Jul 01, 2026 Historic Preservation Commission Design Review

THE HANDOUT IS, IS NOT CORRECT.

IT IS WITH THE ERROR.

IT'S BEEN CORRECTED.

AND IF YOU DO A, A ROLL CALL, PLEASE.

UH, MOLLY BALES IS, UH, EXCUSED.

ELENA HUBER IS ABSENT.

HERE WE HAVE A FORUM.

ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.

UH, WELCOME TO THE HPC WORK SESSION.

WORK SESSION IS USED FOR COA DESIGN REVIEWS, FOR TRAINING, AND FOR INFORMAL DISCUSSION OF MATTERS THAT DO NOT REQUIRE FORMAL ACTION BY THE HPC BUSINESS.

MAY REQUIRING A VOTE MAY NOT BE CONDUCTED AT A WORK SESSION.

PUBLIC COMMENT IS NORMALLY NOT ALLOWED AT A WORK SESSION AND NO QUORUM IS REQUIRED.

BUT ATTENDANCE BY HPC COMMISSIONERS, WHILE NOT MANDATORY, IS STRONGLY ENCOURAGED FOR DESIGN REVIEW.

THE PURPOSE IS TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE TO COA APPLICANTS ON BERT'S HISTORIC PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, CITY ORDINANCES AND STATE STATUTES RELATED TO HISTORIC PRESERVATION.

IT'S A CHANCE FOR BOTH THE APPLICANT AND THE HBC TO EXCHANGE INFORMATION AND ASK QUESTIONS.

SO, WITH THAT, MR. SHELLEY, IF YOU WANT TO START WITH THE FIRST.

SO OUR FIRST APPLICATION IS 2 26 EAST FRONT STREET OR APPLICATION.

[2. A. 226 E. Front St. – amendment to approved CoA: add parking garages under first floor, modifications for floodplain requirements. ]

IT'S ACTUALLY AN AMENDMENT TO A REQUEST FOR AN AMENDMENT TO BE APPROVED, UH, COA ON, ON UH, FILE.

SO THAT, AND THAT WAS, UH, DONE IN LAST AUGUST.

SO JUST A REMINDER, UH, YOU GUYS PROBABLY WANT TO DO AN EXTENS EXTENSION REQUEST.

SEND ME AN EMAIL AND THEN ONE, YEAH, IT'S REALLY FANCY.

SO, UH, AND COMPLICATED.

SO THEN, UH, THIS IS ACTUALLY THEIR, UH, APPLICATION FROM THE FIRST TIME AROUND, UM, AND ALSO INDICATES, UH, MR. WALKER, UM, WHO'S IN THE AUDIENCE TODAY AS THEIR AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE, BUT THE SET CENTENARIES ARE HERE TONIGHT.

SO WELCOME TO NEW AND, UH, SO IF YOU MAY OR MAY NOT REMEMBER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, THE PROPERTY ON THE CORNER OF, UH, EAST FRONT STREET AND P*****K STREET, AND THOSE ARE VERY BAD PICTURES.

UM, AND, UM, THIS IS THE SITE PLAN THAT THEY PROVIDED, UH, AT THE TIME.

UH, THE PURPLE BUILDING IS THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, AND IT ALSO INCLUDES THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS NEW PARKING LOT AS WELL.

WELL AS, UH, UH, A LITTLE BIT OF SITE WORK WITH SOME, UH, RAMPS AND STAIRS AND SUCH AROUND THE BUILDING.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.

AND EAST FRONT STREET IS AT THE TOP.

SO THERE'S A SIMPLIFIED VIEW OF THAT.

UH, THE ARCHITECTURAL SITE PLAN, UM, HERE TO NOTE FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING IS, UH, THIS SHOWS, UH, PARKING SPACES, UH, THAT, UH, FACE THE BUILDING ON THE BACK SIDE.

AND, UH, I WAS JUST A LITTLE BIT VIGOROUS IN CASE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT IN THE FUTURE.

SO, AND THE APPROVED, UH, UH, PLANS INCLUDE, UH, AS I MENTIONED, A RAMP, WHICH IS HERE ON THE LEFT, UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER, WRAPPING AROUND AND LANDING UP FRONT OF THE BUILDING.

AND ON THE BACKSIDE IS LIKE A, UM, UH, ADE, UH, ARCADE ON THE BACK SIDE, ESSENTIALLY THE MODERN ARCADE AS WELL AS ON THE FRONT SIDE.

SO THE INTERIOR SPACE HAS THESE THREE DOORS ON THE, ON THE WEST SIDE, AND THEN NOT YET SHOWN IN INDOOR ON THE EAST SIDE.

UH, OH.

AND THERE IS A, A TOWER ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE HERE ON THE NORTH SIDE AND THERE, WHICH INCLUDES AN ELEVATOR, WHICH ENDS

[00:05:01]

OR LANDS, UH, BOTTOMS OUT AT THIS FIRST FLOOR HERE.

THIS IS ALL, UH, THE, AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, THE, UH, APPROVED PLAN SO FAR.

THEY WANT TO AMEND THOSE THINGS THAT I JUST MENTIONED.

MOSTLY IT'S THE SECOND FLOOR AND THIRD FLOOR NOT REALLY SO SUPER RELEVANT THIS EVENING.

AND SO THIS WAS THE, I'M GONNA MAKE THIS, UH, THIS WAS THE APPROVED, UH, FRONT ELEVATION FACING EAST FRONT STREET.

UM, AND, UH, PRIMARILY THE ONLY THINGS THAT WILL BE CHANGING IN THE REQUEST IS THE, THE AREA OF THE FACADE BELOW THE FIRST FLOOR.

UM, THAT ESSENTIALLY THE GROUND LEVEL WILL GET MUCH LOWER AND 'CAUSE THE BUILDING'S GOING IN THEIR REQUEST TALLER.

UM, WE DID HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ELEVATIONS IN THAT, BUT, UH, THE APPLICANT SENT AN EMAIL WITH SOME REVISED DRAWINGS ABOUT HALF AN HOUR AGO.

SO LOOK AT THOSE TWO.

THIS THEN WAS THE, THE, OR IS THE APPROVED REAR ELEVATION, UH, FACING EAST.

UM, AND, UH, AGAIN, SHOWING THAT ARCADE ALONG THERE ON JUST A SOLID FOUNDATION AND ABOUT EIGHT STEPS ON EAST SIDE, LEFT AND RIGHT.

AND THEN THE TWO SIDES, UM, THIS ONE ON THE, ON THE LEFT HERE HAS THE RAMP GOING DOWN, AND ON THE RIGHT HAS STAIRS ON THE, ON THE BACK, THE BUILDING.

AND THEN THIS IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE IS SHOWS THE STAIRS THAT ARE OUT FRONT IN THE MIDDLE.

UH OH.

AND, UH, WELL, THAT'S FINE.

SO IN SOME DETAILS THAT YOU DON'T NEED.

UH, SO THIS WAS THE, UH, RENDERING ONE OF THE TWO RENDERINGS, UH, FOR THE PROJECT AT THE TIME.

SO YOU CAN SEE, UM, ESSENTIALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THESE TWO FIGURES HERE, I SUPPOSE ARE LIFE SIZE OR TO SCALE.

AND SO THEY'RE ABOUT, SO THE UH, FIRST FLOOR IS ABOUT THEIR SHOULDER HEIGHT AND AN AERIAL VIEW AT THE SAME TIME.

AND THIS IS THE COA THAT WAS ISSUED.

AND SO NOW THEIR REQUEST IS TO, UM, THEY WOULD LIKE TO USE THAT SOLID FOUNDATION AREA SPACE TO, UH, PUT SOME, UH, PARKING UNDERNEATH THE BACK OF THE BUILDING WHERE THOSE PARKING SPACES ARE.

UH, AND THEREBY NECESSITATING, UH, ELEVATING THE BUILDING SOMEWHAT.

WELL, IT TURNS OUT THAT, UH, UM, SO HERE THEY'RE SHOWING, UM, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 BARR GARAGES IN HERE.

AND THEN THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO, UH, HAVE THE ELEVATOR GO ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THAT LEVEL CALLING.

WE'RE CALLING IT GROUND LEVEL AND A LITTLE ELEVATOR LOBBY HERE TOO.

UM, SO NO LONGER IS A RAMP NECESSARY.

OKAY? UM, HOWEVER, ELEVATING THAT THE FLOOR MISSES TAKES A LOT MORE STEPS.

WE'RE ALL OVER THE STEPS.

AND SO HERE THERE'S A TURN, WHICH YOU KIND OF SEE THERE WHEN YOU GOT TO THE FIRST FLOOR.

UM, IT NOW APPEARS THE ARCADE ON THE BACKSIDE HAS BEEN REMOVED.

UM, BUT THE ONE ON THE FRONT REMAINS, UH, THE RAMP DOWN THE FRONT SIDE NO LONGER EXISTS.

LET'S, WHAT ELSE? LET'S FLOORS DON'T MATTER.

HEY, MATT, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN ELEVATION ON THE FIRST FLOOR? WHAT, WHAT, WHAT'S THE INCREASE IN ELEVATION ON THAT FIRST FLOOR? SO, UM, I THINK THAT IS, UH, ONE OF OUR OWN QUESTIONS.

WE'RE NOT QUITE SURE.

OF, UH, HEIGHT, UH, IN ITS APPEARANCE.

I COULDN'T TELL FROM THE DRAWING.

ALRIGHT, SO THIS WAS THE, SO WHAT I DID WAS, I, EVEN THOUGH THE DRAWINGS WE JUST SAW WERE PART OF THE PROPOSAL, THIS IS WHAT WAS, IS CURRENTLY APPROVED.

UH, AND, UM, AND THE NEXT SLIDE WILL BE THE PROPOSED ONE, BUT I ALSO DREW ON HERE THIS DARK BLACK LINE DOWN HERE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY WHERE THE LAND IS, UH, AT THE SIDEWALK.

SO THIS ELEVATION WAS MISSING ABOUT TWO FEET

[00:10:01]

ANYWAY, SO THERE'S THAT QUESTION OR THAT ISSUE.

BUT, UH, AND SO NOW THAT'S THE NEW ONE, THE PROPOSED ONE, SORRY.

UH, SO OF COURSE NOW THERE'S MORE STAIRS AND STEPS, UH, ALONG ON THE FRONT AND THEN ON THE BACK AS WELL.

AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE IF THIS, UH, GROUND LEVEL IS, UH, QUITE CORRECT OR IF IT'S EVEN LOWER THAN THAT.

I THINK IT MIGHT BE ABOUT A FOOT LOWER.

SO WHAT THIS SHOWS, UM, SO WHAT, UM, WHERE'S THE REGULATORY FLOOR, UH, REGULATORY, UM, FLOOD ELEVATION, WHICH, WHICH, WHICH LEVEL WAS THAT ON HERE? CHRIS? YOU'RE LOOKING, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS, IT'S AT THE ZERO ZERO LEVEL.

WHAT, WHAT DOES LIM MEAN? THAT'S THE LIMBO ZONE.

LIMBO, OKAY.

ABOUT, YEAH.

UH, WE NEED TO REVISE THESE ELEVATION TAGS.

WE THOUGHT THAT WAS GOOD, BUT, OKAY.

SO ANYWAY, SO THAT'S ZERO.

AND THEN WE HAVE TWO FOOT TO THE BOTTOM OF OUR STRUCTURE, AND THEN TWO FOOT STRUCTURE AND FLOORING TO GET US TO THE, THE FIRST FLOOR LEVEL.

SO YOU'RE SAYING, SO THE LI WA LI WALL BEING WHAT, THE 10 FEET OR THE 12 FOOT REGULATORY ON THIS PLAN? IT'S AT THE 10 FOOT LEVEL.

SO IT'S NOT SHOWING THE 12 FOOT REGULATORY LEVEL.

SO NOW, AND THIS IS NOW THE NEW PROPOSED ONE.

SO WHAT WE ALSO DISCOVERED IN THE PROCESS WAS THAT THE, UH, ESPECIALLY NOW WITH THE GARAGE UNDERNEATH THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING HAS TO BE MORE LIKE A BUILDING ON STILTS, UM, LIKE A BEACH HOUSE KIND OF THING.

UM, AND THE RULES FOR THAT ARE NOT RELATIVE TO THE FINISHED FLOOR HEIGHT, BUT THE RULES ON THAT ARE RELATIVE TO THE, UM, BUILDING THE, THE LOWEST HORIZONTAL MEMBER OF THE BUILDING, UH, STRUCTURE.

SO, UH, UH, IF YOU CAN THINK OF A, A BEACH HOUSE WITH THE STILTS, AND THEN AT SOME POINT THERE'S A PLATFORM THAT THEY CONSTRUCT THE BOTTOM MEMBER, THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE LOWEST HORIZONTAL MEMBER HAS TO BE ABOVE THE, UH, FLOOD ELEVATION.

SO HERE IT IS FOUR, I'M SORRY, 12 FEET ABOVE SEA LEVEL.

SO, UM, UH, WE'LL SEE IN A SECOND.

UH, THERE'S SOME, POTENTIALLY SOME ISSUES, BUT THERE MIGHT NOT BE IN THE END.

BUT IN THE, UH, ESTABLISHMENT OF THE FLOOR LEVEL IS NOT AS RIGID, UH, AS IT OTHERWISE WOULD BE, BECAUSE A FLOOR STRUCTURE CAN BE A FOOT THICK, TWO FOOT THICK, THREE FOOT THICK.

AND WE DON'T, OUR, OUR, UM, STANDARDS ARE RELATED TO WHAT THE, UH, MINIMUM, UH, ELEVATION SHOULD BE.

SO, UM, YEAH.

WELL, RIGHT NOW WE'RE STAYING RIGHT AT THE, THAT 12 FOOT LEVEL FOR THE BOTTOM OF OUR STRUCTURE, WE'RE NOT EXCEEDING.

SO THAT THE BOTTOM OF THE STRUCTURE OR BOTTOM OF THAT CROSSBAR HORIZONTAL, THE BOTTOM OF THE, THE HORIZONTAL MEMBER, SO THE JOIST DOWN IN THE, UNDER THE FIRST LEVEL, THE BOTTOM OF THE JOIST WOULD BE AT THE 12 FOOT LEVEL? YEAH.

SO WE'LL GO RIGHT HERE.

SO THIS IS NOW THE BACKSIDE.

'CAUSE THIS IS WHERE IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

YOU CAN'T HAVE HORIZONTAL MEMBERS GOING THROUGH YOUR GARAGE DOOR, RIGHT? SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE GARAGE DOORS, UM, THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO HAVE THEIR, UM, THE LOWEST, THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE LOWEST MEMBER AT 12 FEET ABOVE SEA LEVEL.

SO WHERE IS THAT ON, ON THIS? IS THAT AT THE LIMB ZERO, ZERO OR LIMB? IT'S, IT'S TWO FOOT ABOVE THAT.

LIM, IT'S ABOVE THAT.

SO, UM, OKAY.

SO WE'LL NEED TO SEE THAT ON THE ELEVATIONS WHERE THAT IS.

RIGHT? MM-HMM .

AND WE'LL NEED, IT'LL NEED TO BE CLEAR THAT, UM, UH, THAT THE STRUCTURE IS THERE.

SO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO REQUEST IS SOME KIND OF EXPLANATION, SKETCH, DESIGN, UH, DETAIL, SHOWING THE BOTTOM OF THE LOWEST MEMBER AND, UM, HOW THAT'S RELATED TO THE OPENINGS, UH, ALONG THIS SIDE OF THE BUILDING.

UH, IT, IT'S MAY ALSO AFFECT WHAT'S HAPPENING INSIDE YOUR BUILDING, ALTHOUGH THAT'S NOT, NOT OF OUR CONCERN, BUT IT WOULD BE FOR YOU.

WE'LL, WE'LL GIVE YOU GUYS A, A BUILDING SECTION.

BUILDING SECTION THERE MM-HMM .

UH, BECAUSE, UM,

[00:15:02]

AND SO, UH, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU STAY IN COMPLIANCE WITH OUR REQUIREMENTS, UM, AT THE SAME TIME.

SO THAT 12 FOOT THE WHOLE WAY AROUND THOUGH, CORRECT? WELL, NOT NECESSARILY.

SO HOW SO, SO AGAIN, YOU THINK OF THE BEACH HOUSE, RIGHT? MM-HMM .

IF YOU, UH, HAVE A ROW OF COLUMNS GOING DOWN, UH, IN, UH, YES.

THE DEPTH OF THE HOUSE, RIGHT? UM, THE LOWEST MEMBER MIGHT BE ON THE SIDES, UM, BUT THEN A FOOT OR TWO ABOVE THAT WOULD BE THEN THE NEXT LOWEST MEMBER SAY A BEAM THAT GOES ACROSS THOSE BEAMS OR THE JOISTS THAT GO ACROSS THOSE BEAMS, BUT THAT LOWEST THAT 12 FEET.

AND SO YOU PICK UP A FOOT OR TWO, UM, THAT WAY.

SO THE, THE, THE LOWEST MEMBERS MIGHT, THE 12 FOOT LOWEST MEMBER MIGHT ONLY BE IN ONE DIRECTION.

YEAH, THAT'S FINE.

BUT, BUT THERE IS, THERE IS A MINIMUM 12 ON ALL SIDES.

ON ALL SIDES, YEAH.

OH YEAH, THAT'S MY QUESTION WOULD BE YES.

THE ELEVATION VARIES AROUND THE BUILDING.

I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S HIGHER ON THE, UH, ON THE SOUTHWEST SIDE AND THEN IT KIND OF GRADES DOWN TO THE BACK OF THE BUILDING.

THAT'S WHY WE CHOSE TO, TO TRY TO DO SOME UNDER UNDERGROUND PARKING THERE.

SO, SO OVER THAT, WE HAVE THE ELEVATIONS FROM THERE, SURVEYS.

AND SO BACK OF THE BUILDING HERE IN THE PARKING SPACES, IT'S THE, UH, GROUND LEVEL IS, UH, FIVE FEET.

SO THAT'S ONLY SEVEN FEET BETWEEN FIVE AND 12.

AND THIS IS SLOPING UP SLIGHTLY.

IT'S MORE THAN FIVE FEET PROBABLY.

SO IF THERE'S AN ISSUE, POTENTIALLY AN ISSUE WITH WHERE THE BASEMENT SLAB ENDS UP DRAINAGE IN OR OUT, YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA DEAL WITH THAT.

AND WE MAY EXCAVATE IT A TINY BIT, JUST RIGHT THERE IN THE, IN THE BASEMENT LEVEL.

JUST TO GET US DOWN FAR ENOUGH FOR HEAD HEIGHT.

SO YOU EXCAVATING THE PARKING LOT SIDE JUST TO GET DOWN TO THAT MM-HMM .

RUBBER LEVEL? YEAH, POSSIBLY, UH, SIX INCHES TO A FOOT JUST IN THE BASEMENT AREA.

SO, SO WHAT DOES THAT RAISE YOUR FIRST FLOOR? THE QUESTION I STARTED WITH FROM, FROM, FROM THE PREVIOUS, FROM PREVIOUSLY APPROVED TO THIS ONE.

HOW MUCH DOES THAT FIRST FLOOR GO UP? I WANT TO SAY IT'S TWO TO THREE FEET.

SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE.

IT LOOKED BIGGER.

I JUST, YOU THINK IT'S ONLY TWO TO THREE FEET? A COUPLE OF STEPS? I THINK SO.

I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME TO TELL YOU, BUT, UH, I CAN, I CAN GET THAT INFORMATION FOR YOU.

AND WHAT WILL THIS DO TO THE TOTAL ELEVATION OF THE BUILDING? HIGHEST POINT? IT, IT IS JUST BRINGING THE TOTAL ELEVATION UP BY WHATEVER WE NEEDED TO GET US ABOVE THE FLOODPLAIN.

UM, YEAH.

SO IN THE PROPOSED, UH, CHANGE WE HAVE, UM, UH, LET'S SEE, THE HIGHEST POINT FOR THE TOWER ROOF BEARING AND BIGGER 48 FEET ABOVE SEAT ABOVE, WELL, THAT'S 48 FEET ABOVE THE FIRST FLOOR, WHICH IS THEN IN THE APPROVED ONE, FOUR FEET ABOVE THE GRADE.

SO, YEAH, IT, IT'S A LITTLE DECEIVING THOUGH, LOOKING AT THE, TRYING TO COMPARE THESE TWO, 'CAUSE THE FLOOR PLAN ELEVATION HERE IS ZERO FOOT ZERO AT THE FIRST FLOOR PLAN, BUT IN THE NEW PLAN IT'S ZERO AT THE LIM LEVEL.

SO, SO THIS IS HIS NEW ELEVATION, UH, ELEVATION FROM THE FRONT.

HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE FOR THE BEER, BUT UM, WE'RE SHOWING THE 12 FOOT AND THEN THE TWO FOOT MORE FOR THE FIRST FLOOR.

SO IT'S ACTUALLY GONNA, SO YOU'RE ALLOWING TWO FEET FOR YOUR STRUCTURE MM-HMM .

AND YOUR FLOORING, AND THEN EIGHT FEET, UH, FROM THE BASEMENT, UH, BELOW THAT MEMBER.

SO THAT PUTS YOU BELOW YOUR GRADE IN THE BACK FOOT HALF.

YEAH, JUST SLIGHTLY BELOW GRADE IN THE BACK.

UM, SO, BUT, UM, IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT GOING, UM, DEPTH BUILT COLUMNS, YOU PROBABLY PICK UP A TRUCK INSIDE THE BUILDING.

[00:20:01]

YEAH, YEAH.

WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

DOES, DOES THIS CHANGE THE REQUIRED PARKING SPOTS BY HAVING GARAGES VERSUS OPEN PARKING? UM, WE ARE TAKING SOME, SOME SPOTS AWAY FROM THE BACK OF THE, THE BUILDING, BUT THEY WERE ALREADY GONNA BE RESIDENTIAL PARKING ANYWAY, SO WE JUST KIND OF, YEAH.

SO THEY HAD PUT 'EM INTO THE BUILDING AND GIVE THEM MORE PARKING BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PARKING IN FRONT OF THE GARAGES.

SO WE RAN A PAST ZONING.

I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS THAT? WE RAN A PAST ZONING AND THIS, UH, 'CAUSE THERE'S ALSO AN SSUP, UH, SPECIAL USE PERMIT INVOLVED WITH THIS.

UH, AND THEY WERE NOTICING THAT, UH, YOU LOSE THREE SPACES ON THE, ON THE GROUND LEVEL OR OUTSIDE THE BUILDING, BUT YOU ADD SEVEN, SO IT'S A NET GAIN OF FOUR ANYWAY.

SO NOW GRANTED THEY ARE PRIVATE, YOU KNOW, STACKED PARKING, RIGHT? TEND PARKING.

YEAH, I GUESS.

BUT HOWEVER YOU CALL THAT FROM BACK, RIGHT? SO THE PERSON IN THE GARAGE CAN'T GET OUT IF THERE'S A CAR OUTSIDE.

SO I'M ASSUMING THE ONES OUTSIDE WILL BE PART OF THE PRIVATE.

THAT, THAT WOULD BE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL.

SO, SO I, I HEARD MATT ASK FOR ALSO THE GROUND LEVEL, MAKE SURE THOSE ARE CORRECT.

AND I NOTICED ON THE BACK, IT LOOKS LIKE THE GROUND LEVEL'S HERE, AND THEN YOU DO EXCAVATE DOWN FOR THE DR THE DRIVING INTO THE GARAGE SCREEN, RIGHT? JUST SLIGHTLY.

BUT WE'LL, WE'LL GET THOSE ELEVATIONS NAILED DOWN BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING.

IF YOU WANT, I CAN SHOW YOU MY SKETCHES ON THE WE COLUMNS .

SO, SO, SO THE, THIS, THE FRONT THEN, UM, THE FOUNDATION, IS IT COLUMNS THEN WITH, OR IS IT, IS IT A SOLID FOUNDATION OR IS IT MORE OF A COLUMN WITH INFILL? YEAH, IT'S ESSENTIALLY PI, LASTERS AND THEN BREAKAWAY WALLS BETWEEN EACH PI LASTER.

AND WHAT'S THE MATERIAL IN THOSE BREAKAWAY WALLS? UM, RIGHT NOW WE WERE PLANNING TO DO LIKE A THIN BRICK MATERIAL FOR THE BREAKAWAY WALLS AND THEN FULL BRICK, STANDARD BRICK FOR THE, THE PIE LASTERS.

I'M GONNA TRY TO MATCH IT UP AS CLOSE AS WE CAN.

SO THE, THE DRAWING WHERE IT LOOKS LIKE ALL BRICK IS NOT ACTUALLY CORRECT.

IT'S NOT A BRICK.

YEAH, IT'S NOT BRICK.

JUST TO ASK YOU, I'M NOT, NOT, NOT STANDARD RIGHT OR WRONG, NOT STANDARD BRICK.

AND, AND, AND WILL THOSE POLISHERS, WILL THEY BE CONCRETE BLOCK WITH JUST A BRICK FACE? YES.

YEAH, THAT'S THE PLAN.

SO WHAT WERE YOU SAYING WAS THE INFILL PANEL, THE BRICK FACEBOOK, IT'S, UH, BEEN BRICK ER, YEAH.

AND THEN HE ALSO PROVIDED, UH, FOR TONIGHT THIS, UH, NEW RENDERING THEN WILL BE SHOWING THE HIGHER, HIGHER, UH, CONSTRUCTION.

SO YOU CAN SEE THE BENEFIT OF PLANTINGS.

AND, UH, REDUCING THE OVERALL EFFECT.

IT'S SURPRISING THAT IT'S NOT ALL THAT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THE BUILDING NEXT DOOR, WHICH RIGHT, RIGHT.

YOU OWN THAT AS WELL.

IS THAT CORRECT? WHAT'S THAT? THEY OWN THAT AS WELL.

THE MARY'S.

UH, AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SHOWN HERE, ASSUMING AGAIN THAT THERE'S TO SCALE, UM, IT, IT NOW IS QUITE A BIT HIGHER OR SEEMS THAT WAY.

