[1. OPENING OF MEETING WITH ROLL CALL ]
[00:00:03]
OKAY, I CALL IN ORDER THE MAY, UH, MEETING OF THE NEW BERN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.CERTAINLY, UH, MOLLY PALES IS EXPECTED TO ARRIVE SHORTLY, BUT IT'S CURRENTLY ABSENT.
UM, WE'LL SEE THAT HE'S NOT HERE NOW.
ARE THERE ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA? SEE NONE.
[3. CONSENT AGENDA ]
AGENDA ONE IS APPROVAL OF THE SPECIAL CALL MEETING MINUTES.UH, WE WILL COMMENT, THERE'S SOME TYPOS IN THERE, BUT I WASN'T ABLE TO CORRECT THEM SINCE IT WAS A SCANNED DOCUMENT.
UM, SO I COULDN'T CORRECT IT IN ADOBE, BUT THEY WEREN'T MATERIAL.
SO IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THAT? AND ALSO ON THE WRITTEN DECISIONS, DID YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THAT? ANY COMMENTS ON THE WRITTEN DECISION? SO MOVED.
IF NOT, I LOOK FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA.
[4.A. HEARINGS: INTRODUCTION, SWEARING-IN, SUMMARY OF PROCESS 1. Introduction of Hearings and Rules of Procedure 2. Swearing-In of Speakers 3. Summary of the Hearing Process ]
START OUR INTRODUCTION TO HEARINGS, UH, ON UH, RULES AND ON HEARINGS FOR THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.HERE'S A SUMMARY OF HOW WE WILL GENERALLY CONDUCT A HEARING ON AN HBC APPLICATION.
THE HBC ADMINISTRATOR PROVIDES AN OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION THE APPLICANT OR REPRESENTATIVE PRESENTS THE APPLICATION.
PROPONENTS OR OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.
REBUTTAL IS ALLOWED BY THE APPLICANT AND BY PROPONENTS AND OPPONENTS WHO RECEIVE NOTICE, AND OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT INFORMATION AND WILL BE DIRECTLY AFFECTED CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE.
THE HBC ADMINISTRATOR PRESENTS THE STAFF'S FINDINGS AND THE APPLICANT THEN HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE ANY FINAL COMMENTS ON THEIR APPLICATION.
THE COMMISSIONERS DISCUSS THE EVIDENCE AND THEY ASK FOR CLARIFICATION FROM THE APPLICANT OR PRESENTERS.
THE CHAIRMAN CALLS FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE OR DENY THE APPLICATION WITH STATED FINDINGS OF FACT.
THE MOTION IS THEN DISCUSSED BY THE COMMISSION.
CHAIRMAN CALLS FOR A VOTE ON THE MOTION BY THE COMMISSION, AND THE COA CAN BE APPROVED, APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS OR DENIED.
MATT, IF YOU DO THE ROLL, THE, UH, SWEARING IN, PLEASE.
ANYONE WHO PLANS TO SPEAK TODAY, PLEASE COME FORWARD.
SO YOU ACTUALLY SWEAR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
DO YOU PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH? NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
AND THEN IF YOU HAVE NOT SIGNED IN, PLEASE BRING YOUR NAME.
AND JESSE, DID YOU WANT TO PRESENT ANY OVERVIEW OF THE CHANGE OR NOT? NOW YOU WANNA DO IT? YEAH, AFTER THAT.
FOR RECORD, MOLLY, MOLLY BAILS.
THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT.
FOR ANYONE WHO'S BEEN TO MEETINGS BEFORE OR WATCHED MEETINGS ON TV, THE PROCESS IS CHANGING TONIGHT.
UH, WE APPRECIATE WHAT JESSE RU AND MATT HAVE DONE TO TRY TO SPEED UP SOME OF THE MORE TEDIOUS PARTS AND NOT CHANGE THE END RESULT OF WHAT WE DO, WHAT WE'VE DECIDED, AND HOW WE APPROACH
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ENFORCING PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.SO, JESSE, DO YOU WANT TO DESCRIBE THAT? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU FOR THAT SUMMARY.
YES, WE'RE EXCITED THIS EVENING.
WE'RE TESTING OUT A NEW FORMAT WITH HOW WE PRESENT THESE CASES TO YOU.
YOU'LL NOTE THAT YOUR PACKETS STILL LOOK PRETTY MUCH EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOU'RE ACCUSTOMED TO AND LAID, ARE LAID OUT THE SAME.
SO THEY INCLUDE A ROBUST VOLUME OF INFORMATION.
WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS ATTEMPTED TO SET UP A FORMAT WHERE WE EXTRACT THE LINGERING ISSUES AND VERY SIMPLY CONFIRM SOME OF THE THINGS THAT TAKE SOME TIME.
AND WE'VE TRADITIONALLY WALKED THROUGH.
THOSE THINGS ARE STILL CAPTURED IN YOUR STAFF REPORT.
HOWEVER, IT'S GOING TO LOOK AND FEEL AND MOVE MUCH MORE SWIFTLY TONIGHT THAN WE'RE ACCUSTOMED TO.
THIS IS NOT THE FINAL PRODUCT, PER SE.
IF YOU'VE GOT IDEAS ON THINGS TO IMPROVE OUR POWERPOINT PRESENTATION, THINGS WE CAN CONTINUE TO REMOVE OR THINGS MAYBE YOU WANT REINTRODUCED AND SOME MORE ATTENTION PAID TO, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO TAKE THAT FEEDBACK BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING.
FOR THE TIME BEING, WE ASK FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
IF THIS FEELS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THIS TIME, WE'RE STILL EXPERIMENTING.
AND JUST FOR INFORMATION, THE, THE MOTIONS WHICH HAVE GOTTEN VERY, VERY LONG NOW CAN BE SHORTENED.
RATHER THAN LIST ALL THE GUIDELINES OR STANDARDS, THE COMMISSIONER MAY SIMPLY SAY, BASED ON THE FOLLOWING SPECIFIC PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS LISTED IN THE ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT, AND THEN GO ON AND STILL PROVIDE THE FINDINGS EFFECT.
SO, SO WITH THAT, IT SHOULD SPEED THE PROCESS.
SO, UH, SO FOR EXAMPLE, I'LL NOTE THAT THIS SLIDE SEEMS A LITTLE SMALL AND HARD TO READ.
IS THAT RIGHT IN THE AUDIENCE THERE? CAN YOU READ THAT? OKAY.
SO, THE CHAIRMAN'S INTRODUCTION TO THE START OF HEARINGS.
IT'S A COMMISSION APPOINTED BY THE CITY OF NEW BERN'S, BOARD OF ALDERMAN RESPONSIBLE FOR PRESERVING AND SAFEGUARDING NEW BERN'S LOCALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICTS, BOTH DOWNTOWN AND RIVERSIDE, BASED ON US DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, STATE STATUTES, CITY ORDINANCES, AND NEW BERN'S, HISTORIC DIS HISTORIC DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.
TWO OF THE MAJOR TASKS OF THE HPC INCLUDE APPROVING APPLICATIONS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND PREVENTING DEMOLITION OF HISTORIC STRUCTURES DUE TO NEGLECT.
THE HPC HOLDS A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING ON AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
THEY HEAR SWORN TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, BY PARTIES WHO RECEIVE NOTICE OF THE HEARING AND BY OTHERS WHO CAN JUSTIFY THAT THEY HAVE RELEVANT EVIDENCE AND ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE APPLICATION.
THE COMMISSION CANNOT CONSIDER COMMENTS BASED ON PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES, HEARSAY OR PERSONAL OPINION, THAT CANNOT BE DIRECTLY, DIRECTLY RELATED TO SPECIFIC HISTORIC PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.
LIKEWISE, COMMISSIONERS SHALL PRE FROM STATING PERSONAL OPINION, PERSONAL LIKES OR DISLIKES OR HEARSAY DURING A HEARING.
THE COMMISSION'S DECISION ON AN APPLICATION IS BASED SOLELY ON TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT THE HEARING THAT DIRECTLY RELATES TO THE HISTORIC DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.
[4.B. 613 Pollock St. (Tryon Palace) – to include removal of chain link fencing and hedges, replacement with a low wall and metal fencing along the northern end of Eden St., and replacement and new light fixtures in the Primary AVC.]
HEARING IS SIX 13 P*****K STREET, TRY AND PALLETS CORRECT.SO, UH, SIX 13 P*****K STREET IS THE PROPOSAL IS TO INCLUDE REMOVAL OF A CHAIN LINK FENCING AND HEDGES REPLACEMENT WITH A LOW WALL AND METAL FENCING ALONG THE NORTHERN END OF EDEN STREET AND REPLACEMENT AND NEW LIGHT FIXTURES IN THE PRIMARY.
ALL OF THIS IN THE PRIMARY A, B, C.
UH, TO NOTE, UH, THE STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICATION TO BE DETERMINED TO BE COMPLETE.
UH, THE OWNER'S AUTHORIZATION OF REPRESENTATION HAS BEEN RECEIVED AND MR. CHRIS BACH AND MR. GEORGE HEMINGWAY THIRD HAVE BEEN AUTHORIZED TO REPRESENT THE OWNER.
THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR HAS REVIEWED THE APPLICATION AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY, AND THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR HAS REVIEWED THE APPLICATION AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
SO, THE OVERVIEW OF THE APPLICATION IS THAT THE APP APPLICANTS ARE CHRIS BACH AND GEORGE HEMINGWAY II PROPERTY OWNER IS ACTUALLY THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA.
UH, AND CRYSTAL REAGAN, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF PALACE, UH, LOCATION IS SIX 13 P*****K STREET.
AND THIS IS OF COURSE, A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
UH, THE NATIONAL REGISTRY INVENTORY DESCRIPTION, UM, DESCRIBES THE BUILDING ITSELF AND MENTIONS THAT IN THE 1950S, UH, THIS, UH, COMPLEX WAS RECONSTRUCTED.
UH, AND THE, UH, THE WESTERN DEPENDENCY WAS THE ONLY ORIGINAL SURVIVING, UH, PIECE THAT WAS THEN RESTORED.
UH, AND OUR TRUSTEE SAN BECK, UH, RESOURCE, UH, DOES NOT MENTION THE WALLS AND FENCING.
[00:10:01]
UH, GUIDE GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS, UH, THIS IS IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.SO WE HAVE, UH, FIRST AN AERIAL VIEW OF THE PROJECT, UH, AND IT'S SHOWN HERE, HIGHLIGHTED IN THE WHITE DASHED AREA.
AND IT FOLLOWS ALONG EDEN STREET, UH, THE, UH, NORTH END OF EDEN STREET.
AND, UH, WHERE IT APPROACHES P*****K STREET, WHICH IS SHOWN AT THE TOP OF THE SLIDE.
THESE ARE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT SHOWING THE EXISTING CHAIN LINK FENCE AND SHRUBBERY HERE, UH, UH, SOME HEDGES AND, UH, OFF TO THE LEFT ON THE UPPER, ON THE UPPER PHOTOGRAPH, UH, THE, THE NEW, UH, FENCE WILL EXTEND PAST THE EXISTING FENCING AND JOIN UP WITH THAT SMALL ONE STORY ADDITION ON THE, ON THE HOUSE.
THE BOTTOM ONE SHOWS THE REST OF THE EXTENT OF THE, UH, PROJECT DOWN TO THE, UH, GATE, UH, UH, OFF TO THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THAT PHOTOGRAPH.
UM, THIS GIVES YOU A CLOSEUP VIEW OF THAT, UH, FENCE AND HEDGES.
UH, THESE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS WERE PROVIDED TO PROVIDE, TO PROVIDE AN EXAMPLE OF EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING.
UM, A SHORT BRICK WALL WITH, UH, METAL FENCING ON TOP OF IT.
AND THEN, UM, SOME TALL BRICK, UH, PIERS.
UH, AND, UH, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE ON METCALF STREET.
SO THESE WOULD BE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THOSE.
UH, THIS IS JUST A DETAIL OF THE FENCING AS IT ATTACHES TO THE, UH, BRICK WALLS.
UH, THIS IS A SITE PLAN VIEW OF THE PROJECT.
UH, THE RED LINE INDICATES THE LOCATION OF THIS NEW, UH, BRICK AND FENCE, UH, METAL FENCING WALL.
UH, SO, UH, EXTENDS AS I MENTIONED FROM AT THE BOTTOM, THE, UH, THE, THE DRIVE THROUGH GATE AT ALONG EDEN STREET UP TO AND APPROACHING, BUT NOT UP ALL THE WAY TO P*****K STREET.
AND THEN TURNING OVER AND ATTACHING TO THE ONE STORY PORTION OF THE BUILDING.
THESE ARE SOME ELEVATIONS, UM, THAT REPRESENT THE PROJECT AS WELL.
UM, SO THE TOP ONE IS THAT, UH, UH, LEFT THE LEFT HAND PORTION OF THE, UM, WALL AND FENCE PROJECT, UM, STARTING FROM THE HOUSE ON THE LEFT ACROSS TO THE EDGE OF THE PAPER ON THE RIGHT, AND THEN CONTINUES ON THE NEXT ROW, UM, TO THE, UH, DRIVE THROUGH FENCE, UH, GATE, SORRY, THERE.
UM, AND THEN THE LOWER LEFT CORNER IS A DETAIL OF SOME OF THE CONSTRUCTION.
UH, AND THEN ON THE RIGHT IS ACTUALLY THE PORTION OF THE FENCE THAT CAN, THAT EXTENDS FROM EDEN STREET OVER TO THE, UH, HOUSE.
YOU CAN SEE ON THE, ON THE TOP ONE AND THE MIDDLE DRAWING, UM, IT INCLUDES TWO, THE PROJECT INCLUDES TWO PEDESTRIAN GATES AS WELL.
SO THESE TWO DRAWINGS REPRESENT, UH, SECTIONS THROUGH THE PROJECT.
UH, THE ONE ON THE LEFT IS WHERE THE WALL IS LOW AND HAS METAL FENCING ON THE TOP.
UH, YOU CAN SEE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT BOTTOM PORTION.
THE CONSTRUCTION IS CONCRETE MASONRY UNITS, UH, AND THEN COVERED WITH THE, UH, THE BRICK, UH, VENEER.
UH, AND THEN THERE'S A CONCRETE CAP BEFORE THE FENCE IS THEN ATTACHED.
ON TOP OF THAT, UH, TO THE RIGHT IS A SIMILAR KIND OF CONSTRUCTION WITH THIS, WITH THE CONCRETE MASONRY UNITS AND THE BRICK, UH, WITH THE CONCRETE CAP AT THE TOP OF THE PIER.
AND THEN, UH, EVERY THIRD PIER, I BELIEVE IT IS, UH, IS A NEW, A NEW LIGHT TO BE IN A DECORATIVE LIGHT TO BE INSTALLED ON THE TOP.
UH, SPEAKING OF LIGHTING, UH, THEY ALSO HAVE A FEW MORE, UM, OTHER LIGHTING FIXTURES IN THIS PROPOSAL, UH, TO UPLIGHT THE BUILDING.
THOSE ARE THE LITTLE ROUND CIRCLES SHOWN, UH, ON THIS DRAWING.
UH, THE BIG OVAL ON THE LEFT SHOWS ALL THE WALL AND ITS LIGHTS.
UM, BUT, UH, THOSE OTHER ONES ARE FOR THE OTHER LIGHTS.
AND, UH, THERE'S, UM, ALSO FIVE MORE LIGHTS ON THE BACK.
SO AT THIS POINT, UM, I'D REQUEST THAT THE FULL PROJECT PACKET, WHICH INCLUDES THE APPLICATION INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, THE COMPLETED ZONING AND INSPECTIONS FORM, AND THE STAFF REPORT TO BE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.
IT'S BEEN ENTERED INTO THE RECORD.
DO WE HAVE TO VOTE ON THAT? SO NEXT, UH, THE APPLICANT CAN COME FORWARD AND CONTINUE, UH, WITH ANY MORE PRESENTATION THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO.
YEAH, WE'LL RECOGNIZE THAT COMMISSIONER PARSONS ALSO JOINED THE MEETING.
UH, GO AHEAD AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND YOUR, UH, NAME'S.
CHRIS BACH, FACILITIES MANAGER AT DRIVE HOUSE.
UM, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE SLIDE THAT SHOWS THE
[00:15:01]
SKETCH OF THE ACTUAL FENCE? THAT ONE? YEP.SO WE'RE PROPOSING TO TAKE DOWN THAT CHAIN LINK FENCE AND PUT UP WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE.
UM, IT'S GONNA BE BRICK, ABOUT TWO AND A HALF, TWO, THREE FEET UP.
THEN THERE'S GONNA BE IRON GOING ACROSS WITH COLUMNS EVERY 16 FEET.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE LIGHTS, LIKE MATT SAID, ABOUT EVERY THREE POSTS.
UM, AND ALSO DOWN LIGHTING IN BETWEEN THERE TO ILLUMINATE THE GROUND.
AS YOU KNOW, IT'S DARK AND DANGEROUS THERE AT NIGHT.
WE'RE TRYING TO JUST BRIGHTEN IT UP, MAKE IT LOOK BETTER.
I BELIEVE IT WOULD ENHANCE TRIUM PALACE AND MAKE NEW BERN LOOK BETTER AS A WHOLE.
AND THOSE LIGHTS ARE ONLY ON THE STREET SIDE OF THE WALL.
AND AS YOU SAW ON THE OTHER WHERE WE ARE TRYING, WE ALREADY HAVE LIGHTING AT THE PALACE BUILDINGS.
WE'RE TRYING TO, WE'RE GONNA GET RID OF WHAT WE HAVE.
IT'S JUST A FLOODLIGHT THAT JUST FLOODS UP ON THE BUILDING, CAST A LOT OF SHADOWS, AND IT'S JUST, THIS DOESN'T LOOK THAT GREAT.
THIS NEW LIGHTING WILL ACTUALLY BE RECESSED IN THE GROUND AND EVENLY FLOOD ALL OF OUR BUILDINGS, JUST BRINGING A BETTER LOOK FROM THE FRONT OF THE PALACE.
UM, ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, OR NICE TOUCH, MA'AM.
