POINT WINDOWS, DOORS AND OPENINGS, FOUR POINT POINT AND FOUR.

THREE THREE ENTRANCES, 4.44 CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, 5.55, 5.3, 5.5 0.5, AND 5.56.

AND THE STATEMENT OF FACT, BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE APPLICATION AND THE TESTIMONY WE HEARD TONIGHT ARE THAT THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IS LOCATED WITHIN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.

THE PROJECT IS AN INFILL HOUSE.

THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISPARATE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAVE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND PROJECT AND HAVE COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.

AND THE APPLICATION IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE GUIDELINES WITH JUST A FEW CONDITIONS.

UM, I BELIEVE THE SITE PLAN IS OKAY SO THAT ANY CHANGES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT, UM, AT THIS MEETING AND WE'VE, UH, AGREED TO DO,

[02:00:01]

SO THAT MOTION IS MADE AND SECONDED.

ANY, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.

OPPOSED? AND NOW A MOTION TO ISSUE THE COA FOR DEMOLITION AND CONSTRUCTION OF THE INFILL PROJECT.

DO, DO YOU NEED TWO MOTIONS? ONE, ONE FOR EACH? WE DID ONE.

NO, NO.

WE CAN DO BOTH IN THE SINGLE.

SO MOVED.

SECOND, PLEASE.

MOTION CARRIES.

WE CAN START THE NEXT 50 YEARS NOW.

THANKS EVERYBODY.

THANK YOU FOR COMING.

YOU COMING BACK? OR I MIGHT COME BACK.

[4.E. 811 Pollock St. – to include the demolition of the historic 2-story house and redevelopment with a new 2-story infill house.]

ARE WE READY FOR EIGHT 12, EXCUSE ME.

EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET? YES.

EIGHT 11 P*****K.

ONE MEMBER IS GONNA BE GONE BRIEFLY, BUT WE CAN PROBABLY AT LEAST INTRODUCE THE TOPIC.

UH, UH, COLUMN THAT'S HERE.

SO, UH, THIS APPLICATION FOR EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET.

UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER IS, UH, JERRY TAYLOR, AND THE APPLICANT IS BAPTIST ON A MISSION WITH, UH, JAY BAUM AND OR MARK PICKETT, UH, TO REPRESENT.

AND, UH, HERE WE HAVE THE DESCRIPTIONS, SOME DISTRICT, SOME STANDARDS LISTED THE MATERIALS, UH, ALSO SOME OF THEM LISTED THERE.

AND THEN, UH, MR. PICKETT HAS SIGNED HERE AND IT IS WITH THIS DOCUMENT THAT HE IS AUTHORIZED TO DO.

SO MS. TAYLOR HAS SIGNED AND HAD HER SIGNATURE NOTARIZED AND DATED AND HER SIGNATURE AID.

UH, AND THIS IS THE ZONING AND INSPECTION REVIEW FOR THIS PROJECT.

UH, FOR BOTH PARTS.

AGAIN, WE HAVE A TWO PART, UH, PROJECT HERE.

UH, THE, THE ZONING PERMIT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR THE NEW CONSTRUCTION PART IF IT GETS THAT FAR.

AND THEN, UH, DEMOLITION PERMIT WOULD BE REQUIRED.

DEMOLITION IS APPROVED, AND THEN, UH, BUILDING PERMITS ARE REQUIRED.

WHEN THE, UH, BUILDING IS APPROVED, UH, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION'S APPROVED.

THIS IS THE AERIAL VIEW, UH, OF THE PROPERTY.

YOU CAN SEE IT'S, UH, UH, ONE OF MANY IN A ROW HERE, UM, ON SOME VERY NARROW, UH, LOTS.

UM, AND, UH, IT TURNS OUT MANY OF THEM ARE 1800, BUILT IN 18 HUNDREDS, ONE OF OUR OLDEST COLLECTION, UH, COLLECTION OF OLDEST HOMES IN THE CITY.

UH, AND SO THE AERIAL THEN A LITTLE BIT CLOSER IN TO GIVE YOU AN I A LITTLE BIT BETTER IDEA OF WHAT'S, UH, WHAT'S ON THE SITE ITSELF.

UM, PRIMARILY WE HAVE THE TWO STORY PORTION OF THE HOUSE.

THERE IS A TWO STORY ADDITION.

UM, THEY CAN BARELY MAKE IT OUT.

AND THEN, UH, TWO, ONE STORY ADDITIONS, THIS GRAY ONE, AND THERE'S A WHITE ONE HERE OFF TO THE RIGHT.

UH, THE ONE STORY PORT SHOWS ON THE, UH, NORTHERN SIDE OF THE STRUCTURE.

SO I'M SORRY, THIS IS ACTUALLY THE CLOSEUP VIEW.

AND THEN THIS HAPPENS TO BE A, AND AGAIN, WE'VE SEEN ALMOST ALL OF THESE IMAGES AT THE DESIGN REVIEW MEETING.

THAT WAS THE ASSESSOR'S SKETCH OF THE, OF THE, UH, BUILDING, GIVING US DIMENSIONS, CONFIGURATIONS.

THESE ARE, UM, STREET VIEW IMAGES, UH, FROM 2019, I BELIEVE.

AND YOU CAN SEE, UH, THAT THE NEIGHBORING STRUCTURES ARE ALSO, YOU KNOW, STILL QUITE CLOSE.

UH, AND THE ONE IS THE SMALL LITTLE CHAPEL, THE ALL SAINTS CHAPEL THERE ON P*****K STREET.

UM, THE HOUSE ITSELF YOU CAN SEE IS, UH, RELATIVELY LOW TO THE GROUND AS EVIDENCED BY THE PORCH BEING VERY LOW HERE.

UH, THE ONE STORY PORCH WITH THREE COLUMNS, UH, AND THEN, UH, THE GABLE ROOF WITH A, WITH THE ONE TWO STORY ADDITION ON THE BACK.

AND THEN THE ONE STORY

[02:05:01]

ADDITION BEHIND THAT.

UM, THE, UH, YOU WANT TO NOTE THE, UH, FENESTRATION, WHICH IS THE WINDOW PATTERN HERE, UM, FOR FUTURE AS WE GET FARTHER ALONG ON THIS.

SORRY.

AND THEN THIS IS A PHOTO TAKEN, UH, IN SEPTEMBER, 2025, UH, THAT, THAT PUSH, THE PUSH HAS GONE UP FRONT.

SO YOU CAN NOW SEE THIS, UH, UH, THE MECHANICAL UNIT ON THE SIDE HERE.

IT'LL BE SOMETHING TO, TO NOTE, BUT ALSO TO NOTE HERE IS, UH, THE WINDOWS.

THIS IS AFTER, UH, THEY BEGAN ONE OF THE, UM, REHAB PROJECTS FOR THIS, FOR THIS, UH, BUILDING.

UH, AND THEY HAD PAINTED ALL THE WINDOWS, UH, AND THEN DID NOT GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY COULD SCRAPE THE GLASS CLEAN.

UH, BUT WHAT IT DOES IS IT HIGHLIGHTS THE KIND OF THE, THE WINDOW PATTERN.

HERE.

WE HAVE THESE, UM, TWO OVER TWO WINDOWS, UM, THAT ARE WITH HORIZONTAL S WHICH IS A KIND OF 20TH CENTURY, UH, EARLY 20TH CENTURY PATTERN.

WHEREAS THESE ON THE SIDE, THIS ONE HERE, ESPECIALLY ON THE SIDE, IS A SIX OVER SIX.

AND THIS IS, YOU'LL HEAR REFERRED TO AS PROBABLY, UH, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE ORIGINAL, UH, WINDOWS, UH, FROM THE EARLY 18 HUNDREDS FOR THIS HOUSE.

AND THERE'S ANOTHER SIX, OVER SIX, UH, SASH AT THE ATTIC WITH THE BOTTOM SASH, I THINK MISSING, AND A COUPLE OTHERS ON THE SIDE.

UH, SO THIS WAS THE, UM, THE SHIP, THE SHIPPO FILE THAT WE SAW THE LAST TIME AND HAS DEEDS AND PHOTOGRAPHS AND OTHER INFORMATION THERE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

AND THEN, UH, WE WENT THROUGH THE, UH, SANBORN MAPS, WHICH SHOWED, UM, STARTING BACK IN 1898, UM, THAT IT WAS THERE THEN, UH, UH, AND, UH, HOW IT WAS SITUATED, TWO STORIES, AND IT HAD A FULL WIDTH FRONT PORCH OF UNKNOWN HEIGHT, WHEREAS THEN A FEW YEARS LATER, WHOOPS.

UM, IT HAD A TWO STORY FRONT PORCH.

THAT'S WHAT THIS NUMBER TWO REPRESENTS IS NUMBER STORIES.

UM, AND THE HOUSE WAS TWO STORIES.

THEN IN 1908, STILL TWO STORY PORCH, UH, A DIFFERENT ROOFING MATERIAL.

THE X MEANS, UM, UH, LIKE A SHINGLE ROOF.

AND THE, UH, THE DOT MEANS A, UH, METAL OR SLEE ROOF, PROBABLY METAL.

THIS ALSO SHOWS THERE WAS, UH, SOME KIND OF A ONE STORY ADDITION THAT WAS MORE LIKE A, A PORCH OR PATIO COVERED PATIO, UM, OFF TO THE SIDE, UM, WHICH IS LATER NOT, IT ALSO LOOKS LIKE IT'S ON THE SAME PARCEL AS THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH CHAPEL THERE THAT WAS IN, AND THEN 1913, THAT'S STILL THERE, THE SAME.

AND, UH, ALSO STILL ON THAT SAME PROPERTY.

WHOA, THIS IS NOW 1924.

UM, LOOKS LIKE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN THAT NEW TWO STORY EDITION AND THE ONE STORY EDITION BEEN ADDED.

AND THE, UH, FRONT PORCH IS NOT DELIN.

NONE OF THE PORCHES ON HERE SHOW ANY IDEA AS TO HOW MANY STORIES THERE ARE.

UH, EVEN THE CHAPEL HAS HAD AN EDITION.

AND THEN BY 1958, OR ACTUALLY 1931, UH, WHICH IS THE UNDERLYING LAYER HERE, IT WAS A ONE STORY PORCH, AND THOSE TWO ADDITIONS ARE STILL THERE.

AND ALL THE WAY THROUGH 1958 THAT, UH, THIRD OR LASTED REAR EDITION HAD NOT YET BEEN ADDED.

UM, WE WENT THROUGH THE PREVIOUS, UM, PROJECT, UH, FOR REHAB AND THE FLOOR PLANS THAT, UH, THEY PROVIDED.

UH, WE ALSO LOOKED AT ALL THESE PHOTOGRAPHS BY THE APPLICANT, UH, FROM LAST MONTH.

SO PRETTY MUCH THE SAME, UH, FROM THE FRONT, ALMOST ALL OF THESE, YOU CAN SEE THE ROOF A LITTLE BIT THERE.

THEY HAD A, I THINK A DRONE THAT WENT UP A LITTLE BIT TO GET SOME OF THE ROOFING.

UH, THIS WAS, UH, ONE OF THE FIRST, UH, FEATURES OF CONCERN IS THIS, UH, UH, LEFT POST IS FALLING OUT OR SHIFTING OUT AT THE TOP.

UH, AND BECAUSE THIS, THIS BEAM SHOULD BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT, NOT OFF TO THE BACK, AND YOU CAN SEE IT IS TIPPING COMPARED TO THE OTHER,

[02:10:01]

SO YOU CAN ALSO SEE THAT AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT POST.

UM, IT'S SEPARATING FROM THE PORCH FLOOR AND THE PORCH STRUCTURE.

UH, AND THIS IS THAT, THAT CORNER THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

THEN THE, UH, CHIMNEY ALSO SHOWS SOME SEPARATION FROM THE HOUSE, UH, IN THE, AT THE TOP SUGGESTING POSSIBLE, UH, LEANING.

UH, AND HERE WE HAVE, UM, A PIER THAT'S NOT EXACTLY VERTICAL OR MAYBE, OR MAYBE THE INFILL ISN'T VERTICAL.

UM, SOME DETERIORATION ON THE WINDOW SILL.

HERE WE HAVE.

OKAY, SO, UM, THERE'S JUST A COUPLE OF SIGNIFICANT THINGS HERE ON THE BACK I WANNA POINT OUT.

THEY'RE JUST LIKE, UM, THE PREVIOUS APPLICATION, UH, THIS WALL APPEARS TO BE BOWING OUT.

UM, HERE ON THIS PARTICULAR SIDE, THIS IS THE FIRST, THIS IS THE, UH, ONE STORY ADDITION ON THE REAR.

SO MORE MODERN OR EARLY 20TH CENTURY CONSTRUCTION.

THIS IS AN OVERVIEW OF THE REAR.

AND SO WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT THIS BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER HERE.

UM, AND THIS GIVES YOU THAT OVERALL, UH, VIEW OF THE CONFIGURATION WITH THE TWO STORY ADDITION ON THE ORIGINAL, UH, HISTORIC BUILDING IS THIS TWO STORY PART WITH THIS WINDOW.

UH, AND THEN THESE THREE PARTS WERE ADDED.

THIS TWO STORY ONE ALONG WITH THE ONE STORY AND THEN THIS ONE STORY ACT.

UH, AFTER 1958, HERE'S ANOTHER CASE WHERE THERE'S SOME BOWING OUT ON THIS WALL.

THERE'S A BETTER PHOTO OF THAT.

THIS ONE HERE SHOWS THAT BOEING HAPPENING, UH, ON THAT, UH, ONE STORY EDITION SECTION BACK THERE.

THIS IS ON THE, UH, WEST SIDE, LOOKING TO THE REAR YARD.

NOW THIS IS ON THE WEST SIDE, LOOKING TOWARDS THE FRONT WHERE THE, UH, WHERE THE MECHANICAL UNITS ARE OR IS, SORRY, ONE MECHANICAL UNIT.

AND SO ON THE FRONT SIDE OF THAT, YOU CAN SEE AGAIN THE, UH, SIDING IS BOWING OUT IN THIS LOCATION TOO.

UM, THERE ARE SOME PARTS, YOU KNOW, SOME, THIS IS TRIM, PIECE OF TRIM THAT'S MISSING, BUT IT'S EXPOSED, UH, THE WEATHER TO THE STRUCTURE BENEATH.

UH, THIS HAPPENS TO BE THE POCKET FOR WHERE THE, UH, LEAD WEIGHT WOULD BE THE COUNTERWEIGHT FOR THE, FOR THE WINDOW SATCH.

UM, WE'LL GO THROUGH SOME OF THESE LESS, UH, LESS THORACIC PHOTOGRAPHS AT THE MOMENT.

UM, 'CAUSE WE HAVE, THERE'S ACTUALLY A SECOND ONE OF ALMOST ALL OF THESE THAT ACTUALLY HAVE THE, UH, LEVELS ON THEM.