NOW, UM, THIS, THE, THE WHITE FAN HERE IS NOT A FOUR LEVEL, CORRECT? IS IT? THAT IS THE FLOOR LEVEL, THAT'S, YEAH.

ALRIGHT, SO, UM, I GUESS THAT'S IT FOR THE PRESENTATION SO FAR.

SO, UM, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BASICALLY SEE THE, THE REVISED DRAWINGS THEN PRESENTED NEXT MONTH OF DESIGN A NEW MEETING? CAN, CAN IN THE BACK? UM, YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE GONNA GET RID OF THE, THE COLON AID.

WAS THAT, SO YEAH, THE, THE BACK WE, WE DID GET RID OF THE COLONNADE AND JUST, WE KEPT THE OPENINGS THERE AND JUST, JUST PUSHED THE, THE ENTIRE BUSINESS SECTION OF THE, THE FIRST FLOOR ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BACK WALL.

WAS IT, UM, WAS, WAS THERE A, I DON'T, I'M SEEING, WAS THERE A RENDERING OF THE WHAT? THE BACK, THE FLAKE AND THE NEW NEW ONES? OR MAYBE JUST THE DRAWING, I GUESS? NO, IS THERE A DRAWING THAT SHOWS THAT? JUST THE DRAWING.

SO, UM, NOT THAT ONE.

THERE IS A 3D VIEW.

THAT'S THE NEW ONE, RIGHT? OR THE PROPOSED ONE.

THERE'S A LOT MORE SHADOW LINES THERE MAKING THAT DARKER AND NOW IT'S, IT'S WINDOWS.

THIS IS THE, UH, THAT'S THE BACK PREVIOUS ONE.

NOW IN THIS ONE, THE EFFECT IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE, WELL, OBVIOUSLY

[00:25:01]

SAME PATTERN THOUGH.

WE'RE JUST, WE'RE JUST INFILLING WITH WINDOWS.

THERE ARE THESE, I DON'T REMEMBER IF THEY'RE GONNA BE WE, UH, RENTALS OR, UH, CONDOMINIUMS UP ON THE UPPER LEVELS WOULD BE BE RENTALS.

RENTALS.

THE, THE FIRST FLOOR IS, UM, BUSINESS DESIGNATED FOR BUSINESS.

ANY QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? YEAH.

UM, ON THE FRONT ELEVATION MAT, DID YOU GO TO THE FRONT? JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING A COUPLE THINGS CORRECT.

FOR NEW, UH, THE NEW PLEASE.

UM, WHAT'S THE MATERIAL AT, IN THE FRONT CENTER OF THAT ENTRY? THE, UH, IS THAT JUST PATTERN UNDERNEATH THE STAIRS PATTERN BRICK OR IS THAT A, IS THAT A, LIKE A VENT LOUVER OR, YEAH, THAT'S LIKE A LATTICE VENTED KIND OF OPENING THERE.

IN THE FRONT.

AND THEN HELP ME OUT WITH THE, HELP ME OUT WITH THE DIFFERENCES IN GUARDRAILS, JUST SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON THERE.

IF I LOOK OVER ON EITHER THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT THAT LOOKS LIKE ABOUT THE STANDARD GUARDRAIL, IT LOOKS LIKE THE EIGHT PANELS ON THE FRONT WALL IN THE MIDDLE ARE HIGHER.

IS THAT CORRECT? I'M NOT SURE I'M TRACKING WITH YOU THERE.

SO, SO IF THAT, IF WHERE THAT CURSOR IS, GO BACK OVER EITHER SIDE, MATT, IF THAT'S YOUR STANDARD HEIGHT GUARDRAIL, IF YOU GO OVER TO THE NEXT ONE ON RIGHT THERE, ONE YOU KEEP GOING OVER TO THE, TO THE RIGHT NOW THEY'RE THREE PANELS AND THEN SKIP THE FRONT ENTRY, AND THEN THOSE FOUR PANELS OVER THERE, THOSE LOOK LIKE THEY'RE HIGHER.

IS THAT CORRECT? IT IS SLIGHTLY HIGHER THERE.

UM, OKAY.

I DIDN'T NOTICE THAT BEFORE.

WE MAY LOOK AT THE SAME WITH THE SAME WITH THE, THE THREE PANELS OF GUARDRAIL IN THE, IN THE VERY FRONT CENTER.

THOSE ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE THEY'RE LOWER HELP, I GUESS.

HELP ME OUT.

I'M JUST TRYING TO GET UNDERSTANDING WHAT'S CORRECT THERE AND WHAT WE'RE GONNA SEE.

YEAH, LET ME INVESTIGATE THAT A LITTLE MORE.

I'M, I'M KIND OF THINKING THAT WE MIGHT WANNA PULL 'EM ALL TO THE SAME HEIGHT.

AND THEN, UM, I THINK ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I HAD IS, MATT, IF YOU CAN ZOOM OUT JUST A LITTLE BIT AND GO TO THE, THERE YOU GO.

RIGHT TO THE, TO THE FAR LEFT THERE.

UM, I'M SEEING IT AT THE, WHAT WE CALL IT, I'M GONNA CALL IT THE ELEVATOR TOWER, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM.

WHERE YOU, WHERE YOU'VE GOT THAT CAN OF PEEL OVER THAT TREE.

YOU'RE SHOWING A ON THIS ELEVATION AND UNDERNEATH THE BACK ELEVATION YOU'RE SHOWING TWO SECTIONS OF GUARDRAIL THERE AT LEVEL TWO AND LEVEL THREE.

BUT ON THE END ELEVATION, LOOKING STRAIGHT AT THAT, YOU'RE ONLY SHOWING THE GUARDRAIL.

ONE IS MAYBE WE SQUARE THAT AWAY.

MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND WHICH IS WHICH.

YOU GOT SOME OUT THERE.

MATT, CAN YOU GET TO THE SIDE ELEVATION? LEMME SEE THAT MATT, OTHER SIDE, OTHER END.

THERE WE GO.

THERE YOU GO.

SO THERE'S ONE AT LEVEL TWO THERE AND THEN IT'S NOT UP ABOVE AT THREE.

YEAH, I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.

YEAH, IT SHOULD BE A RAIL THERE TOO.

UM, THOUGHT I HAD ONE MORE QUESTION.

I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS.

OH, THAT'S WHAT IT WAS.

UM, THE REAR STAIR SOUTHEAST ON THE ELEVATIONS SHOWS THAT THAT STAIR IS OPEN UNDERNEATH.

UM, IS THAT OPEN UNDERNEATH OR IS THAT GONNA BE COVERED LIKE, OR ENCLOSED? LIKE THIS ONE HERE IS, THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE NORTH SIDE.

IF YOU GO TO THE SOUTH END THERE MA'AM, THERE, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THROUGH THAT.

BUT THE, THE RENDERING YOU DID SHOWS THAT IS, UM, BLOCK UNDER THAT STAIRS THAT I THINK WE JUST NEED TO SQUARE AWAY, WHICH IS CORRECT FOR OKAY.

FOR THE NEXT BEATING.

YEAH, I DO KNOW THAT THIS SIDE ON THE, UM, WHAT IS THAT, THE SOUTH SOUTHWEST CORNER OF, OF THE BUILDING, THAT ONE NEEDS TO BE OPEN.

WE HAVE A DOOR THAT'S COMING OUT RIGHT UNDER THAT STA THAT NEEDS TO, IT'S AN EGRESS DOOR FROM THE THAT OKAY.

BASEMENT.

SO THAT SIDE WILL NEED TO KEEP OPEN.

I THINK IF YOU CAN UPDATE THAT JUST SO WE MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND HOW THAT'S OPEN.

YOU KNOW, YOU COULD OPEN IT AND GO LEFT, OPEN IT AND GO RIGHT.

MAYBE IT'S PASS THROUGH.

I I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE GET THAT.

UM, AND THEN ABOUT YOUR BREAKAWAY WALLS WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT.

I THINK THE LAST ONE I HAD AND, AND I'M NOT SURE I'LL GO DOWN LEMON SAY, I'M NOT SURE HOW PERTINENT IT IS.

IF YOU COULD GO TO THE WEST ELEVATION.

UM, AM I LOOKING AT A STORE FRONT DOOR? I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE OPENING TO THE BUILDING WORKS AND IF THAT'S ACCEPTABLE AS MATERIAL FOR MATERIALS ON THERE.

AND MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE IT'S SECONDARY.

I GUESS I NEED A LITTLE HELP ON THERE.

UH, I'M SORRY.

BACK ELEVATION THAT SHOWS THE

[00:30:01]

GARAGE DOORS.

OH, ACTUALLY I THINK THAT SHOULD BE ABLE SOUTH ELEVATION THERE.

SO IS THAT STOREFRONT WINDOW THERE WHERE YOU GO INTO UNDERNEATH THIS HERE? THAT'S FOR THE ELEVATOR LOBBY? YEAH.

YEAH, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE STOREFRONT SYSTEM RIGHT THERE.

UM, LET'S SEE.

I TRYING TO FIND THAT, UH, FLOOR PLAN, SHOW THE DOORWAY, THE OUTSIDE A COUPLE PAGES UP FOR THAT.

SO, UH, BUT WHAT WE SEE HERE IS A SINGLE RUN STAIRWAY.

THAT MATCHES THE PLAN NOW.

THAT'S THE, YEAH, YOU'RE SEEING THE BACKGROUND THERE.

SEE THE BACKGROUND, IT'S ONE OF THE CURSES OF THESE DIGITAL PROGRAMS. , YOU SEEM TOO FAR IN THE BACK.

, I DON'T WANNA LOOK AT THAT RIGHT NOW.

TRANSPARENCY BACK THERE.

THEN THERE, DONE THAT.

WE GET YOU.

ANYTHING ELSE? ANYONE YOU CAN SEE RICH THROUGH THERE IF YOU LOOK .

SO I GUESS EVENTUALLY WE'LL NEED MORE DETAIL WHAT THE GARAGE DOORS ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE.

THEY CAN BE UTILITARIAN, BUT JUST WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE AND, UH, ANY DOORS EVENTUALLY, WHAT THE APPEARANCE OF THE DOOR IS, MATERIAL, ET CETERA.

WILL THERE BE SIGNAGE ON THOSE OVERHEAD DOORS? AND IS THAT ANYTHING WE NEED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT? UM, PRIVATE PARKING, SIGN SIGNAGE.

THERE WAS ALSO PUTTING SIGNAGE ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING, KIND OF IN ON THE BRICK FACE.

UM, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT JOHN? UM, EH, I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT LIKE THE PARKING LOTS DOWNTOWN HERE WHERE WE'VE GOT SIGNAGE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE PARKING, PRIVATE PARKING.

UM, I COULD ENVISION THERE BEING A NEED FOR THAT IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE AFTER THIS BUILDING IS CONSTRUCTED AND PEOPLE JUST SORT OF PARKING THERE AND SURE.

BECOMING A THING.

FIGURED I'D RATHER ASK THE QUESTION THAN NOT DOES IT CONCERN YOU OR JUST NOTING, I'M JUST TRYING TO NOTE AND MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE UNDERSTANDING WHAT THAT BUILDING'S GONNA BE.

THAT'S REALLY WHERE GOING.

LET ME, LET ME LOOK AT THE SIGNAGE ASPECT AND I'LL, I'LL SEE IF I CAN AT LEAST SHOW WHERE THAT'S GONNA BE.

THAT'S IT.

MATT, DOES THAT GIVE YOU EVERYTHING YOU ASKED FOR? UH, NO.

THOSE THE MAIN THOSE THE MAIN THINGS AND BE ENOUGH FOR NEXT TIME.

AND SO I DOUBT YOU'D HAVE THAT DONE BY FRIDAY THIS WEEK.

SO .

OH, DON'T .

UH, SO THESE WERE ACTUALLY SOME MEMBRANES THAT WERE PROVIDED FOR THE YEAH, FOR THIS, THIS, UH, REQUEST.

HAD A LOT OF FAVORABLE COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON HOW THIS LOOKS.

ALRIGHT, SO CHRIS, THANK YOU.

UH, AND WE ARE THE NEXT MEETING THEN.

IS AUGUST THE FIFTH? AUGUST 5TH FOR THE, THE FORMAL MEETING? NO, NO.

FOR THE DESIGN REVIEWS.

BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE DRAWINGS OF THAT BY THIS FRIDAY, WE DON'T HAVE, RIGHT.

UM, YEAH.

WHAT'S THE CUTOFF FOR GETTING TO THE FINAL? SO IF HE DOES, ARE YOU GUYS OKAY WITH THEM COMING YES.

TO THE REGULAR MEETING IN TWO WEEKS? IF HE CAN.

I NEED TO KNOW TODAY YOU WANTED TO POST EVERYTHING, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION.

YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE EVERYTHING DONE BY, BY FRIDAY DEADLINE THIS FRIDAY? UM, NO, IT'S NOT THIS FRIDAY.

SO, UH, ANY REVISIONS WOULD BE, NEED TO BE IN US BY NEXT THURSDAY.

NEXT THURSDAY.

THAT MIGHT COST A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

BUT I DON'T SEE ANY SHOWSTOPPERS HERE THEN.

SO, UM, UH, AND OF COURSE IF THEY DON'T HAVE HAVE IT READY OR IF THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY'RE READY OR WHATEVER, WE CAN, WE CAN ALWAYS, UM, UH, POSTPONE, UM, IT'S CALLED CONTINUE THE, THE THING TOO WITH THE FOLLOWING MEETING.

AND THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO REPOST EVERYTHING AND ALL THAT.

AND WE, WE WILL LOOK AT IT.

IF, IF WE THINK IT'S SOMETHING IS INCOMPLETE, WE'LL WE'LL DECIDE THAT AT THE MEETING.

BUT, BUT IF YOU GIVE ALL THIS THE STUFF, I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT.

[00:35:01]

WELL THAT WOULD BE OUR ATTENTION.

YOU KNOW, WE GOT, WE GOT THROWN THIS MEMO THING AND DIDN'T THE MICROPHONE, SORRY, , YOU KNOW, MAJORITY OF THE CHANGES THAT YOU'RE SEEING OR SO ON, IT'S ALL REQUIRED BE BEING REQUIRED BY THE LIMB WALL REQUIREMENTS, RAISING IT UP AND SO ON.

IT'S BEEN A DIFFICULT CHALLENGE.

I'LL BE VERY HONEST WITH YOU, I WANT TO PUT THIS BUILDING UP THERE, BUT THERE'S BEEN SOME TIMES IN THE LAST 45 DAYS THAT I'VE BEEN SCRATCHING MY HEAD AND SAYING, IS THIS THE RIGHT THING TO DO? I MEAN, I WANTED TO MAKE A LANDMARK BUILDING, YOU KNOW, THAT I SHOWED YOU THE BUILDING THAT WAS THERE HISTORICALLY.

AND I'M GOING OUT OF MY WAY TO CREATE THAT.

IT'S EXPENSIVE BUILDING, BUT THE LI WALL WAS A LEFT CURVE FOR ME.

I BUILT SUBDIVISIONS AND I BUILT THIS, BUT THIS WAS A, THIS WAS A REAL CURVE FOR ME.

LIFT UP A FOUR STORY BUILDING, 12 FEET.

AND I'VE HAD TWO ARCHITECTS WORKING ON THIS CHALLENGE.

SO AS FAR AS POSTPONING AND STUFF, CHRIS HAS BEEN VERY ATTENTIVE AND I'VE BEEN MAKING SURE HE'S BEEN ATTENTIVE.

UH, I DON'T WANT ANY MORE DELAYS IF WE CAN AVOID THAT.

YEAH, WE DON'T EITHER.

IT'S JUST, I MEAN, I'M, I'M TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING REALLY SPECIAL FOR THIS CITY.

THAT'S, THAT'S MY INTENT, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE CORNER.

WE OWN IT.

WE WANT TO MAKE IT, MAKE IT A SPECIAL PLACE.

AND I REALIZE THE IMPORTANCE TO THE CITY OF ITS LOCATION AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE.

BUT IT'S BEEN A GRIND.

I'LL BE REAL HONEST WITH YOU.

IT'S BEEN TAKING ME RIGHT TO THE POINT WHERE I'M SAYING, WHAT AM I DOING HERE, THIS 12 FEET AND THEN EVERYTHING'S GOTTA BE 12 FEET.

I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S BEEN A REAL CHALLENGE, BUT WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE HERE, SO DON'T, DON'T, YEAH.

I'M SURE YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH IT BEFORE.

SO AS FAR AS DELAYS AND STUFF, WE'LL MAKE SURE WE GET TO THIS.

AND MY CONFUSION ON THAT WAS JUST, IT WAS OFF BY A WEEK BECAUSE WE DO HAVE, ONCE WE SCHEDULE A HEARING, HE'S GOTTA DO ALL KINDS OF NOTIFICATIONS AND YES, YES.

I'M AWARE THAT WE DID THAT BEFORE.

STUFF WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

THANK YOU GENTLEMEN.

[2. B. 406 Avenue A – demolish existing storage building (after-the-fact) and add new accessory storage building in the Tertiary AVC. ]

4 0 6 AVENUE A THANK YOU.

ALRIGHT, SO, UH, SO THIS IS THE APPLICATION FOR 4 0 6 AVENUE ONE A, UH, FOR IAN.

UH, AND ALSO THEIR CONTRACTORS, JASON HOLTON WITH SOUTHERN HOMES.

AND WHAT THEY SIMPLY WANT TO DO IS, UH, HAVE REPLACED THEIR, UH, STORAGE BUILDING IN THE BACKYARD WITH A NEW ONE.

AND THERE'S BEEN SOME COMPLICATIONS.

UH, THIS IS THEN THEIR SIGNED, UM, APPLICATION.

AND, UH, YOU SAW THAT WAS, UH, UH, MR. HOLTON'S SIGNATURE.

SO HE IS WITH THIS FORM HERE, LY DESIGNATED AS THE AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE FOR THEM, BUT OBVIOUSLY THE OWNERS ARE HERE.

ALSO THE CONTRACTOR, UH, MR. HOLTON IS ALSO HERE.

UM, TODAY THEY SENT ME THE, UH, SURVEY DRAWING THAT THEY HAVE FOR THE PROPERTY.

UM, AND THEN, UM, THAT WAS COMPARED WITH WHAT'S ON GIS, WHICH S IS OFF BY A COUPLE OF FEET.

SO THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL FOR YOU GUYS TO KNOW.

IT'S, WHAT, WHAT DID YOU SAY? THE GIS IS OFF BY A COUPLE OF FEET.

UM, SO ON YOUR SURVEY, UH, IT SHOWS THE WIDTH OF THE PROPERTY IS 32 FOOT, 32.55 FEET.

UM, BUT THE GIS SHOWS 30 FEET.

SO THERE'S TWO AND A HALF FEET, WELL, 30.4 FEET.

SO TWO EXTRA FEET THERE THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WAS THERE PROBABLY.

UM, AND, UH, THE, UH, GARAGE ITSELF THAT THE EXISTING CURB ROOM, FORMALLY EXISTING GARAGE, IT'S NOW ALREADY BEEN DEMOLISHED, UM, WAS NOT INDICATED IN OUR INVENTORY.

SO, UH, WE ARE RELYING ON THE COUNTY DATA HERE FOR THE BUILDING DATE OF 1950.

UM, THAT DATE COULD POTENTIALLY QUALIFY IT TO BE CONSIDERED AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

UM, HOWEVER, UM, IT'S NO LONGER THERE, UH, FOR ONE AND TWO MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN SO, UM, CONTRIBUTING AFTER ALL.

SO THESE ARE SOME PHOTOS, SO IT'S GOING TO BE A DEMOLITION AND REDEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.

UH, SO THEY PROVIDED SOME PHOTOS OF PREVIOUSLY EXISTING,

[00:40:01]

UM, STORAGE BUILDING.

VERY NICE.

UM, BUILDING ON THE EXTERIOR .

UH, AND YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A COUPLE OF PICTURES, UH, DOWN THE, DOWN THE SIDE OF PROPERTY AND FROM OUT FRONT SUCH.

BUT WHEN THEY, ONCE THEY GOT INTO REMOVING, STARTING THE DEMOLITION OF THE, OF THE BUILDING, UH, THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE WAS IN TERRIBLE SHAPE DESPITE THE NICE EXTERIOR COATING.

SO OF COURSE THIS IS A DEMOLITION PROJECT HERE, BUT THE, UH, YOU CAN SEE ALL, ALMOST ALL THE SHEATHING IS DETERIORATED IF NOT TERMITE, EATEN, UH, DESTROYED.

SO, AND THEN THE STRUCTURAL MEMBER HERE, I'M NOT SURE WHERE, WHAT IT LEADS TO OR WHAT IT WAS ATTACHED TO, BUT UM, UM, ALSO EATEN BY TERMITES AND THROUGH HERE, OR DRY ROT.

SO, UM, SO IT IS AT SOME POINT, IF NOT, UH, IN TWO WEEKS, UM, POTENTIALLY THE NEXT MEETING AFTER THAT, UH, YOU GUYS WILL HAVE TO MAKE A, MAKE A DETERMINATION ON THE DEMOLITION OF THE, OF THE BUILDING IN THE PROCESS.

LEMME STOP YOU THERE.

BUT YOU'RE SAYING IT'S ALREADY DEMOLISHED, RIGHT? YES, IT IS.

SO IT'S AN AFTER THE FACT? THAT'S CORRECT, YEAH.

SO, UH, BUT I STILL WOULD'VE TO DO A FORMAL DECLARATION OR SOMETHING IN, IN THE PROCESS.

AND THEN, UM, THEY PROVIDED A SITE PLAN.

SO NOW WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE REDEVELOPMENT PIECE.

UH, THEY PROVIDED FIRST A, UH, THIS WAS THEIR SKETCH, THEIR SITE PLAN SHOWING 16 BY 18, UH, STORAGE SHED.

UH, AND IS, IS THAT ON, THAT'S ON THE EXISTING SLAB THAT WAS THERE, IS THAT A NEW SLAB OR IS THAT THE SAME SIZE AS THE OLD ONE? YES AND NO, SAME SLAB, SAME FOOTAGE, , SAME EVERYTHING.

SO, UM, AND IF YOU'RE GONNA SPEAK, PLEASE COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE.

UM, BUT THE, UH, THE ISSUE IS THAT THE SLAB AND THE GARAGE WERE EITHER ON THE PROPERTY LINE OR ACROSS THE PROPERTY LINE YET TO BE DETERMINED, UH, WHICH MEANT THE SLAB ITSELF WAS ALSO AT THAT POINT, AND YET THEY CAN'T BUILD A NEW, UH, STRUCTURE ON THE PROPERTY LINE OR ACROSS THE PROPERTY LINE.

SO, UH, THERE'S SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH THAT AND MAYBE THEY WANT TO COME UP AND TALK TO US ABOUT THAT AT SOME POINT.

ANYTIME.

YEAH, GO AHEAD, , IF YOU WANT TO TALK TO US ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE PLANNING ON DOING NOW THAT SURE.

CAN I TELL YOU WHERE THE TERMITE DAMAGE CAME FROM? OH, WELL THAT'S PROBABLY INCONSEQUENTIAL.

FIRST STATE YOUR NAME, PLEASE.

MARK DEBIAN.

WHAT WE'RE PLANNING IS, YES, WE WERE SURPRISED THAT THE TERMITE DAMAGE AND SHOCKED BECAUSE WE HAD NO IDEA THAT IT WAS HAPPENING AND IT HAD BEEN HAPPENING FOR YEARS.

SO YEAH, WE WERE SHOCKED.

AND, UM, JASON WAS JUST SUPPOSED TO NAIL UP A FEW BOARDS AND REPLACED SOME ROTTEN WOOD AND HE SAYS, I'VE GOT NOTHING TO NAIL ANYTHING INTO.

SO YES, WE SORT OF PANICKED AND YES, WE TOOK THE BUILDING DOWN AND YES, WE WERE FINED $500 FOR DOING IT.

NO, NO, NO, NO.

THERE'S NO FINE, NO, FINE.

DIDN'T WE WRITE A CHECK? YOU, YOU HAVE A $500 FEE FOR THE APPLICATION.

EVERYBODY HAS TO PAY A FEE FOR THEIR APPLICATION.

OKAY, THEN I APOLOGIZE.

THAT THIS HOUSE AND THIS GARAGE ARE AS HISTORICALLY ACCURATE AS WE CAN KEEP THEM.

, GO AHEAD.

SO ANYWAY, IT WAS A HISTORIC GARAGE SITTING ON A HISTORIC SLAB AND FOUNDATION.

WE DID TAKE THE GARAGE DOWN.

THE FOUNDATION IS STILL THERE.

IT HASN'T MOVED.

IF WE CANNOT REBUILD ON THAT FOUNDATION, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO MOVE OVER.

THAT MEANS THE CONCRETE FOUNDATION.

NOW, THE, UH, PLATFORM THAT IT SITS ON GOING ALL THE WAY AROUND HAS TO BE TORN OUT.

AND THEN WE HAVE TO BUILD A WHOLE NEW SET OF, UM, RISERS TO BUILD THE GARAGE ON.

AND THIS IS GONNA ADD TREMENDOUSLY TO THE COST, WHICH WE'RE ALREADY TRYING TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO US

[00:45:01]

WE ARE MERELY THE CARETAKERS OF THIS HOUSE.

SO WE ARE TRYING WITH THE BEST OF INTENTIONS TO REBUILD IT AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO WHAT THE LAST ONE WAS.

AND THAT'S, THAT'S ACTUALLY, UH, TRUE COMPARED TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY HAVE SUBMITTED FOR THEIR, UH, DESIGN DRAWINGS, WHICH I'LL SHOW YOU NOW HERE IN A SECOND.

SO THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT, UH, THEY'RE PROPOSING FOR THE REPLACEMENT.

UH, THE DIMENSIONS BE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PERHAPS DEPENDING ON, UH, UH, WHAT THEY DECIDE IN THE END FOR THE FOUNDATION.

UM, BUT YOU CAN SEE IT LOOKS ALMOST THE SAME AS THE PREVIOUS ONE.

EVEN THE LITTLE LIGHT ON THE ABOVE.

EXACTLY.

, WE SAVED IT.

IT'S THE ONLY THING THE TERMITES DIDN'T NEED .

