Jun 17, 2026 Historic Preservation Commission

I DON'T KNOW OF ANY ADJUSTMENTS

[2. ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA ]

TO THE AGENDA.

DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, WAIT THEN? NO.

NO.

WHAT? THE AGENDA THAT CAME OUT THIS AFTERNOON? YES.

THE ONE THAT CAME OUT THIS, I, I ADJUSTED EVERYTHING ON THE POWERPOINT TOO.

UH, WANT TO APPROVE A SET OF MINUTES THAT IS IN YOUR PACKET, AND IT'S THE MEETING OF MAY 20TH, WHICH WAS THE ONE LAST MONTH, MAY, 2026.

AND WE DO,

[3. CONSENT AGENDA ]

I HAD MADE SOME ADJUSTMENTS THAT MR. SHELLEY INCORPORATED.

WE ARE GONNA TALK NEXT ABOUT OLD BUSINESS, WHICH IS THE INFORMATION ON HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS UPDATE.

UH, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? THE ONE YOU'VE GOT HERE? SO THE, THE ONE THAT WAS HERE, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE CURRENT, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE REVISED ONE, CORRECT.

IS THAT CORRECT, MIKE? YES.

ONE THAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU.

THERE'S NO CORRECTIONS.

IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE? SO MOVED.

SECOND.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

AYE.

A MINUTES ARE APPROVED.

WE HAVE NO, UH, HEARINGS ON CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATE TONIGHT, BECAUSE THERE WERE NONE SUBMITTED.

AND SO WE ARE NOT GONNA BE HAVING A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING PER SE.

UM,

[5.A. Information on Historic District Design Principles and Standards Update ]

THANKS TO COMMISSIONER THOMPSON.

ON MONDAY MORNING, WE GOT A FULL COPY, UM, OF THE LATEST DRAFT FOR THOSE STANDARDS UPDATES.

IT'S A NEW SET OF STANDARDS, UH, DIFFERENT THAN THE CURRENT ONES IN SOME RESPECTS, BUT VERY SIMILAR THAN OTHERS.

SO FOR MANY MONTHS WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THESE UPDATES TO THE PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

WHAT WE DID WAS WE REVIEWED OTHER CITY STANDARDS.

WE STUDIED NATIONAL PARK SERVICE DOCUMENTS.

WE STUDIED THE RESULTS OF THE PUBLIC SURVEY CONDUCTED IN NOVEMBER, AND WE USED OUR OWN EXPERIENCE IN DEALING WITH REQUESTS OVER THE YEARS FOR MODIFICATIONS AND INFILL IN NEWBURN.

THE DRAFT IS FOR TEXT RESULTING FROM THAT EFFORT, BUT NOT THE GRAPHICS OR FINAL APPEARANCE OF OUR DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS UPDATE.

ONCE THE PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS ARE APPROVED IN THE TEXT, THE DOCUMENT WILL BE FORMATTED AND RECAST BY A FIRM VERSED IN LAND USE DOCUMENTS WITH MORE GRAPHICS, MORE LINKS FOR ELECTRONIC VIEWING, AND WILL BE PREPARED FOR FINAL APPROVAL.

MATT, IF YOU PUT UP THOSE TWO EXAMPLES I SENT YOU ON THE SCREEN, AND THERE WERE JUST TWO THAT WE THOUGHT WERE PARTICULARLY INTERESTING, MORE VISUAL THAN OURS, NICER LAYOUT, ALL THOSE LAKES ON THE RIGHT ARE CLICKABLE.

UH, AND SO THAT'S KIND OF THE DIRECTION WE'RE HEADED, AS OPPOSED TO SIMPLY A BOOK AS WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

BUT THAT WAS DONE IN 2017, AND AT THE TIME THAT WAS, THAT WAS PRETTY GOOD.

SO GIVEN THAT WE WILL BE TURNING IT OVER TO A, A LAND USE, UH, ORGANIZATION THAT IS ADVERSE, ADVERSE, EXCUSE ME, ADVERSE IN DOING THIS, UM, THERE'S A SECOND IMAGE AS WELL.

EXCUSE HEARING PUBLIC MEETING.

SO THE IDEA IS A PICTURE, BUT THEN PUT ALL THE STANDARDS NEXT TO THAT.

AND IT'S ALWAYS GONNA START WITH THE PRINCIPLES DOCUMENT WHERE IT EXPLAINS THE PRINCIPLES FOR THAT, THAT COMPONENT, AND THEN TALK ABOUT THE STANDARDS.

SO WE HOPE THAT'LL MAKE IT A LITTLE EASIER TO USE BY HAVING A GOOD INDEX.

YOU CAN GO RIGHT TO THE THINGS YOU'RE INTERESTED IN.

THE DRAFT FOR THE TAX WILL BE RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

WE'LL DO THAT THROUGH THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES WEBSITE.

AND YOU WILL BE SEEING WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS NOT A FINAL DOCUMENT.

IT IS A DRAFT.

AND SO ON JULY 7TH, THERE WILL BE A PUBLIC HEARING.

YOU'LL GET NOTIFICATION OR SEE NOTIFICATIONS OF THAT, WHERE WE WILL BE LOOKING FOR PUBLIC INPUT ON THAT DOCUMENT.

UH, IT'LL BE AT FIVE 30 IN THIS ROOM, AND YOU'LL, THAT WILL BE ANNOUNCED FORMALLY TOMORROW.

AND I BELIEVE THE NOTICES ARE ALREADY IN PROCESS.

AND I BELIEVE THAT'S A PUBLIC MEETING,

[00:05:01]

PUBLIC MEETING.

UH, AND SO THE COMMISSIONERS RECEIVED THIS MONDAY AFTERNOON, SO IN MANY CASES THEY HAVE JUST STARTED TO LOOK AT IT.

WE DID HAVE HERE MEETINGS WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT CONSENSUS ON DIFFERENT IDEAS.

AND, UH, I'D LIKE THEM TO START LOOKING THROUGH THIS.

GIVE ME ANY COMMENTS IF YOU WOULD EMAIL ME COMMENTS ON IT BY MONDAY, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

AND WE'LL START, UH, GATHERING ANY COMMENTS PEOPLE HAVE FOR MODIFICATIONS TO THE DOCUMENT OR QUESTIONS OR, UH, SOMETHING YOU SEE THAT YOU DON'T RECALL US DISCUSSING IN THERE.

THERE'S A FEW SECTIONS IN RED THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY THE ONLY THINGS THAT CHANGE, BUT I THOUGHT IF YOU CONSIDER LOOKING AT THOSE, UH, WE, WE COME UP WITH A NEW, BASICALLY A DEFINITION OF SOMETHING, A REPAIR BEING NOT TECHNICALLY FEASIBLE.

AND WE DO UNDERSTAND THAT REPAIR IS ALWAYS THE BEST ALTERNATIVE FOR HISTORIC FABRIC, BUT IN SOME CASES, REPAIR IS JUST NOT ALLOWABLE.

SO WE ARE STARTING TO CONSIDER THAT.

IT'LL HAVE TO REQUIRE HEARING WITH THE APPLICANT, PRESENTING EVIDENCE OF WHAT THE TECHNICAL INFEASIBILITY IS, AND THEN WE'LL GO FROM THERE WITH, UH, OUR STANDARDS.

CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS ARE GONNA BE ALLOWED ON ALL NEW ADDITIONS AND, BUT CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS SHOULD VISUALLY EMULATE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF EXISTING HISTORIC FABRIC.

THEY MUST BE APPROPRIATELY, PROPORTIONALLY USED IN TRADITIONAL WAYS AND IN INSTALLED IN A TRADITIONAL MANNER.

MUCH AS WE HAVE ASKED FOR INFILL AS WELL, THAT THEY WOULD STILL LOOK LIKE THEY WERE CREATED IN THE OLD, UH, HISTORIC WAY.

INTERESTING.

ASPHALT SHINGLES ARE STILL AN OPTION FOR CONTRIBUTING IN ALL STRUCTURES, BUT WE HAVE REMOVED THE IDEA OF A DARKER PALETTE.

PEOPLE HAVE OFTEN WANTED A DIFFERENT COLOR ROOF, AND WE DO ALLOW THAT FOR STEEL ROOFS.

SO, UH, WE'RE MAKING THAT CONSISTENT WITH THAT COMPOSITE MATERIALS FOR NEW DECK FLOORING.

UH, BUT DECKS, NOT FORS ARE GONNA BE ALLOWED.

AND THEN CHAPTER FIVE IS NOW A DIFFERENT FOCUS, WHICH IS ON PROJECT PLANNING AND BEST PRACTICES FOR MATERIALS WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR PAINT, YOUR WOOD, YOUR ET CETERA, AND WHY YOU WOULD USE THAT PRODUCT AS WELL AS HOW TO TAKE CARE OF IT AND, AND THE ISSUES YOU MIGHT HAVE IN USING IT ON YOUR PROJECT.

UH, WE'VE ADDED INFORMATION WHICH HAS GOT CLEARER INFORMATION AND PRINCIPLES ON PAINT AND SEALERS AND CARE AND USE COLAR CLARIFICATION OF CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS USED IS INCLUDING SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH MAY BE CONSIDERED FOR USE OF CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS.

AND WE HAVE A CHART THAT I THINK YOU'LL FIND VERY HELPFUL.

THAT IS AN AID FOR GUIDANCE ON MATERIALS FOR CONTRIBUTING NEW ADDITIONS AND INFILLS.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR CHART, YOUR LINE, LOOK OVER AND YOU SEE THE PROJECT YOU WANT TO DO, WHETHER IT'S DOORS, WINDOWS, ET CETERA, PORCHES, AND IT'LL POINT YOU NOT ONLY TO A SNAPSHOT OF THE MATERIALS THAT WOULD BE PERMITTED, BUT ALSO WHERE TO LOOK FOR THAT.

CHAPTER SIX IS NOW A GUIDE FOR PRESERVATION AND MAINTENANCE OF MATERIALS FOR SOMEONE THAT ALREADY HAS A HISTORIC PROPERTY AND HOW TO BEST CARE FOR THAT.

AND THEN CHAPTER SEVEN ONLY HAS A FEW NEW DEFINITIONS OF THINGS THAT HAVE COME UP OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS THAT WE WANTED TO ADDRESS IN THERE.

BY NO MEANS IS THIS THE END, BUT I DO WANT TO, UH, GET THE CONSENSUS OF THE COMMISSIONERS WHO ARE HERE.

WE DO HAVE A QUORUM.

WE LEFT THE JUNE 1ST MEETING, UH, WHICH WAS A SPECIAL MEETING TO DISCUSS THE CONSENSUS ON WHERE WE WERE HEADED.

AND I LEFT THAT MEETING WITH ONE UNDERSTANDING, AND TIM LEFT THAT WITH ANOTHER.

SO MY QUESTION IS REALLY INVOLVING SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS FOR NEW ADDITIONS TO CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.