SO THIS IS, UH, DETERIORATION, THE MOST SIGNIFICANT DETERIORATION IN THE HOUSE ON THE INSIDE, UM, WHERE, UH, A ROOF LEAK APPARENTLY HAS COME THROUGH AND, UH, DETERIORATED THE ENTIRE CEILING AND THESE TWO WALLS HERE.

AND THEN THAT'S THEN THAT SAME PLACE LOOKING DOWN TOWARDS THE FLOOR.

UH, THEN THIS IS ACTUALLY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT CORNER.

UM, SO THE BEHIND THIS WALL IS THAT SAME DETERIORATION WE SAW.

UM, THIS IS AN EXTERIOR WALL.

SO NOW THESE, UM, SHOW THE, UH, SLOPE OF THE FLOOR, UH, WITH SOME LEVELS PLACED ON TOP OF THIS.

AT THIS POINT, THIS IS, UH, LIKE A FIVE OR SIX FOOT, UM, LEVEL WITH AT LEAST TWO INCHES OF SLOPE OVER THAT DISTANCE.

THIS IS THAT SAME ALSO FIVE OR SIX FOOT.

UH, SO WE HAVE ABOUT TWO AND A HALF TO TWO AND THREE QUARTER INCHES OVER THAT DISTANCE.

ON THAT ONE, AT THAT LOCATION HERE, IT'S ABOUT TWO AND A HALF INCHES.

AND THAT'S NOT EVEN THE FULL LENGTH OF THIS, UH, LEVEL HERE.

UH, THE LEVEL IS PUT ACROSS THE BATHROOM AND YOU CAN SEE IT'S SEVERAL INCHES THERE AT THE BATHTUB.

THEY DON'T HAVE A MEASURING, THEY DON'T HAVE A MEASUREMENT, BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE, UM, I BELIEVE THIS WAS TO SHOW THAT THE, UH, SIX INCH OF, UH, BASEBOARD IS NOW ONLY THREE INCHES BECAUSE THEY HAVE PLACED

[02:15:01]

SEVERAL OTHER LAYERS OF FLOORING ON TOP OF THE, UM, SLOPING FLOORING IN ORDER TO BEGIN TO LEVEL IT OUT.

AND HERE IT'S FOUR AND A HALF INSTEAD OF SIX.

THIS STEPS, UM, THIS WHATEVER, THREE QUARTERS OF AN INCH JUST OVER THE WIDTH OF THE STEP TWO FEET OR SO.

NOW WE'LL GO UNDER THE FLOOR.

UM, WE SEE HERE THIS, UH, STRUCTURAL MEMBER IS BEING CRUSHED, UM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S BEING SUPPORTED BY, AS IT'S BEING SUPPORTED BY THIS, UH, SCREW JACK TO HELP SUPPORT SUPPLEMENT THE STRUCTURAL SUPPORT.

THIS TELLS THE STORY OF HOW, UM, THE ORIGINAL FLOOR IS THESE TWO LAYERS HERE.

AND THEN IN ORDER TO RESOLVE SOME OF THE SLOPING, THEY BUILT A SECOND FLOOR ON TOP OF THAT.

AND THEN THAT ALSO WAS, UM, SLOPE.

IT EVENTUALLY ENDED UP SLOPING AND THEY HAVE A THIRD FLOOR ON TOP OF THAT.

UM, HERE'S A STRUCTURAL MEMBER THAT SIMPLY BROKE OFF.

YOU CAN SEE IT'S NOW DANGLING THERE UNDERNEATH THE PIECE THAT'S STUCK UNDERNEATH THE, IN BETWEEN THOSE TWO MEMBERS.

UM, THIS APPEARS TO BE A SITUATION WHERE THE FLOOR WAS, THEY TRIED TO, UM, RE, UH, LEVEL THE FLOOR BY JACKING IT UP AND STICKING, UM, A, UH, SUPPORT MEMBER UNDERNEATH THERE WITH THIS LIKE TONGUE, UM, TONGUE JOINT ON THERE, OVERLAP JOINT TO PROVIDE THE EXTRA SPACE.

UM, THIS SHOWS APPEAR THAT WHERE THE, UM, THE MORTAR IS ALMOST ALL UM, GONE, COULD HAVE BEEN DUE TO, UH, UH, A LOT OF AMOUNT OF WATER THAT WOULD'VE WASHED THAT AWAY.

SO A LEAK THERE.

UM, ON THIS ONE I'M NOT SO SURE WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT OR WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SHOW US THERE, OTHER THAN POSSIBLY THIS HOLE TO THE OUTSIDE HERE.

UM, THEY'RE DEMONSTRATING THAT THE SECOND FLOOR IS ALSO SLOPED BECAUSE THIS IS THE CEILING AT THE FIRST FLOOR AND, UM, IT IS, THE CEILING IS NOT LEVEL.

UM, THIS IMAGE AGAIN UNDERNEATH SHOWS THE CONDITION OF THE PIER HERE AND SOME OF THE LOT OF THE, UM, THE, UH, MOISTURE THAT SEEMS TO HAVE PENETRATED THROUGH IN THIS AREA.

UM, ALSO THERE'S A, A STRUCTURAL PIECE HERE THAT SEEMS TO BE AT A STRANGE ANGLE.

UM, THIS IS A STRUCTURAL MEMBER WITH A CRACK IN IT GOING THROUGH HERE.

IT'S A FLOOR JOIST FOR THE SECOND FLOOR, AND THERE IS A CLOSEUP OF THAT.

UH, THIS IS LOOKING DOWN A WALL, A WALL TOWARDS THE FLOOR BETWEEN THE STUDS.

THIS IS THAT AREA THAT WAS, UH, VERY HEAVILY, UH, DETERIORATED IN THAT ONE CORNER.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE, WHERE THAT IS OR WHAT THAT IS.

SO THIS IS A LOCATION ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING WHERE THEY BELIEVE THIS IS WHAT CAUSED ALL THAT DAMAGE IN THAT.

UH, YOU REMEMBER I MENTIONED THAT THIS WAS THE TWO STORY EDITION ON THE RIGHT AND THEN THERE WAS A ONE STORY ADDITION NEXT TO IT.

AND THEN SOMETIME AFTER 1958, THIS, UH, LAST EDITION WAS ADDED ON THE BACK, BUT THE LAST EDITION, UH, WAS BUILT HIGHER ALONG THIS EDGE, THEN THE LOWEST EDGE OF THIS ROOF.

SO, UM, RAIN OR WATER RUNNING DOWN THE ROOF, UH, RAN INTO THE SIDE OF THIS ROOF.

AND SO THEY TRIED TO PATCH THAT WITH TAR, BUT THAT IS WHERE ALL THAT WATER SEEMS TO HAVE ACCUMULATED AND THEN GONE INSIDE THE WALL RATHER THAN RUNNING OFF.

ALRIGHT, SO NOW THIS IS, UH, UH, TO DEMONSTRATE HOW THE CHIMNEY IN FOR THE LIVING ROOM IS LEANING, UH, THAT MUCH IN SIX FEET.

SO THAT'S A COUPLE INCHES MAYBE,

[02:20:02]

AND THEN SOME MORE DETERIORATION ON THE FOUNDATION.

THIS IS, UH, THAT, UH, TIPPING, UH, OR LEANING PIER THAT WE SAW EARLIER ACTUALLY.

OH, AND I'M SORRY.

AT THE DESIGN REVIEW, THE, UH, APPLICANT INDICATED THE STAKE HERE WAS TO SHOW, UH, THAT THE FOUNDATION FOR THIS PIER IS THAT, IS THAT WHY THE STAKE IS PASSING PAST THE FOUND THE FOUNDATION, THE FOOTER, SORRY, THE FOOTING FOR THIS, UH, PIER.

SO IT'S ONLY AN INCH OR TWO WIDE WHEN IT SHOULD BE, UH, A FOOT OR TWO POSSIBLY.

AND THIS COULD EXPLAIN SOME OF THE ISSUES AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT IS.

UM, SO WE ALSO HA UH, RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE, UH, BUILDING INSPECTOR AND HE HAD THESE, UM, BULLET POINT ITEMS AND WE CAN HAVE HIM COME UP AND TALK ABOUT THIS THEN TOO.

UH, HE MENTIONED SIGNIFICANT MOISTURE DAMAGE AND WOOD DECAY ARE VISIBLE THROUGHOUT, INCLUDING FLOOR JOISTS, GIRDERS, STUDS, AND OTHER FRAMING MEMBERS.

EXTERIOR WINDOWS AND CLADDING ARE DAMAGED OR MISSING IN PLACES, ALLOWING WATER INTRUSION, WHICH CAUSES ROTTING AND DETERIORATION IN THE WOOD AND FLOORS ARE SOFT AND SEVERELY OUT OF LEVEL IN SEVERAL LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT THE HOME.

SO, UH, IF YOU'D LIKE, WE CAN GO AHEAD AND TALK WITH HIM.

AND THEN AFTER THAT, IF MR. WALDEN, IF YOU'D COME BACK UP PLEASE.

AND YOU'VE ALREADY ESTABLISHED YOU'RE A BUILDING INSPECTOR THREE WITH 10 YEARS EXPERIENCE, SO WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING.

THAT'S CORRECT.

SO CAN YOU GO THROUGH THIS? SORRY, CAN YOU GO THROUGH THE SAME THING YOU DID WITH THE, WITH THE LAST RESIDENCE IS KIND OF SAY WHAT YOU SAW AND YEAH.

AND, UH, THIS ONE'S NOT NEARLY AS CUT AND DRY AS THE, AS THE FIRST CASE.

UM, THIS ONE STILL HAS THE MAJORITY OF THE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR CLADDING INTACT.

SO PLASTER OR DRYWALL, INSIDE FLOOR COVERINGS, UH, FLOOR SYSTEM IS STILL INTACT.

SO IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET A COMPLETE PICTURE OF THE EXTENT OF DAMAGE TO THIS ONE.

HOWEVER, UM, IN THE FIRST FLOOR, THERE'S A SECTION OF CEILING THAT'S BEEN REMOVED THAT SHOWS SOME OF THE FLOOR JOISTS BETWEEN THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR, UH, AS WELL AS THERE'S SECTIONS OF FLOOR, UH, THAT OPENS UP TO THE CRAWL SPACE, WHERE YOU CAN SEE BEAMS AND JOISTS IN THE CRAWL SPACE, AS WELL AS MAKING ACCESS THROUGH THE CRAWL DOOR.

UM, THERE'S SECTIONS OF WALL, I BELIEVE IN THE ADDITION THAT IS MISSING, WHERE YOU CAN SEE STUDS AND SOME OF THE WALL FRAMING, UM, THE SECTIONS THAT ARE OPEN AND VISIBLE.

UH, AGAIN, WATER DAMAGE DETERIORATION, UM, SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO, TO REPAIR.

NOT SAYING IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE EARLY, IN MY OPINION, TO BE ABLE TO TELL COMPLETELY.

UM, TRYING TO THINK WHAT ELSE.

IN, IN, IN YOUR INSPECTION DID YOU SEE, OR YOUR OBSERVATION, DID YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, UH, KIND OF THE, THAT ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, THAT 18 30, 18 40 STRUCTURE AND THE ADD-ONS THAT WERE PUT ON, UM, OVER THE LAST 50, 60 YEARS? YEAH, WALKING THROUGH THE HOUSE, YOU CAN TELL THAT THERE'S A, A DIFFERENTIATION WHEN YOU WALK THROUGH ONE STRUCTURE TO THE NEXT, UM, MATERIALS ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

UH, FLOOR HEIGHTS AND ELEVATIONS ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

YOU CAN TELL THERE'S SOME SAGGING AND STUFF GOING ON.

SO SOME OF YOUR OBSERVATIONS ABOUT THE WATER AND ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS ARE, ARE, IS THAT PRIMARILY THOSE ADD-ONS WHERE THAT BATHROOM AND, AND KITCHEN CORNER WAS, IT'S NOT LIMITED TO THOSE AREAS.

SO SOMETHING ELSE THAT I WANT TO POINT OUT, UM, IN ONE OF THE FIRST PICTURES IN HERE, YOU SAW WHERE SOME OF THE TRIM BESIDE A WINDOW WAS MISSING.

WHERE THE COUNTERWEIGHT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE INSTALLED.

UH, THAT'S A DIRECT OPENING INTO A WALL CAVITY, WHICH RUNS THE LENGTH OF THE HOUSE, ESSENTIALLY DOWN TO THE CRAWL SPACE.

SO THAT'S AN AREA FOR WATER TO INFILTRATE.

UM, ALSO UPSTAIRS IN A BEDROOM, THERE WAS A WINDOW WHERE THE LOWER SASH WAS COMPLETELY BROKEN AND MISSING.

IT WAS JUST GONE.

SO THAT'S A, A DIRECT PATH FOR WATER TO PENETRATE INTO THE HOUSE AND RUN ITS COURSE DOWN THE WALLS, THROUGH THE FLOOR SYSTEM, THAT TYPE OF STUFF.

SO IT'S, AGAIN, IT'S DIFFICULT TO HAVE A COMPLETE PICTURE BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY WALL COVERINGS AND EXTERIOR COVERING STILL IN PLACE.

UM, THROUGH MY EXPERIENCE AND THE KNOWLEDGE THAT I HAVE OF MY PAST, I WOULD, I WOULD ASSUME WOULD BE AN ASSUMPTION, BUT I WOULD ASSUME THAT YOU WOULD FIND SIMILAR DAMAGE IN THOSE AREAS ONCE WALL COVERINGS AND THINGS WERE REMOVED.

SO IN, IN THE, IN THE PHOTOS THAT WE SAW, UM, I DIDN'T SEE ANY INSECT TERMITE DAMAGE ON THOSE STRUCTURAL MEMBERS UNDERNEATH.

DID YOU, I, I KNOW THAT WASN'T COVERED MUCH.

WERE YOU, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANYTHING, UM, TERMITE RELATED OR WAS IT JUST REALLY MORE, UM, WATER, MORE MOISTURE, DAMAGE WATER AND MOISTURE DAMAGE IS WHAT I PRIMARILY WITNESSED.

JUST LOOKING AT THE PHOTOS AND, YOU KNOW, THE ONES THAT WERE THERE THAT YES, SIR.

UM, I DID NOT SEE SPECIFIC TERMITE DAMAGE, BUT THEN AGAIN, EVERY ASPECT OF THE HOUSE WAS NOT SEEN BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY COVERING STILL IN PLACE.

UNDERSTAND, I'M

[02:25:01]

YOU COULD SEE.

THANKS.

WOULD YOU SAY IT'S A HAZARD? DO PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE? PUBLIC HEALTH, I WOULD SAY THERE'S A, WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO USE THE M WORD, BUT THERE ARE SOME, UM, NOXIOUS ODORS AND CONTAMINANTS, I THINK IS WHAT THEY SAY WE SHOULD CALL THEM, UH, THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE.

SO, UM, JUST THE SMELLS AND THE NOISES THAT WERE IN THERE, IT'S NOT SO NOT A PLACE THAT I WANT TO SPEND ANY TIME.

UM, THE FLOOR SYSTEM IS VERY SOFT IN PLACES.