SO, SO WHAT, WHAT, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE ISSUE WITH THE SLAB BEING, UM, OVER THE PROPERTY LINE OR MAYBE ON THE PROPERTY LINE? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S A, UM, A PLANNING AND ZONING MATTER OR JUST A WAIT? YEAH, SO, UM, NOBODY CARES.

UH, IT'S UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE.

THE NEIGHBORS MIGHT CARE IF IT'S OVER THE PROPERTY LINE.

UM, UH, UM, SO THEY JUST CAN'T BUILD ON THE FIRST THREE FEET BETWEEN THE PROPERTY LINE AND THE, THE REQUIRED SETBACK.

SO, UM, THAT, AND THAT IS A ZONING ISSUE.

UM, BUT AFTER THAT IT CAN.

AND IS THE EXISTING SLAB WITHIN THAT THREE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE? NO.

IT EXTENDS TO THE PROPERTY LINE.

OH, IT GOES IN, IT GOES BACK TO THE PROPERTY.

SO WHEN IT WAS BUILT, IT WAS PUSHED RIGHT AGAINST THE, THE PROPERTY LINE.

EXACTLY.

SO THERE'S, THERE'S NO SETBACK SPACE, BUT THERE IS, IT'S NOT EXCEEDING THE PROPERTY LINE THAT RIGHT.

SO THEORETICALLY, JUST IMAGINE, UM, THEY DECIDE TO BUILD ON WHATEVER'S LEFT OF, OF THE PATH THEY COULD BUILD ON ALL THAT THREE FEET OF IT SURE.

AND END UP WITH A PIECE OF CONCRETE STICKING OUT AS THEY BUILDING YES.

IN THE SETBACK AREA.

WHICH MEANS THEY EITHER HAVE TO ADD SOME SLAB ON THE OTHER SIDE TO MAKE THE SAME SIZE, IF THE, THE SAME, THE STORAGE BUILDING THE SAME SIZE.

OR KEEP US MAKE A SMALLER BUILDING REDUCE BY THREE FEET IN EACH DIRECTION.

WELL, IN ONE DIRECTION, ONE DIRECTION.

IT DOESN'T BUMP UP AGAINST YOUR BACK PROPERTY DOESN'T, IT'S INSIDE THREE FEET.

IT DOESN'T BUMP UP AGAINST IT, BUT NOT, IT DOESN'T EXTEND ALL THE WAY UP TO THE BACK PROPERTY LINE.

NO, SIR.

DOES IT SHOW ON THE SURVEY? NO, NOT YET.

THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO NO STRUCTURE SHOWN ON THE SURVEY.

BUT OUR PROBLEM WITH MAKING IT SMALLER IS IT'S GOTTA BE RAISED SO WATER DOESN'T GET IN IT.

AND IF WE HAVE TO TAKE DOWN THE EXISTING CONCRETE THAT IT'S BUILT ON TOP OF AND MOVE IT OVER THREE FEET, IT'S GONNA COST SO MUCH MORE MONEY THAT WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO BUILD AS NICE A GARAGE AS WE WANT TO BUILD.

THAT LOOKS HISTORIC LIKE THE ORIGINAL DID.

DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S SAYING YOU HAVE TO CHOP THREE FEET OFF THE CONCRETE, YOU JUST HAVE TO MOVE THE BUILDING.

SO, UM, SO CAN YOU SOFT, SOFT THAT THREE FEET OFF AND REMOVE THAT THROW THAT WAY? YES.

I MEAN IT CAN BE DONE.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF HOW MUCH MORE IT'S GONNA COST TO DO THAT AND THEN BUILD MORE CEMENT RISERS TO PUT THE GARAGE ON.

IS THERE A POSSIBILITY THAT ZONING WOULD ALLOW THE FOUNDATION TO STAY AS IS AND BUILD ON EXISTING FOUNDATION? NO.

AS LONG AS YOU STAY THREE FEET AWAY FROM A PROPERTY LINE, THE FOUNDATION DOESN'T HAVE TO MOVE JUST THE BUILDING.

YES, CORRECT.

I WAS JUST GOING TO, I'M JASON HOLTON, I'M SOUTHERN HOMES OF NEW BERN.

I WAS JUST GONNA ADD TO IT THAT WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, THE SLAB, UM, IT'S GOT A PROBABLY A SIX INCH WIDE, UM, AND IT'S PROBABLY FOUR TO SIX INCHES TALL ALL THE WAY AROUND THE PERIMETER WHERE IT'S RAISED UP, UM, ALMOST A CURB.

IF, IF WE HAD TO, UH, REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING, THAT WOULD BE TAKEN AWAY.

THE PROBLEM IS WITH THAT IS THE ACTUAL LAND IS, UH, THE, THE SLAB IS SET DOWN LOWER THAN THE EXISTING GROUND.

SO WITH THE WAY THEY HAVE IT NOW, WHERE IT'S BUILT UP SIX INCHES, IT'S ACTUALLY KEEPING THE WATER FROM RUNNING OFF FROM THE EXISTING LAND.

SO IF YOU DID AWAY WITH THAT, IT'S GONNA BE CONSIDERABLY LOWER ON THAT SIDE.

BUT I

[00:50:01]

YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE THE BUILDING SAYING THERE, THERE'S THAT CURB OR, OR WHATEVER THAT SITS ON.

YOU'VE GOT A CURBING.

SO YOU HAVE TO PUT A NEW CURB GO ON.

WELL, YEAH, YOU'D HAVE TO I GUESS CUT IT OFF AND BACK THE THREE FEET AND THEN BUILD THAT BACK UP.

BUT I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT SETBACKS.

THAT'S RIGHT.

THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WE CAN, CAN DO.

AND THAT WAS THE POINT I WAS GONNA MAKE.

LOOK, YOU NEED TO PLANNING AND ZONING.

WE DON'T, WE CAN'T DETERMINE THAT.

WE CAN'T OVERRIDE THAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON OKAY.

YOU KNOW, MASS SCALE PROPORTION OF THE, OF THE STRUCTURE.

SO PLANNING AND ZONING, I MEAN, PLANNING'S ONLY DOES THEIR THING AND THEN THEY SAY, OKAY, HERE'S, YOU KNOW, HERE'S WHERE IT COMPLIES OR DOESN'T COMPLY.

SO IT'S, WE'RE WE'RE TALKING TWO SEPARATE THINGS.

YOU KNOW, THREE FOOT SETBACK.

WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SAY ON THAT AT ALL.

AND SADLY ENOUGH, IF YOU HAD MANAGED TO REBUILD THAT THING INSIDE THE ALUMINUM SIDING, IT WOULD BE GRANDFATHERED IN AND IT COULD STAY THERE.

BUT YOU CAN'T BUILD A NEW ONE WHERE THAT ONE WAS.

SO, SO, SO WHERE, OKAY, SO WE WANNA TALK ABOUT THE DESIGN OF THE, OF THE BUILDING, RIGHT? RIGHT.

SO, UM, WHAT'S, UM, SO CAN YOU GIVE US AN IDEA? IT'S PROBABLY ON HERE, WHAT THE MATERIALS ARE THAT, WHAT'S THE SIDING ON HERE? SEE THE ROOFING IS METAL STANDING SCENE.

IT'S GOT A PANEL, UH, LOCK STANDING SCENE ROOF ON IT.

UH, FOR THE HISTORICAL PART OF IT.

UM, IT'S GOT SEVEN INCH SMART LAP SIDING.

UM, IT WOULD BE, UH, THE WINDOWS, UH, AROUND THE TRIM AND ALL WOULD BE SIX INCH, UM, TRIM AROUND THOSE HAVE THE DOUBLE DOORS.

UM, WHAT, I'M SORRY, WHAT'S A SMART LAP SIDING? SMART LAP SIDING.

UM, WHAT MATERIAL IS, IS IS ORIENTED STRAND BOARD WITH A, IT'S GOT A FACTORY FINISH ON THE OUTSIDE.

IT'S GOT LIKE A WOOD GRAIN ON IT AND IT'S PRE-PRIMED AND IT, AND IT'S MADE OUT OF, IS IT, IS IT LIKE AN, UM, IT'S LIKE OSB? IT IS LIKE OSB ORIGINALLY.

AND THEN THEY PUT A, I I COVER IT OVER, FINISH ON TOP OF THAT.

BUT THE, THE BUILDING WILL BE SHEETED AS WELL AND HOUSE WRAPPED, UH, BEFORE THAT GOES ON.

SO CONTEMPORARY MATERIAL, CONTEMPORARY.

AND IT WILL BE PAINTED WHITE.

SO I THINK WE, FOR THAT KIND OF MATERIAL, WE ASK THAT IT BE A FLAT, UH, SMOOTH.

BUT IT IS WOOD, SO THAT'S YES, SIR.

WELL, WELL WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT A, YOU KNOW, A ANNUAL STRUCTURE HERE.

IT COULD BE, IT COULD BE HARDY BOARD IF YOU WANT BE HARDY BOARD.

COULD BE.

YEAH, YOU COULD IF YOU WANT CHOOSE TO.

THE KEY THING IS, IS I GUESS, UH, ONE OF YOU SAID WAS THAT SMOOTH SURFACE.

YEAH, THE WOOD GRAIN SURFACE.

I UNDERSTAND.

SO WE DO, UH, HAVE SOME REQUIREMENTS FOR THE METAL ROOFING, UH, EVEN FOR NEW, NEW STRUCTURES LIKE THIS, THAT THE PAN, THE PANS HAVE TO, TO BE TOTALLY FLAT.

NO CORRUGATION, NO RADIATION, NOTHING AND CANNOT BE GREATER THAN 24 INCHES BETWEEN THE, BETWEEN THE STANDING SEAMS. YES, SIR.

PROBABLY WHAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT YOU'RE PLANNING TO DO ANYWAY.

YES, SIR.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE, WE, WE DO NEED TO SEE THOSE ON THE PLANS SO THAT WHEN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, THAT WE CAN COME BACK AND DOOR.

AND, AND WHAT SIZE DID YOU SAY THE, UH, THE, THE TRIM IS AROUND THE WINDOWS? SIX.

SIX? UH, SIX.

IT'S ONE BY SIX.

DOES IT SAY THAT ON THERE? I'M NOT SURE IF IT DOES ON THAT ONE OR NOT.

SO ANYTHING YOU SAY, IF YOU COULD PLEASE THEN MAKE SURE IT'S ON YOUR DRAWINGS AND IT COULD JUST BE A NOTE SOMEWHERE.

NOTHING FORMAL.

CAN YOU SCROLL UP A LITTLE BIT? I THINK IT'S, LEMME SOMETHING.

HOPE YOUR EYES ARE BETTER THAN MINE.

CAN YOU, WE JUST STOP RIGHT THERE.

SAID SOMETHING ABOUT WHY, UM, THE MATERIAL 61.

WE WANT ANOTHER MATERIAL FOR THE DOORS.

THEY HAD EXISTING DOORS, UM, THAT WE WERE GOING TO TRY TO REUSE.

UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S GONNA BE, UH, WE'RE GONNA BE CAPABLE OF DOING THAT NOW THAT WE'RE REDUCING THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING.

WE MIGHT HAVE TO GO DOWN THE ONE DOOR.

BUT, BUT STILL YOU REUSE THE SAME DOOR.

[00:55:01]

OR OR MAYBE IT'S A LARGER NEW DOOR POSSIBLY IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO.

OR MAYBE A LARGER NEW DOOR.

RIGHT? RIGHT.

UM, LET'S SEE.

THE, UH, THE WIND WINDOWS ARE MADE.

YOU GUYS ALREADY ASKED THAT.

WHAT ARE THE WINDOWS DATA? NO, BUT I'D LIKE TO KNOW.

UM, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE REQUIREMENT IS ON THAT.

SO NO REQUIREMENT.

UM, I NO REQUIREMENT.

WILL THERE BE NEW CONSTRUCTION? YOU CAN USE VINYL WINDOWS IF YOU WANT.

NEW CONSTRUCTION.

SO JUST HAVE TELL US THAT ON THE, ON THE DRAWINGS.

THE DRAWINGS JUST HAVE TO TELL US ALL THESE THINGS.

I MEAN, VISUALLY IT LOOKS, LOOKS NICE.

AND MATT, WHO WOULD HE TALK TO? I MEAN, 'CAUSE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT DOES DEAL WITH THINGS, BUT WHO, WHO SHOULD HE TALK TO IN UH, PLANNING? ITS ZONING.

THEY'RE ALREADY TALKED.

THEY ARE.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

BECAUSE THERE'S THE POTENTIAL ISSUE OF AN ENCROACHMENT ACROSS THE PROPERTY.

BY, BY THREE FEET.

, THAT'S AN OPTION TOO.

WELL, NO, I THINK IT'S MAYBE MORE LIKE A FOOT OR TWO, BUT, OKAY.

WELL, UM, AND THEN, UH, LET'S SEE THE, UH, OH, SO THE MUD TINS, SO THE CROSS MEMBERS IN THE, IN THE GLASS.

YOU CAN EITHER DO THE, THE TRUE DIVIDED LIGHTS OR UM, YOU'LL HAVE FOUR.

YOU DO, UH, NOT FLAT S BUT YOU DO WHAT WE CALL THREE DIMENSIONAL.

YOU HAVE A PROFILE ON THEM.

AND YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GONNA USE DOUBLE FLAT, DOUBLE GLAZING ARE NO, YEAH.

IS IT ALL TO HAVE THE GRIDS IN 'EM? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEP.

BUT THAT THE THREE DIMENSIONAL, NOT FLAT.

CALL SOMEONE ABOUT THAT.

AND ALL THE CORNER BOARDS OF THE SIX INCH WIDE ONE BY SIX LIST AS WELL.

AWESOME.

HOW ABOUT THE, DID WE GET TO THE RAKE AND THE WELL THE RAKE? YEAH, THE RAKE WILL BE ONE BY EIGHT.

AGAIN, WE CAN JUST MAKE SURE THAT'S ALL PUT ON THOSE DRAWINGS.

YES, SIR.

ON EIGHT DRAWING SOMEWHERE.

AND CAN YOU JUST LOOKING AT THE, THE OLD SHED, IT LOOKED LIKE JUST HAD ONE OVER ONE WINDOWS.

UM, THE HOUSE LOOKS LIKE IT HAS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

YOU, YOU COULD MATCH THAT.

I MEAN IF YOU WANT TO, BUT WE DON'T.

IT'S JUST, IT WHAT USED TO BE ONE BY ONE.

I'LL JUST POINT THAT OUT.

ANYTHING ELSE? ANYBODY? DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMISSIONERS, ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY.

SO KEEP WORKING WITH MATT AND JUST LET HIM KNOW WHERE YOU STAND.

MY WIFE BULB HAS TO BE WHITE.

AND THANK YOU AND GOOD LUCK WORKING WITH THE ZONING DEPARTMENT.

YEAH, YEAH.

GOOD LUCK.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW THAT WE CAN'T IN TWO WEEKS, UM, WE COULD DO MAKE A DECISION ON THIS SO WE COULD PUT YOU ON THE AGENDA, BUT WE CAN'T MAKE A DECISION THAT THERE ISN'T A RESOLUTION TO THE ZONING.

YOU SAID BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? THAT WELL, I MEAN THAT'S, THEY DO, THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE, YOU'D BE REFERRED BY THE GUY IN PLANNING AND ZONING.

YEAH, NO.

SO HOPEFULLY YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THERE.

UM, BUT THAT WOULD DELAY THIS.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S SOME EASY, SO RELATIVELY EASY SOLUTIONS TO AVOID GOING TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

ALRIGHT, GOOD LUCK.

SO I GOT THAT FOR THE REGULAR MEETING TOO.

IF IT'S NOT READY, THEN AGAIN CONTINUATION.

FRONT STREET QUEENS POINT.

ALL RIGHT.

C IS 7 48 EAST

[3. A. 748 E. Front St. (Queen’s Point) – replacement windows in non-contributing structure in the Primary AVC. ]

UH, SO THE, UH, THE APPLICANTS ARE NOT HERE.

AND LET ME JUST COMMENT ON THAT.

MATT AND I HAVE BEEN GOING BACK AND FORTH, TURNS OUT THAT THE, THE APPLICATION WAS IN ON TIME.

HE INITIALLY THOUGHT IT WAS NOT.

BUT IF I LOOK AT THE RULES OF PROCEDURE CLOSELY, HE CAN RECOMMEND THAT THE APPLICANT MEET WITH THE HPC.

HE IS NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE THE APPLICANT MEET WITH THE HPC IN A DESIGN REVIEW.

SO GIVEN RIGHT.

AND HE'S IN GREENSBORO JUST TO CHANGE SOME WINDOWS.

AND SO I THOUGHT WE COULD LOOK AT IT, SEE WHAT WHAT IT'S ABOUT, AND SEE IF WE HAVE ANY ISSUES MM-HMM .

UH,

[01:00:01]

AND THEN GO FROM THERE.

THEY'RE JUST REQUIRED TO SEND US A WRITTEN REQUEST TO, UM, TO CONDUCT OUR DISCUSSION WITHOUT THEM PRESENT.

WE, WE LOOKED AT, 'CAUSE AGAIN, YOU KNOW, DESIGN REVIEW, THERE'S NO PUBLIC COMMENT OR ANY INPUT FROM THE PUBLIC.

IT'S JUST US AND THEM.

AND SO IF THEY'RE WILLING TO HAVE US HAVE THE DISCUSSION WITHOUT THEM JUST AMONGST OURSELVES, UH, BUT IT'S TOUGH TO ANSWER QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING ELSE BUT RIGHT.

THEN WE, I'LL JUST HAVE TO IMAGINE WHAT THEIR ANSWERS AND, BUT UM, WE TALKED ABOUT ZOOM YESTERDAY.

YOU COULD BE, BUT THERE'S SOME ISSUES IN THIS BY USING THIS ROOM WITH ZOOM, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A SET UP THAT'S CORRECT.

TO TO RECORD WHAT THEY SAY OR, OR SHOW THEIR IMAGE OR, AND, AND IT, THE ENTIRE MEETING GOES THROUGH THIS MICROPHONE SO YOU GUYS WOULD'VE TO YELL LOUD ENOUGH FOR IT TO, SO IT'S LIKE NO.

SO WE, WE MADE A DECISION YESTERDAY AND, AND UH, BUT IF THEY COME, IF THEY PROCEED TO THE HEARING, THEY'LL HAVE TO BE AT THE HEARING SOMEWHERE.

HAVE TO BE.

AND SO THIS IS THEIR REQUEST THERE.

AND IN THE END, UH, AFTER I LOOKED AT THIS AND DISCUSSED IT WITH THEM OVER MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE EMAILS, UM, IT WASN'T A REPAIR JOB REPLACING WINDOWS.

IT WASN'T A REPLACEMENT IN KIND 'CAUSE UH, THE MATERIAL WAS DIFFERENT.

UH, SO THE EXISTING WINDOWS ARE WOOD.

UH, THE BUILDING WAS BUILT IN 1997 ACCORDING TO THE, THE GIS, UH, THE, THE COUNTY RECORDS.

UM, AND UM, THE MATERIAL THEY ARE PROPOSING WAS AVAILABLE IN 1995.

SO, UM, THAT MEANS THAT IT MEETS THE REQUIREMENT OF A MATERIAL THAT WAS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME THE BUILDING WAS BUILT.

SO, UM, THAT WAS THE HANGUP THAT, UM, WENT BACK AND FORTH FOR QUITE A WHILE BEFORE WE FIGURED THAT OUT.

AND THEN, UH, SO THEN I HAD TO TELL HIM THAT SINCE WINDOW REPLACEMENTS AREN'T ON THE, UH, MINOR WORK LIST, THEY HAD TO COME IN AND UH, FOR A MAJOR.

SO, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THAT THEN LATER AS POTENTIALLY THE KIND OF THING WE CAN MAKE A MINOR IN THE FUTURE, BUT FROM .

WELL I THINK, I THINK THAT UNFORTUNATELY I ASKED THAT WE DELAY OUR MINOR WORK CHANGE LAST MONTH 'CAUSE THERE WERE SOME BACK AND FORTH ABOUT ISSUES.

WANTED TO SEE IT IN FRONT OF US.

AND ONE OF THOSE WOULD'VE BEEN THAT MATT COULD CHANGE CONGRUOUS TO CONGRUOUS MATERIAL, WHICH THIS WOULD BE ONE, ONE CON BRUCE MATERIAL FOR ANOTHER.

SO, UM, SO IF WE PASS THAT AT THE FIRST, AT THE NEXT MEETING, WE'LL COVER THAT.

SO, UH, THE ONLY OTHER ISSUE, AND I THINK JIM BROUGHT THIS UP, WAS, UM, HE NOTICED THAT YOU CAN'T TELL IF THE S HAVE THE THREE DIMENSIONAL, UM, CHARACTERISTIC AND THE SHADOW BAR, WHICH IS THE PIECE, WHAT THEY CALL THE PIECE IN BETWEEN THE TWO PANES OF GLASS BECAUSE UH, THEY TYPICALLY DON'T DESCRIBE THAT AND WHEN THEY'RE DESCRIBING THE PROJECT AND THEN THEY TYPICALLY DON'T, UM, EVEN HAVE IT WHEN THEY'RE TELLING THEIR INSTALLATION PEOPLE WHAT TO INSTALL, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

EVEN THE OR.

AND THEN IT ONLY COMES DOWN TO THE ORDER FORM, WHICH IS FULL OF CODES, RIGHT.

LETTER CODES.

SO, UM, IT JUST TURNS OUT TO BE ALMOST POSSIBLE TO FIGURE OUT.

SO WE WILL ASK THEM.

YEAH, IT DOES SAY GRILLS BETWEEN GLASS.

SO THAT TO ME MEANS SHADOW BAR THAT BG MEANS.

OH, OKAY.

I BOUGHT ANDERSON WINDOWS.

SO WE HAVE THAT, BUT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE, UH, PROFILE.

YEAH, IT DIDN'T, DIDN'T, THAT'S ONLY THING THAT'S LEFT FOR THEM TO CLARIFY.

SO WHAT MATERIAL IS THIS? IS THIS IT'S FIVE FIBER, WHICH IS A COMBINATION OF WOOD FIBER, WOOD AND PLASTIC AND POLYMERS.

WOOD IN ONE CASE IS DESCRIBED IT AS VINYL AND IT'S, IT'S WOOD AND VINYL IN OUR UH, NOT THAT YOU SAWDUST TO DO THAT PROBABLY.

WITH FIBER ONLY WHEN THEY CAN'T GET THE CHEAP STUFF.

THAT'S SLURRY.

SLURRY.

BUT IT, IT IS, UH, I MEAN THE APPEARANCE LOOKS LIKE A PAINTED WINDOW.

WELL JIM, YOU OWN THEM, RIGHT? YES.

IS IT PAINTABLE? UH, WELL THEY CAN MAKE IT IN.

NO, I MEAN MEAN IS IT, CAN I BELIEVE SO? CAN A PROPERTY OWNER PAINT IT OR IS IT LIKE A I BELIEVE SO.

LIKE A VINYL THAT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO PAINT.

WE DIDN'T GET INTO THAT.

I CAN'T SAY YOU PAINT YEARS AND HOW OLD ARE YOUS? TWO YEARS.

OH, OKAY.

TWO FOR AT LEAST THREE OF US.

SO, ALRIGHT.

BUT I MEAN JUST I'M HAPPY BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, THIS, BUT THIS IS NOT, IT'S NOT A, UM, CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER

[01:05:01]

DO YOU REMEMBER THE QUEENS POINT CONDOS CAME TO US AND ASKED IF THEY COULD USE CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS ON THEIR BALCONIES AND WE AGREED BACK THEN SIX, EIGHT YEARS AGO.

YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S NON-CONTRIBUTING INSTRUCTION.

UH, AND SO THERE IS SOME CONTEMPORARY MATERIAL THERE.

YEAH, I MEAN THE, TO ME THE BIG THING IS IF THEY'RE MAINTAINING THE SAME SASH STYLES, THEY ARE, UH, 2 0 2, THERE'S, THERE'S SUCH A, A WIDE LANE FOR, UH, NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES, UH, TO MEAN THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING IS MAINTAINING THE SAME SASH STYLES.

AND SO THAT'S WHY IT WENT BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN US FOR A WHILE.

'CAUSE THEY WERE THAT CLOSE TO EXACT CHOICE.

MANKIND.

SO IT HAS A SCREEN, UH, IT'S, IT'S, SO IT'S OPERABLE ALL THAT.

SO IT'S THREE, THREE BY TWO ON THE TOP AND NOTHING ON THE BOTTOM, SO MM-HMM .

WHICH IS THE WAY THEY ARE NOW.

AND THESE ARE SECONDARY AND TERTIARY ONE THE BUILDING.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE? USED TO BE REPLACING WINDOWS EVERY, ALL AROUND? NO.

I DON'T THINK SO.

I'M JUST ASKING.

IT'S JUST ONE CUT, ONE OWNER WITHIN THE CONDO.

IT, IT'S NOT CHANGING.

CONGRESS TO CONGRESS MATERIAL.

SO TOTAL OF 11 WINDOWS FOR THEIR ONE UNIT.

SO ANY ISSUES WITH THIS? GO INTO THE HEARING? NO, NO, NO.

AND THEN WE'LL TRY TO ADDRESS THAT IN THAT MINOR WORKS LIST.

COOL.

I, I HAD EVEN MORE STUFF THAT WAS IN THE FOLDER, THIS PRESENTATION IN CASE SOMETHING CAME.

SO I

[4. A. Presentation by Wade Rogers, SHPO Restoration Specialist, on Paint and Stain ]

SO WITH THAT, WE ARE DOWN TO BOARD DISCUSSION ITEMS. THERE'S NO INFORMAL DESIGN DESIGN DISCUSSION PEOPLE TODAY AND WADE IS NOT COMING.

I THOUGHT WADE WAS HERE.

HE JUMPED RIGHT OVER THAT.

I'M THINKING.

WELL, WE'RE READY FOR YOU IF YOU ARE , YOU, YOU COULD WAIT A WHILE.

