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I CALL THE ORDER THE SEPTEMBER 2ND DESIGN REVIEW MEETING OF THE NEW BERN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.THE DESIGN REVIEW MEETING IS USED FOR THE REVIEW OF PROJECTS SUBMITTED FOR CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COAS FOR TRAINING AND FOR INFORMAL DISCUSSION ON MATTERS THAT DON'T REQUIRE FORMAL ACTION BY THE COMMISSION.
SINCE NO FORMAL VOTES ARE TAKEN AT A DESIGN REVIEW MEETING, ALTHOUGH WE WILL TAKE ROLE, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT FOR A QUORUM OF HPC COMMISSIONERS TO BE PRESENT.
MATT, WOULD YOU DO THE ROLE PLEASE? CERTAINLY.
[1. ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA ]
SO ARE THERE ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA? I HAVE NONE.AND THAT IS, UM, WE DO, WE'RE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE OUR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DIRECTOR HERE, JESSICA RU, AND I THINK SHE WANTED TO JUST MENTION ONE THING, UM, THAT'S HAD JUST, HAS JUST COME UP.
UM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS, UH, NOT UNUSUAL TO OUR OFFICE, BUT THIS IS NEW TO THE HPC.
WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH SCAMMERS WHO SCOUR THE INTERNET FOR PHONE NUMBERS AND INTERNET ADDRESSES OF OUR APPLICANTS.
AND SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, WE HAD A HUGE DISRUPTION FOR SEVERAL DAYS WITH ANYONE THAT HAD, UH, BEEN THROUGH THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, GETTING EMAILED FAKE INVOICES THAT LOOK VERY, VERY COMPELLING AND LOOK REAL UNTIL YOU GET TO THE BOTTOM AND IT TELLS YOU TO WIRE TRANSFER THE MONEY.
IF YOU RECEIVE ANY CORRESPONDENCE FROM OUR OFFICE THAT LOOKS STRANGE OR IS IT LOOKS LIKE A BILL, PLEASE GIVE US A CALL.
UM, AND WE'RE HAPPY TO CONFIRM THAT IT IS OR ISN'T.
IT HIGHLY LIKELY IS NOT ANY APPLICANTS THAT GET PUT ON AGENDAS FOR ANY OF OUR BOARDS.
WE DEFINITELY MAKE SURE WE HAVE YOUR MONEY AND YOUR FEE BEFORE WE START PROCESSING YOUR PERMIT.
SO THAT ALONE SHOULD, UM, BE A LITTLE BIT OF A FLAG.
THE NEXT THING IS MAKE SURE THAT THE EMAIL ADDRESS IS COMING FROM WHEN YOU CLICK ON IT ENDS IN NEW BERN.GOV WITH NOTHING AFTER IT.
IF IT ENDS IN NEW BERN.GOV, THAT'S A LEGITIMATE CITY OF NEWBURN EMAIL.
SO, UH, ANY OTHER ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AGENDA? I JUST WANNA ANNOUNCE THAT, UH, WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU IS A BRAND NEW VERSION OF THE AGENDA.
UH, WE HAVE A THIRD ITEM ON THE AGENDA TODAY THAT WE DID NOT HAVE THIS MORNING.
SO, UM, YOU'LL WANT TO REFER TO THAT.
WHAT IS THE, HOW CAN I TELL? THE NEW FROM IT HAS AN ITEM UNDER THREE A HANCOCK CHILDREN HAS A THREE A INSTEAD OF NONE.
IT'S, IF YOU LOOK ON YOUR SCREEN, IT'S RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF IT RIGHT NOW.
[2.A. 524 E. Front St. – Remodel of contributing accessory building in the Tertiary AVC. ]
THANK YOU, UH, MATT.SO ARE WE READY TO GO FOR OUR APPLICATION DESIGN REVIEWS? YES, WE ARE.
UM, THE PURPOSE OF TONIGHT'S DESIGN REVIEW PROCESS IS TO PROVIDE GUIDANCE TO COA APPLICANTS BASED ON NEW BERN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT PRINCIPLES AND STANDARDS, AS WELL AS CITY ORDINANCES AND STATE STATUTES RELATED TO HISTORIC PRESERVATION.
IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE APPLICANT AND FOR THE HPC COMMISSIONERS TO EXCHANGE INFORMATION AND ASK QUESTIONS.
APPLICANTS PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT ANY DISCUSSION OR COMMENTS MADE DURING THE DESIGN REVIEW BETWEEN THE APPLICANT AND THE HPC COMMISSIONERS ARE NON-BINDING AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE OUTCOME OF A FORMAL HEARING ON A COA APPLICATION.
AND COMMISSIONERS, YOU ARE AGAIN REMINDED TO REFRAIN FROM EXPRESSING PERSONAL OPINIONS OR PERSONAL LIFE OR DISLIKES ABOUT THE CONTENTS OF ANY COA APPLICATION.
YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO CLARIFICATION OF THE CONTENT OF THE COA APPLICATION AND HOW THE COA APPLICATION CONTENT RELATES TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT PRINCIPLES AND GUIDELINES, CITY ORDINANCES AND STATE STATUTES WITH NO QUESTIONS.
WITH THAT, UH, MATT, LET'S GO TO OUR FIRST CASE.
SO THIS IS THE APPLICATION FOR THE PROJECT HERE.
UM, WE CAN SEE THE PROPERTY OWNERS, MIKE AND ALICIA ALFORD, UH,
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AND THEIR PROJECT, OOPS, WRONG WAY.UM, DESCRIPTION AND STANDARDS ARE ON THE ADDITIONAL SHEET THAT WE'LL HAVE FOLLOWING THIS ONE.
UM, AND THEY'VE LISTED SOME OF THE MATERIALS.
UH, THEY'VE PROVIDED SITE PLAN PHOTOGRAPHS AND FLOOR PLANS, UH, AND THEY HAVE SIGNED, AND IT IS DATED.
SO THE ADDITIONAL PAGE HERE IS FROM HER ARCHITECT GO ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN.
AND IT'S, UM, THE DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE PROPOSED WORK IS, UH, WRITTEN OUT HERE, BUT ALSO WE SEE AN INTERIOR VIEW OF THE, UH, UH, OF THE PROJECT BUILDING.
UH, AND THEN ALSO, UH, AN ELEVATION VIEW OF THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING SHOWING IN DASH LINES, THE, THE PIECES THAT WILL BE REMOVED.
UM, BUT, UH, DO WANNA SAY, UH, LET'S SEE, WE HAVE HERE, UM, THE BUILDING IS BRICK MASONRY WITH A LOW PITCHED HIP ROOF YOU CAN SEE THERE.
AND IT STORES AND WINDOWS ARE NON-ORIGINAL AND DETERIORATED BEYOND REPAIR.
AND THERE WAS A STRUCTURAL EVALUATION DONE BY SEAN COCHRAN DATED NOVEMBER OF 2025, UH, THAT DOCUMENTS THE CONDITION OF THE WALLS, FLOOR AND ROOF STRUCTURE.
AND WE DID GO THROUGH ALL OF THAT, UH, ABOUT FIVE, SIX MONTHS AGO, UH, WHEN THEY CAME IN FIRST WITH, UH, A GENERAL IDEA OF WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO.
SO, UH, THEN THEY ALSO HAVE NOT ONLY THE DESCRIPTION, BUT THE, UH, LIST OF ALL THE, UH, STANDARDS THAT WOULD APPLY.
AND SO WE'LL START WITH THE DRAWINGS.
MANY OF THESE WERE ALREADY IN THE PREVIOUS, UH, PRESENTATION.
SO THE SITE PLAN, UH, SHOWS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THE, UH, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE IMAGE THERE IS A SQUARE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEEM A LITTLE POINTER GOING AROUND THE SCREEN.
AND THE MAIN HOUSE IS UP IN THE UPPER LEFT ALONG THE STREET.
UH, SO THIS IS AN ACCESSORY BUILDING, AND THEN THERE'S QUITE A LOT MORE LAND ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE END OF THE PROPERTY, UH, ALONG THE, THE RIVER.
THIS IS NOW A ZOOM IN OF THAT PARTICULAR, UH, THE HOUSE AND THE GARAGE, IN CASE WE NEED TO LOOK AT ANYTHING RELATED TO THAT.
UM, WE ALSO PROVIDE, THEN WE'VE PROVIDED THIS AERIAL VIEW, UH, FROM THE GIS SYSTEM, UH, SHOWING, UH, THE OUTLINE OF THE PROPERTY, THE EXISTING HOUSE.
AND THEN THIS SQUARE IS THE PROJECT, UH, STRUCTURE, AND THEN ALSO A ZOOMED IN VIEW OF IT, UH, FROM THE AIR.
UM, AND NOW THIS WAS ALL ALSO INFORMATION WE HAD LAST TIME, BUT WHAT IT DOES SHOW IS THAT IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER, UH, DOCUMENTATION, UH, THE ACTUAL, THE, THE, UM, ACCESSORY BUILDING IS CALLED THE QUARTERS.
AND IT WAS ALSO BUILT 1810 TO 1812 CIRCA AND IS CONSIDERED TO BE A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
SO WHEN WAS THAT, UH, DONE? UM, THAT WAS LAST DONE IN 2003.
UM, THEN WE WENT THROUGH, UH, THE, THE SANBORN MAP HISTORY OF THE, OF THE SITE.
AND WE HAVE IN 19 18 98, UH, THE HOUSE AND THE, UH, ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
UM, AT THAT TIME, UH, IT'S JUST SHOWN AS A BRICK STRUCTURE THAT'S THE RED COLOR, UH, JUST LIKE THE HOUSE.
WHAT IT SHOWS NOW HERE IS THAT, UM, IT'S SHOWN AS A TWO STORY BUILDING, UH, THAT WAS VACANT AT THE TIME, THE TYPE OF ROOFING.
AND THERE WAS SOME, UH, OVERHANG, I GUESS ON THE FRONT EDGE AND, AND SOME WINDOWS ON THE TWO SIDES.
UM, AND, UM, DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH THE SAME WITH THE HOUSE.
THEN IN 1904, THE MAP WAS SLIGHTLY ORIENTED, A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, BUT, UH,
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UH, HERE THE X UH, THROUGH IT DOES NOT REPRESENT THE HIP ROOF.THE X ACTUALLY REPRESENTS THAT IT WAS BEING USED AS A STABLE, STILL SHOWN AS TWO STORIES.
'CAUSE UH, WE'LL SEE, UH, OR WE'LL HEAR AT LEAST THAT THERE WAS A, A SECOND FLOOR BUILT INSIDE, UH, THAT HAS LONG SINCE BEEN REMOVED.
UH, AND, AND I'M ASSUMING THAT DASH LINE MEANS THERE WAS SOME KIND OF AN OVERHANG ON YES.
ON THE PERIPHERAL PERIMETER OF IT, CORRECT? YES.
AND THEN THE 95 AND A HALF WAS THE ADDRESS
THEY DON'T SAY IF IT WAS A DWELL DWELLING.
OH, ACTUALLY THE X MEANS THAT IT WAS A STABLE, SO I DON'T KNOW WHY IT HAS AN ADDRESS.
UH, AND THEN, UH, 1931, UH, AND NINE ALL THE WAY UP TO 1958 WAS A SERIES OF OVERLAY, UH, CUT AND PASTE OVERLAYS.
UM, AND SO IT SEEMS IN 1931, UH, WHICH IS THE UNALTERED BOT LOWER PORTION, UH, THE USE HAS CHANGED FROM STABLE TO ACCESSORY WITH THE A THERE, UH, USUALLY FOR AUTOMOBILES AT THE TIME.
UH, AND THEN, UH, UH, AND SO IN THAT CASE THAT X HAS BEEN REMOVED, IT'S NO LONGER STABLE AND, UH, OTHERWISE UNCHANGED.
SO THEN, UM, WE HAVE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS OMITTED BY THE APPLICANT, AND WE CAN SEE THE HOUSE HERE, THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE ON HERE ON THE LEFT.
UM, AND THEN SOME ADDITIONS IN WHITE, UH, ONE STORY ADDITIONS IN WHITE, AND THEN ALL THE WAY IN THE BACK BEHIND THIS FOUNTAIN.
AND THIS TREE IS THE ACCESSORY BUILDING FROM THIS SIDE.
AND THEN, UH, UH, THERE'S A, UH, ACTUAL ZOOM IN FROM THAT SAME PHOTO, UH, ANOTHER PHOTO WITH A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ANGLE.
UM, THERE YOU CAN'T SEE IT ANYMORE.
AND THEN WHEN YOU GO AROUND TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THEN YOU CAN START TO SEE IT AGAIN.
THIS IS OF COURSE, AT THE END OF THE DRIVEWAY.
AND THEN ONCE YOU GO FARTHER ALONG, UH, THE BUSHES, SO THE, THE NEIGHBORS SMALL TREES OR BUSHES ARE, UM, OBSCURING IT.
AND EVEN WHEN YOU GET A LITTLE FARTHER DOWN THE STREET.
UH, THEN, UH, NOW THIS, THESE ARE SOME MORE PHOTOGRAPHS, UH, PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT.
UM, CLOSEUP OF THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE TO, UH, AS IT IS ESSENTIALLY TODAY.
THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL SHRUBS IN THAT ONE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OR THE SOUTHERN SIDE.
THERE'S AN EXISTING, UH, POND HERE.
UH, AND YOU CAN SEE THOUGH ON THIS ONE, THE, UH, TWO OPENINGS ON THIS SIDE AND QUITE A BIT OF, UM, UH, CHANGES TO THE BRICK, OR AT LEAST THE, THE MACE.
THIS FROM THE INSIDE TO SHOW THAT THE SECOND FLOOR HAS BEEN REMOVED, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THIS DARK LINE COMING ACROSS RIGHT UNDERNEATH THESE TWO FRONT WINDOWS.
AND THEN NOW THIS IS THE BACK FACING THE RIVER TO THE EAST.
SO IT HAD AN UPSTAIRS, UH, DOORWAY AT THAT POINT, AND TWO LOWER WINDOWS, OR STILL HAS THAT.
AND THEN FROM THE INSIDE, YOU CAN SEE THERE WHERE THE, UH, THE, THE BRICK WORK CHANGES COLOR, UH, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE FLOORING FLOOR STRUCTURE WAS, WHERE THAT, UH, AND THEN THE UPPER DOORWAY UP THERE.
AND THEN THE FOURTH SIDE, THE NORTH SIDE, UH, LEFT SIDE FROM THE FRONT, UM, ALL THE, THERE'S BEEN AT LEAST THREE OPENINGS THAT HAVE BEEN CLOSED BRICKED IN, UH, IN THE PAST AND QUITE A FEW, UH, ATTEMPTS AT REPOINTING THE BRICK.
AND THEN THAT IS THAT, THAT SIDE AS WELL FROM THE INSIDE.
SO, UM, SO THAT'S THE SOUTH SIDE AGAIN AND INSIDE AGAIN.
SO THIS IS THE, UH, UH, STRUCTURAL ENGINEER'S REPORT.
AND HE POINTED OUT SOME, UH, SOME DEGRADATION OF THE BRICK
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AND MORTAR JOINTS.UM, A PEST RELATED DAMAGE TO THE ROOF STRUCTURE HERE, THIS ONE SPOT.
UM, AND THEN ALSO A CRACK IN ONE OF THE, UM, BOTTOM CORD MEMBERS OF THE TRUSSES.
AND THEN, UM, EXTERIOR SURFACE, BRICK AND MORTAR DETERIORATION AND DEGRADATION ALREADY POINTED OUT.
AND SO NOW WE HAVE THE, UM, APPLICANT'S PROPOSAL, THE DRAWINGS FOR THAT.
AND THIS IS, UH, THE FRONT PAGE ONE, UH, IT REPRESENTS THE REAR.
WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE.
AND THESE ARE SOME MORE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE.
THIS IS THE SITE PLAN, UH, EXISTING AND SHOWING WHAT'S TO BE REMOVED, FOR EXAMPLE, WE'LL BE REMOVING THAT ENTIRE POND STRUCTURE THERE EXCEPT FOR A LITTLE BIT OF THE WALL.
AND THEN, UH, ALSO SHOWING SOME OF THE, UH, NEW, THE NEW OPENINGS TO BE CREATED IN THIS STRUCTURE.
AND NOW THIS IS THE NEW PLAN, SITE PLAN FOR THE, FOR THE STRUCTURE, UH, TO BE THE MAIN, THE MAIN THING ON THIS VIEW IS THAT WE SEE THERE'S AN ADDITION ON THE NORTHERN SIDE, AND WE'LL SEE THAT IN THE ACTUAL FLOOR PLANS.
SO THESE ARE THE EXISTING PLANS OR THE PLANS OF THE EXISTING, UH, STRUCTURE SHOWING WHAT'S TO BE REMOVED.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE LEFT SIDE, THIS IS THE FIRST FLOOR, UM, THEY ARE PROPOSING TO ADD THE SECOND FLOOR BACK IN.
AND SO, UH, THESE, UH, DOUBLE SWINGING DOORS ARE THE, UH, QUOTE UNQUOTE GARAGE DOORS.
UH, AND THEN, UH, SO THAT ON THIS, UH, AT THE TOP OF THIS IS THE EAST SIDE, FACING THE RIVER, THE BACK OF THE BUILDING.
AND, UH, THE OPENINGS, UH, PROPOSE TO BE CHANGED FROM THESE SMALLER OPENINGS TO THESE LARGER ONES.
AND THEN SAME THING ON THE SOUTH SIDE, ON THE RIGHT HERE, AND YOU MUST BE MISSING THE, OH, NO, THAT'S EXISTING, SORRY.
UM, UH, AND THEN THE SECOND FLOOR, UH, HAS, UH, LAR ENLARGING THE, UH, THE DOOR ON THE BACK
THEN THE NEXT ONE IS NOW THE, UH, THE PROPOSAL PROPOSED FLOOR PLAN.
SO YOU CAN SEE THE ADDITION ON THE LEFT.
UH, THE GAR, THE WIDENED GARAGE DOORS ON THE FRONT HAVE, UM, SLIDING UP THE, THE DOORS WILL SLIDE UP AND OPEN LIKE A GAR LIKE A MODERN GARAGE DOOR.
UH, ON THE RIGHT, THE, UH, POND HAS BECOME A PATIO.
UH, AND THEN ON THE RIGHT HAND DRAWING SHOWS THE SECOND FLOOR WITH THE STAIRS COMING UP FROM BELOW, UM, NEW STAIRS.
'CAUSE WITHOUT A SECOND FLOOR BEFORE THERE WAS NO NEED FOR STAIRS.
UH, AND THEN ON THE SECOND FLOOR IS A, UH, NEW OUTDOOR, UH, DECK ON THE BACK WITH THE, UH, UH, MUCH LARGER WINDOW DOOR, UH, ON THE BACK SIDE.
AND THEN THE OTHER NEW WINDOWS ON THE RIGHT SIDE.
OH, I FORGOT ON THE FIRST FLOOR, THERE'S ALSO NOW SWINGING DOORS ON THE RIGHT SIDE, THE EAST SIDE OUT TO THE PATIO.
IF YOU GO BACK TO THE ONE RIGHT BEFORE THEN ON THE, ON THE EXISTING.
I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU POINTED IT OUT, BUT ON THE EXISTING FIRST FLOOR, IT LOOKS LIKE THE, THAT THOSE EXISTING WINDOWS ARE, ARE BEING ENLARGED SIGNIFICANTLY.
UH, AND IT SHOWS IT ON THE SECOND FLOOR.
ALSO ON THE SECOND FLOOR, THE SOUTHERN WINDOWS ONE IS BEING ENLARGED AND THE OTHER ONE'S BEING CREATED NEW.
ALL RIGHT, SO NOW THESE ARE THE, UH, DRAWINGS OF THE EXISTING ELEVATION, OF THE ELEVATIONS OF THE EXISTING BUILDING.
UH, SO IN THE UPPER LEFT, THAT'S THE FRONT WHICH WE SAW BEFORE.
AND I MENTIONED, TALKED ABOUT BEFORE.
UH, THIS ONE ON THE RIGHT IS THE, UM, THE CURRENT NORTHERN SIDE, UH, WHERE ALL THE OPENINGS HAVE BEEN BRICKED IN.
UH, THIS, THESE ELEVATIONS ALSO SHOW WHAT'S TO BE REMOVED.
SO THEY DO SHOW REMOVING, UH, THIS PORTION OF THE LOWER RIGHT, UM, SECTION TO BE REMOVED.
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'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE ADDITION GOES.UH, AND THEN ON THE BACK, ON THE BACKSIDE IS ALL THE WAY ON THE RIGHT.
ALL THE WAY BOTTOM RIGHT IS THE BACKSIDE.
UH, AND SO YOU SEE THE ORIGINAL LARGE DOOR, IT WILL NOW BE WIDENED, UH, TO THAT WIDTH, BUT WILL BE, UH, THE SILL OR THE THRESHOLD WILL BE HIGHER, AND THEN THE LOWER WINDOWS WILL BE ENLARGED AS WELL.
THE, THEN ON THE, UH, WEST, UH, WAIT A MINUTE, SOUTH SIDE SOUTH, THIS IS THE SOUTH SIDE, UM, WHERE THE POND IS THE POND, ALL THE, EVERYTHING AROUND THE POND WILL BE REMOVED EXCEPT FOR A PORTION OF THE, UH, WALL ON THE LEFT HERE.
AND THEN WE HAVE THE ENLARGEMENT OF THE UPPER WINDOW, THE NEW UPPER WINDOW, AND THEN THE ENLARGEMENT OF, OF THE LOWER RIGHT WINDOW.
AND, UH, UH, ENLARGING WHAT WAS HAD PREVIOUSLY APPARENTLY BEEN A WINDOW.
ALRIGHT, SO THESE ARE NOW THE PROPOSED ELEVATIONS.
YOU HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THE ROOF YET.
MATT, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE ROOF WITH THIS AS WELL? YEAH.
SO NOW ON THIS ONE, UM, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE ROOF, DO YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO THE PREVIOUS ONE OR JUST A THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE.
SO THERE'S THE, UH, FROM ALL FOUR SIDES, SINCE IT'S A HIP ROOF, UM, THE ROOF IS THE SAME, UH, WITH THIS, UH, FOUR AND 12 PITCH.
UM, IN THIS CASE NOW THE ENTIRE ROOF HAS BEEN REMOVED AND IT'S NOW A 10 AND 12 PITCH.
UH, AND THAT INCLUDES THE DORMER, I BELIEVE, ALTHOUGH, UM, IT DOESN'T REALLY SAY, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS ABOUT THE SAME.
AND THEN, UM, UH, SO LET'S START WITH THE FRONT.
UH, THE FRONT, THOSE TWO SWINGING, UH, DOORS THAT ARE THE GARAGE DOORS, UM, HAVE BEEN REPLACED BY, UH, A GLASS AND METAL, UH, GARAGE DOORS THAT THEN WOULD SWING UP, UH, UNDER THE CEILING.
UH, THE FRONT WINDOWS, UH, WILL BE REPLACED WITH NEW METAL WINDOWS, WITH 3D GRILLS AND, UH, NEW PAINTED WOOD SHUTTERS TO MATCH EXISTING WITH THE, UH, OPERABLE HARDWARE.
UM, THEY'VE ALSO, UH, DISCOVERED THAT THEY, IN ORDER TO USE THE SECOND FLOOR, UM, APPROPRIATELY, THEY WOULD NEED TO ADD A SOLDIER COURSE, UH, TO THE TOP IN ORDER TO GET THE HEADROOM, UH, FOR THE CEILING.
AND THEN ON THE LEFT WE SEE THE ADDITION, WHICH HAS, UH, ITS OWN ENTRYWAY DOOR ON THIS SIDE, UH, APPEARS TO BE RECESSED, UH, 'CAUSE OF THE SHADOW LINE.
UH, AND THEN, UM, ON THE RIGHT WE HAVE, UH, THE EXISTING BRICK WALL THAT'S RETAIN, THAT IS MA RETAINED FROM, UH, AROUND THE, UH, POND.
ONE FIRST, UH, SAME THING HAPPENS ON THE BACK.
UM, THOSE TWO, UH, WINDOWS AT THE BOTTOM HAVE BEEN ENLARGED ENOUGH TO BECOME GARAGE DOORS, GLASS AND STEEL GARAGE DOORS.
UM, AND, UM, THEN THE UPSTAIRS, THE, THAT MIDDLE DOOR IS, I GUESS, BRICKED OVER, I'M SORRY, THIS IS THE SIDE, THIS IS NOT MAC.
THIS IS THE SIDE THAT WAS THE POND FACING THE POND.
HERE WE HAVE THE, UH, DECK OUT THE RIGHT SIDE OUT ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE.
UH, SO THOSE, UH, ON THE RIGHT WAS PREVIOUSLY A WINDOW THAT'S BEEN, UH, ENLARGED.
AND THEN ON THE LEFT WAS NOT A WINDOW BRAND NEW OPENING.
UH, SO, UH, THEN THE GABLE END HERE IS, UM, COVERED WITH, UM, THE SHINGLE PATTERN OF WHAT IS THAT MATERIAL, NEW WOOD SHINGLES, UH, AND THEN THE, UH, LET'S SEE WHAT ELSE WE HAVE HERE.
THEN OF COURSE WE HAVE THIS, UH, LARGE TRIANGULAR WINDOW, UH, IN THAT GABLE END.
OKAY, LET'S GO TO THE BACK NOW.
THE BACK ALSO HAS THE TWO LARGE GARAGE DOOR, UH, GLASS AND STEEL GARAGE DOORS.
UM, THE RAILING ABOVE THAT IS A METAL RAILING WITH, UH, UH, METAL PICKETS.
AND THEN, UH, UH, THE, UH, SINGLE DOOR THAT WAS THERE BEFORE HAS NOW BEEN WIDENED AND, UH, ENLARGED EN HEIGHT AND TOPPED WITH A TRIANGLE,
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UH, WITH A DORMER, UH, ROOF OVER THAT STRUCTURE.UM, AND THERE'S ALSO TWO FLANKING EXTERIOR LIGHTS.
THE, UH, ADDITION ON THE SIDE HAS, UH, NOW, UH, GLASS AND STEEL DOORS OUT THE BACK, AS WELL AS SOME, UH, TRANSOM, ESSENTIALLY TRANSOM, UH, WINDOWS ABOVE IT WITH THIS BEING ALL BEING A SHED ROOF.
AND WE HAVE SOME MORE WOOD SIDING ON THIS SIDE.
THEN THE FOURTH SIDE IS THE SIDE FACING NORTH, UH, THAT WHERE THE NEW, UH, ADDITION'S BEEN CREATED.