ARE COMPOSITE WINDOWS PERMITTED, OR THEY ARE THE, OR ARE THEY PERMITTED ONLY IN AREAS NOT VISIBLE FROM THE STREET? WOOD OF COURSE, IS ALWAYS PERMITTED, BUT CAN I ASK, MR. CHAIRMAN IS MY, WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT IT, THE CONSENSUS WAS FOR NEW ADDITIONS, ONCE CONSTRUCTED FROM THIS POINT FORWARD, THAT CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS WOULD BE ALLOWED ON ALL, ALL FACES AS LONG AS IT IS VISUALLY EMULATING.

EMULATING, THANK YOU.

THAT TERM.

UM, THAT IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE HIDDEN FROM THE STREET, BUT IT WAS A NEW ADDITION.

AS SEVERAL PRESERVATION BRIEF.

AND THAT HELPED TO, TO TO

[00:10:01]

I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT TRYING TO PUT PARITY WITHIN Y YES.

BUT I THINK IT ALSO THEN GOES ALONG WITH THE PRESERVATION BRIEF THAT SAY THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF A, A DIFFERENCE, A BREAK BETWEEN THE NEW ADDITIONS AND THE, AND THE, AND THE, UM, CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

AND I THINK THAT DOES THAT TO IDENTIFY THE NEW ADDITION FROM THE OLD.

CURRENTLY ALL WE REQUIRE IS THE BUILDING, THE ADDITION BE OFFSET A FEW INCHES AS IT GOES OUT THE BACK OR THE SIDE.

UH, COMMISSIONER SCHMID, DO YOU, HOW DO YOU RECALL THAT? OR WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR OPINION? ? UM, YOU KNOW, I, I GUESS I LIKED THE IDEA WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT THE CORON AT ONE POINT WHERE, UH, THE ONE CORNER WOULD BE A EXISTING WINDOW AND THEN THE NEW ADDITION WOULD BEGIN.

AND I KIND OF LIKE THE IDEA OF KEEPING, I'M NOT SURE I'D FOLLOW THAT.

JOHN, WHAT WAS THAT AGAIN? UH, WAIT, I COULD DRAW IT FOR YOU.

BUT IF YOU HAVE A, A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE AND YOU HAVE AN ADDITION OUT THE BACK SAY, SO IS IS DO, IS YOUR THOUGHT TO HAVE, UH, CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS ON, ON ALL OF IT OR JUST THE PART THAT FACES AWAY FROM THE STREET? IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING WE WERE DISCUSSING ANY CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS ON ANY PORTIONS OF THAT.

SEE COMMISSIONER OF, OF THE NEW EDITION, PARSONS OF THE NEW EDITION.

NOT AN EXISTING EDITION, BUT A NEW EDITION.

AND I SEE COMMISSIONER PARSONS NODDING YES.

AND I REMEMBER YOU WERE VOCAL AT THE MEETING JUNE 1ST TOO.

DON'T COMMISSIONER.

ALRIGHT, MR. CHAIR.

SO HOW DID MR. CHAIR, WE ALSO HAVE ANOTHER MEMORY DOWN HERE TOO.

DON'T FORGET ABOUT MOLLY .

SORRY.

YEAH, NO, IT'S FINE.

I MUST MOLLY'S HIDING DOWN THERE.

THAT UP HERE, I DON'T FEEL LIKE THE REDHEAD STEPS ON, BUT YOU'RE OKAY WITH.

I'M OKAY WITH THAT.

ALRIGHT, SO HOW DO, SO, SO HOW DO WE, HOW DO YOU WANT THIS TO READ? JUST REMOVE THE STREET HERE.

AND THAT'S THE CHART.

ALRIGHT, SO, SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE, THE TEXT IN RED, RIGHT? YES.

EIGHT FIVE.

IT'S FIVE DASH SEVEN FIVE AND IT'S ON FIVE DASH SIX AS WELL.

SIX.

OH, AND THIS IS WHAT, AND THAT SAME, THE SAME FOR DOORS THEN I ASSUME.

AGAIN, WITH VISUALLY AMBULATING.

SO WE COVERED AN AWFUL LOT AT THAT MEETING.

SO IF NOT PICKING ON TIM, YOU DIDN'T CATCH IT.

I SIX, I ASSUME.

BUT IN GENERAL, IF YOU HAVE INTEREST AND I, I PUT A DOCUMENT TOGETHER THAT WE'LL SHARE PERHAPS IN THE FUTURE.

BUT NOTEWORTHY CHANGES TO ME, WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT ADDITIONS TO CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES MAY USE CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, WHICH VISUALLY EMULATE A HISTORIC MATERIALS.

SECONDLY, REPAIR OF HISTORIC FABRIC IS ALWAYS A DESIRED OUTCOME.

THAT THERE'S SITUATIONS WHEN THE LEVEL OF DETERIORATION MAKES LOCALIZED REPAIRS INFEASIBLE AND ENTIRE FEATURES OR UNITS, UNITS OF HISTORIC MATERIAL MUST BE REPLACED THERE.

CONTEMPORARY MATERIAL WILL BE REVIEWED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

AND THE, THE BASIS WE, WE WILL USE FOR THAT, AND IT DOES APPEAR IN THE UPDATED STANDARDS, IS PRESERVATION 16 BRIEF 16, WHICH IS PUT OUT BY THE PARK SERVICE.

AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT GUIDED US PARTIALLY IN THIS UPDATE.

AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IS GIVE US, I BELIEVE, SIX DIFFERENT SITUATIONS WHERE, WHERE YOU WOULD CONSIDER SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS FOR HISTORIC FABRIC AND, AND THE, IT GOES ON TO TALK ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL MATERIALS.

WHY, WHERE PROBLEMS, NOT PROBLEMS. SO IT WAS, IT WAS A GOOD DOCUMENT AND RATHER THAN JUST KEEP IT TO OURSELVES AND SAY, WE'LL USE THAT LATER, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BEST TO REFERENCE IT IN THERE, SHOW WHAT THE SIX, UH, CONDITIONS ARE.

AND THEN YOU CAN GO LOOK AT PRESERVATION 16 AS WELL.

IT'S ON ONLINE AND WE'LL GIVE YOU A LINK TO THAT TOO.

CONTEMPORARY FLOORING WILL BE USED, MAY BE USED ON NEW DECKS.

UH, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS WE'VE HAD MANY NEW MINOR WORKS INCLUDING, UH, LIGHTING, LANDSCAPING, REAR POOLS, NON HISTORIC ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, DEMOLITION, BULKHEADS, PIERS, PARKING.

GONNA BE A COUPLE MORE TONIGHT.

ALL THOSE WITH THE IDEA OF YOU BEING ABLE TO COME IN TO MATT WITH A PROJECT AND YOU CAN LEAVE SUBJECT TO HIS ASKING QUESTIONS AND MEETING THE STANDARDS.

YOU CAN LEAVE WITH YOUR APPROVAL WITHOUT COMING TO A HEARING.

LANDSCAPING WAS A BIG ONE WE ADDED.

AND, UH, THE EXACT REPLACEMENT IN KIND IS NO LONGER GET IN GETTING INTO WHETHER OR NOT YOUR NEW AIR CONDITIONER UNIT IS 60 INCHES TALL OR 48.

THESE NEED TO BE THAT EXACT AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAINT YOUR EXTERIOR EQUIPMENT.

WE DO ASK YOU TO PAINT

[00:15:01]

PIPING THAT MIGHT BE INSTALLED ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE PROPERTY IN ORDER TO GET TO THAT EQUIPMENT, FREE ON LINES PIPE, UH, ESPECIALLY THOSE VISIBLE FROM FROM THE PRIMARY.

SO, UH, THERE'S WORDS ABOUT THAT.

UH, LANDSCAPING IS FOCUSED ON TREES AND SIGNIFICANT LANDSCAPING, NOT NORMAL PLANTING AND MAINTENANCE OF GARDENS.

UH, MECHANICAL HAND TOOLS MAY BE USED TO REMOVE OR, OR CLEAN SURFACES.

HOWEVER, HIGH PRESSURE BLASTING METHODS WILL DAMAGE HISTORIC FABRIC.

AND SO WE HAVE HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT IN THE PAST.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO HAND SAND, BUT WE DON'T WANT YOU USING BEADS, HIGH PRESSURE BEADS.

AND THEN WHAT YOU'LL SEE IN HERE, THERE'S A NEW DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.

WE'RE PATTERN WE'RE PROPOSING FOR THE GREATER FIVE POINTS TRANSITION PLAN.

AND, AND OTHERS POTENTIALLY IT ENCOMPASSES TRENT COURT AND FIVE POINTS.

AND SO IT COULD BE, COULD BE OTHERS IF THE CITY PROCEEDS THAT IN THAT DIRECTION.

SO IT'S TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE A DIFFERENT WAY OF LOOKING AT HOW PROPERTIES ARE, BUT IT WOULD BE EXCLUSIVE TO THAT ZONE THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING DISCUSSED AND HAS SOME, I GUESS, HAS APPLIED FOR THE GRANT TO GO FORWARD.

AND SO WE'RE WAITING TO HEAR FOR THAT.

WE'RE WAITING STILL TO HEAR.

UM, BUT WE THINK WE'VE GOT SOMETHING IN PLACE THERE THAT WILL RECOGNIZE WHAT LOOKS LIKE A VERY ATTRACTIVE DEVELOPMENT, UH, TO CHANGE WHAT'S AT TRENT COURT RIGHT NOW.

SO THAT'S MY KIND OF QUICK HITS.

SO THE NOTE REALLY CHANGES.

SO ONE SEC.

REMEMBER JOHN, YOUR HOMEWORK WAS TO COME UP WITH THAT TITLE.

YEAH, I'VE GOT A DRAFT, I'VE GOT A DRAFT TITLE.

AND CONSISTENT CONCLUSION ON THINGS AND, AND WHICH PROVIDES ENOUGH GUIDANCE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE FOLLOWING THE DESIGN STANDARDS CORRECT.

AND YOU, THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES WAS ALSO GONNA COME UP WITH THAT FROM THE VENDOR.

REMEMBER YOU WERE GONNA, AND SO WE DON'T NEED THAT.

AND YOU WERE GOING TO LOOK AT LANDSCAPING IN TERMS OF HOW WE COORDINATE WITH THE TREE ORDINANCES ELSEWHERE.

UH, 'CAUSE WE CAN'T IN CONFLICT WITH TREE ORDINANCES.

SO ANY CON, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE ALL HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT, BUT ANY COMMENTS? IT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO YOU RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU PICK THIS UP AND LOOK AT THE INSIDE, THE COVER'S MUCH BETTER .

BUT, UM, THIS IS JUST THE TEXT.

ONCE THE TEXT IS COMPLETED, WE WILL TURN THAT OVER TO A COMPANY THAT IS GOOD AT PUTTING THINGS TOGETHER THAT LOOK NICE.

I, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WANT TO GET A DISCUSSION OF, OF THE NITTY GRITTY NOW, BUT I THINK YOU HAVE SAID THAT IF PEOPLE HAD COMMENTS ON THIS VERSION THAT THEY SHOULD GIVE IT TO YOU BY MONDAY? IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? COMMISSIONERS? IF COMMISSIONERS WOULD GIVE ME YOUR COMMENTS BY MONDAY ON EMAIL, WE'LL START PUTTING THINGS TOGETHER AND, UH, WE'LL GIVE TIM 12 HOURS TO GET THEM ALL POSTED .