YOU, YOU'RE AN HBC, YOU'RE USED TO WAITING SO'S I STILL GOTTA GET THE UH, UM, PRESENTATION ON YOUR FLASH DRIVE.

OH.

AND LET ME JUST ASK, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT FINDING? WE GOT FROM, UH, PARK SERVICE FOR THE BUILDING ON CRAVEN STREET ABOUT THE BRICKS? UH, THE ONE, THE, UH, YOU TALKING ABOUT LEFT FRONT STREET? YEAH.

NOT, YEAH, NOT ON, NOT ON OUR AGENDA.

IT WAS, UH, 2 0 6 CRAVEN, 2 0 6 CRAVEN.

2 0 6 CRAVEN STREET.

UM, TO ONE, THE ONE BUILDING WHERE THEY DID PUT, UM, CAN YOU TALK IN THE MICROPHONE GUYS? YEAH.

THE ONE BUILDING WHERE THEY DID PUT THE, UH, THE STAIN ON THE MASONRY OF THE BRICK.

YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT? AND THEN THE WHAT HE'S ACTUALLY SPECIFICALLY ASKING ABOUT IS THE, UM, EMAIL WITH PARK SERVICE WHERE THEY, WITH PARK SERVICE SUGGESTED THAT THEY USED STAIN AND THE APPLICANT HAD NOT COME TO US.

WENT STRAIGHT TO THEM.

AND APPARENTLY NOT TO SHIPPO U NO.

UM, SO, SO IT REALLY RAISED A LOT OF ISSUES, PARTICULARLY IN TOWN ABOUT TREATING BRICKS.

'CAUSE IT WAS THE TAX CREDIT PROJECT, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY THEY WENT TO THE MPS FIRST.

THEY WERE PROBABLY CONFUSED THAT THEY HAD TO TALK TO EVERYBODY.

UH, BECAUSE MPS IS THE ONE THAT, I MEAN, IT'S THAT THOSE HALF THE CREDITS COME FROM THE FED.

THEY WERE VERY WELL INTENTIONED, YOU KNOW, WELL INTENTIONED.

BUT JUST GOT DOWN THAT PATH AND THEN SHE SAID WHAT THEY WANTED TO HEAR.

I WAS, UH, BLIND COPIED ON THE EMAIL WITH OUR, UH, TPS SPECIALIST WITH NPS AND, UM, I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS BLIND AND I JUST RESPONDED.

ANYWAY, SO I OPENED THE SHIPPO CAN OF WORMS ON THAT EMAIL.

UH, BUT SHE WAS, SHE WAS FULLY WILLING TO TALK TO ME.

I OFFERED TO COME TO THE PROPERTY, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD SENT, HAVEN'T HEARD BACK.

SO, WELL, IT'S, IT'S DONE.

ALMOST LIKE DENYING AN ALREADY DEMOLISHED STORAGE SHED.

AND FROM A HBC STANDPOINT, WE DID DENY IT, BUT ACKNOWLEDGE THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

[01:10:02]

WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING DOWN.

THOSE FOLKS COULD HAVE BENEFITED FROM THIS TALK.

AND IF YOU NOTICE, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF, UH, UM, GOSH, MURALS NOW, BUT WE'RE ONLY IF THEY COME TO US, ONLY ALLOWING THEM ON PREVIOUSLY PAINTED MASONRY.

AND SO IDEALLY WE WOULD HOPEFULLY MAYBE, UH, ASK, UM, YOU TO COME BACK AND DO SOME PRESENTATIONS TO A COUPLE OF, UH, LOCAL NEIGHBORHOOD ORGANIZATIONS.

YEAH, SURE.

MAYBE YOU CAN BACK TO ORGANIZATIONS.

GONNA PUT THIS ON THE FLASH DRIVE THIS WEEKEND.

WE'RE ALL GONNA GO OVER TO TIM'S HOUSE AND PAINT HIS HOUSE.

PARDON? WE'RE GONNA GO OVER IS THIS TIM'S HOUSE THIS WEEKEND? PARDON? ANY ANYWHERE YOU WANT.

WE'RE GONNA GO TO YOUR HOUSE THIS WEEKEND.

PAINT YOUR HOUSE TO STOW AWAY.

ABSOLUTELY ALL.

I GOT SOME LATEX LEFT.

I THINK IT'D BE PERFECT.

SPRING RAINY COMING.

EXACTLY.

AND, UH, YOU WOULD'VE, TOYOTA ARE LOOKING FOR SOME BILLBOARDS.

WELL, I'M GLAD WE TALKED ABOUT THIS.

ANY CAN ONLY SO ANYBODY WANT GO BREAK? I MEAN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME BEFORE, WHAT'S THAT? USE THE RESTROOM.

JUST REMEMBER THE MICS ARE ON.

WE WE'RE STILL HAVING OUR MEETING.

SO STILL BLINKING AWAY HERE.

WHAT YOU GET FOR A THREE TERABYTE.

WE'RE, WE'RE WAY AHEAD.

DON'T BE, UH, INTIMIDATED BY THE AMOUNT OF SLIDES.

THIS IS NOT MY PAINT PROGRAM.

I'VE BEEN IN THE FIELD MOST OF THE LAST THREE MONTHS AND HAVEN'T HAD TIME TO BUILD MY OWN.

SO THIS IS RE THOMAS'S AND I'M ONLY, I'M GONNA SCROLL THROUGH THE ONES THAT I THINK ARE PERTINENT FOR NEWBURN.

SO YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE TO HEAR ME TALK ABOUT ALL 146 OF THESE THAT'S ABOVE THE CR.

I MIGHT ENJOY THAT THOUGH.

BETTER THAN WHAT WE THAT'S JOHN.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

WHAT'S THAT, RICHARD? BETTER THAN WHAT WE USUALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT RESIDENTIAL ON THE CHALKBOARD.

PRICE WILL SHUT.

I MEAN, IT SHOW WE ADVERTISE CATER DINNER.

I BE RIGHT, BUT NOT WE'RE, DO I TAKE IT OUT OR DO I HAVE TO RELEASE IT WHILE WE'RE KIND OF IN A BREAK? I DO WANT TO REMIND YOU TUESDAY NIGHT, FIVE 30 IS THE PUBLIC HEARING.

THAT'S HERE.

RIGHT HERE ON THE, UM, SAFE TO REMOVE.

THERE YOU GO.

UPDATES TO THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS.

SO PLEASE MAKE EVERY EFFORT, IF WE DON'T HAVE A QUORUM, WE CAN'T HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING.

SO PLEASE COME.

JULY 7TH.

AND THEN I'LL ASK MATT ALSO ON THE JULY AGENDA, BE SURE TO INCLUDE ELECTIONS.

MATT, WHAT? ELECTIONS ON THE JULY AGENDA.

OH.

DID EVERYBODY GET REAPPOINTED? YEAH.

WHAT'S THAT? GOT KICKED UP, I THINK.

DID EVERYBODY GET REAPPOINTED? GOT KICKED UP, I THINK.

AWESOME.

, MR. CHAIR OUT, OUT OF CURIOSITY, IS THERE A TIME LIMIT FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THAT MEETING? FOUR MINUTES.

WE'RE FOUR MINUTES.

GONNA TRY A SOFT FOUR MINUTES.

SO IS IS THE PLAN THAT, UM, UM, JESSICA IS GOING TO DO A, AN OPENING PRESENTATION.

THAT'S WHAT SHE TOLD US.

AND THEN, AND THEN WE'LL TURN OVER, ABLE TO CLICK THROUGH IT? OR DO I DO THAT COMMENTS, WHICH I CAN BE RECORDED.

RIGHT? BUT WE SHOULD PROBABLY TRY TO WRITE THEM DOWN BEST BETWEEN TWO.

YEAH, WE NEED A LIST.

HOW MANY POSTS, HOW MANY TESTS DO, WHAT'S THAT DELETED DONE YOU GET FROM THE CITY? ONE? I GOT FOUR AND THEN WE GOT TWO.

WHY'D YOU GET FOUR? I HAVE NO IDEA.

IT'S THE SAME ADDRESS ALL TO YOU.

OH, COOL.

THIS IS NOW THE, I THOUGHT, A WASTE OF MONEY.

THAT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT.

SO, YOU READY? I WANNA MAKE SURE I GET, UH, IT'S OPENING.

OPENING.

I GOT RIGHT INTO THE HISTORY FIELD, LITERALLY AS EARLY AS YOU CAN.

WELL, WHILE THAT'S OPENING, I'LL GO AHEAD AND INTRODUCE MYSELF TO THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW ME.

UH, MY NAME'S WADE ROGERS.

UM, I'M A RESTORATION SPECIALIST WITH THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE.

UH, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, I GREW UP HERE.

I'M FROM NEW BERN.

CAME HERE IN 1990 AND, UM, STARTED WORK AT 14.

STARTED VOLUNTEERING AT TRI PALACE.

[01:15:01]

UM, AND WORKED THERE FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS.

DOING, UH, MOSTLY IN THEIR TRADES PROGRAMS, WAS AT BLACKSMITHING, UH, TEXTILES, UM, CONSERVATION AND, UH, CARPENTRY.

AND, UH, FROM THERE, WENT TO EAST CAROLINA.

UM, GOT A PUBLIC HISTORY DEGREE AND KIND OF BOUNCED AROUND FOR A FEW YEARS AFTERWARDS TRYING TO FIND, YOU KNOW, THE ECONOMIC RECESSION.

THERE WAS VERY FEW MUSEUM JOBS OUT THERE.

WHEN I GRADUATED, I EVENTUALLY FOUND MY WAY INTO THE HISTORIC FILM INDUSTRY.

A FRIEND OF MINE, WE DID MOST OF THE VISITOR CENTER FILMS FOR REVOLUTIONARY WAR, UM, MUSEUMS UP AND DOWN THE EAST COAST.

SO MOUNT VERNON MUSEUM OF AMERICAN REVOLUTION IN PHILADELPHIA.

UH, THE BOSTON TEA PARTY MUSEUM.

UM, BUT MOSTLY JUST ALL, ALWAYS GOING BACK TO MOUNT VERNON.

UM, IT WAS THERE.

I KIND OF HONED MY SKILLS OF REPRODUCING HISTORIC ITEMS FOR SCREEN, FOR MUSEUMS, FOR DISPLAY.

AND, UH, EVENTUALLY WE KIND OF STUMBLED INTO OUR FIRST OLD HOUSE.

WE BOUGHT IT.

I, IT WAS MY WIFE'S IDEA.

I SAID, I'M NEVER GONNA BE DONE WITH THIS THING.

THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA.

UM, 'CAUSE WE HAD THEN LIVED IN EARN IN A BRICK RANCH.

AND, UH, WITHIN THREE MONTHS OF SENDING PEOPLE PHOTOGRAPHS AND ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT HISTORIC DETAILS, UH, I REALIZED IT WAS WHAT I CALL THE DORMANT DISEASE THAT HAD LIED WITHIN ME.

ALL ALONG IT INCLUDED EVERYTHING I LEARNED AT TRIUM PALACE AND ALL THE THINGS I LOVED, BUT NEATLY CONTAINED IN ONE BOX.

IT WAS IRON WORK, IT WAS FABRIC, IT WAS WOOD, AND IT WAS HISTORY.

SO TOTALLY FELL IN LOVE WITH IT.

UM, SATISFIES A LOT OF NEEDS.

UM, FROM THERE I WENT STRAIGHT INTO MORE OLD HOUSES.

I JUST, I COULDN'T GET ENOUGH OF IT.

WE BOUGHT ONE IN MARTIN COUNTY THAT WAS COVERED IN VINES, STARTED WORK ON THAT ONE, SPECIFICALLY FOCUSING ON EARLY STRUCTURES.

UM, AND EVENTUALLY THAT CAUGHT THE EYES OF LOCALS.

I STARTED DOING, UH, PRESERVATION IN EDENTON, NORTH CAROLINA, UH, AT THE CUPOLA HOUSE.

I WAS PART OF THE TEAM THAT BROUGHT BACK THE, UH, HISTORIC WOODWORK THAT THE BROOKLYN MUSEUM HAD FOR A HUNDRED.

AND WAS IT 108 YEARS, RICHARD? YEAH.

ABOUT THAT.

IT WAS A LONG TIME FOR HUNDRED YEARS.

SO I WAS PART OF THE TEAM THAT BROUGHT THAT WOODWORK BACK FROM BROOKLYN AND, UH, TOOK THE REPRODUCTION WOODWORK OUT AND PREPPED THE SPACE FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF THE ORIGINAL WOODWORK, UH, WHICH IS NOW ONGOING.

UM, AND I WAS ALSO INVOLVED WITH THE CA CHURCH, AMY ZION, UH, A E ZION CA CHURCH RESTORATION THAT WAS KNOCKED OFF HIS FOUNDATION BY ISABELLE.

IT GOT A GRANT FOR SACRED SPACES, UH, GRANT, UH, FOR MAYBE 5 MILLION.

IT'S AMAZING PRESERVATION PROJECT THERE IN EDENTON.

UM, AND I'M AL I WAS ALSO CONSULTING AT THE, UH, RECENTLY AS OF 2003, HAYES PLANTATION, WHICH IS OWNED BY THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA, DOING CONSULTING AND HANDS-ON WORK THERE.

UM, WE FINISHED OUR HOUSE IN EDENTON.

WE MOVED IN AND I WAS DONE WORKING IN THE FIELD FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

GOT THE JOB WITH SHIPPO IN DECEMBER.

UM, SO IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT SHIPPO DOES, ABOUT 40% OF WHAT WE DO IS STATE TAX CREDITS AND FEDERAL TAX CREDITS.

UM, GREAT THING IF YOU SEE SOMEONE COME BEFORE YOU AND THEY'RE DOING, IF THEY'RE A PRIVATE OWNER AND THEY'RE DOING MORE THAN $10,000 IN WORK, SUGGEST THEY CONTACT THE OFFICE, BECAUSE WHILE YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE INTERIOR PURVIEW, IF THEY'RE DOING TAX CREDITS, I DO.

AND I CAN MAKE SURE, UH, HISTORIC FABRIC DOESN'T GET JUST GUTTED WHOLESALE.

AND WE CAN WORK WITH THEM TO JUST GET A GOOD PLAN TO SAVE AS MUCH, UH, HISTORIC FABRIC AS POSSIBLE.

AND, UH, OTHER THAN THAT, UM, HELPING FOLKS LIKE YOU GUYS OUT AND JUST VISITING, UH, PROPERTY OWNERS THAT OWN HISTORIC BUILDINGS AND CONSULTING AND OFFERING TECHNICAL ADVICE.

UM, AND ALSO, I WAS ON THE BATH HPC FOR A COUPLE YEARS.

THE WHOLE TIME WE LIVED IN BATH.

THAT WAS WHERE WE HAD OUR FIRST OLD HOUSE.

THAT WAS THE CHAIR THERE BRIEFLY BEFORE WE MOVED TO EDENTON.

AND I'M ON THE EDENTON HPC CURRENTLY.

UM, SO I KNOW THE STRUGGLE.

SO PURE, PURE JOY.

PURE JOY.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT JOB THOUGH.

I THINK HE WAS, HE MENTIONED TO ME THAT HE WAS PREPARING SOME WORK, UH, SO A REPORT OR SOME PRESENTATION FOR THE EDENTON HPC ABOUT PAINT.

AND I SAID, OH, OPPORTUNITY.

SO FEEL FREE TO JUST ASK QUESTIONS AS IT COMES THROUGH.

THIS IS YOUR DRY RUN, SO TO SAY.

THIS IS THE .

THIS IS MORE PROFESSIONAL THAN EDENTON HPC.

I MEAN, THIS IS A MUCH NICER BUILDING.

UM, WE DON'T HAVE COMPUTER SCREENS, SO NOT BY OUR CHOICE, BY THE WAY.

NOT BY OUR CHOICE.

OH, WE'RE, WE'RE ANALOG IN EDENTON.

MAYBE WE SHOULD ENJOY THAT MORE.

UM, ANYWAY, SINCE IT'S SUCH A SMALL GROUP, I WANT THIS TO BE A LITTLE MORE INFORMAL.

[01:20:01]

AND I PROMISE I WON'T GO THROUGH ALL 146 SLIDES.

UH, IF THERE'S A LATEX PAINT SALESMAN IN THE AUDIENCE, UM, I'M, I'M, I I MEAN TO, UH, OFFEND YOU , TOTALLY CLEAR, RIGHT? , UH, THE DIFFICULTIES OF BEING AN HPC IS ADVISING FOLKS TO KEEP THEIR WOOD SIDING, KEEP THEIR WOODEN WINDOWS, KEEP THEIR ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS.

BUT THEN ONE OF THE THINGS WE TOTALLY OVERLOOK, AND IT'S OFTEN A MINOR WORK, IS STILL A MODERN WORK IN MOST, IS IT STILL A PAINT? IS IT STILL A MINOR WORK HERE? IT'S NOT, NOT EVEN, IT'S JUST MAINTENANCE.

IT, IT'S JUST MAINTENANCE.

UM, HEAVILY OVERLOOKED FOR DECADES.

AND I THINK IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT FULLY, OR WE'RE JUST NOW FULLY REALIZING THE DAMAGE THAT THESE PLASTIC PAINTS CAUSED TO HISTORIC FABRIC.

UM, SO WE'RE BEING NOW REACTIONARY.

I'M BEING REACTIONARY AND TELLING YOU GUYS, UM, THAT THIS STUFF IS TRULY DESTROYING OUR HISTORIC TOWNS, OUR HISTORIC DETAILS.

UH, THE SHED ON AVENUE A MM-HMM .

UM, THAT WAS PROBABLY COVERED WITH LATEX PAINT AND THE TERMITES GOT IN.

'CAUSE IT'S ALWAYS WET, ATE IT TO PIECES.

IF THEY HAD A PROPER PAINT FINISH ON THAT BUILDING, IT MIGHT BE STANDING.

UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, DEMANDING FOLKS KEEP THEIR WOODEN SIDING AND THEIR WOODEN WINDOWS.

BUT NOT BEING ABLE TO ASK THEM TO CONSIDER BETTER PAINTS OR HAVING NO PURVIEW OVER THOSE PAINTS, I FEEL LIKE IS A BIG MISSED OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE IT JUST STARTS A CYCLE OF FRUSTRATION WHERE, OF COURSE THE WINDOW ROTS OUT, OF COURSE THE SIDING ROTS OUT.

THE HOMEOWNER DOESN'T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING.

AND IT'S JUST THIS CYCLE OF, CAN I PLEASE DO REPLACEMENT WINDOWS? THIS STUFF DOESN'T ROT WHEN THE REAL PROBLEM, IT'S NOT THE WOOD, IT'S NOT THE OLD WINDOWS.

IT'S DEFINITELY THE PAINT.

UM, THE FIRST SLIDE YOU'RE SEEING, THIS IS THE PENELOPE BARKER HOUSE ON THE WATERFRONT IN EDENTON.

UM, AND THE, WHICH ELEVATION? THE WESTERN ELEVATION, THE NICE LOOKING ELEVATION, THAT'S LEN SEED OIL PAINT.

AND ON THE NORTHERN ELEVATION, THAT'S, UH, PEELING CHIPPY LATEX PAINT.

SO JUST YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, MATT.

THAT'S ANOTHER ONE WE CAN, WE CAN SKIP ON WITH THIS.

THIS IS, UH, THE ST.

PAUL'S RECTORY IN EDENTON.

UM, THAT'S HOW IT LOOKED WITH THIS FAILING PAINT.

THE, UM, THE GLAZING PUTTIES FAILING OUT OF THE WINDOWS.

THE DOOR WAS SO ROTTEN WHEN THEY TURNED THE KEY AND PUSHED THE DOOR OPEN.

THE HINGES, UH, WERE ROTTED OFF.

SO THE DOOR JUST FELL INTO THE ROOM.

THE TERMITES HAD GONE UP AND DOWN THAT SO BADLY BECAUSE ALL THAT LATEX PAINT WAS STRAP AND MOISTURE IN THE WOOD SIDING AND THE WOODEN TIMBERS.

SO I'M SURE YOU'VE SEEN BUILDINGS LIKE THIS AROUND TOWN.

MATT, THIS IS ANOTHER BUILDING.

THEY DID A REALLY GOOD JOB.

SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE A BIG FAN OF THE LENSE PRODUCTS.

I AM.

I'M AND YOU'VE BEEN USING 'EM ALL ALONG MM-HMM .

IN YOUR DIFFERENT HOUSES.

UH, WHEN WE BOUGHT OUR FIRST OLD HOUSE, I TOLD MYSELF, AND I TOLD MY WIFE, SHE ROLLED HER EYES.

I SAID, I WANNA GET THE BEST PAINT ON PLANET EARTH FOR THIS HOUSE.

'CAUSE I FINALLY NOW UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT THESE OLD BUILDINGS ARE.

AND I WAS TRULY THINKING THE TOP OF THE LINE, VALSPAR.

THAT'S WHAT I HAD IN MY HEAD, .

AND, UM, I DIDN'T, THANKFULLY DIDN'T GET AROUND TO PAINTING THE HOUSE THE FIRST YEAR.

UH, BUT IT WAS THE SECOND AND THIRD YEAR I FOUND LINDSAY OLD PAINT.

THERE WAS A FRIEND PAINTING THEIR HOUSE UP IN NEW JERSEY.

THEY HAD A 1820S, UH, TAVERN.

THEY WERE RESTORING.

AND IT TOTALLY CLICKED.

I GOT MY, UH, I USE LEN SEEDLE ALL THE TIME AT TRIUM PALACE FOR WOODWORK, UH, FOR FURNITURE RESTORATION.

AND I SAID, OF COURSE, THIS MAKES SENSE.

IT'S OF THE PERIOD.

IT'S, IT'S COMPATIBLE.

UM, IT'S THE LEN SEED OIL MIXED WITH JUST LEN SEED OIL.

SO, UH, LIN LINSEED OIL PAINT IS LINSEED OIL AND NATURAL PIGMENTS.

AND THAT'S ALL IT IS.

UM, YOU CAN THIN IT DOWN WITH TURPENTINES AND MAKE IT GROW OR GO A LITTLE FURTHER.

UM, BUT THAT'S ALL LINSEED OIL PAINT IS, AND IT'S ALMOST THAT'S THE POINT.

IT'S, WE'VE HAD, YOU KNOW, GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO CAVE PAINTINGS WHERE THEY'RE MIXING OIL WITH CHARCOAL, THAT STUFF STILL SURVIVES.

THE, THE STUFF IN POMPEI, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT WAS A DISTEMPER OR AN OIL PAINT, THAT STUFF STILL SURVIVES.

UM, THE PLASTIC PAINTS JUST AREN'T GONNA SURVIVE THE SAME.

BUT THIS, THE OIL PAINT HAS THIS LONG, LONG, LONG LIFESPAN OF, UH, CONTINUED USE.

THIS INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE THAT THE WORLD HAS KIND OF FORGOTTEN SINCE POST WORLD WAR II.

WE'VE TOTALLY TRANSITIONED TO MODERN SYNTHETIC PAINTS.

SO, SO LIKE THE OIL PAINT THAT YOU, THAT PEOPLE BUY, IT'S NOT LIN SEED, BUT WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIN SEED OIL PAINT AND REGULAR OIL PRIME KIND OF THING? AND LIKE,

[01:25:01]

EXCUSE ME.

WE, WE, WE DO SUGGEST STUFF LIKE SOMETIMES, I MEAN, NOT EVERYBODY'S THE CASE FOR LINSEED OIL PAINT.

I FEEL LIKE STILL, AS OF TODAY, IT'S STILL A VERY NICHE PRODUCT.

UM, BUT LIKE A CABOT OIL SOLID STAIN, I'LL SUGGEST THAT ON A HUGE BUILDING.

WHILE I KNOW LINDSEY OIL IS THE BEST, BUT IT'S HARD TO CONVINCE PROPERTY OWNERS OR HUGE INVESTORS IF THEY'RE RESTORING, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, LIKE A HUGE COTTON MILL FOR APARTMENTS.

IT'S HARD TO CONVINCE THEM TO USE THIS NICHE ORGANIC TYPE PRODUCT.

UM, BUT OIL PAINTS NOWADAYS, THERE ARE POLYMERS, OIL, OIL POLYMERS, UM, THEY'RE NOT BAD.

THEY'RE NOT THE BEST.

LINSE OIL IS THE BEST 'CAUSE IT ALLOWS THAT THE WOOD TO BREATHE THE MOST.

UM, BUT IT'S, IT'S, IT'S STILL ACCEPTABLE.

SO, SO GO AHEAD.

LEN OIL IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN AN OIL PAINT.

MAYBE, MAYBE MORE GETTING DRY.

LET ME APOLOGIZE FOR MAKING THE STAND THE MICROPHONE.

OH NO, THIS IS FINE.

I SIT ALL DAY.

UM, SO THE, THE POINT WITH LINSEED OIL IS, IT, IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE WHEN YOU LOOK, YOU'RE BUYING IT BY THE THREE LITER BUCKET, WHICH IS LESS THAN A GALLON.

AND IT'S USUALLY LIKE $189 OR $200.

AND THEN YOU STILL GOTTA PAY TO SHIP IT.

THAT SOUNDS CRAZY.

WHAT YOU NEED TO LOOK AT IS BREAK IT DOWN BY SQUARE FOOTAGE.

THAT'S THE KEY.

UM, IF YOU 'CAUSE LINSE PAINT GOES DOUBLE TO TRIPLE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF LATEX PAINT, UM, THE BUILDING YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU, I COULD PAINT THAT ONE COAT ON THAT ENTIRE FACADE WITH PROBABLY ONE THREE LITER, UH, CAN OF PAINT.

AND YOU'D PROBABLY NEED TWO TO THREE GALLONS OF LATEX PAINT FOR A SINGLE COAT.

AND THEN EVERY SUCCESSIVE COAT YOU NEED ABOUT THREE COATS FOR LEN ADULT FINISH.

EVERY SUCCESSIVE COAT NEEDS LESS AND LESS PAINT TO THE LAST COAT.

THAT THIRD COAT, YOU'RE BASICALLY JUST SLICKING IT ON AND IT GOES SO FAR, YOU'RE, YOU'RE BRUSHING 90% OF THE TIME AND DIPPING 10% OF THE TIME.