UM, I DO IMAGINE THAT, YOU KNOW, IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCE THAT COULD POSE A, A DA DANGER TO, TO HEALTH, HEALTH OR LIFE.

SO, ANY QUESTIONS, MR. WALKER? SO YOU, YOU SAID THE FLOOR SYSTEM WAS SOFT.

WAS THAT IN THE ADDITION? THE, THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, THERE WAS MULTIPLE AREAS.

SO ON THE, ON THE UPSTAIRS, I DID GO UPSTAIRS AND DOWNSTAIRS IN THIS HOUSE UPSTAIRS, UH, IN THE REAR, THE, THE FURTHEST REAR ADDITION, UM, THE FLOOR WAS SOFT IN THE PRIMARY, UH, LIVING ROOM AREA.

THE FLOOR WAS SOFT.

AND THERE WAS ONE GOOD PICTURE IN THERE THAT WHERE THE FLOOR SYSTEM HAS BEEN BUILT UP, UH, I THINK THREE DIFFERENT TIMES.

AND THAT'S, FROM MY EXPERIENCE, THAT'S A INDICATION OF SETTLEMENT OR A ROTTING FLOOR SYSTEM THAT IS COLLAPSING AND YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE TO ADD ONTO IT.

THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS OF FIXING THINGS.

YEAH, I THINK THAT WAS, I THINK THAT ONE WAS ACTUALLY IN THAT BACK ADDITION OR ONE OF THE ADDITIONS.

IT, IT MAY HAVE BEEN IN ONE OF THE ADDITIONS, BUT I KNOW, YES.

I THINK IN THE, ONE OF THE ADDITIONS IN THE REAR LEFT.

YEP, YEP.

ALL, ALL THREE OPENINGS WERE IN THE ADDITIONS.

SO ALL THREE OH, ON THE FLOOR? YEAH, ALL THREE FLOOR.

OH, YES.

I THOUGHT THE ONE WAS, OH YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT.

YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR HIM? NO.

CAN I MAKE A CORRECTION TO THAT STATEMENT? WELL, IF YOU'D WANT TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND WHO YOU REPRESENT.

MY NAME IS MARK PICKETT WITH BAPTIST ON MISSION.

I'M THE APPLICANT, UH, ON BEHALF OF MS. JERRY TAYLOR.

THE, THE AREAS THAT WE WERE REFERRING TO WITH THE BUILT UP, TWO OF THOSE AREAS ARE IN THE, THE PRIMARY FRONT STRUCTURE.

UH, THERE IS ONE THAT'S ON THE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALL AT THAT, THAT SECOND FLOOR BACK WALL, BUT THEY ARE IN THAT FRONT STRUCTURE.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE INSPECTOR? ALRIGHT, AGAIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

SO, SO MAY MAYBE WE HAVE A DIFFERENCE IN, IN DEFINING WHAT THAT FRONT STRUCTURE IS.

'CAUSE I THINK YOU SAID THAT ALL THREE HOLES THAT WE LOOKED AT WERE IN ADD-ONS.

SO I GUESS MAYBE IT DEPENDS WHAT YOU THINK IS AN ADD-ON OR HOW OLD IT HAS TO BE TO NOT BE AN ADD-ON.

UM, UH, LOOKING AT THE SANBORN MAPS, UH, THERE WAS NO INDICATION OF A, OF THE, UM, ONE STORY ADDITION, UH, OR THE, OR AN L SHAPE MAN, IF YOU COULD, TO THE PLAN.

DO YOU MIND GOING BACK JUST A LITTLE BIT? UH, THERE, SO UN UNTIL 1924, IT HAS IT, BUT NOT HERE.

SO THIS, THIS, UH, ONE STORY PIECE HERE.

SO UNLESS YOU'RE SURMISING THAT THE, UH, TWO STORY PIECE WAS A PORTION OF THE SECOND FLOOR WAS REMOVED IN ORDER TO CREATE THE ONE STORY ADDITION, UH, I'M FIGURING THE TWO STORY ADDITION WAS ADDED HERE WITH THE ONE STORY NEXT TO IT.

SO AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES, IT, IT MAY NOT REALLY ACTUALLY MATTER , BUT, UM, UH, I SUPPOSE UNLESS, UH, IT'S A STRUCTURAL, UNLESS SOMEHOW, UM, WE UNDERSTAND IT TO BE CAN YOU SCROLL BACK UP JUST A COUPLE PICTURES? WHICH ONE DO YOU WANT? THE REAR REAR ELEVATION OF THE HOME? DID I JUST PASS THAT? YES, I DID.

THERE, UH, GO DOWN WHERE IT SHOWS THE FULL, SO TO THE RIGHT SIDE, JUST BEHIND THE SATELLITE DISH, THAT SECTION OF SLOPED ROOF.

IF, IF I'M ACCURATE IN SAYING THIS, I BELIEVE THAT'S THE SECTION OF FLOOR SYSTEM THAT WAS OPEN.

SO, SO I DON'T KNOW.

SO WOULD YOU CALL THAT AN ADDITION OR MAIN STRUCTURE TO, TO ME, I WOULD CALL EVERYTHING FROM THAT WINDOW THERE GOING BACKWARDS TO BE ADDITIONS.

CORRECT.

NOT KNOWING THE

[02:30:01]

COMPLETE HISTORY.

I WOULD HAVE TO LEAN ON YOUR, YOUR EXPERTISE ON THAT.

SO MY, MY INTERPRETATION OF THE HOUSE, AND RICHARD YOU CAN PROBABLY HELP ON THIS, THAT YOU HELP WRITE THE SANDBAG BOOK, IS THAT THIS WAS PROBABLY ORIGINALLY A SIDE HALL HOUSE, ASSUMING THE DOOR IS IN THE, THE FRONT DOOR IS IN THE ORIGINAL POSITION, AND IT WAS TWO ROOMS OVER TWO ROOMS. TWO ROOMS DOWN TWO ROOMS. IS THAT YOUR INTERPRETATION? WELL, BACK TO THE PICTURE, MATT, STOP THROWING UP AND DOWN PLEASE.

, THAT PICTURE, THAT PICTURE THERE, UM, THE WINDOW IN THE TWO STORY PART IS IN MY OPINION, IS THE BACK WALL OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT SHOWS ON THE EARLY SANBORN MAPS AND THIS, EVERYTHING TOWARDS US FROM THAT WALL DOES NOT APPEAR UNTIL WHAT, 1924? THE SAME MAPS, RIGHT? YES.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION OF IT.

THAT EVERYTHING TOWARDS US FROM THAT TWO STORY WALL, UM, WAS ADDED IN THE 20TH CENTURY, RIGHT.

IN, IN CHUNKS.

PROBABLY DIFFERENT IN, IN CHUNKS.

AND IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOME OF THAT UNEVEN FLOOR WAS AT SOME POINT A PORCH AND WAS ENCLOSED AND THEN THEY HAD TO LEVEL UP A SLOPING FLOOR.

BUT I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

WELL, WHEN YOU GO, WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THE OPENING, UH, TO, THAT GOES TO THE KITCHEN, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE THEY BUILT UP THE FLOOR SEVERAL PLACES.

BUT IF YOU GO JUST TO THE LEFT, THERE IS, I THINK IT'S WAS A BATHROOM THERE AND THERE'S ABOUT A THREE INCH STEP DOWN, AND THERE'S THE STEP DOWN INTO THE KITCHEN AS WELL.

SO I THINK THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF BUILDING UP THAT FLOOR WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS A BACK PORCH THAT WAS THREE INCHES LOWER THAN THE PORCH, THAN THE FLOOR OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE IT APPEARS TO BE.

I, I THINK THE QUESTIONS, IS THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL? NO, WE LET HIM SIT DOWN.

I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A, UH, RICHARD, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD INTERPRETATION.

AND TIM, I, I, I WOULDN'T DISAGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK THAT'S A A A PRETTY FAIR.

BUT I THINK WE'RE OFF AGENDA HERE, AREN'T WE MR. CHAIRMAN ? YEP.

SO THEN IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO RECEIVED NOTICE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST THIS A THIS APPLICATION? RECEIVE NOTICE OF PEOPLE WITH, WITH A HUN WITHIN A HUNDRED FEET OF THE HOUSE AND IDENTIFY YOURSELF PLEASE.

UH, MY NAME.

HOLD THAT MICROPHONE DOWN.

I'M SHERRY, YOU GO.

HI, MY NAME IS JEREMY TAYLOR AND I OWN EIGHT 11 POLISH STREET.

IT WAS GIVEN TO ME BY MY GRANDMOTHER.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

HOW LONG HAVE, HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN THERE OR OWNED IT? OH, ABOUT 2000.

I'VE BEEN THERE PROBABLY FIVE FOR OVER 20 YEARS.

WHEN SHE GOT SICK? YEAH, I LOOKED ON THIS COUNTY SIDE, IT SAYS 2000 WITH YOUR NAME.

SO YEAH, I'VE BEEN IN THERE A LONG TIME SINCE PROBABLY I WAS 15 BACK AND FORTH.

A LOT OF UPSET THAT PROBABLY CONTRIBUTED TO THAT FERAL CATS BEYOND COUNT.

ANY, ANYONE WHO DID NOT RECEIVE NOTICE, BUT AS A COMMENT OR QUESTION, AND YOU'RE, YOU'RE AFFECTED UNIQUELY FROM OTHER PEOPLE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO YOU NAME AND ADDRESS.

UM, KATE PFEIFFER.

I LIVE AT 8 0 9 IN THE CHAPEL NEXT DOOR TO THE PROPERTY.

SO YOU RECEIVED NOTICE? HMM? YOU DID RECEIVE NOTICE? I DID RECEIVE NOTICE THE ONE WITH A NICE GARDEN, I'M SORRY, THE HOUSE WITH A NICE GARDEN.

UM, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND JUST HOW MANY FACTS YOU ALREADY HAVE.

AND IT PROBABLY COVERS PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE BUILDING, EXCEPT I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND AS A NEIGHBOR WHAT THE ANIMALS ARE DOING TO THE PROPERTY.

I'VE SEEN SQUIRRELS AND BIRDS GOING IN BROKEN WINDOWS.

I'VE SEEN A SNAKE AND POSSUMS, I'VE SEEN RATS.

AND THE RATS HAVE COME INTO MY HOUSE AND I'M STILL PAYING FOR, UM, AN EXTERMINATOR TO GET RID OF THE RATS.

AND THE EXTERMINATOR SAID THAT IT WAS PROBABLY COMING FROM EIGHT 11, ESPECIALLY DURING ONE OF THE TIMES WHEN THE, UM, FURNITURE WAS BEING REMOVED AND PILES OF MATERIAL IN THE BACK WERE MOVED.

[02:35:01]

UM, IT'S AFFECTING THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT'S AFFECTING THE VALUE OF MY PROPERTY.

MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THE CITY FOR OVER A YEAR AND NO, UM, REAL PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE UNTIL NOW.

UM, I CAN PROVIDE THOSE EMAILS IF IT WOULD HELP YOU AT ALL, BUT IT HAS BEEN A LONG TERM CONCERN.

HEARSAY NAME AND ADDRESS.

T CONGLETON.

I AM A RESIDENT OF 3 0 9 BURN STREET, BUT I ALSO OWN THE HALF THE PROPERTY ON P*****K STREET WHERE MY BROTHER LIVES, JOHN SMITH.

HE AND I ARE BOTH OWNERS AND, AND WHAT, WHAT IS THAT? P*****K STREET ADDRESS? UH, HIS ADDRESS AND MY, MY, I OWN HALF OF THE 8 0 3 P*****K STREET, TISDALE HOUSE.

OF COURSE, AM HERE TO SPEAK FOR THE RESTORATION OF THIS HOUSE, THE PRINCESS HOUSE.

THE HOUSE AT EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET IS KNOWN AS THE PRINCESS HOUSE CIRCA 18 30 18 40.

THE PRENTICE FAMILY WAS RELATED TO THE TISDALE FAMILY.

THE TISDALE HOUSE THAT I ALSO OWN.

THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS 20TH CENTURY ALTERATIONS TO THE HOUSE, THE PRINCE HOUSE, BUT THE TWO BAY WIDE BY TWO BAY DEEP FORM OF THE GABLE ROOF DWELLING IS NOT FOUND ON ANY OF NEER'S OTHER VERNACULAR HOMES OF THIS PERIOD.

OF COURSE, WE KNOW THAT THE CHIMNEYS ARE MODERN, BUT AS STATED ALREADY, THERE ARE SOME OF THE EARLY WINDOWS REMAINING BECAUSE THE HOUSE DOES HAVE A LISTING IN PETER BECK'S BOOK.

IT IS CERTAINLY WORTH PRESERVING AFTER ALL, NEWBURN IS NOTED FOR ITS PRESERVATION, NOT FOR ITS DEMOLITION, WHICH IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I MOVED HERE FROM LITTLE WASHINGTON, FROM THE 1795 MARSH HOUSE ON WATER STREET.

AND ANOTHER ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I INVESTED IN A HOUSE ON POLL STREET.

SO I ADVOCATE FOR RESTORING THE HOUSE.

THERE ARE VERY GOOD CONTRACTORS WHICH CAN BE FOUND AND IT CAN BE RESTORED.

AND AREN'T YOU ON THE HPC FOR LITTLE WASHINGTON, OR WEREN'T YOU? PARDON? WERE YOU PART OF THE LITTLE WASHINGTON HPC FOR A WHILE? NO.

OH, I THOUGHT SO.

ANYONE ELSE? OKAY.

MATT, DO YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH YOUR ALRIGHT, FINDINGS? YES.

AND I HAVE A PREFACE TO THIS ONE AS WELL TO THE STAFF ATTORNEY.

DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? YEAH, I JUST WAS GOING TO ASK IF YOU WERE GONNA GIVE THE APPLICANT A OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO ANY FINAL COMMENTS.

MS. TAYLOR OR YOUR REPRESENTATIVE EITHER.

IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO YEP.

DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS TO RESPOND? AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING.

UM, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT WE UNDERSTAND THE GRAVITY OF THE APPLICATION THAT'S BEFORE YOU TODAY.

I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE EARLIER.

WE DO NOT TAKE THE, UH, THIS LIGHTLY BY ANY MEANS.

UM, WE BRIEFLY TALKED, UH, AT, AT THE LAST MEETING ON, ON SOME OF THE HISTORY BEHIND THIS.

AND BECAUSE WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE SEVEN 10 NEW STREET PROJECT AND, AND

[02:40:01]

ARE TO SOME DEGREE, UH, PARTIALLY CONNECTED TO THAT, WE KNEW THE, THE HISTORY BEHIND THAT PROJECT, KNOWING THAT THE PROJECT FOR EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET IS A GRANT PROJECT, UH, WITH LIMITED TIME FOR THOSE FUNDS TO BE AVAILABLE.

WE KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THAT THE SEVEN 10 NEW STREET PROJECT WENT THROUGH, I THINK I HEARD THIS EVENING, SAY, WENT THROUGH THREE APPLICATIONS WITH YOU ALL BEFORE IT FOUND ITSELF IN THE CONDITION THAT IT'S IN.