IF ANY QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS, ANYONE WHO HAS RECEIVED NOTICE, WHO IS HERE TO PRESENT ANY EVIDENCE, DOES IT APPEAR TO BE COMMISSIONERS ANY DISCUSSION OF THIS? WE'RE WE'RE REALLY COPYING SOMETHING THAT MAY WELL GO BACK TO THE 1950S AS FAR AS WE KNOW.
UM, MR. CHAIR, UH, WE DID SKIP ONE SLIDE.
THAT WAS THE POTENTIAL ISSUES SLIDE.
UH, SO ON THIS ONE, THE COMMISSION, UH, WE POINT OUT THAT THE COMMISSION MUST ADDRESS AND INCLUDE IN THE FINDINGS OF FACT THE UNIQUE CONDITIONS THAT ALLOW THE EXCEPTION FOR A WALL AND FENCE, AND ALSO THE PIERS THAT ARE TALLER THAN THE FOUR FOOT MAXIMUM IN A PRIMARY A, B, C.
ANY COMMENTS ON THAT? ANY CONCERNS? WELL, WE ALWAYS, WE ALWAYS, UH, ENCOURAGE THE REMOVAL OF CHAINING FENCES.
UH, THE PROPOSED, UH, METAL FENCE AND THE MASONRY BASE, UH, COMPLIMENTS EXISTING FENCING, UH, UM, AT THE SITE.
UH, THE ADDITIONAL HEIGHT, UH, THE ADDITIONAL HEIGHT, UH, MAKES SENSE AS FAR AS A SECURITY STANDPOINT.
AND I THINK, UH, THE ADDITIONAL LIGHTING CERTAINLY MEETS THE PRINCIPLES AND THE STANDARDS.
SO, UM, I THINK, I THINK EVERYTHING THAT'S PROPOSED CERTAINLY FITS, UH, WITHIN WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE.
WISE CHOICE, VERY WISE CHOICE, MOLLY, WISE CHOICE.
OH, WITH THAT, IS THERE A MOTION? UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION.
WE FIND THE APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE AND APPROPRIATENESS FOR SIX 13.
SIX 13 P*****K STREET, UH, TO BE NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEWMAN'S CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTIONS 15 DASH FOUR 11 TO 15 DASH 4 29 AT NEW BERN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES BASED ON THE STANDARDS AS LISTED AND STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS WITH THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT, THE APPLICATION IS FOR REMOVAL OF A CHAIN LINK FENCE AND HEDGES TO BE REPLACED WITH A LOW MASONRY WALL AND METAL FENCING THAT, UH, COMPLIMENTS, UH, EXISTING FENCING ON SITE, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE HIGHER THE WALL, THE PROPOSED STANDARDS, UH, THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS MEET THE, THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS AS FAR AS THE EXCEPTION FOR THE HEIGHT OF THE WALL AND THE FENCING.
UH, WE'RE ALLOWING THAT BECAUSE IT MATCHES EXISTING FENCING AND, UH, MASONRY WALLS ON OTHER PORTIONS OF THE PROPERTY.
PLUS IT PROVIDES, UH, ADDED SECURITY TO THE SITE.
THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL HAD REVIEWED THE PROJECT AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
THUS, THE PROJECT IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS AND DOES NOT DIMINISH THE SPECIAL CHARACTER OF NEWMAN'S HISTORIC DISTRICTS, UM, CONDITIONS.
ANY REVISIONS TO THE APPLICATION BEYOND WHAT'S APPROVED IN THE HEARING TONIGHT, UH, WILL BE SUBMITTED TO THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR FOR REVIEW BY STAFF AND THE HPC.
[00:20:01]
ANY EXTERIOR CHANGES, CHANGES IN MATERIALS DESIGN, SO FORTH SHALL BE SUBMITTED TO THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR FOR REVIEW BY, UH, HPC STAFF AND THE HISTORIC, UH, DIS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.CAN I, CAN, CAN I GET A CLARIFICATION ON THE ONE CONDITION WHERE YOU SAID EXTERIOR CHANGES? DID, UH, YES.
THAT EXTERIOR CHANGES, UH, APPROVED IN THE HEARING AROUND DESIGN MATERIALS DETAILS, ANY CHANGES TO THAT WILL BE SUBMITTED TO THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR TO BE REVIEWED BY THE STAFF AND THE HBC.
ALL THOSE IN MAY HAVE A MOTION.
OPPOSED? MOTION TO ISSUE A COA, PLEASE.
UM, I DIDN'T GET THE SECOND ON THE FIRST MOTION NOR THE SECOND MOTION.
I BELIEVE IT WAS GREGORY ON THE SECOND.
YOU READY TO START THE NEXT ONE? YEAH, I JUST WILL MAKE A COMMENT THAT, THAT ANYTHING THAT WAS IN THIS PACKET WAS AVAILABLE FOR REVIEW ON THE WEBSITE IN ADD IN ADVANCE, SHOULD ANYONE IN THE FUTURE WANT TO LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE CONSIDERING, ITS AVAILABLE ON CITY WEBSITE UNDER HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION AGENDAS.
[4.C. 400 E. Front St. – to include a new parking lot and a new accessory structure to screen portable restrooms on a vacant parcel.]
ON TO 400 EAST FRONT UNION POINT PARK.SO THE PROJECT FOR 400 EAST FRONT STREET IS TO INCLUDE A NEW PARKING LOT AND A NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURE TO SCREEN THE PORTABLE RESTROOMS ON A VACANT PARCEL.
UH, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICATION TO BE DETERMINED TO BE COMPLETE.
UH, OWNER'S AUTHORIZATION OF REPRESENTATION HAVE BEEN RECEIVED.
PARKS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR, CARRIE GREEN WARREN HAS BEEN AUTHORIZED TO REPRESENT THE OWNER AND THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR HAS REVIEWED THE APPLICATION AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY, AND THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR HAS REVIEWED THE APPLICATION AND COMMENTED ACCORDINGLY.
UH, SO THE OVERVIEW IS THE APPLICANT IS MS. CARRIE GREEN WARREN, THE DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECREATION.
PROPERTY OWNER IS THE CITY OF BERN.
LOCATION IS 400 EAST FRONT STREET.
THE STATUS OF THE, UH, PROPERTY IS, IT'S A VACANT PARCEL.
UH, THERE ARE NO, UH, NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY OR SAND BECK BOOK DESCRIPTIONS FOR VACANT LOT.
AND, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN IS THE WATERFRONT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
SO HERE WE HAVE THE, UH, AERIAL FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.
UH, AGAIN, CLEARLY A VACANT LOT THAT'S, UH, UH, AXIAL ON THE ROUNDABOUT HERE WITH, UH, BROAD STREET, UH, AND, UH, IS APPROXIMATELY THE SAME WIDTH AS BROAD STREET, UH, EXTENDING ALL THE WAY TO THE RIVER'S EDGE.
UM, ON THIS AREA, WE'VE ADDED THE, UM, APPROXIMATE LOCATION OF THE FISHING PIER, UH, SINCE THAT WAS A QUESTION IN A PREVIOUS MEETING.
UH, THEN, UH, WE HAVE THE SITE PLAN FOR THE PROJECT, UH, SHOWS THE PARKING AREA HERE, UH, COVERING MOST OF THE, OF THE PROPERTY.
UH, AND THEN THE GRAY HATCHED AREA IS THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE TO SHELTER THE, UH, RESTROOMS. THIS IS A FLOOR PLAN OF THE, UH, OF THE SCREENING STRUCTURE.
UM, YOU CAN SEE AT THE TOP THERE'S SOME, UH, SWINGING DOORS, UH, AND THE, AND THE ENTIRE, UH, PROJECT IS, UH, OR BUILDING IS 18 FEET WIDE BY 38 FEET LONG.
UM, THIS IS, UH, A CONCEPTUAL ELEVATION SET OF ELEVATIONS FOR THE PROJECT WITH DIMENSIONS SHOWN.
UM, WE FOUND THAT, UH, THEY'RE NOT TO SCALE, SO WE PROVIDED A QUICK SKETCH OF WHAT THE TWO SCALE, UM, UH, ELEVATIONS WOULD LOOK LIKE FOR THE, FOR THE FRONT, WITH THE DOORS AND THE SIDE THAT'S OPEN, UH, WITH THE LOUVERS.
SO THE OTHER TWO WOULD'VE TO CHANGE AS WELL.
UH, HERE WE HAVE, UH, SOME OF THE CRITICAL, UM, KEY DETAILS, UH, PRIMARILY THAT THE STRUCTURE IS CONSTRUCTED WITH SOME LARGE, UM, UH, POSTS AT THE CORNERS AND IN THE VARIOUS, UH, STRUCTURAL BAYS.
UH, AND HAVE SOME DETAILING AT THE BOTTOM AND THE TOP.
AND THEN THE MOST OF THE SIDING IS I'LL, UH, SAY, UM,
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FIBER CEMENT SIDING, AND MOST OF THE TRIM WORK IS AS WELL.AND THEN WE HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF LOUVERS.
AND THEN ON THE LONG SIDE, YOU CAN NOW SEE, UH, THAT THEY'RE INTENDING TO PROVIDE, UH, METAL STANDING SEAM ROOFING.