SO IT REALLY DRAGS REALLY FAR.

SO WAYNE, ARE YOU, ARE YOU FINDING TWO, TWO QUESTIONS? ARE YOU STARTING TO SEE LOCAL BUSINESSES, UH, STOCK LINSEED, OIL PAINT? NOT YET.

NOT YET.

I, YOU KNOW, I STILL THINK WE'RE, IT'S STILL NICHE ENOUGH.

BUT WHAT I HAVE SEEN IS WHEN I FIRST STARTED PAINTING WITH LINSEED OLD PAINT, UM, I'M PREPARING OUR FOURTH, OUR, OUR FOURTH BUILDING TO HAVE PAINTED WITH LINSEED OLD PAINT.

UH, WHEN I FIRST BOUGHT IT, THERE WAS ONE COMPANY, AND NOW THERE'S SIX, FIVE OR SIX, UM, BRUIN, UH, EARTH AND FLAX SOLVENT FREE PAINTS.

THERE'S A PLACE CALLED HERON AND SAGE RESTORATION CARRIES LENCIA OLD PAINT NOW.

AND AND WHERE ARE THEY ALL LOCATED? ARE THEY EAST COAST? UH, YEAH.

UH, MOST OF 'EM ARE UP, UP SOMEWHERE UP NORTH NEW YORK, PHILADELPHIA.

ARE PAINTING CONTRACTORS RELUCTANT TO TRY IT? THEY ARE.

SO JIM SENT IT TO, UH, PENNSYLVANIA NEXT WEEK.

MAYBE YOU CAN BRING A LOAD BACK.

, YOU CAN GET BRING, BRING, SELL IT BACK.

SO DOES IT LAST LONGER OR TWO? YEAH, YEAH.

WHICH WE GO.

IT, UH, IT, IT DOES LAST LONGER.

UH, MATT, COULD YOU GO THROUGH A COUPLE SLIDES TRYING TO, IT'S THE SAME HOUSE, RIGHT? SO THIS IS THE SAME HOUSE.

THIS IS, UM, ONE, ONE OF OUR, UH, THIS IS OUR PRESERVATION ARCHITECT IN OUR OFFICE.

THIS IS HER HERITAGE FAMILY HOME THAT SHE HAD RESTORED.

AND, UH, I THINK THIS IS A BREATHABLE, SOLID STAIN.

SO JUST KEEP, KEEP GOING THROUGH THIS.

SO IS THERE SUCH A THING AS LYED OIL STAIN STOP? OR IS THAT JUST LYED STAIN? OR IS, OR YOU SAID IT WAS A BREATHABLE STAIN? NOT, NOT A LINSE OIL PAINT.

SO THIS IS, IT'S PROBABLY LIKE THAT CABOT SOLID STAIN.

UM, AND IF YOU CAN DO IT GREAT, YOU'RE GONNA GET THE MAX AMOUNT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, THE BANG FOR YOUR BUCK.

OR IT'S SOMETHING LIKE A SUPER DECK 9,600 THAT'S A SHER WILLIAMS PRODUCT.

ONE OF THEIR SOLID STAINS, ANYTHING CLASSIFIED AS A DECK STAIN IS JUST REBRANDED 1920S PAINT.

AND I GOT THAT STRAIGHT FROM A SHERWIN-WILLIAMS REP WHO LET IT SLIDE.

HE SAID, WE DON'T MAKE MUCH MONEY ON THE OLD STYLE PAINT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S BETTER.

UH, WHAT WE MAKE GREAT MONEY ON IS STUFF THAT YOU HAVE TO REPAINT EVERY SEVEN YEARS.

SO, SO, SO WHEN, WHEN YOU HAVE, UH, EXISTING BUILDINGS THAT HAVE EITHER OIL OR OR LATEX ON IT, DO YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT DOWN TO THE, THE, THE BARE WOOD FOR THIS LENSE PAINT TO REALLY BE EFFECTIVE? YES.

HOWEVER, UM, AND I'M TRYING TO GET NORTH CAROLINA HISTORIC SITES TO, UM, FIGURE OUT THIS CONCEPT AS WELL.

THAT'S A HUGE EXPENSE TO, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A LARGE HOUSE, TO TOTALLY SCRAPE IT DOWN TO BARE WOOD.

[01:30:01]

YOU'RE GONNA GET IT.

UM, HOWEVER, IT'S JUST IMPORTANT TO CHANGE PAINT, PAINT CAMPAIGNS BECAUSE I, I LIKE TO THINK LONG TERM, IF YOU ARE WORKING ON THAT HOUSE AND OTHER PEOPLE BUY IN A HUNDRED YEARS, EVENTUALLY IF YOU'RE CHANGE THE COURSE OF THE HOUSE, YOU'LL HAVE SCRAPED ENOUGH PAINT OFF THAT HOUSE THAT IT'S NOW MOSTLY THE, THE RIGHT PAINT.

SO THERE'S LIKE, I GUESS THAT'S A LOW TWITCH METHOD.

FAST TWITCH WOULD BE TO SCRAPE IT ALL AT ONCE AND PAINT IT IN A FULL CAMPAIGN.

BUT IT WILL LYSED OIL PAINT WILL ADHERE TO, IT'LL ADHERE TO ANYTHING OTHER, OTHER PAINTS.

LYE OIL PAINT WILL, WILL ADHERE STRAIGHT TO METAL.

THERE'S NO PRIMER INVOLVED.

THE ONLY PRIMER FOR LINSEED OIL IS THE OIL AT, OR IS LYSED OIL DILUTING THE SAME PAINT YOU USE? SO IT'S A 50 50 AND YOU JUST KIND OF DRENCH THE BUILDING WITH LINSEED OIL AND LINSEED OIL PAINT AND THEN PUT THE FULL STRENGTH PAINT ON MM-HMM .

AND WHAT DO YOU CUT IT WITH? 50 50? JUST, JUST THE LINSEED OIL.

SO YOU, YOU GET A BUCKET FROM LIKE, SISON IS, IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE COMPANIES.

AND I GET THE OSEN LINSEED OIL AND I JUST DO A 50 50 MIX.

AND IT'S, IT'S VERY SEMI OPAQUE.

WHEN, WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE BRUSHING IT ON, IT LOOKS LIKE A DECK STAIN.

YOU CAN SEE ALL THE WOOD GRAIN THROUGH IT.

UH, BUT WHAT IT DOES IS IT'S PUSHING ALL THAT OIL DEEP DOWN INTO THE, UH, THE CORE OF THOSE WOOD FIBERS AND REJUVENATING IT, GIVING IT SOME FLEXIBILITY BACK AND PRESERVING IT.

UM, THIS IS A, UH, ROSENWALD SCHOOL IN, I THINK HAMILTON.

I'M NOT QUITE TALL ENOUGH FOR THAT.

UM, THIS WAS A FULL RESTORATION.

THEY GOT A LOT OF GRANT FUNDING FOR THIS.

UM, LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE VINYL SIDING ALL OVER THAT.

AND THEY PAINTED IT WITH LATEX.

YOU GO TO THE NEXT ONE, LOOKS GREAT.

THEY DID A GREAT JOB.

AND IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT ONE, THIS IS WITHIN SIX YEARS.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN WALKING AROUND TOWN.

UM, THIS IS REALLY, YOU GOTTA THINK OF WRAPPING A HOUSE WITH PLASTIC PAINT, UM, THAT WATER JUST CAN'T GET OUT AND IT'LL SHATTER THAT PAINT, PEEL THE PAINT.

UM, ACTUALLY THIS IS A BETTER CONDITION FOR THIS BUILDING CURRENTLY THAN IT WAS WHEN IT WAS FIRST PAINTED.

'CAUSE WHAT WAS GONNA ROT HAS ROTTED AND THE REST IS BEING ABLE TO DRY OUT FOR THE MOST PART.

'CAUSE THE PAINT IS SHATTERED.

UM, I, ONE OF THE, OR REED REED THOMAS HAS SAID THE BEST KIND OF LATEX PAINT YOU CAN PUT ON A BUILDING IS THE CHEAPEST STUFF.

SO IT FALLS OFF QUICKER AND YOU CAN START MAKING BETTER DECISIONS.

UM, SO, SO THOSE PEOPLE, AND I THINK THERE'S SOME OF US THAT ARE SITTING UP HERE WHO USE LIKE AN OIL PRIME WITH A LATEX COVERED, UM, OR HAVE BEEN DOING THAT.

IF, IF YOU WERE GONNA SWITCH TO A, A LINSEED OIL PAINT, UM, WILL DO YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE BEAR? WOULD YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE, THE OLD OIL PRIME OFF FOR THE LINSEED OIL TO BE EFFECTIVE? OR WILL IT, WILL IT ABSORB THROUGH THE OIL PRIME? IT WON'T ABSORB AS WELL THROUGH THE OIL PRIMER, BUT YOU COULD STILL GO OVER THE OIL PRIMER.

IT'S BETTER THAN JUST GOING OVER THE LATEX PAINT, SO I CAN GOT IT THEN.

FINE.

HA.

HAVE YOU HAD ANY EXPERIENCE WITH LINSEED OIL PAINT ON PRESSURE TREATED WOOD? 'CAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT FOLKS WRESTLE WITH A WHOLE LOT, IS THEY PUT UP PRESSURE TREATED WOOD, WHICH IS MARGINAL AT BEST THESE DAYS.

MASK WHILE USING THIS STUFF.

AND YOU KNOW, WITHIN FIVE YEARS IT'S, IT'S ROTTED OUT.

SO IF, IF I WAS TO PAINT AND I, AND I HAVE PAINTED, UH, PRESSURE TREATED WOOD WITH LINSE, YOU STILL WANNA WAIT FOR THAT STUFF TO DRY A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH IT'S BREATHABLE, YOU WANT MOST OF THAT MOISTURE TO GET OUT BEFORE YOU COAT IT.

'CAUSE ANY KIND OF COATING ON WOOD IS GONNA REDUCE ITS BREATHABILITY, SOMEWHAT LINSE.

IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE THE BEST AT DOING THAT.

UM, BUT JUST LIKE ALL THE DECK STAINS SUGGESTS WEIGHT, LIKE SIX MONTHS FOR THE STUFF TO DRY OUT A BIT.

AND THEN YOU CAN PAINT RIGHT OVER IT.

UM, AND WHAT I'VE FOUND IS THE BEST, AND I I RECOMMEND THIS ALL THE TIME IN OUR HPC MEETINGS, ESPECIALLY WHEN PEOPLE ARE USING, UM, LIKE THE, THE POSTS FOR DECKS OR PORCH POSTS, THEY START TO USE CCA TREATED MATERIAL.

UM, YOU GUYS ARE LUCKY.

YOU HAVE DECKS AND DOCK HERE IN TOWN AND THEY SELL THAT HEAVY CCA TREATED MATERIAL.

AND, UM, I'VE USED THAT ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ON OUR PORCH POST RAILINGS PICKETS STEPS.

UM, AND IT, UM, THE BULKHEAD RATED MATERIAL ACTUALLY HAS TIGHTER GROWTH RINGS THAN YOUR STANDARD JUST TREATED MATERIAL.

NOT FAMILIAR WITH CCA TREATED.

IS THAT A, A DIFFERENT, JUST A DIFFERENT WOOD MATERIAL? UM, IT'S, THAT'S TREATED DIFFERENTLY.

IT'S TREATED LIKE THE OLD TREATED MATERIAL USED TO BE.

THE STUFF WHERE YOU HAVE TO WEAR A

[01:35:01]

IT'S TREATED WITH ARSENIC AND COPPER.

IT'S THE DARK, DARK GREEN STUFF.

UM, IT'S MOSTLY INTENDED FOR BULKHEAD.

AND WHEN I BUY IT, THEY ALWAYS, I, I HAVE TO NOT TELL THEM WHAT I'M WORKING ON , UM, 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S INTENDED FOR BULKHEADS, BUT I'LL CUT IT UP TO MAKE FENCE, FENCE POSTS AND, UH, FENCE PICKETS AND ALL, ALL KINDS OF STUFF.

UM, BUT YEAH, MOST PEOPLE EITHER COME TO NEWBURN OR THEY GO TO EATONTON, UH, TO GO TO KELLOGG TO GET BULKHEAD MATERIAL.

THERE'S VERY FEW PLACES THAT SELL IT.

SO, BUT WILL LIN SEE WALL PAINT MAKE, YOU KNOW, THE PRESSURE TREATED LUMBER THAT YOU WOULD GET AT LOWE'S? WILL IT MAKE IT LAST LONGER? DOES IT HAVE ANY EFFECT ON THAT? YEAH, IT WILL.

AND I, I GUESS THAT'S A WOOD QUALITY QUESTION, RIGHT? LIKE YEAH.

STUFF IS JUST NOT GOOD QUALITY ANYMORE.

UM, THERE'S A SLIDE, IT'S SOMEWHERE LOST IN THESE SLIDES, BUT IT'S A HISTORIC SMOKEHOUSE THAT HAS NAUGHTY SAP WOOD THAT'S TOTALLY UNPAINTED.

AND, UM, IT'S, I I, I THINK MAYBE THEY PUT TAR PAINT ON IT.

IT'S DOING FINE.

IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT ROTTING.

IT'S, IT'S ABLE TO BREATHE.

IT'S ABLE TO DRY OUT.

UM, THE PROBLEM, ESPECIALLY HERE ON BELMONT ON THAT, UM, CORNER BOARD THERE, OR THE, UH, WHERE THE SIDING MEETS, MEETS THE WINDOW IS THAT WAS LOW QUALITY PITHY WOOD AND CAPPED WITH PLASTIC, AND IT JUST SOAKED IT IN.

IT NEVER DRIED OUT AND IT ROTTED.

SO IT'S WHEN YOU HAVE BAD QUALITY WOOD MIXED WITH IMPROPER COATINGS, THAT'S THE KEY.

THAT'S THE KISS OF DEATH.

THIS IS REED THOMAS' HOUSE.

HE TALKED WITH THE FOLKS AT WILLIAMSBURG AND MOUNT VERNON AND THEY SAID, YOU NEED AN OIL PRIMER AND YOU NEED LATEX PAINT THE BEST THICKEST LATEX PAINT YOU CAN AFFORD.

AND HE DID THAT ON THIS 1820S HOUSE IN MARTIN COUNTY.

AND THE STUFF JUST STARTED PEELING OFF IN SHEETS.

UM, I HAVEN'T, I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY SIGNS TO BACK UP THIS THEORY, BUT I THINK IN SOUTHERN HOMES, THE RESONANCE YELLOW PINE JUST KIND OF SHEDS THIS PAINT A LOT MORE FREQUENTLY, UM, THAN IT WOULD IF IT WAS SOFTER PIT OR PINE BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALL THOSE, UM, I MEAN, THEY, THEY MAKE TURPENTINE TAR AND PITCH OUT OF LONGLEAF YELLOW PINE.

SO ALL THOSE RESINS, IT'S NOT A REALLY GOOD THING FOR PLASTIC TO STICK TO.

WHAT ABOUT LIKE, UH, CYPRUS, UH, WOOD BECAUSE OF COURSE WE HAVE A LOT OF CYPRUS WOOD AROUND HERE AS WELL, HISTORICALLY.

YOU MEAN LATEX ON CYPRUS? WELL, YES.

UH, THEY, FROM MY EXPERIENCE IN EDENTON, LOTS OF BUILDINGS, THEY WENT TO THE NTH DEGREE BUYING REALLY EXPENSIVE CYPRUS.

AND THEN THEY CO COATED IT WITH LATEX PAINT STILL ROTS, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS THOSE ROT RESISTANT, UH, PROPERTIES TO THE, UH, TO THE SWAMP TREES.

IT, IT'S, IT'LL STILL GET IT.

UM, OUR HOUSE IN EDENTON WAS TOTALLY COVERED WITH 200 YEAR OLD CYPRUS AND THEY PUT, UH, LATEX PAINT ALL OVER IT.

AND ALL THOSE LITTLE CORNERS GOT CRUNCHY AND I HAD TO WEAVE IN NEW SIDING AND, UH, PUT, PUT LINDSAY OLD PAINT ON IT.

DID YOU TAKE THE REST DOWN TO BEAR WOOD? I DID.

HADN'T RAINED IN A COUPLE.

, WE, WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

NOW.

THIS IS A HOMESTEAD.

THIS IS PROBABLY THE ONLY OTHER HOUSE IN EDENTON THAT'S PAINTED ENTIRELY WITH, UH, LINDSEY DOLE PAINT.

IT HAD THIS CRAZING, YOU SEE THE BEFORE VERY COMMON OCCURRENCE WHERE YOU JUST HAVE THOSE MULTIPLE COATS.

ALL THAT STUFF WAS PRETTY STABLE.

ALL THE ALKALIS, ALL THE OILS.

SO YOU GOT THE 1920S PAINTS ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1773.

ALL THOSE PAINTS ARE PRETTY STABLE UNTIL YOU PUT LATEX PAINT OVER 'EM.

AND THAT'S WHEN YOU SEE THE TOTAL DELAMINATION OF HUGE PATCHES BECAUSE THE WATER GETS UNDERNEATH THERE AND IT JUST LIFTS ALL THE OLD PAINT.

AND YOU START SEEING MASSIVE FAILURE.

THE, THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE THIS I'VE FOUND IS THAT BEFORE PICTURE IS WATER CAN GET IN VERY EASILY.

IT'S LIKE FOLDING UP A BIG TARP IN, IN YOUR YARD, AND YOU FORGET TO PUT IT AWAY AND YOU GET A RAINSTORM.

INEVITABLY, EVEN THOUGH IT'S WATERPROOF, RAIN WILL GET INTO EVERY CRACK, EVERY FOLD OF THAT TARP.

THE ONLY WAY FOR IT TO DRY OUT IS TO FOLD IT OUT OR, UH, UN UNFOLD IT, LAY IT IN THE SUN FOR IT TO DRY.

WATER WILL GET IN ALL THESE LITTLE CRACKS SOMEHOW, I GUESS JUST BY GRAVITY RUNNING DOWN THE WEATHER BOARDS.

AND, UH, IT, IT GETS TOTALLY TRAPPED IN THERE CAN AND IT CAN'T GET OUT.

UM, MATT BROUGHT US TO A BUILDING, IS IT SEVEN 18 MAIN STREET DRY BOROUGH? OH YEAH.

AND, UH, 14, MAYBE SIX 18.

IT HAD AN 18.

I KNOW IT HAD AN 18.

UM, IT HAD THE BIG PLATE GLASS WINDOW SILLS.

UM, STOREFRONT BUILDING HAD SUCH THICK, THICK MILL LATEX PAINT THAT YOU COULD ALMOST PICK IT UP LIKE A BED SHEET OFF OF THE WINDOW SILL.

THE WINDOW SILLS WERE PITHY AND, AND SOFT.

UH, IT WAS A HOT DAY.

[01:40:01]

I MEAN, WE WERE IN A DROUGHT AT THAT POINT, NOT NOW.

UH, I WAS ABLE TO PUT MY HAND UNDER THERE AND IT WAS HUMID.

IT WAS HUMID UNDER THERE.

ALL OF THAT WATER IS BEING TRAPPED UNDERNEATH AND SLOWLY ROTTING AWAY ALL THIS HISTORIC FABRIC IN TOWN.

SO IF YOU HAVE A MANMADE PRODUCT LIKE HARDY BOARD AND YOU PUT A LATEX PAINT ON IT, AND IT'LL ROT, IT'LL ROT, IT'LL ROT, IT'LL ROT SLOWER BECAUSE IT'S HARDY BOARD'S, NOT A WOOD FIBER AND WOOD FIBERS, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A TREE.

WATER'S SUPPOSED TO MOVE THROUGH IT.

UM, BUT I'VE, I'VE SEEN HARDY BOARD ROT WITH, UH, NON BREATHABLE PAINTS ON IT AS WELL.

SO WE CAN GO TO THE NEXT ONE.

SKIP THAT ONE.

KEEP GOING.

I THINK THAT'S LITTLE WASHINGTON MAYBE.

NO, NO, SORRY.

THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S HERE.

THAT'S FIRST FRIENDS.

THAT'S THERE.

I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE MY NOTES.

UH, OKAY.

THIS IS, EVERYBODY KNOWS HOPE PLANTATION.

UM, THEY HAVE DONE LINSE OIL PAINT ON THE INTERIOR, WHICH LOOKS NICE.

UH, ONE OF THE, ANOTHER GREAT BENEFIT OF LINSEED OIL PAINT IS YOU NOT HAVING CHEMICALLY INJECTED COLORANT IN, IN, INTO YOUR PAINT.

UH, THIS STUFF JUST KIND OF HAS A FLAT APPEARANCE AND IT'S KIND OF HARD TO DESCRIBE UNTIL YOU'VE ACTUALLY SEEN IT.

UH, AND COMPARED THE TWO LIN SEED OIL PAINT IS GROUND MINERALS.

IT'S GROUND, UH, PIGMENTS.

UM, OCHERS COME FROM THE EARTH, WHETHER IT'S AN OXIDE OR WHATEVER.

UM, IT HAS A MORE THREE DIMENSIONAL REFLECTIVE QUALITY.

AND IT JUST, IT'S BRIGHTER.

IT'S, IT'S NOT MONOCHROMATIC.

KIND OF A DEAD TONE, PLASTIC COLOR, UM, THAT MOST EXTERIOR PAINT HAS NOWADAYS.

SO WE CAN KEEP GOING.

AND YOU GOT ROT ON THE WINDOW.

SILLS AT, AT HOPE, YOU KNOW, WELL FUNDED, HIGHLY RESEARCHED BUILDING.

YOU'RE STILL GETTING ROT BECAUSE YOU'RE USING THE WRONG COATINGS.

THIS WAS A 10 YEAR, A 10 YEAR TIME SPAN.

I HAVE, I HAVE SOME NOTES.

YOU, YOU HAVE THE NOTES.

NEXT IS 12 YEARS.

12 YEARS AFTER YOU CAN SEE THE PINHOLES ON, ON THE, UH, SASH THERE, SLOWLY ROTTING.

AND THIS IS OUR OFFICE.

THIS HAS BEEN IN NEGLECT FOR SO MANY YEARS.

IT'S NOW BECOMING A, A CASE STUDY.

AND THERE'S SO MANY PHOTOS OF THE HUMBER HOUSE IN EVERYBODY'S SLIDES.

UM, IT'S ALMOST SAD.

IT'S LOOKING BETTER THOUGH.

WE'LL KEEP GOING FROM THERE.

SO THE HUMBER HOUSE GOT A, THE LOOSE PAINT WAS SCRAPED BY HAND.

IT WAS WASHED WITH POWER WASHER.

UM, MILDEW SIDE WAS PUT ON TO STOP ALL THE MILDEW.

ONE COAT ALKALI PRIMER, WHICH IS PROBABLY YOUR, YOUR OIL PRIMER.

AND THEN TWO COATS OF SEMI-GLOSS, HIGH QUALITY LATEX PAINT.

AND WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT ONE.

AND IN THREE YEARS, WE'RE STARTING TO SEE FLAKING.

THAT'S PROBABLY OLD, UH, PAINT SURFACES NOW DELAMINATING BECAUSE THEY'RE TRAPPED UNDERNEATH THIS NON BREATHABLE COATING.

AND YOU SEE ALL THE MILDEW COMING UP, UH, FROM THE WEATHER BOARDS STARTING TO REPLACE, UM, PORCH FLOORING WHERE THE RAIN'S BEATING DOWN ON IT.

AND THEN IT JUST, IT GOT REALLY BAD.

YIKES.

THIS WAS, THIS WAS BEFORE MY TIME.

SO WHAT WAS THE, WE SEE 2016, WHAT WAS THE FIRST YEAR IT WAS PAINTED? SO 2013 WAS PAINTED 2016.

THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE THREE YEARS LATER.

SO WHAT IS CAUSING THE MILDEW? IS IT BECAUSE OF THE LATEX PAINT? IT CAN'T BREATHE TRAPPING MOISTURE.

THAT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH, WITH IT.

I KIND OF WONDER ON THIS PROJECT IN PARTICULAR, IF STATE CONTRACT JUST DIDN'T, THEY KIND OF JUST FORCED CHEAPER PAINT THE CHEAPEST LATEX PAINT.

UM, I KNOW STATE CONTRACT FOR SHERWIN WILLIAMS, WE GET OUR PAINT FOR $7 A GALLON AND IT'S THE CHEAPEST THAT THEY HAVE.

AND IT, IT JUST DOES THIS.

IF YOU GO TO HISTORIC SITES, YOU GO TO SOMERSET PLANTATION.

UM, IF YOU GO TO THE BATH HISTORIC SITE, THEY, THEY KIND OF MILDEW LIKE THIS JUST 'CAUSE IT, I THINK THOSE PAINTS, THE STATE CONTRACT PAINTS HAVE THE MILDEW ASIDE.

THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT IN THERE OR THEY HAVE NOT, CLEARLY NOT ENOUGH.

UM, A SIDE NOTE, LINSEED OIL PAINT DONE IMPROPERLY WILL ALSO DO THIS.

UM, AND THIS IS ALSO A GOOD REASON.

WHEN YOU SAY IMPROPER, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT'S THAT WEIGH? UM, SO IMPROPER, IF YOU DON'T SCRUB THE, THE MILDEW THAT'S ALREADY ON THE SIDING, 'CAUSE EVERYTHING HAS MILDEW.

IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE A CEDAR ROOF THAT'S GRAY.

THE GRAY IS, IS ACTUALLY DECAY.

UM, AND IT'S, YOU, YOU GOTTA SCRUB THE MILDEW OFF AND IT'LL, IT'LL SHOW ITS REAL COLOR.

SO SCRUBBING IT OFF WITH LIKE A, LIKE A DAWN SOAP OR A LINSEED SOAP, THEY, THEY, THEY MAKE

[01:45:01]

THAT TOO.

BEFORE YOU WERE TO TRAP ALL THAT MILDEW UNDERNEATH THE LATEX PAINT, IT JUST HAS TO COME THROUGH.

UM, BUT SO YOUR HIGHEST END LENS OR HIGHEST END LATEX PAINTS HAVE ENOUGH MILDEW ASIDE IN IT THAT IT DOESN'T DO THIS.