AND, UH, THIS IS ALLWOOD SHINGLE SIDING, A SQUARE WINDOW METAL WITH, UH, THE 3D GRILLS AND, UH, STANDING SEAM METAL ROOFING THAT'S ACTUALLY, UH, UH, ALL THE WAY AROUND ON THE UPPER ROOF AS WELL AS THE SHED ROOF.
AND THEN THE GABLE HAS THE SHINGLES WITH THIS OCTAGONAL, UH, LOOKS LIKE IT'S A, UH, A VENT OR, UH, BUT I'M NOT SURE.
UH, LET'S SEE, THAT'S KIND OF IT.
SO, UH, THEY'VE PROVIDED US SOME, UH, NEW, UH, RENDERINGS OF THIS, UH, I THINK YESTERDAY, TODAY.
UH, AND SO NOW WE SEE THIS ON THE UPPER LEFT IS THE FRONT, UH, AND THEY'VE MAINTAINED THE, UH, THE EXISTING LENTILS ACROSS THE DOORWAYS.
UM, AND YOU CAN BASICALLY SEE WHAT I'VE ALREADY DESCRIBED BEFORE.
UH, THEY HAVE SOME TWO EXTERIOR LIGHTS HERE THAT I DIDN'T MENTION BEFORE.
THEN LET'S GO DOWN TO THE BOTTOM LEFT.
UH, THIS IS NOW THE SIDE WHERE THE POND WAS, AND THERE'S NO, NO, THAT'S RIVERSIDE.
THAT IS NOW THE BAT
THIS IS NOW THE BAT, UH, FACING THE RIVER AND HAS THE, UH, DECK ABOVE IT.
AND SO WE SEE THE TWO GARAGE DOORS, THE UPPER WINDOW AND, UH, TRIANGULAR WINDOW ABOVE THAT, UH, EXTERIOR LIGHTING FIXTURES.
UM, AND THE ADDITION ON THE SIDE, YOU CAN SEE THE WINDOWS ON THE END OF THAT, FACING THE RIVER.
UH, THIS ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT NOW IS FINALLY THE FINALLY IS, UH, THE ONE THAT'S FACING WHERE THE POND WAS.
UH, IT DOESN'T SHOW THE PATIO, UM, BUT, UH, THESE ARE THE TWO WINDOWS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER AND THE TWO ABOVE, AND THEN THE TRIANGULAR ONE ABOVE THAT.
AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THE REAR DECK OUT TO THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OVER HERE.
AND LASTLY, THE, UH, OBLIQUE ANGLE HERE, UH, SHOWING BOTH THE BACK AND THE NORTH SIDE ADDITION ON HERE.
THEN WE ALSO HAVE A SET OF, UH, RENDERINGS THAT SHOW NIGHTTIME VIEWS THAT SHOW THE, UM, EXTERIOR LIGHTING AT NIGHT.
SO HERE WE HAVE SOME, UM, SOFFIT LIGHTS OR EVE LIGHTS IN IN THE EAVE.
AND THEN THOSE, UH, OTHER LIGHTS I MENTIONED ABOVE THE GARAGE DOORS, LOWER LEFT, THIS IS THE REAR, GOT THAT RIGHT THIS TIME.
UH, AND WE CAN SEE THE EXTERIOR LIGHTS AND SOME UPLIGHTING ON THIS ONE.
UH, AND THEN ON THE LOWER RIGHT WE HAVE DOWNLIGHTS AND UPLIGHTS.
UH, AND THEN ON THE, ON THE NORTH SIDE WITH THE ADDITION, UH, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DARK, BUT, UH, TO SEE, UH, BUT THERE'S SOME UPLIGHTS AT THE BOTTOM OR LANDSCAPING LIGHTS, AND THEN SOME UPLIGHTS ABOVE THE, UH, THE SHED ROOF.
AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THAT OCTAGONAL IS A WINDOW, NOT A VENT.
OR AT LEAST THAT'S THE WAY IT'S REPRESENTED.
THEY DO HAVE A DISCLAIMER OVER HERE ON BOTH THE SETS OF RENDERINGS THAT NOT EVERYTHING IN THE BACKGROUND IS GOING TO BE ENTIRELY CORRECT.
UH, AND THE, UH, THE DRAWINGS, UH, DICTATE WHAT'S ACTUALLY TRUE.
UM, UH, THAT'S REALLY THE END OF IT.
THERE WAS ONE THING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME, MATT, BEFORE WE START TALKING ABOUT THIS, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT FLOODPLAIN REQUIREMENTS.
DO YOU, CAN YOU JUST TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THE REQUIREMENTS BEING THIS BEING WHERE IT IS SO CLOSE TO THE RIVER, WHAT SOME OF THE RESTRICTIONS ARE? YES.
SO, UM, SO THERE'S A BASE FLOOD ELEVATION, UM, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT IT IS, BUT, UH, UH, TWO FEET ABOVE
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THAT, THE, UM, WE'RE, UH, YOU CAN'T BUILD OR ELEVATE A BUILDING OR BUILD A BUILDING WITH ITS FIRST FLOOR ABOVE THAT, UM, FREEBOARD HEIGHT.THIS IS AN EXISTING BUILDING, HOWEVER MM-HMM
UH, AND SO THAT DOESN'T NEED TO CHANGE, BUT THEY CANNOT USE THE FIRST FLOOR FOR ANYTHING EXCEPT PARKING OR STORAGE OR ACCESS TO THE SECOND FLOOR.
SO THREE THINGS ARE ALLOWED IN, UH, A SPACE, AN INTERIOR SPACE THAT, UH, IS IN THE FLOODPLAIN.
AND THERE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ANY REQUIREMENTS FOR TRANSPORT OF WATER THROUGH THAT SPACE.
SO, UM, UH, YOU DO IN AN EXISTING HISTORICAL, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE FLOOD VENTS, UM, WHICH ARE TO BE INSTALLED ONE FOOT ABOVE THE GROUND.
AND THERE'S A CALCULATION FOR HOW BIG, HOW MANY SQUARE INCHES OF FLOOD VENTING YOU NEED.
UM, SO YES, I'M SORRY, THERE IS THAT, UM, SINCE THIS IS NOT IN THE WAVE ACTION AREA, THEY DON'T HAVE ISSUES WITH, UM, WITH, WITH THAT WHAT BREAK? YEAH.
WITH BREAKAWAY WALLS LIKE WE DID AT THE, UH, THE LAST ONE,
I JUST WANNA GET EVERYBODY, MAKE SURE EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE BEFORE WE START TALKING ABOUT IT.
THANK YOU FOR THAT VERY THOROUGH, UM, REPORT.
SO, UH, COMMISSIONERS, UM, I THINK THE FIRST THING THAT, THAT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO DO IS THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, ABOUT THIS BEING A CONTRIBUTING, CONTRIBUTING OR NOT CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
I JUST WANT TO REVISIT THAT AND MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE WITH THAT.
UM, I THINK AT THE TIME WE HAD DETERMINED THAT THIS WAS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE AND IS EVERYBODY STILL OKAY WITH THAT? UM, FOR A, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, AND I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL STILL OF THE SAME MIND.
WELL, THIS IS IN THE, UH, NATIONAL REGISTERED INVENTORY IS CONTRIBUTED.
SO THERE'S A CHECK, UH, IN SAND BECK'S BOOK, HISTORIC ARCHITECTURE IN NEW ME AND CRAVEN COUNTY.
THERE'S ABOUT A TWO PAGE WRITE UP ON THE SMALLWOOD PROPERTY AND PETER, UH, DEDICATED, UH, A FAIRLY EXTENSIVE PARAGRAPH ON, UM, ON THIS ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
AND THOSE ARE THE, THE TWO THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT.
THE FIRST THAT, YOU KNOW, RIGHT OFF THE BAT IS IT LISTED IN THE, AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE AND THE INVENTORY.
AND SECONDLY, WHAT DOES PETER SAY ABOUT IT? SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY WAY IN MUCH WIGGLE ROOM HERE AS TO WHETHER THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
AND I THINK TOO, IF YOU LOOK BACK AT, AT THE, UH, AT THE MAPS THAT THE SANBORN MAPS, CLEARLY IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS BESIDES WHAT THE INVENTORY SAYS AND, AND WHAT THE, UH, SANDBOX SAYS DO.
SO I'M SAYING, I'M THINKING, TIM, THAT YOU'RE, UM, BELIEVING THIS IS DEFINITELY A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
AND WE'RE ALL GOOD WITH THAT? YES.
BECAUSE, UM, AS YOU KNOW, BEING ATTRIBUTED STRUCTURE THROWS A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT SPIN ON WHAT'S ALLOWED, UM, ON THE STRUCTURE.
UM, SO WITH THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER'S QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS? UM, I, I DO WANNA COMMENTS GO CLARIFY.
IT'S ALSO AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
IT IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, A CONTRIBUTING ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
AND I WOULD SUGGEST IT'S IN THE TERTIARY A VC AS WELL.
FIRST, THE FIRST THING IS, I'M LOOKING AT THE PHOTOS ON PAGE 46, 47 OF THE PDF THAT WE WERE GIVEN.
AND LOOKING AT THESE, MY FIRST QUESTION IS, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE? UH, WE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALWAYS SUPPORTIVE, WE'RE ALWAYS SUPPORTIVE OF ADAPTIVE REUSE.
UH, THAT FITS WITHIN, YOU KNOW, THE PRESERVATION FRAMEWORK THAT, UH, WE OPERATE FROM, WHICH HAPPENS TO BE THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR TREATMENT OF HISTORIC PROPERTIES, UH, IN PARTICULAR STANDARDS FOR PRESERVATION AND, UH, REHABILITATION.
UH, I MEAN THE, THE DEFINING, DEFINING THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES OF THE STRUCTURE
[00:35:01]
BASED ON, BASED ON THESE RENDERINGS, I DON'T SEE WHERE ANY OF THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES ARE LEFT.PETER SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS THE LOW PITCH HIP ROOF AND THE ROOF, THE WALLS, WINDOWS AND DOORS AND PORCHES ARE THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES THAT WE TYPICALLY START WITH.
SO RIGHT OFF THE BAT, COMPLETELY CHANGING THE ROOF FORM.
WE'VE LO WE'VE LOST THAT CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE.
AND I DON'T, SOME SOMEWHERE IN THIS, THIS PDF, THERE'S A REFERENCE TO, WELL, IT'S, YOU KNOW, NOT IN A PRIMARY A VC, UH, SO THE ROOF COULD BE MODIFIED.
WELL, I THINK WE ALL NEED TO THINK, HAVE A GOOD HARD, THINK ABOUT THE INTENT OF, UH, GUIDELINE 4.5 0.2, WHICH DOES SAY, DON'T CHANGE THE ROOF LINE IN THE PRIMARY A, B, C.
BUT THIS HAS, I THINK THIS HAS MORE TO DO.
THE INTENT AS STATED, HAS MORE TO DO WITH A PRIMARY STREET FACING STRUCTURE.
WHAT WE HAVE HERE WITH THIS CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, YES, IT'S, THEY AGREED IT'S NOT ON THE STREET, BUT I THINK YOU COULD COUNT ON ONE HAND THE NUMBER OF THESE 19TH CENTURY ACCESSORY STRUCTURES THAT EVEN EXIST.
SO THIS IS, I I WOULD SAY THAT THIS STRUCTURE IS IN A CATEGORY BY ITSELF.
UH, YES, WE, WE WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH THE, WITH THE APPLICANT TO GET TO, UH, AN ADAPTIVE REUSE, AN ACCEPTABLE ADAPTIVE REUSE.
UH, I DON'T SEE HOW TO GET THERE WITH THIS.
SO ORIGINALLY THIS WAS A BARN FOR HORSES AND THE TOP PART WAS FOR HAY.
AND SO IT WASN'T FOR INHABITATION, IT'S FOR ANYTHING INHABITING AND EVERYTHING.
UM, IF WE ARE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, TO, TO MOVE FORWARD WITH IT AND, AND MAINTAIN THAT, THAT CHARACTER OF IT, I MEAN, THERE IS GONNA HAVE TO BE SOME MODIFICATIONS IF THEY WANT TO USE IT FOR, FOR, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PURPOSES.
BUT IT WAS BUILT PRIMARILY IN THE BEGINNING FOR, AS FOR, FOR HAY STORAGE OR FEED STORAGE AT THAT LEVEL.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT ADAPTIVE REUSE IS ABOUT.
ONE OF THE FIRST QUESTIONS, ONE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS PRESERVE, YOU KNOW, CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES, POTENTIAL CRAFTSMANSHIP.
UH, I WAS IN THE STRUCTURE A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, UH, WHEN THE PREVIOUS OWNER, UH, WAS ABOUT TO, ABOUT TO MOVE OUT.
UH, I, I WENT IN THIS STRUCTURE, I DON'T, AND IT WAS, IT WAS IN THE EVENING, SO I DIDN'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF LIGHT.
I, I GUESS THE FIRST QUESTION I WOULD ASK IS, AS FAR AS THE EXISTING ROOF STRUCTURE IS CONCERNED, IN THINKING IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, CRAFTSMANSHIP, IS THIS A MORTIS 10 AND CONSTRUCTION OF THE ROOF? I DON'T KNOW.
SO CAN I, YOUR HONOR? OF COURSE, PLEASE.
SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
I'M A ALFORD AND WE, MY HUSBAND MIKE AND I BOUGHT THE HOUSE, UM, I GUESS TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO.
AND SO WHEN I WAS HERE BEFORE WE TALKED, WHAT I HAD ENVISIONED ORIGINALLY IS THAT WE, WE WOULD SOMEHOW LIFT THE HIP ROOF.
BUT WHEN WE STARTED PLAYING AROUND WITH RENDERINGS OF THAT, EITHER IT WAS GONNA HAVE THIS AWKWARD LIKE BRICK STRUCTURE AND THEN SOME WEIRD, LIKE, WE JUST COULDN'T QUITE FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT WORK.
SORRY, I'M LOOKING AT MY NOTES.
'CAUSE SO FROM THE, WHERE THE SECOND FLOOR WAS TO THE, TO WHERE THE ROOF LINE COMES IS ONLY SIX AND A HALF FEET.
SO YOU REALLY CAN'T DO MUCH MORE THAN STORE HAY OR BUCKET.
LIKE YOU CAN'T REALLY WALK AROUND UP THERE.
AND THEN, BECAUSE IT'S IN A FLOODPLAIN, WE WANTED TO PUT IN THE GARAGE DOOR.
SO, YOU KNOW, HEAVEN FORBID ANOTHER FLORENCE KNOCK ON WOOD HAPPENS, YOU CAN JUST LIFT THE GARAGE DOORS AND HOPEFULLY THE WATER WOULD GO THROUGH.
SO IT'S JUST, I MEAN, WE, WE TOO WANT TO PRESERVE IT.
UM, IT'S JUST TRICKY BECAUSE IT'S NOT A BARN, IT, IT'S IN A, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST WE'RE DEALING WITH DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES.
UM, NOW WE, I LIKE TO THINK OF, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A BARN AND THEN IT WAS A GARAGE, AND NOW WHAT'S IT GONNA BE IN ITS NEXT LIFE? UM, I THINK THAT'S THE BEST THING WE CAN DO IS TO FIND A NEW USE FOR IT.
BECAUSE OTHERWISE, I MEAN, YOU PROBABLY NOTICE WHEN YOU'RE IN IT, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT IN GREAT SHAPE.
UM, IT'S, IT'S NOT GONNA FALL DOWN HOPEFULLY IN MY LIFETIME.
BUT IT'S, IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T DO SOMETHING TO IT, IT'S SOMEBODY'S GONNA BE BACK HERE FOR ANOTHER TYPE OF APPLICATION.
[00:40:01]
AND I DON'T THINK WE WANNA BE IN THAT SITUATION EITHER.UM, AND I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
UM, IT IS IN THE REAR, UH, YOU KNOW, THE TERTIARY A, B, C.
UM, I DO THINK THAT WE CAN PRESERVE THE BRICK WORK IN A WAY THAT HONORS THE PAST, UM, THE ROOF LINE.
IF, IF WE WANT IT TO BE A USABLE STORAGE SPACE ON THE SECOND FLOOR, I, I THINK IT'S, WE'RE GONNA, THE ROOF LINE IS GONNA HAVE TO CHANGE, UM, TO REFLECT THAT THAT'S ON THE PRIMARY HOUSE.
I THINK YOU'RE RESERVING IT BY HAVING A NEW USAGE FOR IT.
AND OTHERWISE IT'S JUST A STORAGE AREA WHICH IS PERCEIVABLY WET SOMETIME 'CAUSE IT'S CLOSE TO THE WATER AND IT'S, I I THINK YOU'LL GIVE YOU A NEW LIFE.
AND I THINK THAT'S PRESERVATION.
YOU'RE KEEPING THE BRICK FORMAT, UH, WHETHER IT'S A HIP ROOF OR PEAK ROOF.
UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM THE INTEGRITY OF THIS SPACE.
I SPENT SOME TIME LOOKING AT BECK TWO AND PEOPLE MAY KNOW OR MAY NOT KNOW THE ATMORE OLIVER HOUSE WAS ACTUALLY A ONE AND A HALF STORY HOUSE.
SO OBVIOUSLY THEY CHANGED THAT.
IT WAS BUILT IN 1806, THE THIRD STORY AND ALL THE ADDITIONS WERE PROBABLY 1834.
THE REM HOUSE, WHICH IS AT THE CORNER OF GEORGE AND BROAD, THAT WAS ORIGINALLY.
AND THERE, THIS PICTURE IS IN SANDECK, WAS ORIGINALLY A VERY SQUARE FORM HOUSE WITH A LOW PITCH ROOF.
IT'S NOW GOT IN 19, THAT WAS IN 1860.
THEY ADDED A DECK ON A HIGH HIP ROOF, PUT 'EM IN A DORMERS, RAISED CHIMNEY STACKS AND ADDED A IRON ROOFTOP BALLS, STADE.
SO THIRD ONE IS THE STANLEY ALLEN HOUSE, 4 0 5 JOHNSON STREET BUILT 1810.
IT ALSO HAS AN OLD PICTURE AND A NEW PICTURE THAT WAS ENLARGED.
THEY ADDED VERY LARGE GABLE DORMERS, VERY MUCH LIKE WHAT'S ON THE BACK HERE TO THE FRONT OF THAT HOUSE.
AND SO I THINK HERE YOU'RE DEALING WITH A NEED TO TRY TO ADAPT, USE, ADAPT, USE THE NEW, THE, EXCUSE ME, THE OLD STRUCTURE ADAPTIVELY.
BUT HAVING TO DEAL WITH NEW REQUIREMENTS.
UH, FLOOD ZONES WEREN'T AN ISSUE BACK THEN, BUT PEOPLE DID ADAPT.
AND IF YOU LOOK THROUGHOUT SANDECK, THE TERM MODERNIZE IS USED EXTENSIVELY.
AND AS I UNDERSTAND OUR DEFINITIONS OF ADDITIONS, THE ROOF IS A TERTIARY AREA, MAY BE SECONDARY, BUT EITHER WAY FOR AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, FOR ANY STRUCTURE, FOR AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
AND THIS IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, WHICH I THINK LOWERS THE BAR OF WHAT WE'RE CONSIDERING.
IT'S NOT THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, IT'S NOT VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, BUT IT'S ALSO ONE OF THREE IN THE FIRST WARD.
AND THE OTHER TWO WOULD BE HASLIN HOUSE AND THE PALACE STATE.
SO YOU HAVE A UNIQUE STRUCTURE HERE.
THIS IS NOT SIMPLY AN AUTO HOUSE.
YES, IT HAS BEEN RENEGOTIATED OVER THE CENTURIES, BUT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.
BUT HASLIN WAS, WAS BRICK BY BRICK TORN APART AND REBUILT.
SO, SO, UM, ON ALONG THOSE LINES, THE, YOU KNOW, TRYING THE ADAPTIVE REUSE, WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS ON IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE ROOF SPEAKING? WHAT ABOUT THE WINDOW PLACEMENTS? WHAT ABOUT BRICKING UP THE EXISTING WINDOWS, PUTTING NEW ONES IN OF DIFFERENT SIZE, DIFFERENT LOCATIONS? WELL, WE, WE CONTROL WINDOW LOCATION.
YOU CAN'T ADD NEW WINDOWS, WINDOW LOCATIONS.
BUT WE DON'T, WE'RE SILENT ON SAYING, CAN I MAKE MY WINDOW BIGGER? AND VERY OFTEN WE ALLOW IT.
'CAUSE 3, 2, 4, 3 0.2 0.4 SAYS REBUILD MISSING OR INCENTIVELY ALTERED DESIGN COMPONENTS BASED ON DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION.
AND, AND I'M NOT, WOULD YOU THINK THAT WHAT'S PRESENTED IS MEETS THAT STANDARD? I GUESS I, I'M JUST PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK MY OVERRIDING THOUGHT IS IT'S AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
WELL, AND WE DID TRY TO LEAVE THE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU CAN SEE FROM THE STREET.
'CAUSE YOU REALLY CAN'T SEE THE OTHER THREE SIDES.
EVEN IF YOU'RE ON A BOAT, YOU REALLY CAN'T SEE THE BACK.
DOWN THE SIDE OF THE, OF THE DESK.
WELL, IT'S A WATERFRONT PROP, UM, STRUCTURE.
AND MOST WATERFRONT STRUCTURES, WHEN THEY READ, ADAPTED WANT TO TAKE IN VIEWS.
SO I CAN SEE WHY THEY HAVE MORE WINDOWS, MORE LIGHT.
[00:45:01]
IT'S REALLY CREATING A BETTER USE FOR THE STRUCTURE AND BRINGING MUCH MORE VALUE TO THE PROPERTY.UM, IT'S AN ASSET TO THE PROPERTY.
UM, I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S IN FITTING WITH THE NAIL.
SO WHY NOT JUST DEMOLISH THE WHOLE THING AND START OVER? I MEAN, SHE'S NOT DEMOLISHING IT, SHE'S PRESERVING IT.
NO, I'M SAYING WHY JUST DEMOLISH THE WHOLE THING AND START OVER BECAUSE, WELL, YOU CAN'T, CAN'T, BUT GO AHEAD LEFT HERE.
BUT YOU CAN'T DO THAT NOW BECAUSE OF THE FLOODPLAIN.
YOU CAN'T, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS MEAN, YOU HAVE TO BUILD SOMETHING WITH STILTS, WHICH WOULD LOOK REALLY OUT PLACE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME ACROSS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF I READ IT HERE OR JUST IMAGINED IT OR WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME, WAS LOOKING AT SOME OF THE RAFTERS YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT, WHETHER THOSE, HOW THEY WERE, HOW THEY WERE USED, HOW WHAT THEY, WHAT THEY, THE AGE OF THEM, HOW THEY USED FOR CONNECTING.
AND THERE WAS SOMETHING I SAW OR READ THAT THERE WAS GONNA BE SOME REUSE OF THOSE RAFTERS OR THOSE TRUSSES.
DID I MAKE THAT UP OR WAS THAT SOMETHING? NO, I WOULD LOVE TO.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S IN WRITING, BUT I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT.
'CAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL LIKE PEG AND I DUNNO, WHICH YOU CALL IT.
IT'S ON THE ELEVATION, BUT WHAT'S ON THE ELEVATION THAT, UH, THERE'S A NOTE TO REUSE THE RAFTERS, BUT WELL, MAYBE THAT'S WHERE I SAW IT.
THERE'S ALSO, I THINK IN THE, UM, WHEN, WHEN WE HAD THE PERSON COME EVALUATE THAT HE TOOK SOME PICTURES AND THAT YOU CAN SEE LIKE UP IN THE RAFTERS YOU CAN SORT OF SEE HOW IT'S PUT TOGETHER.
SO THAT MAY, YOU MAY SEE, ALTHOUGH, ALTHOUGH CURRENTLY IT'S A HIP ROOF, SO SOME OF THE, I MEAN, YOU'RE NOT OBVIOUSLY GONNA BE ABLE TO USE THEM AS IS.
BUT AT ONE POINT WE HAD TALKED, YOU HAD TALKED I THINK ABOUT JUST TAKING THE, THE STRUCTURE BEAMS AND ALL AND JUST MOVING 'EM UP A COUPLE OF FEET STRUCTURAL.
SO I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU WOULD REUSE THOSE.
ALTHOUGH THE, THE CONCEPT OF LOSING THOSE STRUCTURES IS, IS NOT GREAT.
WELL I THINK WE WOULD, EVEN IF IT WAS NOT STRUCTURALLY HOLDING THE BUILDING UP, WE WOULD MAKE THE INTERIOR LOOK LIKE THEY WERE PART OF THE, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THEY, WE WOULD USE 'EM COSMETICALLY TO LOOK LIKE THEY WERE SERVING THE US AS INTERIOR BEAMS. EXACTLY.
SO, UM, DOWN THE SIDE OF THE D ARE YOU GUYS OKAY WITH THE REPLACEMENT OF WHAT WAS CLEARLY FUNCTIONAL SHUTTERED WINDOWS, UM, AROUND WITH GLASS, METAL AND GLASS GARAGE DOORS THAT ARE OBVIOUSLY MANY SIZE LARGER THAN THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS FOR SURE.
CAN YOU, COULD THEY, UM, ARE THE, ARE THE GARAGE DOORS WOODEN, RIGHT? YES.
AND ARE, ARE YOU MAKE YOU GOING A BIGGER DOORWAY THERE? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL BE BIGGER, BUT YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW THEY OPEN LIKE THIS OR CARRIAGE DOORS.
COULD YOU KEEP THEM AND ADD GLASS IN FRONT OR BEHIND THE GARAGE DOOR STRUCTURE METAL? I, I DON'T KNOW.
I'D HAVE TO ASK AN ARCHITECTURE OR ENGINEER OR SOMETHING.
WHAT'S YOUR, I I DIDN'T FOLLOW THAT BECAUSE I THOUGHT YOU WANTED TO KEEP SOME SEGMENT OF THE ORIGINAL.
I THOUGHT IF YOU, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE DOORS, GARAGE DOORS WERE, YOU OPEN 'EM UP AND THERE THAT GLASS PASSADE STRUCTURE.
RIGHT? CAN YOU MOVE UP TO, TO THE, TO THE SHOWING WHAT THAT, WHAT WAS LOOKING LIKE ON THE RENDERING? ON THE RENDERING RIGHT THERE? NO, RIGHT THERE.
OH, THE GARAGE DOORS ARE WELL UP.
WELL I GUESS WE COULD, YOU KNOW HOW THEY MAKE GARAGE DOORS, LIKE OTHER THAN HAVING GLASS, WE COULD USE GARAGE DOORS THAT WERE ON THE FRONT, AT LEAST THAT WERE WOODEN.