AND THEY HAVE, UH, SOME SORT OF, IT LOOKS LIKE DOORS HERE THAT MAY BE THE ACCESS WAYS TO THE RESTROOMS. UH, AND AGAIN, WE WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST THAT THE FULL PROJECT PACKET, WHICH INCLUDES THE APPLICATION INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, THE COMPLETED ZONING AND INSPECTIONS FORM IN THE STAFF REPORT TO BE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD, CONSIDERED ENTERED.
AND AT THIS POINT THEN THE APPLICANT CAN COME FORWARD AND MAKE ANY FURTHER PRESENTATION.
AND I WILL COMMENT YOUR COMMENT ABOUT NOT TO SCALE.
I, I SPEND A GOOD DEAL OF TIME PRINTING OUT, AND IT IS TO SCALE IT JUST VISUALLY, YOU KNOW, IT, IT IS HALF AS HALF AS, UH, HIGH AS IT IS WIDE.
SO IT, IT'S, IT'S JUST THE WAY IT APPEARS.
IT JUST LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN MATT'S UH, GOT ANOTHER PICTURE THERE THAT WE SAW THAT SHOWS A PERSON STANDING THERE.
AND THE OTHER THING IS, THIS IS NOT THE RESTROOMS, WHICH IS INTERESTING TO ME.
THIS IS A, A BUILDING THAT WILL HOUSE, I WON'T CALL THEM PORTABLE RESTROOMS, BUT MOVABLE RESTROOMS THAT WILL COME IN FROM THE SIDE.
SO YEAH, THAT HELPED ME WHEN I FINALLY FIGURED THAT OUT.
SO, UM, A YEAR AGO WHEN WE INSTALLED THE RIVER WALL FISHING PIER, IT WAS MEANT THAT IN THE FUTURE WE WOULD INCLUDE AMENITIES SUCH AS RESTROOM AND PARKING.
AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY IN AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNTY TO BE ABLE TO PLACE THE PIER WHERE WE PLACED IT.
UM, SO WE'RE AT THAT POINT NOW AND THE STRUCTURE WILL HOUSE A RESTROOM, UM, TRAILER TYPE SITUATION.
IT'S VERY NICE AND, UM, ACTUALLY NICER THAN SOME OF OUR PART RESTROOMS THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.
THIS DESIGN WAS MADE TO RESEMBLE OLDER STRUCTURES, KIND OF LIKE A CARRIAGE HOUSE.
UM, AND SO WE WENT IN AND MADE THE CHANGES ON A FEW THINGS YOU GUYS HAD NOTED LAST TIME ABOUT THE BOARD.
AND BATTEN, UH, WE'RE GOING TO STRICTLY GO WITH THAT.
AS FAR AS THE WALL CLADDING, UM, WE WILL NOT HAVE ANY LIGHTING ON THIS STRUCTURE.
THERE'S ALREADY QUITE A BIT OF LIGHTING DOWN THERE.
UM, WE ALSO HAVE LIGHTING ON THE PIER.
UM, AND WHAT WAS THE, OH, THE LANDSCAPING IN THE PARKING AREA THAT IS ON THE PLAN.
THAT WILL BE CREPE, MYRTLES AND ZAAS, WHICH I ADDED INTO THE APPLICATION.
SO COMMISSIONER, JUST ANY COMMENTS ABOUT, UH, SCALE, MASS PROPORTION, TEXTURE DETAILS? THERE WAS A EXTENSIVE LIST OF WHAT THE MATERIALS WILL BE.
IT'S PREDOMINANTLY WOOD EXCEPT FOR THE SIDING.
UM, BUT I BELIEVE YOU'RE WRAPPING THE COLUMNS WITH WOOD.
UM, SO, AND THE LOUVERS WILL BE WOOD.
UM, SO THE PORTABLE BATHROOMS ARE DESIGNED 'CAUSE OF THE LOCATION AND FLOODING OR WHAT WAS, SO IF WE, UM, IF WE NEED TO MOVE 'EM BECAUSE OF SITUATIONS OF HURRICANES OR WHATEVER, WE CAN PULL 'EM OUT.
UM, SO THAT, THAT WAS THE THOUGHT ON THAT.
FOUNDATIONS THERE WERE BASICALLY IT'S ON PEERS, CORRECT? IT'S FOUNDA.
IT'LL BE A FOUNDATION UNDER THE PILINGS THAT, OR THAT YOU CAN SEE SPACED OUT BETWEEN THE OPENINGS.
SO ANY CONCERNS OR COMMENTS? CAN I, CAN I GO BACK TO THE, THE PARKING PICTURE AND THAT'S RIGHT OFF THE CIRCLE? YES.
THAT MIGHT BE INTERESTING TO SEE CARS COMING FROM ALL DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.
IT WOULDN'T BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANOTHER FOUR WAY INTERSECTION.
YEAH, I BET YOU'LL HAVE SOME ACCIDENTS.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT WITHIN OUR PURVIEW.
THAT'S THEIR ONLY STREET ACCESS.
[00:30:01]
I WANT TO KNOW IS, UH, IN THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, THE, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TALKING ABOUT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE OR THIS BEING AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.I WOULD ARGUE THAT WITHOUT GETTING TOO BOGGED DOWN, SEMANTICS, UH, THIS, THIS ISN'T AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
IT JUST, IT'S A PRIMARY STRUCTURE THAT HAPPENS TO ARTICULATE A UTILITARIAN WATERFRONT STRUCTURE.
I MEAN, IT, IT IS, IT IS WHAT IT IS.
I THINK IT REPRESENTS WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT REPRESENT, UH, THE MASS SCALE PROPORTION WITH THE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE ADDITIONAL DRAWINGS.
I, I THINK OF IT IN THE TERMS THAT WHEN YOU GET UP TO THE, I GUESS YOU'D SAY THE CORNICE LINE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ROOF, 13 FEET IS ROUGHLY THE HEIGHT OF THE TOP OF A BASKETBALL GOAL.
SO I THINK IT'S CERTAINLY WITHIN PROPORTION OF WHAT, OF WHAT THE APPLICANT IS TRYING TO DO HERE AT A SIMILAR CONCERN ABOUT IS IT AN ACCESSORY, BUT IT'S REALLY LIKE THE CUB HOUSE, THE BATHROOMS THAT IS WHAT'S ON THE PROPERTY.
BUT THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF, OF THAT PROPERTY.
SO, BUT WE DON'T HAVE SPECIFIC GUIDELINES FOR THAT.
SO WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT DESIGN AS MUCH AS USE.
ANY OTHER CONCERNS? SO THIS IS, THIS IS PORTA POTTY IN THE CAGE? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, MOLLY? IT'S NOT A CAN YOU USE SOME MICROPHONE PLEASE? WE CAN.
IT HAS SINKS WITH RUNNING WATER.
ALL OF THE AMENITIES THAT A REGULAR RESTROOM HAS.
SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE, THE NEW MEDICAL CLINIC THAT'S OUT IN FIVE POINTS, BUT THIS ONE'S GONNA BE SHIELDED AND MORE EXPOSED IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU DELIVER, BUT THEN COVERED MM-HMM
IT'S 100% RV WITHOUT STRUCTURE.
IT'S, SIR, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND COMING TO THE MICROPHONE AND INTRODUCING YOURSELF, PLEASE.
UH, PARKS AND RECREATION, JUST TO CLARIFY, WHAT'S GOING INSIDE OF IS JUST AN RV WITHOUT A LIVING STRUCTURE.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO REALLY DESCRIBE IT.
IF NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, IS THERE A MOTION? UM, DID YOU ASK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT? OH, NO, I DID NOT.
IS THERE ANYONE HERE WHO RECEIVED NOTICE WHO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT? SEEING NO ONE? UH, IS THERE A MOTION? ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO GIVE IT A GO? WE'RE MAKING IT EASY, GUYS.
UH, I MOVE, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE FIND THE APPLICATION FOR, UH, FOR A CERTIFICATE OF, OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR 400 EAST FRONT STREET TO BE NOT IN CONGRESS WITH NEW BURN'S.
CODE OF ORDINANCE SECTIONS 15 DASH FOUR 11 TO 15 DASH 4 29 AND NEW BURN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES.
AND I'D LIKE TO, UH, TO MODIFY THE, THE APPROPRIATE GUIDELINES JUST A BIT.
SO I'M GOING TO, I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH THAT ALONG WITH FINDINGS OF FACT.
UH, AS FAR AS THE APPROPRIATE GUIDELINES, UH, LANDSCAPING, UH, 2.4 0.3, 2.44, 2.4 0.8, UH, I'D, I'D LIKE TO STRIKE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE SINCE I THINK THERE'S CONSENSUS THAT, UH, THIS IS NOT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE FOR PARKING.
2.7 0.5, UH, DESIGN PRINCIPLES, 3.1 0.1 AND 3.1 0.2, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH, WITH OPENINGS.
WALLS, TRIM AND ORNAMENTATION.
UM, THIS IS, UH, INFILL CONSTRUCTION.
APPLY, UH, ROOFS 4.5 0.4, PAINT 5.42 THROUGH 5.4 CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS.