WHILE LINSEED OIL PAINT STILL HAS ENOUGH PROTEINS IN IT THAT IT WILL SLOWLY MILDEW A LITTLE BIT AND YOU JUST HAVE TO WASH IT.

THAT'S THE ONE NEGATIVE THING I'VE EXPERIENCED ABOUT LINSEED OIL PAINT.

THE CAVEAT TO THAT IS I WOULD MUCH RATHER SCRUB MY HOUSE EVERY FEW YEARS TO GET THE MILDEW OFF THAN TAKE OFF SIDING.

THAT'S ROTTING.

CAN YOU ADD AN ADDITIVE OF MILDEW IN THE LEN SEED OIL? UM, I WAS SUGGESTED BY EARTH AND FLAX TO COAT THE WHOLE HOUSE WITH BORIC ACID, BECAUSE THAT'S A MILDEW ASIDE.

I'VE ALSO USED COPPER ATE, WHICH IS A COPPER BASED WOOD PRESERVATIVE.

UM, AND THAT SEEMS TO HELP, UH, OUR CURRENT HOUSE IN EDENTON HAS A PAINT JOB OF ABOUT TWO YEARS OLD AT THIS POINT, AND THERE'S NO REAL MILDEW SHOWING UP.

SO YOU WOULD USE THOSE BEFORE YOU PAINT MM-HMM .

AS A, AS A WOOD TREATMENT.

AS A WOOD TREATMENT.

AND ANOTHER THING, ESPECIALLY IN EDENTON, I KNOW THERE'S A, YOU GUYS HAVE SO MANY MORE BUILDINGS THAN WE DO, AND THERE'S A VARIED COLOR SCHEME HERE IN TOWN.

UM, BUT MOST BUILDINGS IN EDENTON ARE WHITE BODIES WITH BLACK SHUTTERS.

THAT'S ALL IT IS.

AND HISTORICALLY THAT'S NOT HOW MOST OF OUR EARLY ARCHITECTURE WAS.

I STARTED DOING RESEARCH ON EARLY ARCHITECTURE IN EDENTON AND DISCOVERED THAT MOST OF THE SHUTTERS WERE ACTUALLY VIVIDLY GREEN AS, AS RICHARD KNOWS.

AND THE BODIES WERE ACTUALLY MILDEW COLORED.

UM, SO KIND OF A GRAY TAN COLOR.

THEY KNEW IT WAS HAPPENING.

THEY KNEW THEY HAD TO DEAL WITH IT, SO THEY JUST KIND OF GOT AHEAD OF IT AND STARTED PAINTING IT A MILDEW COLOR.

UM, THEY DID PRACTICAL STUFF LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME.

AND I THINK ANYTIME WE CAN KIND OF GO BACK TO HISTORY, STUDY ORIGINAL COLORS OF OUR HOUSES AND PAINT 'EM LIKE THAT, THERE'LL BE A REASON THEY DID THAT MAKES SENSE.

SO WE GOT YEAH.

KEEP GOING TO THIS.

IT'S A PRESERVATION BRIEF AT THE VERY END.

THIS IS MORE, UH, CRAZING CROSS-SCREEN CRACKING, UM, WHERE WATER CAN GET IN START DELAMINATING THAT, THAT PAINT KEEP MORE OF THAT.

AND YOU CALL IT CRAZING IS IS KIND OF THAT, THAT ALLIGATOR ISH BEFORE IT GETS OUT OF HAND, THE BEGINNINGS OF IT.

AND USUALLY THAT HAPPENS CONCENTRATED AROUND WHERE THE OLD PAINT IS AS WELL.

IF YOU PAINTED OVER, LIKE IF YOU HAVE A GUY SCRAPE AND THERE'S PATCHES WHERE HE DIDN'T GET THAT STUFF WILL THEN FALL OFF WITH MORE, UH, LATEX PAINT.

IT'LL CRAZE THAT PREVIOUS ONE.

WAS THAT IN THREE YEARS TOO? THAT IT LITERALLY WAS COMING OFF THE DOOR IN THREE YEARS? YEAH.

WOW.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD .

I DID, I DID NOT WORK THERE THEN.

BUT SKIP A FEW.

THE NEXT ONE.

SO ANOTHER THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS INTERIOR WATER VAPOR.

WHILE YOU HAVE THE RAIN WATER AND THE, OF COURSE THE HUMIDITY THAT WE NOW HAVE, UH, HERE NOW THAT WE'RE IN SUMMER, YOU HAVE PEOPLE SWEAT, THEY MAKE HUMIDITY.

UH, YOU'RE MAKING TEA IN THE HOUSE, YOU'RE COOKING, UM, PEOPLE ARE JUST LIVING IN THERE.

YOU'RE HAVING SHOWERS.

ALL THAT STUFF CAUSES HUMIDITY AND HISTORIC HOUSES AS THEY WERE BUILT.

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DEAL WITH THIS.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE YOUR PLASTER.

IF IT'S NOT COATED ON THE INSIDE WITH A UNBREATHABLE PAINT, THAT LIME IS SUPPOSED TO DRAW THE MOISTURE.

IT GOES THROUGH THE PLASTER AND IT DISSIPATES THROUGH THE WALL.

VOID OUT THE WEATHER BOARDS.

'CAUSE IF YOU DON'T CAULK THE BOTTOM OF THE WEATHER BOARDS, THE WHOLE HOUSE ACTS AS VENTING ALL THE WAY UP AND DOWN.

UM, AND IF THE SAME WAY NO INSULATION.

NO INSULATION OR SOME INSULATION.

I HAVE IDEAS ABOUT THAT.

WALL VOIDS, I'LL USE, UM, THAT, THAT COMFORT BAT.

INSULATION GETS WET FROM THE MILDEW INSIDE THE WALLS.

AND IT'S A PROBLEM.

IT'S A BIG PROBLEM THOUGH.

I THINK THE WORST KIND OF INSULATION YOU CAN PUT BLOWN IN IS PROBABLY THE WORST.

UH, BUT THE PINK STUFF IS THE SECOND WORST BECAUSE IT'S NOT RIGID.

AND IF IT DOES GET WET, IF YOU GET, UH, WATER INFILTRATION, IT'LL SAG.

IT'LL STAY THERE LIKE A SPONGE AND IT'LL ROT OUT YOUR SILLS.

AND THEN YOU GOT A VERY EXPENSIVE PROBLEM.

THE STUFF I LOVE IS A ROCK WOOL SOUND INSULATION BOARD.

IT'S UH, IT'S AN INCH AND A HALF THICK.

I CUT IT WITH, UM, A MACHETE AND YOU JUST DRAW YOUR LINE, YOU BREAK IT, AND IT FRICTION FITS IN PLACE.

AND IT'S, IT'S MADE OUT OF MINERAL.

IT'S SPUN MINERAL WOOL.

I GUESS IT'S MODERN DAY, UH, UM, ASBESTOS.

UH, BUT IT, IT BREATHES, IT DOESN'T HOLD WATER.

IT DOESN'T MOLD.

AND IT'S FIRE, FIRE RETARDANT PEOPLE EVEN USE IT AS BACKING WHEN THEY'RE, UM, SOLDERING.

SO IT DOESN'T, IT'S, IT'S REALLY GOOD AT A PART.

AND THEY MAKE THAT IN SOFT ROLLS TOO.

THEY DO MAKE IT IN SOFT ROLLS.

UM, I, I USE SOFT ROLLS FOR THE TOP OF THE BUILDING AND FOR THE UNDERNEATH AND THE

[01:50:01]

BUT THE NICE THING I LIKE ABOUT THE COMFORT BAT IS I PUSH IT UP TO THE PLASTER.

IT'S BREATHABLE.

SO YOUR, YOUR UH, YOUR VAPORS CAN STILL GO IN AND OUTTA THE BUILDING, BUT YOU'RE LEAVING, SORRY.

YOU'RE LEAVING A GOOD GAP BETWEEN YOUR WEATHER BOARDS AND THAT, UH, INSULATION.

SO THE CONVECTION OF THE HOT AND COOL AIR AND YOUR WALL VOIDS CAN STILL CONTINUE PUSHING THAT HOT AIR UP TO THE BUILDING AND OUT IN THE RIDGE.

I KNOW YOU MENTIONED, UM, UNDERNEATH THE HOUSE INSULATION, THERE'S TWO SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT ON THAT, WHETHER TO INSULATE OR NOT INSULATE.

THERE IS, YEAH.

WE INSULATE UNDER OUR HOUSE.

UH, BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE UNDERNEATH THE FLOORS THING? YEAH.

JUST FOR DRAFT PROOFING.

UM, I FEEL LIKE AS LONG AS THE BUILDING CAN BREATHE UNDER, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOOD AS, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, PUTTING HOUSE WRAP UP UNDERNEATH.

AND IF, YOU KNOW, HUMIDITY GETS DOWN THERE, AS LONG AS IT'S DRY, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT HAVING MOISTURE PROBLEMS DOWN THERE, CHECK IT.

IF, IF IT BECOMES A PROBLEM, TAKE THE INSULATION OUT.

'CAUSE IT'LL, IT'LL ROCK YOUR SEALS AND JOIST OUT.

AND YOU, DO YOU USE ROCK WALL ROCK WOOL FOR THAT AS WELL? MM-HMM .

THE, THE BOARD.

AND I, I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SAG AND FALL.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE THE, THE IRON PINS THAT INEVITABLY FALL OUT, GET RUSTY AND STAB YOUR LEG WHEN YOU'RE CRAWLING DOWN THERE NEXT TIME.

SO GIVE YOU .

THAT'S ANOTHER ONE OF THE RECTORY NEEDIN.

THESE ARE REED'S PHOTOS.

THIS IS OF HIS HOUSE.

SO THAT'S, UH, ICICLES THING.

ALWAYS SOME TONGUE IN CHEEK WITH REED .

AND THIS IS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, THE 20TH CENTURY LIFE, WHICH IS I UNDERSTAND ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

WHILE I AM A PURIST IN, IN OUR OLD HOUSE, I DO HAVE, I, I DO REALIZE THAT IF I DON'T RESTORE IT AT A CERTAIN PERIOD OR TO AT, TO A CERTAIN POINT, IT'S NOT A VALID HOUSE ON THE MARKETPLACE.

WHEN I LEAVE, AND I KNOW SOMEONE ELSE IS NOT GONNA BE AS SYMPATHETIC TO THAT HOUSE AS I AM.

SO I'VE JUST KIND OF ARRANGED OUR HOUSE WITH THE SYSTEMS. IT'S A GOOD HOUSE, I THINK.

UM, AND NO ONE ELSE HAS TO COME IN AND DO A FULL RENOVATION BECAUSE OF ALL MY WEIRD PRESERVATION HACKS I DID ALL OVER THE PLACE.

SO WE DO HAVE RUNNING WATER, AIR CONDITIONING, AND HEAT BONUS CLIMATE CONTROL'S A BIG ONE.

UM, PEOPLE OVER CONDITION THEIR BUILDINGS OR SOMETIMES UNDER CONDITION THE BUILDINGS, WHICH DOESN'T GET THAT HUMIDITY OUT OF THE BUILDING.

UH, BUT ANYTHING YOU ADD INTO A HISTORIC BUILDING PUTS A, IT, IT, IT CHANGES THE WHOLE DYNAMIC.

SOMETHING THAT WILL HAPPEN.

IT'S THAT EQUAL OR OPPOSITE REACTION.

UM, SO WHILE YOU, IT'S NICE TO BE COOL IN, IN THE SUMMER, KEEPING IT JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST STRUGGLING TO KEEP UP ON THE HOTTEST DAYS AND JUST, JUST STRUGGLING TO WARM THE HOUSE ON, ON, ON THE COLDEST DAYS.

THAT'S WHAT WE SAY IS THE EQUILIBRIUM POINT FOR, UH, HVAC CLIMATE CONTROL AS LITTLE OF EACH OF PROCESS.

THIS IS INTERESTING.

SO ALL THAT HUMID AIR THAT'S GOING UP THROUGH REED'S, UM, WALL VOIDS, AND IT'S THE VENTS THROUGH THE UNTALKED, UH, WEATHER BOARDS, IT MAKES ITS WAY UP TO THE RIDGE AND IT'S PUSHING ALL THAT AIR OUT.

IF HE DOESN'T HAVE ADEQUATE VENTILATION, THAT AIR CARRIES HUMIDITY AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S GONNA ROT OUT YOUR, UM, GABLE END BOARDS THERE.

OF COURSE.

ALL THE HUMIDITY ALSO JUST LIKE, UM, SHOWERS AND COOKING AND STUFF ALSO GO UP YOUR STAIRWAYS MM-HMM .

AND EVENTUALLY REACH THE ATTIC TOO.

ABSOLUTELY.

SO THIS IS A, A, A GOOD ONE FOR INSTALLATION.

THIS IS THE NORTH FLEET HOUSE IN EDGECOMBE COUNTY.

I, I WOULDN'T, WOULDN'T EVER CAULK A HORIZONTAL SEAM ON A BUILDING EVER.

THERE'S, THERE'S THE THING.

AND YOU CAN SEE SOME STAINING UNDERNEATH THAT, UH, RIGHT HAND WINDOW IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

MATT, THIS IS RICK LAMBERTH LAMBETH.

HE IS A PRESERVATION CONTRACTOR, A RESTORATION CONTRACTOR IN EDGECOMBE COUNTY.

AND THEY HAD SMASHED INSULATION AS FULL AS YOU CAN BOTH TO THE WEATHER BOARDS AND TO THE, LOOKS LIKE A DRYWALL ON THE INSIDE.

IT GOT WET AND MAJOR ROT HAPPENED.

YOU CAN SEE THE INTERIOR WAKING UP.

THAT'S WHY THAT THAT GAP IN, IN YOUR WEATHER BOARDS IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT'S WATER'S GONNA GET IN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

THAT'S THE THING.

IF YOU TAKE ANYTHING HOME FROM TONIGHT, WATER'S GONNA GET IN YOUR HOUSE.

IT'S, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WHEN AND WHERE AND YOU JUST NEED TO LET IT TO DISSIPATE AND NOT STAY.

SO, CORRECT ME.

DO YOU SAY YOU SHOULD CAULK THE UNDERNEATH THE HORIZONTALS? NOT CAULK.

NO, YOU SHOULD NOT CAU SO

[01:55:01]

UM, BECAUSE THE WATER IS GONNA GET BEHIND IT SOMEHOW.

IT, IT'LL FIND A WAY.

GRAVITY WILL PUSH IT AND THEN IT WOULD BE TRAPPED.

UM, AND IF YOU DO, I MEAN, THEY MAKE LEN CYL CAULK AS WELL, WHICH IS BREATHABLE.

AND, UH, IT HOLDS UP ABOUT AS GOOD AS MODERN CAULK, EXCEPT IT'S JUST, IT'S, IT'S NOT HEAVY LATEX.

SO WE CAN START SCROLLING THROUGH THESE.

I WANT TO GET TO THE LIME WASH ONE.

WELL, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, YOUR WOOD, WOOD WOOD QUALITY.

THIS IS OLD FLOORING.

1820S FLOORING.

AND THAT'S OF COURSE LIKE LOWE'S SHIPLAP THERE.

AND I THINK THIS IS, THIS MIGHT BE WASHINGTON COUNTY, RICHARD.

WHAT'S THAT LITTLE DAVENPORT HOMESTEAD? OH YEAH.

THAT'S IN WASHINGTON COUNTY.

YEAH, I THINK, I THINK THAT'S DAVENPORT HOMESTEAD UNPAINTED BUILDING, UH, WITH RICH SOUTHERN YELLOW PINE, PROBABLY LONGLEAF PINE.

IT'S NEVER BEEN PAINTED.

AND THAT'S THE WAY IT IS.

UM, ACTUALLY HAD A POINT.

WHICH ONE WAS IT? THE INTERSECTION OF HIGHWAY 43 AND SPRING GARDEN ROAD.

THAT HOUSE THAT'S BEEN IN DECAY FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S, IT'S BEEN AT LEAST 40 YEARS IT'S BEEN IN DECAY.

IF THAT HOUSE WAS COVERED IN LATEX PAINT, IT WOULD BE ON THE GROUND DECADES AGO.

SO I ALWAYS, I I ALWAYS THINK ABOUT THAT HOUSE.

WHY IS IT NOT ON THE GROUND? AND, UH, ABOUT A YEAR AGO, IT KIND OF HIT ME, IT TOTALLY MISSED THE LATEX PAINT.

THE HOUSE HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS ON STREETS FERRY ROAD.

RIGHT AT THE, YEAH, NEAR THE LIGHT.

WHERE SPRING GARDENS.

OH YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I WAS WONDERING WHAT THAT ONE DOES.

DIDN'T THERE USED TO BE A, A TOBACCO BARN NEXT TO IT OR SOMETHING THAT DID FALL MAYBE.

AND IT, AND IT WILL FALL BECAUSE IT'S NOT DRY.

BUT IT WOULD'VE FALLEN WAY SOONER HAD IT BEEN COVERED WITH INSULATION AND LATEX PAINT.

AND THIS IS ALL SAP WOOD ON A MAYBE KITCHEN SOMEWHERE.

PROBABLY THE WESTERN PART OF THE STATE IT LOOKS LIKE.

OH, THAT'S BEAUTIFUL STUFF.

GOOD STUFF.

THAT'S NOT GOOD STUFF.

KEEP GOING THAT.

AND THIS IS, I THINK THIS IS, UH, THAT ROSENWALD SCHOOL.

SO THEY, YOU GO BACK ONE, MATT, THIS IS ANOTHER BIG ONE.

SEE THAT WINDOW SILL? THEY WERE JUST HOPING TO STOP THAT DRAFT WITH THAT SPRAY FOAM.

THAT'S THE WORST STUFF EVER.

UM, I WOULD PREFER SOMEONE PUT LATEX PAINT ON A BUILDING THAN FULLY SPRAY FOAM.

THE INTERIOR OF THEIR HOUSE.

UM, IF YOU LOOK AT UK PRESERVATION BLOGS, LOOK AT THEIR FACEBOOK GROUPS, THEY'LL GO TO RE THATCH ONE OF THEIR 14TH CENTURY BUILDINGS.

THEY PULL THE THATCH OFF AND THE ROOF RAFTER COME WITH IT BECAUSE THEY'RE TOTALLY GONE.

UM, THIS STUFF IS LIQUID PLASTIC.

AND IT IS, IT'S THE BIGGEST KILLER OF HISTORIC HOMES.

THANKFULLY.

IT'S NOT THAT COMMON HERE.

THAT'S A NICE MOLDED WINDOW.

SILL GONE TWO YEARS DOING THAT.

AND WHEN THEY SCRAPED IT, IT'S WET.

JUST LIKE I WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT STOREFRONT IN, UH, YEAH, IN DRY BURROW IT WAS LIKE THAT.

BUT YOU LIFTED UP AND THE WHOLE WHOLE SUBSTRATE UNDERNEATH WAS, WAS SOAKING WET.

THICK MILL.

THICK MILL .

ALL RIGHT, SO WE'RE HERE TO PAINT.

SORRY.

GOTCHA.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT LINDO PAINT.

LINDO PAINT WAS PRETTY MUCH THE PAINT.

I THINK THE EARLIEST KNOWN, UH, RICHARD MIGHT KNOW BETTER.

BUT, UH, THE EARLIEST KNOWN LINDO PAINT I COULD FIND FOR ARCHITECTURAL USE WAS 1460.

THAT'S WHEN IT KIND OF STARTED BECOMING A THING.

UM, AND THAT WAS WHAT WE USED HUMANS USED ON ALL BUILDINGS THROUGHOUT, I GUESS EASTERN EUROPE.

UH, IN, IN THE INFLUENCED WORLD.

UP UNTIL WORLD WAR II, AFTER WORLD WAR II, WE'D DONE SO MUCH RESEARCH.

WE HAD ALL THIS, THESE EXTRA CHEMICALS WE WERE DEALING WITH STUFF.

I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT WELL.

I JUST KNOW WHAT THEY DO TO BUILDINGS.

UM, JUST STARTED REALLY TAKING EFFECT.

BUT BUILDINGS, ROT IN BUILDINGS IS A MODERN PROBLEM.

UH, YOU DIDN'T SEE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD PORCH POSTS, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD RAILINGS.

YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD PERIOD SIDING LEFT.

TODAY, IF LATEX PAINT HAD BEEN INVENTED IN 18, IN THE 18TH CENTURY, IT WOULD'VE ALL BEEN GONE BY NOW.

WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE.

BUT JUST A HANDFUL OF OLD BUILDINGS IN DOWNTOWN NEW BERN, THE BRICK ONES YOU, BUT EVEN THE BRICK ONES HAVE WOOD WINDOWS.

QUESTION THE, THE LAST BULLET THERE.

AND, AND WOODEN TRIM.

AND WOODEN JOIST.

UH, SO WE CAN SKIP ONTO THE NEXT ONE.

SO, SO

[02:00:01]

UH, TRADITIONAL LYNC OIL COATINGS MINUS THE LEAD.

UH, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF HOUSES, UH, THAT HAVE SOME SEMBLANCE OF LEAD PAINT ON THEM.

SO THE, SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE OLD LEAD PAINTS WERE LINSEED OIL BASED PAINTS WITH LEAD.

SO IS IS, YOU KNOW, IS THIS A HUNDRED YEAR OLD PAINT STILL ON THERE BECAUSE OF THE LEAD OR BECAUSE OF THE LINSEED OIL? OR BOTH? PROBABLY BOTH.

UM, IF, IF YOU GO BACK AND READ THESE UK UH, KIND OF NUTS CONTRACTORS AND PRESERVATIONISTS, THERE IS NOW A BLACK MARKET FOR LEAD LEN SEED OIL PAINT.

UM, BECAUSE IF IT'S POISONOUS TO YOU, IT'S POISONOUS TO EVERYTHING ELSE.

UM, AND WHILE IT'S, YOU KNOW, NOT THE BEST THING TO PAINT AND HAVE PAINT CHIPS FALL, IF YOU STAY ON TOP OF IT, IT, IT'S STABLE.

IF YOU KEEP IT OILED, IT'S GONNA BE STABLE.

UM, SO, AND IT, IT MAKES NICE COLORS.

UM, I HAVEN'T USED IT MYSELF.

UH, I'VE SCRAPED PLENTY OF LEAD PAINT WEARING PROPER, UH, SAFETY PRECAUTIONS.

UM, BUT YEAH, LEAD IS A SLIGHTLY STRONGER PIGMENT THAN, UM, NOW WHAT MOST LINSEED OIL PAINTS USE IS THEY USE TITANIUM AS THEIR MAIN LEAD REPLACEMENT BINDER, WHICH IS NOT TOXIC.

IT'S A LITTLE MORE BRITTLE.

THAT'S THE ONLY THING.

SO YOU CAN'T USE TOO MUCH ZINC OR TITANIUM, UH, IN, IN YOUR LINSEED OLD PAINT.

AND THE PAINT COMPANIES HAVE KIND OF FIGURED THIS OUT, WHERE THE MOST FLEXIBLE PAINT, WHERE YOUR WOOD IS EXPANDING AND CONTRACTING WITH MOISTURE, HEAT, AND HUMIDITY AND THE DRYING CYCLE.

SO, SO WHAT WAS THE LEAD FOR COLLARING? OR WAS IT ALSO A PROTECTORATE? BOTH.

I MEAN, LEAD WAS INDOCTRINATED INTO EVERY FACET OF LIFE IN THOSE DAYS.

UM, PLUMBING WAS PLUMBING.

IT WAS IN THE CRYSTAL YOU DRANK OUT OF, IF YOU COULD AFFORD TO HAVE CRYSTAL.

UM, IT WAS, IT WAS UBIQUITOUS.

IT WAS, UH, IT WAS EVERYWHERE.

SO, YOU KNOW, GETTING LEAD OXIDE, PUTTING IT INTO PAINT, IT'S JUST A WASTE PRODUCT.

AND IT HAPPENS TO MAKE A REALLY GREAT WHITE.

I WORKED WITH THE ARCHITECT WHO RESTORED ST.

MICHAEL'S CHURCH AFTER HUGO, AND I'VE BEEN UP THE WHOLE TOWER AND IT'S GOT ABOUT 20 COATS OF BLEND SEEDED OIL AND WHITE LEAD ON IT.

AND HE SAYS, THAT'S WHY IT'S THERE TODAY.

HE SAYS, PROBABLY WE TRIED NOT TO DISTURB IT ANY MORE THAN WE COULD.

I GUESS YOU WOULD HOPE THAT YOUR PAINT WOULD BE PROTECTING YOUR WOOD, NOT DESTROYING IT.

AND I, I DID HAVE A, A LADY FROM THE WASHINGTON HBC TELL ME, SHE SAID, SHE TOLD ME IF THEY HAD HARDY BOARD AND VINYL WINDOWS AND LATEX PAINT BACK THEN THEY WOULD'VE USED IT.

I SAID, THEY ABSOLUTELY WOULD'VE.

BUT WHEN THEIR HOUSES STARTED ROTTING OR THINGS DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T WORKING WITH THEIR HOUSE, THEN THEY WOULD'VE REPLACED IT.

'CAUSE THESE PEOPLE WERE CRAFTSMEN AND UNDERSTOOD WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

SO, UM, THIS IS A, THE ONLY OTHER THING OTHER THAN LINSEED OLD PAINT.

THIS, THIS IS MY CONS FOR LINSEED OLD PAINT, WHICH THERE ARE FEW IN MY MIND, UM, OTHER THAN THE MILDEW, SLIGHT MILDEW ISSUES, WHICH INSTEAD OF MILDEW, INSTEAD OF REPLACING ROTTEN SIDING, YOU'RE HAVING TO WASH MILDEW OCCASIONALLY IS ON YOUR DARK COLORS.

SO IF YOU HAVE A, A, UH, LIKE A PAINTED VICTORIAN LADY AND YOU HAVE BLACKS OR DARK BROWNS OR PURPLES OR DARK BLUES, THEY FLASH A LITTLE, A LOT, A LOT QUICKER THAN LATEXES DO.