YOU KNOW HOW THEY LOOK LIKE THE OLD IT LOOKED, THEY LOOKED LIKE CARRIAGE.
THEY LOOKED LIKE THE OLD CARRIAGE DOORS, BUT THEY, THEY STILL ROLL UP.
RIGHT? SO, UM, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE THAT ON, ON THE DESIGN, YOU HAVE GARAGE DOORS ON THE, ON THE EAST SIDE WHERE THE CURRENT GARAGE DOORS ARE, AND THEN YOU HAVE GARAGE DOORS ON THE RIVERSIDE AND THEN YOU HAVE GARAGE DOORS ON THE, ON THE SOUTH SIDE AS WELL.
I THINK THOSE ARE ACTUALLY THE, THEY'RE ACCORDION DOORS.
YOU KNOW HOW THE ONES, 'CAUSE I THINK IN, ON THE INSIDE YOU CAN'T HAVE ALL THE TRACKS CRISSCROSSING.
SO I THINK THEY'RE THE DOORS THAT, WAIT, JUST GO BACK BACK A SECOND.
THAT MEANT I, I THINK I I READ GARAGE DOORS ON THAT LAST ONE.
YEAH, THEY'RE SHOWN US SWINGING DOORS HERE ON THE PLAN, BUT THERE'S ONLY THREE SEGMENTS.
SO UNLESS THE GLASS IS MEETING GLASS, LIKE OUR FRONT DOORS DOWN FRONT,
DIDN'T WHAT, WHAT'S THAT LITTLE CAPTION UNDERNEATH THERE? SAY? IT SAYS GARAGE NEW PAINTED METAL AND GLASS GARAGE DOORS.
SO THE PLAN AND THE ELEVATION DON'T MATCH.
BUT SHE PROBABLY DOES MAKE A GOOD POINT ABOUT THE TRACKS CROSSING EACH OTHER.
[00:50:01]
SO THEY WON'T LOOK LIKE THIS LIKELY AND THEY EACH OTHER.SO YOU HAD, SOMEONE HAD SAID WOOD, I, I SEE METAL ON ALL OF THIS.
I THOUGHT THERE WERE OTHER, WAS A WOOD.
NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE THESE, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT GIVEN THE VERY LIMITED USE OF THE FIRST FLOOR, BECAUSE IT'S IN THE FLOOD PLAIN, UM, THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF DAMAGE BEING DONE TO THE HISTORIC BRICKWORK, WHICH DOES NOT SEEM TO SERVE ANY PURPOSE TO ME.
AND I, I THINK IT'S A SHAME TO TEAR UP THE EARLY BRICKWORK FOR SOMETHING THAT'S ESSENTIALLY STORAGE.
IT HASN'T IT BEEN STORAGE? ITS WHOLE LIFE.
I THINK HIS, HIS POINT IS TO HAVE ALL OF THESE NEW DOORS CUT IN GLASS DOORS, UM, ON ALL THREE SIDES.
UM, YOU'RE TAKING THE HISTORIC BRICK FABRIC AND IT'LL, WITH STORAGE THEN IT'S GONNA BE STORAGE NOW OR OR PARKING.
BUT YOU'RE REMOVING A LOT OF THE BRICK IN ORDER TO PUT THOSE GLASS DOORS IN.
BUT WHEN HAVING THOSE THE DOORS, THERE'S ALSO GOING TO, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY'RE LIFTED, IF THERE WAS A FLOOD, IT'S GONNA ALLOW IT TO GO THROUGH MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT'S WHAT THE WAY IT'S, UM, SET UP NOW.
BECAUSE IF YOU RAISE ALL THE DOORS, WE'LL ALLOW THE FLOOD WATERS GO THROUGH THE, UM, THE IDEA OF USING IT FOR STORAGE OR GOING BACK ON ON WHAT, WHAT, UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, WHAT RICHARD HAD SAID.
UM, SO THE FACT THAT THERE IS GLASS ON ALL THREE SIDES, IF THIS IS GONNA BE STORAGE, IS IT? WELL YOU CAN'T REALLY HAVE MUCH.
I MEAN, IF YOU'RE GONNA, IF WE'RE GONNA PUT CARS IN THERE AND YOU HAVE THE GLASS, THEN THE STORAGE IS GONNA BECOME ON THE SECOND.
YOU KNOW, THE SECOND LEVEL IS GONNA BECOME THE STORAGE.
SO, SO THE IDEA OF HAVING GLASS ON THREE SIDES, I KNOW YOU HAVE NICE CARS, YOU WANT TO KIND OF BE ABLE TO, WELL WE ALSO THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU, IF YOU'VE HAD PEOPLE OVER, YOU COULD OPEN IT UP AND YOU'VE GOT VIEWS OF THE RIVER AND IT FLOWS OFF THE PATIO AND I SEE, UM, THAT SORT OF THING AND EVENT PLACE.
UM, SO IT'S NOT LIVING SPACE, BUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE HAVING A COVERED DECK AT THE POINT.
WE WERE TRYING, I GUESS TO BE MULTI-USE
HAVE YOU HAD ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH THE, UH, STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE? THEY'RE PRETTY, THEY'RE PRETTY CREATIVE, UH, ABOUT ADAPTIVE REUSE ISSUES? UM, NO.
NOT SINCE WE MOVED IN THE HOUSE.
I HAVE, I'VE TALKED TO THEM AND, AND I THINK THAT WAS WHEN THEY WERE BETWEEN, THEY DIDN'T HAVE SOMEBODY IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE STATE AT THAT POINT.
WELL, THEY, THEY, WAYNE ROGERS, UH, IS IN EDON AND HE COMES TO NEW REGULAR PATIENTS.
UM, SO I STARTED TALKING ABOUT THE METAL.
UM, AND SOMEONE SAID WOOD IS, ARE THESE, ARE THESE DOORS, ARE THESE THINGS, ARE THESE METAL OR ARE THESE WOOD? WE KNOW WHEN WE FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT IT, I HAD IN MY MIND THAT IT WOULD BE METAL.
'CAUSE I HAD IN MY MIND THAT THIS WAS A MORE INDUSTRIAL BUILDING.
UM, BUT I REALLY DON'T HAVE STRONG FEELINGS.
I MEAN, IF IT, THEY NEED TO BE WOOD BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE, THE MAIN HOUSE IS.
I DON'T SEE, I DON'T HAVE A SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
WHAT, WHAT'S THE THOUGHTS? WOOD VERSUS METAL ON SOME OF THESE THINGS? I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CONTRIBUTING ACCESSORY.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT HAS TO BE WOOD.
WELL, I THINK BECAUSE IT'S CONTRIBUTING YOU, YOU, IT'S UM, IF YOU LOOK AT 3, 2, 1, LIMIT THE PALLET OF THESE MATERIALS THAT WERE AVAILABLE AT THE TIME A BUILDING WAS ORIGINALLY CONSTRUCTED, WHICH WAS 18 10, 18 12 SOMETHING METAL WAS, WELL, I THINK IT WOULD BE FINE TO PUT WHATEVER KIND OF WINDOW THEY WANT TO IN THE EXISTING OPENINGS.
BUT I DON'T SEE CUTTING ANYMORE OPENINGS OR LOSING ANY OF THIS BRICK WORK OR ALRIGHT, ARCHES OVER EXISTING WINDOWS.
WELL, COULD I ASK BECAUSE SURE, THERE ARE MANY, THERE ARE WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN BRICK UP.
SO THEN WHERE DID, WHERE DO YOU LAND ON THAT? I MEAN, CAN WE OPEN THOSE BACK UP? THE STANDARDS SEEM TO THINK THAT IF YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OF WHERE THE WINDOWS WERE, THAT'S WHERE THEY SHOULD GO AGAIN ON A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
SO IF WE WERE TALKING RIGHT ON THE STREET, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING THE SAME CONVERSATION.
WE'D PROBABLY SAY PUT THE WINDOWS WHERE THEY WERE.
BUT I THINK YOU'VE HEARD SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS SAY, WELL, IT'S AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, IT'S A TERTIARY A, B, C.
MAYBE THERE'S MORE THAT CAN BE DONE
[00:55:01]
REGARDING THAT.BUT I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE, AT THE STANDARDS, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT THEY NEED TO BE WHERE THEY WERE.
SO I, I HEAR YOU AND I UNDERSTAND THAT AND, AND I'M ALL ABOUT HISTORIC PRESERVATION, BUT SOME OF THE, THEY'RE NOT EVEN, UM, THEY'RE NOT EVEN SYMMETRICAL.
LIKE SOME ARE, SOME LOOK LIKE THEY WERE DOORS AND SOME LOOK LIKE THEY WERE HALF, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S VERY RANDOM.
I MEAN MAYBE THAT'S PART OF THE CHARACTER OF IT.
UM, IT'S JUST, IT'S IT MAKES IT A LITTLE HARD TO YEAH, I THINK TO FUNCTION, WELL, EXISTING HISTORY IS A VERY AWKWARD TRUTH.
I MEAN WE DON'T GET TO REARRANGE THAT.
BECAUSE WE THINK IT WOULD BE PRETTIER TO BE SYMMETRICAL.
AND I THINK THE OTHER THING TOO IS, IS IF IF, IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE FRAME, MAYBE SOME OF THE WINDOWS WERE ORIGINALLY THEY WERE ENLARGED.
THEY WERE, THEY WERE MADE SHORTER.
SOMETIMES YOU CAN TELL JUST FROM THE BRICK WORK AND THE, AND THE TRIM WORK WHERE EXACTLY IT WAS ORIGINALLY.
COULD YOU, UH, LOOK AT THE PATTERN OF EXISTING, UH, COVERED UP BRICK WINDOWS AND SELECT ONE WINDOW TO OPEN UP AND MIRROR THAT SO IT'S SYMMETRICAL ON THE OTHER SIDE? 'CAUSE YOU TOOK YOUR INSPIRATION OFF OF WHERE EXISTING WINDOW MIGHT HAVE BEEN.
COULD THEY ADAPT IT THAT WAY? WELL, CLEARLY SHE, THERE, THE, THE APPLICATION HAS THE FRONT WINDOW, THE WINDOWS THAT ARE FACING THE HOUSE.
THEY'RE IN THE SAME LOCATION APPROXIMATELY THE SAME SIZE.
AND, AND, AND THERE'S OPERABLE SHUTTERS ON THEM SIMILAR TO WHAT IS ON THERE NOW.
IS THAT CORRECT? SO COULDN'T THAT SAME SIZE PEOPLE AND THAT, I THINK YOUR, YOUR QUESTION IS ON THE SIDES.
COULD YOU TAKE THAT SAME WINDOW AND PUT IT WHERE THE WINDOWS PERHAPS WERE ARE THEY LOOK LIKE THEY'RE, WE EVEN TELL WHERE THEY NO.
WERE SOME OF THESE PICTURES THEY LOOK LIKE THEY WERE ON THE SIDE.
WE NEED TO SEE THE ACTUAL, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE PHOTOS, YES.
MAYBE IT IS KIND OF HARD TO TELL ONE OF THE SIDES.
I THINK THE ONE BASED IN THE HOUSE RIGHT THERE.
IS THERE A PHOTO OF UM, THAT UM, SOUTH SIDE OF A BETTER ONE, MATT, THAT WOULD SHOW THE I KNOW, I'M, DID YOU HAVE IT RIGHT THERE? THAT'S THE NORTH SIDE.
THE, THE, THE BOTTOM ONE THERE WITH THE POND.
THAT ONE THERE? NO, NO, THAT'S THE NORTH SIDE.
BUT THAT ONE, THAT'S THE ONE WITH AN ADDITION.
SO THAT ONE'S NOT QUITE AS AS, UM, LET'S TRY AGAIN.
THAT'S THE BACK, THAT'S THE FRONT.
SO YOU CAN SEE HOW THERE'S LIKE ON THE LOWER LEFT HAND CORNER, YOU CAN'T REALLY TELL IF IT WAS A DOOR.
YEAH, THAT LOOKS LIKE A DOUBLE WIDE ONE RIGHT THERE.
BUT IT'S, AND IT'S ALSO SHORTER THAN THAT.
YOU CAN SEE IN THAT THAT IT'S ALSO SHORTER THAN THE FRONT DOOR.
BUT IT MATCHES THE, THE WINDOW TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE STRUCTURE.
BUT DOES INSPIRE YOU TO SAY A BIGGER OPENING.
FROM A SCALE STANDPOINT, HOW, HOW BIG ARE, IS THAT DOOR THAT THE ONE ON THE RIGHT? YEAH.
IS IT A WINDOW OR IS THAT A DOOR? DOOR? IT'S, IT'S NOT REALLY A DOOR.
I MEAN, YOU'D HAVE TO LIKE, YOU CAN KIND OF TELL THE SHOVEL THERE THAT YEAH.
ALMOST FIVE, FOUR AND A HALF, FIVE FEET.
AND UH, CONSIDERING THE FLOOR IS PROBABLY UP, UH, NEAR THE BOTTOM OF THIS WINDOW.
AND YOU ALSO SEE ON THE LEFT SIDE IS THE HEADER FOR THE LIN FOR THE FRONT DOORS THAT'S THEY GOT.
THAT'S, SO ARE, ARE THOSE, UH, FLAT ARCHES, UM, ON, ON THE TOP OF, ON ON ALL SIDES WHERE THE WINDOWS USED TO BE? ARE THEY STILL THERE OR ARE THEY BEEN BRICKED IN THERE? WE GO LIKE THOSE FRONT, IT'S ALL SORT OF DIFFERENT.
[01:00:01]
SO YOU DO HAVE THE YEAH.LIGHT ARCHES IN HERE AND THEN THE, ON THE, THE SIDE THAT WE PROPOSED THE ADDITION, IT, THERE'S THREE THAT HAVE ALL BEEN BRICK BRICKED UP.
YOU CAN SEE THEY ARE, SO YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THOSE FLAT ARCHES.
NOT THE ONE ON, BUT ON THE ONE ON THE RIGHT YOU CAN EVEN SEE THE FLAT ARCHES THERE.
BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS BRICKED UP AT SOME POINT THE INSIDE.
SO WHAT WERE YOU SAYING, UM, GREGORY, ABOUT TRYING TO USE THAT FRONT WINDOW AS, AS A, A DESIGN ELEMENT FOR THE SIDES? IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE SUGGESTING? THEY MIGHT BE BIGGER, A LITTLE BIT BIGGER, BUT SAME PROPORTION.
I THINK ON THE SIDE, THEY ALREADY LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS SOME EXISTING OPENINGS, SO THEY COULD JUST, THAT'S THE BACK.
BUT TO SORT OF MIRROR THE FRONT IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ON THE SIDE WHERE THE POND IS BUT ISN'T THE BACK A LOT OF THE, THE GLASS AND THE ROOF LINE TOO, LIKE THE DORMER? YEAH.
THAT DOESN'T REALLY AFFECT THE BRICK FACADE.
WELL, THERE, THERE THERE'S TWO BIG, UH, GARAGE DOORS OR TWO BIG GLASS AND THERE'S TWOS, TWO'S ALREADY TWO OPENING.
THERE'S TWO SMALL ONES BACK THERE RIGHT NOW.
YOU JUST LARING IT JUST, IT'S KIND OF A SIMILAR, YES, IT'S GETTING RID OF SOME BRICK, BUT YOU COULD DO THE BRICK HEAD ABOVE THOSE OPENINGS.
YOU COULD EMULATE THEM TO LOOK OLD.
UM, I I I CONSIDER REARS OF A STRUCTURES WE WILL TYPICALLY ALLOW YEAH.
COMPLETE REMOVAL OF ALL THE FABRIC ON THE REAR OF A, OF A HOUSE TO BUILD A BIG ADDITION.
AS MANY STORIES AS THE HOUSE IS.
SO IS THERE MORE LATITUDE ON THE BACK? I CONTRIBUTE.
DO WE NEED TO TAKE CONSIDERATION FOR THIS SPECIFIC STRUCTURE DUE TO ITS AGE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE AND ITS PRESENCE TO THE RIVER? BECAUSE I MEAN, WE'RE JUST TALKED ABOUT THIS TYPE OF STRUCTURE BEING EXTREMELY RARE AND THEN YOU PUT THAT ON THE RIVER WITH ACCESS, YOU ACCESS FROM THE RIVER.
WELL WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH A LANDMARK HERE.
BUT AS I'M LOOKING AT IT, ARE, ARE YOU, UM, IS THE ARCHITECT CONVINCED THAT BY REMOVING ALL OF THESE BRICKS, THAT IT'S STILL GONNA BE STRUCTURALLY OKAY.
YOU'RE TAKING OUT BIG CHUNKS OF THE, OF THE WALL.
WELL, IT'S, THAT'S THEIR JOB TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
I CAN'T SPEAK FOR HER, BUT IT'S, IT'S FLEMISH.
I MEAN, THE BRICK WALLS ARE PRETTY THICK.
'CAUSE IT'S THE, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? THE FLEMISH BLONDE BOND.
AND SO IT'S, YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING PRETTY THICK.
JUST REMOVING OF THE, THAT'S WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
LOOK, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE, THEY MIGHT BE REPLACING THE HEADERS IN THE FRONT TO WELL, I DO HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT THAT.
IS YOU'RE, THEY'RE, YOU'RE ADDING A SOLDIER COURSE OR PROPOSE TO ADDING A SOLDIER COURSE IN THE TOP TO GET A LITTLE, UH, A ONE ROW OF BRICKS.
IS IS THAT, UH, IS THAT STRUCTURAL OR IS THAT, THAT'S NOT FOR HEIGHT.
I MEAN 'CAUSE THAT ONLY ADDS, WHAT, EIGHT INCHES OR SOMETHING.
SO THAT CAN'T BE A HEIGHT THING, AS YOU TALKED ABOUT, MATT, THAT THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE MORE OF A STRUCTURAL, IT CHANGED THE ROOF.
THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD JUST DECIDE AND TALK ABOUT.
SO THAT THE ROOF CAN SIT ON TOP OF IT.
IT'S SO THAT IT'S FOR THE ROOF TO HAVE A PLACE TO SET.
IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE ONLY ADDING EIGHT INCHES.
THAT'S JUST SO THAT THEY HAVE AT SURFACE TO PUT THE, UH, THE NEW ROOF STRUCTURES ON.
ALRIGHT, SO LET'S SEE IF WE CAN, UH, COME TO SOME KIND OF, UM, CONSENSUS ON ALL OF THIS.
SO I'VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY THAT THIS IS ONE OF, OF OUR VERY FEW STRUCTURES, UM, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OF THIS AGE, OF THIS TYPE OF STRUCTURE.
AND UM, I GUESS THE CAVEAT OF THAT IS, IS WE SHOULD TRY TO MAINTAIN AS MUCH OF THE ORIGINAL FABRIC AS POSSIBLE.
THEN I'VE HEARD SOME MODIFICATIONS SAYING AS ADAPTIVE REUSE THAT UH, BECAUSE IT IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IN TERTIARY A VC, THERE'S MORE, UM, MORE OPPORTUNITY THAN IT WAS IF THIS STRUCTURE WAS FACING OR RIGHT ADJACENT TO THE STREET.
IS THAT RIGHT? GOT THE, THOSE TWO DOWN.
SO I'M, I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT AND BECAUSE IF THERE IS MORE OPPORTUNITY
[01:05:01]
THEN WE NEED TO GIVE, UH, THE APPLICANT SOME GUIDANCE ON THINGS THAT WE THINK WOULD MAKE THE APPLICATION MORE IN LINE OR AS, AS MUCH IN LINE WITH THE STANDARDS AS WE CAN, WHICH MAY INCLUDE WINDOW PLACEMENT, WINDOW TYPE OF WINDOW, UM, OR ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN THINK OF.SO, UM, AND RETENTION OF FABRIC.
AS MUCH RE RETENTION OF FABRIC AS POSSIBLE.
UM, YOU KNOW, AS WE TALK ABOUT RETENTION OF FABRIC, IF, IF WE HAVE THE, THE, THE DOORS ON THE FACING THE HOUSE THAT ARE CURRENTLY GLASS, I MEAN CURRENTLY THE, CURRENTLY THEY'RE, THEY'RE WOOD MM-HMM
AND, AND AS, AS I HEAR YOU SAYING THAT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO USE IS FOR, IS THE USE OF SPACE LOOKING AT THE RIVER.
IF YOU WERE TO HAVE THOSE EXISTINGS TRY TO MIMIC WHAT'S, WHAT'S THERE NOW THEN FOR THE, THE FRONT FACE, THE FACE, THE STREET FACING THE HOUSE WOULD STILL HAVE THE SAME LOOK THAT IT IS NOW.
UM, AND THAT WOULD RETAIN THAT LOOK ON THE BACK.
IF, AS, AS, UH, COMMISSIONER MORRISON TALKED ABOUT, UM, WE ALLOW PEOPLE TO ADD ADDITIONS, PORCHES, DECKS ALL THE TIME THAT THAT'S, WHICH IS SIMILAR TO THAT, THAT'S PROBABLY OKAY.
BUT THE, THE, THE, UH, THE EXISTING POND SIDE, YOU HAVE THOSE TWO BIG, UM, IT, YOU THINK IT WOULD BE A, TO REASONABLE TO TRY TO MAINTAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THAT BRICK FABRIC ON THAT POND SIDE? I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.
NO, THAT'S WHAT YOU, I MEAN, I DON'T OKAY.
I'M, I'M TRYING TO FIND SOME, SOME, SOME, I THINK SOME MIDDLE GROUND ON, ON ALL OF THIS.
MAYBE THE FRONT GARAGE COULD LOOK SIMILAR TO WHAT, SO THERE WHAT'S FACING THE STREET.
BUT SIDE IS, SHE'S GOT A 360 DEGREE OF THE WATER THERE.
THAT'S WHY SHE WANTS TO TAKE IN THE VIEW.
AND PLUS IT IS FOR, FOR A FLOOD, IT IS GONNA BE MORE OPTIMAL TO HAVE THAT.
SO YOU CAN HAVE MORE ROOM FOR, TO LET THE WATER PASS THROUGH IF YOU HAVE LARGER, WHAT, WHAT IS THE FLOOD ELEVATION THERE? WHAT'S THAT? THE FLOOD ELEVATION THERE.
UM, I DON'T, DO YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE FLOOD ELEVATION IN THAT, IN THAT AREA AROUND 13 FEET.
IT'S, IT'S EIGHT OR NINE FEET ABOVE SEA LEVEL.
AND WHAT IS THE ELEVATION? AND THEN THE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE, WHERE THAT BUILDING SETS.
WHAT, WHAT IS THE ELEVATION? I WANNA SAY 2, 3, 4 FEET OF SEA LEVEL IS GROUND LEVEL.
UH, MATT, THERE'S A, UH, ON THE DRAWING, ONE OF THE DRAWINGS, THERE'S A LINE BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE HOUSE SITE PLAN THAT SAYS, UM, SEE IT'S SARAH'S DRAWING.
C 1 0 1 AND THERE'S A, A LINE SHOWING FLOOD ZONE.
WELL, NINE AND 10 IS THE DIVIDED LINE.
SO WHERE THE POND USED TO BE ON THE SIDE, THERE'S IS THERE IS, HOW TALL IS THE WALL AROUND IT? OH, WELL, IT'S SLOW SAND.
IT'S PROBABLY LIKE, THE HIGHEST BAR IS PROBABLY THREE FEET, TWO OR THREE FEET.
AND YOU'RE KEEPING THAT WITH THE PATIO? THE, THE, THE CURVE WALL, NOT THE POND WHERE THE POND IS.
BUT THE WALL AROUND IT WOULD, YEAH, THAT CURVE WALL THAT HAS THAT LITTLE LIKE CURLY QUEUE THING.
SO WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S YOUR ISSUE WITH TRYING TO MAINTAIN SOME FABRIC ON THE SIDE? 'CAUSE I SAW THREE, I SAW THERE'S TWO OPENINGS.
AND THEN ONE ONCE COVERED, IT COVERED UP.
I THINK SHE'S BALANCING IT BY PUTTING THE TWO MATCHING OPENINGS.
THEY'RE PUTTING TWO OPENINGS BACK WHERE THEY WERE ORIGINALLY.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE SIGNIFICANTLY BIGGER.
SO THERE'S, WELL, THERE'S ALREADY ONE, THERE WAS ALREADY ONE WINDOW ON TOP.
AND THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A WINDOW TOO ON TOP.
IF YOU LOOK AT HOW IT MAY, THE BARNS WERE MADE BACK THEN FOR VENTILATION.
MOST LIKELY IT WAS, IT, THEY JUST DID A, PROBABLY A GOOD PATCH JOB AND THEY CLOSED IN.
I, I'M PROBABLY ON THE SIDE OF SAYING WE DON'T NEED ALL THOSE GARAGE DOORS ON THE SIDES, BUT I'LL LEAVE IT TO THE ARCHITECT TO FIGURE OUT SURE.
SO THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT ARE THOSE TRIANGULAR PIECES THAT ARE IN, IN SET IN THE DORMERS.
SO IF WE'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT ADAPTIVE OR TRYING TO USE THE THINGS THAT WERE AVAILABLE, C THOSE CLEARLY DON'T, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS THAT ARE VERY MUCH MORE CURRENT THAN THEY WERE 200 YEARS AGO.
IS EVERYBODY COOL WITH THOSE KIND OF GLASS OPENINGS
[01:10:01]
ON ALL THE DORMS NOW, BACK WHEN THEY WERE BUILDING BARNS BACK THERE.'CAUSE MY HISTORY, OUR FAMILY BARN BUILDING, BUT THEY DID HAVE OPENINGS IN THE ROOF LINES FOR, FOR VENTILATION DURING THAT TIME.
NOT THIS ONE MAY NOT HAVE HAD IT, BUT IT'S POSSIBILITY THAT THERE WERE DORMERS THAT DID OPEN IN, IN ROOF ROOF LINES DURING THAT PERIOD.
THAT'S, I WOULD HARD, I FIND IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THAT WOULD ANYWAY, EMULATE A FUNCTIONAL BARN DORMER.
WHY DON'T WE ASK? THANK YOU, MIKE.
ASK THE HOMEOWNER IF THAT'S AN ISSUE.
WELL, YOU CAN, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY BECAUSE THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE EVER DONE THIS, BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF DISCUSSION AND THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT BUILDING.
WE, YOU KNOW, AS TIM SUGGESTED, I CAN GET IN TOUCH WITH THE STATE.
UM, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO, SEEMS LIKE WE ALL HAVE A LOT OF IDEAS AND I KNOW YOU HAVE OTHER PEOPLE WAITING, SO I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
WELL, AND, AND, AND BY THE WAY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE VERY PATIENT.
BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THIS IS WHAT DESIGN REVIEW IS KIND OF IS.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS DESIGN.
YOU KNOW, WE SEE THINGS BASED ON OUR STANDARDS AND PRINCIPLES.
YOU SEE THINGS AS THE, AS A PROPERTY OWNER.
AND A LOT OF TIMES THERE'S A PROFESSIONAL, YOU KNOW, IF, IF, UH, IF SARAH WERE HERE, I'M SURE SHE WOULD JUMP IN AS WELL.
WELL, AND SHE'S ACTUALLY TEXTING ME, SO SHE'S ON MUTE,
BUT I MEAN, I DO FEEL LIKE WE CAN PROBABLY TONE THAT DOWN, SOME THAT WE CAN WORK.
I, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF IT BEING THE FRONT.
I THINK WE, I THINK WE CAN SORT OF PLAY, PLAY WITH IT.
AND THEN I, I, I HEAR I'VE HEARD WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY AND I RESPECT IT AND I APPRECIATE IT.
AND ARE WE OKAY WITH THE ROOF LINE? THAT'S ONE OF THE MAJOR ISSUES.
YEAH, I THINK THE ROOF LINE IS PROBABLY THE BIG THING.
I, I CERTAINLY, I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE YOUR WILLINGNESS TO, YOU KNOW, LET US, LET US ALL MULL OVER THIS, DISCUSS IT, KICK AROUND SOME OTHER IDEAS.
I MEAN, THIS, THIS, THIS IS A, AN IMPORTANT CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE BECAUSE THEY'RE, I COULD PROBABLY COUNT ON ONE HAND THE NUMBER OF THESE THAT ARE LEFT.
YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THEY USED TO BE ALL OVER MM-HMM
UH, DOWNTOWN AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT RIVERSIDE.
BUT MOST OF THEM ARE GONE NOW.
UH, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO ADAPTIVE REUSE.
UH, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, YOUR CHALLENGES.
I UNDERSTAND THE CHALLENGES OF TRYING TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT WITH THIS, BUT I, I THINK WITH A LITTLE BIT OF, A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO KICK AROUND SOME IDEAS, SOME OPTIONS, TALKED WITH SHIPPO, UH, I DON'T REMEMBER, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER BACK, IT WAS RIGHT AROUND EASTER.
YOU AND I HAD A PHONE CONVERSATION AND WE JUST NEVER MANAGED TO CONNECT.
UH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME OTHER RESOURCES THAT I THINK COULD CERTAINLY WALK THROUGH THE STRUCTURE AND MAYBE COME UP WITH SOME OTHER IDEAS.
UH, AND THIS IS, THIS IS, TO ME, THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL BECAUSE WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT IS, THAT IS IMPORTANT THAT, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T REALLY FIT IN THE GUIDELINES WITH THE WAY WE THINGS WE USUALLY ENCOUNTER.
IT MIGHT TAKE A LITTLE EXTRA TIME.
BUT I, BUT I THINK YOU, YOU'VE HEARD THAT, UM, WE'RE TRYING TO WORK TOGETHER JUST SO WE WANNA MAINTAIN THE, THE SIGNIFICANCE OF, OF THE, OF THE VERY IMPORTANT STRUCTURE, BUT ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT YOU NEED TO DO SOME THINGS WITH IT AS WELL.
I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'RE GONNA GO INTO THE FARMING BUSINESS ANYTIME SOON AND NEED A HAY, A HAY STORAGE.
UM, SO WE, WE RECOGNIZE ALL THAT.
WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE DO THE BEST FOR THE, FOR THE COMMUNITY, FOR THE FUTURE.
AND FOR YOU, I SUPPORT ADAPTIVE REUSE, BUT NOT DESTRUCTIVE REUSE.
I, I THINK YOU MADE YOUR POINT PRETTY CLEAR.
AND I DON'T MEAN TO BE, I JUST FEEL LIKE I'VE GOTTEN GOOD FEEDBACK AND WE'LL YEAH, SURE.
WELL, I, YOU GUYS ARE STILL HERE, HUH?
[2.B. 411 E. Front St. – Additions to contributing house and contributing garage in the Tertiary AVC. ]
GO TO OUR NEXT DESIGN REVIEW.UH, FOUR 11 EAST FRONT STREET.
UH, WE'LL START WITH THE APPLICATION AGAIN.
SO THIS IS FOR, UH, HEATHER GREENLAW, UH, AND, UH, ZA TOWN RAINS IS THEIR CONTRACTOR AND APPLICANT.
UM, THEY'RE ADDING A MASTER SUITE ADDITION TO THE EXISTING HOUSE AND ADDING A SECOND FLOOR TO THE EXISTING GARAGE.
UM, ALL THE MATERIALS MATCH EXISTING MATERIALS USED ON THE HOUSE, SHINGLE AND BRICK
[01:15:01]
SIDING, ASPHALT ROOF, SHINGLE.UH, THEY'VE ADDED ALL THE INFORMATION, CHECKED OFF THE INFORMATION THEY'VE ADDED, AND IT'S BEEN SIGNED AND DATED.
AND THIS IS THE, UH, FORM FOR, UH, UM, OWNER'S AUTHORIZATION FOR MR. ZETO, UH, AND HIS COMPANY TO REPRESENT THE OWNER.
BUT I THINK THE OWNER, YOU'RE THE OWNER, RIGHT? YES.
AND ARE YOU WITH WHAT, GEORGE? YEAH.
UM, SO WE HAVE, THIS IS AN AERIAL VIEW, UH, FROM 2025 PROPERTY.
YOU CAN SEE THE SURROUNDING BUILDINGS, PROXIMITY OF ALL THE STRUCTURES AROUND HERE, PARTICULARLY THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.
UH, BUT ALSO YOUR OTHER NEIGHBOR IS CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION FOR PARKING LOT
UH, AND THESE ARE THE TWO AREAS OF, OF THE PROJECT, UH, THAT'S BEING PROPOSED.
UH, ONE, THE ADDITION TO THE HOUSE IS IN THIS TO BE PROPOSED IN THIS LOCATION ON THE SITE ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE THERE.
AND THEN THIS ADDING THE SECOND FLOOR TO THIS ONE STORY, UH, GARAGE.
SO, UM, FIRST WE, UM, HAVE TO CLARIFY, UH, WHETHER OR NOT THE STRUCTURE THE GARAGE IS, UH, CONTRIBUTING OR NOT.
THE NATIONAL REGISTER INVENTORY INDICATES IT WAS BUILT IN 1925.
I CAN JUST SAY THAT STRAIGHT UP.
UH, WE SEE HERE WITH THIS IMAGE, THIS IS FROM THE, UH, 1958 SANBORN MAP, WHICH, UH, HAS THE 1931, UH, LAYER, UH, SHOWING HERE.
AND IT SHOWS NO STRUCTURE THERE IN 1931.
SO IT WAS NOT 1925, IT WAS ALSO NOT THERE EVEN IN 1958.
SO, UM, THE NEXT QUESTION FOR US THOUGH IS THEN, UH, IF IT'S TO BE CONSIDERED, UM, CONTRIBUTING, UH, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT, ALMOST ALWAYS, IT HAS TO BE BUILT BEFORE 50 YEARS AGO OR, OR LONGER, UH, OR OLDER.
UH, SO THAT WOULD BE 1976 FOR EARLIER.
SO, UM, WE ACTUALLY DO HAVE A 1970 AERIAL HERE, UH, WHICH DOES SHOW A STRUCTURE THERE.
UH, ESSENTIALLY IT'S THE SAME SIZE AND SHAPE, SAME LOCATION.
UH, IS IT THE SAME BUILDING THAT WE HAVE HERE TODAY? MAYBE A QUESTION MARK.
I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE.
IN 1988, THERE WERE ACTUALLY TWO ADDITIONS TO THAT STRUCTURE.
THEN IN, UH, THE 1999 TO 2000, THOSE TWO, ONE OF THE ADDITIONS HAS BEEN REMOVED, AND THERE'S ONLY ONE LEFT, THE MIDDLE ONE, OR THE FIRST EDITION AS I CALL IT, IN THE DOCUMENTATION.
THEN IN 2007, THAT ONE IS ALSO GONE.
UH, BUT, UH, IN THE MEANTIME, I'M GONNA BACK UP ONE MORE, OOPS, SORRY.
UM, IN THE MEANTIME TIME, THE, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT GOT THERE.
HOW DO I GET RID OF THAT? OKAY.
UH, IN THE MEANTIME, THE COUNTY ASSESSOR'S MAP INCLUDED DATA THAT INDICATES THAT A BUILDING WAS BUILT ON THAT PROPERTY THAT WAS A, A DETACHED GARAGE SLASH SHOP.
UH, AND THAT WAS BUILT IN 1999.
AND THIS IS THE 1999 TO 2000 AERIAL.
SO THE PROBLEM IS, UH, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN IN 2000, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN IN 1999.
UM, AND THE, HOW ACCURATE IS THE ASSESSOR'S INFORMATION.
UM, BUT IS IT POSSIBLE THAT SINCE THE ADDITION, THE SECOND OR THAT FIRST ADDITION TO THE GARAGE IS GONE BY 2007, OR YES, BY 2007 WHEN THEY ADDED, QUOTE UNQUOTE BUILT A GARAGE, THEY RE DID THEY REPLACE THE GARAGE THAT WAS THERE IN 1999 WITH A NEW GARAGE, WHICH WE SEE IN 2007.
SO THAT'S CERTAINLY A POSSIBILITY.
UM, AND ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE ABOUT THAT WOULD BE THE FACT THAT THE CURRENT GARAGE HAS A DOUBLE WIDE GARAGE DOOR.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT, WHAT MIKE'S FIRST RED FLAG
[01:20:01]
WAS.UM, IN 1925, THEY DID NOT DO DOUBLE WIDE GARAGE DOORS, UM, IF AT ALL THEY DID TWO SEPARATE DOORS.
UM, BUT ANYWAY, SO THAT'S A QUESTION.
SO WE NEED TO SORT OUT WHETHER OR NOT, UH, WE THINK THAT'S TRUE OR NOT.
WHETHER IT'S A 1999 STRUCTURE OR IT'S A 1970 STRUCTURE.
WE MAY, YEAH, WE MAY NEED TO ASK, UM, EITHER THE CURRENT OWNERS OR PREVIOUS OWNERS OR OTHER, OTHER PEOPLE.
IT, IN 1970, WOULD IT STILL BE CONTRIBUTING? YEAH, BUT NOT NECESSARILY.
IT COULD BE, IT WOULD BE OLD ENOUGH TO BE CONTRIBUTING.
WE'LL, WE'LL TALK 50 YEARS IS, IS ONE OF THE COMPONENTS, BUT THERE'S OTHER, OTHER THINGS AS WELL.
YOU COULD BE YOUNGER THAN 50 AND STILL BE CONTRIBUTING.
OR YOU COULD BE OLDER AND 50 AND NOT BE CONTRIBUTING.
SO, UM, UH, IF YOU GUYS WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT NOW OR YOU WANNA WAIT UNTIL, NO, KEEP GOING.
SO THE REST OF THE, UH, THE REST OF THE APPLICATION IS, INCLUDES THE ADDITION.
THEY SHOW THE PROPOSED ADDITION HERE AND THE LOCATION OF THE, UH, GARAGE THERE.
WHAT IS THAT NOISE GOING ON? UH, THIS IS A PHOTO OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
SO YOU GET THE CHARACTER, UH, OF THE HOUSE FROM THE FRONT.
THE NEXT PAGE IS THE, UH, FLOOR PLAN OF THE HOUSE SHOWING THE ADDITION THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT.
SO THE FRONT IS ON THE RIGHT, THE DRIVEWAY IS ALONG THE TOP, JUST LIKE THE SITE PLAN.
UH, AND THE ADDITION IS HERE, UH, ATTACHED TO THE LOWER LEFT CORNER OF THE EXISTING HOUSE.
THIS IS NOW A, A PHOTO OF THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE THAT'S ALONG THE DRIVEWAY.
SO THE ADDITION WILL BE OFF TO THE, OFF THE PICTURE TO THE RIGHT AND AROUND THE CORNER FROM HERE.
IT ALSO GIVES YOU SOME IDEA OF THE, UH, CHARACTER OF THE HOUSE, EVEN ALONG ITS SIDES.
AND THEN ALONG THE BACK, THE PHOTO OF THE REAR OF THE HOUSE.
AND I'VE KIND OF OUTLINED IN YELLOW WHERE THE ADDITION IS, UH, GOING TO BE ADDED ONTO THE BACK WHERE THIS, UH, THESE TWO WINDOWS ARE, THIS SMALL ROOF, ET CETERA.
IT'LL BE A ONE STORY ADDITION ON HERE.
AND THIS IS THAT ONE, ONE STORY PORTION OF THE HOUSE.
AND THE ADDITION WILL BE ADDED ON THE LEFT HERE.
UM, I'M NOT, BEFORE YOU GO ON, I BELIEVE THEY'RE LEAVING THESE WINDOWS.
THIS PART, THIS PART WAS ADDED ON TO THE, TO THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, RIGHT? THIS, THIS ROOM NAME THE PORCH.
SO THEY'RE NOT PROPOSING TO REPLACE THIS, UH, THEY'RE ADDING ONTO IT.
THEY'RE DOING A LOT OF CHANGES, BUT NOT ON THE EXTERIOR IT SEEMS. SO HERE'S THE, UM, THE, UH, ELEVATION, THE SIDE ELEVATION THAT WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT.
THESE ARE THE TWO WINDOWS WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT.
SO YOU SEE THEY ARE STILL PROPOSING TO LEAVE THAT THERE.
THE NEW ADDITION DOES POKE OUT TOWARDS US, UM, A COUPLE OF FEET, UH, FROM THAT, UH, LITTLE, UH, ONE STORY EDITION PIECE.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE ON THIS SIDE, THE ELEVATION HAS TWO, TWO LARGER WINDOWS.
ALSO NOTE THAT, UM, UH, ONE OF THE DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF THE HOUSE ITSELF IS THESE CLIPPED WHAT THEY CALL CLIPPED GABLES, UM, ON THE ENDS.
AND THEY CREATE THESE TRIANGULAR, UM, PIECES ON THE GABLE ENDS INSTEAD OF TRIANGULAR, RIGHT? SO, UH, TRIANGULAR PIECE OF ROOFING ON THE GABLE ENDS, INSTEAD OF, UH, A TRIANGULAR SIDING GOING ALL THE WAY UP TO THE TOP, WE CAN GO BACK TO THE PHOTOS TO LOOK THAT AGAIN.
BUT THAT IS ONE OF THE ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES OF THE, OF THE HOUSE.
AND THEY'RE INCORPORATING THAT INTO THE ADDITION.
AND THIS IS THEN THE ADDITION FROM THE OTHER SIDE, UH, WHERE WE HAVE THE DRIVEWAY ALONG THIS RIGHT HAND, ALONG THIS SIDE HERE.
AND THEN THE ADDITION IN THE BACKGROUND, ESSENTIALLY, UM, HERE WITH TWO, TWO LARGER WINDOWS ON THIS SIDE.
UM, AND THEN THE, UH, THE WOOD SIDING, IT IS CARRIED DOWN TO A, UH, BRICK, UH, FOUNDATION WALL OR, UH,
[01:25:01]
BRICK SKIRT, UH, WALL THERE.AND THE NEXT ELEVATION IS THE REAR ELEVATION.
UM, SO THIS NOW WOULD BE PROJECTING FORWARD QUITE A BIT.
THE ADDITION ON THE RIGHT HERE, UM, TWO GLASS DOORS, STAIRS, UH, USING THE, UH, HALF CIRCLE WINDOW THAT THE HOUSE HAS, UM, THE SAME, UH, UH, SHINGLE SIDING AND THE SAME BRICK, UH, DOWN HERE BELOW.
LET'S SEE, THAT SHOULD BE IT FOR THAT.
THEN, UH, WHEN WE GET TO THE GARAGE, THESE ARE PHOTOS OF THE GARAGE THAT THEY PROVIDED.
UM, SO THIS, UH, LITTLE PORCH IS ACTUALLY FACING THE HOUSE, AND IT IS USING THE SAME BRICK AS THE HOUSE.
AND THERE'S YOUR DOUBLE WIDE GARAGE DOOR.
AND THEN THE, UH, THIRD SIDE FACING, UH, THE BACK PROP, THE REAR PROPERTY LINE, UH, WITH THE LITTLE SHED THAT'S THERE.
UM, AND THEY HAVE GABLE END ON THIS ONE WITH THAT, THE HALF CIRCLE, UH, ATTIC VENT.
SO THESE ARE THE DRAWINGS OF THE EXISTING, IT'S JUST NOT WORKING.
THAT'S GONNA, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HECK THAT IS.
THE, THE, THE CURRENT PLAN IS JUST SIMPLE, OPEN SPACE WITH THE GARAGE DOOR THAT GOES OVER, YOU KNOW, PULL UP THE GARAGE DOOR, AND HERE'S OUR PATIO.
AND THEN THE, UH, TWO ELEVATIONS.
SOMEBODY'S GOING TO CLOSE THE WINDOWS.
UH, FOR THE GARAGE, UH, WE CAN SEE ALL FOUR ELEVATIONS HERE.
THE ONE WE DON'T HAVE A PHOTO OF IS SIMPLY A BRICK WALL WITH THE, UH, THAT'S THE SAME AS THE OTHER SIDE THAT HAS THE GARAGE DOOR, BUT JUST WITH A FULL BRICK WALL.
I'M ASSUMING LEFT MEANS SOUTH, UH, CORRECT, YES.
AND THEN THIS WOULD BE, THIS IS THE PROPOSED, UH, DESIGN FOR THAT IS TO ADD A SECOND FLOOR WITH THE FULLY SH WITH THE FULL SHINGLES LIKE THE HOUSE, UM, SOME NEW WINDOWS OVER THE PORCH.
UH, AND THEN THE CLIPPED ROOF AGAIN HERE FOR THE, FOR THE SECOND FLOOR.
AND THEN THEY HAVE CROSS GABLES GOING ACROSS, UM, TO EACH SIDE.
SO ON THE GR ABOVE THE GARAGE DOORS IS A, UM, LIKE A HALF GABLE WITH THE CLIPPED, UH, UH, ENDS ON THE ROOFING, UH, AND A LARGE WINDOW HERE.
AND THEN ON THE BACKSIDE, ANOTHER LARGE WINDOW, SAME THING, MIRROR IMAGE, BASICALLY ON THE BACK.
AND THEN ON THE, UH, ON THE, ALL THE WAY ON THE BACK, THE REAR SIDE, UH, WHERE THE SHED IS.
UM, UH, THERE'S THE EXISTING WINDOW AND THE NEW WINDOW ABOVE IT.
UH, VERY SIMPLE, UH, EXTENSION AND COPYING OF DETAILS, UH, FROM THE HOUSE AND THE GARAGE.
ON THIS ONE, JUST FOR THE RECORD, I JUST WANNA MAKE IT KNOWN THAT I DID HAVE CONVERSATION WITH THE OWNER ON THIS.
SO I'M GOING TO NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE CONVERSATIONS ON THIS.
YOU'RE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO, BUT THANK YOU FOR LETTING US KNOW.
I, I THINK, UM, I'D LIKE YOU TO HANDLE THESE TWO, UH, PARTS SEPARATELY.
UM, AND SO WE HAVE AN ADDITION, AND THEN WE HAVE THE, THE, UM, THE GARAGE.
SO IF IT'S OKAY WITH YOU, UH, CAN WE DO THE, THE ADDITION FIRST? WE TALK ABOUT THAT.
SO WE HAVE IT, WE HAVE THAT ADDITION.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE, UH, I, THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO SEE THE CLIP ROOF.
MATT, THANK YOU FOR SO SHOWING US THAT CLIFF THAT CLIPPED, UH, GABLE.
SO, ANY QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE ADDITION, THE PROPOSED ADDITION GOING OUT THE BACK? SO, I, I, I PERSONALLY KNOW THE, THE PROPERTY OWNER AND, UH, SHE GRANTED, UH, PERMISSION.
I WENT OVER THERE THIS MORNING WITH, UH, JOHN BARNES, PRESIDENT OF THE PRESERVATION FOUNDATION, AND, UM, WALKED THROUGH THE, AND I, LEMME GET TO THE GARAGE.
THAT, THE ONLY QUESTION THAT I HAD, AND MAYBE THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN SORTED OUT AS FAR AS THE FOOTPRINT OF THE EXTENSION
[01:30:01]
OF THE ADDITION ON THE BACK, IS THE CLOSENESS TO THE PROPERTY LINE.I DON'T, I, MAN, I DON'T KNOW.
IS IT THREE FEET? I DON'T REMEMBER.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT HAS BEEN CONSIDERED IN, IN THE DRAWINGS, BUT THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT, UH, I COULD SEE IS A POTENTIAL ISSUE WITH THE ISSUE.
AND THEY ARE PROPOSING 5.1 FEET.
WE HAVE HAD ZONING REVIEW IT ALREADY, AND THEY HAVE, UH, RECEIVED, UM, APPROVAL FROM ZONING.
UM, THIS IS GONNA TIE IN TO WHERE THAT FORMER PORCH, NOW PART OF THE HOUSE IS UHHUH.
SO HOW DOES THAT ROOF WORK? IT, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS LIKE THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT ENCLOSED PORCH GO BACK UP ONE MORE.
THERE IS WHERE YOU WERE ONE OF 'EM.
THAT, THAT, I, I COULDN'T ENVISION THAT VERY WELL HOW THOSE TWO ROOFS COME TOGETHER AT THAT LOCATION.
CAN YOU GO WITH THE MICROPHONE JUST SO WE CAN, I'M SORRY.
AND THEN YEAH, YOU HAVE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TOO.
HEY, I'M GEORGE UNE WITH UNE RAIN CONSTRUCTION.
THERE'S A, THERE WILL BE A SMALL ROOF THAT WILL CONNECT, THAT WILL COME OFF THE EXISTING ROOF, ALMOST LIKE A, WHAT WE CALL A CRICKET OKAY.
SO, SO THAT EXISTING ROOF ON THE FORMER PORCH, NOW PART OF THE HOUSE THAT STAYS, BUT THERE'S GOING TO BE A CONNECTION CRICKET YES.
BETWEEN THERE AND THE END OF THE CLIPPED GABLE ON THE NEW EDITION.
AND THAT'S NOT GONNA COVER, I KNOW THAT THERE'S THIS, THERE'S A DEPTH THERE THAT'S NOT GONNA COVER THE WINDOW THAT'S EITHER ON THE SOUTH FACE OR THE WEST FACE OF THE HOUSE.
IT WILL NOT COVER, LOOKS LIKE THEY KIND OF REPRESENTED HERE A LITTLE BIT WITH THIS, UH, THE SHINGLE ROOFING COMING ACROSS HERE.
SO WHEN THE WATER RUNS DOWN HERE, IT'LL HIT THAT AND RUN OFF TO THE CORNER.
SO, SO THE HIGH POINT OF THAT WILL BE GET, BE AGAINST THE EXISTING HOUSE AND, AND SO IT'LL BE SLOPED FROM THE EXISTING HOUSE OUT.
SO IT'LL, IT'LL IT'LL SLOPE IT LEFT TO RIGHT.
SO IT'LL BE LIKE A LITTLE A COMING OFF THE BACK YEAH.
AND IT'LL BUTT UP AGAINST THE NEW ADDITION.
UP AGAINST THE NEW GATE AGAINST THE, THE, THE, OKAY.
I DON'T THINK THIS IS A STANDARDS ISSUE.
I THINK THIS IS A BUILDER'S PROBLEM.
I JUST, WHEN I TELL THAT, I'M LIKE, HOW DOES THAT POSSIBLY WORK? SO, UM, UM, THE, THE, THE FOUNDATION IS GONNA BE BLOCKED WITH A BRICK FACE.
AND THE WINDOW TRIMS ARE ALL, ARE THEY THE SAME SIZE AS THE TRIMS ON THE EXISTING? WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO MATCH EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO WHAT'S THERE.
ARE THE WINDOWS WOOD IN THIS OR ARE THEY, ARE THEY METAL IN THAT HOUSE? YIKES.
THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME REPLACEMENT, SOME REPLACEMENTS.
SO, BUT THE WINDOWS ARE GONNA BE THE SAME SIX OVER SIX WOOD.
WOOD IS VINYL ALLOWED? NO, NO.
I I WOULD, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE REST OF THE HOUSE, IF THEY HAD METAL OR WOOD, BUT IT'S AN ADDITION.
SO WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE, UM, WOOD? BECAUSE OUR, OUR, THAT'S THE NEW STANDARDS.
OUR OLD STANDARDS, OUR CURRENT CURRENT STANDARDS, OUR CURRENT CONDITIONS ARE, ARE NOT, IF YOU WANTED TO WAIT MONTHS TO, I THINK SO.
SO WHICH ARE THEY GONNA BE WOOD OR METAL? WOOD.
AND THE TRIM, THE, UH, THE, THE WOOD TRIM AROUND TO BE THE SAME SIZE AS THE REST OF THE, AS THE STRUCTURE.
UM, ANYBODY ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS? WELL, I, I'D JUST LIKE TO ADD WOOD WINDOWS.
UM, UH, YOU CAN DO DOUBLE GLAZING IF YOU WANT.
[01:35:01]
WHATEVER YOU DO, THE, UH, EXTERIOR, UH, S HAVE TO BE A THREE DIMENSIONAL PROFILE, NOT FLAT.UH, AND IF YOU DO DOUBLE GLAZING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE, UM, THE SHADOW BAR IN BETWEEN PANES OF GLASS.
THAT'LL BE A SPECIFICATION THING USUALLY, BUT WE LIKE TO SEE THEM ON THE PLAN.
THOSE KINDS OF NOTES ON THE PLANS.
UM, UH, SO, SO WHERE YOU'RE CONNECTING TO THAT FORMER PORCH, THAT'S NOW A, A, A ROOM, YOU'RE JUST GONNA TAKE OUT THOSE WINDOWS, THOSE, BUT YOU'RE NOT SAVING THOSE.
BUT THAT'LL JUST BE A, THE ENTRANCE WAY INTO THE NEW STRUCTURE.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY CONCERNS? ANY, ANY THOUGHTS THAT, WHAT ABOUT VENTING, FOUNDATION? BENDING? I, UH, IS THERE ANY FOUNDATION BENDING OR IS IT ALL ENCAPSULATED? UM, WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA TRY TO ENCAPSULATE THAT.
I DON'T, I, I DON'T, SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THAT.
COULD YOU SAY THAT ENCAPSULATE? OH, I DIDN'T SEE ANY BENDING ON THE EXISTING STRUCTURE EITHER.