BUT AGAIN, I CANNOT TELL YOU THE JOB THAT TIM DID ON THIS.

IT JUST TERRIFIC.

YES, IT'S AWESOME.

UM, I TRIED A FEW ATTEMPTS AT ADDING IN SOMETHING TO THE CURRENT BOXES ON THE, THE PAPERWORK.

AND ALL I GOT WAS THE, THE PRINT JUST SCRUNCHED UP AT THE BOTTOM AND PUT ALL THREE LINES STILL IN THE BOX, BUT NOT READABLE OR, OR YOU HAD A COUPLE BLANK PAGES.

SO WE REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT HE DID AND, UM, IT REALLY DOES LOOK GOOD GIVEN WHAT WE HAD A FEW DAYS AGO BEFORE HE GOT BACK INTO IT.

ANY COMMENTS FROM RICHARD OR JOHN? HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO READ IT? ANYBODY GOT PART OF WAY THROUGH, BUT THEN I'M STARTED TO COLLECT SOME OF MY COMMENTS.

SO MY, YOU KNOW, MY, MY COMMENTS HAVING BEEN THROUGH THIS MULTIPLE TIMES OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY TRIED TO GET EVERYONE TO FOCUS ON WHEN WE DID THE BIG REVISION BACK IN 14, 15, 16 IS WHEN WE CHANGED SOMETHING.

HAD WE CHANGED IT, HAD WE PROVIDED THE CONTENT AND THE CONTENT WHERE FIVE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, THE HPC WOULD HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION, CONTEXT GUIDANCE TO HOPEFULLY MAKE A CONSISTENT DECISION BASED ON OUR INTENT, SINCE WE'VE REALLY TRIED TO DO MORE HERE WITH CONTEMPORARY MATERIAL.

UH, WHICH YEAH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S GONNA BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THAT GOES, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU'RE READING THROUGH THE STUFF ON CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS.

HAVE WE, HAVE WE STRUCTURED THIS? HAVE WE PROVIDED ENOUGH GUIDANCE SO THAT AN HPC FIVE YEARS FROM NOW COULD HOPEFULLY GET TO GET TO A REASONABLE

[00:20:01]

TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AS WELL.

ABOUT THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION AWARDS PROGRAM DRAFT, WHICH YES, COMMISSIONER WIKA HAS WORKED ON.

AND LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD FIVE YEARS, WE HOPE THIS DOCUMENT WILL LAST AT LEAST THAT LONG.

BUT WE CAN ALWAYS MODIFY TEXT.

UH, IF, IF THINGS COME UP AS WE, WE NEED TO, THIS WILL GO FIRST TO THE PUBLIC, THEN TO, UM, OUR ATTORNEY'S GONNA REVIEW IT.

WE'LL HAVE A, THE PUBLIC HEARING, IT'LL EVENTUALLY GO TO PLANNING AND ZONING, AND THEN IT WILL EVENTUALLY GO TO THE ALDERMAN.

EACH HAS A SHOT AT IT, SO THE DOCUMENT WILL CHANGE.

BUT EVEN THE DISCUSSIONS WE HAD, UH, IN DOING THIS, WE'VE ALWAYS HAD ONE THAT SAYS THERE SHOULD BE NO PARKING LOTS ON CORNERS.

NOW, THERE ARE A FEW PARKING LOTS ON CORNERS, ALWAYS HAVE BEEN PROBABLY PREDATED 1982 AND HPC.

BUT WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT WHY IS THAT AND INTERESTING, IT WAS CALLED TO US AS BEING CITY PLANNING 1 0 1 STREET CORNERS DEFINE THE VISUAL CHARACTER OF A BLOCK, A BASIC URBAN DESIGN PRINCIPLE IS TO HAVE STRUCTURES ON CORNERS TO HELP DEFINE THE CHARACTER OF THE INTERIOR OF THE BLOCK.

YOU NEVER REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT.

BUT WE DID GET TO THAT LEVEL OF WHY DID WE DO THIS? AND SO WE'VE ADDED THERE AT LEAST A CON A CONCEPT AS TO WHY SOMETHING'S IN THE, IN THE GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS.

SO I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GO ANY FURTHER ON THIS TONIGHT.

UH, WE NOW DO WANT TO TALK

[6.A. Historic Preservation Awards Program Draft Description ]

CAN PUT PHOTOS IN AND SOME, AND SOME OTHER DETAILS AS, AS YOU SEE FIT FOR A NOMINATION AND THAT YOU NEED A SEPARATE NOMINATION FOR EACH PROJECT.

UM, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

SO AS YOU RECALL, UM, WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS SOME TIME AGO, AND THEN DURING THE PROCESS OF WORKING ON THE, UM, DESIGN STANDARDS, WE HAD KIND OF PUT IT ASIDE A BIT, BUT NOW IT'S, WE'RE READY TO, TO START MOVING FORWARD.

AND AS YOU CALL, WE TALKED ABOUT IT QUITE A BIT.

WE LOOKED AT AWARDS THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE, OTHER HISTORIC COMMUNITIES HAVE AND, AND WHAT THEIR PURPOSE WAS AND HOW THEY ALL WORKED.

UM, WE DRAFTED SOMETHING, GAVE IT TO THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE FOR THEIR COMMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT, UM, WAS APPROPRIATE FOR THE CITY, FOR HPC TO DO THIS WITHIN THE CITY OF NEWBURN.

UM, THEY SAID LOOKS GOOD.

AND SO WE'VE MADE SOME, UM, MODIFICATIONS TO IT.

AND THEN, AS YOU RECALL, LAST FALL IN BOTH THE, UH, CHARETTES AND IN THE SURVEY, IT WAS NOTED THAT SOME KIND OF RECOGNITION, UM, WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

SO I, I THINK THE, I I'D LIKE TO KIND OF WALK THROUGH THE, THE DRAFT, NOT IN REAL DETAIL, BUT IT, IT'S A TWO PAGE.

IT'S A VERY RELATIVELY SHORT DOCUMENT.

IT'S TWO PAGES.

ONE KIND OF TALKS ABOUT THE REASON THE FIRST PAGE TALKS ABOUT THE REASONS FOR HAVING SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

AND THE CONCEPT IS WE ALL RECOGNIZE THAT IN NEW BERN, THE HISTORIC ELEMENT IS SOMETHING THAT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT AND IT MAKES SENSE TO RECOGNIZE THOSE PROPERTIES WHO, UM, PRESERVE THEIR, PUT GOOD TOGETHER PROJECTS THAT HELP PRESERVE THEIR HISTORIC PROPERTIES.

AND SO THERE'S A SECTION ON ELIGIBILITY, A SECTION ON NOMINATIONS, AND THEN A VERY SHORT SECTION ON SELECTION.

THE, THE, UH, ELIGIBILITY IS REALLY WRITTEN TO TRY TO ALLOW A LOT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROJECTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY INN.

IT'S, UH, JUST ENHANCING A HISTORIC PROPERTY WITHIN A HISTORIC DISTRICT IN THE CITY OF NEW BERN.

AND IT CAN BE BOTH RESIDENTIAL OR NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES THAT THE PROJECT WAS COMPLETED WITHIN THE LAST TWO YEARS THAT IT RECEIVED.

AND IT COMPLIED WITH ANY PERMITS, UH, BUILDING PERMITS, COAS, THAT WAS NECESSARY FOR THE PROJECT, THAT IT DEMONSTRATES HISTORIC PROPERTY STEWARDSHIP AND THAT IT SUPPORTS HISTORIC FABRIC.

SO YOU CAN SEE IT'S PRETTY, PRETTY OPEN FOR ALL KINDS OF PROJECTS.

AND THE NOMINATION PROCESS, IT IS BY SUBMISSION OF NOMINATIONS, BUT PRETTY MUCH ANYBODY CAN NOMINATE, YOU CAN EVEN SELF NOMINATE.

THE ONLY RESTRICTION IS THAT SINCE THE HPC IS GIVING THE AWARDS, HPC MEMBERS CAN'T SUBMIT NOMINATIONS, UM, DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THE RIGHT OPTICS FOR PEOPLE ON THE BOARD TO GIVE NOMINATIONS AND THEN REVIEW THOSE NOMINATIONS.

SO THEY ARE, BUT EVERYBODY ELSE PRETTY MUCH CAN, CAN SUBMIT.

AND THE WAY WE ENVISION THIS, THERE WILL BE A NOMINATION FORM THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE, UH, RELATIVELY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

UM, SO YOU'RE, YOU

[00:25:01]

AND THAT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.

AND THEN THAT COMES IN AND THE HPC MEMBERS THEN WILL EVALUATE, DO THE RESEARCH, AND COME UP WITH THE AWARDS.

AND WE'RE THINKING THAT THIS WOULD BE AN ANNUAL AWARD, PROBABLY IN THE FALL, UM, FOLLOWING THE SUMMER.

SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T AROUND THE SUMMER, BUT FALL SEEMS TO BE A GOOD TIME TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS KIND OF PROGRAM.

AND I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PERHAPS BEING ABLE TO START THIS FALL.

I GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ANYBODY HAS ON IT OR MAKE WHATEVER CHANGES YOU MIGHT THINK.

COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, MIKE? UM, YOU MIGHT GO AHEAD.

UH, YOU MIGHT WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IT'S, UH, NOT JUST RESERVED FOR ENTIRE BUILDINGS.

AND, AND, AND IT'S, IT IS IT, LIKE I SAID, WE TRIED TO MAKE IT AS AS ENCOMPASSING AS POSSIBLE.

SO IF SOMEONE HAS, UH, A, A PART OF A BUILDING, UM, ONE PART OF A STRUCTURE, THE LANDSCAPING SIDEWALK, ANYTHING THAT, THAT MEETS THE GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF ENHANCING A HISTORIC PROPERTY, UM, WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR SUBMISSION AND, AND AWARD, WHETHER IT'S RESIDENTIAL OR NON-RESIDENTIAL.

UM, UH, CHURCHES, BUSINESSES, HOMES WOULD ALL BE SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE COULD NOMINATE FOR THIS AWARD.

IT'S A GOOD WAY OF SHOWING THE COMMUNITY THE IMPORTANCE AND, AND ALSO, UM, RECOGNIZING THOSE, THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS WHO HAVE PUT TIME, ENERGY, RESOURCES IN, INTO, UH, INTO PROJECTS THAT BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY.

I THINK ANYTHING ELSE ARE PEOPLE, NO PROPERTIES.

SO, SO IF YOU'VE GOT STEWARDS THAT ARE WORKING TOWARDS NO HELPING PEOPLE WITH MULTI, MULTIPLE PROJECTS, I'M JUST WONDERING ABOUT LIKE, YEAH, WE TALKED CATEGORIES, BUT NO, IT, IT'S NOT ABOUT PEOPLE AND IT'S NOT ABOUT THE CRAFTSMEN, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE DESIGNERS, IT'S REALLY ABOUT THE PROPERTIES, THE PROPERTY.