UH, 5.5 0.1 THROUGH FIVE FIVE FINDINGS OF FACT, UH, THE APPLICATION IS FOR A NEW PARKING LOT AND AN INFILL STRUCTURE, UH, ON A VACANT PARCEL IN A WATERFRONT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
THE PROPOSED DESIGN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS MEET THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.
ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND CHIEF BUILDING OFFICER, HAVE YOU REVIEWED THE PROJECT
[00:35:01]
AND MADE APPROPRIATE COMMENTS? UH, THUS THE PROJECT IS NOT IN CONGRESS WITH THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS AND DOES NOT DIMINISH THE SPECIAL CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.TWO CONDITIONS, UH, REVISIONS TO THE APPLICATION THAT HAVE THAT ARE APPROVED IN THIS HEARING.
ANY CHANGES, UH, WILL BE SUBMITTED TO THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR FOR STAFF REVIEW AND POTENTIAL HPC REVIEW.
ANY EXTERIOR CHANGES, UM, APPROVED IN THIS HEARING RELATED TO DESIGN MATERIALS.
DETAILS DURING CONSTRUCTION WILL BE SUBMITTED TO THE HPC ADMINISTRATOR FOR STAFF REVIEW, POTENTIAL HPC REVIEW, UH, PRIOR TO ANY CONSTRUCTION OR PRIOR TO THE FINAL INSPECTION BY THE CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR.
ANY OPPOSED? MOTION TO ISSUE A COA.
YOU HAVE YOUR COA SO GOOD LUCK.
AND THE SECOND WAS TIM, RIGHT? MM-HMM
[5.A. Information on Historic District Design Principles and Standards Update ]
BUSINESS INFORMATION ON HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS UPDATE.WE HAVE MADE A GREAT DEAL OF PROGRESS ON A DRAFT THANKS TO COMMISSIONER THOMPSON.
AND WE ARE PROBABLY GONNA BE RELEASING SOMETHING THAT THE PUBLIC COULD LOOK AT WITHIN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO, PROBABLY TWO.
UH, SO WITH THAT, UH, THERE WILL BE CHANGES, BUT EVERYONE WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THEM, DISCUSS THEM, LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK, AND WE'LL ALSO GIVE SOME RATIONALE FOR SOME OF THE THINGS WE THINK NEED TO BE CHANGED.
[6.A. Additions and Revisions to the Minor Works list: 1. Primary: Add regarding certain Amendments to CoAs for Major Work ]
WE HAVE ADDITIONS AND REVISIONS TO THE MINOR WORKS LIST.IF YOU, YOU HAVE THE SLIDE FOR THAT? YES, WE DO.
SO, UM, AND IT, UM, THESE ARE JUST THE TWO IN RED, UH, THAT WOULD BE ADDED, UH, IN THE SECTION OF THE MINOR WORKS LIST CALLED PRIMARY AREA OF VISUAL CONCERN.
UM, SO THE FIRST ONE, AMENDMENTS TO MINOR C WAYS THAT ARE CONSIDERED MINOR WORK.
UM, THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF, UH, POTENTIAL CONFUSION ABOUT THAT.
SO WE JUST MADE, ADDED THAT TO MAKE SURE IT WAS, UH, NOT CONFUSING ANYMORE.
UH, AND THEN, UH, WE ALREADY HAD THE, THE ONE IN BLACK THERE.
AND THEN THE NEXT ONE IN RED IS AMENDMENTS TO MINOR OR MAJOR COAS THAT EXCHANGE CONGRUOUS MATERIALS WITH CONGRUOUS MATERIALS.
UH, WE CURRENTLY HAVE AN APPLICATION OR A REQUEST FOR THAT RIGHT NOW.
AND, UH, THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WAS IN YOUR PACKET.
THERE WAS LOT OF DISCUSSION BACK AND FORTH.
AND SO THIS, THIS IS PROBABLY CLEARER AND DOESN'T HAVE SOME OF THE CONFUSION THAT MIGHT HAVE GEN BEEN GENERATED WITH THE PREVIOUS PROPOSAL.
UH, DO WE HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THIS? SO THE SECOND, THE SECOND ITEM IN RED, UH, SO THAT RELATES JUST TO THE MATERIALS, NOT THE, NOT THE APPLICATION.
UH, OR I GUESS YOU'D SAY DESIGN OF THE, OF THE MATERIALS JUST YEP.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, UM, IT'S, THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO CHANGE IN WINDOWS.
AND A CHANGE IN WINDOW SIZES, ADDING THREE WINDOWS THAT WEREN'T THERE BEFORE.
AND I GUESS ON AN INFILL PROJECT, IF SOMEONE SAID, I'D LIKE TO DO HARDY BOARD, BUT THEN LATER SAID I'D LIKE TO DO WOOD, THAT WOULD BE ENTIRELY ACCEPTABLE OR VICE VERSA.
SO ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT? IF NOT, WE NEED A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CHANGE TO THE MEYER WORKS LIST.
NOBODY WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION.
UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, UH, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE RESOLUTION AS PROVIDED BY STAFF TO UPDATE THE, UH, MINOR WORKS LIST.
SO THAT, THAT'S EFFECTIVE THEN IMMEDIATELY IF THERE'S SOMETHING PENDING.
[00:40:01]
ALRIGHT.[6.B. Interpretation: 1. Decision on blind, mechanical connections having concealed fasteners for aluminum fencing ]
AND NUMBER TWO, MR. SHELLEY HAD AN INTERPRETATION, HE JUST WOULD LIKE TO ASK FOR COMMENTS ON, CORRECT? CORRECT.UM, SO, UM, ON THE SCREEN WE HAVE THE CURRENT, UM, UH, PRINCIPLES AND GUIDELINES FOR METALS.
UH, AND PARTICULARLY WE'RE ASKING YOUR INPUT OR INTERPRETATION FOR THE TERM AT THE BOTTOM OF 5.3 0.4 REGARDING ALUMINUM FABRICATIONS WITH WELDED JOINTS OR BLIND MECHANICAL CONNECTIONS HAVING CONCEALED FASTENERS.
AND SO I HAVE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, UH, THESE WOULD BE, UH, BLIND, UH, CONCEALED FASTENERS WHERE, UM, YOU CAN SEE THE MEMBERS WHEN THEY MEET TOGETHER, THERE'S NO, UM, EXPOSED FASTENERS.
UH, AND THIS IS ANOTHER ONE, SAME COMPANY, BUT, UH, DIFFERENT DESIGNS ARE AVAILABLE FOR THIS KIND OF THING.
UM, AND, UH, WE HAVE DO HAVE QUITE A FEW OF THESE IN THE, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
UM, AND NOW THIS ONE IS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT APPROACH HERE.
THIS ONE, THEY USE, UM, UH, SOME KIND OF CABLE THROUGH THE MIDDLE OR ROD THROUGH THE MIDDLE TO KEEP THEM ALL TOGETHER.
UH, I BELIEVE THE OTHER ONES MAY HAVE BEEN SNAPPED IN OR SOME KIND OF CONNECTION INTERIOR TO THOSE COLUMNS AND SUCH.
HOWEVER, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IN THE UPPER PICTURE HERE, YOU CAN STILL SEE THEY ARE USING EXPOSED FASTENERS AT POSTS.
UM, ALL THE, UH, PICKETS AND, AND RAILS ARE ALL, UH, WITHOUT EXPOSED FASTENERS.
SO, UM, ALTHOUGH IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT WOULD LOOK LIKE THERE'S NO EXPOSED FASTENERS ON THE PICKETS AND RAILS ON THE BACK.
UM, SO THAT IS SOMETHING WE WEREN'T SURE ABOUT ON THE FIRST TWO EXAMPLES.
'CAUSE THEY ONLY SHOW YOU OF COURSE THE FRONT.
UM, WE HAVE AN EXAMPLE LIKE THIS THAT, UM, HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND I THINK THIS IS, UH, THIS IS FACING THE STREET, UH, ALONG THE SIDEWALK.
UH, SO I THINK THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS INTENDED TO BE AVOIDED WITH OUR LANGUAGE.
BUT AGAIN, LOOKING FOR INTERPRETATIONS FROM YOU GUYS.
UM, THIS IS ALSO IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, WHERE YOU CAN SEE NONE OF THE FASTENERS IN THE PICKETS AND RAILS ARE, ARE, UM, VISIBLE.
UM, HOWEVER, WHEN YOU LOOK AROUND THE CORNER, UM, YOU DO SEE ON THE BACKSIDE, UH, THEY ARE ALL EXPOSED.
UM, AGAIN, INTERPRETATION, PLEAS, UM, THEN WHEN THEY GET TO THE ENDS OF DIFFERENT FENCES I'M TALKING ABOUT.
BUT, UM, SAME ISSUES WHEN THEY GET TO THE POST.
UM, ARE THESE ACCEPTABLE OR NOT? UM, SO BACK AGAIN TO THIS ONE HERE WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT HIDDEN.
I MEAN THEY ARE HIDDEN ON ALL OF EVERYWHERE EXCEPT THE POST.
SO I'M JUST LOOKING FOR AN INTERPRETATION SO THAT WE CAN MOVE ON.
NOW, HAS THIS NEVER COME UP BEFORE? WELL, UH, PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED THAT, UH, I'VE BEEN ADAMANT ABOUT, UH, UH, STICKING TO THE WORD OF THE, OF THE GUIDELINE OR STANDARD.