SO MAYBE YOU, YOU'RE JUST MATCHING WHAT'S THERE.
SAY AGAIN? I DIDN'T SEE ANY VENTING ON THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, SO MAYBE YOU'RE JUST COPYING WHAT'S ALREADY THERE.
AND THIS SIDE OF THE DI EVERYBODY OKAY DOWN THERE? I'M JUST GONNA SAY IF YOU, IF YOU'VE GOT AN IDEA ON LIGHT STRUCTURES, LIGHT FIXTURES, YOU COULD ADD THOSE IN AS YOU COULD BRING IT IN.
YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO, BUT SAVE YOU A STEP LATER.
IF THERE'S ANY LIGHT FIXTURES RELATED TO OKAY.
ANYBODY ELSE? THAT WAS PRETTY EASY.
THE FIRST THING THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IS CONTRIBUTING VERSUS NON-CONTRIBUTING.
VERY SIMILAR DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD ON THE OTHER SIDE OF FRONT STREET.
UM, AS, AS MATT TALKED ABOUT CONTRIBUTING, UM, TYP TYPICALLY IS AT LEAST 50 YEARS OLD.
UM, THIS ONE IS QUESTIONABLE ABOUT HOW OLD IT IS, AND THEN THERE'S USUALLY A COMPONENT OF HAVING SOME KIND OF A HISTORIC ARCHITECTURAL, SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE IT, UH, CONTRIBUTING SINCE IT IS A GARAGE AND ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
UM, THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS ONE? UH, THAT WAS, THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT I FOCUSED ON WHEN I WENT OVER THERE WITH, UH, JOHN BARNES TODAY.
UH, THE BRICKS ON THE GARAGE ARE, UH, NEWER BRICKS.
UH, WHOEVER, WHOEVER BUILT THE GARAGE DID A GOOD JOB OF MATCHING THE APPEARANCE OF THE BRICKS WITH THE HOUSE.
UH, THE HOUSE USES WHAT APPEARS TO BE LIVE MORTAR, UH, WHICH WOULD MAKE SENSE BRICK FOR, FOR THE GARAGE.
THE GARAGE, UH, APPEARS TO USE PORTLAND CEMENT.
UH, THE GARAGE ROOF STRUCTURE IS ALL NEW WOOD LUMBER, WHICH APPEARS, AND IT APPEARS TO BE A MODERN TRUSS CONSTRUCTION, THAT THERE'S THE PULL DOWN STEPS, UH, IN THE GARAGE.
I DIDN'T GO UP THERE, BUT I DID OPEN IT UP AND IT'S, IT'S ALL NEW CONSTRUCTION, NEW LUMBER.
UH, THE GARAGE DOOR IS EITHER VINE OR METAL.
NOT SURE WHICH, UH, THE, I SAW ABSOLUTELY NO HINT OF ANYTHING IN THAT GARAGE BEING OLD CONSTRUCTION BASIS.
IT'S, IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT IF THERE WAS AN OLD GARAGE THERE, IT WAS DEMOLISHED.
I DON'T EVEN THINK THAT THE, THE PAD THAT IT'S ON, I THINK THAT THE CONCRETE PAD THAT IT'S ON IS A NEW AND, AND THAT PORCH THING, SAME.
THERE'S, THERE'S, I SAW NOTHING THAT MADE IT HISTORIC, ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT OR CULTURALLY SIGNIFICANT.
IT'S, IT LITERALLY LOOKS LIKE A GARAGE PROBABLY FROM THE NINETIES.
AND IT'S, IT'S NOT LISTED IN SAND BANK AT ALL.
SO RICHARD, YOU'RE TYPICALLY ARE, ARE, WELL, I, I LOOKED AT THE, JUST LOOKING AT THE PICTURES ON HERE.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE REAR GABLE, THE WAY THE CORNERS OF THE GABLE ARE TREATED WHEN THEY COME DOWN, THAT'S A TYPICALLY MODERN FORM THAT I WOULD SAY THAT'S 21ST CENTURY RIGHT THERE.
UM, YEAH, I, I NOTICED THAT THE BRICK LOOKED LIKE A, A DIFFERENT BRICK.
SO ANYWAY, I THINK THAT WAS A THANK YOU, UM, TIM, FOR, FOR CHECKING THAT OUT LITTLE, JUST WHILE I, WHILE I SEE THE PICTURE HERE AND THE LITTLE STRUCTURE IN THE BACK, THAT'S A SEPARATE SHED.
THERE'S NOTHING OF ANY, NOT ATTACHED AT ALL.
SO, UM, ARE WE ALL GOOD WITH CONSIDERING THIS TO BE A NON-CONTRIBUTORY ACCESSORY STRUCTURE? YES.
[01:40:01]
YES.WE ALL GOOD WITH THAT? MM-HMM
WELL THAT'S MAKES THINGS A LOT EASIER WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT MODIFICATIONS TO THAT.
UM, YOU SAW THE PLANS FOR THE ADDITION TO THE SECOND FLOOR WITH THE, WITH THE GABLED ENDS WITH THE CLIPPED GABLE ENDS.
UM, THOUGHTS, QUESTIONS, CONCERNS? I THINK IT LOOKS GREAT.
I, I THOUGHT THAT EMULATE THE HOUSE VERY WELL.
I THINK IT, IT MATCHES THE HOUSE VERY WELL.
HOW TALL IS THE ROOF LINE ON THAT CONDITION? IT'S TALL.
LOOKING, LOOKING AT THIS PHOTO, UM, I ASSUME THE TREE WILL GO AWAY.
OH, I'LL CHECK WITH THE OWNER.
IS THAT, IS TREE STAYING OR GOING? STAYING THAT TREE.
JUST, JUST CURIOUS IF IT'S STILL THERE AFTER THE STORM.
SO HOW TALL IS THE ROOF LIGHT? UH, ABOUT 25.
ABOUT 25 AND A HALF FEET TO THE PEAK.
THE PITCH IS HOW MUCH IS THE PITCH ON THE ROOF LINE? UH, YOU, YOU THINK WE HAD A 10 12 PITCH? I THINK SO.
IS IS THAT THE SAME PITCH ANYWHERE IN THE HOUSE? IT SHOULD BE SIMILAR.
I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT'S ON THE HOUSE, BUT IT'LL BE SIMILAR TO WHAT'S ON THE HOUSE.
DO, DO YOU, IS THAT A CONCERN OR JUST NO, I THINK IT'S GONNA LOOK MORE HISTORICALLY CORRECT.
'CAUSE IT'S MATCHING THE HOUSE.
SO I JUST WANT, IT'S HARD TO TELL FROM A DRAWING HOW BIG THE ROOF LINE IS.
I THINK THAT HAVING THE, THE, THE CLIPPED ENDS IS GONNA MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT FITS.
AND I THINK THAT'S A REALLY NICE TOUCH.
YOU GUYS DONE ALL GOOD DOWN THERE? YES, WE'RE GOOD.
SO WITH BOTH OF THESE, ARE WE OKAY IF THIS GOES TO, UH, FORMAL HEARING IN TWO WEEKS? YOU HAVE ENOUGH DETAILS? WE'RE ALL GOOD? YEP.
WE'LL, UM, ASK TO HAVE ALL THOSE CHANGES MADE WITHIN A WEEK.
UH, AND THEN WE CAN PASS THAT ON TO THEM.
AND JUST A BUNCH OF NOTES AT THIS POINT, RIGHT? YEP.
NO CHANGE TO THE DESIGNS, RIGHT? NO.
AND THANK YOU FOR, FOR WADING THROUGH THE STORM.
AND, AND, AND FOR ALL OF THIS, YOU MAY WANT TO SIT, KNOW YOU WANT TO SIT, YOU MAY WANNA SIT FOR A WHILE.
[3. INFORMAL DESIGN DISCUSSION]
MOVING TO THE INFORMAL DISCUSSION.AND THANK YOU FOR WHAT? THANK YOU FOR WAITING.
SO, UM, THIS IS, UH, THE BUILDING THAT USED TO BE THE FIREMAN'S MUSEUM, UH, AND NOW IS PROPOSED TO BE THE CHILDREN'S MUSEUM.
UH, AND, UH, IT'S LOCATED ON HANCOCK STREET HERE IN THIS BEHIND THE FIRE, THE CURRENT FIREMAN'S MUSEUM.
AND BESIDE, UH, SARAH AFRO BOX, FORMER HOME, UH, AND NEXT TO A PARKING LOT, A PUBLIC PARKING LOT, UH, AND ACROSS THE STREET FROM A COUPLE OF HOMES.
UM, HAS A VACANT LOT IN THE BACK OF IT.
THEN, UH, ZOOMING IN, WE'RE GOING TODAY WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT, UH, A DOORWAY THAT'S RIGHT HERE IN THIS LEFT HAND CORNER, BUT IT'S AT THE END OF THIS SIDEWALK UP TO THE, UH, UP TO THAT DOOR.
THE, THE REST OF THE BUILDING AND PROJECT HAS A, A LOT OF A LARGER AREA.
AND I THINK WE MAY ALSO BE TALKING ABOUT SOME FENCING AND SOME AWNINGS, BUT THOSE ARE MINOR WORKS.
BUT IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM THE HPC IF YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY, UH, THAT WILL HELP ME KNOW THAT I CAN APPROVE IT.
UM, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER THINGS YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT, UH, BRINGING UP, UH, OR DOING ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE, OF THE BUILDING ON THE ROOF OR ON THE SITE IN ANY, ANY LOCATION.
UM, ALSO GOOD JUST TO BOUNCE IT OFF THESE GUYS SINCE THIS IS A KIND OF A BONUS, UH, DESIGN REVIEW MEETING FOR YOU GUYS.
UM, NOW THEY DID SEND ME, UM, OH, SO WE DO HAVE, UH, FIRST THE, UH, STREET VIEW SHOTS.
YOU CAN SEE THIS IS THE BUILDING ON THE LEFT HAND, THE FRONT AND THE LEFT HAND SIDE.
IT GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE END OF THIS PARKING LOT, EVEN THOUGH IT LOOKS LIKE IT ENDS HERE.
IT GOES ANOTHER DOUBLE DISTANCE ALL THE WAY BACK THERE.
UH, I WAS SURPRISED WHEN I SAW IT AGAIN TODAY AND ESPECIALLY ON THE AERIAL.
BUT TODAY WE'RE GONNA TALK, I'M
[01:45:01]
GONNA MAKE THIS A LOT BIGGER.NOW WE'RE GONNA TALK MORE ABOUT WAY, HERE WE GO.
WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, UM, THIS DOOR RIGHT HERE.
SO THEY'RE NOT PROPOSING TO CHANGE THE FRONT DOOR AT ALL AT THIS POINT.
UH, AND, UH, SO IT'S JUST THIS DOOR AND MAYBE SOME OTHER FENCING WE'LL TALK ABOUT.
BUT, UH, SO FOR THAT THEY HAVE A PROPOSAL FOR, AND THAT'S, OH, THERE YOU GO.
THERE'S A UP CLOSE VIEW OF IT THAT THEY SENT ME IN THAT EMAIL.
AND THEY'RE PROPOSING TO DO A STOREFRONT, UM, REPLACEMENT FOR THE, NOW I CAN'T GET UP THERE, UM, FOR THIS ENTIRE OPENING, CORRECT? YES, YES.
IS THAT METAL DOOR? IS THAT WHAT THAT IS? IT IS A METAL DOOR, YES.
SO THAT WHOLE THING YOU CAN BRING, YOU CAN BRING THE MICROPHONE DOWN TO ME.
SO, UH, CURRENTLY, UM, JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND INFORMATION.
THE CITY OF NEW BERN, UM, IS THE OWNER OF THE BUILDING.
WE AS THE, AND I'M SORRY, COULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD? SURE THING.
UM, I'M JANE DALE, LAST NAME IS DAIL, AND I'M A BOARD MEMBER OF THE WE WEEKEND B ASSOCIATION, WHICH IS THE NONPROFIT CREATING THE, THE CHILDREN'S MUSEUM OF NEW BERN.
I'M JOHN KINON AND I'M JUST GONNA ASSISTING THEM IN JUST THE, SOME OF THE, THE WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE OVER THERE.
THE WE B ASSOCIATION, UM, BACK LAST NOVEMBER, WE WERE ABLE TO SECURE A FIVE YEAR LEASE FOR A DOLLAR A YEAR TERM TO BE ABLE TO, UM, TO USE THIS BUILDING FOR THE PURPOSES OF A CHILDREN'S MUSEUM.
UM, SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE CORE MISSION OF THE WE CAN BE ASSOCIATION, UM, IS BEING ABLE TO PROVIDE, UH, FUNDING FOR, UM, THERAPIES SUCH AS SPEECH, PHYSICAL, OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY, UM, FOR MEDICAL EQUIPMENT AND OUT-OF-POCKET MEDICAL EXPENSES FOR CHILDREN IN EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA.
AND WITH THAT, OUR MISSION WITH THIS MUSEUM IS TO HAVE EVERYTHING BE WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE.
AND SOMETHING THAT WE ARE REALLY MISSING IS, IS, IS THERE BEING AN A DA COMPLIANT DOOR ON THE FRONT, UH, IN THE FRONT ENTRANCE.
AND, UM, SO WE HAVE ENGAGED, WE'VE TALKED TO A, UM, TOTAL OPENINGS, UH, TO GIVE US A QUOTE FOR THE DOOR.
AND WE HAVE PUT IN A GRANT FOR THE AMOUNT TO, TO PAY FOR THAT, WHICH WE HOPEFULLY SHOULD HEAR BACK FROM, UH, NEXT YEAR IF WE'RE ABLE TO USE IT FOR THAT.
AND, OR I'M SORRY, LATER IT'S THIS MONTH.
AND, UM, SO CURRENTLY IT IS FEED BOARD WITH THAT METAL DOOR.
IT'S FRANKLY NOT VERY ATTRACTIVE.
I, I THINK IT PERHAPS WAS SOMETHING THAT THE CITY MAY HAVE SLAPPED UP, UM, AROUND THE TIME WHEN IT WAS TEMPORARILY BEING USED, UH, FOR THE TEMPORARY LIBRARY LOCATION.
WE THINK THAT THIS WOULD NOT ONLY, UM, BEAUTIFY THE FRONT ENTRANCE, UH, PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE LIGHT INTO THAT FOYER AREA, BUT ALSO IT WOULD, UH, BE A DA COMPLIANT AND BE WELCOMING TO OUR GUESTS WHO, UM, ARE HAVE, UH, HAVE DIFFERENT ABILITIES.
SO, SO THAT, UH, IS OF THE PROPER SIZE THEN TO ALLOW, UM, WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBILITY INTO THAT? YES, SIR.
WELL WE WOULD NEED TO ADJUST THAT.
WE CAN TALK TO OUR, UM, TO THE DOOR.
'CAUSE IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S WIDE ENOUGH FOR, FOR 88, 32, 32 OR 34 OR 36 DEPENDING.
I I THINK FOR AN ENTRANCE IT MIGHT HAVE TO BE 34, BUT 36.
WELL, WELL THAT'S A REALLY GOOD CATCH.
I'M GONNA HAVE TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT THAT.
SO WHATEVER WE DO, IT WILL DEFINITELY BE, IS THIS GONNA BE AN AUTOMATIC DOOR OR WITH A PUSH BUTTON OR WOULD THIS YES, WITH THE PUSH BUTTON.
THE PUSH BUTTON PROBABLY THEY RECOMMENDED PUTTING IT ON A POST, UM, TO, UH, THE RIGHT.
WELL IT LOOKS LIKE THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE.
WHAT'S THAT? LOOKS LIKE THE UP A LITTLE BIT.
I WAS, I THINK THAT'S THE GLAZING SIZE.
OH, THE 29 IS IT, IS THE GLASS? IT'S 30, SORRY.
I THINK IT IS A GREAT IMPROVEMENT.
IT'S GONNA GIVE YOU A VISUAL WHERE THE FRONT DOOR IS 'CAUSE THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN CONFUSING.
HOW DO YOU GET IN THE BUILDING? UM, YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD SOME LIGHTING PLAN TO THAT AS WELL.
IS THERE A EXTERIOR LIGHT THERE NOW? THERE IS.
THERE IS, UM, JUST ONE AND IT IS A KIND OF WROUGHT
[01:50:01]
IRON LOOK.UM, I WISH THERE MIGHT BE, IS THERE A PICTURE? WHAT ARE WE LOOKING FOR? GO BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL OF WHAT THE DOOR LOOKS LIKE NOW.
YEAH, SO IT'S TO THE RIGHT OF THE COMING SOON SIGN AND WE, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS, WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO TURN ON THOSE LIGHTS OR ON THAT LITTLE BAR UP THERE LIGHTING UNLESS YOU GOT THE WIRE THERE, SO.
SO, UM, ANY, ANY CONCERNS ON ANYBODY PUTTING A STOREFRONT WITH AN ACCESSIBLE FRONT TO REPLACE THE, UM, PLYWOOD AND METAL DOOR? NO CONCERNS AT ALL? WHAT'S THAT CONCERNS, MAN? IS THIS SOMETHING YOU CAN APPROVE AS A, AS A MINOR? UM, UH, TECHNICALLY NO.
IT'S NOT ON THE TERTIARY ALL AND, AND JUST, YOU WILL NEED THE CITY TO BE THE APPLICANT AND AUTHORIZING YOU TO SPEAK FOR THE, WOULD THAT BE PUBLIC WORKS? UM, WOULD THAT BE JUST I'M DEAL, I DEAL WITH THE FARMER'S MARKET.
WE HAVE TO USE, WE USE THE CITY MANAGER AND HE OKAYS IT.
WE'LL DO OUR RESEARCH AND WE'LL FIND OUT WHAT AND, AND NO CONCERNS DOWN THERE? NO, I THINK IS IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT, WHILE YOU'RE HERE, YOU, YOU NEED TO, TO TALK ABOUT ON THE X SIDE OF, ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING? UH, YES, WE'RE GONNA BE REPLACING THE, UH, AWNING OVER THE, THE TWO BAR DOORS AND PUTTING ANOTHER AWNING OVER THE ENTRANCE DOOR.
FABRIC REPLACING FABRIC LIGHT IN KIND LIKELY AND ADDING ONE OVER THE, OVER THE NEW STOREFRONT AS WELL? CORRECT.
LOOKS LIKE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN ONE AT ONE POINT.
MATT, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN HANDLE THROUGH? YES.
SO, UM, UH, AS JUST AS SOON AS YOU TURN IN YOUR APPLICATION, WE'LL REVIEW WHAT DRAWINGS YOU HAVE FOR THAT.
YOU'RE SAYING JUST REPLACING THE TARP OR THE FABRIC ON THE FRONT ONE IF WE CAN, BUT IF WE'RE ABLE TO, THAT WOULD BE BEST FOR OUR BUDGET.
AND THEN ON THE, ON THE REAR ONE, IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS ALL, UH, PLASTER STUCCO HERE.
BUT IS THERE, UH, SOME MASONRY BEHIND THAT? UH, OR WOOD? THERE IS A CENTER LOCK BEHIND THE STUCCO.
UM, ALRIGHT, WELL I DON'T, I GUESS WE DON'T CARE 'CAUSE OF THE STUCCO.
UM, NORMALLY WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT PUTTING THE ATTACHING THINGS INTO MASON REED TO GO INTO THE, INTO THE, UH, MORTAR JOINTS, BUT, UH, THAT'S, UH, 'CAUSE OF, UM, WEATHERING IF IT'S BLOCKED, WE DON'T.
THEN IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE'RE GONNA BE REPLACING THAT THE ONE FENCE THAT YOU SEE THERE.
IT'LL, IT'LL BE IDENTICAL EXCEPT IT INSTEAD OF EIGHT FOOT, IT'LL BE SIX FOOT TALL.
UM, THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE EIGHT FOOT'S NOT ALLOWED.
UH, BUT, UM, UH, FEEL FREE TO CHANGE THE DESIGN OF IT IF YOU DON'T HAVE PARTICULARLY LIKE THAT ONE.
BUT DO WHAT? FEEL FREE TO CHANGE THE DESIGN OF IT IF OH, OKAY.
SO IF YOU DON'T PARTICULARLY LIKE THAT PARTICULAR DESIGN, BUT IT SEEMS FINE TOO.
UM, ANYTHING ELSE? HOW ABOUT IN, IN THE BACK WE'RE GONNA BE PUTTING A, UH, A FENCE AROUND THE COURTYARD AREA AND TURNING THAT INTO A PICNIC AREA.
RIGHT NOW IT'S CURRENTLY BRICK.
UM, WE'LL BE, UM, IT'S BRICK WITH SOME PLANTING AREAS.
WE'RE GONNA BE REMOVING THE PLANTING AREAS AND EXTENDING THE BRICK A LITTLE BIT.
AND THEN PUTTING A, IT'S GONNA BE AN ALUMINUM, UH, SIMULATION, BROAD IRON FENCE AROUND THAT WHOLE AREA.
SO I WOULD SUGGEST YOU COULD DO THE, UH, THE AWNINGS, THE FENCING, UH, ALTOGETHER ON ONE APPLICATION.
'CAUSE THEY'RE ALL MINOR WORK.
UH, PAY ONE FEE, YOU HAVE ONE APPROVAL, IT ALL WORKS OUT, UH, FOR YOU.
PROBABLY BETTER IF THERE'S, ENDS UP A PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THE PARTS OF IT IN ANY PARTICULAR WAY AND YOU'RE IN A BIG HURRY, YOU COULD THEN SPLIT 'EM UP AND HAVE THE EASY ONES GO FIRST AND THE MORE PROBLEMATIC ONES COME LATER.
BUT I DON'T FORESEE ANY PROBLEMATIC ONES AT THE MOMENT, THE WAY YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT.
UM, WE DO HAVE A REQUIREMENT FOR A METAL FENCING TO HAVE, UH, CONCEALED, UH, FASTENERS FROM, BUT CONCEALED FROM THE STREET.
IT HAS TO BE CONCEALED FASTENERS FROM THE CONCEALED FROM THE VIEW, FROM THE STREET, FROM VIEW, FROM THE STREET.
SO ALL THE WAY IN THE BACK, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM EITHER.
SO, UM, AND THEN THAT FENCE CAN EVEN ALSO
[01:55:01]
GO TO SIX FEET IF YOU WANT IT.UM, BUT, UH, MOST PEOPLE DO METAL FENCES FOUR FEET TALL.
UM, AND THEN THE PATIO CONSTRUCTION.
UM, UH, ANY STRUCTURES, GAZEBOS, UH, PERGOLAS, ANY OF THAT KIND OF THING? NO, WE'RE LOOKING AT POTENTIALLY PUTTING A, UH, FABRIC LINING FOR SHADE.
COMING OUT THE BUILDING, BUT TRIANGULAR CORRECT THINGS.
SO ADD THAT TO YOUR DRAWINGS AND STUFF.
I JUST HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.
IF YOU GO BACK ONE PICTURE OF THE BUILDING PICTURE OF THE BUILDING THAT I KNOW THE OTHER ONE.
UM, HOW DOES IT LOOK AT NIGHT? I MEAN, I PARK THAT PARKING LOT A LOT AND I DON'T SEE A LOT OF EXTERIOR LIGHTING.
HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT FOR SAFETY? IT'S NOT THAT WE OPEN IT.
WELL, IN THE WINTERTIME IT'S DARKER.
THERE IS ONE LIGHT BEHIND THAT, UH, KIND OF PALMETTO TREE AND THERE IS ONE, UM, IT'S KIND OF BEING BLOCKED BY THAT WOODEN FENCE THAT'S ON THE RIGHT.
UM, BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT KEEP IN MIND, UM, WITH THAT MINOR WORK.
SO GO AHEAD AND ADD IT ON THERE, EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT OR NOT.
HAVE IT APPROVED AND ONCE YOU START ANY OF THE WORK ON THE APPLICATION, THEN IT'S ALL IT, THE APPROVAL DOES NOT EXPIRE GOOD.
LIKE, MY SUGGESTION BE LIKE ON THE BARN DOOR ON EITHER SIDE, SOME SCONCE LIGHTING OR SOMETHING THAT GIVES SOME LIGHTING THAT BLANK WALL BEFORE YOU GET TO YOUR, UH, BEFORE YOU GET TO THE NEW GLASS DOOR, THERE MIGHT BE SOME LIGHTING ON THAT WALL.
AND THEN OF COURSE BY THE NEW DOORWAY AREA.
JUST 'CAUSE I, I THINK IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO, FOR SAFETY TOO.
THEY COULD EVEN HAVE A LIGHT IF THEY'RE GONNA, YOU CAN HAVE A SIGN THERE, I'M GUESSING.
UM, WE'RE, WE ARE HOPING WHERE YOU CAN KIND OF FAINTLY SEE WHERE IT SAYS FIREMAN'S MUSEUM.
BEFORE WE'RE HOPING TO, UM, TO HAVE A SIGN THERE.
AND YOU I THINK THAT LIGHTING ON THAT AS WELL.
SO GO AHEAD AND ADD THAT TO THE APPLICATION TOO.
AND THEY WERE SUGGESTING LIGHTING OVER THAT, SO YEAH,
WHAT ABOUT JUST PAINTED THE INTERIOR? WE'RE OKAY, DOES THAT YEAH, PAINT DOES NOT REQUIRE A, UM, A PERMIT.
AND I WAS QUESTIONING THE, UH, FOUR FOOT IRON FENCE IN THE COURTYARD.
I DIDN'T KNOW WHY IF IT WAS ALLOWABLE TO HAVE SIX FOOT FOR SAFETY AS WELL.
SO, SO I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY GOT ACTS OR THE KIDS COULD JUMP OVER IT OR PEOPLE COULD COME IN THAT WAY.
DO WE HAVE TO SPECIFY THE HEIGHT OF THE FENCE WHEN YES, PLEASE.
I THINK WE WOULD BE OPEN TO SIX FENCE TO KEEP THE GROUND.
ALTHOUGH, ALTHOUGH I SUPPOSE YOU COULD NOTE ON THE PLAN AND IT WOULD BE APPROVED EITHER WAY IS JUST TO SAY NOT TO EXCEED SIX FEET.
THAT'S A, THAT'S A SUGGESTION.
WELL THANK YOU GUYS VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN.
[4.A. Report on discussions on the Historic Preservation Awards Program ]
FOUR A? FOUR A IS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION AWARDS PROGRAM.UM, AS, AS YOU, I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT LAST MEETING, UM, WE WORKED WITH THE CITY, THE APPLICATION FOR THE AWARDS IS NOW ONLINE.
UM, OOH, I HAVEN'T HAVE IT ON SCREEN.