WE ARE, WE ARE TRYING TO PREEMPT, UH, THAT EXTENDED PROCESS SO THAT WE CAN PROVIDE MS. TAYLOR WITH THE SOLUTION TO THE REPAIRS TO HER HOME.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ARE TO OUR BENEFIT, UH, THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE SEVEN 10 NEW STREET PROJECT IS THAT THE FUNDS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE AVAILABLE TO US DOES NOT BIND US TO USE THE REBUILD NC HOUSE PLANS, SO THAT WE DO NOT WANT TO PRESENT JUST A DEMOLITION AND NEW CONSTRUCTION INFILL, BUT INSTEAD WE WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT A DEMOLITION AND RECONSTRUCTION OF THE PRENTICE HOUSE.

THAT WILL, THAT WILL CREATE SOME ADDITIONAL WORK FOR US TO PROVIDE FOR YOU ALL FOR THAT AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

BUT KNOWING THE HISTORY WITH SOME OF THE HOUSES THAT WE'VE, THAT WE'VE DEALT WITH, WE'RE TRYING TO ASK YOU TO CONSIDER A SHORTER TIMELINE BECAUSE WE KNOW THE AVAILABLE FUNDS TO BE ABLE TO HELP MS. TAYLOR FIX THIS HOUSE ARE LIMITED, UH, AND ITS AVAILABILITY.

WITH THE COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS.

I THINK YOU READY FOR HIS REPORT, AREN'T YOU? NOT? OH, I'M SORRY.

EXAMPLE, UH, OR, UM, UH, AND, AND THAT KIND OF THING COULD BE ADDED AS A CONDITION TO, UH, UH, APPROVAL FOR A DEMOLITION.

SEEMS LIKE WE'VE HAD IT A LOT.

ALRIGHT, SO LEMME MOVE DOWN THERE.

UH, SO LIKE I SAID, I HAVE A PREFACE TO THIS FIRST, SO WE CAN SKIP A LOT OF THAT.

WHAT'S IN THERE? ALRIGHT, SO, UM, AS BEFORE, UH, FOR THE RECORD, STAFF HAS PREPARED A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS STAFF REPORT DATED APRIL 15TH, 2026, WHICH HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO THE APPLICANT, AND ITS INCLUDED IN THE EVIDENTIARY RECORD FOR TONIGHT'S HEARING.

AND I HAVE FOUR AREAS THAT I'D LIKE TO DISCUSS.

UM, THE FIRST ONE IS, UH, OH, THE FOUR AREAS ARE JUSTIFICATION FOR DEMOLITION.

SECOND IS RECOMMEND OR REQUIRE THE APPLICANT TO REMOVE THE VINYL SIDING AND OTHER MODERN MATERIALS BEFORE DEMOLITION TO UNCOVER USEFUL INFORMATION TO USE FOR THE REBUILD.

THIRD IS REDEVELOPMENT DESIGN, UH, WHICH WILL COME UP LATER.

AND FOURTH IS SOME CHANGES TO THE PLANS, UH, THAT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED ALSO LATER.

SO THE FIRST TWO APPLY TO THIS HALF.

SO THE FIRST ONE FOR JUSTIFICATION FOR DEMOLITION, I HAVE TWO POINTS UNDER THERE.

FIRST, THE HISTORY OF THE STRUCTURE, UM, AND JUST THE QUESTION THAT COMES UP IS, YOU KNOW, DOES THE HISTORY OF THE STRUCTURE AS THE 1830S AND 1840S HOME OF FRANCIS J PRENTICE, WHO WAS A NORTH CAROLINA LEGISLATOR AND COUNTY SHERIFF, OR ANY OF THE OTHER OCCUPANTS, UH, WARRANT SPECIAL EFFORT TO REHABILITATE THE HOME OR MAYBE TO REQUEST A MEMORIAL PLAQUE, SHOULD IT BE REMOVED? AND B UH, SECONDLY IS THE VIABILITY.

SO YOU REMEMBER IN OUR, UH, IN OUR GUIDELINES, WE HAVE THE WORD VIABLE.

UH, HAS THE PRESENTED INFORMATION BEEN CONVINCING AS TO THE UN VIABILITY OF THE STRUCTURE AS A HOME, OR THAT CANNOT BE REASONABLY BE REPAIRED AND REHABILITATED TO BECOME VIABLE? AND IF NOT, WHAT INFORMATION MIGHT BE MISSING OR NOT CONVINCING ENOUGH? SO THAT'S THE FIRST ONE ABOUT JUSTIFICATION FOR DEMOLITION.

AND THEN THE SECOND ONE WAS THE ISSUE ABOUT, UM, POTENTIALLY REMOVING VINYL SIDING AND OTHER MATERIALS SO THAT YOU COULD MAKE A, A, A BETTER DETERMINATION, UH, FOR, UH, HOW THE REBUILD WOULD BE DONE.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE MAY DISCOVER WHAT PART IS, UH, AN ADDITION AND WHAT IS NOT AN ADDITION, FOR

[02:45:01]

SO THAT'S THE PREFACE FOR THIS ONE.

SO I'LL GO AHEAD AND GO OVER THE, UH, STAFF REPORT HERE FOR EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET.

UH, AS MENTIONED, IT'S THE APPRENTICE HOUSE, UH, BUILT CIRCA 1830 TO 1840 AND REMODELED THEN CIRCA 1920 TO 1930.

UH, AND IT IS CONTRIBUTING.

AND, UM, UH, THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY DESCRIPTION IS FEDERAL STYLE, UM, STRUCTURE, UH, TWO STORIES, TWO BAYS WIDE, THREE BAY DEEP.

IT'S HAS A MODERN PORCH WITH ROCK BASED CONCRETE BLOCK POSTS AND EXTERIOR AND CHIMNEY AND GABLE LINE ROOF.

AND THEN, UM, I, I'M SORRY, I FORGOT THE NAME OF THE PERSON WHO SPOKE EARLIER.

DO YOU TAKE TON? OH, CONGLETON.

UH, AND THEN AS FAR AS THE DEEDS GO, IT POINTED TO THAT VERY THING THAT, UH, BECK MENTIONED ABOUT, UM, UH, PAT, UM, DEEDING THE PROPERTY OVER TO MR. FORBES.

SO, UM, SHE MENTIONED SOME OF THE THINGS FROM SAND BACK, AND I HAVE, UH, SOME HIGHLIGHTS AS WELL.

SO TO QUOTE, UH, AND SHE MENTIONED NUMEROUS 20TH CENTURY ALTERATIONS HAVE DRASTICALLY CHANGED THE APPEARANCE OF THIS SMALL, LATE FEDERAL PERIOD DWELLING, MAKING IT DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE ITS EXACT DATE OF CONSTRUCTION OR ITS ORIGINAL APPEARANCE.

UH, RESEARCH FINDINGS INDICATE THAT IT WAS PROBABLY BUILT PRIOR TO 1843 FOR JANE PRENTICE OR HER SON FRANCIS PRENTICE, WHO WAS FIRST A TAILOR IN 1843.

JANE PRENTICE DEED DEEDED THIS HOUSE AND LOT TO STEVEN B. FORBES TO BE HELD IN TRUST BY FORBES FOR THE CHILDREN OF FRANCIS PRENTICE.

IN THIS TRANSACTION, JANE PRENTICE RETAINED THE RIGHT TO OCCUPY THE HOUSE DURING HER LIFETIME AND TO USE THE FURNITURE THEN IN THE HOUSE, WHICH THEY DELINEATED, BUT WILL SKIP.

AND THE HOUSE REMAINED IN THE APPRENTICE FAMILY AS LATE AS 1860 AND WAS OWNED DURING THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY AS A RENTAL PROPERTY BY THE DIOCESE OF EAST CAROLINA, WHICH WHO WERE THE OWNERS OF THE CHAPEL.

THE TWO BAY WIDE BY TWO BAY DEEP FORM OF THIS GABLE ROOF DWELLING IS NOT FOUND ON ANY OF NEW BERN'S, OTHER VERNACULAR HOUSES OF THE PERIOD.

THE PRESENT CHIMNEYS ARE MODERN.

THE LOCATION AND CONFIGURATION OF THE ORIGINAL CHIMNEY ARE UNKNOWN, ALTHOUGH TIM DID TRY TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

UH, I DON'T KNOW IF HE DID.

ACCORDING TO THE SANBORN INSURANCE MAPS, THE HOUSE HAD A TWO STORY PORCH EXTENDING THE WIDTH OF THE FACADE UNTIL AS LATE AS 1913, POSSIBLY AN ORIGINAL FEATURE.

THIS DOUBLE PORCH HAD BEEN REMOVED BY 1931 AND REPLACED BY THE PRESENT ONE STORY FRONT PORCH WITH ITS RUST CONCRETE BLOCK POSTS.

SEVERAL OF THE SMALLER WINDOW OPENINGS STILL CONTAIN SIX OVER SIX SASH, WHICH APPEAR TO SURVIVE FROM THE EARLIEST PERIOD OF CONSTRUCTION.

UM, SO THEN IN, UH, FOR THE PROJECT ITSELF IS DESCRIBED TO INCLUDE THE DEMOLITION OF THE HISTORIC TWO-STORY HOUSE AND REDEVELOPMENT WITH A NEW TWO-STORY INFILL HOUSE.

SO TO START THE DELIBERATIONS ON DEMOLITION, UH, WE HAVE AGAIN, THE, UH, FOUR APPLICABLE, UM, GUIDELINES.

THERE WE HAVE OUR THREE CONSIDERATIONS, UH, WHICH WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH, UM, UH, IS THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

AND STAFF SAYS YES AS INDICATED IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER INFORMATION.

IS IT SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE OF ITS HISTORIC USE AND EVENT, A PERSON, A BUILDER, OR AN ARCHITECT? SO THIS, UH, IS A MAYBE, UH, NONE IS INDICATED IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER FORM, WHICH IS VERY BRIEF AND DOESN'T TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS.

HOWEVER, THE SAND BOOK, UH, SANDBORN, SORRY, SAND BECK BOOK SHOULDN'T BE SAND BECK BOOK.

UH, THE SHIPPO FILES, UH, THE COUNTY DEEDS AND CITY DIRECTORIES INDICATE, AND WE WENT OVER WHAT SANBORN SAID.

UH, THEN, UH, FOR SHIPPO, FRANCIS J PRENTICE TELLS US, AND SOME NEWSPAPER ARTICLES TELL US THAT HE WAS BORN ABOUT 1810 AND TAYLOR, HE RAN FOR SHERIFF IN 1840 AND WAS FIRST ELECTED TO THE LEGISLATURE IN 1844 TO 45.

AND THEN AFTERWARDS ELECTED SHERIFF CRAVEN COUNTY.

HE WAS AN UNCLE OF SOME, UH, OTHER PEOPLE IN TOWN THAT SOME OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT RECOGNIZE.

UH, BUT I DIDN'T.

UH, SO, UM, THIS IS FROM, UH, A TEXT BY WHITFORD AND, UH, SHIPPO'S, UM, INFORMATION ALSO HAD A REFERENCE TO, UH, SOMETHING BY MS. CARAWAY FOR YEARS CALLED YEARS OF LIGHT, AND INDICATING HE HAD BECOME A MEMBER OF ST.

JOHN'S MASONIC LODGE, WHICH GENERALLY INDICATES SOME KIND OF, UH, STATUS IN THE COMMUNITY.

[02:50:01]

AND THEN IN THE 1860 TAX LIST, IT INDICATED THAT JOHN OSGOOD AS THE AGENT FOR MRS. JANE PRENTICE.

UH, AND THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT WAS AFTER HER DEATH, BUT I'M NOT SURE.

THEN, UH, THE 1875 PLAN OF NEW BERN, UM, SHOWS THE LOT WHERE, UM, THIS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED QUARTER OF LOTS, 2 22 AND 2 23, UH, EXISTED.

SO THIS IS WHERE THE HOUSE IS TODAY.

AND THAT REFERENCE ALSO INCLUDED THE SAME QUARTER OF THIS NEXT ONE DOWN HERE.

UH, IT WAS WILLED TO MR. FORBES, UH, OH BY MR. FORBES, THEN TO THE EPISCOPAL DIOCESE OF EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA SOMETIME BEFORE 1952.

UM, THE TAX LISTS IN 1907, UH, SHOWED THE DIOCESE OWNED THE HOUSE.

SO THAT KIND OF, UH, THAT GIVES US SOME CORRELATION TO, UH, THE ADDITIONS AND THE, THE REMODEL.

AND SO THEY OWNED IT BEFORE THAT, UH, PROBABLY.

AND, UM, THEN THE NEXT, UH, OWNER WAS FRANK HACKNEY, UH, MANAGER OF MUL MOTHERS COAL AND FUEL COMPANY.

UH, THEN A HERBERT K AND BLANCHE IRELAND LIVED IN THE HOUSE.

THEN MINNIE LEE PAUL PURCHASED THE HOUSE FROM THE DIOCESE IN 52.

UH, MG AND FRANCIS PAUL, UH, AND LONNIE PRI JR.

AND SHIRLEY PRI LIVED IN THIS HOUSE, UH, CHARLES DEVAL, PAUL AND LEON, LEON PAUL, BETTY LEE, PAUL BRIDGE, EDNA EARL PAUL GOLDING, AND, AND HUSBAND, UH, STACY C GOLDING SOLD THE HOUSE.

SO THOSE ARE, UH, UH, APPARENTLY HEIRS SOLD THE HOUSE TO KATHLEEN BRANTLEY IN 1971.

KATHLEEN P AND CLAUDE, I BRANTLEY OWNED THE HOUSE FROM 71 TO 75.

BETTY B. ABBOTT ADAMS WAS THE OWNER AND OCCUPANT FROM 75 TO 2000.

AND THEN WE KNOW IS JERRY TAYLOR, UM, UH, TOOK OVER THE HOUSE IN THE YEAR 2000.

SO THAT'S THE, UH, THE PROVENANCE AS IT WERE OF THE, OF THE HOUSE QUITE LONG BECAUSE IT'S RATHER OLD.

ANYONE WANT TO ADD ANYTHING ELSE TO THAT? THAT'S, THAT'S THE STAFF'S INPUT ON THAT QUESTION.

COMMISSIONERS, ANYTHING TO ADD THERE? SIGNIFICANT OWNER.

WELL, I THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE WHOLE LONG WHARF NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE IMPORTANCE TO THIS HOUSE.

THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, NOT JUST TO NEWBURN.

CAN YOU SAY THAT AGAIN? THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, NOT JUST TO NEWBURN, BUT THE LONG WHARF AREA WHERE THIS HOUSE IS LOCATED.

LONG, LONG WHARF.

UH, IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THERE IS SOME, SOME CLAPBOARD SIDING ON THERE.

IS WHERE THIS HOUSE IS LOCATED, AND IT'S A, AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE WHOLE SERIES OF HOUSES IN THERE.

WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THAT LONGOW AREA AS KIND OF BEING P*****K STREET DOWN TO THE WATERFRONT? THAT'S CORRECT.