AND ALL THAT IS, IS THAT HOT SUMMER SUN DRAWING THE OIL INTO THE SUBSTRATE AND LEAVING A DUSTY PIGMENT ON THE TOP.

ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS AS THIN AS POSSIBLE.

WHITE LENSE, OLD PAINT ON TOP, AND IT'LL REHYDRATE IT.

UH, IT'LL RE EMULSIFY ALL THOSE, UM, PIGMENTS.

AND YOU'RE GOOD TO GO.

YOU'RE SAYING THAT, YOU SAID FLASH.

YEAH, FLASH.

THAT'S JUST LIKE THE HEAT OF THE SUN.

AND LET'S SAY IF YOU'VE RUBBED UP AGAINST THE COLUMN, LIKE YOU LEAN ON A OLD SOUTHERN PORCH, ONE OF THE BIG COLUMNS, AND YOU GET A WHITE STAIN ON YOUR SHIRT, UM, THAT'S THAT FLASHING.

IT'S THE PIGMENT RUBBING OFF LIKE THE POWER CHALKING CHALKING.

CHALKING FLASHING SIMILAR EFF FLUORESCENCE, UH, SIMILAR EFF FLUORESCENCE IS TYPICALLY THERE'S SOMETHING MOVING THROUGH THE SUBSTRATE TO HAVE EFF FLUORESCENCE.

AND DRYING ON THIS ON, ON THE SURFACE.

UM, SO THE 1920S, THEY STARTED PRODUCING ALKALOID PAINTS.

THESE WERE STILL PRETTY GOOD PAINTS.

UM, THEY WERE COMMERCIAL.

YOU COULD MASS PRODUCE 'EM.

AND THE THING PEOPLE LIKED ABOUT 'EM IS THEY WERE SLICK AND HARD.

UM, THEY REALLY LIKED THAT ABOUT ALKALDE PAINTS.

UM, AND FOR THE MOST PART THEY WERE FAIRLY BREATHABLE.

AND THEN POST WORLD WAR II, YOU GET LATEX, WHICH WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A BUNCH.

UM, IS THAT THE HOUSE IN ?

[02:05:01]

IT'S POSSIBLE.

UM, ONE KEY THING FOR ABOUT LATEX PAINT IS THIS HAS NOT BEEN A HUGE PROBLEM UNTIL THE 1990S BECAUSE WHEN WE UPDATED OUR VOC LAWS AND YOU CAN'T HAVE VOCS OR THEY'VE RESTRICTED VOCS AND LATEX PAINT, THEY'VE, LATEX PAINT IS ALMOST TOTALLY UNBREATHABLE AT THIS POINT.

SO THIS IS THE EDWARD FRANKLIN HOUSE IN SURREY COUNTY.

THIS IS A GOOD ONE.

THIS IS, I THINK THE OWNER OF CATHEDRAL STONE, WHO'S A RESTORATION SUPPLIER.

MOSTLY MASONRY PRODUCTS.

BUT HE HAS A, IT'S A MASONRY, UH, IT'S A CERAMIC DISC THAT IS BREATHABLE AND HE'S PUT WATER OVER IT.

AND OF COURSE THAT'S HIS CONTROL.

WATER WILL SEEP THROUGH THE CERAMIC DISC.

YOU HAVE A MOISTURE PASSAGE.

BUT IF YOU PASS, IF YOU PAINT IT WITH LATEX PAINT, NO AIR, NO, NO, NO WATER IS COMING THROUGH THAT DISC.

IT'S STOPPING AT THAT BARRIER.

AND THIS IS IN HAMILTON? YES.

THAT'S AN UNFORTUNATE PORCH POST THERE.

GREAT, GREAT BUILDING THOUGH.

THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITES.

UM, SO LATEX PAINT ON MASONRY BRICKS CAN'T ROCK.

IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT WOOD.

BUT WHAT HAPPENS TO BRICK ON A MOLECULAR LEVEL IS THAT COATING DOESN'T ALLOW THE BRICKS TO DRY PROPERLY.

IT'LL, IT'LL KEEP 'EM WET.

AND WHEN IT DOES DRY, UM, WHATEVER'S IN THE WATER, TYPICALLY IN OUR AREA, IT'S GONNA BE SALT.

IT'S GONNA EFFS ON TOP OF, UH, THE BRICK.

AND IT'S AT A, AT A MICROSCOPIC LEVEL, IF YOU'RE TAKING A MICROSCOPE AND LOOK AT IT, THE SALT IS TURNS INTO SALT CRYSTALS AND IT'S LIKE LITTLE KNIVES.

AND VERY SLOWLY THEY STAB THE BRICK AND TURN UNTIL IT SPAS.

YOU SEE THOSE POWDERING BRICKS THAT IT'S LIKE, WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT BRICK? UM, IT HAPPENED TO BE ONE OF THE SOFTEST FIRED BRICKS.

BUT IF YOU HAVE A, A, UH, POUR COATING ON, UH, MASONRY, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THIS SPING OVER TIME, THE DETERIORATION OF MORTAR.

UM, 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOT ABLE TO DISPERSE THAT, UM, MOISTURE LIKE IT SHOULD BE.

MATT, CAN WE GET THIS SLIDE FOR OUR STUFF? IT'S ON THE THUMB DRIVE.

HAVE IT? CAN, CAN WE USE THAT? YEAH, THAT WOULD BE POWERFUL.

NONE OF THESE PHOTOS ARE, UH, COPYRIGHT.

NO, NO.

THESE ARE ALL REED THOMAS' PHOTOS.

UH, THIS MIGHT BE CHARLESTON.

SO HAVE AT IT.

UM, THIS IS A NON BREATHABLE COATING ON A PLASTERED, UH, OR, OR RENDERED EXTERIOR.

AND YOU CAN SEE THAT WATER BUBBLING, THAT ANYTIME YOU SEE THAT SAGGING BUBBLE, THAT'S WATER TRYING TO PIERCE THROUGH.

IT'S TRYING TO DO WHAT IT'S GONNA DO AND IT'S JUST GOING TO BREAK OPEN, UH, THE, UH, PAINT.

AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S GONNA BUBBLE JUST LIKE THAT.

VERY HARD FOR US TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

IT LOOKS LIKE THE RING HOUSE.

REALLY? I THOUGHT IT WAS .

I THINK IT'S SO HARD FOR US HOMEOWNERS TO DO THE RIGHT THING BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE PRODUCTS AVAILABLE.

AND THEN, AND I GUESS SOME OF THE KNOWLEDGE TOO.

UH, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE WE NEED LOBBYISTS TO SPEAK TO PAINT STORE COMPANIES OR AN HPC TO PROVIDE SOME EDUCATION.

BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT READILY AVAILABLE TOO.

SO IT'S GONNA, IT'S A DIFFICULT PROCESS.

WELL, I HAVE TO WONDER WHAT PERCENTAGE OF HOMEOWNERS IN NEWBURN DO ALL THE WORK THEMSELVES? YOU, YOU, YOU HIRE A PROFESSIONAL PAINTER AND THEY PROBABLY DON'T KNOW, BUT THE PAINTER DOESN'T KNOW.

THE PAINTERS TELL 'EM WHAT TO DO AND THEY THINK THEY'RE DO DOING THE BEST THING.

BUY THE HIGHEST OIL OIL, $70 GALLON PAINT OIL BASED PRIME ON WITH, WITH A COUPLE COATS OF HIGH LATE TECH.

ACTUALLY DO THE WORK THEMSELVES.

YOU JUST GOT YOUR HOUSE PAINTED AND EXACTLY.

THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE TOLD.

DON'T WORRY.

JIM'S GONNA PROVIDE US ALL WHAT WE NEED.

WELL, AND THAT'S, AND THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

I THINK, UH, GREGORY IS WHAT, WHAT YOU SAID, UM, MOST OF THE DECISIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING ON, ON THE HOUSES IN THIS TOWN, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS HAVE THE LARGEST HISTORIC DISTRICT IN THE STATE.

THERE'S SO MUCH HOUSING STOCK HERE, THE SUPER IMPORTANT TOWN THAT MOST OF THE DECISIONS ARE HAPPENING BETWEEN THE PROPERTY OWNER AND THE CONTRACTOR.

YOU GUYS AREN'T A PART OF IT.

UM, IN EDENTON IT'S THE SAME WAY.

IN BATH IT WAS THE SAME WAY.

UM, IT'S THE DISAPPOINTING FACT.

BUT I'M INTERESTED IN COMING BACK.

IF, IF WE COULD, YOU KNOW, H HPCS, IN MY OPINION, SHOULD BE ALSO AN EDUCATING BODY.

I'M HAPPY TO COME BACK AND HAVE A CONTRACTOR PRESERVATION CONTRACTORS MEETING, INVITE CONTRACTORS.

AND I'LL, I'LL, I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS STUFF WITH THEM.

ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS.

LIKE HOMEOWNERS TOO.

HOMEOWNERS TOO.

UM, BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY, THE CONTRACTORS, HOMEOWNERS ARE GREAT, BUT MOST OF THE HOMEOWNERS, YOU'RE RIGHT, WHOEVER SAID THAT DON'T

[02:10:01]

THEY'RE GONNA HIRE SOMEONE AND RELY ON THE EXPERTISE.

AND THAT PERSON'S JUST GOING TO SHERWIN WILLIAMS PICKING UP GALLONS OF, UH, LATEX AND PUTTING IT ON THE HOUSE.

'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY KNOW.

WE, WE COULD DO A SPECIAL CERTIFICATION.

NEWBURN CERTIFIED PAINTER.

ONE OF THE, I'VE GONE THROUGH THE TRAINING AND THEN, UH, THE OWNER, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

HPC AWARD.

'CAUSE MOST OF OUR CONTRACTORS ARE GOOD HARD WORKERS.

AND NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE.

AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING THAT'S CHEMISTRY, BAD PAIN, OR ANY OF THE PRO, YOU KNOW, PROPERTIES.

AND IF, AND THEN THEY'RE RELYING ON THEIR SHERWIN WILLIAMS REPS.

SO THEY'RE GO INTO SHERWIN WILLIAMS AND SAY, I HEARD THIS CRAZY GUY FROM EDENS AND TELL ME ABOUT LINDSAY OLD PAINT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK? AND IT'S LIKE, WE HAVE SCIENTISTS ALL OVER THE PLACE WORKING ON THIS STUFF.

THEY CAN'T KNOW MORE ANY MORE THAN THIS GUY.

WELL, IN NEW, IT'S THE BENJAMIN MOORE MAN, THE BENJAMIN MOORE.

AND BENJAMIN MOORE DOES NOT MAKE ANY KIND OF OIL PAINT ANYMORE.

WOW.

AND I HAD THIS CONVERSATION AT GREAT LENGTH WITH RANDY QUIGLEY.

AND I JUST HAD TO QUIT, QUIT SHOPPING THERE.

THEY MAKE, THEY MAKE A PRIME.

BENJAMIN MAKES IT PRIMER OIL.

NOT ANYMORE.

NOT ACCORDING TO RANDY BUY.

YOU CAN BUY OIL PRIMER STILL.

IT'S NOT BENJAMIN MOORE.

BUT NOT BENJAMIN MOORE.

OH.

WELL, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT I'VE SEEN WITH, SEEN COME UP WITH, WITH LYNNE OIL PAINT.

AND BY THE WAY, I'M A HUGE PROPONENT OF LENDED OIL PAINT.

I'M USING THAT ON ALL THE SASHES.

I'M RESTORING, BUT IT TAKES LONGER TO DRY.

AND THESE PAINT CONTRACTORS WANNA BE ABLE TO COME IN AND POSSIBLY DO TWO COATS A DAY.

DO IT IN THE MORNING AND THEN BEFORE YOU GO PUT THIS COAT ON.

AND THAT'S, I DON'T THINK THAT'S FEASIBLE WITH LEND SEED OIL PAINT.

HOW DO WE GET AROUND THAT, THAT ARGUMENT? THAT IS A TOUGH ONE.

I MEAN, LEN OIL PAINT IT.

I, I CAN PUT ANOTHER COAT OF LEN OIL PAINT ON A HOUSE IN MAYBE 48 HOURS.

TWO DAYS.

SO THAT'S A 48 HOUR TURNAROUND TIME.

THE ANOTHER KEY TO LINSE OIL IS BRUSHING IT ON AS THIN AS POSSIBLE.

'CAUSE IF YOU KIND OF CAVE AND PREY, LIKE THEY SAY IN THE AUTO BODY, UH, REPAIR INDUSTRY, UM, IF YOU'RE JUST FLOODING ALL THE CRACKS, THAT STUFF WILL NEVER DRY.

WHEN WE WERE TAKEN APART, THE REPRODUCTION WOODWORK AT THE CUPOLA HOUSE THAT WAS PAINTED WITH LEN SEEDED OLD PAINT, HOW MANY YEARS AGO, RICHARD? 20.

A HUNDRED AND, YEAH, 20 YEARS AGO.

WHEN WE WERE TAKING IT DOWN, I TOOK THE CORNES OFF.

I GOT LEN SEEDED OLD PAINT ALL OVER MY HANDS BECAUSE THEY JUST PLASTERED THAT STUFF ON THERE.

SO YOU REALLY HAVE TO DRAW IT OUT TO LET IT DRY.

BUT IN MY EXPERIENCE, I'VE EVEN PAINTED IT NEXT DAY.

UM, IF IT'S, IF IT'S A REALLY HOT DAY, IF IT'S OVERCAST AND MAYBE SLIGHTLY COOL, IT'S, IT'LL, IT'LL, IT'LL TAKE 48 HOURS.

UM, SO THEY COULD ROTATE THROUGH THEIR, THROUGH THEIR CUSTOMERS.

THEY PAINT ONE ONE DAY, GO TO THE NEXT CUSTOMER, AND THEN COME BACK TO THE FIRST ONE.

BUT PUT IT, DO ONE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.

THEY COULD FIGURE IT OUT.

FORT TELL THE CONTRACTOR IT'S A PREMIUM SERVICE.

THEY LOVE THAT WORD.

WHEN BENGAL DID EVERY METAL ROOF IN NEW BERN AND DID ALL THE REPAINTING OF THE METAL ROOFS HE HAD, IT WAS ALWAYS RED BECAUSE HE BOUGHT IN BULK SOMETHING THAT WAS CALLED LONG OIL ROOF PAINT.

IT WAS VERY SLOW DRYING, BUT IT WAS INCREDIBLY TOUGH.

AND IT WAS LINDSEY OIL.

AND THAT'S, THAT'S GREAT STUFF.

SOME OF THESE LARGE STRUCTURES TO HAVE LIKE THE CABOT OIL.

SO MATT ASKED ME TO TALK ABOUT BREATHABLE MASONRY COATINGS, AND, AND YOU GUYS MENTIONED THAT, UM, THIS IS LIME WASH ON A CHARLESTON BUILDING.

THIS IS PROPER LIME WASH PIGMENTED WITH A, A YELLOW OCHRE.

UM, AND YOU CAN SEE THOSE, THOSE FLASHING SPOTS.

I THINK THIS WAS TAKEN IN THE MORNING.

AND WHAT THAT'S DOING IS IT'S DISSIPATING THE MORNING DEW OUT OF THE, UH, SUBSTRATE, AND IT'S LETTING IT JUST TURN INTO VAPOR.

AND, BUT, YOU KNOW, IN AN HOUR, THIS WILL BE SOLID YELLOW ALL OVER AGAIN.

IS IS, IS THAT OVER? UH, UH, PROBABLY BRICK OR STONE.

IS THAT YEAH, STONE OR A BRICK OR LIME MORTAR OR EVEN COQUINA? YEAH.

I'M NOT PROBABLY BRICK.

PROBABLY BRICK.

SO YOU'D BUILT WITH BRICK, YOU'D PGE IT, YOU'D DO YOUR FAUX BLOCKS SCORING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT'S A, YOU KNOW, SANDSTONE, AND THEN YOU PAINT IT WITH A LIME WASH.

UH, LIME WASHES OR MINERAL PAINTS ARE REALLY YOUR ONLY PAINTS, UH, FOR MASONRY BUILDINGS.

ANYTHING ELSE, UM, IS, IS GONNA BE TRAPPING THAT MOISTURE.

MOUNT VERNON HAS SWITCHED ENTIRELY TO LINSEED OLD PAINT.

UM, I MEAN, THEY HAVE FANTASTIC RUSTIC SIDING.

IT CANNOT BE LOST.

THEY WERE LOSING IT, UH, SLOWLY.

UM, STUFF WAS ROTTING.

AND FINALLY THEY GOT WITH THE COMPANY, UM, I WAS ORDERING FROM EARTH AND FLAX.

AND SO S AND PAINT IS NOW THE MAIN SUPPLIER FOR MOUNT VERNON.

YOU KNOW, EARLY ON YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT, UH, YOU KNOW,

[02:15:01]

ARE YOU RECOMMENDING THAT FOR MASONRY AS WELL? KIND OF A, A, A, A, A STAIN? OR ARE YOU LIME WASH ONLY ON, ON BRICKS? I WOULD, I WOULD ONLY USE LIME WASH ON BRICK.

UM, CABOT, I JUST, I DON'T THINK IT'S TESTED EN ENOUGH.

UM, AND EVEN WITH THE OIL, IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT PROPERTY THAN WHAT THE LIME IS GONNA DO.

UM, LIME IS LIKE A, LIKE A HIGHWAY FOR MOISTURE.

IT'S, I MEAN, WHEN YOU GET IT ON YOUR SKIN, IT BURNS YOUR SKIN BECAUSE IT'S DRAWING SO MUCH MOISTURE OUT OF YOUR, OUT OF, OUT OF, OUT OF YOUR SKIN.

UM, OIL IS, IS GONNA HAM OR DAMPEN THAT A LITTLE BIT.

THE, THE NEXT ONE.

THIS IS THE BEAUTIFUL ROOFS OF MOUNT VERNON.

THEY HAD PAINTED, UH, REED THOMAS GOT THEIR RECIPE AND PAINTED ONE OF HIS BUILDINGS WITH LATEX PAINT, UH, OVER CEDAR SHINGLES.

UM, BUT THE CONTRACTOR SLASH UH, CONSULTANT PETER POST DISCOVERED THAT IT WAS ROTTING THESE REALLY, REALLY EXPENSIVE ROOFS THAT THEY WERE PUTTING DOWN.

AND THEY HAND STRIPPED EVERY SHINGLE ON MOUNT VERNON.

AND THEY HAVE SINCE GONE BACK.

UM, I GUESS THAT'S TO THE RIGHT UP THERE.

THE MAIN HOUSE, UH, THE HYPHEN IS LATEX.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THE MAIN HOUSE WITH THE INTERIOR GUTTERS.

THAT'S LINSEED OIL ON, ON THE MAIN HOUSE.

AND BY NOW IT'S, THE WHOLE HOUSE IS JUST ABOUT LINSEED OIL.

IT LOOKS GREAT.

THIS IS NICE ON CEDAR SHINGLES.

UM, MOST BUILDINGS WITH CEDAR SHINGLES HAD COATINGS.

UH, EVERYBODY LOVES THAT WORN WEATHERED LOOK, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY DECAY.

UM, I'M, I'M TRYING TO GET HIS STATE HISTORIC SITES TO START COATING THEIR CEDAR BUILDINGS BECAUSE THEY USE LOTS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO PUT BEAUTIFUL CEDAR SHAKES ALL OVER THESE, UH, BUILDINGS THEY HAVE THROUGHOUT THE STATE, AND THEN THEY SLOWLY DECAY AND THEY'RE NOT ACTUALLY DOING PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE ON 'EM.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER ONE OF MY CAUSES TEND OF THE, ANYTIME WE WANT TO STOP .

THAT'S GOOD.

THIS IS ACTUALLY NOT A SCARY ROOM FOR ME.

UM, IT LOOKS LIKE A TEAR DOWN ALMOST.

BUT REALLY THIS IS THE, UH, HUMIDITY IS SHEDDING AS MUCH PAINT AS IT WANTS TO SHED, AND IT'S DOING WHAT IT WANTS TO DO.

SO THIS IS TOTALLY REPAIRABLE.

KEEP GOING.

THIS IS MORE FLOOD RESILIENCY.

THAT'S LATEX PAINT PEELING OFF A PLASTER, ESPECIALLY NEAR THE HUMIDITY OF A, UH, SUPPLY DUCT.

WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO REMOVE THAT IN ENTIRE CEILING.

YOU DON'T, WE CAN BREEZE PAST THIS.

SO, SO THE, GOING BACK TO THE BRICK, SO, SO THE, UM, UH, INFORMATION THAT THEY GOT REGARDING THE, UM, PROPERTY DOWN ON CRAVEN STREET, TO PUT SOME KIND OF A STAIN ON IT, TO GIVE IT A MORE UNIFORM LOOK, UM, I'M GUESSING THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN YOUR RECOMMENDATION ON THAT AT ALL.

NO, NO.

UM, I'M NOT SURE WHY THAT WAS RECOMMENDED.

THAT HAPPENED I THINK WITHIN A FEW MONTHS BE, UH, BEFORE I ARRIVED.

UM, AND IT'S REALLY UP TO EACH OF THOSE MPS OR EVEN SHIPPO, UH, COLLEAGUES OF MINE.

IT'S UP TO THEIR INDIVIDUAL KNOWLEDGE AND THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE MOMENT.

UM, BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING, WE, I MEET WITH THAT LADY.

WE ALL MEET WITH THAT LADY EVERY TWO WEEKS.

UM, SO I THINK I REMEMBER EARLY ON IN THE, IN HER DISCUSSION, SHE WAS DRIVEN A LOT BY TRYING TO MAKE IT LOOK UNIFORM LIKE IT WAS WHEN IT WAS NEW MM-HMM .

AND THAT MAY HAVE SHIFTED IT TO, HOW DO I MAKE IT THE SAME COLOR EVERYWHERE, PERHAPS.

ACCEPTABLE ON STONE, BRICK OR BRICK.

AND WE DO HAVE A, A FORMER GUIDELINE THAT TALKS ABOUT DEALING WITH THAT, WHERE WE WOULD ALLOW CODING TO TRY TO DEAL WITH CHANGES IN THE, IN THE THING OVER TIME WHERE THERE'S INCONSISTENCY IN THE, IN THE APPEARANCE.

BUT, UM, YEAH, IT, IT THREW US.

BUT, UM, AND I, I THINK, UH, BETWEEN US, ONE OF THE FACTORS WITH THAT DECISION ON HER PART WAS THAT WAS WHEN THEY WERE FACING SEVERE CUTS IN MPS AND THEY KIND OF SLACKENED A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THEY WERE ALSO WORRIED ABOUT THEIR JOBS IN THAT MOMENT.

UM, SO I THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CONCERN.

UM, BUT THAT'S PROBABLY ALL THE SLIDES I COULD GO THROUGH.

UM, I PROMISE I WON'T DO ANOTHER 146 SLIDE THING, , UH, BUT IF THERE'S ANY TIME YOU GUYS WANT ME TO COME BACK AND IF THERE'S A HOT BUTTON TOPIC YOU WANT ME TO PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER ON, I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT.

UM, HAPPY TO TALK WITH CONTRACTORS, HOMEOWNERS, ANYBODY.

UM, YOU SAID LINE WASH WOULD BE

[02:20:01]

IT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE WITH THE CAVEAT IF IT'S APPROPRIATE.

BUT IS IT BETTER TO NOT DO IT AT ALL? UM, YOU'VE GOT ORIGINAL BRICK 1880S.

IS IT BETTER TO JUST NOT, I WOULD SAY IT'S BETTER TO LEAVE IT UNLESS YOU'RE DEALING WITH JUST SERIES OF CAMPAIGNS OF JUST BAD PATCHWORK.

UM, YOU KNOW, THEY, I MEAN, THIS WAS A COMMON THING.

I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE 1880S, BUT EARLIER ON, THAT'S WHERE MY, UH, INTEREST FOCUSES.

THEY WOULD TINT DO TINTED LIME WASHES OF LIKE A RED, THEY'D JUST PAINT THE WHOLE CHIMNEY, LIKE A STAINED RED COLOR TO BLEND EVERYTHING IS, 'CAUSE THEY DIDN'T ACTUALLY LIKE EARTH TONES.

THEY LIVED IN THE EARTH TONE.

THEY WANTED TO SEE BRIGHT RED, BUT LIKE THAT COVERS ALL THE MORTAR AND EVERYTHING ELSE TOO.

IT DOES, YEAH.

AND EARLY, EARLY ON THEY WOULD GO AND, LIKE RICHARD MIGHT KNOW IF IN THE 1880S THEY'D GO BACK WITH, UH, WHITE LIME AND STRIKE THE JOINTS WHITE, WHICH IS, THAT'S A LOT OF WORK.

WELL, 1771, MY, THE NEW BRICK AT MY HOUSE WAS LINE WASHED WITH YELLOW RE YEP.

SO, YEAH.

AND WHEN WAS THAT? 70? 71.

WERE YOU IN HIGH SCHOOL THEN? ? I THINK RICHARD BUILT THAT HOUSE.

I REMEMBER HE DID THAT.

UM, CLOSING, UH, IF YOU GUYS WANT TO SEE A HOUSE IN TOWN, I DON'T KNOW OF ANOTHER LINDSEY HOLE PAINT HOUSE IN TOWN.

YOU WANT KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE HOUSE.

UM, DAD OWNS 3 0 8 METCALF STREET.

UM, THAT'S A RENTAL FOR HIM.

I CONSULTED ON THAT PROJECT.

AND IT'S PAINTED WITH SISON LINDSEY OIL PAINT.

WHAT COLOR IS THAT HOUSE? IT'S, UM, I THINK IT'S CALLED LEAF GREEN.

AND, UH, MICHAEL OWNS IT.

IS THAT THE ONE WITH THE F PAINTED DOORS? YEP.

I PAINTED THE DOORS.

THE, IS THAT THE YEAH, THE GREEN DOORS? MM-HMM .

UH, YEAH, IT'S LEAF GREEN.

UH, THE TAN TRIM IS WHEAT, GR WHEAT GRAY AND THE DARK IS BURNT LUMBER.

IT'S A GOOD LOOKING HOUSE.

AND THAT'S ALL LEN OIL.

ALL LEN OIL.