I I, THE, THE NOMINATION FORM, I THINK MATT HANDED ONE OUT THERE IS THE, THERE IS THE FORM, WELL THIS IS THE ONLINE PAGE AND THE FORM, YOU CAN CLICK THERE AND THEN WHEN YOU CLICK THERE YOU GET, THIS IS THE FORM WE HANDED THEM OUT.
YOU ALL GOT TWO BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO HAND IT OUT TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS.
YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T DO IT YOURSELF NOR CAN YOU TURN IT IN, BUT YOU CAN CERTAINLY LET SOMEBODY ELSE DO IT.
THE CITY IS GOING TO BE SENDING IT OUT SOCIAL MEDIA THIS EVENING, UM, TO THEIR 35,000 OR SO ON THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA.
I'M SURE IT'S GONNA BE OUT ON RIVERSIDE SOON.
AND THEN THIS ON THE SCREEN IS THE, ON, WHEN YOU CLICK ON THE ONLINE VERSION, THIS IS THE ONLINE FORM.
IT ALSO IS ONLY ONE PAGE AND WE'VE DETERMINED THAT END OF SEPTEMBER IS THE DEADLINE.
AND THEN IN OCTOBER WE CAN SEE WHAT ALL WAS SUBMITTED AND HOW WE MOVE FROM
[02:00:01]
THERE.[4.B. Report on discussions on the Prevention of Demolition by Neglect cases ]
GO.DEMOLITION PREVENTION, DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT.
SO ON THE SCREEN WE HAVE, UH, A, UH, UH, GLIMPSE OF OUR THREE DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF THE, UH, SPREADSHEET WE USE.
UH, KEEP TRACK OF PROJECTS ON THE LEFT.
THE RED ONES ARE THE TOP HIGHEST PRIORITY.
UH, AND THE ONES IN THE MIDDLE, THE YELLOW AND THE ORANGE AND A LITTLE BIT OF THE GREEN ARE THE YELLOW AND THE ORANGE ARE THE HIGHER AND HIGH PRIORITY ONES.
AND THEN THE, UM, THE GREEN ONES ARE ACTUALLY THE SUCCESS STORIES.
SO ALL THE GREEN ONES, ALTHOUGH I HAVE TO SAY I TRIED TO FIX IT, BUT IT ENDS UP CHEATING A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE IT REPEATS, UM, NUMBERS TWO THROUGH SIX AT THE TOP OF THE THIRD COLUMN.
SO MAKES IT LOOK LIKE IT'S MORE THAN IT IS
BUT I COULDN'T GET IT TO CUT OFF.
SO ANYWAY, UH, THAT FOR THIS MEETING, UH, I ALSO FOR THE, IN THE LONG FORM OF THE, UH, AGENDA, WHICH YOU GUYS GET, UM, I ADDED THESE PROJECTS INTO THE, UH, PREVENTION DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT PAGE, WHICH IS, LET'S SEE DOWN HERE, THE SECOND PAGE HERE.
UH, C UM, VIOLATIONS OR DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT CASES.
SO THERE'S A LOT MORE, UM, INFORMATION IN BOLD HERE THAT'S NEW BECAUSE I ADDED THOSE IN NOW.
SO
PREVENTION OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT.
SO THE PREVENTION, THE P IS PREVENTION.
AND SO PARTICIPANT IS ONE OF THE PARTICIPANT IS, OH, UH, PDBN PARTICIPANT IS SOMEONE WHO'S PARTICIPATING IN OUR, UH, DISCUSSION.
ONE OF, ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS.
WELL, WE HAVE COMMISSIONERS AND NONCOMS ON, WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE FROM THE PUBLIC ALSO INVOLVED.
SO, BUT WE DO HAVE THREE COMMISSIONERS ON THERE.
UH, AND UM, I'VE ALSO ADDED, UH, AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT LIST, UH, TWO LINES THERE.
UH, ONE HAS BEEN REMOVED THIS PAST MONTH.
ONE WAS REMOVED FROM CONCERN, UH, I THINK ABOUT TWO MORE.
UH, DEMOLITION AMOUNT, NEGLECT, PROPERTIES OF CONCERN WERE ADDED AND ABOUT FIVE MORE TO BE DETERMINED.
SO IT LOOKS LIKE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS THERE'S MORE THAT'S ADDED ONTO THE LIST THAN ARE TAKEN OFF.
UM, PREVIOUS MONTH WE HAD REMOVED ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN AND ADDED ONE MAYBE.
THIS MONTH WE ADDED TWO, UM, AND WE REMOVED ONE.
SO I THINK WE'RE, UH, NET POSITIVE AT THE MOMENT.
ANY QUESTIONS ON, UM, PREVENTION AND DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT? JUST 7 0 1 BROAD.
ARE WE ANY CLOSER TO WRITING THE LETTER? WHAT? I'M SORRY.
ARE WE CLOSER TO WRITING THE LETTER? UH, NOT CLOSER THAN LAST MONTH, BUT CLOSER THAN LAST YEAR, I BELIEVE.
'CAUSE IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE IT.
IS IS THAT JUST A TIME CONCERN? THERE'S THERE'S NOT A YES.
IS THAT WHAT IT IS? JUST A, OKAY.
ANY QUESTIONS? ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON, UH, DBN? UM, MAN, I BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT EIGHT 11 P*****K, UH, WE, WE RECENTLY ADDED THAT.
UH, THAT'S ONE OF THE NEW ONES THAT WE RECEIVED THIS MONTH.
SO WE, YOU KNOW, ONE, WE ARE TRYING TO, TO PUSH THAT ONE FORWARD AND SINCE WE, UH, DENIED DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURE, WE ALL COLLECTIVELY, UH, ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN SO THAT IT DOESN'T SIT THERE ANOTHER 10 YEARS.
AND WHEN YOU SAY WE, UH, THE, THE WORK GROUP FOR THIS AND WE'RE ALSO REACHING OUT TO THE NEIGHBOR PRESERVATION FOUNDATION TO SEE IF THEY CAN, UH, HELP MAKE SOME, SOMETHING HAPPEN WITH THIS.
NOW THIS IS THE SPOT IN OUR, OUR, OUR AGENDA WHERE WE, UM, HAVE ON THE AGENDA TO TALK ABOUT THE REST OF THE STANDARDS COMMENTS.
NOW I LOOK AT THE CLOCK AND IT IS CURRENTLY 7 47 36.
[02:05:04]
I'M GUESSING THAT THE COMMENTS ARE GONNA TAKE THE BETTER PART OF AN HOUR, MAYBE EVEN A LITTLE MORE, A LITTLE LESS.IS THAT SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY'S PREPARED TO GO FORWARD WITH? DO YOU WANT THAT QUICK BREAK AND JUST KIND OF PUSH THROUGH IT? DO THE REASON I I, I WOULD LIKE TO GO FORWARD AND DO IT DESPITE THE, THE TIME IS THAT IN ORDER TO GET IT DONE AND IN OUR HANDS FOR THE FORMAL MEETING TO APPROVE IT AND PUSH IT ON TO P AND Z, WE NEED TO GET THESE COMMENTS GENERATED IN A, IN A PRETTY QUICK TIMEFRAME.
IF WE TRY TO SCHEDULE A, A SPECIAL MEETING FOR A FEW WEEKS, WE'RE PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO GET IT TO P AND Z IN TIME, WHICH PUSHES THE WHOLE THING BACK.
MATT, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? UH, WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO FINISH THIS, THIS EVENING TO MAKE THE TIMELINE.
THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I UNDERSTAND.
DO WE HAVE TO BE TELEVISED THIS PART OF THE MEETING? YES.
SO LET, LET, LET'S TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND, AND JUMP ON THIS.
EVERYBODY DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.
SO WE'RE GONNA START AT A QUARTER TO EIGHT.
WE'RE GONNA START GOING THROUGH THESE COMMENTS.
SO, UM, IS EVERYBODY READY TO START AGAIN, MS. JONES? OKAY.
[4.C. Discussion on Design Principles and Standards Updates ]
IF YOU RECALL WE WE'RE WORKING OFF THE, UH, THE, THE, THE DRAFT DESIGN PRINCIPLE STANDARDS CONCERNS, UH, WORKSHEET THAT WE HANDED OUT.I THINK MATT HANDED ANOTHER ONE OUT TONIGHT.
IF YOU DIDN'T BRING IT WITH YOU.
WE'RE WORKING OFF THOSE COMMENTS.
THEY WERE GENERATED BY THE ONLINE, BY THE IN PERSON AND BY OTHERS.
UM, TO GO THROUGH THEM ALL, WE WENT THROUGH A LOT LAST TIME.
WE HAVE JUST SOME MORE TO GO THROUGH THIS EVENING, BUT WE DO HAVE THE DRAFT OF WHAT WAS THE CONSENSUS VOTE FROM LAST TIME THAT WE PASSED OUT TONIGHT.
IF YOU GUYS COULD TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE, MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE, YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH, UM, THE, THE CONSENSUS THAT WE, UM, UH, DRAFT, PUT IN THE DRAFT, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
'CAUSE WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE DOING IS TAKING THE COMMENTS FROM THE DRAFT AND THE COMMENTS THAT WE MAKE TONIGHT AND DOING A REVISION AND HOPEFULLY HANDING OUT THE REVISED DRAFT OF THE NEXT MEETING, GETTING SOME APPROVAL, AND THEN LETTING MOVE ON TO THE PMZ.
I KNOW THIS IS NOT VERY CONDUCIVE FOR DISCUSSION, BUT WE'LL TRY TO GO THROUGH.
WE'RE, WE'RE STARTING ON THE, THE BOTTOM OF PAGE FOUR, WHICH IS THE ACCESSORY BUILDING'S GARAGES.
THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE STOPPED LAST TIME AT THE SPECIAL MEETING.
UM, WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT, UH, THAT THERE IS A, A, A IN THE TEXT THERE IS, UM, IN SECTION 2.6, UM, ATTACHED GARAGES ARE NOT APPROPRIATE IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN.
AND THE QUESTION WAS, SHOULD THAT BE A STANDARD OR ARE WE OKAY JUST KEEPING IT IN THE TEXT? THE TEXT BEING THE PRINCIPLES, THE TEXT BEING THE PRINCIPLES.
WE, WE, THIS HAS COME UP BEFORE, UH, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAD NOTED THAT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE NEED TO ADD THIS AS A STANDARD.
WE'VE, WE'VE RELIED ON THE DIAGRAM THAT'S IN THERE RIGHT NOW UNDER THE THEORY THAT IF IT'S IN THE GUIDELINES AND, YOU KNOW, NOT OKAY, WE CAN ADDRESS IT.
BUT I I DO YOU WANT PUT TO SAY WE NEED MAKE THIS, ARE ARE YOU GUYS OKAY IF THIS BECOMES A STANDARD? YEP, YEP, YEP.
THE, THE NEXT ONE IS THE, THE, SHOULD THERE BE SOME EXPLANATION IN THE PRINCIPLES ABOUT WHAT AN ATTACHED GARAGE IS? UH, SOME OF THE EXAMPLES WE TALKED ABOUT, IF THE GARAGE BUILDING IS CONNECTED BY A WALKWAY, DOES THAT MAKE IT ATTACHED? IF THE, THERE'S PARKING UNDERNEATH A STRUCTURE, DOES THAT MAKE IT ATTACHED PARKING? SO SHOULD THERE BE A COUPLE OF SENTENCES JUST EXPLAINING WHAT ATTACHED GARAGE IS? YEAH.
A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT, AND I, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE HOUSE, BUT THE END OF, AT, AT, UM, EAST FRONT.
UM, AND IT DOES HAVE LIKE A WALKWAY TYPE OR IS IT ENCLOSED THAT LITTLE WHITE? I THINK IT'S JUST A COVERING.
THAT GOES TO THE ACTUAL GARAGE.
SO, BUT THE ONE IN RIVERSIDE THAT WE DID APPROVE IS, HAS A, A NICE ATTACHMENT JUST AT A ROOF LEVEL.
WELL, I DO KNOW THAT THERE WAS A, A PERSON WHO NO LONGER LIVES HERE WHO WANTED TO DO AN AIRBNB IN A COMPLETELY DETACHED BUILDING.
IT WAS ABOUT 15 FEET FROM THE HOUSE.
AND IN ORDER FOR THE CITY TO APPROVE IT AS PART OF HER HOUSE, AND IT, IT'S A DIFFERENT REQUIREMENT FOR AIRBNB IF IT'S PART OF THE HOUSE,
[02:10:01]
IT WAS SUFFICIENT FOR THE HOMEOWNER TO ADD A WOODEN WALKWAY AND A LITTLEAND SO I THINK THAT, THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S ATTACHED.
AND SO SHOULD WE DEFINE THAT IN THE, IN THE STANDARDS, MAKING SURE THAT HAD THE SAME ISSUE WHEN HE BILL DR.
CROSS'S? I DON'T KNOW THAT ONE.
THE ONE THAT BUILT THE BIG EXTENSION OUT THE BACK DOWN.
THERE'S A WALKWAY, WHICH I BELIEVE HE WAS REQUIRED TO HAVE IN ORDER TO SAY IT WAS ATTACHED.
AND IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO, IS IT CONSIDERED ATTACHED IF IT'S RAISED IN YOUR PARKING UNDERNEATH IT.
WELL, THAT'S MY, MY, YEAH, THAT'S, I ASKED THAT QUESTION.
MY POINT WAS ABOUT AN ELEVATED HOUSE DOWN BY THE RIVER.
IF YOU ENTER FROM THE REAR, IS THAT ATTACHED? IF YOU CAN GO UNDER YOUR HOUSE, WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THAT WITH THE NEW, THE CORONA AUTO HOUSE.
THAT'S YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S TRUE.
AND I REMEMBER, I REMEMBER THERE WAS A'S HOUSE.
YEAH, SHE TELL, BECAUSE WE, WE DIDN'T ALLOW THAT.
I REMEMBER THERE WAS AN APPLICATION WHERE THEY CAME TO US AND THE, I MEAN THE, THE GARAGE WAS LITERALLY INTEGRATED INTO THE HOUSE AND WE ASKED FOR A, YOU KNOW, A DETACHED GARAGE AND WE DID ALLOW A, A, A SHORT WALKWAY BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE HOUSE WITH A COVERED WALKWAY.
BUT IS THAT CONSIDERED ATTACHED? YEAH, WELL IT'S, IT'S KIND OF, IT'S COVERED.
WE CAN DEFINE AN ATTACHED GARAGE AS WE WANT.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT INSTEAD OF HAVING, YOU KNOW, TWO OR THREE PARAGRAPHS IN THE, UH, IN THE, UH, NARRATIVE FOR THIS, WE PUT IT WITH THE, WHAT I CALL THE OPERATIONAL DEFINITIONS IN CHAPTER SEVEN.
AND WE CAN BE AS EXTENSIVE AS WE WANT THERE.
WILL ANYBODY LOOK THERE THOUGH, OTHER THAN US? OH, WELL, YES, WE CAN CERTAINLY DIRECT THEM TO THAT.
CAN, YES, CAN I ASK A WEIRD QUESTION ON THAT ONE? WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO ACHIEVE WITH THAT CODE? BECAUSE THERE, THERE'S A CERTAIN ITEM I'M THINKING ABOUT WITH HOTELS THAT'S DONE TO SKIRT A FIRE RATING ITEM THAT IS COMPLETELY LEGAL, THAT ALLOWS THEM TO HAVE THE CARPORT THAT WE ALL DRIVE UNDER WHEN WE GO CHECK IN THE HOTEL.
SO WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO CONVEY WITH THE WORD ATTACHED? I THINK BECAUSE IT'S IN TIGHT WEAVE, YOU'RE TRYING TO CONVEY THAT THESE WERE CARRIAGE HOUSES.
CARRIAGE HOUSES, EXCUSE ME, WAS ALWAYS DETACHED.
ACTUALLY, AUTO HOUSES, CAR HOUSES, HEAR ME ROAR.
UM, ON THE 1931 SANDBORN MAPS, THE BLOCK THAT MY HOUSE IS ON HANCOCK P*****K, METCALF, AND SOUTH FRONT IN 1931, THERE WERE 32 DETACHED AUTO HOUSES.
THEY STOOD SEPARATELY AND THEY WERE MARKED AS AUTO HOUSES BECAUSE THE INSURANCE INSURANCE COMPANY SAW THEM AS A FURTHER FIRE HAZARD BECAUSE OF THE GASOLINE.
BUT THERE WERE A FEW THAT WERE ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE.
AND I, YOU CAN SEE 'EM ON THE SAND BOARD IN THE 1931 SAND BOARD ATTACHED, LIKE RIGHT NEXT TO OR NO, THAT WERE, THAT WERE PART OF, HE WOULD BE PART OF THE HOUSE.
AND WE, UH, THE, UH, THE, THE DIAGRAM THAT MATT IS SHOWING, OR THE, I SHOULD SAY THE ILLUSTRATION THAT MATT IS SHOWING IS, IS THE POINT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IS THE, UM, THE STRUCTURE ON THE OR OR THE DI THE, THE ILLUSTRATION ON THE RIGHT SIDE WHERE YOU'VE GOT YOU THE GARAGE FLOOR, THE GARAGE, YOU KNOW, ATTACHED TO THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
THAT'S WELL, AN ALL OF SUBURBAN NEWBURN IS FULL OF THOSE HOUSES.
AND, AND WE'RE TRYING TO NOT HAVE THAT, UH, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
I, I THINK IT, WE, WE NEED TO WRITE IT IN SUCH WAY THAT THE GARAGE NEEDS TO BE IN THE BACK.
THAT'S ALREADY TO BE ATTACHED, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE IN THE BACK.
I THINK 2 6 1 HAS THAT GOING ON JUST A LITTLE BIT FURTHER, HAS ANYBODY SEEN THE HOUSE AT THE END OF B STREET? THAT THE BUILDING AND THE AND OF WHAT STREET? B STREET? NO, UM, IT'S, IT'S, THEY HAVE AN ATTACHED GARAGE, BUT IT'S SHOTGUN HOUSE AND IT'S AT A CORNER.
SO ANYWAYS, IT'S JUST VERY ELONGATED AND IT'S ATTACHED AND IT'S A DOUBLE CAR GARAGE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU REALLY WANT? 'CAUSE IT DOESN'T LOOK, I DON'T HAVE SEE A DETACHED GARAGE.
BUT YEAH, I THINK, I THINK WE STILL WANT DETACHED GARAGES.
I THINK EVERYTH SAYING WE WANT ATTACHED TIGHT WEED IN TIGHT WEED.
NOW THE, THE, I THINK WE'RE ALL GOOD SO FAR.
THE QUESTION I THINK CAME UP THOUGH, IS PARKING UNDERNEATH IS, IS THAT ATTACHED GARAGE? I WOULD SAY NO, BUT THAT'S AND THE ROOF IS, IS
[02:15:01]
IS A ROOF EXTENSION AND ATTACHMENT, RICHARD SAID FROM YES.WE CAN DECIDE WHAT IT'S, WE CAN DECIDE.
DO, DO YOU THINK THAT HAVING A WALKWAY BETWEEN A GARAGE AND A HOUSE CONSTITUTE A ATTACHED GARAGE? NO.
I THINK IT'S DETACHED WITH A WALKWAY.
BASICALLY TWO STRUCTURED WITH A COVERED WALKWAY, WITH A COVERED WALK DETACHED WITH A COVERED WALKWAY WALKWAY.
BECAUSE IT'S TWO SEPARATE STRUCTURES, THEY'RE NOT ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE.
I STILL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN ABOUT THE WORK.
BECAUSE YOU COULD SKIRT, BUT HAVING A, HAVING A SEPARATE STRUCTURE RIGHT NEXT TO IT.
ACTUALLY, HE'S SEPARATED BY BE AVENUE HOUSE, RIGHT ON MY STREET.
WE, IS THERE BETTER WAY? THAT'S, I'M SORRY, RIVERSIDE.
OR YOU COULD HAVE A MINIMUM DISTANCE.
MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THAT THE ENCLOSED GARAGE IS ONE THING.
UM, BUT JUST GET INTO A CARPORT COVERED STRUCTURE.
IT STARTS TO GOING, I THINK THE, THE CONCEPT BEING IN THE TERTIARY, IT'S ON MY SIDE.
SO YOU DON'T I AGREE THAT, AND, AND I THINK THAT HAVING A SEPARATE STRUCTURE IS REALLY MORE GO LEFT, TAKE A, AND WE COULD HAVE IN SOME KIND OF A SEPARATE, IF IT'S ENCLOSED.
IF IT'S, IF IT'S LIKE A CARPORT OR TYPE, WHAT DID THEY CALL RICHARD? BY TURN AROUND.
IT'S ON THE END OF THE STREET ON THE RIGHT.
WHAT DID THEY CALL, WHAT WAS THE CARPORT? THE CARRIAGE PORT OR THE WHERE YOU THE WORD PORK.
BUT THAT BIG RIGHT THERE EXISTS ON HISTORICAL HOMES.
IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE, LEMME KNOW JOHN.
I'M JUST NOT SURE HOW, OKAY, WE'RE MOVING ON.
WE'RE FLIPPING OVER TO PAGE, PAGE FIVE.
IN, UM, IN OUR, IN OUR DRAFT, WE HAVE SOMETHING CALLED THE STACK PODIUM, WHICH IS THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN, WHICH WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THE, UH, HOUSING AUTHORITIES.
AND WE USE STACK PODIUM, UM, AS, AS KIND OF A PLACE HOLD, UM, BECAUSE OF STACK PODIUM, AS OUR ARCHITECT WILL BE GLAD TO LET US KNOW, IS A TYPE OF, UH, BUILDING IN WHICH YOU HAVE PARKING UNDERNEATH, AND THEN YOU HAVE YOUR, YOUR UPPER FLOORS ALMOST LIKE ON A PLATFORM, A PODIUM ABOVE THE PARKING.
HOWEVER, AS YOU KNOW, THERE IS GONNA BE MULTIPLE TYPES OF STRUCTURES IN THAT DEVELOPMENT AND OTHER DEVELOPMENTS.
SOME WILL BE, YOU KNOW, WRAPPING THE BUILDING AROUND THE PARKING LOT.
SOME WILL HAVE PARKING UNDERNEATH, SOME WON'T HAVE ANY PARKING UNDERNEATH.
SO USING THAT TERM STACK PODIUM, WE COULD CERTAINLY DO SO.
BUT, UM, IS THERE AN, THERE WERE SOME OTHER SUGGESTIONS, UM, OF WHAT THAT DEVELOPMENT PATTERN COULD BE USED.
TIGHT CLUSTER SEEMED TO BE ONE THAT HAD AN IMAGE OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT, UM, MULTI USES, MULTIFAMILY, ALL KIND OF CLUSTERED TOGETHER.
HOWEVER, I, I'M, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S MARRIED TO THAT, BUT THAT SEEMED LIKE A BETTER TERM THAN, THAN, UM, STACKED PODIUM.
THOUGHTS? BETTER THAN STACK PODIUM? BETTER THAN STACK.
EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THIS ONE? YEP.
IT IS
UH, SHOULD 2.4 0.2 BE MODIFIED TO INCLUDE THAT PARKING STRIPS, THE ONES THAT ARE LIKE BETWEEN THE STREET AND THE SIDEWALK SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR PARKING IN THE TIGHT WEAVE.
UM, IN, IN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
UM, MOST TIME PEOPLE DON'T PARK THERE, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN INSTANCES, IT'S NOT REALLY A HISTORIC THING, IT'S REALLY MORE OF A PARKING ENFORCEMENT THING.
BUT SHOULD WE PUT IN THERE THAT THE PURPOSE OF HAVING THIS STRIP IS NOT FOR PARKING, BUT IT IS FOR, FOR GREEN SPACE FOR TREES AND FLOWERS.
WHERE, IS THERE ONE WIDE ENOUGH TO PARK ON THAT? YEAH, I THERE UP ON THE CURB OR HANGING OUT IN, UP ON THE SIDEWALK, HANGING OUT PEOPLE, PEOPLE PARK WITH LIKE TWO, TWO WHEELS ON THE, THE CURB, BUT TWO, SO LIKE ON THE SIDEWALK SIDE OF IT, BUT THERE'S NO DESIGN? NO, IT'S JUST WALK AWAY FROM THIS.
YOU PRETTY COOL JUST WALKING AWAY? YEAH.
THIS IS, THIS IS THE IMAGE THAT WAS PROVIDED TO SOME PEOPLE.
THERE'S, THERE'S ONE HOUSE ON AVENUE ON, UM, NATIONAL AVENUE, BUT THEY ACTUALLY BRICKED, BRICKED IN A PARKING STRIP OR WHATEVER YOU WANT CALL IT.
SO THAT SHOULDN'T, THAT I DON'T THINK SHOULD BE ALLOWED.
BUT THAT'S MORE, THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE WRONG.
[02:20:01]
THAT'S MORE OF A ZONING ISSUE.SHOULD BE MORE OF A ZONING ISSUE.
BUT THIS LIKE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
NO, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE BRICK BRICKING US BRICK OVER THE TOP OF THAT BRICKING BRICK IS US.
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO, IF YOU LOOK IN THE STANDARDS BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE STREET, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE PLANTING AREAS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE GRASS AND TREES.
DOES THAT DOESN'T EVEN BELONG TO THE HOMEOWNER.
YEAH, BECAUSE THAT BELONGS TO THE CITY OF IT BETWEEN THE SIDE.
IF YOU RECALL ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, WE APPROVED PAVERS IN THAT AREA OVER ON UH, JOHNSON STREET.
UM, THAT, BUT THERE WERE ALREADY PAVERS THERE.
YEAH, THERE WERE PAVERS ON A PAVERS ON A PORTION OF IT'S, IT'S UNFORTUNATE WE'RE NOT CALLING IT PARKING.
THAT'S NOT, WE'RE NOT CALLING IT PARKING.
THAT'S NOT, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THESE CASES RIGHT HERE, THERE ARE AREAS IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREA THAT DO NOT HAVE THE GRANITE CURBING.
AND I THINK RIVERSIDE HAS THE SAME, THERE'S SOME AREAS THAT DON'T HAVE CURBS FOR THE GRASS SIDE.
THE, WHY ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT THIS? JUST SOMEONE BROUGHT IT UP.
ALL OF THESE DISCUSSIONS ARE SOLELY BASED ON COMMENTS WE RECEIVED ON OUR DRAFT.
SO ANYBODY WANT TO COMMENT ON THIS? NOPE.
UH, NEXT ONE HAS TO DO WITH BENCHES AND LIGHTING IN THE, IN IN RESIDENTIAL PORTION.
SHOULD A NEW STANDARD BE DEVELOPED THAT STATES THAT STREET FURNITURE AND OR LIGHTING SHOULD BE COMPATIBLE AND DESIGN MATERIAL COLOR AND SCALE WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE BLOCK OR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IN THE TIGHT WEAVE DEVELOPMENT? THERE'S, THERE'S A PUSH TO GET MORE BENCHES IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREA.