IT'S IN SAND.

DO YOU KNOW WHEN WAS THE CHURCH ACTIVE, ACTIVE, WHAT YEARS THE CHURCH WAS, UM, AFTER THE CIVIL WAR? ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, CONSIDERATION? ONE, YOU HAVE TO USE THAT IN YOUR OWN DELIBERATIONS.

UH, LASTER OLDEST EXAMPLE, THERE WAS A COMMENT IN SANDBANK ABOUT THAT, UM, INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE WE'VE HEARD FROM THE BUILDING INSPECTOR.

ANY COMMENTS FURTHER ON THAT? UM, YOU KNOW, GOING THROUGH THE HOUSE, UH, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT, LOOKING AT THE EXTERIOR, TALKING TO YOUR MICROPHONE, UH, LOOKING AT THE EXTERIOR, UH, AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, INTEGRITY, UH, WE DO HAVE SOME ORIGINAL WINDOWS.

UH, THE FOUNDATION ON THE PRIMARY PART, UH, APPEARS TO BE ORIGINAL MASONRY WORK AFTER 200 YEARS.

YES, THERE'S SOME, YOU'D EXPECT SOME ISSUES WITH THAT.

UH, I COULD NOT DETERMINE, UH, EXACTLY WHAT THE SIDING WAS UNDER THE VINYL SIDING.

[02:55:01]

JUST COULDN'T TELL THAT.

AS FAR AS YOU, AS FAR AS THE INTERIOR, WHICH REALLY, UH, ILLUSTRATES QUITE A FEW THINGS, UH, THERE ARE ORIGINAL CEILING BOARDS WITH, UH, WITH THE PRUSSIAN BLUE PAINT ON THEM.

UH, THE FIREPLACE MANTLE IS A FEDERAL MANTLE DOES APPEAR TO BE CERTAINLY, CERTAINLY A PERIOD FIREPLACE, UH, OR MANTLE.

UH, IT'S UNCLEAR WHETHER THE ORIGINAL FIREPLACE WAS, WHETHER IT WAS IN THAT LOCATION OR NOT.

THAT WOULD PROBABLY TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF PROBING TO SEE WHETHER THERE'S A FOOTING FOR THE FIREPLACE.

UH, I MENTIONED BEFORE THAT WHEN YOU STEP OUT OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE INTO THE BACK ADDITIONS, UH, I THINK THAT WHERE THE FLOOR HAS BEEN RAISED UP SEVERAL TIMES, I THINK THAT PROBABLY WAS A BACK PORCH.

IT LOOKED AT ONE TIME THAT WAS A BIT LOWER.

AND INTERESTINGLY, IF YOU GO THROUGH THE DOOR ON THE LEFT, I'M SORRY, ON THE RIGHT SIDE.

AND THEN THERE'S A LITTLE ROOM ON THE LEFT, WHICH I THINK WAS A BATHROOM.

UH, THAT'S THE PART THAT'S THREE INCHES LOWER.

BUT ALSO, UH, I NOTICED THAT THERE WAS THE REMNANTS OF A DOORFRAME IN THERE.

SO THIS THING HAS BEEN ALTERED MULTIPLE TIMES IN WAYS THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T, UH, DETERMINE YET.

UH, LET'S SEE.

THE STAIRS COULDN'T DETERMINE WHETHER THOSE WERE ORIGINAL OR NOT, BUT IT CERTAINLY FITS THE HOUSE.

UH, I FOUND IT INTERESTING THAT THE WINDOWS, WHAT APPEARED TO BE THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS CERTAINLY, UH, PROVIDES AN, UH, AN INDICATION OF THE AGE OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE NONE OF THOSE WINDOWS WERE WEIGHTED WINDOWS.

IT WAS VERY TYPICAL WHERE THE TOP SASH WAS FIXED, AND THE BOTTOM SASH WAS FUNCTIONAL, BUT NO INDICATION OF ANY WINDOW WEIGHTS.

UH, ALSO THE UPSTAIRS, THERE'S A LOW CEILING COMPARED TO THE DOWNSTAIRS, BUT IN A NUMBER OF THESE VERNACULAR HOUSES IN THAT SEEMED TO BE A VERY TYPICAL CONSTRUCTION STYLE, WHERE THE, THE UPSTAIRS, THE CEILING WAS SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN THE DOWNSTAIRS, UH, IN THE ATTIC.

UH, I COULD NOT SEE ANYTHING AS FAR AS STRUCTURAL DAMAGE IN THE ATTIC.

I DID NOTE THAT THERE ARE WOOD SHINGLES THAT ARE STILL IN PLACE UNDER THE STANDING SEA METAL ROOF.

UH, THE ROOF JOIST, AGAIN, TRYING TO GET THE AGE OF THE HOUSE, THE ROOF JOIST APPEARED TO BE CUT WITH A, UH, RADIAL SAW BLADE AS OPPOSED TO BEING PITS ON WHERE YOU'D SEE THE STRAIGHT STREETS ON, ON THE LUMBER.

SO THOSE WERE MY OBSERVATIONS.

AS FAR AS THE, THE STRUCTURAL PIECES ARE CONCERNED, UH, I DIDN'T SEE WHERE THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, UH, I DIDN'T SEE ANY SIGNIFICANT ISSUES.

OF COURSE, YOU CAN'T SEE EVERYTHING, BUT LIKE TO ME, I'M DELINEATING BETWEEN THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, WHICH IS THE FRONT STRUCTURE AND EVERYTHING IN THE BACK, I THINK WE'RE LEAST CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S IN THE BACK.

AND YES, THERE WERE SOME STRUCTURAL ISSUES, SOME SERIOUS ROT WITH THE ADDITIONS IN THE BACK.

I AGREE WITH WHAT TIM SAYS.

AND I WILL ALSO SAY THAT I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, BUT I'M UNIQUELY COMPETENT IN THIS GROUP TO APPLY WHAT I CALL FAT BOY ENGINEERING .

AND I THINK YOU'VE ALL, IF YOU'VE BEEN AROUND EARLY HOUSES AT ALL, YOU GO IN SOME OF 'EM AND THE FLOOR BOUNCES AND THE CHINA RATHERS AND THE CHINA CUPBOARD, AND YOU JUST KNOW THAT IT'S NOT A REAL STOUT HOUSE.

BUT WHEN I WENT INTO THIS HOUSE, EVEN THOUGH THE FLOORS ARE SLANTED, UM, I DIDN'T FIND ANYTHING SPONGY IN THE PRIMARY PART OF THE HOUSE.

THE WHOLE THING SEEMS SOLID OF THE ROCK.

IT DOES NEED TO BE JACKED UP AND LEVELED, BUT I THINK THAT THE HOUSE WILL EASILY STAND THAT.

AND FOR, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH AS FAR AS THE LEVEL IS CONCERNED, I LIVED IN A HOUSE IN RIVERSIDE THAT WAS BUILT IN 1906 AND THE KITCHEN WAS IN THE BACK.

I COULD TAKE A PING PONG BALL AND UH, DROP IT ON THE FLOOR AT THE ENTRY OF THE KITCHEN AND THE BALL WOULD ROLL TO THE BACK.

THERE WAS A FOUR INCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE, THE FRONT AND THE BACK.

THE CAT LOVED TO CHASE THE PING PONG BALL .

SO FINDING LEVEL, FINDING ANYTHING THAT'S STRAIGHT LEVEL OR EVEN IN THESE OLDER HOUSES, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A CHALLENGE.

COMMENTS HERE? NO, I THINK, I THINK TIM'S OBSERVATIONS,

[03:00:01]

UM, KIND OF MIRROR WHAT A LOT OF US SAW DURING THE SITE VISIT.

AND I THINK RICHARD'S, UM, OBSERVATIONS ARE, UM, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE FAT BOY ENGINEERING, BUT I, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT WITH, WITH THE TESTING THE S SPONGINESS OF THE FLOORS.

YEAH, I GOTTA CONCUR ABOUT HOW GOOD THE BOARDS LOOKED UNDERNEATH THE METAL ROOF.

WAS, WAS SURPRISING HOW GOOD THOSE INTERIOR BOARDS LOOKED.

QUESTION I DO HAVE IS YES, THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, HOW MUCH REHABILITATION CAN YOU DO WHEN YOU'VE GOT THE BACK HALF OF THE HOUSE? I MEAN, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE SUGGESTION THERE? WELL, MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE OUT THAT IF A PLAN IS BROUGHT TO US THAT PRESERVES THE FRONT PART OF THE HOUSE AND DEMOLISHES ALL OF THE BACK AND THEN BUILDS A NEW ADDITION BACK THERE TO ACCOMMODATE MODERN FACILITIES, THAT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

I AGREE.

OR THIS OLD HOUSE TYPE PROJECT.

AND I, MY OWN FEELING, AND I, AS I SAID, I'VE BEEN FOOLING AROUND WITH OLD HOUSES FOR 45 YEARS, AND I THINK IT WILL BE A WHOLE LOT CHEAPER TO DO THAT THAN TO TEAR THIS HOUSE DOWN AND START OVER IT.

THAT'S CONSIDERATION TWO CONSIDERATION, THREE PRESERVATION EFFORTS.

SO, UH, MATT, DO YOU WANT TO COVER WHAT'S BEEN DONE? SURE.

SO, UM, HAVE OPTIONS FOR REHABILITATION AND EXPLORER WITH PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS? WELL, AGAIN, UH, NOT WITH PRESERVATION ORGANIZATIONS, BUT THE, UH, APPLICANT, UH, OR THE HOMEOWNER.

AND THROUGH, AT THAT TIME, IT WAS A, UH, REBUILD NC PROP PROP, UM, PROJECT.

UH, SO YES, THE REHABILITATION WAS UNDERWAY WHEN THE CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURE WAS DETERMINED BY THE APPLICANT TO BE BEYOND REASONABLE TO CONTINUE.

AND THAT'S HOW, UM, THE, THE, UM, AT THE TIME REBELL NC WAS REEVALUATING ALL THE PROJECTS AND THEY DECIDED TO ACTUALLY DROP THIS FROM THEIR REHAB, UH, PROGRAM.

SO, AND THAT'S HOW THEN, UH, BAPTIST ON MISSION ENDED UP, UM, UM, BEING BROUGHT INTO THE PROJECT.

UM, SECOND THING, UH, HAS THE APPLICANT BEEN UNSUCCESSFUL IN SEEKING ALTERNATIVES TO DEMOLITION? I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THOSE EFFORTS, AND THE SAME WITH, UH, STRUCTURAL RELOCATION OR SALE OF THE PROPERTY.

SO, UH, IF ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO CHIME IN ON ANY OF THOSE, ANY COMMENTS? WELL, I HAVE SEVERAL THINGS I'D LIKE TO SAY.

UM, IT IS A WONDERFUL HOUSE THAT SHOULD BE PRESERVED AND IT SHOULD NOT BE MOVED.

BUT ONE OF THE TOOLS IN OUR TOOL CHEST HERE IS DELAYING DEMOLITION UNTIL SOMEBODY CAN BE FOUND TO PRESERVE IT, UH, ON SITE OR TO MOVE IT AND PRESERVE IT.

SO I THINK DEFINITELY, UM, THAT IS ONE OF THE TOOLS IN OUR TOOL CHEST.

I WILL HAVE TO SAY THAT WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO MS. TAYLOR AND TO MS. PFEIFFER, UM, WE DON'T CONSIDER THE, THE NECESSARY, UH, THE APPLICANT'S PLANS DO NOT, THEIR TIMELINES DO NOT GOVERN WHAT WE DO, IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.

AND AS, AS DOES NOT THE ULTIMATE INFILL PROJECT.

SO, UM, SHIPPO DID I UNDERSTAND, COME AND CONDUCT A SITE VISIT AND AUTHORED A LETTER, UM, OPINING ABOUT MANY, MANY THINGS THAT WERE NOT RESPONSIVE TO THE INQUIRIES THAT ARE ARE, THAT ARE SET OUT IN YOUR GUIDELINES AND USE A PROCEDURE.

AND I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE THIS HOUSE FIXED UP AND HEALTHY AND HAPPY AND PEOPLE LIVING IN THE GAME AS SOON AS POSSIBLE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

I UNDERSTAND MS. ER'S POSITION, AND I APPRECIATE MS. CONGLETON'S COMMENTS ALSO, AND I HOPE MS. TAYLOR, I HOPE THAT WE CAN COME TO SOME AGREEMENT HERE THAT WILL GET YOU IN A HOUSE SOON AS WELL.

DO I CONTINUE ON WITH? SURE.

SO NOW WE HAVE OUR, UH, POLICIES AND RULES PROCEDURE, UH, STEPS TO GO THROUGH.

UM, A, UM, IT'S CONTRIBUTING, IT IS NOT OF STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE AND, UM, UH, SHIPPO HAS NOT, UH, EVALUATED THE STRUCTURE, UM, ON THE ARCHITECTURAL HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STRUCTURE.

UM, SO WHAT, WHAT ABOUT THAT LETTER FROM SHIPPO? SO YES, SO CANNOT, WE DIDN'T PROVIDE A LETTER, BUT IT WASN'T, IT WASN'T THIS, AND, UH, THEY DO NOT, AND PERHAPS I CAN HELP MR. SHELEY.

[03:05:01]

UM, SHIPPO WAS NOT AVAILABLE TO COME TONIGHT TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THEIR OPINIONS.

AND AS A RESULT, SINCE THEY'RE NOT HERE TO DISCUSS THEIR OPINIONS, TO GIVE THE APPLICANT AND THOSE WITHSTANDING AN OPPORTUNITY TO CROSS-EXAMINE THEM, THAT LETTER IS NOT IN YOUR RECORD AND CANNOT BE CONSIDERED TONIGHT.

WELL, THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE REASON TO PUT THIS OFF AT LEAST 30 DAYS UNTIL SHIPPO CONVENES.

NEXT.

SO BE, UM, EACH COMMISSIONER SHALL VISIT THE SITE, WHICH, UH, I THINK ALL BUT ONE OF YOU WERE, I DID NOT ABLE YEAH.

WERE ABLE TO DO, UM, UH, MS. HUBER WAS OUT OF TOWN, SO, AND, UH, LET'S SEE.

SO THEN THAT'S B THEN C THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT FOR AN ENGINEERING REPORT, BUT IF THERE IS ONE, SO, UH, HERE AGAIN, UM, A, UH, UH, AN ENGINEERING REPORT WAS PROVIDED, BUT THEY ARE NOT HERE TO SPEAK TO IT.

OH, THEY ARE HERE? YEAH, ENGINEERING.

OH, OKAY.

IS IT, IS IT THE APPLICANT'S INTENTION FOR THE ENGINEER TO TESTIFY OR PROVIDE ANY INFORMATION? HE REALLY HAD QUESTIONS FOR HIM.

WE, WE WANTED GET IT AVAILABLE SO THAT HIS REPORT COULD BE, UH, REFERENCED.

DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE, SORRY, I WASN'T, I THOUGHT THEY WEREN'T GONNA HAVE AN ENGINEER HERE TONIGHT.

UH, LET'S SEE.