OH, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

HE'S ROLLED HIS EYES AT ME A FEW TIMES FOR THAT .

SO, BUT I HAVE TO REMIND HIM HE IS NOT REPLACING SIDING.

SO, SO, SO WADE, UH, WE, WE'VE MENTIONED STAIN KIND OF HERE AND THERE, UH, LINSEED OIL PAINT VERSUS A SOLID STAIN.

WHAT DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT SOLID STAINS ON THE SIDE? UM, KNOWN FOR A, A WOOD COATING.

UM, I THINK THE OIL-BASED STUFF IS PROBABLY THE PREFERRED USE OR THE, UH, PREFERRED PRODUCT.

UM, I HESITATE AT THE, I KNOW SUPERDECK, UM, 9,600 D SERIES BY SHERM WILLIAMS. THAT'S IN A, A ALKALDE BASE, BUT IT'S STILL, IT'S NOT GONNA BE AS BREATHABLE AS A LINSEED OIL.

UH, THE CABOT OIL BASE STAIN.

IT'S PROBABLY AN ALKALDE MIX.

UM, MAYBE TALK TO CABOT ABOUT THAT.

I'VE NOT USED IT MYSELF.

I HAVE A CAN.

I'VE JUST NOT USED IT.

UM, IT'S, IT'S STILL GONNA BE BREATHABLE.

I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA BE AS BREATHABLE AS LINSEED OIL PAINT RIGHT NOW.

AND, UM, I, I'VE SEEN PEOPLE WITH, UH, PORCHES AND DECKS TO USE A PRODUCT LIKE THAT.

UM, ARE YOU ADVOCATING USING LENS SEED FOR THE DECK MATERIAL AS WELL? YOU, YOU COULD, YOU COULD, UH, THE, WITH THE CAVEAT THERE THOUGH, IS MOST PORCHES AREN'T ORIGINAL.

YOU, YOU, YOU WANT YOUR INVESTMENT TO LAST LONGER, SO YOU'RE GONNA WANT TO PUT THE BEST KIND OF PAINT ON A PORCH AS POSSIBLE.

UM, BUT IT'S NOT, THAT'S IN MY MIND, A LITTLE LESS PRESERVATION.

IF, IF YOU HAVE TO REPLACE YOUR PORCH MORE FREQUENTLY, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE DESTROYING HISTORIC FABRIC, UM, TO THE SAME DEGREE.

BUT I THINK HABIT IS PROBABLY ACCEPTABLE FOR, UM, MODERN REPLACEMENT PORCH.

FLOORBOARDS OR, OR THE SHERWIN.

I WOULD PROBABLY USE THE CABINET FIRST.

UH, BUT I JUST HESITATE 'CAUSE IT'S A PLASTIC PRODUCT.

WHICH I DON'T, I DON'T, I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA BREATHE AS WELL.

THEY SAY IT'S BREATHABLE.

THEY SAY IT HAS A LITTLE BIT OF OIL IN IT.

I'M JUST STILL A LITTLE GUN SHY OF THE PRODUCT.

PERSONALLY.

THE CABOT OR THE SHER WILLIAMS ONE.

THE SHERWIN WILLIAMS. JUST BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN OIL BASED PRODUCT.

THAT'S WHAT I USE INTO THE REMOVAL I USED.

THIS IS THIS YELLOW THING HERE.

THAT'S THE, UM, INFRARED PAINT REMOVER.

THAT'S ONE OF THE BEST PAINT STRIPPERS YOU CAN, YOU CAN GET.

THEY'RE EXPENSIVE.

THAT LITTLE THING RIGHT THERE IS MAYBE 550 BUCKS.

UH, BUT WHAT IT DOES IS IT'S SAFELY WITHOUT TOO MUCH SMOKING, BUT ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT WITHOUT FLAME HEATS THE PAINT TO BELOW THE TEMPERATURE IN WHICH, UH, TOXIC FUMES START TO OCCUR.

AND THEN YOU JUST TAKE A SCRAPER

[02:25:01]

AND, AND REMOVE IT.

AND YOU CAN REMOVE, UH, LIKE A 12 BY FIVE SHEET, UH, EVERY 30 SECONDS.

SO IT'S TEDIOUS, BUT IT'S, IT'S A METHOD.

HAVE YOU SEEN THE LASER PAINT REMOVAL YET? I HAVE, YEAH.

UM, THERE'S A LIN OIL PAINT COMPANY BRUS OUT OF, UH, THE UK AND THEY ALSO HAVE A PARTNER IN SAVANNAH, GEORGIA.

THEY'RE STARTING TO USE IT AND IT LOOKS FANTASTIC.

UM, AGAIN, SUPER EXPENSIVE EQUIPMENT.

SO EXPENSIVE.

HOW DO THEY, HOW DOES THAT WORK? IS IT, IS IT A SMALL UNIT? IT, THINK OF IT LIKE, MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I HAVEN'T PERSONALLY SEEN IT.

I'VE SEEN IT, UH, I'VE SEEN VIDEOS, I'VE SEEN A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION ON IT.

BUT THINK ABOUT IT LIKE, UM, WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH LASER TATTOO REMOVAL, ESSENTIALLY IT BLASTS IT WITH LASER LIGHT AND IT MORE OR LESS VAPORIZES.

THE, BUT HOW BIG OF AN AREA, YOU MEAN? YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT IS SMALL, YOU KNOW, SO YOU'RE, UH, I MAYBE THREE BY THREE THE STUFF I'VE SEEN, YOU'RE PROBABLY AN INCH BAND.

SO YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING BACK AND FORTH AND YOU CAN'T, MY UNDERSTANDING IS YOU CAN BURN IF YOU'RE, YOU DON'T MOVE FAST ENOUGH IF YOU'RE NOT GOING FAST ENOUGH.

SO I DON'T KNOW A TON ABOUT IT.

THAT'S KIND OF WHY I ASKED AS WELL.

DON'T KNOW A TON ABOUT IT, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE VERY INTERESTING AND QUICK.

IT'LL STRIP, UM, FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN FROM VIDEOS, IT'LL STRIP, YOU KNOW, LAYERS AND LAYERS AND LAYERS ON SUPER COMPLICATED AND VERY DELICATE WOOD.

MAYBE THEY HAD THE WOOD TRIMS AND THINGS, THE INTRICATE STUFF.

YOU GET INTO LIKE, HEAVILY, HEAVILY LACQUERED OR OVER PAINTED FURNITURE WITH SUPER HIGH DETAIL WOOD CARVING IN IT.

AND YOU CAN KIND OF GO RIGHT THROUGH IT AND IT'LL STRIP IT RIGHT DOWN TO THE WALL.

SO, SO THIS INFRARED IS, IS, IS, INSTEAD OF HAVING THE HEAT GUNS OR THE, UH, FLAMES OR, OR WHATEVER ELSE, YEAH.

IT'S, THAT IS ONE OF THE BEST THINGS TO USE, UM, IS THE, THE LASER STUFF IS STILL PRETTY NEW.

HOPEFULLY THAT STUFF WILL COME, IT COME OUT TO BE MAINSTREAM EVENTUALLY.

UM, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I ALWAYS SAY IS THAT THE SAME THING THE DOCTOR USES TO PERFORM SURGERY COULD ALSO BE USED AS A MURDER WEAPON.

, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S ALL THE GUY USING IT.

THAT'S WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO.

UM, SO, OKAY.

WELL WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

FAIR ENOUGH.

THANKS FOR HAVING WAS GREAT HAVING ME COME.

WE, THAT WAS AWESOME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND, AND WE'LL KEEP IN MIND, UM, MIKE IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE HYDRA HISTORIC DISTRICT RESIDENCE ASSOCIATION.

SO HE'S GOT ACCESS TO THOSE PEOPLE, MAYBE THE, AND GREGORY IS VP OF RIVERSIDE.

AND HE'S ALSO A REALTOR, SO.

AWESOME.

WE DON'T HOLD THAT AGAINST HIM.

MOSTLY AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE, BUT I THINK WE CAN GET THE WORD OUT BECAUSE YEAH.

AS KNOWLEDGEABLE AS EXPERIENCE TO I'VE HAD, I NEVER KNEW THAT I KNEW ABOUT MONTHS AGO, BUT I DIDN'T.

WELL, I BROUGHT A STACK OF CARDS FOR YOU GUYS TO PASS AROUND TO PEOPLE, UM, TO HAVE 'EM CONTACT ME.

I'M HAPPY TO COME BACK ANYTIME.

THAT'S ONE THING THAT GETS LOST THAT MATT KEEPS REMINDING ME IS THAT BECAUSE WE ARE A CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT, ALL THE RESIDENTS HAVE ACCESS TO SHIPPO MM-HMM .

AND SO THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S A BENEFIT OF US BEING CERTIFIED OVER EVEN, WELL, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT CERTIFIED, UM, I MEAN, 'CAUSE THERE'S PLENTY OF COUNTY OR, YOU KNOW, COUNTY FOLK, UM, THAT I'LL, I'LL TOTALLY GO UP TO, OKAY, I WILL GO, GO TO ANY PROJECT AND, AND, AND I GET PAID FOR THIS TAX DOLLARS.

SO, YEAH.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TALKED ABOUT WAS IF YOU USE LENCIA OR ANYTHING ELSE, YOU WANNA GET DOWN TO THE, TO THE BARE WOOD, WE, WE'VE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE BEST WAY OF, OF DOING SO.

UM, HAND SANDING AND, AND VERSUS SCRAPERS.

WHAT, WHAT? OR, OR EVEN, UH, BLASTING IT SAND BLASTING OR KERNEL BLASTING WALNUT SHELLS.

IS THAT WHAT SOME, SOME KIND OF MEDIA BLASTING.

ITS AGE, UM, BUT YOU DO KIND OF WANT THE WHISKERS KNOCKED DOWN.

SO WHAT, WHAT'S, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON, ON, ON THE DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES ON WHAT IS PREFERABLE TO NOT HARM THE, THE MATERIAL AND STILL GIVE A GOOD SURFACE? WELL, FOR EXTERIOR I WOULD USE MECHANICAL SCRAPERS.

UH, THERE'S A CARBIDE TRIANGULAR SCRAPER.

THAT'S A GREAT ONE THAT'S MADE ME THINK ABOUT IT HERE.

THAT'S A FANTASTIC ONE.

UM, I LIKE THE FIVE IN ONES.

THAT PROFILE SCRAPER CAN BE NICE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE ANY KIND OF PROFILED EDGES AROUND DOORS, WINDOWS, OR YOUR SIDING.

UM, THOSE, THOSE ARE REALLY NICE.

I HAVE TRIED THE, THE PAINT EATERS, THEY'RE OKAY, BUT THEY LEAVE SWIRLS ALL OVER YOUR SIDING.

I HAVE USED THE, I THINK IT'S CALLED A DIAMOND BRUSH.

IT'S A BIG PLASTIC WHEEL WITH DIAMOND PADDLES ALL OVER IT.

THAT'LL DIG RIGHT INTO CYPRESS AND RUIN ABOARD VERY QUICKLY.

UM, I'VE NOT FOUND ANY LIKE TOOL OTHER THAN MECHANICAL TOOLS THAT REALLY DO A GOOD JOB.

UM, I'LL DO A VERY LIGHT AMOUNT OF SANDING.

I DON'T SIT THERE AND SAND UNTIL IT'S SMOOTH.

UM, I LIKE, I LIKE THE TEXTURE, LOOK ON THE MM-HMM .

SIDING.

'CAUSE IT, IT, IT SHOWS

[02:30:01]

SO YOU JUST, YOU CAN TAKE A QUICK PASS WITH SANDING.

UH, BUT JUST TO KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU'RE, UM, IF IT'S LEAD PAINT, YOU'RE GETTING IT IN THE AIR AND WEARING PROPER PPE, BUT THE, THE, THE, THE POWER WASH AND THE UM, UH, WALNUT SHELLS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU'RE RECOMMENDING.

I WOULDN'T, AND WE HAD A MASSIVE FAILURE ON THE KISH A E ZION CHURCH IN EDENTON.

UM, THEY POWER WASHED WITH THE WHIRLY BIRD, UM, ON THE ENTIRE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MUCH SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WAS.

UM, BUT THEY LEFT SQUIGGLY LINES ALL OVER EVERY SURFACE OF THIS, UM, THIS, THIS CHURCH.

AND THEY HAD TO SAND THEM ALL DOWN.

UM, 'CAUSE BACK SOME OF OUR EARLIER CONVERSATIONS.

COOL.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYONE, UH, TO LOOK AT SECTION SIX AND GUIDELINES.

WE TRIED TO, WE'VE TRIED TO REALLY BEEF THAT UP AND A LOT OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT, PARTICULARLY WITH THE PAINTS IS IN THERE.

ANOTHER THING I'D LIKE, THIS IS THE NEW YEAH.

OUR GUIDELINES THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY UPDATING.

ANOTHER THING THAT I, I THINK WOULD BE VERY WORTHWHILE FOR YOU TO COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT IS THE WHOLE THING WITH OLD BRICKS AND LIME MORTAR VERSUS PORTLAND CEMENT AND ALL THAT.

THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE ENCOUNTER QUITE A BIT FROM, FROM PROPERTY OWNERS.

THEY JUST, THEY THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T KNOW.

SO MOST OF THIS KNOWLEDGE IS NOT A MAINSTREAM THING.

YOU HAVE TO BE OBSESSED WITH THIS STUFF OR RESEARCH IT ON, ON YOUR OWN TIME TO FIGURE THIS STUFF OUT.

UM, BUT YEAH, I'M HAPPY TO COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT LIME MORTAR.

I ACTUALLY DO HAVE A PRESENTATION MADE FOR THE WHOLE LIME CYCLE I DID FOR, UH, THE GREENSBORO PRESERVATION PROGRAM.

YEAH, THAT'D BE INTERESTING.

BUT WE'D LIKE TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY ENCOURAGING PROPERTY OWNERS TO DO THIS WORK, BUT HOW TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE CONTRACTOR, HANDYMAN, WHOEVER IS THAT'S DOING THE WORK SO THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING TO RIGHT.

TO PRESERVE THIS STUFF.

AND WHAT I'VE DONE IS I'LL, I'LL HIRE GUYS.

I HIRED A BRICK MASON.

HE WAS HISPANIC, OR HE IS HISPANIC.

HE DIDN'T CHANGE.

UM, HE, UH, HE WAS DOING LIME MORTAR WORK FOR ME.

I MIXED ALL THE LIME MORTAR MYSELF.

HE HAD NEVER WORKED ON A HISTORIC PROJECT.

AND, UM, THIS WAS, HE SAID, HE SAID, IT ALL HAS TO BE DONE BEFORE CHRISTMAS.

'CAUSE I'M GOING HOME TO MEXICO TO, TO SEE MY FAMILY.

I SAID, FINE, THAT'S, YEAH, WHATEVER WE, WE, WE, WE CAN HANDLE THAT.

SO HE DID THE WORK.

I THINK HE KIND OF ENJOYED IT.

HE WENT HOME.

HE, HE RESTORED ALL THE ENGLISH FOND LATTICE AROUND OUR FOUNDATION.

UH, WENT HOME TO MEXICO AND I DIDN'T HEAR FROM HIM FOR A WHILE.

AND I CALLED HIM BACK TO DO ANOTHER MY, MY FRONT STEPS JOB.

AND HE, I SAID, CAN HE BREAK AWAY FROM, UH, YOUR BRICK CREW TO, YOU KNOW, JUST DO SOME SOLO WORK FOR ME? HE GOES, ACTUALLY, I STARTED MY OWN COMPANY.

I WENT BACK TO MEXICO AND I REALIZED EVERYTHING THEY'RE DOING IS LIME MORTAR THERE.

AND FOR SOME REASON, I'M JUST SEEING THIS REOCCURRING THING WHERE IN THE US WE'RE USING THE WRONG MORTARS.

SO I STARTED DOING THIS RESEARCH, WENT DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE OF THE FRENCH AND ENGLISH, UM, RESTORATION COMPANIES, AND HE STARTED HIS OWN BUSINESS AND HE'S FOCUSING ON HISTORIC WORK.

THAT'S AWESOME.

UM, SO IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS OF LIKE, JUST, JUST TALKING TO PEOPLE, EDUCATING PEOPLE.

THAT'S, THAT'S HOW THIS STUFF GETS OUT.

WE'RE GONNA KNOW WHAT HIS PHONE NUMBER IS.

I'LL SHARE IT.

HE WOULD LOVE TO COME.

WHERE IS HE? IN TON? ELIZABETH CITY.

OH, OKAY.

SO IT MIGHT WORK FOR YOU.

RIDE DOWN WITH YOU ON A MONDAY.

ALL RIGHT.

AND HE HASN'T REALIZED FULLY HOW VALUABLE HIS SERVICE IS YET.

SO HAVE A NICE FOUNDATION THAT'S BEEN PAINTED.

THAT WAS, THAT WAS GREAT.

ALRIGHT, I'LL LET YOU GUYS END YOUR MEETING.

THAT'S IT.

NEXT THING WAS DISCUSSION ON STANDARDS AND POLICIES, UPDATES.

JUST A REMINDER ABOUT THE PUBLIC HEARING ON TUESDAY NEXT WEEK, THE SEVEN 5:30 PM IN THIS ROOM.

UH, MATT, POTENTIAL NEW MINOR WORKS ITEMS. THAT'S REALLY THE CARRYOVER FROM LAST MONTH, RIGHT? YES.

NOTHING NEW TO THAT WITH THE CHANGES THAT WE HAD ALL TALKED ABOUT.

AND I WAS HOPING TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THOSE CHANGES DRAFTED FOR TODAY, BUT CAN, COULDN'T.

COULDN'T.

COOL.

WELL, UM, SO WHAT HAPPENED FOR A COUPLE DAYS BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING CAME? , ANYTHING MOVING ON? PREVENTION OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT CASES? I'D ASKED YOU ABOUT THE REM HOUSE.

SO, UH, TIM AND GREGORY WERE IN THE, UH, MEETING THAT WE HAD YESTERDAY.

GEORGE REHOUSE IS AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.

SO GO AHEAD YOU GUYS, IF YOU WANNA, WHICH ONE WAS THAT OTHER REM HOUSE? GEORGE STREET.

[02:35:01]

UH, MATT'S GETTING TOGETHER A FAIRLY COMPREHENSIVE DOCUMENT WITH PICTURES THAT WILL GO TO THE PROPERTY ON IT.

IT'S ALREADY 25 PAGES LONG.

UH, I MEAN THERE, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT ARE AN ISSUE WITH, WITH THAT STRUCTURE THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED PRETTY QUICKLY.

UH, I DON'T HAVE, I DON'T HAVE THE SHEET IN FRONT OF ME.

UH, WE'VE MANAGED TO WHITTLE DOWN, UH, THE PREVENTION OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT PROPERTIES.

THE NUMBERS THAT ARE ON THE LIST, SOME OF THEM HAVE TAKEN CARE OF THEMSELVES.

UH, I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE STARTING TO MAKE SOME PROGRESS.

UH, THE, THE LIST FROM LAST MONTH, LAST MEETING WAS VERY GOOD, SO THANK YOU.

AND SOMETHING I ASKED MATT, I I DON'T JUST, MY HEAD WORKS THIS WAY.

WE HAVE SOME PROPERTIES, PARTICULARLY THAT ONE THAT DO WE NEED TO JUST GET THE DISCUSSION GOING BY TALKING ABOUT THE FIVE WORST ISSUES ON YOUR HOUSE? OR DO WE HAVE TO SPEND ALL OUR TIME COMING UP WITH 25 PAGES OF PROBLEMS WHEN HE'S NOT TALKING TO US ANYWAY? RIGHT.

SO, UM, IN THIS CASE, UM, HE HADN'T BEEN TALKING TO US.

WE HADN'T BEEN TALKING TO HIM FOR AT LEAST 10, 15 YEARS.

UH, AND I REALIZED THAT HE'S A LAWYER.

UH, HE'S WAY OUT OF TOWN UP IN NEW ENGLAND.

UM, AND SO IT JUST SEEMED LIKE IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO DO A THOROUGH, UM, REPORT TO HIM.

SO THAT HE COULD USE THAT TO THEN RELATIVELY EASILY, UH, YOU KNOW, TO HELP HIM GET MOVING FORWARD TO .

'CAUSE I MEAN, LITERALLY IT WAS 2012, MAYBE 2012 ADDRESS 12 ITEMS ON THE, ON THE STRUCTURE.

NOT JUST WHATEVER, BUT MAYBE FOR SOME OTHERS IT MIGHT BE JUST TO GET THAT DIALOGUE GOING.

AND I THINK THE RIM HOUSE IS A BIT UNIQUE IN THE SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN, IT'S BEEN AN ISSUE FOR YEARS AND WE'VE HAD, UH, HPC ADMINISTRATORS WHO, WHO STARTED THE CONVERSATION WITH HIM AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY MOVED ON AND ANOTHER PERSON CAME IN AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN STOP AND GO A NUMBER OF TIMES ON THE RIM HOUSE.

AND I, I MEAN, I COMMEND MATT FOR TRYING TO CONSOLIDATE ALL OF IT OVER THE YEARS AND, AND TRY TO GET THE GUY INVOLVED IN THE, IN A CONVERSATION TO REALLY ADDRESS THE ISSUES BECAUSE IT'S BEEN KIND OF PIECEMEAL IN THE PAST.

GOOD.

ANYTHING ELSE ON DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT, DRY BURROW? ANYTHING TIM? UH, WE'VE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD, WE'VE HAD SOME MEETINGS.

IT'S, IT'S, IT'S GOING SLOW.

UH, AS YOU KNOW, AS I EXPECTED, I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH DRY BURROW SINCE 2000, I DUNNO, 2010, 2011.

UH, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TRYING TO GET SOME SIGNAGE ON SOME OF THE IMPORTANT STRUCTURES.

UH, THAT'S, THAT'S GOING A BIT SLOW.

UH, UH, REVEREND HOLMES, UH, HAS HAD SOME HEALTH ISSUES.

SO THAT SLOWED US DOWN A BIT, I THINK.

I THINK THAT'S, UH, THAT'S WORKING ITSELF OUT.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE MAKING AN EFFORT TO, I WON'T TELL YOU WHAT GOING, ANY, TO MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN IN DRY BOROUGH.

I WON'T TELL YOU IT WAS GOING ANY FASTER WHEN I WAS ON YEAH, YEAH.

SO, AND MIKE, ANYTHING ON YOUR AWARDS PROGRAM? UH, JUST, UM, WE MENTIONED IT TO JOHN BARNES WITH THE PRESERVATION FOUNDATION.

HE THINKS IT'S AN AWESOME IDEA AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE PART OF THE PROCESS IN SOME WAY.

MAYBE THAT MEANS MONETARY MEANT THAT WOULD ALWAYS BE GOOD, BUT THE, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT IT MORE.

THAT WAS JUST A, A BRIEF CONVERSATION.

WELL, THERE WAS A VIDEO WHERE YOU WATCHED ABOUT PARTNERSHIPS THAT CAN HELP YOU WITHOUT, WITHOUT YOU SPENDING YOUR MONEY ON IT.

ANY STAFF REPORTS YOU WANT TO GO THROUGH? UM, LET'S SEE.

DID HE WATCH THAT? DID HE? OH, NO I DIDN'T.

JOHN BARN? NO.

NO.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE WATCHED IT.

I DID .

UH, OKAY.

MATT,

[5. BOARD AND STAFF TRAINING]

UH, THE ONLY ONE I SEE ON HERE IS SIX 14 NEW STREET.

UM, PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN THAT ONE AS WELL.

RESERVATION, DEMOLITION.

UH, WE TALKED TO THE CONTRACTOR AND ALSO HAD A MEETING WITH THE OWNER AND THE CONTRACTOR WAS TO BEGIN WITHIN, UH, TWO WEEKS.

THAT WAS ABOUT A WEEK OR TWO AGO.

I HAVEN'T CHECKED IN ON IT YET, BUT WE'LL SEE.

UH, MAYBE SOME ACTION HAPPENING THERE SOON.

AND 7 0 9 NEW.

YOU SENT ME A EMAIL EXCHANGE THERE.

IS THAT, THAT'S THE REBUILD.

OH, RIGHT.

UH, SEVEN TEN, SEVEN TEN SEVEN NINE.

WELL, WHATEVER.

THAT'S ALSO GETTING STARTED REALLY SOON TOO BECAUSE, UH, THEIR FUNDING RUNS OUT IN OCTOBER.

[02:40:01]

SO, SO, BUT WHATEVER ISSUE THERE WAS HAS BEEN RESOLVED.

OH YES.

THEY SHOULD, SHOULD HAVE PULLED THEIR PERMIT, BUILDING PERMIT, UH, WEEKS AGO NOW.

SO IT MAY JUST BE A MATTER OF JUST GETTING GEARED UP BECAUSE I DID DRIVE BY THERE ABOUT A WEEK AGO AND NOTHING, NOTHING STARTED YET.

IT'S GONNA BE TIGHT TO GET IT DONE BY OCTOBER.

UH, I THINK SO.

WE'LL PROBABLY ONCE HE STARTS IS IN A BETTER POSITION THAN, YEAH, MAYBE THAT'S IT THEN.

UM, UH, THERE WAS A TRAINING OPTION COMING UP.

OH YES.

A COUPLE OF TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES UP COMING UP THERE TOO.

UH, BUT ONE'S IN NATIONAL CONFERENCE FOR THE NAPC AND THE OTHER ONE, HOWEVER, IS THAT VIRTUAL SUMMER SHORT COURSE.

IT'S, UH, THREE DAYS OR TWO DAYS OF, UM, UH, A BUNCH OF WEBINARS.

UM, AND THEY'RE USUALLY PRETTY INTERESTING.

UH, SO, UH, WHEN I GET THE SCHEDULE, I'LL SEND THAT ALL OUT TO YOU GUYS.

UM, YOU GUYS SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET INTO THAT FOR FREE.

WHEN DOES OUR BUS TO MINNEAPOLIS NEED ? ALRIGHT.

YOU'RE DRIVING .

ANYTHING, ANYTHING FOR THE GOOD OF THE GROUP? IF NOT, YOU ADJOURNED FOR TONIGHT.