PROPERTY.

SO THIS PROGRAM IS REALLY INTENDED FOR THE PROPERTIES BASED ON THE PROPERTY OWNER.

UM, THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, ABOUT THE DESIGNERS, ABOUT THE WORKMEN, THE CRAFTSMANSHIP, ALL OF THOSE ARE, ARE NECESSARY PARTS OF A GOOD PROJECT.

BUT THIS IS REALLY JUST FOCUSING ON THE END RESULT, THE PROPERTY AND THE PROPERTY OWNER.

AND THEN ARE WE THINKING THIS IS ANNUAL? THIS IS, IT IS QUARTERLY.

ANNUAL.

AND LIMITED TO ONE OR MULTIPLE, WHAT'S THAT AWARDS THE SAME YEAR, ONE A YEAR OR, OH, NO, NO.

IT COULD BE IT MULTIPLE AWARDS.

IT COULD BE MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE AWARDS.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU DON'T APPRECIATE IT, BUT WE DO APPRECIATE WHAT'S INVOLVED IN GETTING A HISTORIC PROPERTY REHABILITATE, YOU KNOW, AND EVEN IN ON AN INFILL TO WORK WITH US AND TRY TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT COMPLIMENTS THE SPECIAL CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO WE THINK THOSE OF YOU THAT DO IT, AND WE'LL TRY TO, THOSE THAT HAVE DONE EXCEPTIONAL JOBS, AND THEN WE WOULD TRY TO TRY TO PUBLICIZE THAT, GET THAT WORD OUT, SHOWING THOSE.

AND WE'VE, WE HAVE SOME EXAMPLES AND SOME IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO BEST DO THAT.

UM, I THINK AS WE DEVELOP THE PROCESS, WE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW WE DO THE, THE RECOGNITION OF THE AWARD WINNERS TOO.

SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS DRAFT AS A PROGRAM? OR DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I THINK IT'S A GOOD PROGRAM.

I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, MR. CHAIR.

THAT THE, UH, THAT THE COMMISSION, UM, IMPLEMENT THE NEW BERN HISTORIC PRESERVATION AWARD PROGRAM AS OUTLINED AND DISTRIBUTED, UM, BEGINNING IN 2026.

YOU SECOND? SECOND.

SECOND.

ON THE AGENDA IS CHANGES TO THE COA MOTION AND FINDINGS WORKSHEET.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.

[6.B. Changes to the “CoA Motion and Findings Worksheet” ]

AND THIS IS JUST SOMETHING FOR COMMISSIONERS IN-HOUSE.

WE HAVE CHANGED HOW, UH, THE ADMINISTRATOR PRESENTS DATA TO US.

WE NO LONGER GO THROUGH ALL THE 1.1, 0.2, 1.1 0.3.

WE'LL BE TYPICALLY APPROVING MOTIONS THAT REFERENCE HIS, UH, FINDINGS AS OPPOSED TO REPEATING EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID.

SO JUST, THIS IS JUST TO ACCEPT THIS.

WE DON'T HAVE TO APPROVE IT, BUT LET'S PLAY WITH IT, SEE HOW IT WORKS.

OUR OLD ONE WAS MUCH DIFFERENT.

SO THIS IS A NEW, UH, MOTION SHEET THAT WE CAN REFER TO

[00:30:01]

BECAUSE WE WILL NOT ALWAYS AGREE WITH THE ADMINISTRATOR'S FINDINGS, WHICH IS WHY I LIKE THAT SECOND ONE SAYING WITH THE FOLLOWING MODIFICATIONS.

THAT'S GOOD.

THERE CAN BE CONDITIONS TO EACH ONE AS WELL.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S GONNA BE ADOPTED.

THEN, MR. SHELLEY, WE HAVE SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR REVISION TO THE MINOR WORKS LIST.

SO 1, 1, 1 THING BEFORE WE GET THERE, UH, THERE'S ALSO A SHEET, UH, THIS WAS IN MY PACKET, ROBERT ROBERT'S RULES BASICS.

UH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, WE STARTED, WELL, THAT WE, WE'VE HANDED OUT FOR SOME HPC TRAINING.

I, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S STILL HANDED OUT OR NOT, BUT I SUGGESTED THAT WE PROVIDE THIS TO THE COMMISSIONERS JUST TO, JUST TO REALLY, UH, FOCUS ON THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TYPICALLY DOING RELATED TO ROBERT'S RULES, MAKING A MOTION, AMENDING A MOTION, TABLING SOMETHING, UH, POINT OF ORDER, UH, TO TRY TO GET, UH, A HEARING BACK IN LINE.

SO JUST KIND OF THE BASICS HERE.

THERE'S SOMETHING HERE ON, IF WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE A HEARING, WHAT'S REQUIRED THERE, IF WE'RE GONNA TABLE AN ITEM.

SO I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE USEFUL FOR FOLKS, UH, JUST TO KEEP IN THEIR, THEIR NOTEBOOKS AS WE'RE, AS WE'RE WRESTLING WITH SOME OF THESE PROCEDURAL THINGS IN A HEARING.

I APPRECIATE THAT TOO.

UH, WE ARE FORTUNATE TO HAVE OUR ATTORNEY HERE, SO SHE KEEPS US STRAIGHT.

BUT ON THE E EVENINGS, WE'RE NOT WITH THE ATTORNEY.

YOU'LL HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.

SO, MR. SHELLEY,

[6.C. Additions and Revisions to the Minor Works list: ]

DO YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH THE MEYER WORKS SUGGESTIONS? SURE.

SO THE, UH, FIRST ONE IS TO ADD AN ITEM IN PRIMARY HC FOR FLOOD VENTS.

UH, THIS IS ONE THAT, UH, WE SEE COMING UP, UH, IN THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS.

UH, AND, UH, I DON'T THINK WE WANT SEND SOMETHING TO THE HPC FOR HEARING, JUST TO LOOK AT WHERE THE CLUB ENDS ARE GONNA BE PUT.

THAT'S PRETTY CLEARLY STATED, WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE IN THE, UH, GUIDELINES OR IN THE STANDARDS.

SORRY.

UH, THE SECOND ONE IS FOR SECONDARY A, B, C.

SO NOT ON THE FRONT, UH, NOT ON THE PRIMARY.

UM, TO ADD CHANGES IN WINDOW HEIGHT, WIDTH, OR LOCATION FOR INTERIOR COUNTERS WITHOUT VIOLATING VERTICAL OR SQUARE PROPORTIONS.

WE'VE HAD A COUPLE OF THOSE PROJECTS OVER THE YEARS, UH, AND THEY'VE BEEN, UH, VERY SIMPLE, UH, ISSUES THAT HAVE, UM, UH, TAKEN A LOT OF TIME, UH, TO EXPLAIN TO THE APPLICANTS, TO MAKE THEM WAIT, AND THEN ALSO FOR YOU GUYS TO ACTUALLY, UH, UM, DELIBERATE ON SOMETHING IN, IN THREE TO FIVE MINUTES.

SO WHAT, WHAT, WHAT DOES THE, THE LOCATION OF INTERIOR COUNTERS? SO THIS OFTEN OCCURS WITH KITCHENS, UHHUH, , AND PEOPLE ARE DOING, UM, KITCHEN AND, UH, REMODELING ON THE INSIDE, TALKING ABOUT HEIGHT, THE WINDOWS, THEY HAVE TO ELEVATE THE, THE, UM, THE SILL WINDOW, UM, JUST TO, SO THEY DON'T HAVE A WINDOW BEHIND THEIR COUNTER.

I, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT SINCE WE'RE NOT REALLY DOING ANYTHING ON THE INTERIOR LOCATION OF INTERIOR COUNTERS, I, I, I DON'T, I'M NOT, I DO WE NEED THAT.

I MEAN, I THINK CHANGES TO WINDOW HEIGHT WIDTH WITHOUT VIOLATING THE VERTICAL SQUARE PROPORTIONS FOR WHATEVER REASON, COUNTERS, BATHROOM, WHATEVER WITH NECESSITATING IT, DO WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE INTERIOR COUNTERS? THAT'S UP TO YOU.

THE ISSUE HERE IS HE'S MOVING THE WINDOW, SO IT MIGHT MOVE.

THAT WAS A QUESTION I HAD.

SO IT COULD MOVE FROM THIS CORNER TO THAT CORNER.

SO IT DOES INCLUDE THE WORD LOCATION.

UM, IF YOU PREFER, THAT'S PROBLEM, THEN WE CAN REMOVE LOCATION FROM THAT AND JUST MAKE AN ISSUE OF THE WINDOW HEIGHT AND WIDTH.

I THINK WE, REMOVING THE PHRASE FOUR INTERIOR COUNTERS IS WHAT? YES.

I THINK, I THINK PERHAPS BETTER STATED HEIGHT, WIDTH, LOCATION WITHOUT VI VIOLATING, JUST GETTING RID OF FOR INTERIOR COUNTERS FOR ME, FOR ME WORKS.

THERE'S NO PARAMETERS ON THE LOCATION.

YEAH, WELL, MY CHANGES, MY CONCERN IS, MY CONCERN IS THAT WHAT IF SOMEONE COMES IN AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE THESE WINDOWS BEING SO LOW, I WANT 'EM HIGHER.

I DON'T THINK, AS LONG AS THEY DON'T VIOLATE THE RULES OF PROPULSION THAT WELL, IF, IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE CHANGING THE SIZE OF THE WINDOWS, DOESN'T THAT REQUIRE THAT THE WINDOWS SHOULD BE REPLACED? SO TO,

[00:35:01]

SO WHAT I, WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS IS YEAH, YOU HAVE THE INTERIOR COUNTER.

OKAY, YOU GOT, YOU'VE GOT A REASON TO CHANGE THIS WINDOW.

WE, WE GET IT.

VERSUS, WELL, I JUST DON'T LIKE THESE WINDOWS BEING, SO THE SEAL'S BEING SO LOW, SO I WANT TO CHANGE ALL THE SIZES OR, OR EVEN, OH, SO YOU WON'T LET ME REPLACE 'EM BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT, UM, THEY'RE NOT DETERIORATED ENOUGH.

WELL, I WANT TO CHANGE THE SIZE OF 'EM, SO NOW I HAVE TO REPLACE CORRECT.

GEEZ WHIZ.

HOW CONVENIENT , RIGHT? SO, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S, IF IT'S ONE WINDOW AND THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A REASON FOR IT, THAT MAKES SENSE.

BUT IT'S STILL A MINOR WORK.

IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S AN AUTOMATIC APPROVAL.

WELL, BUT THERE WOULDN'T, UM, THERE, OTHER THAN THE, UH, VERTICAL OR SQUARE PROPORTIONS RULE, THERE'S NO OTHER, UH, CRITERIA FOR, UM, THE SIZE OR LOCATION OF THE WINDOW.

WELL, BUT LET'S SAY WHEN WE APPROVE THE ADDITION, AND WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT WINDOW LINING UP WITH THE ONE UPSTAIRS, WHICH OFTEN HAPPENS MM-HMM .