UM, AND UH, SOME PEOPLE HAVE THEN DECIDED TO CHANGE TO WOOD.
SOME PEOPLE HAVE INSTALLED WHAT LOOKED LIKE, UH, MAYBE ON ONE SIDE THEY WERE HIDDEN ON THE OUTSIDE AND, AND, BUT WE DON'T REALLY GET TO CHECK.
UH, SO, UM, MY QUICK LITTLE UH, UM, PHOTOGRAPHIC SURVEY, UH, WITH THOSE COUPLE OF PHOTOGRAPHS THERE, UM, GIVES YOU KIND OF A, A CROSS SECTION OF THE OPTIONS THAT COULD COME UP AND THE MATERIAL.
IS IT A ALUMINUM, WHAT? THOSE ARE ALL ALUMINUM.
AND I DID, I LEFT OUT THE ONES THAT WERE ACTUALLY WELDED 'CAUSE IT WASN'T REALLY THE ISSUE.
BUT PEOPLE ARE PROVIDING OR, OR PUTTING IN WELDED ALUMINUM, UM, FENCING TOO.
AND LIKE FOR THE, THE, UM, THE PALACE, ALTHOUGH THEIRS WILL BE WELDED, RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW IF IT'LL BE STEEL OR ALUMINUM.
BUT THE SPECIFIC STANDARD TALKS ABOUT ALUMINUM ONLY.
THIS IS WITH REGARD TO ALUMINUM.
'CAUSE IN THE PAST IT HAD BEEN AN ISSUE, I GUESS.
SO, UM, MAYBE JUST CHECKING WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT'S OKAY TO HAVE THEM, UM, ON THE BACK, BUT NOT ON THE FRONT.
UM, ON THE POST, BUT, OR NOT ON THE POSTS.
UM, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF THEY'RE ON THE FRONT.
SO COMMENTS I'D LIKE TO GET, HOW ABOUT AN ARCHITECT?
[00:45:03]
UM, I SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND I STRUGGLE A LITTLE BIT WITH HOW SOME OF THOSE SYSTEMS WORK AND BEING ABLE TO ELIMINATE ALL OF THE VISIBLE CONNECTIONS.UM, THERE'S A FEW SYSTEMS OUT THERE THAT'S A GREAT PICTURE RIGHT THERE THAT YOU'VE GOT THAT'S PRETTY TYPICAL.
UM, BUT HOW DO I THINK WE'D HAVE TO WORD IN? HOW DO WE PUT, HOW DO WE WORD IT THAT CONNECTIONS ARE WELL, LIKE IS TO ALLOW THIS, RIGHT? RIGHT.
I'M SORRY, BUT HIS, HIS CURRENT PROPOSAL IS, IS CHANGES IT TO ALLOW VISIBLE FACTS.
WELL, NO, I I'M JUST ASKING, YOU KNOW, IT SAYS IT IN THE GUIDELINES IN A, IN A VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD, SIMPLE WAY THAT, UM, UH, MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR MANY PEOPLE TO COMPLY WITH THAT.
IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE APPARENTLY.
SO, UM, IS, IS IT, WAS IT INTENDED AT THE BEGINNING AND STILL TODAY, UH, THAT IT'S, UM, COMPLETE, UH, ABSENCE OF, UM, UH, VISIBLE CONNECTIONS? UH, SO, OR IS THERE SOME ROOM FOR, UH, SOME VISIBLE CONNECTIONS, BUT NOT EVERYWHERE? I, I THINK SIMPLY THE QUESTION IS, WHEN YOU SAY BLIND FASTENERS, IS THAT BLIND FROM THE EXTERIOR THAT IS VISIBLE FROM THE, THE PRIMARY PUBLIC VANTAGE POINT? OR IS IT BLIND FASTENERS SUCH THAT THERE ARE NO FASTENERS VISIBLE AT ALL ON THE ALUMINUM FENCE NO MATTER WHAT THE VANTAGE POINT IS? THAT'S THE QUESTION.
HOW SHOULD STAFF INTERPRET THAT AND APPLY THAT GOING FORWARD FOR MINOR COAS? WELL, WE ALL PROBABLY HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION.
SO YOU WANT TO ASK EACH OF US AND WE CAN TELL YOU.
THIS IS, FIRST OF ALL, THIS ISN'T A HEARING, RIGHT? SO, UH, WE WE'RE NOT GONNA VOTE FREE, FREE DISCUSSION.
RIGHT? UH, AND, AND IF YOU'RE 10 FEET AWAY, IS IT THE SAME ISSUE IF YOU'RE RIGHT NEXT TO IT? I THINK THIS, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT STREET VIEW, UH, I THINK THIS IS A CASE WHERE COLOR COMES INTO PLAY AS WELL.
THE, THE EXAMPLE THAT MATT HAS THERE WITH THE CORNER FENCE IS, IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT.
UH, OKAY, YOU GOT TWO EXAMPLES THERE.
YOU'VE GOT ONE THAT WHERE THE BOLT HEADS APPEAR TO MATCH THE COLOR.
THIS SHOT IN GENERAL THAT APPEARS TO BE A, A ALUMINUM OR A STAINLESS RAW METAL VASSER, IT'S GONNA HAVE A LOT DIFFERENT LOOK.
NOW I'M SURE WE COULD PROBABLY FIND EXAMPLES OF SOMEWHERE THAT HAVE A, A TRUE RAW IRON THAT HAS EITHER A, A SCREW OR BOLT SYSTEM OR POSSIBLY EVEN A RIVET SYSTEM, WHICH IS TECHNICALLY AN EXPOSED FASTENER, RIGHT? I THINK IT'S A MATTER OF HOW DO WE WANT IT TO LOOK? SO IS IT, IS IT A VISIBLE EXPOSED FASTENER, MEANING NOT PAINTED? THAT'S WHERE IT GETS TRICKY.
SO MATT, THE ONE, THE ONE PHOTO THAT YOU HAVE HERE, UH, IT'S, IT'S THE FENCE WITH THE FASTENERS ON THE EXTERIOR AND THERE'S FERNS DOWN BELOW.
IS THAT A, IS THAT A PICTURE THAT YOU TOOK LOCALLY? YES.
SO ARE THERE FASTENERS ON THE OTHER SIDE? YES.
SO THIS ONE HAS FASTENERS ON BOTH SIDES? YES.
AND THERE ARE SOME LOCATIONS, UM, THAT HAVE FASTENERS JUST ON ONE SIDE.
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE WHERE FASTENERS ARE ON BOTH.
SO THE ONE SIDE EXAMPLE IS THIS ONE IS THE OUTSIDE AND THEN THIS IS THIS CORNER OF THE SAME FENCE.
AND YOUR PICTURES ARE PROBABLY ALL COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES.
I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE THAT ONE IS.
UH, UH, OH, THAT'S, I BELIEVE THAT'S A HOUSE.
UM, SO, BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL ACROSS THE DISTRICT THAT ARE A MIX OF, UM, MULTI-UNIT RESIDENTIAL AS WELL AS COMMERCIAL USES.
WELL, IF YOU'RE GONNA ALLOW ALUMINUM FENCING, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO ACCEPT ALL THESE VARIANCES, YOU KNOW? WELL, THERE ARE, AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE ARE OPTIONS THAT YOU CAN PURCHASE, UM, AND THAT ARE AVAILABLE OUT THERE.
UM, THAT SOME OF WHICH HAVE MORE AND SOME HAVE LESS FASTENERS.
AND THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR IS APPARENTLY, UH, ONE OF THEIR GOALS IS TO ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR VISUALLY UNAPPEALING EXTERNAL FASTENERS.
AND THEY'RE, ARE THEY EASIER OR HARDER TO GET THAN, I DON'T KNOW.
[00:50:01]
THIS YOU'RE NOT GETTING FEEDBACK FROM? YEAH, I MEAN, THESE, THESE ARE THE ONES I FOUND ON, YOU KNOW, GOOGLE SEARCH.SO I WOULD ASSUME ANYBODY ELSE CAN FIND THEM.
BUT EVEN THIS ONE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT MR. SHELLEY HAS HIGHLIGHTED INCLUDES A VISIBLE FASTENER THAT'S RIGHT AT THE POST.
SO, UH, TO, TO ME THE PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO HAVE, IF THEY'RE GONNA BE EXPOSED FASTENERS, THEY SHOULD BE ON THE INTERIOR OF THE FENCE AND NOT ON THE THE EXTERIOR.
UH, THIS, I, I SEE THIS AS KINDA LIKE THE DILEMMA THAT WE HAD TO SORT OUT WITH STANDING SEA METAL ROOF, ALL OF A SUDDEN.
IT WASN'T A SIMPLE STANDING SEA METAL ROOF.
THERE WERE OTHER, OTHER FLAVORS AND OPTIONS OUT THERE.
UH, WHAT I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT WE DO WITH THIS IS, UH, SO, SO FIRST, MATT, ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A DECISION ON, ON SOMETHING SPECIFIC RIGHT NOW? 'CAUSE WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL YES, UPDATING THE GUIDELINES AND TRY TO DO SOME RESEARCH AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE BEST GUIDANCE IS, WHAT OTHER, UH, SIMILAR PEER CITIES ARE DOING.