SO IS IS A COPY OF THAT REPORT THAT'S NOT INCLUDED IN, IN OUR PACKET? IS IT NOT? WELL, IT WAS IN THE, UH, DESIGN REVIEW PACKET.

DESIGN REVIEW ONE.

IS KIND OF THEIR OPINION ON THE WORTHINESS OF THIS HOUSE TO, TO REMAIN VERSUS BEING DEMOED? NO, NO.

I THOUGHT I SAW SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

UH, WHILE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THAT, MATT, I, SOMETHING THAT, THAT, UM, RICHARD JUST SAID IS NO, THE, THE REQUIREMENT, AS YOU POINTED OUT FOR JUST NOW IN YOUR DELIBERATIONS, HAVING THE INFORMATION FROM SHIPPO REGARDING THE PROPERTY AS A REQUIREMENT.

SO IF WE'RE NOT COUNTING THIS LETTER AS BEING A RESPONSE FROM SHIPPO, DO WE HAVE THE REQUISITE RESPONSE THAT ALLOWS US TO GO FORWARD WITH OUR DELIBERATION? THAT'S A FANTASTIC QUESTION, MR. WONKA.

SO THE FIRST CONSIDERATION THAT SHIPPO HAS TO PROVIDE TO YOU IS WHETHER THIS PROPERTY IS OF STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE.

OF COURSE.

AND I THINK THAT THERE'S SOME INFORMATION THAT'S ALREADY BEEN SHARED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NO BUILDINGS WITH STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE IN NEW BERN.

SO THAT CHECKS THAT FIRST BOX.

THE SECOND INQUIRY THAT YOU COULD ELICIT INFORMATION FROM SHIPPO ABOUT IS THE ARCHITECTURAL AND OTHER SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS PARTICULAR STRUCTURE.

I THINK TONIGHT YOU'VE BEEN PROVIDED WITH A GREAT DEAL OF INFORMATION ON THAT POINT.

UM, BUT IF YOU THINK THAT THERE'S MORE INFORMATION THAT SHIPPO COULD PROVIDE TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND WHETHER THIS PROPERTY IS OF SIGNIFICANCE FOR ANY OF THOSE CRITERIA, THEN THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.

OR YOU COULD FIND THAT YOU ARE, OR, OR, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT CHECKING BOXES IF, IF THE REQUIREMENTS SAY THAT WE ARE OBLIGATED TO, TO DO THAT AS PART OF THE DELIBERATIONS AND WE'RE UNABLE TO CHECK THAT BOX.

ARE, ARE WE COMFORTABLE MOVING FORWARD WITH THE DELIBERATIONS IF THE, IF SHIPPO IS UNABLE TO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION OR REFUSES TO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION? I DON'T THINK THIS COMMISSION IN GOOD FAITH COULD DELAY OR DENY A APPLICATION BECAUSE OF A LACK OF RESPONSE FROM SHIPPO.

UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS, IS, AND TELL ME IF I'M WRONG, MATT, IS THEY HAVE NOT SAID WE REFUSE.

IT WAS GIVE US 30 DAYS AND WE'VE GIVEN THEM 14 DAYS, SO, RIGHT.

SO YES AND NO.

UM, SO I THINK THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY'VE NOW PROVIDED WHAT WE'VE ASKED, ASKED FOR, BUT, UM, IT'S NOT, UH, SO WE MAY JUST NEED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR TO THEM AND ASK THEM TO PROVIDE WHAT WE ASKED FOR AND THEY MUST TESTIFY THEY CANNOT.

WELL, SO, UH, SO IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE, IF THEY ARE OFFERING OPINIONS ABOUT THE ULTIMATE ISSUE THAT'S BEFORE YOU, WHETHER THE STRUCTURE SHOULD BE DENIAL, UH, DEMOLISHED OR PRESERVED, THEN THE APPLICANT AND ANY PERSON WITH STANDING HAS A RIGHT TO CROSS-EXAMINE THEM TO, UM, CHALLENGE THE VERACITY OF THEIR OPINIONS, THEIR METHODS, AND THAT ULTIMATE CONCLUSION.

IF THEY'RE SPECIFICALLY OFFERING INFORMATION THAT'S RESPONSIVE TO THE INQUIRIES WHICH ARE JUST MERELY FACT BASED, UM, THEN THEY WOULD NOT NEED TO BE PRESENT.

SO, SO I'M SORRY, I I I DON'T WANNA BELABOR THE POINT, BUT WHEN YOU, THE, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING, UH, SHIPPO TO PROVIDE

[03:10:01]

WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR THEM TO PROVIDE IS THE FACTUAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE HISTORY, UH, AND CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF BUILDING NOT, UH, NOTHING ABOUT THE ARCHITECTURAL, NOTHING ABOUT SIGNIFICANCE, NOTHING ABOUT THE, UM, YES, YES.

THAT, BUT ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE.

BUT NOT THE STRUCTURAL, NOT THE CURRENT CONDITION.

HAVEN'T SHE DONE YES, CORRECT THAT IN FACT, IN YOUR PRESENTATION, UH, THE, THE FACTUAL PART AND THE HISTORY TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.

I THINK IT'S PRETTY THOROUGH.

MAY WHAT THE RULES AND PROCEDURES SAY ARE EVALUATE THE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR OF THE STRUCTURE AND PROVIDE A WRITTEN EVALUATION AND OPINION ON THE ARCHITECTURAL HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STRUCTURE.

RIGHT, OKAY.

WHICH IS SIMPLY TO HELP YOU TO HELP DETERMINE, INFORM YOU ABOUT THAT ASPECT OF GOOD, BUT IT IS NOT A DETERMINATION.

CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.

THANK YOU GUYS FOR THE CLARIFICATION.

SO, OKAY.

SO LET ME, LET ME, LET ME SEE IF I CAN KIND OF PUT A, PUT A, A WRAPPER AROUND THIS.

SO WHAT, WHAT I'M SEEING IS THAT WE HAVE A, UH, WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT VERNACULAR HISTORIC STRUCTURE HERE.

UH, I'M HEARING THAT WE'RE NOT SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO INDICATE THAT THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE CANNOT BE REHAB, REHABILITATED AND RESTORED.

AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE FOCUSING ON.

THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, WHICH IS RICHARD SAYS IT'S WHICH THE, FROM THE SECOND FLOOR WINDOW ON THE BACK DOWN, EVERYTHING BEHIND THAT IS VARI SUNDRY ADDITIONS OVER THE YEARS.

SO WHAT WE'RE REALLY FOCUSED ON IS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

THAT'S WHAT I'M GONNA CALL, SO THE STRUCTURE.

CAN I INTERRUPT THAT FOR A SEC? YEAH.

SO I, I I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS NOT, NOT WRONG, BUT I THINK THE, THE ENGINEER, IS IT MERIDIAN ENGINEERING WHO, WHO'S HERE? YES.

SINCE THEY'RE THERE AND THEY'VE PROVIDED A REPORT, IS IT APPROPRIATE TO, TO, TO ASK QUESTIONS OF SOMEONE WHO'S PROVIDED A VERY SIMILAR KIND OF ANALYSIS OF THE STRUCTURE? ABSOLUTELY.

IF THE ENGINEER IS HERE, UM, AND CAN STATE, YOU KNOW, HIS QUALIFICATIONS TO BE ABLE TO APPLY AS AN EXPERT IN THE FIELD OF ENGINEERING AND HAS AUTHORED THIS REPORT, THEN YOU CAN CONSIDER THE REPORT AND HIS TESTIMONY.

AWESOME.

AND IT'S UP ON THE SCREEN.

UH, CAN YOU COME TO THE MICROPHONE PLEASE? AND, AND YOUR NAME AND, UH, COMPANY? UH, I'M BRIAN PIKE WITH MERIDIAN ENGINEERING.

AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WITH THE COMPANY, IF I CAN ASK THAT? WITH MERIDIAN ENGINEERING, UM, TWO AND A HALF YEARS.

AND ENGINEERING QUALIFICATIONS? YOU'RE A PE? YES, SIR.

I'VE BEEN AN ENGINEER ALMOST 20 YEARS.

SO, SO YOU, YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE STRUCTURE YES, SIR.

AT, AT, UH, EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET? YES, SIR.

I ACTUALLY REVIEWED BOTH STRUCTURES AT SEVEN 10 NEW STREET AND EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET.

BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THE 11, NOT EIGHT 11.

RIGHT? UM, SO, UM, CAN YOU PICK UP, I WOULD WALK US THROUGH WHAT YOU LOOKED AT AND WHAT YOUR RESULTS WERE.

SO I WOULD ACTUALLY CONCUR WITH THE BUILDING OFFICIAL AND HIS ASSESSMENT THAT THE TWO STRUCTURES EXHIBIT VERY SIMILAR, UH, TENDENCIES, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET HAS A LOT OF WALL COVERINGS AND FLOOR COVERINGS THAT HAVE NOT YET BEEN REVEALED TO SHOW THE TRUE DAMAGE THAT'S PROBABLY HIDDEN, UH, BEHIND THE WALLS AND FOUNDATION OF THE FLOOR SYSTEM.

UM, AND HOW WOULD, WHAT WOULD YOU BASE THAT ON? UM, JUST THE PIECES AND PARTS THAT I DID OBSERVE.

I WILL QUALIFY THAT BY SAYING, AFTER LISTENING TO THIS DISCUSSION, THAT MY ANALYSIS DID NOT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN WHAT YOU'RE CALLING THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE AND THEN SUBSEQUENT ADDITIONS.

RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON THAT.

I DID NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN THAT WITHIN THE HOME FAIR.

UM, ONE OF THE THINGS I NOTED, UM, IN YOUR NOVEMBER 21ST, UH, LETTER, YOU HAVE A SECTION TALKING ABOUT RECOMMENDATIONS.

AND, AND YOU GO IN TO SAY THAT IF THIS PROPERTY IS WITHIN A, SINCE IT'S WITHIN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, THAT, UH, THAT MAY LIMIT OR PRECLUDE FULL DEMOLITION, AND YOU HAVE A SERIES OF, UM, SUGGESTIONS,

[03:15:01]

CAN YOU JUST WALK THROUGH THAT FOR A SEC? YEAH, SO JUST TO, JUST TO REITERATE, SIMILAR TO THE, UH, NEW STREET PROPERTY, WHICH HAD ALREADY RECEIVED QUITE A BIT OF, UM, WALL COVERING AND FLOOR COVERING, DEMOLITION, IF THE DECISION WAS MADE NOT TO DEMOLISH THIS PROPERTY, BUT TO PRESERVE IT OR ATTEMPT TO PRESERVE IT, UM, STRUCTURAL CONCLUSIONS COULD NOT BE MADE IN THIS EXISTING STATE.

THERE WOULD NEED TO BE SELECTIVE DEMOLITION OR, UH, MAYBE ENTIRE WALL COVERING, DEMOLITION AND FLOOR COVERING, DEMOLITION IN ORDER TO ACCURATELY ASSESS WHAT STRUCTURAL REPAIRS WOULD NEED TO TAKE PLACE.

AND WHAT KIND OF STRUCTURAL DAMAGE WOULD YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT? WALLS, FLOORS, MEMBRANE, GIRDERS.

WHAT SORTS OF THINGS, UM, WOULD YOU SUSPECT, YOU KNOW, FOR FOR SURE, ALL WALL COVERINGS WOULD NEED TO BE REMOVED.

UM, AND THE CEILING AND FLOOR BETWEEN THE TWO STORIES WOULD NEED TO BE REMOVED.

UM, THE FLOOR COVERING ON THE FIRST FLOOR, WE COULD EVALUATE FROM THE CRAWL SPACE, UM, SO THAT, THAT COULD REMAIN INTACT.

UH, I WOULD PROBABLY SUGGEST THAT WE TRY TO KEEP IT INTACT FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT BECAUSE, UH, THE PREVIOUS STRUCTURE WAS THE, THE SEVEN 10 NEW STREET WAS ACTUALLY UNSAFE, UH, TO EVALUATE.

ONCE EVERYTHING IS REMOVED, YOU'RE, YOU'RE LEFT WITH BARE BONES AND IT BECOMES A HAZARD.

NOW.

NOW I, I'M, I'M SURE THAT YOU'VE LOOKED AT OLD HOUSES BEFORE, UM, AND A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE TRY TO PRESERVE ALL THOSE COVERINGS ON THE WALLS AND THE, AND, AND THE FLOORS AND THINGS.

SO BY, BY YOUR RECOMMENDATION OF TAKING EVERYTHING OFF, DOESN'T THAT KIND OF DESTROY THE FABRIC OF THE, OF THE OLD STRUCTURE? I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

I MEAN, IF YOU'RE ASKING ME TO MAKE AN ASSUMPTION ABOUT THIS STRUCTURE WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO SEE IT, I, I DON'T, I CAN'T, I CAN'T DO THAT.

SO, OKAY.

IN ORDER FOR ME TO WEIGH IN ON THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE HOME, I GOTTA BE ABLE TO SEE IT UHHUH .

SO, FAIR ENOUGH.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR HER? WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING.

CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION? MM-HMM .

SO IF, IF ABSENT, UM, NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE EVERYTHING MM-HMM .

UM, BY LOOKING AT WHAT YOU COULD SEE.

I MEAN, I KNOW THAT THEY PULLED THE FLOOR UP IN A COUPLE PLACES AND, AND YOU KNOW, THE, THE CEILING SEEMED TO BE COMING DOWN IN, IN ONE OR TWO SPOTS, KIND OF OVER IN THAT WATER SECTION.

UM, DO YOU GET THE, UM, IDEA THAT THE WHOLE STRUCTURE IS THAT WAY OR JUST THOSE AREAS THAT APPEAR TO BE MORE DAMAGED BY THE, BY THE RAIN OR THE, OR COMING IN THROUGH THAT ROOF? I WOULD SAY, TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION, UM, NOTHING INDICATED TO ME THAT THERE WERE PARTS OF THE STRUCTURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WERE IN BETTER SHAPE OR WORSE SHAPE THAN OTHERS.

OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS, UM, ISOLATED AREAS WHERE MOISTURE INTRUSION WAS HEAVY AND, AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

BUT I, TO, AGAIN, IT WAS IN NOVEMBER, BUT TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION, I DIDN'T, I DON'T RECALL SAYING, YOU KNOW, THIS PART IS SALVAGEABLE OR THIS PART'S EXTENSIVELY BETTER OR WORSE THAN THE OTHER.

UH, IT WAS, IT WAS AN OVERALL CONCLUSION THAT I MADE BASED ON THE LIMITED ACCESS WE HAD.

DO DO, DOES YOUR FIRM TYPICALLY LOOK AT, AT OLD HOUSES AND, AND EVALUATE THEM FOR, FOR STRUCTURAL STABILITY? YES, SIR.

IS THAT, IS THAT YOUR PRIMARY FUNCTION WITH, WITH THIS COMPANY? I WOULD NOT CALL IT A PRIMARY FUNCTION, NO, SIR.