NOW YOU CAN RELOCATE ONE OF THEM, BUT NOT THE OTHER YOU CAN APPLY TO DO IT.

DOESN'T, IM SAYING IT'S NOT AUTOMATIC DOESN'T MEAN THAT, THAT YOU HAVE, IT HAS TO BE GRANTED.

BUT, AND SAME WITH ANY OF THESE.

IT'S AN APPLICATION, EVEN IT'S A MINOR, IT'S STILL AN APPLICATION.

IT'S NOT AN AUTOMATIC DONE DEAL.

SO IF MATT AND HIS INFINITE WISDOM SAYS, YEAH, NO, THIS, THIS DOESN'T APPEAR, I CAN'T APPROVE THIS.

IT HAS TO GO TO THE, TO THE BOARD.

IF IT'S SOMETHING LIKE, YOU TALKED ABOUT TIM OR SOMEONE TALKED ABOUT MOVING IT AROUND THE CORNER OR WHATEVER, IT, IT'S NOT AN AUTOMATIC, IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN APPROVE, BUT YOU'RE NOT OBLIGATED TO APPROVE.

IS THAT NOT CORRECT? UH, I SUPPOSE, YES.

I FEEL BETTER ABOUT THAT BECAUSE, UM, UH, UH, THERE WILL BE CASES WHERE PEOPLE WILL WANT TO DO THINGS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY, UM, APPROPRIATE IN TERMS OF LOCATION OR SIZE OF THE WINDOW.

AND SO THAT WOULD THEN BE UP TO ME OR ANYBODY FOLLOWS ME BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING YEARS NOW TOO.

SURE.

UM, OR IF WE FIND IT'S BEEN A PROBLEM, WE CAN, WE CAN CUT THIS ONE BACK OUT.

I'D LIKE TO MAKE THE POINT THAT JUST BECAUSE WE'RE ADDING TO MEYER WORKS DOESN'T MEAN WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THEM WHEN THEY'RE, THEY'RE TROUBLESOME.

RIGHT? IT DOESN'T, AND IT JUST, IT DOESN'T MEAN APPROVE THAT HAS TO APPROVE IT.

IF YOU'RE AT ALL UNCOMFORTABLE, HE SAYS IT TO US.

SO ARE THERE ANY SUGGESTION NOW, CRAWLSPACE WAS THE THIRD ONE, SO, SO CAN WE GET RID OF INTERIOR COUNTERS? ARE IS, ARE, ARE PEOPLE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT SUGGESTION? I, I THINK THE STRIKEOUT INTERIOR ACCOUNT, AND I KNOW TIM, YOU THE YEAH, THE REASON FOR THE RELOCATION DOESN'T MATTER.

WELL, AS LONG AS WE ALL AGREE ON WHAT THE, GOING BACK TO, AS LONG AS WE AGREE ON WHAT THE INTENT IS.

AND THE INTENT IS NOT JUST TO REPLACE, I WANNA CHANGE ALL THE WINDOWS ON THE HOUSE.

RIGHT? .

WELL, WE GOTTA RELY ON THAT FOR THAT.

IF IT'S A HISTORIC WINDOW, NO, THOSE STANDARDS APPLY.

CRAWL SPACE ACCESS DOORS.

AND THAT'S GENERALLY IN THE CASE OF INFILL, RIGHT? AND SOME OF THE WINDOW ISSUES CHANGES, THEY'RE DOING THEIR CONSTRUCTION.

NUMBER THREE IS JUST THE, UH, TO ADD FOR SECONDARY ALSO, WHICH APPLIES IN THE TERTIARY AS WELL, TO ADD CRAWL SPACE, ACCESS DOORS.

UM, WE HAD, WELL, BECAUSE USUALLY THE, UM, FLOOD VENTING AND, UH, CRAWL SPACE ACCESS DOORS, UM, ARE ACTUALLY IN THE SAME SENTENCE AND ARE STANDARDS.

BUT, UH, YOU DON'T WANT TO, UM, IMPLY THAT THEY'RE OKAY ON THE FRONT OF, OF THE BUILDING.

IT'S CERTAINLY POSSIBLE TO DO IT IF YOU APPROVE IT AS A MAJOR WORK THOUGH.

AND THEN THE FINAL ONE, THAT, THAT APPLIES TO INFILL.

DOES THAT MEAN THAT NUMBER TWO WANT TO APPLY TO MODIFICATIONS? UH, SO YES.

YES, EXACTLY.

SO THEN, UM, UH, WE, LAST TIME WE HAD A SERIES OF, UM, CHANGES TO THE MINOR WORKS LIST THAT INCLUDED A BUNCH OF OTHER CASES FOR AMENDMENTS.

AND IN THIS CASE, THIS IS FOR AMENDMENTS TO INFILL COAS.

AND SINCE WE DIDN'T SAY IT, INFILL COAS THAT CHANGE WINDOW HEIGHT OR WIDTH WITHOUT VIOLATING VERTICAL OR SQUARE PROPORTIONS.

SHOULD WE ADD THE WORD MODIFICATIONS? WELL, SO THIS ONE IS FOR AMENDMENTS.

SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS WHEN SOME THINGS UNDER CONSTRUCTION,

[00:40:02]

UM, THIS WOULD ALLOW THE, UH, ADMINISTRATOR TO APPROVE SOMETHING, UH, UM, MORE QUICKLY.

UH, AND, UH, ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE WHEN THEY'RE MINOR, MINOR ISSUES.

UM, I DON'T HAVE ONE, UH, PENDING ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT I COULD EASILY SEE THAT HAPPENING NOW THE WAY OUR PROCEDURES HAVE BEEN EVOLVING WITH REGARD TO, UM, UH, UH, UM, OUR CONDITIONS ADDING IN THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CHANGES TO THE PROJECT DURING, DURING THE PROCESS, WE'RE MAKING IT CLEAR TO PEOPLE THAT AS THINGS CHANGE DURING CONSTRUCTION, THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO COME BACK TO US.

UM, THOSE ARE STARTING TO HAPPEN.

AND WHEREAS IN THE PAST, I THINK PEOPLE JUST BLEW OVER IT AND PROBABLY HAVE SOME, UH, MISTAKES MADE.

BUT NOW THAT WE'RE, UH, TRYING TO CATCH 'EM, UH, BEFORE THE MA THE MISTAKES WERE MADE.

UM, THIS IS ANOTHER ONE THAT I THINK COULD BE ONE OF THOSE.

ANY COMMENTS ON THAT OR ANY OF THE OTHERS YET? YES, I, I DO I THINKING ABOUT IT, I WANNA GO BACK AND WE TALK ABOUT THE ONE ABOUT THE CHANGES IN WIDTH TYPE LOCATION.

'CAUSE I GUESS I WAS THINKING, MATT, WHEN YOU WERE SAYING THIS, THIS WAS SOMETHING ABOUT ISSUED COAS THAT PEOPLE HAVE DESIGN CHANGES.

THIS IS NOT WHAT THIS IS.

THAT'S RIGHT.

THIS IS FOR ANY CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

THEY WANT TO MODIFY THE WINDOWS IN THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE BASED ON WHATEVER, OR NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

OR NON-CONTRIBUTING.

CONTRIBUTING IS THE ONE THAT I'M MOST CONCERNED ABOUT.

SO BASED ON THIS MINOR, THEY COULD COME IN AND SAY EVERYTHING ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, I'D LIKE, LIKE TO CHANGE.

NOW, OBVIOUSLY, AS, AS THAT'S SOMETHING THAT TIM BROUGHT UP, YOU WOULD SAY, HMM, THAT SEEMS A LITTLE SUSPECT.

LET, LET'S BRING IT THERE.

BUT UNDER SHOULD I CAN SEE IF IT'S A NEW PROJECT WHERE WE DO A COA AND THEN THEY GO OUT AND THEY SAY, OH, WE NEED TO MAKE SOME CHANGES BASED ON, ON WHATEVER ELSE TO A NEW ADDITION OR, OR TO SOMETHING.

I, I GUESS I WANT TO RETHINK, DO WE REALLY WANT TO MAKE THAT A MINOR CHANGING THE LOCATION SIZE OF WINDOWS ON A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE? WELL, NOW YOU'RE, HEY, YOU KNOW, I'M A LITTLE SLOW, BUT I, BUT I I I'M GETTING YOU .

WELL, SUPPOSE SUPPOSE IT SAID AMENDMENTS TO MODIFICATIONS BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE YES.

PROJECTS WE'VE SEEN.

WHICH IS KIND OF WHAT, THE WAY I TOOK THAT WAS REALLY MORE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE SEEN, WE'VE APPROVED AND THEY, FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY SAY, OH, WE KNOW WE NEED, WE NEED TO, TO, TO CHANGE THIS BASED ON CONSTRUCTABILITY OR, OR WHATEVER ELSE.

BUT THEN AS I READ THIS, THIS IS MUCH MORE BROAD.

THIS IS FOR, WITHOUT EVEN HAVING A CA CHANGE THE WINDOWS JUST CHANGE THE WINDOWS.

AND I'M NOT SURE I'M GOOD WITH THAT.

SO THAT'S WHY I ASKED ABOUT MODIFICATIONS I WOULD PREFER IF WE WERE ALREADY DEALING WITH AN APPROVAL.

AND THEN YOU HAD TO MAKE SOME MODIFICATIONS.

WHICH, WHICH IS KIND OF HOW IT CAME UP WITH THIS AMENDMENTS TO THE, TO THE, YEAH.

TO APPROVE COAS.

SO I, I'D LIKE TO RESCIND MY, UM, EARLIER COMMENTS, , AND I THINK BETTER THAT I, I THINK WE JUST TAKE THIS ONE OUT BECAUSE IF WE'RE ALREADY DOING AMENDMENTS TO EXISTING COAS, I, I THINK WE TAKE THIS GUY OUT.

WELL, IT'S JUST INFILLS.

WELL, WE, WE, WHAT WE MAKE IT PERHAPS FOR ONES THAT ARE ANY COAS, ANY COAS AMENDMENTS TO COAS.

SO DELETE NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS ADD CHANGES IN WINDOW HEIGHT FOR INTERIOR COUNTERS.

THAT'S ALREADY GONE.

BUT THEN WE CHANGE NUMBER FOUR, IT SAYS AMENDMENTS TO COAS.

JUST DROP THE WORD INFILL.

SO WE'VE AT LEAST SEEN IT RECENTLY.

OKAY, GOOD.

AND WHATEVER COMMENTS ARE OUT THERE.

GOOD.

BUT, SO WE HAVE, UH, THE LANGUAGE FROM OTHER ONES SAY, UM, AMENDMENTS TO MINOR COAS, UH, THAT ARE CONSIDERED MINOR WORK AMENDMENTS TO MAJOR COAS THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE CONSIDERED MINOR AMENDMENT TO MINOR OR MAJOR COAS THAT EXCHANGED GROSS MATERIALS WITH GROSS MATERIALS.

SO, UM, AND THAT'S ALL IN THE PRIMARY, WHICH WOULD COVER SECONDARY, TERTIARY.