UH, THIS COULD BE SOMETHING WHERE WE JUST NEED TO, TO ADD SOME VERY SPECIFIC DETAILS ON WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE AFTER.
IS THERE ANYTHING BEING HELD UP BECAUSE THEY'RE WAITING FOR THIS? YES.
THEY'VE BEEN WAITING A COUPLE WEEKS NOW ALREADY.
AND THEY PROPOSE FASTENERS? YES.
THEY HAVE PROPOSED AN ALUMINUM FENCE THAT, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, MR. SHELLEY, UM, HAS, DOES NOT HAVE FASTENERS ON THE EXTERIOR SIDE OR DOES IT THIS IS THE, THE ONE THAT'S IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH THE SAME, UH, THEY WANT TO DO THE SAME THING, SAME FENCE, BUT I BELIEVE, UH, BUT I BELIEVE THERE THEY DO HAVE THE OPTION TO HAVE IT ONLY ON THE INTERIOR.
'CAUSE IF THEY HAVE TO ALSO MENTION THAT, AND THE FASTENERS WOULD BE THE SAME COLOR AS THE ALUMINUM FENCE THAT'S BEING PROPOSED.
SO THEY HAVE EXISTING, EXISTING FENCE AND THEY'RE ADDING TO NO, IT'S BE TOTALLY NEW FENCING.
ON THE PROPERTY OR CONTIGUOUS? THERE'S NO, NO, NONE OF THE FENCING.
YES, IT'S INTERIOR TO THEIR PROPERTY.
AND THEY DO MATCH COLOR? I THINK SO THEY DO HERE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH IT'S THE SAME COMPANY.
SO, UH, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU JUST ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT BEING INTERIOR TO THE PROPERTY OR NOT, IF THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE TO YOU AS WELL.
FOR EXAMPLE, THIS ONE WITH THE FERNS HERE IS RIGHT ON THE SIDEWALK.
AND IF THEY CAN DO THE, DO WE KNOW IF THEY CAN DO THE FASTENERS ON THE INTERIOR? THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE SUGGESTING AT THE END? YES.
THE PROPOSAL WAS, WAS THIS PHOTOGRAPH HERE? UH, THE, UH, LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY.
THE, THE, THE FENCE COMPANY HAD RESPONDED THAT THEY WANTED TO PUT IN WHAT IS THEY PUT IN HERE AT THIS PROPERTY.
AND THEN THE APPLICANT SAID, WELL, WE WOULD, WE WOULD, UM, RATHER WE WOULD LIKE TO GO WITH ON THE INSIDE.
SO, BUT COLOR MATCHED FASTENERS.
NOBODY MENTIONED COLOR AT THE FASTENERS.
OKAY, SO WELL, THESE, THESE APPEAR TO BE, YEAH, THEY DO APPEAR TO BE BLACK.
SO THERE WOULD BE NO FASTENERS ON THE EXTERIOR.
THERE WOULD BE FASTENERS ON THE INTERIOR WITH COLOR MATCHED FASTENERS.
SO, UM, NO, NONE ON THE EXTERIOR.
DOES THAT INCLUDE AT THE POSTS OR ARE WE JUST TALKING SPINDLES AND RAILS? AT THE MOMENT? IS THE ASSEMBLY AT THE POST BECAUSE IT'S TWO SIDED WITH THE, WITH THE, UM, SCREWS.
SO THEY HAVE TO JUST BE EXPOSED TO ONE SIDE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY DON'T DO YOU KNOW, LIKE THAT, BUT MAYBE THEY DO.
I DON'T, BUT AGAIN, IT'S UP TO YOU TO DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT AS LONG AS THE COLOR OF THE PAINT.
I MEAN, WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE TEDIOUS IF YOU ASK ME.
YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S MY POINT.
ABOUT 10 FEET AWAY, OR I MEAN PRIMARY AREA VERSUS ARE YOU DRIVING BY OR YOU WALKING BY? IT'S GONNA HAVE A, IT'S GONNA BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING IF DRIVE BY.
YOU'RE WALKING BY THINK THAT IF THEIR COLOR MATCHED, THAT'S THE IMPORTANT PART OF MY EYES.
SO, BUT THE SPECIAL, THE SPECIAL CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS PROBABLY NOT HEARD BY EITHER.
HOWEVER, I DO HAVE TO POINT OUT THAT THE GUIDELINES ALREADY SAY SOMETHING.
[00:55:01]
FORGET ALL THAT.WELL, WE CAN, WE DON'T, WE DON'T NEED THAT.
YOU CAN, YOU CAN DO IT WITHOUT CONCEALED.
WELL, WE CAN SAY IN THIS INSTANCE, WHAT'S THAT? WE CAN SAY IN THIS INSTANCE THEY CAN DO IT.
WE, IF WE HAVE AN APPLICATION.
SO JUST, I JUST WANNA BE CLEAR, I THINK WHAT STAFF IS LOOKING FOR IS NOT NECESSARILY AN APPLICATION SPECIFIC DIRECTIVE.
I THINK STAFF IS ASKING FOR YOUR INTERPRETATION SO THAT ALL APPLICATIONS GOING FORWARD BETWEEN NOW AND THE TIMES THAT THE GUIDELINES ARE REVISED, STAFF KNOWS HOW TO APPLY THIS RULE.
IS THIS RULE INTENDED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE NO FASTENERS VISIBLE TO THE PUBLIC ON THE, THE EXTERIOR PORTION OF THE FENCE? OR DOES THIS MEAN NO FASTENERS ARE TO BE VISIBLE AT ALL ON THE POSTS OR THE SPINDLES OR THE RAILS? WELL, HE'S POINTING OUT THAT THE GUIDELINES SAY NONE.
I MEAN, IF THAT, IF THAT'S, IF YOU ASK FOR GUIDANCE AND YOU TELL US THAT THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS, THEN WE CAN'T CHANGE IT.
SO UNLESS THE SENSE OF THIS BODY IS THAT THE UNDERLYING PORTION OF RULE 5.3 0.4 ON THE SCREEN IS A STRICT INTERPRETATION, MEANING BLIND MECHANICAL CONNECTIONS MEANS BLIND MECHANICAL CONNECTIONS ON ANY PORTION OF THE FENCE AT ALL WHATSOEVER.
AND SAY ONE HANDSHAKE, MY INTERPRETATION, I THINK WE CAN DO BETTER.
WE COULD BE MORE LENIENT AND LIT.
WE CAN'T SEE IT FROM FIVE FEET AWAY, 10 FEET AWAY.
IT'S NOT A CRUCIAL HISTORIC THING TAKEN AWAY FROM THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
I THINK PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE FENCES.
THEY WANNA BE ABLE TO PUT 'EM UP AND THIS IS ONE OF THE WAYS THEY ARE INSTALLED.
YEAH, I MEAN YOU ASKED FOR GUIDANCE, BUT THEN YOU PUT US IN A BOX IF WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING FOR WHAT THE GUIDELINES? WELL, SPECIFICALLY, THIS IS A CONVERSATION, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A MEETING.
REMEMBER THAT THIS IS A MEETING, IT'S A MEETING, BUT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE, WE'RE GRADING WHETHER IT'S A COA APPLICATION, THIS IS NOT, THIS IS, WELL THEY HAVE DONE A COA APPLICATION JUST THERE, THERE'S A MINOR APPLICATION THAT'S PENDING.
AND I, AND I TAKE MS. BALE'S POINT, SHE SAID, THIS IS NOT, THIS IS NOT A HEARING WHERE WE'RE MAKING QUASI-JUDICIAL DETERMINATIONS.
BUT I THINK FROM STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE IS WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT GUIDELINES AND WE'RE APPLYING THEM, WE LOOK AT THIS LANGUAGE AND WE TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT MEANS RELATIVE TO THE APPLICATION THAT'S BEFORE US.
AND IF THE DIRECTION FROM THE MAJORITY OF YOU ALL IS BLIND, MECHANICAL CONNECTIONS, HAVING CONCEALED FASTENERS MEANS ON ANY PORTION OF THE FENCE, THEN THAT'S HOW HE'S GOING TO PROCEED WITH THESE APPLICATIONS GOING FORWARD UNLESS THAN UNTIL THE GUIDELINE HAS BEEN REVISED.
AND I THINK HE'S ASKED MAKING SURE THAT A MAJORITY OF YOU ALL ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH WHATEVER THOSE WORDS HAPPEN TO ME.
SO LET'S, LET'S, LET'S WIND BACK A LITTLE BIT.
UH, THE, UM, WHAT YOU'RE DISPLAYING RIGHT NOW, MATT, THAT TOP, THAT TOP PICTURE, I DON'T REMEMBER, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT PROPERTY THAT THAT FENCE COMES FROM.
THAT ONE'S JUST, THAT'S JUSTICE HOUSE ON HE'S
SO IF YOU LOOK AT, IF YOU LOOK AT THESE, THESE OLDER FENCES LIKE THIS, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE SOME FASTENERS TYPICALLY WHERE THE FENCE IS ATTACHED TO THE NEW POST.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S NEVER EVER BEEN ANY, ANY FASTENERS THAT WERE VISIBLE, WHEREAS THE PICKETS AND RAILS HAVE BEEN WELDED.