BUT WE PROBABLY DO THIS, I WOULD SAY A COUPLE TIMES A WEEK.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

IF WE COULD JUST VERIFY, SIR, WERE YOU SWORN IN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE HEARING? UH, NO.

NO MA'AM.

WE NEED TO SWEAR HIM AND ADOPT HIS TESTIMONY.

DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH? WHOLE TRUTH? YES, SIR.

AND YOUR TESTIMONY YOU JUST GAVE WAS TRUTHFUL? YES, SIR.

CHAIR.

I I, CAN YOU, SORRY, I, I DO HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.

IT'LL ALSO NEED TO PUT YOUR NAME ON THAT PIECE OF PAPER.

THAT MAY STILL BE UP THERE.

I DON'T SEE A PAPER UP HERE.

NO, SIR.

YOU CAN EVALUATE THE STRUCTURE? NO, SIR.

DON'T WRITE ON THE DESK.

SO, MR. PIKE, MY, MY MY LAST QUESTION I THINK YES, SIR.

IS, IS THAT, SO IF YOU EVALUATE OLD HOUSES, IS YOUR RECOMMENDATION ALWAYS TO TAKE OFF ALL OF THE FLOOR AND WALL COVERINGS BEFORE

[03:20:01]

NOT NO SIR.

BUT, BUT IT WOULD BE IN THIS CASE, TO PROVIDE FURTHER EVALUATION BASED ON THE SELECTIVE DEMOLITION THAT WAS PERFORMED.

UM, IN ORDER FOR ME TO CONCLUDE AGAIN FURTHER ABOUT THE STRUCTURE OF THE HOME, WE WOULD NEED TO SEE MORE.

UM, SO YES TO, TO, TO ANSWER YOUR PREVIOUS QUESTION, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN OUR ASSESSMENTS INCLUDE, UH, SELECTIVE DEMOLITION OR ADDITIONAL DEMOLITION.

UM, FOR EXAMPLE, FOLLOWING FIRE DAMAGE OR WHATEVER.

WE OFTEN RECOMMEND SELECTIVE DEMOLITION AND MAKE EVALUATIONS, WHICH MAY INCLUDE ADDITIONAL DEMOLITION TO THE BEST OF OUR, YOU KNOW, ABILITY TO GUESS WHERE THE DAMAGE MAY BE OCCURRING.

SO IT, IT IS A COMMON PROCESS THAT WE GO THROUGH TO RECOMMEND ADDITIONAL DEMOLITION.

IT JUST SEEMS ODD IN THE, IN THE WHOLE PRESERVATION PROCESS.

WE'RE ALL DONE NOW.

I'M OKAY.

UH, AND WE WERE ON THIS IDEA OF THE FRONT HALF OF THE BUILDING VERSUS THE REST.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS ABOUT THAT? WELL, COMMISSIONER PARSONS CERTAINLY HAS A SUGGESTION.

YOU KNOW, THE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT SOME GROUPS HERE THAT I, I THINK COULD REALLY HELP TO, UM, HELP MAKE SOME PROGRESS.

UH, YOU KNOW, WE'D, UH, WE'D LIKE TO TRY TO HELP, UH, MAKE SOME PROGRESS FOR MS. TAYLOR, WHATEVER PROGRESS MEANS.

BUT WE ALSO NEED TO DO OUR JOB, UH, AS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.

SO I'M NOT, I'M NOT SURE WHERE WE ARE AS FAR AS MAYBE KICKING AROUND SOME IDEAS ON HOW CAN WE MAKE SOME PROGRESS, UH, INSTEAD OF CONTINUING AD HEARING.

UH, YOU KNOW, I I, I'M KIND OF PONDERING THE IDEA OF HOW CAN WE ALLOW DEMO THE, THE DEMOLITION OF THE ADDITIONS, AND AGAIN, PRIMARY STRUCTURE ADDITIONS 'CAUSE THE PRIMARY, THE, UH, PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REALLY INTERESTED IN.

I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH ALLOWING DEMOLITION OF THE ADDITIONS TO TRY TO GET TO THE, UH, POINT WHERE THERE CAN BE A REBUILD OF NECESSARY OF A NECESSARY ADDITION OR ADDITIONS IN THE BACK.

UH, WE'VE GOT SHIPPO.

I KNOW THAT, UH, THE SHIPPO REPRESENTATIVE FROM EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA VISITED THE PROPERTY.

UH, WE'VE GOT NEWBURN PRESERVATION FOUNDATION, WE'VE GOT SOME EXPERTISE THERE TO HELP WITH, UH, DEVELOPING A REHAB AND RESTORATION PLAN FOR THE, FOR THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

SO I, I, I THINK WE'VE GOT SOME, SOME THINGS THAT WE CAN DO, SOME THINGS THAT WE CAN PURSUE TO SEE IF WE CAN IN FACT, PRESERVE THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, OUR KEY TARGET HERE, UH, AND AT THE SAME TIME HELP TO MOVE THINGS FORWARD TO, TO BUILD THE NECESSARY ADDITIONS.

SO I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IS A PARTIAL DEMO APPLICATION OR A COA FOR A PARTIAL DEMO OF THE BUILDING.

AND IF, YOU KNOW, IF WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE, BUT EVEN AS THE ENGINEER SUGGESTED THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE IS JUST MUCH, MUCH WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT.

WELL, WE'LL REVISIT THAT.

SO IN OUR DEMO PROCESS, ISN'T IT A TWO PHASE? SO YOU APPROVE THE DEMO BASED ON WHAT YOU THINK THE, UH, THE REBUILD IS GONNA BE? YOU CAN'T DO DEMO WITHOUT THE APPROVAL FOR REBUILD.

YOU CAN'T, YEAH, WELL, YOU CAN APPROVE THE DEMOLITION, BUT YOU, YOU CAN'T ISSUE A BUILDING PERMIT TO DO OKAY.

CAN'T ISSUE A DEMO PERMIT AND, AND REMEMBER THE, THE FACE.

ALRIGHT, FAIR, FAIR ENOUGH.

THE PLACE WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, WE'RE CONSIDERING ONLY DEMOLITION.

I UNDERSTAND.

AND IT HAS TO STAND ON ITS OWN MERITS.

TO DEMOLISH THE STUFF ON THE BACK AND REHAB THE FRONT.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THOUGH, AT LEAST FROM THAT SIDE OF, OF THE DIETS, THAT UM, THE, THE SUGGESTION IS TRYING TO CRAFT A WAY THAT WE CAN APPROVE DEMO OF THE NON-ORIGINAL SECTION, THE BACK SECTION IF YOU WILL.

IT, IT, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT, UM, WHICH I'M NOT, IF IF, IF WE WERE NOT TO APPROVE DEMOLITION, THE APPLICANT COULD IMMEDIATELY BRING A NEW APPLICATION

[03:25:02]

I THINK THE KEY IS THE APPLICANT HAS TO DO THIS, NOT US.

WELL, I THINK SO TOO.

THE APPLICANT HAS TO DECIDE THAT THEY WANT TO DO A PARTIAL DEMOLITION.

BUT EVEN UNDER WHAT TIM WAS TALKING ABOUT IS IF WE ISSUED A, A PARTIAL DEMOLITION, WE, THEY COULD STILL COULDN'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL WE HAD THE, WHAT THEY'RE PLANNING ON DOING FOR THE NEW STRUCTURE BEFORE THEY COULD MOVE FORWARD WITH THE DEMO PERMIT.

SO IS THAT NOT THE SAME AS WHAT YOU SUGGESTED? WELL, IT JUST SOUNDS TO ME LIKE, UH, FROM A PARLIAMENTARY PORT POINT OF VIEW, WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS BRING THE MOTION TO DEMOLISH AND VOTE IT DOWN AND THEN LET THE APPLICANT FIGURE OUT THAT HE NEEDS TO BRING AN APPLICATION.

I THINK THE APPLICANT HAS TO BE THE KEY HERE.

BUT MAYBE THE APPLICANT HEARD THIS.

BUT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE AN APPLICATION FOR A PARTIAL DEMOLITION.

WE DO NOT.

AND THAT, AND THAT'S KIND OF MY, MY WHERE I WAS GOING IS, IS TRYING TO RECRAFT THIS INTO A PARTIAL, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK PARLIAMENTARY YEAH.

WE, WE CAN'T DO THAT.

AND, AND, AND AGAIN, AND I, I WOULD LIKE, I WOULD LIKE FOR US AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE GOT SOME VERY TALENTED FOLKS HERE SITTING IN THE ROOM, UM, OUR HPHC ADMINISTRATOR, UH, I MEAN I KNOW THAT RICHARD AND MOLLY AND MAYBE GREGORY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ON THE PRESERVATION FOUNDATION.

SO RICHARD, THERE'S SOME CERTAIN, CERTAINLY SOME KNOWLEDGE AND RESOURCES THERE, SHIPPO.

I MEAN, WE DON'T WANT TO JUST SAY, WELL ARCHITECT PLENTY OF RESOURCES AND PLENTY OF PEOPLE TO WORK WITH THE, WITH THE APPLICANT, WITH THE, WITH THE CONTRACTOR, UH, TO TRY TO DO THIS SO THAT WE ALL, WE ALL GET WHAT WE WANT.

SO, MR. CHAIR, I THINK GOING TO YOUR EARLIER POINT, THE, THE QUESTION IS FROM A PROCEDURAL STANDPOINT THAT YOU HAVE AN APPLICATION BEFORE YOU FOR THE COMPLETE DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURE.

AS YOU ALL KNOW, THE APPLICANT AT ANY TIME DURING THE HEARING CAN REVISE THEIR APPLICATION.

SO THIS MAY BE A MOMENT IF YOU ALL ARE CONTEMPLATING SOME TYPE OF PARTIAL DEMOLITION TO ENGAGE WITH THE APPLICANT TO DETERMINE WHETHER THEY WOULD BE INCLINED TO AMEND THEIR APPLICATION OR IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED WITH THEIR APPLICATION AS IT'S BEEN PROPER SO FAR TONIGHT.

HOWEVER, I AND I APPRECIATE THAT.

UM, HOWEVER, WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO APPROVE A A, OH, I GUESS WE DON'T HAVE MUCH OF A PLAN IF THAT WERE TO BE THE CASE FOR A NEW ADDITION ON THE BACK.

SO WE COULD APPROVE EVEN IF, IF THEY AGREED OR, OR PRO OR PROFFERED A NEW APPLICATION FOR, WE COULD, WE COULD, UH, ACT ON THAT.

BUT WE COULD NOT ALL ACT ON A NEW STRUCTURE THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE SUBMITTED AS A NEW PLAN.

OF COURSE, THEY WOULD NEED TO PROVIDE SOME REVISED INFORMATION.

AND I DON'T KNOW, WE HAVE A, WOULD HAVE A COMPLETE APPLICATION TO DEFINE WHAT THE PARTIAL DEMOLITION WAS.

THAT'S THE SECOND POINT.

YES, SIR.

YOU KNOW, WHAT WALLS, WHAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY DOCUMENT TO LOOK AT.

I, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE APPLICANT CAN BRING A, A MODIFIED APPLICATION TONIGHT.

THAT WOULD WORK.

I THINK IT'S GONNA TAKE SOME CRACK.

I THINK THERE'S NO LOSS IN, IN YOUR SUGGESTION TO IF, IF THAT'S THE MOTION, IS IT TO DENY THEN THEY CAN QUICKLY TURN AROUND WITH AN ALTERNATIVE.

THEY, THEY CAN BE DESIGNED REVIEW IN TWO WEEKS OF RIGHT BACK HERE IN A MONTH.

SO IS THERE A MOTION? I THINK WE FINISHED YOUR ISSUES, MR. SHELLEY.

RIGHT? DID A MATTER, ARE YOU DONE WITH ALL YOUR DELIBERATIONS? UH, LET'S SEE.

WE'VE HAD THE DESIGN REVIEW AND THEN THE VOTE TO APPROVE.

OF REASON IF YOU WERE TO DO A DEMOLITION.

WE WERE ON THE THIRD, UM, THIRD OF THE THREE CONSIDERATIONS.

THEN WE WENT THROUGH THE, UM, WE'RE DOWN TO E YEAH.

UM, TO REMIND YOU THAT FINDINGS OF FACT WERE NECESSARY AND GUIDELINES.

AND THEN F IS, UM, TO WORK WITH A PROPERTY OWNER TO IDENTIFY FEATURES THAT, AND THINGS THAT CAN BE SALVAGED.

G IS, UH, STRUCTURE SHOULD BE DOCUMENTED BEFORE IT'S DEMOLISHED.

UH, AND THEN, YES.

AND THEN JUST PROVIDING YOU WITH YOUR, UM, STATEMENTS

[03:30:01]

SO DOES ANYONE HAVE A MOTION? UH, SO MR. CHAIRMAN, UH, JUST BEFORE WE GET TO A MOTION, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST IS WHEN WE RUN INTO A SITUATION LIKE THIS, UH, AND IT, SOMEONE HAS ALREADY MENTIONED THIS, IS GIVE THE APPLICANT THE OPTION OF, OKAY, UH, WITHDRAW THE APPLICATION AND DESIGN REVIEW.

LET'S, YOU KNOW, LET'S HAVE ANOTHER SWING AT THIS.

THE SECOND OPTION WOULD BE, GO WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT HERE.

WE MAKE A DECISION ON WHAT IS HERE AND WHAT THE APPLICATION IS.

WHAT'S THAT? AND MAKE A DECISION ON THE APPLICATION ON AS IS AND PRESENTED.

IS THERE A BENEFIT TO DOING EITHER OF THOSE? WELL, BY, BY WITHDRAWING THE APPLICATION, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DRAWN THE APPLICATION.

UH, THE APPLICANT HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, OKAY, LET'S, YOU KNOW, LET'S HAVE A THINK ABOUT THIS AT DESIGN REVIEW AS OPPOSED IN THIS CASE WE DENY IT.

AND THAT'S KIND OF IT.

THESE, BUT WE DON'T PRECLUDE ANYTHING.

WE DON'T, I DON'T, I DON'T REALLY SEE ANY PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE.

BUT AGAIN, WE'VE, WE'VE GIVEN THE APPLICANT THAT OPPORTUNITY IN THE PAST OR THOSE TWO OPTIONS IN THE PAST.

UM, YOU CHAIRMAN, DO YOU WANT TO INVITE THE APPLICANT TO WITHDRAW HONOR YOU ARE HERE, DO YOU HAVE ANY INTEREST IN WITH, IN, UH, WITHDRAWING THE APPLICATION TO BE RESUBMITTED LISTENING TO THE CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU HAD? I, I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE A, A COMPLICATED ISSUE HERE.

UM, BASED ON MY STANDPOINT, A LOT OF WHAT WE ARE PRESENTING IS BECAUSE OF WHAT GRANT MONIES ARE DICTATING TO US.

SO, SO WOULD IT FROM MY, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW I WOULD, I WOULD MUCH RATHER A FULL DEMOLITION APPLICATION BE DENIED.