SO THEY WERE SAYING AMENDMENTS TO MINOR OR MAJOR COAS WOULD BE CONSISTENT TO THAT ONE.

BUT YEAH, YOU COULD HAVE TWO DIFFERENT SENTENCES OR YOU COULD PUT 'EM TOGETHER.

YOU WANNA JUST DO THAT NEXT MONTH THEN, OR, UH, YEAH.

CAN I, THERE'S NO PRESSING.

I KNOW WE'VE APPROVED A BUNCH OF THINGS RECENTLY, UM, BUT I HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT I GUESS I DIDN'T CATCH THE FIRST TIME THROUGH.

I HAVE TWO OTHER QUESTIONS IN THE MIND.

LOOKING AT THIS LIST.

[00:45:01]

UM, ONE IS ON, UH, MASONRY REPOINTING THAT'S NOW A, A MINOR IN, IN PRIMARY.

UM, IS IT LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE THAT IF YOU'RE JUST REPOINTING ONE AREA, ONE BRICK, THAT THAT BECOMES REPAIR AND YOU'RE TALKING REALLY ABOUT REPOINTING OF A, OF AN ENTIRE, UM, VERTICAL FACE, A LARGE AREA, YES.

SO THAT COULD BE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO ADD TO THE LANGUAGE YEAH.

COMING UP.

BUT, UM, YES.

I'VE JUST BEEN TELLING PEOPLE EVEN WITH, UH, UH, REPLACEMENT IN KIND VERSUS A REPLACEMENT THAT REQUIRES A COA HAS BEEN MORE OR LESS, UH, REPLACEMENT IN KIND WHEN YOU ARE REPLACING THE END OF TWO OR THREE OF YOUR PIECES OF, OF THE ENDS, OF PIECES OF SIDING, TOP THEM UP.

'CAUSE THEY'RE CHECKED OR, OR SPLIT OR SOMETHING, AND YOU'RE GONNA, IT, IT REMINDS ME A LITTLE BIT OF OUR CONVERSATION ON LANDSCAPING, WHICH WE SAID, YOU KNOW, THE REGULAR LANDSCAPING IS SOMETHING THAT'S MAINTENANCE, IT'S A, YOU KNOW, KIND OF ON THE REPAIR SIDE.

BUT IF YOU'RE GONNA DO MAJOR AS DEFINED, THEN, THEN, THEN YES, THAT WILL REQUIRE A MINOR COA.

RIGHT? AND THIS, THIS SEEMS ALONG THE SAME LINES, IS THAT IF YOU'RE JUST GONNA BE DOING A BRICK THAT'S LOOSE MM-HMM .

BUT IF YOU'RE GONNA BE REDOING SOMETHING OF SIGNIFICANCE, THEN THAT REQUIRES IT.

AND, AND I, I THINK THE LIGHT BULB WENT OFF WHEN WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION SEVERAL, MAYBE A YEAR AGO NOW.

UH, THE WORD WHOLESALE REPLACEMENT, YOU REMEMBER THAT? SO, UM, YES, .

SO SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF WHOLESALE, AS LONG AS THAT'S YOU, YOU'RE COMFORTABLE THAT THIS POINTING THAT THIS DESCRIBES WHAT, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

THEN I ALSO, THE WORD MURALS IS IN THERE.

AND, AND I THINK THAT THE, THE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MINERS, PUBLIC ART ARTIFACTS, MEMORIALS, FOUNTAINS, MURALS ISN'T THE, THE, THE, YOUR REVIEW REALLY JUST TO MAKE SURE THE SURFACE WAS PREVIOUSLY PAINTED.

YOU'RE NOT APPROVING THE MURAL OR THE CONTENT OR THE COLORS OR ANYTHING.

YOU'RE JUST VERIFYING THAT THE SURFACE, IF IT'S BRICK WAS PREVIOUSLY PAINTED.

YES, PRETTY MUCH.

UM, THE, DO, DO WE NEED TO SAY THAT SOMEWHERE IN, IN ALSO THE OTHER, THE OTHER OPTION THOUGH FOR A MURAL IS THAT IT, IF, IF THERE IS AN UNPAINTED BRICK SURFACE, UM, THEY ARE ALLOWED TO MOUNT A FRAME ON BRICK WALL THAT IS STAND NOT BY CANVAS, BUT USUALLY BY METAL OR SOME OTHER MATERIAL, FLAT MATERIAL WHERE THE MURAL, SORRY, SITS IN FRONT WHERE THE MURAL IS APPLIED TO PAINTED, OR IT'S THESE, NOWADAYS THEY PRINT OUT STICKERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, PUT THEM ON THERE STICKERS, UM, AND, UH, ALMOST LIKE A WRAP.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER WAY TO DO A MURAL.

AND OFTENTIMES THEY'RE PANELS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER THING THAT I WOULD BE CHECKING WAS THAT THEY HAVE TO MOUNT THEM INTO THE, UH, MORTAR JOINTS AND NOT INTO THE BRICKS BECAUSE ESPECIALLY FOR THE OLDER BRICKS, UH, THAT WILL, UM, CAUSE THE BRICKS TO DETERIORATE.

DO, DO YOU NEED SOMETHING IN THE DESIGN STANDARDS TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THAT KIND OF A DECISION? WELL, WE ALREADY HAVE THE, SO THAT, THAT BOTH OF THOSE THINGS COME OUT OF THE EXISTING STANDARDS.

SO, UM, NO, I I OKAY.

THE FRAMEWORK GOING INTO THE JOINTS, THE, THE, THE PREVIOUSLY PAINTED, OH, WELL, ACTUALLY, YES.

SO, UM, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

UM, I'VE BEEN USING THAT, UH, FROM THE ONE, UH, STANDARD FOR SIGNS THAT HAVE TO BE MOUNTED TO, INTO THE MORTAR.

AND THAT'S USUALLY BECAUSE THE SIGNS WERE MOUNTED TO THE WALL AND OFTENTIMES THOSE WALLS ARE NOT PAINTED, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

BUT, UM, SO I'VE BEEN USING THAT FOR, UM, EVEN IN CASES OF, UH, UH, OTHER ARTWORK, PEOPLE WANTED TO MOUNT ARTWORK UNDER THEIR BUILDING OR OTHER THINGS ON THEIR BUILDINGS, UM, AWNINGS.

UM, I ALSO ASKED THEM TO MOUNT THEM INTO THE MASONRY, UH, INTO THE MORTAR, NOT INTO THE BRICKS.

YOU'RE PER, YOU'RE QUASI PRESERVING THE BRICK.

NOW, UM, LET ME ASK MR. ARCHITECT, THAT'D BE YOU, PAL.

SO, SO ARE, SO ARE, ARE YOU CONVINCED THAT EVEN WITH THIS OLD LIME MORTAR, THAT A LOT OF THE BUILDINGS HAVE THAT THE LIME MORTAR IS MORE, HAS MORE STRENGTH THAN THE OLD BRICKS? NO.

UM, THE REALITY IS IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE ATTACHING INTO THE MORTAR JOINT,

[00:50:01]

UM, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THE, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, EXPANSION, ANCHOR, THE PRESSURE IS GOING INTO THE BRICK EITHER WAY, YOU'RE, YOU'RE JUST NOT PUTTING A HOLE.

I SEE.

SO, SO THAT HELPS.

THE SIZE OF THE ANCHOR IS PUSHING AGAINST THE BRICKS MORE OR LESS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU GET, I MEAN, WE'VE ALL, WE'VE ALL, YOU KNOW, PUT PAINTINGS OR, OR ARTWORK UP AT THE HOUSE.

I MEAN, EVEN, EVEN A SMALL ANCHOR THAT GOES INTO DRYWALL IS, YOU KNOW, CLOSE TO A QUARTER OF AN INCH.

SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S MORE SIZEABLE, A LOT OF TIMES YOU'RE GONNA NEED AN ANCHOR.

YOU KNOW, LET'S JUST, LET'S JUST USE THIS SCENARIO FOR THAT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MURALS.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO MOUNT A MURAL THAT'S OF ANY SIZE, YOU'RE LIKELY GONNA NEED NUMEROUS.

OH, FOR SURE.

ANCHORS.

AND ESPECIALLY LOADS YOU END UP WITH ANCHORS, WIND LOADS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

YOU END UP WITH ANCHORS THAT ARE LARGER THAN THE MORTAR JOINT.

NOW IF YOU LOCATE THEM CENTERED ON A MORTAR JOINT, YOU'RE HELPING TO PRESERVE THE BRICK RATHER THAN GOING INTO THE CENTER OF THAT BRICK.

I, I FULL, YOU KNOW, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE WITH THAT, BUT THE QUESTION ISN'T QUITE THE RIGHT QUESTION.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? NO, THAT, THAT EXPLANATION HELPS.

IT, IT'S EASIER TO, IT'S EASIER TO DO A REPAIR ON THE LINE ORDER THAN TRY TO REPAIR ALL I, I'VE LOOKED AT A LOT OF LINE MORTAR, MY HOUSE AND OTHER HOUSES, AND A LOT OF IT CAN BE PRETTY CRUMBLY AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA HOLD MUCH.

BUT I UNDERSTAND THE POINT THAT YOUR FASTENER MAY BE WEDGED BETWEEN THE BRICKS, IF YOU WILL.

SO IT'S NOT REALLY, DEPENDING ON THE MORTAR, IT'S REALLY HAS THE WEIGHT AND THE SUPPORT OF, OF THE ENTIRE SURROUNDING BRICKS AND THINGS.

BUT THE MOTOR IS MORE OF A SACRIFICIAL.

BUT IT'S, IT'S BETTER TO, YEAH.

AND IT'S AN EASIER, THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO PUT IT.

IT'S AN EASIER THING TO REPAIR.

WITH ALL OF THAT IN MIND, MATT, DO YOU NEED SOMETHING IN THE STANDARDS THAT YOU CAN POINT TO WHEN SOMEONE TALKS TO YOU ABOUT HANGING SOMETHING OTHER THAN A SIGN IN THE, IN THE MASON? SURE.

THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL BECAUSE I'M JUST RELYING ON THE LOGIC OF ONE LEADING TO THE OTHER.

WE TALK LOGIC , WHAT'S IT? I MEAN IT, UH, THE STANDARDS EVEN SAY IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE BRICK.

BUT IT'S, BUT IT'S CLEAR THOUGH, THE, THE, IN THE MURALS, YOU'RE NOT APPROVING COLORS TYPE OH NO.

WHAT CONTENT IN THE LEASE? NO.

THE SUPREME COURT DOES NOT ALLOW US TO, HOW MANY MURALS ARE HUNG? THE WAY HE DESCRIBED? I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY HERE IN, IN NEWBERG, BUT I'VE HAD NUMEROUS ONES IN OTHER COMMUNITIES.

AND, BUT I THINK ALSO TOO, SINCE WE'RE NOT ALLOWING BRICK TO BE PAINTED, THERE MIGHT BE THOSE WHO WOULD HAVE A SURFACE.

UM, ONE MORE, ONE MORE THING, SORRY, MR. CHAIR.