AND I THINK IN, I, I'D HAVE TO LOOK, BUT IN SOME CASES THE POINTY PIECE,
UH, SPIKE, UH, THAT'S ATTACHED SOMEHOW.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S BY SCREW OR, OR EXACTLY HOW THAT'S ATTACHED, BUT THERE'S PROBABLY SOME KIND OF FASTENER THERE.
SO THAT'S WHY I, I GO BACK TO, UH, A REASONABLE COMPROMISE MIGHT BE NO FASTENERS ON THE STREET SIDE, BUT ALLOW FASTENERS ON THE INTERIOR THAT WOULD ADDRESS VISIBLE BIT OF WHAT GREG IS TALKING ABOUT.
YEAH, I I'D SAY THAT'S A REASONABLE COMPROMISE.
WELL, I THINK THAT'S FINE, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE GUIDELINES SAY.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO WITH THE GUIDELINES UNTIL WE AMEND THEM.
I DON'T THINK WE CAN TELL MR. SHELLEY TO ROCK ON HERE BECAUSE MAYBE SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE WE MIGHT HAVE MOVED IT.
THE GUIDELINE SAYS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
WELL, WHAT IS THE APPLICANT'S ARGUMENT FOR FASTENERS, UH, THAT THERE, UM, FENCE COMPANY CAN'T DO WHAT WE REQUIRE? WELL, I I THINK IT'S MORE NUANCED
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THAN THAT.I THINK THE APPLICANT'S PERSPECTIVE IS YES, WHAT MR. SHELLY SAID.
HE ALSO, I THINK THE APPLICANT WOULD ALSO ARGUE THAT THERE ARE OTHER FENCES IN THE DISTRICT WHERE THERE ARE FASTENERS THAT ARE THERE.
IT'S BLIND ON THE FRONT, ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE FENCE, BUT YOU DO SEE MECHANICAL FASTENERS ON THE BACK, MOST OF WHICH HAVE BEEN PAINT BEEN PAINTED TO ATTEMPT TO CONCEAL IT.
AND IF THE STRUGGLE IN THE GUIDELINES IS CONGRUITY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF A PROPOSED DESIGN IS NOT INCONGRUOUS WITH THE, WITH THE DISTRICT.
WHEN WE HAVE ALL THESE EXAMPLES OF THE DISTRICT THAT HAVE MECHANICAL FASTENERS ON THE INSIDE, IT'S HARD TO SAY THAT WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING IS NOT INC IS YET INCONGRUOUS WITH THE, WITH THE DISTRICT.
THE DISTRICT IS FULL OF NON-COMPLIANT FENCES THAT WERE PUT UP WITHOUT PERMISSION.
AND I THINK THAT FOR SOMEBODY TO SAY, OH, WELL BILLY OVER THERE PUT THIS ONE UP AND HE'S GOT THAT AND HE DIDN'T GET PERMISSION, BUT, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.
I THINK THAT YOU EITHER, EITHER SHOW 'EM THE GUIDELINES TO SAY THAT'S IT AND OR YOU DEFER IT TO US.
BUT THE, THE USING AS A PRECEDENT, SOMETHING THAT WAS PUT UP WITHOUT PERMISSION IS THAT DOESN'T WORK FOR ME.
WELL, CAN WE GET A, JUST A CONSENSUS OF WHAT COMMISSIONER THOMPSON SUGGESTED WHO WOULD BE OPPOSED TO THAT? WELL, IF THEY COME BEFORE US, ARE WE IN A POSITION TO MAKE THIS EXCEPTION OVERRIDE THE GUIDELINES? IT'S ON A ONE TIME BASIS.
WELL, WE DON'T HAVE TO TO YES OR NO, WE DON'T HAVE TO MEET EVERY SINGLE GUIDELINE.
AND WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE WELL, I THINK THE PUBLIC WILL BE DELIGHTED TO KNOW.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO MEET EVERY SINGLE GUIDELINE.
NO, WE LISTEN TO THE PRESENTATION BY THE APPLICANT AND WE ARE PRIMARILY CONSIDERING THE SPECIAL CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
WELL, AS IT SITS NOW, IF IT'S NOT VISIBLE, IT DOESN'T EXIST.
SO NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE IT WOULD CHECK THE BOX WITH GOD.
YEAH, I MEAN WE'RE, WE'RE PART, PART OF THE, PART OF THE THING THAT WE HAVE TO DO WITH THE GUIDELINES IS, IS THERE'S A CERTAIN LEVEL OF DETERMINING THE INTENT AND THE INTERPRETATION.
UH, IS THIS 5 3 4? MAYBE IT COULD BE WORDED A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.
WHAT'S THE INTENT OF CONCEALED FASTENERS? UH, I I WOULD ARGUE THAT IF THE FASTENERS ARE ON THE INTERIOR SIDE OF THE FENCE AND NOT ON THE EXTERIOR, WHILE THEY'RE, THEY ARE CONCEALED FROM THE, FROM THE STREET SIDE, UH, AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO WORK ON FOR THE DIVISIONS THAT WE'RE MAKING.
BUT I, I MEAN, I I WOULD SAY IF, IF, UH, THERE ARE NO EXPOSED FASTENERS ON THE EXTERIOR, THEN WE HAVE CONCEALED THE FASTENERS.
BUT I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, AS, AS THE, AS COMMISSIONER MORRISON IS SAYING, WE NEED TO DO WHAT'S REASONABLE AND MAKES SENSE.
SO, I MEAN, I THEY ARE CONCEALED FROM THE STREET.
SO IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE ACCEPT? SO I'M, I'M SEEING SOME HEAD SHAKE.
I KNOW COMMISSIONER PARSONS IS STRICTLY OPPOSED.
SO, BUT I, I'M JUST LOOKING FOR SHOW HEADS IF PEOPLE ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT MR. MORRISON JUST SAID, OR IF YOU, IF YOU DON'T AGREE, JUST DON'T MOVE RIGHT THIS A MINUTE.
SO THE STAFF CAN HAVE SOME TYPE OF DIRECTION ABOUT WHAT THE MAJORITY OF YOU ALL ARE, HOW YOU ARE INTERPRETING THIS GUY.
SO THE INTERPRETATION IS CONCEALED FROM THE STREET VIEW FASTENER IS CONCEALED FROM STREET VIEW.
BUT, BUT THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, DOES A NAIL HEAD ON A WOODEN FENCE? I MEAN, WHAT THE HELL ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? WELL, THIS IS ONLY ALUMINUM.
IT SAYS SPECIFICALLY ALUMINUM FABRICATIONS.
AND SO WHETHER OR NOT TRUST US, A LOT OF THESE DETAILS ARE BEING LOOKED AT, UH, AS TO HOW DEEP IN THE WEEDS ARE.
UM, BUT WE, WE AS A COMMISSION, THEY WERE ALSO TAXED TO THE PEOPLE THAT BREAK THEY, THAT BREAK THE LAW.
AND IF YOU WILL, IN QUOTES, BREAK THE LAW
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AND THEN WE HAVE TO, WE, WE ARE THE, WE ARE THE ONES, THE FRONT, THE FIRST RESPONDERS TO EXPLAIN TO THEM EXACTLY WHY THEY CAN'T GET WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAS.AND, AND JUST TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT MR. MARON SAID THAT I THINK WE JUST NEED TO CLARIFY FOR THE AUDIENCE WHO MAY BE WATCHING THIS AND, AND THE REPLAY, WE DO REQUIRE APPLICANTS TO COMPLY WITH THE GUIDELINES.
WE ARE A QUASI-JUDICIAL BODY FOR A REASON THAT WHEN AN APPLICATION COMES BEFORE THIS BODY, YOU STRUGGLE WITH HOW TO APPLY THESE WORDS, WHAT THESE WORDS MEAN IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED AND INTERPRETING THE GUIDELINES AND APPLYING THEM TO THE PROJECTS THAT ARE BROUGHT BEFORE YOU.
SO I, I JUST WANT EVERYBODY TO BE CLEAR, UM, TODAY AND DAYS GOING FORWARD THAT THE EXPECTATION OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF NEW BERN IS THAT PEOPLE MEET THE GUIDELINES AND WE HAVE CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS SO THAT WE CAN INTERPRET THE GUIDELINES FAIRLY AND CONSISTENTLY SO THAT THERE IS, UM, CONTINUITY ACROSS THE DISTRICT.
YEAH, JAMIE, I COMPLETELY AGREE.
WE, WE COULD, WE COULD SPEND YEARS WORKING ON THE PERFECT SET OF GUIDELINES AND THEN WITHIN A MONTH SOMETHING COMES ALONG THAT DOESN'T EXACTLY FIT
IT'S BEEN LESS THAN AN HOUR SINCE WE, WE, WE'VE KNOT IN NODDED FOR THE PALACE.
UH, YOU KNOW, WE SAID THAT THE GUIDELINES DON'T APPLY IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.
ANY GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS? SEEING NONE, MS. RU, ANYTHING TO ADD? OKAY.
THANK YOU FOR COMING TO THE MEETING AGAIN.
UH, WITH THAT, DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? SUBMIT.