ALLOW ME TO TAKE THAT DENIAL BACK TO GRANT FUNDS AND REQUEST CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY ARE WILLING TO GET INVOLVED WITH BECAUSE AT THAT POINT THEY MAY WITHDRAW AND PULL THOSE FUNDS AWAY AND THEN WE WOULD NOT PURSUE THIS PROJECT ANY LONGER.

I THINK THAT THAT'S A FAIR ASSESSMENT.

WE'VE HEARD WHAT HE WANTS.

BRING THE MOTION TO.

AND MADE RECOMMENDATIONS.

WANT WE MOVE? YEAH, PLEASE.

OR YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD? YOU, I THINK YOU'VE GOT YOUR NOTES.

I'VE GOT SOME NOTES, BUT GO FOR IT.

WELL, I'LL, I'LL GIVE IT A SHOT AND YOU CAN, YOU CAN CORRECT.

UM, I'M MR. CHAIR.

I MOVE TO DENY THE PROPOSED DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURE LOCATED AT EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET BY FINDING THE APPLICATION TO BE INCONGRUOUS WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN STANDARDS, DESIGN PRINCIPLE AND STANDARDS AS PROVIDED FOR IN THE CITY OF NEWBORN CODE OF ORDINANCES, SECTION 15.411 THROUGH 15 4 4 2 9, AND NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT'S DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS AND THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION POLICIES AND RULES AND PROCEDURES BASED ON THE FOLLOWING STANDARDS AND FINDING OF FACT DEMOLITION 6.4 0.2 THROUGH THROUGH 6.4 0.5 AND THE FINDINGS OF FACT BASED ON THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THE PROJECT APPLICATION.

AND THE TESTIMONY PROVIDED IN THIS HEARING ARE THE APPLICATION IS FOR THE DEMOLITION OF A RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE AT EIGHT 11 P*****K STREET.

A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE BUILT ABOUT 1930 TO 1940 IN THE TIGHT 1830, I'M SORRY, 1830 TO 1840 IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.

AND TWO, THE STRUCTURE IS LISTED IN THE 2003 NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY AND DOCUMENTED AS A CON SIGNIFICANT STRUCTURE BY PETER SINBECK IN HIS 1988 HISTORIC ARCHITECTURAL BOOK.

AND THREE, DURING THE INVESTIGATION OF THE WORK TO BE COMPLETED FOR THE HOME RESTORATION, ELEMENTS OF THE STRUCTURE WERE EXPOSED AND THE CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURE WAS DOCUMENTED AND PRESENTED TO THE HPC AND FOUR, THE MEMBERS OF THE HPC VISITED THE STRUCTURE AND WERE ABLE TO OBSERVE THE CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURE AND ITS ELEMENTS FIRSTHAND.

AND FIVE, INFORMATION FROM THE STATE, STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE HAVE BEEN PROVIDED.

AND SIX, THE CITY'S CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL REVIEWED THE OVERALL CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURE

[03:35:01]

AND SEVEN, THE HPC HAS TO DETERMINE THAT THE STRUCTURE, SPECIFICALLY THE PRIMARY 1830 TO 1840 PORTION OF THE STRUCTURE IS OF A CONDITION THAT RESTORATION IS THE APPROPRIATE ACTION, NOT DEMOLITION, AND EIGHT, THAT THE HPC HAS FOLLOWED ITS PROCEDURE FOR REVIEWING AN APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION OF A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SECOND, MR. CHAIR, JUST TO CLARIFY ONE POINT IN THE MOTION, I THINK MR. WEER INDICATED THAT INFORMATION HAD BEEN RECEIVED BY SHI SHIPPO AND CONSIDERED BY THE BOARD TONIGHT.

I I DON'T THINK THAT IS REFLECTED IN THE RECORD.

INFORMATION I, AND WHAT I MEANT TO SAY, AND I THINK IT WAS LISTED HERE, IS WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS A STATE SIGNIF SIGNIFICANT, UM, IF YOU LIKE, I'LL REPHRASE THAT.

YES, PLEASE.

UM, SO I BELIEVE THAT WAS, UH, FIVE THAT, UH, INFORMATION FROM THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE HAS INDICATED THAT THIS, UH, PROPERTY IS NOT OF STATEWIDE SIGNIFICANCE.

MAY I SUGGEST THAT YOU ADD GUIDELINE 1.1.

ONE POINT.

THE PURPOSE OF THE NEW BERN HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES IS TO HELP PRESERVE THE HISTORIC CHARACTER AND ARCHITECTURAL FABRIC OF NEWBURG HISTORIC LANDMARKS AND DISTRICTS PROVIDE A LINK TO NEW'S HISTORY PEOPLE, EVENTS AND ARCHITECTURE THAT DEFINES THE CHARACTER OF ER AND SHAPES ITS PRESENT IDENTITY.

THE INTENT IS NOT TO PREVENT PHYSICAL CHANGE OR IMPOSE PARTICULAR ARCHITECTURAL STYLES, BUT TO MODERATE CHANGES BY PROTECTING ARCHITECTURAL GYMS AND REDUCING DISLOCATION CAUSED BY RANDOM CHANGE.

THE GOAL IS TO MAINTAIN OUR COMMUNITY'S INDIVIDUAL CHARACTER AND SENDS THE PLACE HERE, HERE.

I THINK THAT THAT'S GOOD WORDS.

I DON'T SEE THAT IN HERE AS A STANDARD, HOWEVER, THAT'S IN THE TEXT OF THE, OF THE DOCUMENT.

WELL, IF YOU COULD REPRESENT THAT AS A, AS A PRINCIPLE, RIGHT? MM-HMM .

HOWEVER, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IS A, A STANDARD.

UM, SO, UM, I'LL ADD THAT AS AS SECTION NINE TO THE, TO THE MOTION.

SECTION NINE WILL BE THAT THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THE NEW BERN PRESERVATION, UM, COMMISSION IS TO, UH, PRESERVE THE HISTORIC CHARACTER AND ARCHITECTURAL FABRIC OF, OF NEWBURGH.

FINE.

IT'S NOT RIGHT THERE.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

MR. PARSONS WAS THE ORIGINAL SECOND.

IS THAT STILL YOUR SECOND TO THE MOTION WITH THE AMENDMENT? I OKAY.

TO COME AND PRESENT ON BEHALF OF MS. TAYLOR.

OPPOSED? OKAY.

SO WE HAVE A DECISION THERE DENYING DEMOLITION TONIGHT, BUT WE DO WANT TO WORK WITH YOU.

I WANT YOU TO LEAVE WITH THAT IMPRESSION.

MR. THOMPSON LAID OUT A WHOLE YES.

BUNCH OF OPTIONS MAYBE FOR YOU THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER PARSONS IS HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THE PRESERVATION FOUNDATION AND SO, AND AS HE SAID, ALSO HELPED WRITE THE SANDBAG BOOK.

UM, ANYTHING ELSE? MAY I CLOSE WITH ONE COMMENT? SURE.

AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERATION.

IT IS OUR INTENT TO TRY TO HELP MS. TAYLOR GET BACK INTO A HOME.

AND WE DO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THE SENSITIVITY OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, BUT WE ALSO RECOGNIZE, UH, HISTORICAL IS HISTORY.

AND AS SEEN TONIGHT THROUGH THE PRESENTATIONS, THIS STRUCTURE HAS CHANGED OVER TIME AND WE WERE BLESSED WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO RECONSTRUCT AN EXISTING HOUSE NOT BOUND BY ANOTHER PROGRAM'S RESTRICTIONS.

SO WE WERE, WE WERE HOPING TO BE ABLE TO BE A PART OF CONTINUING THE HISTORY OF THE PRENTICE HOUSE AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO TRYING TO, TO FIND A SOLUTION TO IT.

I KNOW IT'S GONNA BE A DIFFICULT TASK, UM, BUT I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR HELP AND SUPPORT IN TRYING TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

BUT I DO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT PRESERVING HISTORY IS NOT FREEZING HISTORY.

AND JUST FOR THE RECORD OF SAYING THAT, UH, I APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT YOU DO.

I APPRECIATE YOU ALL ALLOWING ME

[03:40:01]

AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU FOR A SOLUTION TO SEE IF WE CAN GET MS. TAYLOR BACK INTO A HOME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THE NEXT ITEM IS POTENTIAL ADDITIONS TO MINOR WORKS LIST AND THEY'RE OUTLINED FOR THE COMMISSIONERS ON A PAGE HERE WITH RED LETTERING FOR THE NEW CHANGES.

LOOK AT

[5.A. Information on Historic District Design Principles and Standards Update]

THE AGENDA.

THERE IS, WE'RE STILL WORKING ON A DRAFT OF HISTORIC DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS UPDATE, AND THAT'S MOVING ALONG.

UM, WE HAD THE LAST DESIGN REVIEW MEETING, UH, AND THEN A SUBSEQUENT MEETING TO DISCUSS SPECIFIC ASPECTS, ALL OF WHICH WERE RECORDED.

SO WITH ANY QUESTIONS TO THAT, YOU COULD REFER TO MATT, UH, IN THE FUTURE, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE A DRAFT YET TO CIRCULATE.

[6.A. Additions and Revisions to the Minor Works list: 1. Primary: “Landscaping” revised to “Landscaping and Hardscaping” 2. Primary: Add “Street Furniture, Kiosks, Trash receptacles, Information racks, and similar elements” 3. Secondary: Add “Playgrounds and play equipment”]

I'LL JUST REVIEW THEM BRIEFLY THAT WE WOULD ADD TO LANDSCAPING THE WORD AND HARDSCAPING, SCAPING AND THEN ADD TO MINOR WORKS IN PRIMARY AREAS, STREET SCAPING, STREET SCAPE, FRONT STREET SCAPE FURNITURE, PAVEMENT AND TREATMENTS, KIOSKS, TRASH RECEPTACLES, INFORMATION RACKS AND SIMILAR ELEMENTS.

AND THEN IN SECONDARY AND TERTIARY AREAS, AND PERGO, ARBS, TRELLIS, PLAYGROUND AND PLAYGROUND APPARATUS AND STRUCTURES, TRASH RECYCLING AND DUMPSTER ENCLOSURES.

AND THAT'S THE EXTENT OF THOSE CHANGES.

THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE IS WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF HARDSCAPING? QUESTION? THAT QUESTION.

EXACTLY MY QUESTION.

BECAUSE WHEN WE GET INTO THE OTHER THINGS, A LOT OF THAT IS WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER PERHAPS HARDSCAPING.

SO GENERALLY IT'S UH, YOU KNOW, UH, PATIOS WHERE IT'S, UH, THE PA THE PAVEMENT OF THE PATIOS OR, OR PIAZZAS OR LARGER, UH, PIAZZAS, UH, PLAZAS FOR, UH, LARGER BUILT COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.

UM, YEAH, SO MOSTLY THAT BECAUSE THE L IS DRIVEWAYS IS CONSIDERED HARDSCAPING AS WELL, PLANTING PLANTED MATERIALS AS WELL.

HE'S ALREADY GOT DRIVEWAYS AS A, AS A POSSIBILITY.

DRIVEWAYS ARE ALREADY WELL IN SECONDARY, BUT GOOD ANSWER.

GOOD ANSWER.

YEAH, JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY SCULPTURE.

UM, AND I SEE, I SEE, I'M LOOKING AT THE, UM, DEFINITIONS IN ARCHITECTURAL TERMS, SECTION SEVEN OF THE GUIDELINES.

THAT'S PROBABLY A DEFINITION THAT WE NEED TO ADD, ADD TO MY LIST.

JUST THE ONLY THING I, I'D CAUTION IS WE DON'T GET SO SPECIFIC THAT THERE'S NO BROAD CATEGORIES MM-HMM .

UM, IN THE TOWN I WAS ON PLANNING BOARD, IF YOU WANTED TO OPEN A TOBACCO SHOP, YOU HAD TO HAVE A, A NEW ORDINANCE FOR TOBACCO SHOP.

AND THE LAND USE PLAN.

SO, UH, POINT WASNT RETAIL.

WASN'T RETAIL, WHAT, WHAT ARE THEY GONNA SELL? YEAH.

SO WE HAVE, BUT IS, IS THERE A WAY OF, OF SOME OF THESE THINGS, OF CLASSIFYING IN A BROADER CATEGORY TO BE ABLE TO PICK UP THINGS THAT, THAT AREN'T, UH, SPECIFICALLY A, A TRELLIS, AN ARBOR OR A PERGOLA, BUT STILL HAVE THAT SAME FUNCTION OR THAT SAME YEAH, I ENDED UP JUST PULLING THOSE OUT OF THE GUIDELINES.

'CAUSE THEY'RE LISTED SPECIFICALLY IN THE GUIDELINES.

AND THAT MAKES SENSE.

I, I, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK IF WE WERE TO ASK A A, A LANDSCAPE DESIGNER, THEY COULD COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT TERM, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, UM, WHERE ELSE DO WE ACT ACTUALLY, IF SOMEONE UM, COMES IN TO PROPOSE THAT? UM, IS IT FENCE? YOU COULD SAY NO.

SO WHERE ELSE WE PUT IT? THE KIOSK I DON'T THINK WAS IN THE GUIDELINES PREVIOUSLY.

THAT'S CORRECT.

BUT , I WOULDN'T WANT THAT TO MEAN A COMMERCIAL KIOSK WHERE THEY WERE SELLING THINGS.

OH.

SO MM-HMM.

DO PEOPLE AGREE WITH THAT? THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

THERE'S INFORMATION IN OR OR COULD IT MEAN THAT, I MEAN IT'S JUST THAT, BUT I'M NOT SURE WE WANT TO GO THAT FAR.

BUT WHEN, IF, WHAT IF ONE IS PROPOSED, THEN WHAT DO WE DO THEN? IT'S A MAJOR, THEY CAN COME TO THE HBC.

I THINK I SEE.

UM, UH, RATHER THAN HAVE STREET GOOD POINT.

STREET KIOSKS UP AND DOWN THE TOWN.

NOT THAT YOU WOULD DO THAT, BUT UH, OKAY.

IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MODIFICATIONS TO THE MARLOW WORKS LIST? SO DID YOU WANT TO MODIFY THE UH, WORD KIOSK IN ANY WAY? NO,

[03:45:01]

NO SECOND.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR A OPPOSED OR SO WE'LL MAKE THOSE CHANGES EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY.

SO IS KIOSK ANOTHER OPERATIONAL DEFINITION WE NEED TO, YES.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IF EVER THAT AN APPLICATION FOR A QUOTE UNQUOTE KIOSK COMES IN AND STAFF IS UNCOMFORTABLE ABOUT WHETHER IT NEEDS THE DEFINITION OF A KIOSK OR NOT, THEN IT JUST COMES BEFORE YOU ALL AND THEN WE HAVE A HEARING LIKE WE DID TONIGHT.

WE ENCOURAGE MR. KELLY, SHELLY THAT YOU KNOW, ANYTHING THAT HE'S NOT COMFORTABLE WITH SEND HERE.

AND IF HE'S INCLINED TO SAY NO AND THE APPLICANT IS OBJECTING TO THAT, COME HERE.

THAT'S RIGHT.

WE SHOULD CONCLUDE ON THAT.