AND THAT IS BENCHES.

UM, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT STREET SCAPE FURNITURE, I'M ASSUMING BENCHES WOULD FALL INTO THAT AS WELL? MM-HMM .

AND TRASH CANS AND, YES.

I KNOW THERE'S A MOVEMENT OF FOOT TO ADD SOME MORE BENCHES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE COMFORTABLE THAT THAT FALLS UNDER STREET, STREET SCAPE FURNITURE.

AWESOME.

WELL, THERE'S ANOTHER CITY PLAN FOR, I FORGET THE NAME OF IT, BUT ALL THE STREET ITEMS AND BENCHES AND CROSSWALKS AND YEAH.

IT REALLY HASN'T BEEN A MUCH OF A PROBLEM DOWNTOWN.

SO, UM, I'M TALKING TO THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS.

SO THAT, THAT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT STORY, RIGHT? YEAH.

BECAUSE THERE IS NO PLAN FOR THAT .

THAT'S IT.

WE'RE READY TO MOVE ON WITH PUBLIC COMMENTS.

I SEE SOME FOLKS HERE.

DOES ANYONE CHOOSE TO MAKE A COMMENT OR A QUESTION OR SPEAK? UM, SO I'M, I'M SORRY, BEFORE THEY GO ON WHAT YOU COME UP, BUT SO IS THE, IS THE CONCEPT THAT WE'RE GONNA HOLD OFF ON THESE MINOR WORTH CHANGES UNTIL NEXT MEETING AND THEN WE'LL GET THE LANGUAGE SQUARED AWAY AND WE SHOULD HAVE MORE PEOPLE HERE.

AWESOME.

THANK YOU.

UNLESS YOU HAVE ONE, THAT IS FINE.

AND I WOULD PREFER JUST TO DO 'EM ALL AT ONE TIME, UNLESS YOU, UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING PRESSING THAT YOU'RE THINKING YOU WANT TO, UH, SINCE, SINCE WE MODIFY.

SORRY, MR. CHAIR.

WELL, SHE'S, SHE RAISED HER HAND FIRST BACK THERE.

SOMEBODY, IF YOU WANNA SPEAK UP, STATE YOUR NAME, GO TO THE YEAH, IF YOU JUST LET US KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

WHAT DOES THAT STAND FOR PLEASE? CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

UM, I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION AND TWO COMMENTS.

SO I'M BROOKLYN.

I'M WITH LEADERSHIP CRAVEN.

SO, GREAT.

WE'RE JUST SITTING IN, THIS IS MY FIRST TIME COMING TO IN HISTORIC.

I, A LOT OF PEOPLE WENT TO THAT, SO HOPE YOU'RE ENJOYING IT.

YES, YES.

SO THE QUESTION WAS WHAT THE COA,

[00:55:01]

SO, AND THAT COMES FROM A STATE STATUTE MM-HMM .

AND THAT'S WHAT WE ISSUE AFTER WE GO THROUGH THE PROJECT, WE LOOK AT THE PROJECT RELATED TO THE PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

WE MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING, WHICH IS WHERE ONLY CERTAIN PEOPLE CAN SPEAK AND HAVE STANDING.

AND THEN IF WE AGREE, WE PASS A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, OR EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME, TO APPROVE THE PROJECT.

AND THEN WE ALSO ISSUE SEPARATELY A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS THAT GOES TO THE PROPERTY OWNER.

GREAT.

I THINK THAT'S INTERESTING.

SO I GUESS MY TWO COMMENTS WOULD BE, UM, I REALLY ENJOY THE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN, UH, FIXING THE AMBIGUITY AROUND THE LANGUAGE IN TERMS OF, UH, WHAT YOU'RE DEFINING AS A PRECEDENT MOVING FORWARD.

WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU ALREADY HAVE SET BOUNDARIES ON, UM, NOT BEING ABLE TO CHANGE THE, UH, HEIGHT WIDTH OF THE WINDOWS, AND THEN TRYING TO DEFINE THAT IN A MORE STRUCTURED WAY SO THAT THERE'S, UM, AN EASY THING FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO FOLLOW BEHIND YOU.

UM, PARTICULARLY IN TERMS OF THE, THE COUNTERS THAT WERE MENTIONED ON THE INTERIOR, BECAUSE THAT IS VERY AMBIGUOUS LANGUAGE.

IT'S, WELL, IT'S, IT'S A, UM, IT'S A DILEMMA BY HAVING A COMMISSION, , BUT IF WE COULD DEFINE EVERYTHING LIKE ZONING, WE WOULDN'T NEED A COMMISSION.

WE WOULD WALK IN, SAY, HERE IT IS, AND THEY'D SAY, YES, BINGO, GO.

BUT EVERYBODY'S PROJECT IS UNIQUE, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET INTO THESE OLDER PROPERTIES THAT SOME ARE 200 YEARS OLD, SOME ARE, UH, OLDER THAN THAT, SOME ARE BRAND NEW PROJECTS.

SO THE COMMISSION IS HERE TO TRY TO INTERPRET THOSE GUIDELINES BECAUSE SOME THINGS, AS I SAID, DON'T WORK FOR EVERYBODY.

YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO REPAIR SOMETHING OTHER PEOPLE CAN, YOU MAY NOT HAVE THE, UM, OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD WHAT YOU REALLY WANT TO BUILD BECAUSE OF ALL KINDS OF CONDITIONS ABOUT YOUR LOT, EVERYTHING ELSE.

UH, SO WE TRY TO TAKE ALL THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

AND IT'S NOT COOKIE CUTTER.

I MEAN, IT'S, WE TRY TO BE CONSISTENT, BUT WE CAN'T SAY THAT EVERY TIME WE APPROVE SOMETHING, EVERYBODY ELSE CAN GO DO THE SAME THING.

BECAUSE EVERYONE IS CONSIDERED UNIQUELY WHEN THEY COME.

IT IS A HEARING MUCH AS IF YOU GO TO COURT, YOU PRESENT EVIDENCE AND EVERYONE'S SWORN IN AT THOSE HEARINGS.

AND SO IT, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, , BUT THAT'S WHY WE DO HAVE THE GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS USED TO BE CALLED GUIDELINES.

BUT THE STANDARDS TRY TO ESTABLISH WHAT GUIDES US, AND THEN WE HAVE TO PUT OUR THINKING CAPSULE ON AND TRY TO APPLY THE STANDARDS TO YOUR PROJECT.

I MEAN, THE GOAL IS ALWAYS TO TRY TO DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

ARE VERY, VERY PRECISE ABOUT SOME THINGS, BUT THEN WE TRY TO BE AS ACCOMMODATING AS WE CAN TO THE APPLICANT WHILE STILL PRESERVING THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.

I THINK IT'S COMMENDABLE.

SO, UM, THIS SECOND COMMENT I GUESS THAT I WOULD HAVE IS, UM, IN REGARDS TO WHAT YOU WERE JUST DISCUSSING WITH THE BRICK, WHERE THERE'S NOT TECHNICALLY REALLY A ONE SIZE FITS ALL WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, RIGHT.

BUT I KNOW THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE MORTAR, SPECIFICALLY PRESSURE POINTS, ACRES, UM, HOW DOES THAT CONTRIBUTE OR NOT CONTRIBUTE AS QUICKLY TO THE DETERIORATION OF THE BRICK? AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT A BRICK BEING POROUS MATERIAL, IF YOU DID PUT SOMETHING INTO THE MORTAR, IS THAT IT'S STILL GONNA WICKER INTO THE BRICK EVENTUALLY.

AND AGAIN, THIS IS MY FIRST MEETING, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S OTHER RULES TALK ABOUT THIS, BUT JUST IN MY LINE OF THINKING, IS THAT ALSO SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL CONSIDER WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT MAKING CHANGEMENTS OR CHANGES OR AMENDMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WHEN YOU'RE CONSIDERING A COA THAT YOU ISSUE OR NOT ISSUE? UM, ASIDE FROM, IN THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE, IF YOU JUST THINK ABOUT HISTORIC FABRIC, WHICH IS WHAT ALL THIS IS ON THE OLD BUILDINGS, HOW DO WE BEST PROTECT, PRESERVE THE HISTORIC FABRIC ON THAT PROPERTY? AND SO WE GO FROM THERE.

WE, WE CAN'T PROHIBIT EVERYTHING, BUT WE, I MENTIONED HOW WE WENT TO OTHER, UH, CITIES AND LOOKED AT THEIR GUIDELINES.

THERE'S A CITY THAT TELL, EVEN TELLS APPLICANTS WHERE AND HOW MANY NAILS TO PUT IN THEIR FENCE AT WHAT LEVEL ON THE FENCE.

YOU KNOW, SO THERE ARE MANY, MANY PLACES THAT

[01:00:01]

I DON'T KNOW.

YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT? SO ONE, ONE QUESTION.

UM, IS YOUR, DO YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC INTEREST IN HISTORIC PRESERVATION? OH, A LITTLE BIT.

IT'S SLIGHTLY, UM, MORE SO PROBABLY ON THE HISTORICAL SOCIETIES SIDE OF THINGS.

NOT REALLY IN HERE.

OBVIOUSLY WHEN YOU START DEBATING THINGS LIKE INTERPRETATION OF LAWS, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE MY INTEREST.

BUT, AND THE, AND THE REASON I ASK IS, YOU KNOW, WE COULD , IF YOU GET ME A STORY AND I CAN TALK FOR TWO HOURS AND YOU DON'T, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

UM, MATT, MATT, IF YOU, IF YOU WOULD CONTACT MATT, UH, YOU KNOW, MATT, MATT COULD GET ME IN CONTACT WITH YOU.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, ANYONE SITTING UP HERE WOULD BE WILLING TO SIT DOWN AND KIND OF, IF YOU'RE REALLY INTERESTED IN THIS, GIVE YOU THE CONTEXT OF WHAT IT IS WE'RE DOING.

BECAUSE SOMETIMES IT'S NOT REAL OBVIOUS BEYOND, OH, I WANT TO, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO CHANGE A DOOR IN THE HOUSE.

WHAT DO I DO? THERE'S, THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN, THAN THAT.

THERE'S MORE OF A PURPOSE OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD BE GLAD TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU AND GIVE YOU, YOU KNOW, ALL THE INFORMATION, ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS YOU HAVE, AND PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT WHAT WE'RE DOING.

'CAUSE WE ALWAYS LIKE TO, UH, LIKE TO TRY TO GET SOME NEW FOLKS INVOLVED IN THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION HERE IN NEWBURG BECAUSE WE THINK IT'S VITALLY IMPORTANT TO WHAT NEWBURG IS.

YEAH, YEAH.

YOU COULD LOOK TO IT.

OUR GUIDELINES AND RIGHT NOW THE GUIDELINES, THE NEW STANDARDS ARE GONNA BE DIFFERENT, BUT NOT DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT.

BUT, UM, IT'S A DOCUMENT ON THE CITY'S SITE UNDER DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION, AND THEN HISTORIC GUIDELINES UNTIL WE CHANGE THE NAME.