SHOULD THERE BE SOME OVERSIGHT BY THIS BODY OVER THE BENCHES? THE, AND THE LIGHTING IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREA? IF IT'S ON LIKE, ON THE STREET, THE SAME AREA THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
IF WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT FURNITURE, WE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE GARBAGE RECEPTACLES TOO.
AND THEN THE BILL ELECTRIC BOXES THEY PUT ON THERE.
I MEAN IT'S, I DON'T THINK ELECTRIC BOXES, BUT IT WOULD BE MORE THE OPTIONAL THINGS.
MORE THE, UH, THE, THE BENCHES AND TRASH RECEPTACLES.
I DON'T KNOW WHY HPC WOULD BE INVOLVED IN THAT BECAUSE WE DO EVERYTHING HISTORIC.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT IT'S THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.
WELL, BUT I MEAN, THE THING IS THAT THOSE ARE TEMPORARY AND WE'VE ALWAYS BACKED AWAY FROM THINGS THAT ARE TEMPORARY.
AND WHEN DID THE CITY COME TO US FIRST AND SAY WE HAVE SD WOULD COME APPROVE THESE? LEMME FOR EXAMPLE, IF, IF, UH, IF SOMEONE, UM, WANTED TO PUT A BENCH ON THE CORNER STREET, IS IT OKAY IF THE CITY GIVES THEM THE OKAY FOR WHAT KIND OF A BENCH TO PUT ON THERE? OR DO YOU WANT SOMETHING THAT IS IN NATURE AND CHARACTER WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT? I DON'T EVEN WANT TO GET, I THINK I DON'T, IF WE'RE NOT DOING THAT WITH LIKE, NEW ART SLOPE AND THINGS THAT ARE GOING UP, LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT THE END OF CRAVEN, WHY WOULD WE DO IT ABOUT A BENCH? BECAUSE IT'S IN A RESIDENTIAL HISTORIC AREA.
OH, THAT'S AREA WE GONNA HAVE TO DO.
AND THERE'S RESIDENTS THAT LIVE ACROSS THE STREET IN THE APARTMENTS ABOVE IT.
SO I JUST THINK IT'S MAYBE AT A MINIMUM WE WOULD PUT SOMETHING ABOUT WOOD, BUT OTHER THAN THAT DESIGN, ARE WE GONNA HAVE A SET OF STANDARDS FOR THIS ONE TOO? I, I'M BRINGING UP, BECAUSE IT WAS BROUGHT OUT DEVIL'S ADVOCATING WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION MAYBE SIGN OFF ON HOW THEY WANT THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION BENCH TO LOOK.
BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THAT, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY.
THEY'RE NOT HAVE ANY AUTHORITY.
AND, AND TO BE CLEAR, WE'RE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT ON CITY PROPERTY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FROM THE BACK OF THE CURB TO THE STREET.
NOT NECESSARILY, BUT YES, GENERALLY MORE THAN LIKELY.
I MEAN, I, I I THINK IT COULD BE ON PEOPLE'S PROPERTY ON, JUST TO BE CLEAR, THAT DOESN'T, THE SIDEWALK, THAT DOESN'T, UM, ABSOLVE YOU OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BECAUSE EVEN THE CITY IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT, UH, APPLICATIONS TO US FOR APPROVAL FOR ANY CHANGES.
THE CROSSWALKS, THEN WE, THEN WE OBJECT THAT THEY'RE DOING TODAY AT THAT POINT.
BUT IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO PUT A BENCH IN THEIR YARD, DO WE REALLY WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN THAT? YEAH, BUT THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING.
IF IT, IF IT'S ON THE, IF IT'S ON THE CITY PROPERTY SIDE, THAT'S ONE THING.
IF SOMEONE DECIDES TO PUT IT IN THEIR YARD NEAR THE BACKSIDE OF THE SIDEWALK, I'M PHYSICALLY ON THEIR PROPERTY.
THAT'S A DIFFERENT THING THAT I, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A SITUATION WHERE THAT'S IN OUR PURVIEW.
IF IT'S ON THE CITY SIDE A LITTLE MORE ON THEIR, ON THEIR SIDE OF THINGS, THEY OBVIOUSLY KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD BE DEALING WITH US AS THEY NEED TO.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD DO, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD MESS WITH ANY SIDE.
WELL YOU MIGHT END UP JUST WAITING TILL THE DAY WHEN YOU FIND SOMETHING WAS ATROCIOUS AND THEN YOU CAN ADD IT IN SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.
[02:25:01]
I I I'VE ALREADY SEEN THAT SOME OF THE DESIGNS THAT PEOPLE ARE SUGGESTING, UM, SOME ARE BEARS.SOME WILL LOVE IT, SOME WILL HATE IT.
THEN IT COUNTS, THEN IT COUNTS WHEN IT BECOMES ART SCULPTURE.
SHOULD THERE BE ANY TEXT ADDED TO THE DRAFT NOTING THAT THERE ARE FLOOD PLAIN DESIGN REGULATIONS? WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE LIGHTING THOUGH.
OH, I'M, I'M, I'M HEARING NO LIGHTING.
IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING? CORRECT.
WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT LIGHTING.
WE WOULD'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT ATROCIOUS STUFF THEY PUT IN THE PALACE
SHOULD THERE BE FLOODPLAIN DESIGN NOTE THAT THERE ARE FLOODPLAIN DESIGN REGULATIONS THAT NEED TO BE ADHERED TO.
JUST A STATEMENT SAYING THAT IF YOU'RE IN THE FLOOD DISTRICT, THAT YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY IT? OR IS THAT JUST SOMETHING THAT'S JUST OBVIOUS AND AND WE DON'T NEED TO INCLUDE IT? WELL THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IT'S SIMPLE TO ADD AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE MUCH.
I I WOULD LIKE JUST A STATEMENT INCLUDED FOR OVERKILL FIND, AND WHILE WE'RE ON IT, I THINK WE SHOULD REVISE THE ONE WE HAVE SLIGHTLY.
IT'S IN FOUNDATIONS, UM, ON THE SCREEN, UH, WHEN ELEVATING A STRUCTURE IN FLOOD ZONES.
UM, WE DON'T SAY CONSTRUCTING A NEW STRUCTURE.
SO I'VE HAD TO BASICALLY SAY, YEAH, WELL THAT COUNTS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION TOO.
SO WE, WE COULD INCLUDE, SO WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD MODIFY THAT.
WHAT, WHAT WOULD YOU, WHAT WERE YOU GONNA CHANGE IT TO SEE? JUST THIS IS, THIS IS ON THE SCREEN.
THIS TALKS ABOUT A STRUCTURE, AN EXISTING STRUCTURE ELEVATING IT.
AND I THINK HE WANTS TO HAVE SOMEWHERE THAT WHEN YOU BUILD A NEW STRUCTURE, IT APPLIES TO THAT APPLIES TO THAT WHOLE IDEA OF TWO FEET ABOVE.
I JUST, SO THAT WOULD BE MORE LIKE AN INFILL, TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE IT AS AN INCLUSIVE STATEMENT THAT COULD COVER, COVER NEW OR, OR EXISTING.
THAT IS, THAT'S BEING MODIFIED, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I'M EXACTLY, THAT'S I WAS ASKING IF YOU HAD PROPOSED VERBIAGE FOR THAT.
THERE WAS SOME, A CONSISTENCY ONE SOMETIMES WE CALL THEM WORKS AS MAJOR WORK AND SOMETIMES WE CALL IT WORK AS IN MAJOR WORK.
I DON'T CARE WHAT IT IS, BUT LET'S BE CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT.
DO YOU GUYS WANT TO HAVE MAJOR WORKS? MINOR WORKS MAJOR OR MINOR WORK WORKS? IT WORKS.
DOESN'T IT DEPEND ON IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN ONE OR NOT? I DON'T, IT'S USED INTERCHANGEABLY.
SO IT OUGHT TO BE BASED ON GRAMMATICAL PLURALS.
IT'S THEIR DEFINITION FOR WORK IN THE HEAD.
SO I, I LIKE AND LIST A SERIES OF WORKS.
SO I I LET'S DO THIS, UH, MULTIPLE WORK.
THERE PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE SOME, SOME THOUGHT ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF WHERE WORK OR WORKS IS USED.
WE'LL WHICH ONE, WHICH ONE DO YOU LIKE? IT'S NICE TO JUST SEE HOW IT'S GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT.
I'M USING IT AS A VE NOW I THINK I I I DID A QUICK CHECK.
OH REALLY? DIFFERENT PLACES USE DIFFERENT ONE.
ALRIGHT, SO I GOTTA NOTE HERE THAT IT WILL BE REVIEWED AND MADE CONSISTENT.
IS THIS GRAMMAR? YEAH, WE'RE DOING GRAMMAR NOW.
HOW ARE WE DOING PRINCIPLES? OKAY, THE NEXT ONE CAME UP.
HAVE TO DO ANOTHER DEFINITION.
SHOULD THE TERMS NORMAL AND EXACTLY.
HAVE A CLEARER DEFINITION IN THE TEXT OF THE DRAFT STANDARDS.
LIKE THE WORD NORMAL SUBJECTIVE.
YEAH, WE, WE USE EXACT AND REPLACEMENT AND CONTENT.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE IT IS NORMAL.
AND THE REASON WE DID THAT IS BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE WERE SAYING, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF SORT OF THE SAME.
SO, YOU KNOW, TO ME IN MY MIND THAT'S YOU KNOWS REPLACEMENT ACCOUNT.
DO YOU HAVE TOWARDS THE DOOR? DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WITH PEOPLE USE? EXACTLY.
IF YOU WANT IT TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME, THEN YOU SAY EXACTLY THE SAME.
AND IF YOU WANT TO ALLOW SOME WIGGLE ROOM, YOU UM,
[02:30:01]
DEFINE HOW MUCH WIGGLE ROOM THE OTHER, THE OTHER OPTION IS, SO WHAT, WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING BECAUSE THE REPLACEMENT AND KIND COMES UP THREE TIMES A WEEK.UM, ESPECIALLY WITH MECHANICAL UNITS, UM, IF IT'S WITHIN THREE TO 7, 12, 12 INCHES IS TOO MUCH.
AND YOU KNOW, SO IT'S KIND, YOU END UP WITH, WELL LIKE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BOARDS, UH, TIME AND GROOVE BOARDS ON A PORCH, IT COULD BE RIK BUT IF IT'S A A QUARTER INCH DIFFERENT BECAUSE THE, THE OLDER BOARDS ARE A TRUE THREE AND A HALF NEW ONES ARE THREE AND A QUARTER.
AND UH, DIDN'T WE REMOVE MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT FROM WELL REPLACEMENT? YEAH, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS WHEN YOU SAY EXACTLY EXACT.
BUT IF YOU DON'T SAY EXACTLY HOW MUCH WE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SPACING BETWEEN PICKETS, WE SAY ABOUT THREE INCHES.
SO FOR THE LONGEST TIME IT HAD TO BE THREE INCHES AND THEN PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WELL WHAT ABOUT THREE AND FIVE EIGHTS? NO, NO.
I THINK WHERE IT BECOMES DIFFICULT IS MATCHING THAT TO VISUALLY EMULATE.
THAT'S GONNA BE EVEN MORE SO IS THE SID VISUALLY EMULATING IT OR IS IT EXACTLY THE SAME? WELL I THINK RIK IS, IS IS SAID THAT THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXACT RIGHT.
BUT RI VISUALLY EMULATE IS NOT IN PRESERVATION.
BRIEF 16 GETS A LITTLE LESS INTO THE BUT THAT'S BUT A VISUAL INMATE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AN RIK.
NO, BUT COULD WE MARK THIS THE SAME AS THE ABOVE? UM, WE'LL REVIEW IT AND TRY TO MAKE IT CONSISTENT.
IS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME THOUGHT GOING INTO HOW WE DEFINE EXACTLY.
BECAUSE IF YOU'RE A NEIGHBOR AND SOMEBODY DOESN'T DO SOMETHING EXACT AND WE CANNOT PROVIDE IT COMES UP MORE THAN YOU THINK AND IT IS VERY TIME CONSUMING ON THAT.
SO YOU WANT US TO EXACTLY DEFINE IT.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT? AND IT MAY HAVE TO HAVE A PERCENTAGE ON IT OR SOMETHING, BUT BETTER THAN WE HAVE NOW WOULD BE VERY ONE STANDARD DEVIATION.
WHERE, WHERE DOES NORMAL COME IN? I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THAT.
IS IS THERE SOMETHING IN THERE? AND THEY TALKED ABOUT ME
I I THINK ON BOTH THOSE WORDS IT'D BE GOOD TO KNOW HOW MANY TIMES THEY APPEAR.
IT'S PROBABLY JUST, JUST THAT.
IS IT EVEN RELEVANT TO EVEN TALK ABOUT THIS? ALRIGHT.
WE'RE GONNA SKIP THE TERM AND NOT INCONGRUOUS.
WE WE'VE HAD A DISCUSSION ON THAT.
WE'RE GONNA KEEP THAT, UM, LIGHTING.
I THINK JUST FOR THE BENEFIT THOUGH OF PEOPLE WATCHING, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT TERM.
IF YOU JUST WANNA MAKE A COMMENT.
IT'S NOT THAT WE DIDN'T HEAR THE COMMENT.
IT'S NOT THAT WE LIKE THE TERM EITHER, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE STATE HAS SETTLED US WITH THAT I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE HAVE FLEXIBILITY TO CHANGE.
NO, IT IT, IT'S CITED IN THE, IN THE STATE STATUTES A STATE IT'S CITED IN A LOT OF STATE DOCUMENTS.
IT SOUNDS LIKE A NEGATIVE WHEN YOU HEAR IT DOES, IT'S NOT, IT DOES.
AND, AND, AND I THINK ALL OF US, WHEN WE FIRST HEARD IT SAID THIS JUST SOUNDS NOT RIGHT.
WELL AND THE WAY THAT IT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME IS IN A CRIMINAL TRIAL YEAH.
THE JURY DOES NOT DECLARE SOMEONE INNOCENT.
GUILTY NOT GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY.
SO NOT GUILTY DOESN'T MEAN THEY DIDN'T DO IT.
IT MEANS THE EVIDENCE WASN'T THERE TO DECLARE GUILTY.
THAT'S A GOOD WAY OF PUTTING IT.
WE'RE WE'RE DOING THE SAME THING HERE IS THAT WE KNOW THAT WE GET SOME THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T AGREE WITH THE DESIGN, WE DON'T AGREE WITH WHAT THE PERSON HAS DONE, BUT IT DOESN'T VIOLATE THE GUIDELINES.
WE CAN'T SAY, YES, THIS IS, THIS IS, THIS IS GREAT WE OR THIS IS GOOD.
THAT'S PROBABLY SAY THE BEST EXPLANATION.
AND THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE, THERE WAS A COMMENT SAYING THAT THE TERM INCONGRUENCE US IS NOT THE CORRECT FORM.
BUT I THINK THAT IT'S THE STANDARD THAT WE EVERYBODY USES.
AND I THINK, AND FOR CSEC WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN AND GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE STATE STATUTE.
ALRIGHT, MOVING ON TO LIGHTING.
WE HAVE A NUMBER OF STANDARDS FOR LIGHTING THAT ARE SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THE DOCUMENT.
UM, AND SOME OF 'EM ARE ON UTILITY.
I MEAN THEY'RE, THEY'RE KIND OF OTHER PLACES.
IS IT WORTH TRYING TO GRAB EVERYTHING WITH LIGHTING, PUT IT IN
[02:35:01]
A, IN A SEPARATE SECTION AND HAVE EVERYTHING DEALING WITH LIGHTING IN A SEPARATE SECTION? THANKS.WHEN WE HAVE THIS FORMATTED AND IT IS INTERACTIVE AND EVERYTHING IS LINKED, I THINK WE CAN CLEAN UP THAT ISSUE VERY SIMPLY.
IT MAY NOT BE SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO WITH TECH CHANGES RIGHT NOW.
BUT I, BUT THAT DOES COME IN TO PLAY A LOT PEOPLE LOOKING FOR LIGHTING AND DEPENDING ON WHAT ASPECT OF IT, IT'S IN DIFFERENT SECTIONS.
SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE CAN LINK IT ELECTRONICALLY? YES, SIR.
AND, AND SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE CAN DO WHEN, WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO GO THROUGH THIS IS WE WILL DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH ON WHERE LIGHTING POPS UP IN DIFFERENT PLACES.
I MEAN WE, WE RAN, THAT WAS ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE TRIED TO DO IN 14, 15, 16 IS I REMEMBER UH, ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS SAID WE'VE GOT WOOD IN, YOU KNOW, DOZENS OF PLACES IN THE GUIDELINES.
WOOD IS WOOD IS WOOD, PUT IT IN ONE PLACE.
SO WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO CLEAN THIS UP A LITTLE BIT.
THIS MAY TAKE SOME DISCUSSION.
SO WE ALL RECOGNIZE THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION AND, AND STANDARDS AND THINGS.
PRINCIPLES SHOULD IT, THERE ARE TWO POSSIBILITIES FOR SOME REORGANIZATION.
ONE IS CHAPTER FIVE MATERIALS IN CHAPTER SIX PRESERVATION.
UM, THEY BOTH TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT KIND OF MATERIALS, METAL, WOOD, MASONRY PAINT.
UM, ONE, THE ONE SECTION'S ONLY LIKE TWO PAGES.
THE QUESTION IS, SHOULD FIVE AND SIX BE COMBINED TOGETHER? SO EVERYTHING TALKING ABOUT WOOD IS IN ONE SPOT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHETHER THAT'S EXISTING WOOD OR NEW WOOD TO GO ON.
OR DO WE TRY TO SEPARATE IT? SO THAT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT ONE IS EXISTING AND ONE IS FOR NEW STRUCTURES.
WELL, IF WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP IT SIMPLE AND ONE COMPLAINT WE GET IS HOW MUCH STUFF THEY HAVE TO READ.
IF YOU HAVE BOUGHT THE HOUSE, YOU'RE LIVING IN THE HOUSE AND YOU JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW TO MAINTAIN IT.
MY FEELING IS GO TO CHAPTER SIX IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH MODIFICATIONS, INFILL, ALL THAT.
WE NEED TO COVER THE WATERFRONT.
SO, SO ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS NEVER REALLY, WE, WE DIDN'T SPEND A WHOLE LOT OF TIME ON IT 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF TIME WHERE WE COULD DO THAT.
THE, UH, THE UH, TABLE THAT I PUT TOGETHER WITH WHAT, UH, COMPONENTS CONTRIBUTING ADDITIONS, INFILLS FOR CONTEMPORARY OR SUBSTITUTE MATERIAL.
UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST KIND OF CRAMMED INTO I THINK IT'S SECTION OR IN CHAPTER FIVE.
AND I MEAN YOUR POINT ABOUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THIS STUFF IN CHAPTER SIX.
I MEAN WE JUST NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO CONSOLIDATE IT ALL TOGETHER.
I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING HERE.
UH, REARRANGE IT A LITTLE BIT AND PUT ALL THE MATERIALLY RELATED STUFF IN THE CHAPTER FIVE.
I STILL THINK WE NEED A SEPARATE CHAPTER RELATED TO PRE PRESERVATION, DEMOLITION, REMOVING STRUCTURES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
PERHAPS WE CAN NOT CALL IT PRESERVATION OR, OR MAYBE MODIFY IT SO THAT SOMEONE WHO HAS AN EXISTING HOUSE WOULD RECOGNIZE OKAY.
I MEAN BEST PRACTICES CAME UP FOR SOMEBODY WANTS TO KEEP IT.
WE'LL WORK ON NOW THE VARIATION TO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF HPCS HAVE GONE WITH AND THAT IS CLEARLY IDENTIFY NEW STRUCTURES VERSUS EXISTING STRUCTURES.
IF YOU, IF YOU ARE ARE HAVING A NEW BUILDING, A NEW INFILL, THERE'S A SET OF STANDARDS.
IF YOU ARE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING WITH AN EXISTING STRUCTURE, THERE'S A SET OF STANDARDS.
NOW I THINK JESSE'S PROBABLY GONNA SAY WHEN WE, WHEN WE CLEAN THIS UP AND PRETTY IT UP, WE CAN ELECTRONICALLY LINK SOME OF THOSE.
UM, WE CAN DO IT THAT WAY TOO.
NOW, UM, WOULD YOU ACTUALLY MAKE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN CONTRIBUTING AND NON-CONTRIBUTING? 'CAUSE THERE'S SOME STANDARDS WHERE ONE SENTENCE GOES ON WITH ITS REQUIREMENTS AND THEN THE NEXT SENTENCE SAYS SUCH AND SUCH FOR CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.
I THINK YOU WOULD, I MEAN THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE.
DOES FIRST SENTENCE ALSO MEAN CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES OR JUST ALL STRUCTURES AND THEN THE SECOND SENTENCE IS ONLY LIMITED TO THAT'S EXACTLY THE ONE UNDER METAL ROOFING.
AND I THINK REALLY, I JUST WAS LOOKING TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY INTEREST
[02:40:01]
IN LOOKING AT TRYING TO REORGANIZE NOW AS, AS TIM JUST SAID, UH, WE CAN JUST TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THESE THINGS AND TRY TO DO SOME BEST, UH, UH, AGGLOMERATION.IS THAT THAT A WORD? CONSOLIDATION FOR SURE.
PUT PUT THINGS THAT SEEM TO BELONG TOGETHER AND, AND WELL, PRACTICALLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS AN INFILL IS ALL ABOUT CON CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS.
AND, BUT THEY'RE TALKING TO, AND NOW WE, NOW WE'VE ADDED IN THE ADDITIONS BEING LIKE THAT.
AND IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE TRIED TO DO, UH, WITH THE, THE UPDATES 10 YEARS AGO, THE, UM, THE EVALUATION FORM COA EVALUATION FORM IS ON WHAT, ONE PAGE WORD DASH 15, 16, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THE, THE GUIDELINES ARE STRUCTURED AROUND THAT.
AND I CALL IT, I CALL IT, YOU KNOW, THE HIERARCHY OF CONSTRUCTION BASED ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.
UH, I THINK, I THINK WHAT I THINK WHAT WE COULD DO IS GO BACK AND LOOK AT SOME OF THE STANDARDS AND MAYBE TWEAK THE WORDING A LITTLE BIT SO IT'S CLEARER.
THIS STANDARD APPLIES TO, YOU KNOW, NEW STUFF VERSUS A CONTRIBUTOR S INSTRUCTION.
YEAH, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE SAYING.
UH, I, I'M, I'M NOT A, I MIGHT BE CONVINCED OTHERWISE, BUT RIGHT NOW I'M NOT A FAN OF TRYING TO, TO SPLIT THESE GUIDELINES OR THESE STANDARDS UP INTO, INTO SEPARATE LITTLE PIECES.
UH, I MEAN I THINK THAT THAT'S GONNA BE MORE CHALLENGE.
I THINK, I THINK THE SAME DILEMMA CAME UP ABOUT COMMERCIAL DOWNTOWN.
BECAUSE REALLY WHEN YOU START THINKING ABOUT EVERYTHING IS REALLY THE SAME, THE SAME MATERIALS, THE SAME ISSUES.
AND THEY JUST HAVE DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS.
AND THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE THINKING WHEN WE PUT TOGETHER, PUT TOGETHER OUR CURRENT GUY.
THERE USED TO BE A COMMERCIAL CHAPTER.
I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT, BUT I, I, I THINK I DID SEND EVERYBODY KIND OF WHAT THE TABLE OF CONTENT LOOKS FOR OTHER HPCS AND A LOT OF 'EM DO HAVE IT ORGANIZED A LITTLE BIT MORE NEW STRUCTURES VERSUS EXISTING STRUCTURES.
AND I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY EASY TO READ, EASIER TO READ.
BUT I THINK, I THINK THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE TRUE FOR THE ENTIRE YEAH.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A BIT OF, CONSIDERING WE'VE GOT SOME TIME CONSTRAINTS HERE, I'M NOT SURE WE COULD, WE COULD GET THERE IN A TIMELY FASHION.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING I'M, I'M BRINGING IT UP AND DON'T, I THINK WE CAN'T DISCOUNT HOW HELPFUL THAT COMPONENTS CHART IS.
OH, I, I THINK THAT'S AWESOME.
WE DID HAVE A COUPLE OTHER THINGS COME IN THAT I WANTED TO, TO, TO THROW IN.
WAIT, WHEN YOU SAID THAT WAS IT, I DID, BUT I, ONE WAS CURBING GRANITE, CURBING GRANITE CURB STONES.
DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A STANDARD THAT, UH, PEOPLE ARE OBLIGATED IN FRONT OF THEIR PROPERTY TO KEEP THE CURB THE CURRENT CONCRETE CURB? THAT'S A CITY THAT SHOULD BE CITY ZONING THAT HAS, THAT HAS ACTUALLY COME UP BEFORE.
AND THE HBC HAS CONSISTENTLY, IS THAT ACTUALLY IN THERE? I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THAT IN ANYWHERE.
IT, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WAS IN THERE ONE TIME.
BUT THE HBC HAS CONSISTENTLY SAID, DON'T TAKE OUT THE GRANT OF CURBING IF IT'S ALREADY THERE.
AND IT'S NOT JUST THE CITY BECAUSE IT'S PRIVATE OWNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR DRIVEWAYS AND, AND APRONS.
SO IS EVERYBODY HAVING A PROBLEM IF WE PUT SOMETHING IN THERE TO, TO MAINTAIN CONCRETE CURBING AND TO MAINTAIN GRANITE? CORRECT.
GRANT, I'M SORRY, CONCRETE, NOT CONCRETE'S.
GRANITE CURB HAS COME OUT FOR DRIVEWAYS AND STUFF.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY ARE LIT, BUT HOW ABOUT THE GRANITE STEPS FOR THE GARAGE? THERE ARE SOME, THERE ARE SOME.
WE'VE, UM, WE'VE PAIRED DOWN THE TREES.
DO WE STILL WANT TO BE, HAVE ANY JURISDICTION AND MATURE TREES, STREET TREES OR ALL TREES? ALL TREES ON PROPERTY.
WELL, WHAT HAPPENS, AND I'VE SEEN THIS OVER AND OVER, IS WE CAN PUT ANYTHING WE WANT IN THE GUIDELINES ABOUT TREES.
BUT IF SOMEONE IN THEIR BACKYARD, IF THEY WANT TO CUT DOWN A TREE, THEY'RE GONNA CUT IT DOWN.
REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S HPC STANDARDS, WHETHER IT'S TREE REMOVAL BY THE CITY OR WHATEVER.
DO YOU, DO YOU WANT TO, WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE ARE
[02:45:01]
DOING, BECAUSE WE COULD GO ON ALL DAY ABOUT ENFORCEMENT AND EVERYTHING ELSE, BUT DO YOU WANT THE MATURE TREES NOT TO HAVE ANY REGULATIONS FOR TAKING THEM DOWN BECAUSE THE, THE CITY DOES NOT.NOT FOR VC, NOT CITYWIDE, NOT CITYWIDE DISTRICT.
NOW SOME NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE THAT IN LIKE HOAS AND THINGS.
NO, BUT LIKE, IF IT WASN'T IN OUR STANDARDS, NO, BUT OUR, OUR LAND USE ORDINANCE SAYS THAT, UM, REMOVAL OF TREES AND ANY HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT INCLUDES THE NATIONAL REGISTER, HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAT AREN'T IN THE LOCAL HISTORIC G TO GREN, REED PARK, DRY BOROUGH PLUS YOU GUYS,
SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, IF IT'S ALREADY IN THE LAND USE, DO WE NEED IT IN OUR STANDARDS? WELL, GO AHEAD.
I THINK IT'S OKAY JUST STAYING IN THE LAND USE PART.
WELL, SHOULD WE PUT A LINE IN OUR STANDARDS THAT SAY, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK THAT TREES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE COVERED BY THE NEW LAND.
I, YEAH, I WOULD LIKE, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IN THE SUSPENDERS IN THE NARRATIVE, AND I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING IT, PUTTING WHAT YOU JUST SAID IN THE NARRATIVE.
PUT SOMETHING IN THE NARRATIVE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE TO READ IN THE TEXT TREES.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE IT IN THERE, BUT SURE.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THOUGH, THAT THE ADVANTAGE WE HAVE IN THE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS IS IN ADDITION TO THAT REQUIREMENT TO AT LEAST SUBMIT THE PERMIT, UM, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, BECAUSE WE HAVE IT IN THE STANDARDS.
ONE, PEOPLE HAVE TO GET AN ARBORIST, UH, REPORT IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY REMOVING IT.
NOW THIS, THE NEW DRAFT, THE DRAFT SAYS BE AN ISSUE ITSELF.
BUT SECONDLY IS WE CAN ALSO REQUIRE THAT IT BE REPLACED WITH A SIMILARLY SIZED TREE, WHICH THEN CONTINUES THE CHAR THE TREE CHARACTER, THESE MATURE TREE CHARACTER IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
WHAT A TREE WAS PUT IN THE WRONG PLACE.
WHAT, WHAT ABOUT TREE WAS, UH, PUT IN A WRONG? YEAH, NO, WE DON'T SAY IT HAS TO BE IN THE EXACT SAME LOCATION WE SAY NEAR, NEAR THE PREVIOUS ONE.
SO IF IT WAS REMOVED OUTTA THE REAR YARD, I I SAY THE REAR YARD ANYWHERE WHERE IT MAKES SENSE AND I ASK THE ARBORIST, ASK THE OWNERS TO ASK THE ARBORIST WHERE IS THE BEST PLACE FOR THAT KIND OF TREE.
THE ARBORIST HAS NOW COME, WE HAVE ONE BASICALLY THAT ARBORIST THAT DOES ALL OF 'EM.
AND UH, HE HAS COME AROUND TO, UM, FIGURING OUT WHICH TREES WORK ON VERY NARROW LOTS.
THERE'S THIS, UH, SLENDER KIND OF TREE THAT IS VERY TALL BUT SLENDER AND IT'S IN SMALL SPACES.
AND HE, UM, SO HE IS ALSO ADVISING THEM, UM, AS TO WHAT TO PLANT.
YOU DON'T GET PEOPLE PLANTING DOGWOOD TREES ALL OVER THE CITY, ALL OVER YOUR HISTORIC DISTRICT.
I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU GET? YOU'RE GONNA GET NOTHING, NOTHING BIG.
EVERYONE WANTS TO PUT IN SMALL MM-HMM
THE, THE, BUT THE, THE ISSUE THAT I HAVE SEEN WITH, AND YOU'LL LOSE THAT WITH RE WITH, OKAY, YOU TAKE OUT A MATURE TREE, YOU GOTTA PUT IN, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT IN A SIMILAR LOCATION.
FROM MY EXPERIENCE, A A MAJORITY OF THESE TREE REMOVALS REALLY COME DOWN TO WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAVE THE TREE OR THE STRUCTURE.
YOU WERE ALLOWED TO REMOVE IT THEN.
BUT, AND THE WHOLE THING WITH THE ARBORIST, THE, THE ISSUE THAT I THINK WE RAN INTO WITH THAT IS, YOU KNOW, THE ARBORIST NOW IS $200 JUST TO COME OUT AND LOOK AT A TREE.
IF THAT'S CHEAP, THAT'S CHEAP.
AND I THINK IN, I THINK IN A LOT OF THESE CASES IN FRONT OF US ABOUT TREE REMOVAL, WE COULD HAVE MADE THE DECISION.
I MEAN, WE SHOULDN'T REQUIRE, OKAY, YEAH.
THIS TREE'S, UH, IN, IN DANGER OF FALLING ON THE STRUCTURE, YOU KNOW, IT'S OBVIOUSLY WEAK, BUT YOU GOTTA GO AND PAY $200 TO GET AN ARBORIST TO TELL US THE SAME THING OR SAY IT'S DEAD WHEN YOU'RE WELL, WHEN IT DEAD, WE DON'T REQUIRE THE ARBORIST TO DO THAT.
THEY SEND US A PICTURE AND IT'S THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER AND THERE'S NO LEAVES ON IT.
SO WE LET THEM TAKE THAT OUT WITHOUT THE ARBORIST REPORT.
BUT AFTER THAT, OTHER THAN THAT, PEOPLE SAY, OH, IT'S DISEASE.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE THE EXPERTISE UNLESS YOU GUYS WANT TO GO DO THAT.
WELL, BUT I MEAN, I I STILL SAY WE DO NOT HAVE THE EXPERTISE TO DO THAT.
AND, AND OFTENTIMES I DO FIND, YES, IT'S SPLIT OR WHATEVER WHITENING HIT
[02:50:01]
IT, YOU KNOW.BUT, UM, THE MAIN THING IS WE WANT TO GET A NEW TREE BACK THERE THAT WILL DO WE EVEN VET THE ARBORIST TO, SHOULD SAY THEY'RE TRULY AN ARBORIST OR I MEAN WHAT HAVE YOU NO, THEY'RE CERTIFIED INTERNATIONAL CERTIFIED.
SO YOU HAVE, BUT YOU'RE, SO YOU BASICALLY VETTED 'EM TO SAY, WE HAVE ACTUALLY DENIED A REPORT FROM A LANDSCAPER THAT PRETENDED TO BE AN ARBORIST.
THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN IS TOO SPECIFIC.
IT SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE AN ARBORIST.
THIS IS IN MULTIPLE PLACES IN CITY CODES AND IT NEEDS TO PROBABLY JUST BE IN ONE PLACE.
IS IS MY SUGGESTION, IF YOU ALL WISH TO RETAIN OR INTRODUCE SOMETHING WHERE SOMEBODY CAN BRING YOU ALL A PICTURE OF TREES.
I DON'T, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WORTH CLOGGING THIS BOARD UP WITH.
IS CLOGGING BATTERY WITH MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT TREES? NO.
IN FACT, IT'S HELPING BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE TO GO OUT AND VERIFY THIS.
THE ARBORIST HAS DONE IT FOR ME.
MANY TIMES WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN PEOPLE THEY HAVE TO GO GET THIS.
YOU CAN TELL THE TREE'S PROBABLY DEAD AND WE PUT THEM THROUGH THIS EXPENSE AND IT, IT CAN SEEM LIKE GOVERNMENT OVERREACH AT TIMES.
NOT TO DOWNPLAY THAT WE LOVE OUR TREES AND THEY CONTRIBUTE TO THE CHARACTER OF OUR COMMUNITY.
BUT THERE'S GOTTA BE A BETTER WAY THAN WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING.
SO WHAT IS A BETTER WAY IF SOMEBODY CUTS DOWN THE TREE? I'M ASKING YOU ALL IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHAT DOES THE CITY DO? IF YOU FIND OUT SOMEBODY CUT THE TREE DOWN, NOTHING.
AND THERE IS THIS YES, SO I MEAN, I, I MAKE 'EM, IF POSSIBLE, I MAKE 'EM, UH, SUBMIT AN APPLICATION AND THEY PAY DOUBLE, DOUBLE FEE FOR IT.
AND THAT'S EVEN, EVEN IN DIG AND READ.
BUT THEN I ALSO HAVE 'EM, UH, UH, I WOULD AND, AND NOT IN DIG DIGEN REED AND NOT IN, IN, UH, BUT I WOULD REQUIRE THEM TO REPLANT SOMETHING THAT WAS SO MEAN.
BUT DOES THE CITY TAKE ANY ACTIVE ROLE IN ENFORCING NO.
WELL, I'VE NOT SEEN ANYONE GET SUED OVER A TREE.
SO, SO HERE'S, HERE'S WHAT'S IN, HERE'S WHAT'S IN THE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU GUYS, NOT THAT HERE'S WHAT'S IN THE DRAFT RIGHT NOW.
IT'S, IT'S, UH, STANDARD 2.4 0.1, PRESERVE, MATURE MECHA, UH, PRESERVE MATURE CANOPY TREES.
THE HPC MAY REQUEST AN EVALUATION BY AN ARBORIST FOR REQUESTABLE REMOVAL OF MATURE CANOPY TREE WHERE FEASIBLE REPLACE REMOVE TREES WITH A SIMILAR CANOPY TREE.
LOCATE THE CANOPY TREES TO DEFINE THE STREET EDGE.
I THINK THE MAY IS GOOD 'CAUSE THAT GIVES YOU WHAT, YOU KNOW, WIGGLE ROOM.
LIKE YOU MAY CONSULT AN ARBOR.
YOU, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO CONSULT.
SAY YOU MAY, MAY PLANT, UM, WITH THE WORD YOU'RE USING MATURE CANOPY TREES OR SIMULATOR TO WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE.
MAYBE YOU THOUGHT THE CANOPY TREE IS TOO BIG FOR THE AREA YOU WANNA PLAN ON SWALLOW.
WELL, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY THIS HAS BEEN REWARDED TO PROVIDE US WITH SOME FLEXIBILITY.
'CAUSE REMEMBER YOU GOTTA THINK OF THE STANDARDS NOT AS, NOT AS, NOT AS A NECESSARILY A BUILDING CODE, BUT THIS IS THE OUTCOME THAT WE'RE AFTER.
AND WE HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY IN HOW WE GET THE OUTCOME.
SO WHAT, WHAT TIM JUST READ, WHICH IS IN THE DRAFT.
IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? WE NEED TO MODIFY.
LAST THING THAT I DO HAVE AS A NOTE WAS SHEDS.
CAN ARE, ARE THEY ALLOWABLE TO HAUL IN A PRE-CONSTRUCTED METAL? I MEAN THERE'S SOME THAT ARE LIKE SUPER, SUPER CHEAP AND THEN THERE'S SOME REALLY HIGH END ONES THAT WOULD LOOK SO, I MEAN IT'S WHAT, WHAT ARE WE GONNA HAVE TO, I MEAN, ARE THEY WOOD? ARE THEY PARTY BOARD? ARE THEY, YOU KNOW, PLASTIC? THEY HAVE PLASTIC ONES NOW.
WELL, SOME ARE PLASTIC AND SOME ARE ALUMINUM AND THEY ALL LOOK LIKE CRAP.
BUT THEY'RE NEW CONSTRUCTION SO IT DOESN'T MATTER.
WELL, I THINK IF ARE THE, IF THEY'RE PRE-CONSTRUCTED, YOU KNOW, YOU GO TO, TO A BIG BOX AND YOU GET A FOUR BY SIX METAL SHED AND YOU DRAG IT HOME.
IS IS THAT SOMETHING? WHAT ABOUT THE COME WITH THE WOOD? I MEAN LIKE, THEY HAVE SOME NICER WINDOWS, DOORS.
WE COULD TELL WE THEY HAVE TO BUILD A FENCE AROUND IT.
THIS IS, THIS HAS COME UP BEFORE AND AS LONG IT'S UNDER 12 FEET.
WELL, AND THE BASIC, YOU KNOW, THE BASIC RULE IS, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF IT'S A PRE-CONSTRUCTED SHED, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STILL ADDING A, A STRUCTURE.
[02:55:01]
NEED TO GO THROUGH SOME.SO IT'S A PRE PREFABRICATED THAT'S MADE ON SITE AND RIGHT HERE.
I MEAN, WHERE DO WE GO WITH THAT? WHEN SOMEBODY WANTS TO BUY ONE OF THOSE TINY HOMES AND PUT IT IN THE BACK AS, AS, AS A NEW STRUCTURE? IT'S PREFABRICATED.
PICK A SHIPPING CONTAINER OR TRAILER.
OUR CON SO ZONING CAN TAKE CARE OF THAT PART.
WE WOULD NOT ALLOW THAT TO COME IN AS A TRAIL.
LIKE THERE'S VERY SPECIFIC ENGINEERING REQUIRED ON THINGS FOR DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS THAT WOULD BE LOOKED AT AS A SECONDARY STRUCTURE AND WOULD NOT BE, WOULD NOT PASS THE ZONING TEST.
I WOULD SAY FOR THIS BOARD, I WOULD WORRY ABOUT THOSE PREFAB SHEDS BECAUSE WE HAVE GOTTEN SOME INTENSE COMMENTS ON TREE HOUSES BEFORE RECENTLY.
THEY DO IMPACT THE AESTHETICS.
BUT I THINK PLOP IN ONE OF THOSE SHEDS DOWN IN A VERY, VERY, UH, TIGHT NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT, IT VISUALLY MESSES WITH THE IMPACT.
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULDN'T OVERLOOK HERE.
SO GO TO NORTH PASTURE STREET.
IT'S KIND OF AT THE CORNER OF DUNN AND NORTH PASTURE.
SOMEONE DROPPED ONE OF THOSE PREFAB SHEDS PRETTY MUCH IN THE SIDE YARD.
IN THE SIDE YARD, RIGHT INSIDE THE HOUSE.
NOW IT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD, HUH?
I MEAN I, WE AGAIN, WE'VE WE'VE ADDRESSED THIS BEFORE AND SOME OF THE PRE SOME OF THE PREFAB SHEDS.
I MEAN THEY'RE, THEY'RE PASSABLE.
THAT, UH, I DON'T THINK IS ACCEPTABLE.
THAT'S NOT, SO THIS IS AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE BECAUSE UM, WE ACTUALLY TOLD 'EM THEY HAD TO TURN IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT EIGHT FOOT AWAY FROM THE BUILDING.
AND THEY STILL HAVE NOT DONE IT.
AND SOME OF THOSE, ONCE THOSE SHEDS LIKE THAT, THEY USE AS TINY HOUSES TOO.
SO BUT FOR SHEDS, ISN'T IT JUST THAT WE NEED TO SEE THE DESIGN? YEAH.
AND WE APPLY OUR DESIGN STANDARDS TO WHATEVER I THINK THAT SAY, FALLS UNDER ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
WHETHER IT'S A PREFAB OR WHETHER IT'S SOME PREFAB THINGS LOOK REALLY FANTASTIC.
I, BUT I THINK YOU ALL SHOULD MAINTAIN THAT CONTROL.
WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD MAINTAIN THE CONTROL ACCESS STRUCTURE THAT HOUSES ACCESSORY STRUCTURE MORE FREQUENTLY.
THEN WE CAN, THEN WE CAN AND THAT'S GOOD.
WELL THERE WAS A COMMENT ABOUT THE FOUR 11.
THERE WAS A SHED BEHIND THE GARAGE OR SOMETHING.
IS THAT, DID YOU SEE THAT? YEAH.
I MEAN IS IT A SHED SHED OR IS IT A IT'S A PREFAB AFA WAS ONE AND I, I WOULD'VE NO PROBLEMS WITH THIS.
THIS WHOLE LITTLE PREFAB SHED THING, UH, TO MAKE IT A MINOR THAT MATT, COULD YOU USE HIS, HIS DISCRETION AND IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT GAVE HIM HEARTBURN, HE BRINGS IT TO US.
LIKE, LIKE WITH OTHER COMPLICATED OR THINGS THAT AREN'T BLACK AND WHITE, BUT YES.
UM, YOU KNOW, ZONING REQUIRES A PERMIT FOR ANY ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
BUILDING PERMIT DOESN'T KICK IN UNTIL IT'S ANY ONE PART OF IT'S OVER 12 FEET.
SO A SHED IS, IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
SO DOES THAT MEAN ALL ACCESSORY STRUCTURES OR MINORS A SHED IS CONSIDERED AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
SO SO WE'RE GONNA SAY A PREFAB IS A MINOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT CALLING IT PREFAB.
WELL, THAT SHED MEANS WOULDN'T BE A MINOR.
IT HAS TO MEAN ACCESSORY STRUCTURES AREN'T GONNA BE MINOR, BUT WELL MAY HAVE TO HAVE A DEFINITION BETWEEN WHAT A SHED IS AND WHAT A GARAGE IS A SHED.
IS ANYTHING LESS IN YOUR WORLD, IN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS DIFFERENT THAN BUILDING CODE AND IN ZONING.
SO WHY, WHY DO WE WANNA MAKE THIS A MINE? I THINK WE WANNA SEE IT.
I WE WANNA SEE WHATEVER IT'S, I THINK IT, I THINK IT ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS ACCESSORY STRUCTURED AND I THINK IT, I THINK THAT'S TRUE.
ARE WE ALL GOOD WITH THAT? YEP.
WERE THERE ANY OTHER TOPICS THAT WE, THAT ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THAT WE DIDN'T GET TO EITHER IN THE SPECIAL MEETING OR TONIGHT FROM THAT LIST OF COMMENTS? ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY OTHER NEW COMMENT OR, OR SUGGESTIONS THEY WANT TO BRING UP BEFORE WE START FINISHING UP THE DRAFT AND, AND HAVE IT AVAILABLE HOPEFULLY FOR REVIEW FOR THE NEXT MEETING? I JUST HAD A QUESTION.
DID, WE'RE GONNA SEND IT TO SICILY TOO.
ALL THE WAY BACK AT THE BEGINNING WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, UH, GARAGES, DETACHED, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, UHHUH
[03:00:01]
WE COME TO A CONSENSUS AS TO WHAT THE, UH, REVISION WOULD BE? NO.OTHER THAN WE NEED TO HAVE THAT OTHER THAN DEFINING WHAT ATTACHED IS.
AND, AND HAVE WE, HAVE WE COME TO A CONSENSUS AS TO WHAT THAT DEFINITION NEEDS TO SAY? NO.
BECAUSE LIKE IN A LOT OF THESE THINGS, THAT'S THE ONLY ONE OUT OF ALL THESE THAT I THINK WE DIDN'T FIGURE THAT OUT AS TO WHAT TIM IS GONNA WRITE.
BECAUSE IN THE NEXT ACTION YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO DO IS VOTE TO APPROVE, ACCEPT, APPROVE THE DRAFT WITH THE ABOVE, WITH THE ABOVE REVISIONS OR THE REVISIONS AS DISCUSSED.
BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT REVISION IS.
WELL I THINK WE WERE OKAY WITH THE ATTACHMENTS.
SO I'M USING THE FANCY NAME TOO.
AND SO BOARD, IT'S REALLY ONLY IF SOMEBODY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE AN UNDER THE HOUSE GARAGE, UM, UH, THAT'S, HMM.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE FIGHTS AT THAT POINT.
'CAUSE PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE ONE OR TWO FEET AWAY FROM ELEVATING THEIR HOUSE TO GET THEIR CAR UNDER THERE.
AND THEY'RE GONNA SAY, BUT YOU WON'T LET ME ELEVATE ABOVE THE TWO FEET ABOVE THE, THE TWO FEET ABOVE.
UM, SO, BUT WE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T PARK A CAR UNDER THERE.
I JUST THINK WE NEED TO CLARIFY BECAUSE WE'VE HAD PEOPLE ASK.
SO I WOULD JUST SAY, BUT IT'S ONLY IN TIGHT WEAVE.
WE NEED TO KEEP REMEMBERING THAT.
BUT YOU'RE OKAY WITH SAYING THAT, I SUPPOSE IF THEY'RE ALLOWED TO GO THAT HIGH IF YOU WANT.
NOW, IS THAT HISTORIC PATTERN, IS THAT A HISTORIC PRECEDENT? I MEAN, THERE ARE SOME HOMES THAT DO HAVE HOUSES, UH, CAR, UH, GARAGES BUILT INTO THEM.
THERE'S ONE ON EAST FRONT STREET.
WELL, I THINK HAVING, THAT'S IT THAT I KNOW OF AND THEY'RE RIGHT ON THE RIVER.
WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT THE WHOLE FLOOD ISSUE, WHICH, YOU KNOW, TO ME THAT'S WHERE WE ALLOW GARAGES BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE FIRST FLOOR ELEVATION SO HIGH.
IT PROVIDES THAT OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOMETHING ELSE.
I I'M, I'D BE HESITANT TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO START BUILDING.
WELL YOU RAISED THE ISSUE TOO, MATT, WHEN THEY'LL DIG OUT IN ORDER TO CREATE THE SPACE.
SO THEN, AND THEN YOU GET INTO PRE DISTURBANCE ELEVATIONS AND WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO BE THERE.
THE REASONING BEHIND IT, I THINK IS SIMPLE IS THAT IT, IT PROMOTES THE HISTORIC CONNECTION BETWEEN THE FIRST FLOOR AND GRAY.
THAT, THAT HAS ALWAYS SORT OF BEEN THERE SINCE MAN WAS BUILDING HUTS LITERALLY ON THE GROUND AND THEY GET HIGHER AND HIGHER.
AND NOW WE'VE GOT THIS FLOOD REQUIREMENT THAT MAKES IT EVEN HIGHER.
BUT WE'RE TRYING TO PUSH THAT DOWN.
WE'RE TRYING TO MEET ALL THE CODES AND ALL THE REGULATIONS AND STILL TRY TO KEEP AS MUCH OF THAT, THAT CONNECTION WITHOUT LOOKING OUT OR BANKS HOUSE.
THAT'S A, ALRIGHT, SO THE, THE ONLY, THE ONLY OTHER THING I SEE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE KEEP HEARING ABOUT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT RESILIENCY AND SUSTAINABILITY.
AND THOSE ARE TWO WORDS THAT YOU ARE GONNA GET KICKED AROUND A LOT WITH PRESERVATION.
AND I'M NOT, I MEAN, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU WANT TO DEFINE SUSTAINABILITY, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE 12 DIFFERENT MEANINGS.
I'M NOT EVEN SURE HOW WE ADDRESS THAT.
WE TRIED TO, TO TRY TO LOOK AT THE, AT THE SPECIFIC CONCERNS AS OPPOSED TO LOOKING AT THE, AT THAT GROUPING.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT OUR, OUR COMMENT LATER, WE TRIED TO PICK THE ONES THAT LIKE THE ROOFS, LIKE YEAH.
THINGS THAT, THAT MAKE UP THOSE WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT THE, THE BIG CONCEPT.
I'VE, I'VE READ A NUMBER OF HPC GUIDELINES STANDARDS AND THOSE SECTIONS ON RESILIENCE AND SUSTAINABILITY REALLY TALK ABOUT CONSIDER YEAH.
AND, AND THAT'S WHAT WE DO IS WE ALWAYS CONSIDER, AND IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, WE WILL HELP YOU CONSIDER A SOLUTION.
UH, THERE'S NO CUT AND DRIED RESILIENCE GIVES YOU X, Y, AND Z.
SO I I'M JUST BRINGING THAT UP BECAUSE IT'S COME UP.
AND I, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD INCORPORATE THAT INTO THE STANDARDS BECAUSE, BECAUSE IT MEANS DIFFERENT DEFINITION.
BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ALSO, THEY'RE, THEY'RE MISCONSTRUING
[03:05:01]
THAT WITH LOW MAINTENANCE.AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WOOD IS GONNA BE THE MOST SUSTAINABLE MATERIAL YOU CAN REALLY GET.
YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN IT, BUT IT REPLACES ITSELF OVER TIME.
YOU KNOW, AND IT'S ALSO LONG LASTING WITH PROPER MAINTENANCE, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
AND NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO HEAR THAT.
BUT WE HAVE TO, THE FLOOD ON RESILIENCY ALSO INCLUDES WEATHER TIGHTNESS AND, AND PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT HEAT LOSS AND COOL LOSS.
AND, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
I, THAT'S BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR BUILDING.
DO YOU GET ANY EFFICIENCY? YEAH.
PROBLEMS. KEITH, ANYTHING ELSE ON THAT ONE? YEAH.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON BEFORE WE FINISH UP THIS MEETING? WE HAVE A COUPLE MORE THINGS TO GO OVER.
[5.A. Reports on recent and upcoming training opportunities – 1. September 10: HiDRA “Evening with Restoration Specialist Wade Rogers” 2. September 25, 1:00 – 5:30: The Art of Historic Preservation Workshop, Chapel Hill Public Library, by the Town of Chapel Hill (HPC?), Preservation Chapel Hill, Orange Chatham Association of Realtors (free, but register) • Preservation practices, resources, community history, how historic properties can evolve 3. October 25-27: Preservation NC Annual Conference, High Point (reserve soon)]
REALLY YOU'RE CHECKING, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH.THERE IS AN EVENING WITH RESTORATION SPECIALIST WADE ROGERS.
I THINK YOU'VE ALL GOT NOTICES.
UM, IS THAT AN RS P THING OR JUST SHOW UP? JUST SHOW UP.
ANYONE'S INVITED, ANYONE WHO WAS LISTENING TO THIS, YOU'RE INVITED.
DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THOSE OTHER QUICK THINGS BEFORE WE, UH, BEFORE WE ADJOURN? MATT? THE TRAINING THINGS OR PEOPLE JUST READ IT? I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS YOUR QUESTION? THERE'S TWO MORE TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES.
DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THEM OR DO PEOPLE CAN JUST READ ABOUT OH OH OH YEAH.
UH, PEOPLE CAN JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
UM, WE ALREADY WENT THROUGH SOME OF THOSE ALREADY.
UM, SINCE HALF THE PEOPLE ARE WALKING OUT THE DOOR, CAN WE HAVE GREG MOTION ADJOURN? ALRIGHT.
ALL THOSE MOTIONS BEEN MADE IN SECOND.
I DON'T YOU THINK WE NEED A MOTION FOR ADJOURN?