AND THERE'S, THERE'S THE GUIDELINES THAT TELL THAT DEFINE THE, WHAT THE RULES OF PROCEDURE ARE, ARE ALSO OUT THERE THAT DEFINE THE HOW, HOW, HOW TO EXECUTE .

I KNOW BROOKLYN, THERE'S TWO EMPTY SEATS UP HERE.

IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE MAYBE VYING FOR ONE OF THOSE.

HI.

UM, MY NAME'S TESSA REGAN.

UM, TWO QUESTIONS.

YOUR, UM, NEW COMPOSITE MATERIALS ALLOWED FOR NEW DECKS.

IS IT ONLY BRAND NEW DECKS ON, ON HOUSES FOR INSTANCE? OR IS IT, UH, REPLACING EXISTING DECKING MATERIALS ON AN EXISTING DECK? REPLACING EXISTING DECK, I BELIEVE WOULD BE THE NEW MATERIAL.

WELL, I THINK IT'S NOT CLEAR BECAUSE I THINK THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN, IT'S WRITTEN CURRENTLY THAT, WHICH IS A GOOD POINT.

UM, TESSA, IT'S, IT'S CURRENTLY WRITTEN THAT NEW DECKS, NEW DECKS CAN USE IT.

AND IT, IT GOT, WE GOT INTO THAT DISCUSSION, REMEMBER ABOUT EXISTING ADDITIONS AND WE SAID NO.

AND I THINK THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN NOW IS NEW DECKS CAN, UM, BUT THAT'S NOT A BAD IDEA IS, IS TO INCLUDE THE RETRO OF DECKS WITH, UM, CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS.

I LIKE THAT.

I'D BE WILLING TO, TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

AND THERE IS A DISTINCTION FOR DECKS THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE FISH BECAUSE THE DECK IS REQUIRED TO BE STRUCTURALLY SEPARATE FROM THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE.

SO, UM, WE HAVE THAT TECHNICALITY.

SO, SO, SO THOSE SAME, THE SAME PROVISIONS WE HAVE FOR DECKS NOW THAT, THAT HAVE BEEN ADDED FOR NEW DECKS, WE COULD, IF, IF EVERYBODY AGREES, UM, OR A MAJORITY OF US AGREE, WE COULD ALSO DO THAT ON, ON THE RETRO DECKS TOO.

BUT IT ALSO SAYS COMPOSITE DECKING MATERIAL MAY BE CONSIDERED BY THE HPC ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

SO TRUE.

MAYBE NEXT TO MAKE THAT INTO A, SOMETHING THAT'S, AND IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK ON IT'S GUIDELINE 4.6 0.5 DESIGN STANDARDS FOR DECKS, POLES, AND PATIOS.

UH, THIS IS, THIS IS A NEW GUIDELINE.

CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS WERE ALLOWED FOR DECK FLOORING, COMPOSITE MATERIALS FOR BALUSTRADE AND RAILING ARE ALLOWED, BUT CANNOT BE VINYL.

ANY CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS MUST BE, MUST VISUALLY EMULATE WOOD AND BE INSTALLED IN A TRADITIONAL MANNER.

SO, WHICH, WHICH, SO WE'RE NOT SAYING, BUT ISN'T THAT SECTION UNDER, IS IT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT NEW MATERIAL, NEW ADDITIONS, BUT IF, IF THAT'S THE WAY IT IS ON DECKS, THEN, THEN THAT, THAT WOULD COVER.

ON HOW IT'S WORDED AND THE INTERPRETATION, YOU KNOW, IT'S, YOU KNOW.

AND YOU'RE THIS IS THIS IS THE, THE DILEMMA AND THE CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE WHEN WE START, WHEN WE START TRYING TO DEAL WITH CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, IT, DEPENDING ON,

[01:05:01]

AND THEN DOES IT APPLY WAYS TO GO APPLY TO, DOES IT APPLY TO PORCHES? IT DOES NOT APPLY TO PORCH.

IT DOES NOT APPLY TO PORCH.

DOES DOES APPLY TO PORCHES? PORCHES BEING THE, THE, THE PRIMARY IN THE FRONT.

SO THOSE HAVE TO HAVE TO REMAIN WOOD? THAT'S CORRECT.

AND THEN MY SECOND QUESTION IS, WHEN DO YOU THINK THESE NEW, I KNOW THESE GUIDELINES HAVE TO GO THROUGH MULTIPLE DIFFERENT PROCESS PROCESSES, BUT WHEN DO YOU, WHEN IS THE GOAL TO HAVE THEM IN EFFECT? WE REALLY DON'T REMEMBER WHEN THEY'RE APPROVED BY.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT YET.

BECAUSE FIRST WE HAVE TO HEAR WHAT THE COMMENTS ARE.

THEN WE HAVE TO FIND OUT FIRST THE ATTORNEY'S REVIEW.

UH, WE DO HAVE TO SEND IT TO THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE.

WE THEN ALSO HAVE TO TAKE IT TO P AND Z PLANNING AND ZONING, AND THEN THE ALDERMAN.

SO I WOULD SAY CERTAINLY BEFORE FALL.

GREAT.

SAY WHAT YEAR? YEAH, , BUT ALSO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FROM THE MINERS, THAT COULD HAPPEN IMMEDIATELY.

YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE LANDSCAPING BEING A MINOR, THAT, THAT'S ALREADY KIND OF BEEN A MINOR.

UM, BUT THE, BUT THE OVERALL STANDARDS, THAT WILL TAKE SOME TIME.

I JUST WANTED TO KNOW WHETHER TO PUT SOME PROJECTS ON .

IF, IF YOU ASKED, IF YOU ASKED THE DIRECTOR, SHE'D SAY TUESDAY THE ANSWER.

SO IF IT'LL BE DONE IN THE FALL, CAN IT BE NOMINATED FOR THE BOARD? DEPENDING ON WHERE THE NOMINATION PERIOD ENDS UP IN , IT HAS TO BE COMPLETED.

NOT, NOT PERMITTED, BUT THAT'S A GOOD, A GOOD SUGGESTION THAT I THINK, I THINK IT WOULD COVER IT WITH WHAT WE HAVE BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO OPEN UP THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR SUBSTITUTE MATERIALS WHEN YOU PRESENT THE CASE.

YOU KNOW, NOT JUST TO SAY EVERYTHING IS FINE, I THINK.

BUT I THINK OUR POINT'S A GOOD ONE AND ONE THAT I THINK, I THINK WE WOULD AGREE TO THAT.

I THINK WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LANGUAGE SUPPORTS THAT KIND OF A RIGHT.

AND, AND DECKS ARE CURRENTLY MINOR WORK.

I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE.

AND SO IT'S HELPFUL TO KNOW THAT, YEAH.

REPORT, MATT? UM, BASICALLY, UM, WE HAVE THE THREE, UH, UH, WELL, THE TWO COAS WE ISSUED LAST MONTH PLUS, UH, ONE AMENDMENT.

INSTEAD OF IT BEING A JUDGMENT EVERY TIME.

[8. HPC ADMINISTRATOR’S REPORT ]

AND THEN WE HAVE EIGHT, UH, MINORS ON THE LIST.

UM, SIX ARE TO BE ISSUED SOON AND 24.

AND THEN, UM, OTHER ITEMS, UH, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE NO, UH, VIOLATION OF PREVENTION DEMOTION BY MY CLIENT.

THIS HAS RESOLVED THIS PAST MONTH.

UM, BUT THE MAIN THING HERE IS THAT THE HPC, THERE'S TWO HPC MEMBERS WHOSE TERMS ARE EXPIRING.

THEY BOTH ARE ELIGIBLE TO BE RENEWED.

UM, AND SO I BELIEVE BOTH OF 'EM HAVE ALREADY TALKED TO THEIR, UH, RESPECTIVE ALDERMAN.

SO, UM, AND AT LEAST JUAN HAS SAID THAT THEY WOULD BE APPOINT REAPPOINTING 'EM, AND I DUNNO ABOUT THE OTHER ONE.

SO WILL THOSE HAPPEN AT THIS, UH, NEXT COMING ALDERMAN'S MEETING? IS THAT THE INTENT? SO YOU NEVER KNOW, BUT, BUT IS THAT THE INTENT? YES.

UM, NO.

IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT THEY, I KNOW THE ALDERMAN ISN'T PRESENT OR, OR HAS IT ACTUALLY MADE UP THEIR MIND OR READY TO MAKE UP THEIR MIND? THEY, THEY SERVE UNTIL, YES, THEY SERVE UNTIL THEY'RE REPLACED.

ANY INFORMATION YOU NEED TO PASS ON? COMMENTS? AND SO, JESSE, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO SAY OR YOU SATISFIED WITH WHAT WE DO? OKAY.

SO, ANYTHING ELSE? ANY COMMISSIONERS,

[9. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS ]

SO YOU'RE GONNA RELEASE THIS TO THE WEBSITE THIS WEEK, I GUESS, IS THAT THE GOAL? MY INTENTIONS TO KEEP THIS MOVING FORWARD ARE TO ATTACH THE DRAFT AS I HAVE IT TOMORROW.

AND ONCE WE HAVE THAT, WE WILL, WE HAVE A MECHANISM SET UP FOR COMMENTS FOR PEOPLE THAT MAY NOT WANT TO ATTEND THE MEETING.

SO WE GET THAT INFORMATION AND, UH, WE WILL HOLD OUR MEETING, WHICH HAS BEEN ADVERTISED AS A PUBLIC HEARING ON JULY 7TH, UM, AND TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE DRAFT.

AND ONCE WE GET THROUGH THAT POINT IN THE PROCESS, WE'LL BE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION ON WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

YOU DID A GREAT JOB DESCRIBING THE OTHER THINGS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN BEFORE WE CAN TAKE THIS AND, AND MOVE IT FORWARD.

SO I THINK WE TAKE THE COMMENTS FROM JULY 7TH, WE, UH, MAKE SOME MODIFICATIONS.

UH, IF WE SEE THOSE ARE FIT, WE GIVE THIS SOME TIME WITH THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO REVIEW AND MAKE, MAKE SOME CHANGES BECAUSE THEY, THEY CAN CHOOSE WORDS AND THINGS, BUT NONE OF US ARE, ARE CODE WRITERS OR LAWYERS.

SO WE'RE GONNA TAKE THAT, WE DO HAVE

[01:10:01]

TO HAVE SHIPPO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THIS.

AND THEN WE WILL GET IT TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, UM, HOPEFULLY IN AUGUST.

UH, THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE ADVANTAGEOUS.

AND I'M, I HESITATE TO ESTIMATE THE VOLUME OF COMMENTS, THE TYPES OF COMMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

SO WE'RE GONNA PUT IT OUT AND SEE THE FEEDBACK ON IT AND, UH, WE'LL MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE NEXT STEPS AFTER JULY 7TH, PUBLIC HEARING TAKES PLACE.

THANK YOU.

APPRECIATE YOUR HELP ON THIS.

I APPRECIATE EVERYONE HERE'S HELP, ESPECIALLY COMMISSIONER THOMPSON.

THANK YOU AGAIN.